The Leadership Habit

Crestcom International

Welcome to the Leadership Habit podcast from the Crestcom Leadership Institute, the show that brings you inspiration and information to help you transform your leadership style. We use our experience developing leaders in over 60 countries worldwide to help you develop the skills and tools you need to reach your leadership potential, join us in our mission to create a better world by developing stronger, more ethical leaders. How can you make leadership a habit today?

Episodes

Mentioned books

Jun 23, 2023 • 46min

The Art of Networking: Tips and Tools for Better Connections with Alyce Blum from Articulated Intelligence

The Art of Networking, with Alyce Blum, CPC, ICF, iPEC In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn DeWall sits down with Alyce Blum, Co-founder of Articulated Intelligence, to talk about the art of networking! After attending numerous networking events as she was advancing her career, Alyce pondered, if networking is so important, how come no one ever taught me how to do it? It’s not taught in school, at home, or at work. That question led her to start a business where she has been teaching people how to make networking less icky! If you are going to invest time in networking, you owe it to yourself to get a good R.O.N. (Return on Networking). Learn how to move beyond exchanging business cards to make real connections. Episode Summary Below Alyce’s company, Articulated Intelligence, helps people learn the language of storytelling to build relationships when networking, pitching, influencing, selling, or communicating with others. They the importance of storytelling in creating deeper, more meaningful relationships. Whether you are job searching, selling, or just want to expand your professional network, learning to make authentic connections is important. They believe that networking and storytelling are languages that can be learned through practice and feedback and that there is no need for hope in networking when certain techniques and tools are applied. In this episode, Alyce Blum and Jenn DeWall discuss the challenges of networking and the value of meaningful connections beyond job titles and elevator pitches. Better Networking Starts with Giving More in Value Than You Take in Payment In a conversation about networking, Alyce Blum shares personal stories about how she has always enjoyed talking and engaging with people. She emphasizes the importance of having a mindset that values giving more in value than what you take in payment and how this can lead to more enjoyable and effective networking. Alyce also suggests that reframing our mindset and understanding that networking is a reciprocal process can help us approach it in a more positive way. She believes that networking doesn’t have to be solely focused on monetary or tangible benefits but rather on bringing value to other people’s lives. Successful Virtual Connection Starts with Setting Quantitative Goals Alyce Blum suggests that it is possible to connect with others successfully in a virtual space. To do so, one needs to set clear goals, which can be qualitative or quantitative, and be more intentional and creative. For qualitative goals, one could set a confidence level scale to monitor how they feel during and after a virtual networking engagement. For quantitative goals, one could aim to meet a certain number of people or share their contact information with a specific number of individuals. It takes more effort to connect with people virtually, and one needs to be intentional in doing so. Better Connections Start with Better Questions Alyce Blum suggests that before attending a networking event, one should set a goal, prepare questions, and research the attendees or the host of the event. She recommends using the first, best, last, or worst prompts to help think of big questions. For example, one can ask, “What’s been the best part of 2023?” to start a conversation which blocks out all the negative aspects of the year and takes the conversation in a positive direction. She also suggests that these prompts can be useful in internal networking within a company or team. Lastly, she advises that one should take the opportunity to relate to the person they are talking to and create a deeper connection. Avoid “Pitch-Slapping“ Alyce Blum and Jenn DeWall discuss the changing landscape of making professional connections and how to make it more effective and less daunting. They suggest reading the room and acknowledging people’s needs, and using big questions to direct conversations. They also suggest being intentional and showing up with a positive attitude and energy. They mention the benefits of the virtual world and how it can be less overwhelming than in-person networking events. They also discuss how to avoid “pitch slapping” and “networking on” people and how to make networking more human and less robotic. The 75% Reconnection Rule for Networking Alyce Blum suggests the “75% reconnection rule” for networking, which means that 75% of the networking goal should be spent reconnecting with people you already know and trust or with events and associations where you already have established connections. The remaining 25% can be spent on meeting new people, like attending a different type of event or volunteering. This rule makes networking more enjoyable and easier and also helps to build trust faster when asking for help or advice. Where to Find More from Alyce Blum Alyce Blum, from Articulated Intelligence, suggests that people can follow her company on LinkedIn or visit their website to access content that provides tips and tools on mastering the art of networking and storytelling. Articulated Intelligence offers services on networking, storytelling, and more, and they are always ready to help anyone who wants to improve their networking skills. Jenn DeWall encourages listeners to share the podcast with anyone who could benefit from it and to visit Crestcom.com to access complimentary resources on leadership development. Show Notes Alyce Blum is a Certified Professional Coach and Co-Founder of Articulated Intelligence. If you enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy the episode featuring her co-founder, Keith Bailey all about storytelling. You can get more information about Alyce, Keith and Articulated Intelligence on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/articulated-intelligence/, or their website: www.articulated-intelligence.com A Message from Crestcom Crestcom is a global organization dedicated to developing effective leaders. Companies all over the world have seen their managers transformed into leaders through our award-winning and accredited leadership development programs. Our signature BPM program provides interactive management training with a results-oriented curriculum and prime networking opportunities. If you’re interested in learning more about our flagship program and developing your managers into leaders, please visit our website to find a leadership trainer near you. Or maybe you yourself have always wanted to train and develop others. Crestcom is a global franchise with ownership opportunities available throughout the world. If you have ever thought about being your own boss, owning your own business and leveraging your leadership experience to impact businesses and leaders in your community, Crestcom may be the right fit for you. We’re looking for professional executives who are looking for a change and want to make a difference in people’s lives. Learn more about our franchise opportunity on the Own A Franchise page of our website at Crestcom.com. The post The Art of Networking: Tips and Tools for Better Connections with Alyce Blum from Articulated Intelligence appeared first on Crestcom International.

Apr 28, 2023 • 49min

Deep Listening in the Workplace with Author and Tech Industry Veteran, Oscar Trimboli

