The Leadership Habit

Leadership in the Age of AI with IT Architect and Data Scientist, Ivan Portilla In this episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn DeWall welcomes guest Ivan Portilla. Ivan is a Senior IT Architect and Data Scientist with the Cloud and Cognitive Software Group at IBM. He is also a prolific author and speaker, and he is recognized for his innovative work in data science, robotics, and artificial intelligence. Ivan is also a member of the IBM Academy of technology. This episode’s audio is from a webinar that we did recently with Ivan, where he talks about the skills that every organization will need to prepare to embrace AI or artificial intelligence. Enjoy! You can also watch this webinar on YouTube! Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Good morning. Good morning. We are going to get started in a few minutes, talking all about artificial intelligence and closing the skills gap. What we can do as an organization, as a leader, to make sure that we are as prepared as possible for the new requirement of skills that we will have of our employees in the future. I am so excited to have Ivan Portilla with us today. He is going to share valuable insight on what we can do. I know that you’re going to appreciate this conversation, plus you won’t hear me talk the whole time, which is probably great for some of you that have attended ours. So I’m going to go ahead. It is 9:00 AM Denver time, which means that it is time to go. We are starting out by talking about artificial intelligence, and one of the important things to think about as we do this as more and more artificial intelligence is entering the world more and more emotional intelligence must enter into leadership, AI, artificial intelligence, or AI as it’s commonly known is something that we can’t ignore. And it’s something that we need to be very attentive to as leaders to know how we are skilling our workforce to prepare for these changes that artificial intelligence will bring. It’s not something that’s just resigned to a room where a data scientist reads out your data. It’s something that we all needed to be a part of. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about today with Ivan. For those that don’t know me, I’ll just be your host today. My name is Jenn DeWall, and I am a Leadership Development Strategist and facilitator for Crestcom. You can always email if you email me if you have questions or connect with me on LinkedIn, but I’m so excited to be bringing you, Ivan. For those that are unfamiliar with, Crestcom just a very brief overview. We’re a global leadership development organization that focuses on developing managers into leaders. And today’s topic is one of the things that’s going to be very important for you as a leader. You need to understand soft skills. So without further ado, let me go ahead and introduce the man that will be hearing from Ivan Portilla, who is a data scientist with IBM edge consulting. He’s an author, a speaker, and is recognized for his innovative work in machine learning, artificial intelligence, and robotics. Ivan is also a member of the IBM Academy of technology. And today, Ivan will be talking about how you can upscale or prepare your workforce with the skills that they need to lead in the age of AI. Ivan, I’m going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen. So then you can go ahead and start, but Oh my gosh. Cause we’ve, you’ve just had so much to share. So go ahead and start your screen share here, Ivan. And again, everyone can throw in where they are from in the chat. I know Ivan would love to see where you’re from as well, but Ivan, the floor is yours. Ivan Portilla: Okay, perfect. And hello, everyone. I’m going to share something on the chat. If you’re looking in your Q&A bubble there, I’m going to share a link to the report that we’re going to be using for this talk. So I’m going to share my screen now, and please let me know, Jenn if you can see? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, there we go. Perfect. Meet Ivan Portilla, a Data Scientist Pushing AI to the Edge Ivan Portilla: Perfect. Excellent. So before it started IBM legal team asked me to say this, this is my view, my opinions, not of my employers. So this is a typical disclaimer that you seen in many, many talks. So with that, let’s talk about the topic today. We’re going to be talking about closing that skills gap on the enterprise, using artificial intelligence. We’re going to share some strategies and some results from a multi-year study. Again, the link is there, and it’s also on the chat, and here’s my contact information. So I’d love to hear from you. I’m part of a team of data scientists on the IBM Edge Computing Team. I’m in charge of pushing AI to the edge. So with that, let’s get this started. Perfect. So our agenda for today will be very simple. We’re going to focus on four areas. We’re going to talk about the importance of skills and talent in the organization. We’re going to see some of the challenges people are currently going through with skills acquisition and skills lifetime. And then, most importantly, the impact of intelligent automation. How is artificial intelligence impacting the skills shoulders in your organization? And then we’re going to close with some strategies, some recommendations from the authors of this study to close that skill gap using AI. So a very simple agenda. So with that, let’s get started. The Importance of Skills and Talent in the Age of AI So, what would you say is the main differentiation between a $2 trillion company and Average Joe startup? Not the multi-billion circle building or the release of brand new gadgets every year. It is the skills that they are going to have to innovate and thrive in the marketplace. And these skills are feeding the global economy. They are creating new opportunities. When they go into a particular location, they are bringing talent, high talent to that location. They’re paying taxes; they’re creating better infrastructure. Currently, it’s interesting to see with this global pandemic, the migration to other zones. Now that people can work remotely from home. That again, skills are fueling the global economy. And when we talk to these technology leaders, the CEOs from thousands of companies in dozens of industries and multiple regions and countries. The Need for Soft Skills in the Age of AI We’ve noted several important key factors here that not only technical skills are important. Now we’re seeing people’s skills or soft skills are gaining importance in these organizations. Particularly this out-performance in these organizations. They place skills as the foundation to grow and to innovate. They’re going to new markets areas, and they’ve put a lot of emphasis on investment in a shortage of new skills in their organizations. However, this skill shortage has been remediated with hiring and training, but that’s not enough. Unfortunately, they cannot get all the skills they need. So we are coming up with the ways to gain those, particularly the soft skills, the behavioral skills, and organizations are doing two things. One thing is they are tapping into the new career employees. Usually, people in the thirties, forties that have been with the company 10, 20 years, and they’re going to retrain these new career workers to gain the behavioral skills, the soft skills to innovate. However, we also developed a program at IBM, and our former CEO, Ginni Rometty, called it “new-collar” jobs. And these are jobs that will require more than a high school diploma, but not necessarily a college degree. There are certain skills— like web design or cybersecurity— that a community college or some additional experience path high school can teach those skills. So we created a program that we call Pathways to Technology and early college in high school.  