How to Build Deep Listening Skills in the Workplace with Oscar Trimboli Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Oscar Trimboli to talk about how to listen in the workplace. Now Oscar is on a quest to create 100 million deep listeners. He is an author, he’s the host of the Apple Award-winning podcast, Deep Listening, and is a sought after keynote speaker. He is passionate about using the gift of listening to bring positive change in homes, workplaces, and cultures worldwide. And I hope you enjoy our conversation and I hope you are also inspired to connect on a deeper level by using listening. So here is Oscar’s and my conversation on how to listen in the workplace. Meet Oscar Trimboli, Deep Listening Expert Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall and I’m so excited to have Oscar Trimboli. You heard about him on our opening bumper. This is the man behind– and I’m holding this up for those that can see our video recording of the podcast– he is the author of How to Listen: Discover the Hidden Key to Better Communication. And I am so excited to be having a conversation on how we can listen in the workplace because I feel like listening and communication is stuff that everyone thinks we should have solved by now. And yet these are the things that we still all have probably a big opportunity to improve upon. But Oscar, welcome to the show. We are so happy to have you. Oscar Trimboli: G’day, Jenn. Really looking forward to listening to your questions today. Jenn DeWall: Great. Well I just love to get started. I do this at the ever, I guess at the top of almost every show, which is what made you become interested in listening, how did you come to be where you are today? If you could just go ahead and give us an introduction from your words to our audience. What Started Your Deep Listening Journey? Oscar Trimboli: I think you need to zoom into a boardroom that I was in in April, 2008. We recently had bush fires in Sydney at the time and the, the smoke was still in the air conditioning system in the office and I can still feel that feeling. I don’t know if you’ve ever smelt smoke Jenn, but just will stay with you for a very, very long time. And I was on a video conference between Sydney, Seattle and Singapore and in that meeting there were, it was the budget setting meeting for the fiscal year, 18 people all around the world. The meeting is scheduled for 90 minutes, but these meetings are renowned to go for 3, 4, 5 hours because they are the budget setting meeting. You can’t leave till the budget set. Now, something really interesting happened at the 20 minute marker. I’m sitting there in the meeting and my vice president in the room, Tracy looks me straight in the eye and says, I need to see you immediately after this meeting. Now Jenn, for the rest of the meeting, I did not listen to a single word that was being said in that budget setting meeting because all I thought was I’m gonna get fired and how many weeks of salary have I got left and what are my job prospects. As marketing director at Microsoft at the time. I was completely freaked out at the 70 minute mark, 20 minutes earlier than anticipated. The meeting finished early and as everybody left, I got up and Tracy said, make sure you close the door. And I thought, wow, okay. So I went and closed the door and as I walked back to my chair, she said, you have no idea what you did at the 20 minute mark, do you? And I thought, great, I’m getting fired and I don’t even know what I did. And as I sat down, she said, the most profound thing I’ve ever heard somebody say to me, she said, Oscar, if you could code how you’d listen, you could change the world. The Quest to Improve Listening Skills in the Workplace Oscar Trimboli: And Jenn, as insightful, a moment of listening as that was on Tracy’s part, the only thing going through my head was, Woohoo, I hadn’t been fired. I can put all that money back in my bank account and the only thing I could blurt out in that moment was simply this. Tracy, do you mean code or code-code? Because we’re working on Microsoft. I thought maybe she’s asking me to make it into a methodology or or did you really mean software? And she said, code, Oscar code. And since then I’ve been on a quest to code listening and we’ve got a listening quiz. We’ve got three books, we’ve got podcasts, we’ve got jigsaw puzzle games, we have a range of resources to help people understand how to listen in the workplace. Because I don’t know about you Jenn. I didn’t go to a class at school. I didn’t have a subject on listening. Maybe it’s different in Colorado. Maybe it’s different where you went to school. Did you have a listening class? Jenn DeWall: I don’t think I ever had a specific listening class outside of a communications course in college. Yeah, I think that was probably the only like exposure that I had ever had to that. Oscar Trimboli: In our workplaces by the second decade of most people’s career, they’ve had at least one training in how to speak effectively, how to speak with influence or impact. By the third decade of their career. They’ve had two training courses on that. And for the same statistics, the answer is zero and zero for workplace employees who’ve got any training on how to listen. And it’s no different based on seniority. It’s no different based on industry. And it’s no different based on gender. We struggle with how to listen because we’ve never had any structured training. We have been taught how to listen. We’ve been taught by the role modeling of our managers, our executive, our parents, our auntie, our uncle, our teachers, our sports coaches, our music teachers, all of them role models, how to listen. And we picked up tips along the way. But most of us can say when it comes to math, there’s add, divide, subtract, multiply. When it comes to language. There’s verbs and nouns and pronouns and adjectives. When it comes to chemistry, there’s a periodic table of elements that’s identical no matter what language you speak around the world. But we don’t have anything like that about listening. In fact, most people can talk with more nuance about cheese or wine than they can talk about their listening. Jenn DeWall: <Laugh>. I like that. It’s interesting to think about that given that presumably people are listening more than they are eating cheese or drinking wine, you know Oscar Trimboli: Or speaking for that matter. You know, the more senior you are in an organization, the more leadership roles you take, the more of your day you are spending listening. So it’s a superpower you should be building more muscle on. You should know how to do it impactfully. And if you’re in customer facing roles or you are taking a brief, you know, medical situation or a legal situation you are spending more of your day listening, than you are actually talking. So if you want to increase profitability, if you want clients to become your best sales weapons, then if you listen to them, you’ll be very different from anybody else who engages with them. Who Needs to Improve Listening Skills in the Workplace? Jenn DeWall: So, getting into your newest book, How to Listen, Discover the Hidden Key for Better Communication, who is this book for? When you were writing it, who was that person that you had in mind or your inspiration that you really wanted to pick this book up? Oscar Trimboli: Rita is the inspiration. We, we actually talk about Rita in the book. And Rita is an energizer bunny. She’s a chief operating officer of a listed publicly traded company. And she’s got so many awards for her leadership. But what she did was bump into a leadership ceiling as Chief Operating Officer. She thought that by speaking faster, louder, and more energetically for her team, she would have a bigger impact. And what got her there wouldn’t get her to the next level of executive. And she had a moment when her chief executive officer had her annual performance review, and like every other performance review that Rita had, she was expecting a stellar performance review. And her CEO simply said to her, Rita, you’re too far ahead of your team. They feel like they’re chasing you, and they don’t know where they fit in. You are way ahead of the team. Every time they bring you an issue, you are trying to fix it instead of listen to them. And when you are not present as a leader, the results don’t sustain themselves. The difference between a manager and a leader, a manager gets things done when they’re there. A leader gets things done when they’re not there. And Rita had become this really good manager who got things done. She was epic cheerleader. She was the leader who was always there early and left late and she was completely drained and she was struggling to understand, hey, this is how I’ve been leading before. Why am I struggling now? Why am I getting all this poor feedback? And the CEO said something to her that kind of changed the way she thought about it. And this is when she started to explore different leadership approaches that her, her CEO simply said, you’ve got 90 days to fix it, or I will <laugh>. The Importance of Listening to What People Don’t Say Oscar Trimboli: So I don’t, I dunno if that was a veil threat at her role, I don’t suspect it was, but it was very clear to Rita something needed to change in the way she led. And yeah, from that point on, Rita started to explore what’s the other half of communication. And she had to pause and slow down and ask more questions than solve problems. As an example. Now I can tell you today, Rita’s a very successful CEO. Not in that organization, but in another one that’s publicly traded. And she only adjusted her leadership by 5%. And the 5% was exploring not just what people say, but what people don’t say. When you understand the neuroscience of listening, that is the speaker can speak at between 125 words to 150 words per minute, yet they can think at 900. So if you just listen to what they say, you’re missing out on about 86% of what they think and what they mean. And when you understand that listening is to help the speaker express what they think and what they mean not to help your understanding, all of a sudden employee engagement changes. They’ll give more effort when you’re not there. And customers will refer you because they sense you care not only about the transaction, but also about the relationship. Suppliers will give you e extra effort because you understand their constraints. So when we wrote the book, it was for a Rita. Jenn DeWall: I love it. No, thank you so much for sharing that. And I know we’re gonna dive into the barriers cause my head is already going into thinking of some of the challenges that I’ve experienced with listening, right? Such as missing maybe not what’s brought up, but also sometimes not listening at all to what’s brought up is what comes around. But before we dive into that and you know, talk a little bit more about bias or just different challenges within listening, let’s start with that basic definition. I know you differentiate active versus deep listening. What is the difference between the two? What is the Difference Between Active Listening and Deep Listening? Oscar Trimboli: Active listening is really important. Active listening is about hearing what is being said. And typically, you’ve been trained in active listening training if you’ve had any training at all, to nod, to paraphrase, to use nonverbal affirmation to the speaker, to keep eye contact, to not be distracted. And so active listening is about paying attention to what’s being said. Deeper listening is about giving attention and noticing what’s not being said. So you’ll need to progress from active listening into deep listening. And the important part of that is most people focus on the speaker as their first act of listening. And that’s the wrong place to start. And this is the bit that the active listening movement kind of jumps this step. You need to listen to yourself. Step one in listening is not focusing on the speaker. Because so many of us turn up to conversations, Jenn, with all these browser tabs open in our mind, chewing up our memory, and we’re not available, the next conversation just becomes the overload and our browser crashes in our mind. And we can’t process what’s being said because we’re thinking about the last conversation. We’re thinking about the next conversation. We’re thinking about our next question. We’re thinking about why they’re wrong, and we’re right. All these things are probably going through your head right now, Jenn. Right. Jenn DeWall: No, I’m also thinking of, because I, I appreciate that. Because one of the pieces that I loved, like from your book of reading was one of the pieces was talking about even starting when you’re starting with yourself, which is the first place of the diagram or the process of listening. I really appreciated I was the recommendation, the three minutes. By taking the three minutes, could you tell us a little bit more about what that is, when we can get in tune to ourselves and how we’re feeling and how we’re showing up to be more present? Three Minutes to Better Listening (And Shorter Meetings) Oscar Trimboli: Yeah. What I’m about to say next is easy to say. It’s hard to practice, but based on our research, we know that if you apply these three tips over three minutes before you go into any conversation, either face-to-face or via video, it will make a material difference. Not just to how you listen, but also to how the speaker explains their idea. When you do this well, what you will not have is speakers rambling, repeating stories. You won’t have them jumping around. When a speaker notices that you’re present and actually listening to them. Meetings are shorter, they’re more succinct, and they get to the point. Now, I don’t know about you Jenn, but shorter meetings, I would love to have shorter meetings. I would love to have less meetings. But for many people that we’re tracking, when they practice these three things, three minutes before the meeting, they consistently report back to their meetings are shorter because the speaker or speakers in a group are getting to the point. Tip 1: Manage Electronic Notifications Oscar Trimboli: So here are the three tips. Tip number one, manage your electronic notifications before the meeting. That’s not to say switch them off because in some situations you may not be able to. Okay? Be careful of your connected watch the new evil villain of stealing your attention. Tip 2: Drink a Glass of Water Oscar Trimboli: A tip number two is to drink a glass of water before you go into a conversation. Now, if you love Starbucks and you love coffee, that’s okay. Please also drink a glass of water. It just sends a signal to the place around your ribcage, which is called a parasympathetic nervous system. And it just tells you to relax. In fact, if you are in a meeting that goes for more than 30 minutes, you should be drinking a glass of water every 30 minutes as well. Tip 3: Take 3 Deep Breaths Oscar Trimboli: And then finally, before you go into that conversation, whether you’re clicking into the video conference or you’re stepping into the meeting room, just pause and take three deep breaths before you get into that room or that video conference. And again, it sends a signal to the parasympathetic nervous system to say slow down. And what it does is a result starts to shut down some of those browser tabs in your mind. So there’s available memory for you to focus on the speaker. Bonus Tip – Recharge with Music Oscar Trimboli: Now, there’s a bonus tip as well. If you want to do all of that to three minutes worth of music, pick a song that matches the energy you want to bring to the conversation. So it could be a fast tempo song, it could be a short tempo song. It could be a song that’s just instrumental, or it could be with words. That’s completely up to you, the Jenn, I don’t know about you, but music consistently rewires my mind before I go into any conversation. So if I want to recharge my listening battery, which I struggle with two, music is the fastest way for me to plug in and recharge. Jenn DeWall: No, I, I am here for music because it just shifts so much! But I want to go back to the pause before the meeting, because I think in the same way that some people don’t want to bring in the chit chat because they’ve got things to do. I could imagine some people initially saying, pause, we’ve got things to do. But you had talked about a story in your book from Google. Tell us a little bit more because from what I am understanding in that example, it was well received. And so maybe I want to bring this up so people can trust instead of saying we’ve got things to do. Start Meetings 5 Minutes After the Hour to Improve Listening Oscar Trimboli: Yeah. In his amazing book, James Clear, who writes about Atomic Habits, says, you don’t rise to the level of your goals— you fall to the level of your systems. And when we think about listening systems, one of the things I would encourage every one of you to do if you are the host of the meeting and you are creating the meeting do not start the meeting at the top of the hour. Start at five minutes after the hour. Here’s why. Most people will arrive physically on time, and some don’t. They’ll arrive five minutes after the hour, but mentally they won’t arrive until five minutes after the time the meeting commences. So let’s contrast these two meetings, and I am answering your Google question in this example, so I haven’t forgotten. So imagine there’s two meetings. Number one, this meeting starts at the top of the hour. Everybody comes in at one minute, after two minutes, after three minutes after four minutes after, five minutes after. And they all say, oh yeah, I just got back from my last meeting, sorry, I’m late. I I I’ll be ready. Just, oh, the second type of meeting they arrive at five minutes after the hour, the exact same time. And they go, Jenn, I love your meetings. I’ve actually had time to go to the bathroom. I’ve actually had time to get a glass of water. I’ve actually had time to collect my thoughts. I look forward to our meetings because when they start at five minutes after the hour, I’m ready. And even for those people who arrive late five, after the hour, they will say similar things. Now, which meeting do you want? As the host of the meeting? You can create both meetings. If you’re creating one hour meeting, stop it. Just create 50-minute meetings and give people five minutes at the end of their meeting. Start Each Meeting with Silence to Improve Listening in the Workplace Oscar Trimboli: As of well now, in 2015, one of the most commented things in the Google Geist, Google Geist is Google’s employee engagement reports. And, and they commented on meetings with over six people in that year. They asked everybody to commence the meeting with a pause, just with silence that was hosted by the leader of the meeting for a period of time. Depending on the size of the meeting, this could vary between a minute to three minutes. And it was the most commented thing on the Google guide where it was implemented. And what they noticed was the meetings where people paused at the beginning of the meeting and collected their thoughts and just got present to the meeting. Those meetings were more effective and shorter. Jenn DeWall: For all of the people that might be thinking, that’s a waste of time. I mean, I, it’s just to hear that if we just slow it down, that we can actually heighten people’s ability to connect and interact. I think that’s a really powerful example. Now, okay, can I have pause and chit chat? Can I do both? Because what do we do when we’re trying to build in the water cooler talk? And of course this is a joke, but I know that’s often one of the things that people might start a meeting at. But do you start with the pause, then do a little networking, then get into the agenda? What would you recommend? Oscar Trimboli: Well, listening, situational, relational and contextual. So the answer is, it depends If the team is in an early stage of team formation, the chit chat is gonna be more important than the pause. If that team is at the middle of a project, the pause is gonna be more important than the chit chat. But beware, beware, everybody of people creating false binaries. False binary is chit chat or silence. You can do both. Skilled leaders can invite the opportunity to do both. And here’s the thing that we know from not only the research and from the Google Geist that we we talked about earlier on, is that when meetings are rushed, people come back to the following meeting with a deliverable, for example, and say, Hey Jenn, I’ve brought this back for you. And Jenn says, oh, no, no, no, that’s not what I meant. What I meant was this. Oscar Trimboli: And there’s a whole range of rework that has to happen. So that’s in a project context, in a, in a sales context for a customer, that might be the customer saying, no, no, no, I didn’t mean that in the brief. What I meant was this. So you’ve just wasted a whole bunch of time after the meeting where you’ve done all this work that you think is productive. Yet if you are present in the meeting to them and you moved your listening from what they said to what they think and ultimately to what they mean, then all of a sudden not only is the meeting shorter, the project’s shorter, there’s less rework there. So when it comes to chitchat or silence, one of the things we talk about in the book is listen now for absolutes and, and people setting up binaries like that where it’s, it’s either this or it’s that, that they’re listening to what’s being said, not what’s not being said. Because there are many options. There’s option A and B, there’s option one and two. Yet if you listen deeply as a group, there may be option C, d e, F 1, 3, 5, 7. And the answer is all of those things. But rarely in a meeting does a host take the time to listen to all voices and all options. And initially it may seem the meeting is going slower, but it’ll speed up at the back end much quicker. You’ll deliver high quality output and you’ll do it quicker over the life cycle of any project. Jenn