With this program, we train students entering high school, which in the US is ninth grade. In six years after ninth grade, which means high school plus two additional years in a community college, they can get an associate degree, and they can get hired by companies like ours. And we’re currently in 24 countries, and we are working with 2200 school partners and additional 200 college partners to educate these kids on the P-TECH program. That’s something that I’m personally involved in. I’m a volunteer and a mentor here in Colorado, and I teach a weekly class on data in AI to these kids. And it’s interesting to see a brand new perspective of a high school student and grasp the complexity of this topic. And I strongly recommend you to check out that website, ptech.org, and at the mission to train these students. We also open up a new infrastructure of learning, and this is free digital content in areas that we believe are important in the marketplace right now. So you can go ahead and enroll. Here’s the URL (ptech.org). There are classes in cybersecurity and data science and professional skills, even artificial intelligence. And you will earn certificates, or what we call at IBM “badges” that tell us that you have taken the class and completed the requirements successfully. So both of those strategies are being used to help close that skill gap. Here’s an example this summer, we had a “hackathon” as part of the COVID-19 effort in our company, in my students. And we came up with the idea of connecting students with senior citizens in adult care centers through correspondence. So they will write letters to the senior citizens. But we were able to match them using a personality API in the IBM data and AI portfolio. So we analyzed the way they write and were able to match compatible personalities through this tool. And that was very interesting to see the students come up with the idea, develop the algorithm, and apply it to be able to connect several schools in the area with senior adult centers. So that was a very impressive effort. The Need for an Agile Mindset Now let’s talk about what the executives are considering are the soft skills and behavioral skills important to them. So in this survey from 2016 to 2018, we noticed a very interesting trend. If you see in blue, those are the soft skills or behavioral skills. And notice that the most important one that in 2018 was this agility, this willingness to be flexible, to adapt to change. And you can see down nowadays with the pandemic. How can you promote a connection with your team while remote working? Also, they consider time management, not needing to be supervised, to prioritize workability, to work with a multi-diversity environment. And that’s very important because right now our nation, we see all these. It’s happening now with race. Working with people who are different minorities from different cultural backgrounds is very important for them. And also the ability to speak up. I try to, you know, in my class, encourage my students to present, to develop those communication skills, both oral and written. So notice the shift in what executives considered important. So those skills from 2016 to 2018, so a lot of emphasis on those soft skills. Now, when they look at what is the criteria for successful innovation. Again, soft skills make the top of it on the list. Working as a team, be able to be flexible, how to demonstrate strong leadership. And none of these is usually taught in a formal class. This is something that you gain with experience. And that’s what is so important to us to take these very young students and be able to share with them what a real working environment looks like. The Half-Life of Learned Skills is Shrinking Now, let’s talk about the challenges of those skills. This is the second area that I want to share from this study. What do you think are today’s challenges with skills? So the employers shared with us, and these statistics are well documented on the white paper. The interesting thing here is that in typical organizations, about half the employers say they cannot find the skills they need. And if you go to larger organizations, they go almost two thirds. They cannot find the skills they need to be successful in the marketplace. And the reason they say is that the candidates don’t have the required experience or they have to retrain and reskill to be competitive, to be relevant in the marketplace. Some of the other metrics in this slide, we believe— or they believe— by 2030, there will be a shortage of about 85 million people with those skills. So, one of the reasons that we have these challenges with skills is something called the half-life of a skill. And what this means is how long it will take for your skills to become obsolete, or half of your skills to be obsolete. And this is being noticed that currently, it’s about five years. So think about that. You went to school; you went to college, you went to a training facility. In about five years, your skills will be half relevant. So that’s a huge impact compared to a few years ago when the half-life of your skills would be something more like a decade or 15 years. So that’s a huge impact on being relevant in the workplace. Now, not only that, the half-life for the skill is in jeopardy—also the time to gain the skill. I remember a few years ago, if I needed to gain a new skill, I would go to class for four or five days, and I’ll be proficient in that particular skill. Nowadays, if I want to learn a new skill, it will take you more like 40 days, like two months almost. And this is also because of the depth of the skill. Skills have become very specialized. Like if I wanted to get a data science skill, I need to learn math. I need a math program and need to know communication and so on. And also because of the skills that are necessary today are also soft skills. Skills that you need to grow in an environment that you can’t learn in a traditional classroom education or virtual education. So this is the impact of that. And in fact, only 41% of organizations say that they have the skills that they need to be successful in the marketplace. So almost half of the organizations have the skills they need to be successful. That’s a huge gap in the skills that they need right now. How will Intelligent Automation Change the Workforce? The third topic into something very close to what I do every day at work is what is called intelligent automation. That can be both a good thing, creating an opportunity and a challenge in showing you a picture of what I like robots that I work with. It’s called Pepper. Pepper is a humanoid robot rated by a Japanese company, SoftBank Robotics, that we have taken to different environments like a hotel concierge, or banks, or retail. And let me tell you a little bit about intelligent automation. So the impact of intelligent automation is that it’s going to improve the processes, business processes and provide consumers users with personalized experiences as well and enhancing decision-making. Unfortunately, there is also an impact from that intelligent automation, and this is not new. We have had automation for thousands of years. We have, this is what it’s called the fourth industrial revolution. We also have the steam-engine, electricity, changing industry, and agriculture that have had a lot of automating throughout history. But the reason that intelligent automation is more critical is that it’s using advances in artificial intelligence where machines can learn from data. They don’t have to be explicitly programmed to produce those predictions or recommendations. It has a positive impact. And here are some of the areas that we have been working in my company. I have been involved in financial fraud detection. For example, a few years ago, I worked with a large credit card bank. And we were dealing with about 60,000 transactions for a minute. Imagine being able to approve or disapprove a transaction. And if we get a lot of false positive, the merchant is losing money. The credit card company is losing money. And most importantly, you have a frustrated consumer. I also work with manufacturing on edge computing. We are putting AI closer to where the data is captured. So we’re detecting, for instance, in a manufacturing line, where there is a defective part, we can detect it right there before it goes into a car and you get a bad experience as a consumer. So we’re pushing AI to the edge. We are also working with transportation right now. Particularly with the law of demand in air travel. We’ll help several airlines predict when travel will recover, and then they will be able to be prepared for that. So these are some of the areas that we were working with artificial intelligence. The Positive Impact of Intelligent Automation This is why businesses share with us. That is important—the positive impacts of intelligent automation. One of the areas I want to highlight here, one of the metrics, is the increase in insights for data. So every day, we produce about 2.5 quintillion bytes of data. This is about 2.5 exabytes of data. In most of these data, we call it dark data. About 80% of that data is not being processed, right there. It’s locked in silos of unstructured data. So how do you count a thumbs up? Or how do you count videos? How do you analyze all that data? And I also want to point out that it is improving worker productivity. So at IBM, we don’t say artificial intelligence. We switched the acronym. We said it’s “Intelligence, Augmented.” We are freeing up the humans to do higher-level thinking, apply what humans are good at, such as creativity and innovation. Some of the areas are reporting organizational capabilities expansion and improved productivity, but there is a significant impact on the workforce. About two-thirds of people will require new roles and reskilling that they know exist today. For instance, have you ever heard the term robotic psychology? To be able to understand why your smart speakers recommended you something? That’s something of that nature, and there’s progress in robotics and automation that will require new skills in the next five years. So let me give you some specific metrics, what those mean. So when we did the study, they shared that in the 12th largest economies, about three and a half percent of jobs will be displaced or redeployed. And what that means is about 6 million jobs will be replaced by intelligence automation. So that’s a huge impact on those people losing their jobs. And if we look broader, we believe that I’m about 120 million people in the largest economy would need to have to be reskilled or retrained in the next three years with intelligence automation. And the reason for that, if you think about it, it’s about the economies of the labor force from Brazil and Canada combined, and all of that, because intelligence automation is making easier to personalize processes, improve productivity and give you enhanced decision capabilities. So there are real potential and real challenges here with intelligence automation. One of my favorite books, AI Superpowers by Kai-Fu Lee, talks about this representation of what type of jobs are in danger, and what kind of jobs will a robot take my job? He shows you a quadrant of how safe a job is compared to other jobs, and it is based on whether that job in a structured or unstructured environment. So he has these safe zones. So jobs that have a higher social interaction like your hairstylist is, or your physical therapist, or your counselor. They live in a very unstructured environment that they will be safe from this intelligence automation. And then he has a danger zone where there is a lot of repetition. There’s very little contact with people like this watch or a truck driver that have the highest risk of being displaced by intelligence automation. And they have these two other zones, the human veneer, where even though you have a very structured, repeatable job, you have a lot of social interaction. That makes your job still safe. And there’s an area he calls slow creep, where even though you have high contact, you have a highly structured environment, which eventually will become the danger zone. So now, let’s look at what executives are expecting of this impact on events— prepared for events—like intelligent automation. So in this chart, it shows in two colors what they believe is important for the effect of intelligence automation and how nations are preparing for that. So that’s the culture in the state. For instance, they have that developing science, technology, engineering, and math skills, they believe it’s 40%, but only 54% of the countries are preparing for that area. And we have others like promoting connectivity or providing reskilling. So it’s not just the responsibility of the employer. But also the nations and organizations that need to be prepared for these skills shortages. How Can We Close the AI Skills Gap? Let’s talk about the main area of my presentation. How do we close that skills gap using artificial intelligence and some of the recommendations of this study? Again, we frame