DeWall: And people will just feel seen or at, you know, if I was in a meeting where, cause I’ve sat in multiple meetings throughout my career where either you’re, you sit behind the boardroom table and that’s your designation. They still want you to participate, but yet you’re, you’re behind them sitting at the conference table. And even just having that inclusive feel, I think changes the entire, I guess, morale that I would ever have in any of those types of meetings. A Message from Crestcom Crestcom is a global organization dedicated to developing effective leaders. Companies all over the world have seen their managers transformed into leaders through our award-winning and accredited leadership development programs. Our signature BPM program provides interactive management training with a results-oriented curriculum and prime networking opportunities. If you’re interested in learning more about our flagship program and developing your managers into leaders, please visit our website to find a leadership trainer near you. Or maybe you yourself have always wanted to train and develop others. Crestcom is a global franchise with ownership opportunities available throughout the world. If you have ever thought about being your own boss, owning your own business and leveraging your leadership experience to impact businesses and leaders in your community, Crestcom may be the right fit for you. We’re looking for professional executives who are looking for a change and want to make a difference in people’s lives. Learn more about our franchise opportunity on the Own A Franchise page of our website at Crestcom.com. The Four Villains of Listening Jenn DeWall: I know that at the top we had talked about Rita and going into the obstacles. One of the pieces that the book dives into is that not everyone listens the same. Tell us a little bit more about what we need to be aware of as leaders in terms of understanding how we all listen a little bit differently. You talked about listening for absolutes, but I know in the book you also explored a few other examples of what that looks like. Oscar Trimboli: We’ve been lucky because we’ve got this wonderful evidence base when people can complete the listening quiz. They tell us what gets in their way when it comes to listening, as well as complete 20 questions that they answer as well. And what typically happens is there’s four things that get in people’s way and we labeled them, or the people who took part in the research actually labeled them the four villains of listening. Dramatic interrupting, lost and shrewd. Now, I just spent a little bit of time with each of those because I’m a shrewd listener at work and I’m a lost listener at home. My brother-in-laws every Sunday they bang on about religion over and over and over again. And I’m completely lost in the conversation. And the religious debate they have is the religion of, of canon photography versus Nikon photography. It’s just religious fervor in the way they approach it. The Lost Listener Oscar Trimboli: And my idea of photography is my phone. It’s like, it’s, it’s not something I’m interested in. And when I’m lost in that discussion, I feel like what’s my purpose in the conversation? I feel like, gee, I must be coming across as really vague. I’m distracted really easily. And that’s what the Lost listener struggles with their position in a conversation. So imagine a group meeting where you’ve been politely invited as a participant, but given no context about your role, one thing the lost listener should ask the host is, what role do you want me to play in this meeting? If you ask that question, all of a sudden you have a focus for not only your listening but your attention during that meeting. Now, as a shrewd listening villain myself, and the reason I want to pull me apart is that everyone somehow thinks I’m a perfect listener. The Shrewd Listener Oscar Trimboli: I’m like all of us. I’m struggling with it too. I just want to get a little bit better every day. Shrewd listeners are problem-solving machines. They have spent many, many, many, many years in deep study, shrewd listening. Villains are disproportionately represented in consulting professions, legal, accounting, human resources, it anybody who supports functions in the business. And what they’re doing is they’re jumping ahead. Whatever the person’s saying they are jumping ahead and going, yeah, yeah, I know that problem, I can fix that. And I’ve got three others that you haven’t even said, and I’m gonna help you with those too. But what the shrewd listener is not doing is they don’t notice this. And this is what the speaker says about the shrewd listening villain. They say they’re trying to fix me, they’re not paying attention and they’re trying to fix me. And they’re actually trying to fix the problem. But it is the perception from the speakers. Because we also research the people speaking as well as the people listening. They say, the shrewd listening villain is trying to fix me. The shrewd listener should spend more time listening to how somebody’s saying it, as well as what they’re saying. So shrewd listening villain is very good at synthesizing the content and solving the current issue that they’re missing enormous nuance in what’s not being said. The Interrupting Listener Oscar Trimboli: Now, the interrupting listening villain values time. This person you mentioned earlier on, Hey, we’ve got an agenda and there’s no chit chat. That’s likely to be the interrupting and listening villain. They’re the quiz show contestant on jeopardy that presses the buzzer before the complete question is being asked, asked, and they get the wrong answer. Right? So for them they value time and, and time is important, don’t get me wrong. And time is the only finite resource that we really, really have. What the speaker says about the interrupting listening villain is, can’t you just wait? Can’t I just say it fully? Why? Creating friction in our relationship, you’re too busy on task and you just need to wait. Just count one 1000, two 1000, three 1000. And you’ll notice when they take a breath, it’s not a pause, they’re just collecting their thoughts to finish the sentence. The Dramatic Listener Oscar Trimboli: The final one is the dramatic listening villain who, who connects emotionally. The emotion is the primary way they form connection in a dialogue. Hmm. Jenn described it as a chit chat, how to do the relationship bit. The beginning. What they do is you’ll say to a dramatic listener, I’m really struggling with my manager when they turn up to my meetings for one-on-ones, they’re always late and most of the time they don’t turn up at all. And then the dramatic listening villain who’s trying to form a connection but just moving the spotlight off the speaker onto them will say, wow, you think you’ve got a bad manager? Let me tell you about the worst manager I’ve ever had in my life. And off they go. And they, it’s like, same with the merger, same with a terrible customer. There’s all these situations, what the speaker says when they’re interrupting with the dramatic listening villain is simply this. It’s all about them. And as a result, I’ll say less and all they’re trying to do is form a connection, but they’re jumping too far and they’re moving the spotlight off the speaker and onto themselves. So when you think about the worst listener, you know, they will have elements over all of those dramatic interrupting, lost and shrew. Which one of those can you relate to the most, Jenn? Jenn DeWall: I feel like I would probably be more dramatic, but I think because of my younger experience, like, cause I’m very sensitive to other people’s emotions in that regard. I think I attached to that. I think because of my upbringing, I’m relatively like decent at making sure to keep the spotlight. But as you were saying that, I have a friend that I adore <laugh>, but I like was thinking and I’m like, oh my gosh, this is her. I really love her. But I know sometimes she can rub people the wrong ways because I hear it almost as they describe her as a one upper, like, oh, you went to Australia? Well, I’ve been to Australia 10 times. Oh, you ate this? Well, I ate that, you know, at five different restaurants. And I love her. I’ve known her for over 20 years, so I know how she is. But I think if I had to put another name on it, I’m like, that’s what it’s <laugh>. Oscar Trimboli: I like, I like that. The one-upper Jenn DeWall: Yes. It’s oh my gosh. Like I’ll spare anymore. Because I do love her. But yeah, she, that’s just, and it’s actually to me because I, I find it endearing. Like I know who she is and yeah, I guess, you know, so I find it endearing, but at a workplace that would actually drive me bananas because I would not feel heard and yes, like having it feel like, oh, so it’s about you even though it’s not. And I think full transparency, that many years of therapy that I’ve done throughout my whole life being very mindful of how you’re supposed to approach someone when they are explaining something that’s sensitive and like keeping that spotlight in them. Like that’s something I’m probably more hypersensitive to in emotional situations. I’m probably not gonna be like, oh, you went through this traumatic thing. Let me tell you about mine. But she might do that, and I love her, but she might do that. Let’s talk about the role of bias in the workplace. What role does bias play as it relates to listening? How Does Bias Hurt Our Listening Skills in the Workplace? Oscar Trimboli: Well, we’ve already spoken about the four primary biases that get in people’s way, emotion, time, relevance to the conversation and problem-solving. And for many of us, we are not conscious of some really simple biases. I I, I’ll give you a very practical one. One bias is do you listen for similar, the familiar or do you listen for difference? Most of us, because of western education systems, because of the scientific method, we are trained to listen for similarity. We don’t know this, it’s a subconscious bias, but the scientific method says, do an experiment, find data, improve, do an experiment, find data, improve in law, you use case data and the history of case data to support the way you do something. You are listening for similarity. You’re not necessarily listening for difference. And for most people, we do a survey in our workshops all around the world, and it’s pretty consistent. Nine out of 10 people will self-identify as a listening for similarity first and listening for different second. Now again, be aware as I mentioned earlier on, if somebody’s setting up a false binary similar, different is a good example of that there is an option called both. And, and we’ll talk about that as well. So when you think about buyers, I want you to come with me to a story with Christopher and, and Jennifer. And they, they live in Minnesota and Jenn, a stay at home mom. And Christopher was coming home from junior school and he said, mommy, mommy, I’m so excited today I learned that three is half of eight. Now Jennifer thought she misheard