it as a national and regional challenge, helping with the industry or the enterprise, but the individual is also responsible. You are responsible for the up-skilling or reskilling of your skills. So these organizations know that they need to act, that there’s going to be a skill shortage. And unfortunately, half of the organizations are doing nothing to retrain you. Very few are retraining in one or two skills, and that’s a huge gap. So if the organization is not helping you, it is pushed to the individual or the regional coordination to close that skill gap, which has been worrisome. So the study proposed three areas that we can use artificial intelligence to close that gap in skills at the center of these strategies. And we divided up into three areas. We call the first one, “make it personal.” The second one, “turn up the transparency” of those skills and then reach out outside of your organization. So let me go into every single one of these areas with that example or how we can close the skill gap using artificial intelligence, this, that we didn’t make it personal. So I’m going to start with my own company. In IBM, we opened up the transparency and personalization of your skill, reskilling, and training. And personalization is important to us. Imagine when you go to a movie site, and you want to see a particular movie or particular genre, you want the tools to predict what you’re going to watch or what are you going to buy on a commercial website. Personalize Your Training and Reskilling So personalization also works with the companies. They want to personalize what skills are needed in the marketplace, what gaps do they have? So when I log into this website, the internal website for my learning, my employer is providing me a roadmap that is telling me, based on your experience and based on the market needs, these are the skills that you need that will make you successful and will make the company successful. Today, 8 out of 10 employees have the skills they need to be successful compared to 3 out of 10 as of let’s say five years ago. So that’s the transparency and personalization strategy. The second one is to “turn up the transparency.” So we have an example here, a larger telecommunication company in the US, AT&T. In 2015, they opened up to all the employees and said, this is what we need to be successful in the marketplace. And look at what jobs are in high demand compared to jobs that we believe are going to become obsolete in the next few years. And they crafted a curriculum based on that strategy. They say, for you to be successful in our company, and make our company successful in the marketplace, these are the gaps that we would like you to take on. These are the skills we would like you to learn. So they open up, they work with massive online companies like Udacity and a local university. And they created this curriculum for the employees, and that was the transparency. Be open about what they need and what they want you to learn based on market needs. And the third one (look inside and out) is very interesting because every company thinks that they can do this on their own. So we have here a company called CEMEX, a global cement, and heavy construction company. They partnered with us, and we put together— in a university— put together a program for digital transformation. And they established a digital hub in Monterey, Mexico, to grow these skills with industry partners. And they used the universities. We use online learning like Coursera and Udacity, and they create this curriculum. So not a single company can do this work alone. They need to expand both internal and external learning to reach and close these skill gaps. So to recap, to close that skill gap: make it personal, customize the learning to your individual needs, and your company needs. Open up, be transparent, create recognition, tell your employees what the market needs are, and then look inside and outside of your company to find those skills. So with that, this is the link to the study: The enterprise guide to closing the skills gap. Thank you very much to the authors for bringing this wonderful study. And with this, let’s open it up for questions and answers. Yes? Live Q & A with Ivan Portilla Jenn DeWall: All right. Let’s hear Q & A. So, so much of that white paper for those that maybe joined late, what Ivan just presented was based on findings that IBM found from a multi-year global survey. And there’s a lot of data in there. I would definitely recommend checking it out and just seeing what you can learn because it is pretty glaring. To know that half of the executives surveyed feel like their organizations are not pursuing anything to close the skills gap. So we need to be mindful that what we are doing or what we’re not doing today could essentially pull us back. But go ahead. If you have questions for Ivan, I’m going to start with a few, but if you have questions for Ivan, his role in AI, how he supports IBM, anything regarding what we talked about with the white paper, go ahead and throw that in the chat. Ivan, if you want to stop sharing your screen, you can absolutely do that. And, but just know that Ivan Ivan’s contact information is there. It’s IvanP@us.ibm.com. And if you want to find him on Twitter, it’s @IPortilla, or you can connect on LinkedIn. So things to consider is that by 2030, from this white paper, by 2030, the global talent shortage could reach more than 85 million people. So the issue is not necessarily a shortage of workers, but it’s a shortage of workers with the right skill. Ivan, to be specific, what are some of the skills that you see as essential for leaders today? What Skills are Essential for Leaders in the Age of AI? Ivan Portilla: One area that I believe is critical is agility. To be able to adapt to change and particularly what is called agile learning. So we want to create a culture of lifelong learning. Everything that you learn in school, in college, will be obsolete, as we saw, in 5-10 years. So you need to keep yourself current. What are the upcoming trends that I’m going to be good at, or I find interesting? How can I improve my skills in those areas? How can I communicate well with others? So not only the technical skills but also the soft skills, how can I work with people from other cultures? How can I adapt to change? How can I be flexible and react to these, for instance, this pandemic how can I work from home successfully, be my own boss, be successful in that area? Will Data Replace Oil as the Most Important Natural Resource? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. It is connecting with others. You know, I think when we think, or when I think before I kind of got into understanding this subject, Is that artificial intelligence lends itself to more data or analytical skills. Whereas it does lend itself to understanding how are you communicating? Artificial intelligence is going to give you data, but you’re going to share that data. You’re likely also going to transcend cultural borders. You need to understand how to work with different people. You need to, you know, from the analytical perspective, yes, you need to know how to look at the data. However, you also need to understand how to make the right decisions with that data. One interesting thing that I gained from that whitepaper is that data has been referred to as the new natural resource. An article from The Economist goes as far as saying, it’s going to replace oil as the world’s most valuable resource. How do you explain that, Ivan? That is a bold claim, if I’ve ever heard one,  that it’s the new natural resource. Ivan Portilla: Yes. So none of these AI technologies works without data. So it is all based on the data that you use to train and to train these machine learning models. So no data, no intelligence, no predictions, no decision-making. So being able to control that data is so critical that a lot of companies are giving you services for that data. For instance, they give you an email for free, or they give you social media for free. So you can communicate with your peers and your family and friends, but because the data that you generate is so important to them to predict trends, to find needs in the marketplace, that that data is the differentiator. And this is an important point because when you sign up for a service via social media, movie, anything, remember that terms and conditions document, you are giving away your data to this company. And you’re deciding what companies will be successful in the marketplace. So if you give it to company A, company B will not get your data, and it will be no deprecating. They will not be able to compete with a larger company. So you are decided each day when you use those social media recommendations, even clicks on our website, you are deciding what companies will succeed in the marketplace by giving them your data. The second thing is that data has a lot of implicit bias, and I believe that can be a topic around follow-up conversation. Then when we look at what is causing all these predictions to go towards prejudice or go to racial profile, and it goes to discrimination, and it all goes back to this data was used to train those models. So we need to be very transparent on the data that we use, the machine learning algorithms that we use to train the data to justify a decision. So that’s important. And the third thing I want to emphasize is that as we solve with the economies of scale. With the data, you will have less and less competition. So you will have one social media, one email company, one search engine because they have a monopoly on the data. So that’s a good point to consider. How Can Small and Medium Businesses Personalize Learning? Jenn DeWall: I think even the awareness that data has become this form of currency. Every company wants it because they can use it to identify and predict your behaviors to help them understand how to offer a service. Change something else that they’re doing—but understanding that they’re always harvesting that data and how it may be used. So we do need to pay attention to how we’re using it. But I also love that you brought up that bias because I think we may put bias into our artificial intelligence and be unaware. And I want to talk about that. And then I want to go to a question that we got, but how do you, we’re actually, I’m going to jump into the question because I think that this will be helpful. So we got the question that came in, which asked, “ what should small and medium businesses in the US focus on to ‘make it personal’ or practice transparency and reach out? Other than working with our organization, like what can small and medium businesses in the US, focus on to make it more personal with their organizations?” Ivan Portilla: Yes. And I believe that this has to do with the three areas presented on the slides to make it personal, be transparent, and reach out. So this study came from serving a lot of organizations, some small, some large, but to make it personal, don’t assume that every role in your small organization has the same learning needs. You need to tailor that learning based on people’s skills, regions, geographical location, also opportunities that you will see in the marketplace. So when we helped this large chemical company redesign their learning materials, or in roadmaps, we went through all these different inputs, and we use AI to gather each personal station. We use content filtering, collaborative filtering, and we’re able to use the data that they have in-house and data from similar companies. We’re able to combine that data to have a more personalized experience. Now, being transparent in a small or medium company, I think is easier than in large companies. They care less about business politics. The CEO can sometimes be seen in shipping or might be helping in the kitchen or whatever. So they are more reachable. There are fewer barriers to talk to your leadership team, and these leaders need to be transparent. They say, look, our industry is in crisis, for instance, right now in the pandemic. But we think we will, and we can go to these other areas. We can be. We need to be transparent. If we do this in other areas, how can your skills be retrained to help us be successful in that area? And then we can look inside and out. There are tons of, of like open-source organizations, chambers of commerce, local meetups that you can tap to gain those skills in that direction that you lack as a small and medium business. How are Organizations Embracing AI in the Workplace Today? Jenn DeWall: Where do you start, if you’re thinking about not only up-skilling your workforce, but maybe even just incorporating artificial intelligence into your organization, what are some places that you see organizations starting to embrace AI? Ivan Portilla: I will say that the start is a set of data. Where do you think you are today? Send surveys within your organization and gather that data. And compare those results to some of the areas that we mention in the study. Like what are your soft skills? What do you think is critical for your organization, what are some of the technologies that will impact your business, and then reach out. Reach out to these local organizations, these meetups, these local learning colleges, and high school, like these tech programs. Contact the leaders and say, Hey, I have this baseline. I want to be here. How can I close that gap? What about Bias in AI? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. Get out there. Survey people and figure out what you could be missing. So I want to go back to that question about bias, because one example, I talked to another thought leader within the AI space, and her name is Sarah Alt. She spoke about what inspired her to get into AI. And it was when she noticed a problem when the organization that she worked for leveraged an applicant tracking system tool. So the story that she told is this. She was looking to fill a position. HR had given her a stack of resumes. She looked through them and decided they weren’t necessarily a good fit. And so she went back to HR and asked if she could get or repost that job. And then within the hour, HR came back with a stack of resumes, and she said, where did these come from? And HR responded,  “well, they came from the ones that were automatically rejected from our applicant tracking system.”  