him and said, honey, could you say that again? And he said, yes, mommy, we learned that three is half of eight. Oscar Trimboli: Jennifer thought, Hmm. So she went to the kitchen cupboard and got out a packet of M&Ms and she laid out four M&M chocolate soldiers in one row and four m and m chocolate soldiers in another row and had them facing each other. And she asked Christopher how many M&Ms, and he went, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 1, 2, 3, 4. And she explained to him, you see four, not three is half of eight. You see with that, Christopher jumps off the kitchen bench, gets a sharpie from the corner cupboard and draws the figure eight on a piece of paper. And what he does next is he folds the piece of paper in half and he tears the piece of paper in half and shows his mom two perfectly form threes. And in that moment, Jennifer’s world changed because she just discovered that three is half of eight. Now, what’s even more interesting, Jenn, is if you turn the eight sideways, tear the piece of paper horizontally, zero is half of eight, three is half of eight, and four is half of eight. Now, when we listen for similarity, what we do is we go, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Four is half of eight, four is half of eight. Four is half of eight, you’re wrong. And yet when you think in geometry, which is what Christopher meant, not what he said, there are many, many, many possibilities. Zero is half of eight, three is half of eight, four is half of eight. And there are many other options in there as well. But for most of us in workplace conversations, because we listen for similarity, we’re in judgment going, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Have you ever had a three is half of eight moment in the workplace, Jenn, that you kind of go, oh yeah, that’s where my bias showed up. Confirming the “Afters” to Improve Listening in the Workplace Jenn DeWall: Absolutely. I think I had one even a month ago when I was working with someone and misunderstood the deadline that they were setting and the deadline that they were setting. I interpreted it as we wanted this basically yesterday, even though I just got it. And then I spent 12 to 14 hours to do it. And then when we came back and I was frustrated in our follow-up conversation that I had had such a low turnaround, and then it was the, you know, the three, three is half of eight moment. No, this was the piece that I thought you would want, not this entire thing that you, and absolutely, yes. And there was a lot of pain in that moment as and frustration as I was, you know, scrambling to get this done because I wanted to do it. The, I just didn’t understand the scope. But yeah, that was absolutely the moment, <laugh> Oscar Trimboli: And, and for many of us, we don’t confirm with the speaker what they want. And you’ve used a beautiful illustration there of, in our rush to be on time, we actually missed the deliverable because it wasn’t what they meant, it’s what they said because we interpreted that way through our own lens. But a simple question, would be, so just to confirm, could you outline the deliverable you’re expecting tomorrow? Yeah. That it would’ve had a completely different conversation and you would’ve got 14 hours back in your life, <laugh>, that you’ll never get back again, right? But, but for many of us, what we, what we choose to do is think that listening is about understanding what the speaker said. When we listen effectively, when we move beyond active listening, and instead of just paraphrasing, we will go back and check with the speaker what they actually meant. Oscar Trimboli: But if your browser tabs are full in a conversation, you won’t even have the state of mind in place to go, oh, I have to check that. You’ll just do what, what you just did. Thanks for sharing a beautiful and common example of when people struggle with the difference between spoken and what the meaning is actually there. And just remember, if you can take away that 1 25, 900 rule, you can ask three questions that will help you and the speaker. And I think that’ll be helpful for you Jenn, as well. As those listening, these three questions go in different directions. Using A Compass for Better Listening Skills Oscar Trimboli: If you think about a listening compass, I’m gonna give you a north-south question. North-south questions continue and they help you to listen for more similarity, the more familiar. And now I’m gonna give you an east west question, which will help you listen for difference. And then I’m gonna give you a really powerful technique, the third technique. And this question’s the shortest question of all. So the north south question is a version of, tell me more. Now, if you just use, tell me more in a conversation. And people aren’t used to you using very short language like that, they may get confused and may think it’s an interrogation. So make a humor, make it personal. Wow. Jenn, I’m, I’m fascinated. Could you say more about that? And they will continue talking in a similar way to the issue. The sequence is probably like this, east, west, next north, south, first, east, west, next we want to ask a question for the difference. And it’s a version of this. And what else? I’m fascinated, is there anything else you’ve considered? Is there anything else you want to explore? Is there, you get the point, but what we’ll do, we’ll move the speaker’s time horizon. Now this is the version of the question I use when I’m working with a client. I simply say this and insert whatever element of this question makes sense for you. I will say, Jenn, Oscar Trimboli: If your manager was in the room, what’s the question we should have asked ourselves that we haven’t? Jenn, if the shareholders were in the room, Jenn, if the founder was in the room, Jenn, if the customer was in the room, Jenn, if the supplier was in the room, Jenn, if the regulator was in the room, Jenn, if the media was in the room, pick whatever version of that question is helpful for you. Maybe a supply for example, or an employee. But what it does immediately, it stops the speaker immediately and they go, oh, okay. And then they bring up a question that we haven’t discussed it maybe one or maybe two, maybe three. And because we’ve raised it in this discussion, they will raise it in the next discussion with that person. But more importantly, we have gone in a completely different direction in this conversation and we haven’t wasted our time. East west questions should not be asked any later than 40% of the way into the meeting. because then it’s too late, you won’t catch it. If it’s your last question, you’ve missed a massive opportunity. The Moment of Silence Oscar Trimboli: Now the final technique is the most powerful and done well. It’s liberating, done poorly. It’s intimidating. Here it is a listen carefully because it’s really short. Now don’t worry, no microphones froze or no video froze. There’s no coincidence that the word silent has the exact same letters as the word listen. In the West, we have this interesting relationship with silence. We call it the pregnant pause, the awkward silence, the deafening silence in high context cultures, cultures that value the relationship above the task. China, Korea, Japan, the Inuit of North America, the indigenous communities of Australia, the Maori of New Zealand, the Polynesians of the Pacific. Silence is a sign of wisdom, respect, and authority. And simply holding space with silence will show to the speaker you value them, you see them, you hear them, and you’ll want to hear what they’re thinking as well as what they’re meaning. Jenn DeWall: I love that we did another pause after that one too, <laugh>, because I will say that that is, you know, especially when I’m nervous, that can be, and I’m sure someone else listening likely has that, that can be the harder piece is to incorporate that pause. I can get that, you know, the anxiety can start to tick up with the pause. But I appreciate even just the different considerations of the value that the pause brings because I, I know I need that reminder. It just because it is such an instinctual, oh, this is uncomfortable. Holy cow. Okay, better say like 25,000 things that don’t make sense and might derail this. And then I can go and kick myself for it later because I should have actually just embraced the pause. <Laugh> Oscar, I really enjoyed our conversation. I know that we, we could have absolutely carried on for much longer, but could you go ahead and tell our audience how they can connect with you, how they could book you, how they could work with you, where they can get the book, all of the beautiful things or any final messages that you would love to share with them. Where to Find More From Oscar Trimboli Oscar Trimboli: I’d love it if you connected with me, but I’d rather you connected with your own listening in the book How to Listen. We give you directions to ListeningQuiz.com where you can take a 20-question assessment. It’ll be done maximum has ever taken anybody. Seven minutes. Typically it’s gonna take you five minutes. You’ll get a report as well with your primary villain. The book itself will help you go through some of the things in enormous detail. And one of my favorite quotes from an Amazon review about the book was listening. It’s like sex and comedy. We all think we’re better at it than we really are. So I believe if you’re good at listening, you are also good at comedy and sex. But you’ll have to read the book to find out. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much, Oscar. I loved our conversation, and to bring it back, thank you so much for coming on the Leadership Habit. That was a great Amazon review. No, but thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time. And I mean, hopefully we can all make bigger, we can have better meetings and have better relationships with people if we just focus on how to listen. Thank you so much for being on the show. Oscar Trimboli: Thanks for listening. Thanks for Listening to The Leadership Habit Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. I really enjoyed my conversation with Oscar and I hope that you did too. Now, as Oscar mentioned at the end of the show, you can go to www.listeningquiz.com, and there you can find out more about your own unique listening style. And if you want to connect with Oscar to learn more about what he does, and find out more about his books, you can head on over to OscarTrimboli.com. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy today’s podcast, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast treatment platform. And, of course, if we at Crestcom can help you in any way to develop you or your team or your organization’s leadership skillset, add on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to come into your organization and offer a two-hour complimentary leadership skills workshop. Until next time. The post Deep Listening in the Workplace with Author and Tech Industry Veteran, Oscar Trimboli appeared first on Crestcom International.

Apr 21, 2023 • 39min

Gen Z in the Workplace — What Managers Need to Know, with Mark Beal, Gen Z Expert

How to Lead Gen Z at Workplace with Gen Z Expert, Mark Beal Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Gen Z expert, Mark Beal to have a conversation about how to manage generations in the workplace. Mark gives us some great insights into how to look at the newest generation coming in, Gen Z! He lets us know how to make sure that we’re getting the best out of people and we’re creating a workplace where people feel that they belong! But before I go into the show, love You, tell you a little bit more about Mark. Mark Beal is one of the world’s leading Generation Z experts. Mark is an assistant professor of practice in the school of communication and information at Rutgers University, and he has served as a public relations practitioner and marketer for more than 25 years. Mark has authored seven books, including his most recent, ZEO: Introducing Gen Z — The New Generation of Leaders. To learn more about Mark, you can hunt on over and go to MarkBealSpeaks.com. But hey, I hope you enjoy the show and the conversation as Mark and I talk about how to manage different generations in the workplace. Meet Mark Beal, the Gen Z Expert Jenn DeWall: Good morning, Mark. Welcome to The Leadership Habit podcast. I’m so excited for our conversation. We are going to talk about how to manage a multi-generational workplace. And let me tell you, you recently wrote a book- ZEO – and I want you to dive into that. And our audience has heard a little bit about you, but could you go ahead and tell us about yourself, how you came to be, and tell me a little bit more about the work that you do? Mark Beal: Absolutely. Jenn, first of all, great to be here with you. And yes, I did just write this book that I’m really excited about! ZEO: Introducing Gen Z – The New Generation of Leaders. So currently I’ve authored four books on Gen Z I’m assistant professor at Rutgers University. They call me a professor of practice because I come from 30 plus years of public relations and marketing on the agency side in New York. And so, you know, I’ve experienced from an employer standpoint as, as one of the managing partners of the agency, you know, managing and working and collaborating with various generations. I had that experience. But for probably, you know, from 2002, five, 2010, 2015, every assignment, every brief, every RFP we received from a client was how do we engage millennials, right? So that was the focus for many brands, especially the brands I worked with who were category leading consumer brands, whether in food, beverage, apparel, fashion, sports, whatever it might have been. And so I left a course in after teaching at Rutgers, and I had a light bulb moment. The lip bulb moment was millennials are the focus, have been the focus. But come 2022, 23, 25 and beyond, Gen Z will become the focus, so I just started immersing myself in Generation Z six years ago. And I still have the same routine. Just like today, this morning I wake up and at around 6:00 AM I just search for any recent articles, reports, studies, surveys, and I file all that away and then use that as part of, again, articles. I write books, I write presentations that make, so every day I’m mining for the latest insights on Generation Z. And many of those insights are around Gen Z’s arrival at the workplace. Gen Z and Their Millennial Managers Jenn DeWall: Yes. No, I love that. And well, it, as someone I remember, even when I came into coaching and it was, that was all the rage, the focus, right? How do we manage those pesky millennials? They are driving us bananas. They want feedback all the time. Who do they think they are? Everyone wants a trophy. I remember that. So like it was yesterday and it was not yesterday. And it’s interesting because where I sit today, it feels like Gen Z is not getting the backlash that millennials got, do you? Is that I just not seeing it? Mark Beal: I think you are right about that. I think you’re right about they’re, they’re, they’re not, for some reason, they’re coming in as these, and again, I I work with them closely, collaborate with them closely, you know, but they’re coming in as these entrepreneurial, you know, spirited individuals, very tech savvy, digital savvy, with a purpose, all those things. But you raise a point, I’m sure we’ll get into it later, but millennials today, after going deep and immersing myself in this multi-generational workplace, which we have today, right? Almost unprecedented from Gen Zers to boomers. What I’ve found, and what I say and what I talk about is that millennials are the critical, critical, critical, what I call bridge that bridges the newest employees, Gen Z with the leaders, Gen Xers and boomers. And that bridge has gotta be solid. And that bridge, that bridge can’t break. And so millennials are in this all important position of being that bridge. And they’ve got a lot of pressure. They’ve got a lot of pressure on them because they’re reporting to these senior leaders who’ve been around for 30, 35, 40 years, and that’s what they report to. But they are, you know, responsible for mentoring and managing this, this new group of leaders, these Gen Zers are coming in. So right now, and I’ve talked to millennials one-on-one about this, they feel the pressure. They like the opportunity, they embrace the opportunity, but they, to me, are in the most critical position of any generation right now in the workplace. Because are that bridge from the newest Gen Zers to the Gen Xers and boomers who are, you know, leading companies. The Multigenerational Workforce: Boomers, Gen X, Millennials & Gen Z Jenn DeWall: I love that. Of like them really being the bridge. So let’s level set it. Who are the generations that exist in the workforce today? Mark Beal: Yeah, I mean in most organizations, right? So we’ll start, right, in most organizations we’ve got boomers, Xers like me. So again, you know, your boomers and X have been working in some capacity 35, 40 years, maybe even a little bit more, right? So what I always say about boomers and Xers, and not to lump them together, but what I say, say is the value they bring in, by the way, all generations bring great value to the, to the workplace, but the value they bring is that experience. Lot of lessons learned, probably a lot of failures along way. Great successes, case studies, and tremendous professional networks of that leverage at any time for any situation, for any challenge, for any opportunity, right? They’ve got all that. And if we go the opposite of the Gen Z has none of that. <Laugh>, you, Gen Z does not have decades of experience. Gen Z does not have vast professional networks. Gen Z does not have you lessons learned, at least extensive lessons learned and insights and successes and all that. So they don’t have that. But they do bring, again, this entrepreneurial mindset, this entrepreneurial spirit. They do bring incredible tech savviness. They do bring this, you know, social and digital media acumen. And that’s incredibly valuable course in today’s world. So they do bring all of those kinds of things. And then as we said, the millennials, again, to me, they’re that critical, critical bridge between the Gen Zers, between the Xers, between the boomers, and in essence they’re managing up and down every single day. And again, that’s where pressure is, right? You know, if you think about Gen Zers, they are managing up, they’re reporting up. It’s what they’re doing. And boomers they’re managing, they’re leading, but the millennials are smack in the middle of that. And they’re also the point in their where, you know, they’re not the new kids on the block anymore. They’ve been around now 10, 12, 13, whatever it might be, they’re also evolving their career to, they’re reaching those roles, those vice president roles and eventually replace the Xers and the boomers, Jenn DeWall: Right? Gosh, I think I’m just going through how old I am as well as you’re talking about that. I’m like, I’ve been in the workforce for 18 years, <laugh>, I mean, and that, and that doesn’t count my early years as a newspaper delivery person or working at the mall. But you know, there is so much that I respect, and I, and I feel that as a millennial, I think it’s, it’s an obligation in my opinion, but not in a negative way. Like I want to help Gen Z like navigate that. Or they just don’t know what they don’t know. And when I think about, even when I entered the workplace, I feel like that was starting to make that shift, right? Like I remember talking to this he had to be, I guess he probably had to be a boomer. He probably is a boomer, right? If I’m actually thinking about that now. Sure. Yeah. And I remember talking to him and he’s like, I just don’t get it. I do not understand it. And he was an executive for the company that I worked with. He’s like, I was brought up in work you had to do because you know, you needed to get it done. You didn’t get to have fun, you needed to put your head down like this wasn’t that. And he’s like, and now I watch all of you and you want this to be fun. He’s like, and he was lovely. Like he was still just perplexed by it of like, yeah, what is going on in here? And, and I still, it was very endearing conversation, but it is true. Like I feel like the millennials came up right when there was a bigger workforce kind of shift. And I think that I just love Gen Z and I know we’re gonna dive into it because I think Gen Z is pushing it to the next level. But why is it important? Because I know that like even sometimes for me, I’m like, do, does it matter still as much to look at generations? Because should we be looking at all of the differences that we have instead of, you know, just that one. Like why is it important to understand the generations? Why is Understanding Generational Differences Important? Mark Beal: First of all, completely agree with you. You raise a great point, right? In this age of a prioritization on diversity inclusion, right? A sense of belonging, especially 2020 where companies start to prioritize diversity, inclusion, equity, you right? Generations and age is just one factor. One factor. There’s so many factors like the, you know, the different experience people bring, the, the different backgrounds they have. Just so many things. When we talk about diversity and inclusion, one of the areas that doesn’t get talked about too much is actually age, which is interesting. I heard that from like, you know, an Xer and a boomer where cause you hear, you know, every once in a while you hear about ageism and they say, you know, the age element doesn’t come up too often when companies are talking about this idea of DEI. And so that was an interesting insight I received too when I was kinda delving into different generations of the workplace. Just the fact that maybe, you know, some of the older, more senior Xers and boomers are like, yeah, but should be a factor in DEI, too, right? Just as different backgrounds and all those kinds of things are. So its really interesting where we, just to go back real quick, to your point, so I’m a I’ll, I’ll admit it, I’m a 56 year old Xer, so I am on the older side of Gen X. So to your point, boomers roughly, you know, are, are, you know, right around 60 plus, right? So there are plenty of 60, 61, 60 still actively working, still actively leading companies, right? So that’s, you know, we talk boomers there. And again, I’m just using round years, you know, 60 plus, you know, then you’ve got your Xers like me in those kinda late fifties, mid fifties, early fifties, right? And then all of a, as you said, millennials believe it, they’re in their forties. Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I’m 40. I’m not happy about it, Mark Beal: Why I wrote the CEO e book, but a year ago I wrote a book called Gen Z graduates to Adulthood. And the reason I wrote that was Gen Z’s last year turned 25. This year, they turned 26, which again, even in me, that’s, wow, they’re already, that sounds old to me. When just a few years ago they were all in school, you know, college, high school, middle school, elementary school. So that was another reason, kinda for the last two books is that, you know, Gen Zers, aren’t those kids anymore just in school? They’re actually the oldest, if they’re six, potentially are four, maybe five years into their career. So they’ve already gone from entry level to maybe supervisor roles or manager roles. Gen Z Wants to Belong at Work Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And again, I appreciate so much about Gen Z and when I, and I appreciate that you said the age that it’s often left out of conversations on diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging. And I admit, like I was one of those people that’s like, can we not talk about generations? But even as you were saying it, my light bulb moment was no, because I have been in rooms, I absolutely can think about being in a, like I was leading an event and someone had come up, like had talked about ageism, they had recently went through, you know, like their organization was going through layoffs and they were really concerned about that. They would be the ones out. And we do have to talk about that. Or even I think of, oh gosh, I’ve even been a part of team, like, let’s call ’em team building events that were very heavily physically active and we had someone that was 75 and not active. And you know, you think about capabilities in that regard or interest in that regard, or even just having kind of like cliques in the workplace Yeah. Where you feel like I can’t, you know, because I’m old, I can’t go over and talk to the new kids because I, you know, may not understand it or maybe it’s vice versa. And so I do, I I really just appreciate you bringing that up because you’re right, we actually really do need to be talking about that because we are going to look at things different. And we do need to make sure everyone feels that they they belong. Mark Beal: I love first interrupt, sorry, the B word. I love that you brought up belonging two, three times powerful, powerful world. Cause again, you could apply to a company, you get a hired guy to a company, you could say, we’ve got a job here, we’re gonna pay a salary. But ultimately you wanna like belong there. You don’t wanna feel like a cog in the machine. In like, well, I’ve got, I’m part, like you said earlier, I’m having fun. The is good. I’m having fun. If this company <laugh> it’s a belong, belong, belonging is such a powerful word. I love you brought it up. Because it’s it’s powerful and not everybody who might be included, meaning they’ve been offered a job, they work here, they still may not feel they belong. They may be included, right? Cause they’ve been offered a job, they’re getting a salary and they have an office and all that, but they may not feel that belonging. And so I think going back to your point on we’ll call age or ageism, there’s that reverse ageism too, I think where a 21 or 22 year old may get treated like, well that person’s young. They dunno anything. Just put em in the corner. Give them a couple of tasks to do, right? They could have that feeling like, boy, being the young one here, I, you know, I don’t feel like I belong. I feel like they’re treating me like, you know, the child, because I’m the young one. So I think I can see it kind of going both ways. Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it, and this is where I think we should dive into like where do leaders get it wrong or expand on that, where are leaders may be getting this wrong. Because even as you say that I can think of, I have been really, really lucky to work with, I would consider some just amazing Gen Zers. Like I have loved working with all of them. I found them extremely coachable, extremely eager to learn. And yet, and, and I embrace that. I might get a little bit, like, I’ve definitely had those times where I’m like, oh my gosh. Like, okay, all right, well let’s level set this and have that conversation. But I’ve also observed people kind of being like, yeah, you are this annoying little kid. Like go over there. And that makes me feel really bad for them because you see all this untapped potential and interest to want to learn, to, to want to connect. So let’s, let’s dive into it. Where, from your perspective, where do leaders get it wrong? What do Leaders Get Wrong About Gen Z? Mark Beal: Well, I think overall, first there is no one size fits all. So to your point, even though we are all employees of whatever organization, it’s right, we all have come from, again, different backgrounds. We’re part of different life stages, different generations, all those things. So as a leader, it can’t be just a approach. Well this is gonna work for all employees, whatever the initiative, whatever the program is, right? We have to really dive into those different generations and understand where are they in their life stage? Where are they in their careers? What are those aspirations? What are those values, right? It’s fine to say that a Gen Zer has completely different mindset as it comes to work because again, they’re just starting their career compared to someone, again, I’ll say an old Gen Xer, you know, an older Gen Xer who completely different 30 plus years into my career, you know, I’ve got a different set of goals, different objectives over the next five, 10 years compared to that Gen Z. So I think first is just understanding that there are multiple generations. They have different experiences, different backgrounds, different mindset, different objectives, different goals based on where they’re, and part of that, where they’re is, where they’re from an age standpoint. And then the second part, which we kinda talked about earlier, and I believe this wholeheartedly, and I say it all the time, every generation, every individual, no matter, you know, whatever their age, they all bring value to the workplace. Measurable value to the workplace. Again, older generations, more experience, more networks, more success, more this younger generations, more tech savvy, more maybe more entrepreneurial. And so a leader has to recognize that too. And so, again, not to promote the book, but the point of ZEO was, and I say this to companies all the time when they invite me in, you know, empower those recent hires who just started this year or next year or whatever, and empower them as what I call ZEOs. Meaning give them an initiative, a project, a program, a challenge, an opportunity that maybe you, you’ve kinda pushed to the side cause just don’t have time to do it. Well, let them put their minds against, against it. Let them put that entrepreneurial spirit against it. Let them put their tech against it. You might be shocked at what they come back with. Meaning something that could actually help the company drive more business, be more efficient, more effective, more inclusive, more whatever. And so I think that’s the idea too, is like recognize these differences, these different generations and understand that they all bring value, but they also have different objectives, different goals, different mindset, different values, and how can we mobilize them for the greater good of the entire company? There is No One-Size-Fits-All in Any Generation Jenn DeWall: Yes. I love that there’s not a one size fits all. Yes. And how can you leverage the value that they bring? And maybe this is a point to talk about what are some, some of the, and it’s again, we’re not saying cause we know that there are, are stereotypes and everyone has a lived different lived experience. Yes. But in general, you know, you gave one frame of reference that’s helpful to look at, which is what career stage is someone in, right? Yeah. Gen Z is just entering a baby boomer might be retiring or nearing retirement. What are some other indicators that might be helpful for someone to keep in mind that they’re naturally going to come to the table from a different perspective? I guess I even flip here, we haven’t even said the T word yet, which I’m so really surprised by is technology haven’t full technology. Gen Z, they’ve only ever known the internet. Mark Beal: <Laugh>. Exactly. You know, the great quote, which again, not mine, but I wish it was, it was from the CMO of MTV, Jacqueline Parks, GenZ is the first generation that learned to swipe before they wiped– great quote <laugh>. Jenn DeWall: But that’s a great way of understanding how they started their life or connection with technology. I, yeah. Technology and Gen Z Mark Beal: And to your point, so technology has been in their hands since the age of two, three. They embrace technology, they, they welcome and other programs that will make conducting work whatever work it might be more efficient, more effective. Now I think we have millennials usher that in for sure. Think Gen Zs just expedited it, right? But millennials were the first who, you know, kinda put pressure on company, said, Hey, we’ve gotta get up to date with technology here. Like we’re, we’re running, you know, old stuff here. We’ve got, let’s be more faster, more efficient. This, have we tried this? Millennials always give ushered alot of these things. These like Gen Zs baton move maybe a little bit more quickly. But yeah, that’s a good one. Technology’s a great one because again, It can be a, a divider in ways, but if a leader looks at it the right way can, it can bring people together. Cause again, again, I just myself is easiest way to do it can always point to myself as a Gen ZersI not tech savvy. I am not as embracing of technology as a Gen Zer, as maybe a millennial. So that could be an area where in the workplace I’m all a sudden you we’re introducing, I’m making it up. Some sort of new communication technology to come. Well, someone at my age might be adverse to it, might be hesitant, might be nervous, might be concerned, right? Am I able to understand this, can I work this? I may not voice that. Whereas a Gen Zer, you know, within second, this is great, this is gonna help us get work. They’re, they’re already on it. They’re already, they’ve already adopted before the company’s even it play. So you’re right, technology is a big one. The experiences and adoption of technology across generations for sure, especially in the workload. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And I, I think I just, my head goes back to this one video that I had seen that was called Managing Millennials. And it was a parody video making fun of millennials. So I, I was fully here for it. Because as a millennial, I, I get the, the stereotypes and whatnot doesn’t offend me. But one of the things they talked about was they, or they, in the video it was a manager asking someone to do something and they, they said, did you do the research that I asked you to do on Bliss? And it’s like, I googled it and she was like, what? Why did you Google, why did you Google? Like, you know, and I think that, but I also, as a millennial, I am, I’m very tech inept, Mark. Like I am not very smart. And I think of even my grandma who just turned 87, hi grandma, she doesn’t listen to this, but I love you so much. My grandma is incredibly tech savvy. She has, she loves automatic bill pay, like electronic bill pay. She’s got her Facebook account, she has her Alexa, she’s got her Kindle. She has anything that she can get her hands on to make her life easier. She just thinks technology is the coolest thing. And I say that because a lot of people assume that maybe older generations can’t or won’t or don’t have an interest. And I can tell you that my grandma can fully put you down and she’s 87 and she loves all, she does her YouTube exercises of Tai Chi every single morning. She goes on Tai Chi in does chair exercises. She loves what technology brings. Think how many doors that opened for her! Back from retirement, they both used to talk about how they had party lines growing up. Avoid Stereotyping by Generation Mark Beal: Right. We can’t stereotype everybody. We can’t put everyone in the box, right? I think the other thing that you, you hit on there that bridges to an area that right now, every day I’m having conversations about this, and I think it ties into the, we’ll call it the generational differences, is work location, right? So you’ve got companies now that, again, if they’re being led by, we’ll call it boomers and Xers who are used to being in the office, used to going into the office five days a week, comfortable with being in a physical office around people are saying, we gotta get back. We need, you know, back to three days, four days, five days. I just spoke to an executive yesterday whose company back starting this month, five days a week. And her response was I bet there’s gonna be a of people leaving. So that’s, I think a huge issue now and will continue to be, cause one, this is just me. We’re never going back to five days. That’s just me. I don’t, or if they I agree with you or they back, you’ll lose great talent. So I think there’s a generational divide there because again, not be stereotypical, but an old like me feels really comfortable commuting into the office, going into the office, spending hours and hours and hours in the office where a Gen Z said, boy, I just graduated college for two or three of those years. I was never even in the classroom. I did remotely. Right? I can do this remotely. And I had a great conversation two days who is a Gen Zer, two years into her career. And she said, what I love is that those days I don’t have to commute in. And I think she goes in two days a week. She goes, first of all, I’m not wasting an hour each commuting, messing with weather, driving, taking the train, whatever it might be, two during the course of day. I’ve got a break, I can actually go out, walk for 30 minutes. I can’t do that in my office. And all of a sudden I come back recharged refreshed, ready to go. And I will probably do more work longer in the day now because I’ve had that opportunity. So I think is, we’re seeing little bit, especially companies of start and say, okay, we’ve been out long enough, let’s get now three days, four days, five days. Yeah. And again, I think the, the result will be you’re gonna lose great talent who’ll find other companies that are now have completely transformed and transitioned to either five days remote or, you know, we come in when we need to or whatever it might be. Leading Gen Z and the Hybrid Workplace Jenn DeWall: No, I agree with you that I don’t think that we’ll ever go back to five days. I mean, there’s different reasons of why I think it’s beneficial to go into the office, mental health being one, which we should dive into that one. But I can validate what you said. I have a coaching or I have a client that is a director and they recently had forced a mandatory return to office and they did it for, even, they did it for like a, not a long period of time. They just wanted everyone in for like a two month period to work on some big work like big projects. And now they’re finding the aftermath of that, that people are leaving. And when asked, they said that was actually a big factor of why they left. And so we do have to be mindful because people have choices. I know that we might be going into a, you know, a recession and that might change it a little bit here in the U.S. But people will absolutely vote with their flexibility. And we have to be mindful of that because there’s someone else that is willing to give that. But I do think there’s a right way. I also had someone in my, in one of my Crestcom leadership classes this week talk about how their company is doing a they’re doing like a yearlong kind of pilot of a return to office. So it’s not something that they’re like pushing right away. They’re just kind of seeing what they can do. And like ideally their goal would be to get everyone back into the office, but they’re just trying it out for a year to see what they can learn. So it’s not this full, it’s gonna happen. It’s, we’re gonna figure this out, see what works, see what doesn’t, and find that balance and that blend, which I do think there’s a balance with it. I mean I work all the time from home and maybe I get lonely. Like today the tree people are here. Those would be the only people that I would talk to face to face. I mean, I get lonely. I like having a team and I think there’s something to be said about going into office because of mental health and because of connection and why we need that, which I’m kind of into. Workplace Flexibility Will Soon Be the Norm Mark Beal: Yeah. No, I agree with you there. And then we’ll bridge to mental health. I also love test and learn, test and learn. So let’s do it and try it. You are seeing companies try the four day work week, again, 10 years now, I predict there’ll be a lot more companies doing the four day work week. I really do. So that’s one. Two, I’ve talked to some CEOs, and there’s different names for this, but one of them calls it, we offer six weeks of being a digital nomad. Which again goes back to the balance that you talked about. So digital nomad for this company is not vacation time. You’ve got your vacation, but six weeks a year you can go