And when she asked the question, well, what did you use to determine to kick these out? They didn’t know. And I feel like that’s where we could have a bias or just that our own, I guess, lack of understanding of how AI works can really hurt us or just push us further away. Can you talk about how that bias can show up how they can minimize that bias? Ivan Portilla: Yes. And before I answer that particular question, let me give you a little bit of context. Okay. Within artificial intelligence, which is intelligence demonstrated by machines, there’s a field called machine learning. And machine learning, as I mentioned, is using data to train those statistical models and be able to come up with our recommendation: either classification or a number, a prediction. So within machine learning, there’s another subfield. So I think this of this like the babushka, stacking Russian dolls. AI machine learning, and then deep learning and deep learning, is all in favor nowadays. It has achieved significant results in certain areas, such as visual recognition and speech detection. And it’s kind of modeled after how the brain works, that you have these input layer and this output layer. And in between, you have this series of hidden layers that does the deep learning; unfortunately, with deep learning, most of the learning is a black box. So you have inputs. These are the features, the characteristics that you want to train your model. And this is the prediction, either a classification? A true or false or span or no span? Or a prediction? What is the price of my house? Or do I need to hire this person? Or whatever. So with deep learning where the suffering of bias because most of the algorithm is a black box, and it’s not being exposed to the users. So not only on hiring but also on the legal system, certain algorithms are recommending more jail time for people of certain races. Or even in schools that are denying school applicants to enroll in a particular school based on their race or socioeconomic capabilities. Or even in my job, I have to use a similar tool to determine the pay raises and job evaluations. So if we don’t understand the algorithms, then we are very liable to bias. So how do we avoid bias there? So we need to be very transparent of what data they use. What algorithms are used to train those models, and what are the expected results. But the data that is being used to train these models can have some implicit bias. And I can give you a good example. For instance, in my class, I say, okay, everyone draw a shoe. So everyone in the presentation here draws a shoe. About 80 to 90% of the people will draw a male shoe like a business shoe. And very few people will draw a tennis shoe or a high-heel shoe. That’s already biased in the input side, implicit bias. And you didn’t think about it, but it’s already present in your data. So if you use that data and I, and I use stat models to show up like a sandal, you will give me a wrong answer because the data that was used to train the model is already biased, and then you have other types of bias. So one of the efforts that we have in IBM is to open up all these technologies, and we make a couple of open sources. So we have several resources that I will share with you later. And you can share with the attendees where you can see what the variables that are causing my model to reject or approve that loan is? Or what is the impact of real data has on the accuracy of the model three months from now. Because when I train my model, I have this data, but when I put it into production at the end of that account for the pandemic, I didn’t account for all these external forces. So you can retrain that model. So I will share those resources with you. What is AQ and Why Is It Important? Jenn DeWall: That is so interesting. You know, that that’s a very, I think, easy example to understand that if the programmer is thinking of a male business shoe if you will, that it will directly affect the AI because it’s not accounting for the different shoes. And that’s a very easy way to understand that we might see things differently. And based on how we see things, if we’re the one that is the originator, you know, based on how we see it, we’re not incorporating a diversity of thought, or making sure that other people are in that conversation, that’s when bad decisions can happen. Or, you know, even talking about the bias, knowing that there can be bias built into these algorithms that can make consequences worse for someone else, not offer the same opportunities to the next person. And these are really serious things, and leaders need to understand. And I think this is where going back to that initial quote; emotional intelligence is so important to artificial intelligence. You need to be able to think about it from a broader perspective. I remember in the white paper, they talked about something called AQ, which was what does AQ mean again? And I do have another question that I’m going to get to Ivan Portilla: It is the ability to adapt to change that Adaptability Quotient. So you have AQ and EQ. Now we think another one important quality that is important is how well do you react to change? How will AI Affect Leadership Development and Education? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. When we’re thinking about hiring people, or we’re thinking about who can be, who has the right skill set, one of the foundational things is, are they going to be able to handle change? Maybe it’s looking at their organization right now and saying, how well did everyone handle this dramatic shift into a remote space or adjustment to our strategic initiatives? So question what, what changes happen to the training and coaching industry due to AI robotics and machine learning? Because I know that those are typically ones where you might see them and sorry if I’m getting this wrong, but they are soft-skill driven. They are generally live. How do you see AI impacting that space? How do you see what changes will happen in that industry of coaching and training due to AI, robotics, and machine learning? Ivan Portilla: Yes, those are very good questions. Now, one area that we have seen in professional training is how we can better target learning to a particular individual’s needs. So like I was saying, not all training fits all. Now we know who’s the smarter person in the class, who is the person that needs additional time to complete their assignment. Who is the person I call it, tourist students that just come to the class to mingle with other students or to be away from