to your favorite mountain, your favorite beach, wherever you want, and work from there. As a company, we know you’re there working, but we also know you’re there enjoying this beautiful area that you like to go and get away from the usual. So we also know to be respectful of your time and we’re not gonna, you know, kind of reach out to you at eight o’clock at night and say, let’s have a conference call. So I love that too. Because it’s kinda a, it’s kinda a hybrid before between my company knows I’m working, I am working, but I’m doing it at a destination where I’m getting away mentally. When the workday’s done, I can now go hike that mountain, that ocean, whatever it might be. So I heard that and I love that. And I worked that into the book too. Cause I get, to me, that goes to the point of view. It just, it’s this idea of balance, right? The balance between working remotely, collaborating in person, getting the chance to escape, go away. I, I think, and I think you just alluded to it, I agree, I work more remotely from this office than I ever worked actually in my other office, even though I put in hours and hours there. But because you know, at 10 at night I can quickly respond to an email or send an email or do this where typically in the old days with the office, you know, once left the office that was, I’m done with the office, now I’m home. And there was transition. And actually if I ever clocked it, I think I probably put more time in now remotely. But I also get the chance, like when we get done here, I might have a chance that I can go out and go get a quick bike ride in or a run in or a walk in. And again, mentally that’ll help me get through my afternoon. Jenn DeWall: Yes. I mean, I can tell you for me personally, I get more done because I don’t have people to talk to. Jenn DeWall: True. I’m not, you know, bugging everyone. Hey, hi. You wanna check in, tell me what’s happening with your weekends? No, true. Yeah. So people are probably more productive without me in an office and I’m definitely more productive. True. Cause I’m not. And I love those things. A Message from Crestcom Crestcom is a global organization dedicated to developing effective leaders. Companies all over the world have seen their managers transformed into leaders through our award-winning and accredited leadership development programs. Our signature BPM program provides interactive management training with a results-oriented curriculum and prime networking opportunities. If you’re interested in learning more about our flagship program and developing your managers into leaders, please visit our website to find a leadership trainer near you. Or maybe you yourself have always wanted to train and develop others. Crestcom is a global franchise with ownership opportunities available throughout the world. If you have ever thought about being your own boss, owning your own business and leveraging your leadership experience to impact businesses and leaders in your community, Crestcom may be the right fit for you. We’re looking for professional executives who are looking for a change and want to make a difference in people’s lives. Learn more about our franchise opportunity on the Own A Franchise page of our website at Crestcom.com. Gen Z and Mental Health at Work Jenn DeWall: All right. Like in rounding it out, you know, mental health has been a big topic as it relates to how our workforce has really changed over the past few years. And I know the pandemic, you know, obviously like really pushed that too. But Gen Z was a big proponent of mental health. And I mean, tell me more about that. You’re, you’re an expert or you know, way more about this than I do, but I really admire what they brought in terms of getting us to finally talk about our flipping feelings that we all have or to, you know, be mindful of that. Mark Beal: I love Jenn that you’re saying that cause that’s exactly what I, that’s exactly how I would position it too. First of all, for Gen Z, mental health is a top, top, top or the top priority and what I call goal setting area, more so than their career development, more so than their financial fitness, more so than even their physical fitness. Mental health is number one, it’s a focus. It’s an area that they want their favorite brands to actually have campaigns around to socialize it more, as you said. And so that’s number one. Number two starting with my class of 22, so last year, that was the first time that I had my students called me and said, Hey, great news. I just got the job. And guess what? They’re giving me mental health days. One a month, one a quarter, whatever it might be. Now maybe the old days we sick days, maybe we called PTO days. We never called them mental health days last or so companies are acknowledging that too, that we all need mental health days. Obviously those companies need to carry that through. I was speaking to group of executive recruiters at a conference and they said, well what, what happens when someone takes mental health days? Well, pretty, they simply send email team hey I need a mental health day, and there should be no pushback on that, on that why you’re, when are you back. And then the follow-up question was, what do they do all day? I said, they do whatever they need to do. Maybe they sit on their couch day, maybe they go for a hundred mile bike ride. It doesn’t matter what its is, they just need time to reset, recharge, all those kinds of things. And so, to your point, I, I think one there’s a combination of things going on, I think from, I’ll call the world of celebrity. The Evolution of Work Life Balance in the Workplace Selena Gomez, Michael Phelps, Simone Biles, Naomi Osaka and others have made this a public discussion and conversation, which has great. So they’ve put a spotlight on it. Simone Biles during the Olympics, Michael Phelps always talks about mental health and Gen Z, as you said, is not afraid to discuss it, not afraid to share it. It’s important to them. So they, they also wanna make this a discussion. So I do think in 10 years, Gen Z will get a lot of the credit for making mental health less taboo, more open, more of an open dialogue. And I do think we’re gonna see a lot more companies making mental health part of advertising, marketing, social media campaigns, again, make it more open. Employers are responding already. One last point, I follow this. October is mental health day each year. This past year, 2022 was the first time I can remember that companies big on the global scale. Large corporations and small agencies of 50 people closed that day. And basically their employees take the day, take the day, you know, take the day, recharge, rest, call a timeout, whatever you have to do. Well, if we get momentum around that, and that becomes something every year plus mental health plus the chance to be a digital nomad, now we’re getting things that goes back to your, your main point. It’s offering balance. So now we’re, we’re getting that more, that work life balance that we’ve been striving for for decades and really haven’t achieved as of yet. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. I just, I want that world. Yeah. That’s like something I am in, I have a mom who is schizophrenic. I have depression myself, and I want a world where we feel comfortable talking about mental health. Yeah. And I think that it’s, you know, anxiety, I have that as well. And I know a ton of people that have anxiety, but you know, I think that organizations are taking that first step. And I love that with the mental health day. Now we just need to equip leaders to actually talk about feelings. And I’m here for it because I, I actually empathize a lot with like baby boomers, you know, lately in my work, I feel like I’m finding older men keep coming to me for coaching because they want to talk about their emotions. Because they have not been able to talk about them before. And they’re like, I don’t know how I’ve been so successful? I, I remember one and he’s very successful. And he’s like, why the heck am I, you know, I’m 49 years old and I am struggling with this. And I think that’s because we have not yet talked about it. And I just collapsed to Gen Z collapsed that like finally giving people permission to have flipping feelings. Mark Beal: That’s it. You know, Jenn, we’re not there yet, but at least we’re slowly getting there. And as you said, at least the dialogue is starting. And and I always say this too, a mental health day may not solve any of this, but it’s, it’s part of this overall conversation overall mindset of mental health is really important. We have to share, talk, discuss and a mental health day just contributes to that again, bigger attempt at at doing that. And like I said, I think in a decade we’re gonna be in a much better place than we’re today. I mean, we have to be, Leaders Can’t Have Blinders On When it Comes to the Transformation of Work Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I just love that world. I’ve loved all the changes. And I know that we have to wrap, but I wanna keep talking about this. Any final thoughts on, you know, tips about how to, you know, bridge those generational gaps? I know that you talked about it’s not a one size fits all, it’s understanding the value. Anything in closing that you feel like you missed that would be beneficial to our audience? Mark Beal: I would just say, I guess, you know, every, I gotta be careful what I say here, but I think everybody, you know, everybody is a leader within the workplace. Some may be leader by years of service, by age, by what they’ve accomplished, all those kinds of things. But I guess we all need to be open-minded, which I think is one of the themes of this conversation to each other. To, to our values, our mindsets, our goals, our objectives, right? We, I guess better word, we just can’t put the blinders on. And leaders, specifically leaders who have the title of leaders, the C-suite, they really can’t have the blinders on. They have to be openminded open to write everything to all generations in the workplace because you said it. And I think 2020 is like the, the line in the sand. We’ve, the workplace has changed drastically since 2020. We’re not going back to a lot of things and we’re only moving forward. And so leaders, to me it’s gotta be about transformation and innovation. Now as far as the workplace employees, your colleagues, all those kinds of things, Jenn DeWall: I love that you just said the transformation and putting that on the C-suites. Because I think that the shift when I entered the workforce, if I didn’t like it, it was like, well bye Jenn, you go have a great career. And today if they don’t like what a leader’s doing, they’re like, bye, have a great company. I’m gonna go to someone else. That is so feel that power shift. And so I think accountability looks different in today’s workplace. Mark Beal: Yeah. Raise power shifted significantly since 2020. We saw it first come to fruition through the great resignation, and I think that was flag better word. I think that was actually great. Because now the employees had the power and as you said, so long, I’ve got another place I’m gonna go where I’m be in a better position, whatever might be. And that also is not going away. Maybe we don’t have the great resignation now anymore. We don’t call that anymore. But I agree with you. The employee is in power now and let’s hope they continue to be in power. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, there Mark again, I could have, I wanted to, I wanna continue this conversation in 25 different ways, but I know that we can’t, so if people want to continue the conversation with you, how can they best get in contact with you? Where to Find More from Mark Beal Mark Beal: Yeah, absolutely. So again, all my, you know, from a book perspective, including z all the books are on Amazon, so easy to find. My website is MarkBealSpeaks.com and if they go there, you know, my email, my contact is there. But also all my you know, media articles, speeches, I’ve done all those great things and always available, always interested, always eager to, to have these kind of conversations. Jenn DeWall: Yes. And you’re, I mean, I’ve worked with you a few times. You’re one, you’re one of Crestcom’s new subject matter experts. We’re so excited to have you in our curriculum. And I can tell you from working, you know, to our audience, from working with Mark, he is incredibly passionate, incredibly knowledgeable. You’re a fantastic speaker. You’d be an asset to anyone that is wanting to further or have these conversations of understanding the generations in the workplace. So Mark Beal Speaks, check him out. Mark, thank you for coming on the show. Mark Beal: Jenn, thank you very much. I love our discussion. Thank You for Listening to The Leadership Habit Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast with Mark. I loved our conversation. Mark is actually one of our newest Subject Matter Experts in Crestcom’s leadership curriculum, talking about how to build generational connections. He is someone that is just so well versed in this. And if you want to learn more about him, you can go to Amazon.com and there you can find Mark’s latest book, ZEO: Introducing Gen Z— The New Generation of Leaders. And you can also purchase his other books. And of course you can find him at markbealspeaks.com. If you want to develop your team, if you want to see Mark’s class! If you want to learn more about how to give your leaders, whether it’s Gen Z or baby boomers or Gen X or millennials, you want to learn how to give them the best tools that they need to succeed, head on over to crestcom.com. There you can find out about our free complimentary monthly webinars. You can also find out more about our complimentary two hour skills workshop and learn more about what Crestcom does to create a world of better leaders. If you enjoyed this episode, share it. And we would also love a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, have a great day everyone. The post Gen Z in the Workplace — What Managers Need to Know, with Mark Beal, Gen Z Expert appeared first on Crestcom International.

Apr 14, 2023 • 38min

How to Create a Breakthrough Strategy with CEO Coach and Author, Patrick Thean

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The Leadership Habit

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Gen Z in the Workplace — What Managers Need to Know, with Mark Beal, Gen Z Expert

How to Create a Breakthrough Strategy with CEO Coach and Author, Patrick Thean

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