the office? So we now have more visibility because we can now track individual learning paths. So that’s one impact that we’ve seen. And the other one is what I call the unknown unknowns, things that I don’t know, I don’t know. AI will expose those areas. It will say this is an area that you don’t know that you don’t know, but it will be a good area based on your experience, or the market needs to go into. So those are two places that I see an impact. Jenn DeWall: How do you see it? I want to take that one step further because in talking about the new collar. So there’s clearly a disruption to the education system that will happen as a result of AI. I know, I think, you know, Google last week just really announced its formal certificate program where you can just go and get a certificate with their hopes that that certificate will then be the thing that you need. And that employers will recognize that as you know, a sign of completion, a symbol of that skillset, and that’s going to save, I know for me, that’s going to, if I were going back to college today and had the option to do certificates, that would save so much in student loan debt and so much time, but how do you see it really disrupting the way that the education system works? Ivan Portilla: It is, it is huge. And like I mentioned, in our P-TECH program, imagine graduating from high school, going to an associate college for two years, and getting an associate degree that makes you employable right away without going through that four-year college. So that’s a huge impact. So we see these pockets of specialized skills and this market gap. So we can have a win-win situation. Shorten the education learning to get you right into the working environment, out of high school. And I was going to mention another area that we’ve seen success is these interactions. Sometimes we have created these kinds of like a chatbot or a self-service tool that will help you, the resources that you need quickly to complete the training. So that will free up the time of the educator to be able to focus on high-value activities, such as one on one conversations or, or, you know, exploring opportunities for growth. So that’s one area. How Can AI Improve Online and On-Demand Training? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. That’s, we’ve got a few more questions that are coming in. How do you see online or on-demand training changing with AI? I mean, I know if you’re, you know, what even incorporating the chatbox feature, how do you see it changing? Ivan Portilla: We, we, we will see becoming more engaging, having these AI tools talk with you. We use them, so it’s not like, okay, go and look, what’s this video in and answer these five questions. These AI tools will be able to have a natural language conversation with you. And poke and find the weak areas and then provide an alternative learning path that will help you close those gaps in your knowledge, as well as exposing new things, new technologies that you were not aware of that can have a potential impact on your learning. Jenn DeWall: Ivan, do you think— and maybe this is my scared curiosity— but do you think that training with AI could also do something as simple as I’m in a conversation it’s recorded and observed, and then it will tell me what I did well, what I didn’t do well, and then give feedback to me?  Do you see that as being something? Ivan Portilla: Yes. However, as we mentioned earlier, watch out for that bias. Always have those critical thinking skills and challenge whatever feedback you get from this automated intelligence. What are the Ethical Implications of AI? Jenn DeWall: Well, that is, that is very mind-blowing to me to think that, you know, real, that real-time feedback with AI of how that can be used, how you even go about, you know, harvesting that data. That’s just so interesting to see that we can have that. It is also really great if a system could understand what these skills look like when done well. Assuming there’s not bias. Getting feedback from that system versus input from someone that doesn’t understand what that’s supposed to look like, but has a brief understanding and then provides feedback. So then you might learn bad behaviors as a result of that. That’s again, obviously the question of bias, and then the question of ethics comes into play, and we’re going to be talking about ethics, too, in tomorrow’s webinar. But ethics, how or what role do you see ethics playing in artificial intelligence? Because I know we talked about soft skills, and there is a question about the skills that leaders need to develop themselves in their managers. What skills are most relevant for AI when you think about ethics and these new challenges that are going to come in, and let’s go back to that first question, what skills do we need to make sure that we have as leaders and that we’re building in our team right now? Ivan Portilla: Yes. And this is another critical area on AI because we have all of these points of conversation. We think of things in the future, right? Something that we have seen in movies, you know, we, we talk about the Terminator and all the bad AI. But in fact, today, we are programming ethics into our AI algorithms. Let me give you an example. We work with a large car manufacturer in Europe. We have to program into the self-driving car how to decide when somebody’s running in front of you to either hit the person or make a right turn into an abyss and kill the driver. Or make a left turn and collide with an upcoming car and killing all the people in that car. We have to make that decision. And it was a very tough, ethical decision to make. So this is happening today. Imagine when we have AI-enabled soldiers or drones, dropping bombs in areas based on the pictures you share in social media. So it’s a very important area that a lot of companies are working on it. There’s an organization called Open AI that has funded all these efforts. And these will take us another hour to go. So know the implications of ethics on AI. Jenn DeWall: Yes. Well, and even thinking about that, but yes, a self-driving vehicle will have a range of choices that someone will have to choose. What choice is the best, given the situation. And that’s difficult. I don’t know if I’d want to be the person making that decision. That’s pretty heavy. And I love this— Derek commented, “Going back to that question about how AI can give you feedback, not even about how you answer, but think about the expression on your face, your body movements and all of that.” Maybe they’ll say, Jenn, you use way too many hand gestures or you need to smile more because people think that you’re upset. That’s just so interesting. It’s, you know, Ivan, I know that we’re wrapping up, and you did have some resources to share. So if you want to go ahead and share your screen again, you can talk through some of those resources and then I’ll wrap it up. Or do you want to talk about those resources? Whatever works for you, but I know you’ve done your due diligence to help everyone further their learning by providing these resources. Recommended Reading to Learn More about AI Ivan Portilla: Yes, I will send the link to you to post on the video when we publish it. And I just wanted to share some of the books that I’ve been reading lately. So I’ll share again, So I strongly recommend this book, Rebooting AI, really informative and eye-opening. It’s particularly around bias in these AI Superpowers because sometimes we have our own bias, and we always look at, from the US or western hemisphere point of view. We also have to see it from, you know, Eastern cultures as well. So all of those books are highly recommended. You have my contact information, my Twitter handle. So I will love to hear back from people what they think about this presentation? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, well, Ivan, I know that I enjoyed it. I think I’m nervous. I’m excited about what AI is. It’s just; there is so much that we don’t know about how we’re going to leverage it. And so it’s a little bit, I don’t, there’s just, it’s new to me, I think. And I’m excited. I’m excited to see how we can leverage it, how it can make us better individuals. I’m going to go ahead and just wrap this up, but Ivan, yeah. Going back to everyone, Ivan shared his contact information. It’s also on the screen. Connect with him, ask him questions. If you want the white paper, we will be sharing that. It’s also at the top of the chat from this webinar, but we will be sharing that because it’s a great read. Jenn DeWall: I promise you it’s going to stimulate a lot of thought. Ivan,  I know that you’ve got people thinking differently about how we even need to start making changes today to talk about artificial intelligence and how our workforce needs to be prepared or have those skill sets. This is so essential. And again, going back to one of those statistics that they share. 50% of executives aren’t doing anything about this. Or if they are, it just lives in the land of hiring and trying to hire for that right skill. Instead of thinking about how we need to be developing our current workforce to make sure they’re ready. Ivan, thank you so much for sharing with us today. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the leadership habit podcast. If you liked today’s episode, go ahead and find Ivan Portilla on LinkedIn and connect with him. And if you liked it, share it with your friends. And don’t forget to write us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service.   The post Episode 39: Leadership in the Age of AI with IT Architect and Data Scientist, Ivan Portilla appeared first on Crestcom International.

Understanding Common AI Myths On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall discusses a common AI myth with AI thought leader, Sarah Alt. Sarah is the founder and CEO of the Ethical AI Consortium, a nonprofit membership organization of industry partners, institutions of higher education, and professionals who are dedicated to the awareness of ethical and responsible use of advanced algorithms, analytics, automation, and AI. The EAIC supports the development and recognition of ethical AI leadership and organizations, government education, and research. Sarah has over 20 years of experience in the technology industry, and she continues her mission to create a more explainable future. For those that are new to AI, Sarah will help you get intrigued and engaged in this amazing technology that we have in our hands. Enjoy today’s episode as we talk about the common myths about artificial intelligence. Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and I’m so excited to be sitting down right now, talking to Sarah Alt. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us in our conversation all around artificial intelligence. Sarah Alt: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Jenn, a pleasure to be here. Jenn DeWall: So Sarah, for people that may not know you or may not be familiar with the work that you do within the space of AI, could you go ahead and introduce yourself for us? Meet Sarah Alt, Public Interest Technologist Sarah Alt: Yeah, sure. Thank you. We, I recently founded the Ethical AI Consortium, which is a nonprofit organization here in the US focused on bringing standards and governance models from sort of the marketplace around AI and in particular. As it pertains to the ethical and trustworthy, responsible use of AI and bringing that to organizations that need help with that. Or that have committed their ethical AI journey. We do a lot of research and development to get them the information that they need and to bring them on board with the various frameworks that are available. To learn, how do I navigate everything that’s going on in the ethical AI space? And we make sure that you can navigate that awkward dance of am I responsible for this is? Or is it that my vendors and suppliers that are responsible for it? Who all plays a role in making sure that we’re both buying and using AI in trustworthy and ethical ways? So that’s what we’re doing with the EAIC today. What does Ethics Have to do with AI? Jenn DeWall: What does that mean? And I know we’re going to talk a little bit more about AI, but for someone that might be unfamiliar with attaching ethics to artificial intelligence, because we might think of that’s technology, why would I have to add ethics to that? So at a high level, what does it mean to have ethical AI? Sarah Alt: Yeah, so I think it really boils down to a really important word, which is trust in our technologies and because humans are developing these technologies still today. Yes, there may be a day when technology is developing itself, and there are no humans involved. We just, that day isn’t yet here. And so humans are still developing these technologies, and they’re developing it for other humans to either make decisions or, or at least get recommendations to make decisions from it. And so being ethical and responsible in that is making sure that we’re not violating fundamental human rights, that we’re not amplifying biases, that we’re not discriminating against human beings, potentially not even purposefully or knowingly, but maybe unconsciously or unintentionally. And it’s making sure that we’re doing that in some kind of a safe and responsible way. It does not necessarily mean that we’re rushing to legislation or making laws as much as it is to make sure we understand how to be more trustworthy. And how to be more ethical when we are using these technologies because we want to embrace them. Technology is a great thing, as long as we know that we’re making good decisions with it. Jenn DeWall: And I thank you so much for just clearing that up because I think knowing the topic of AI for someone like me is it’s still relatively new. So, and I absolutely am the person that thinks, oh, it’s technology or, oh, it’s a robot, right. It’s artificial intelligence. And so I don’t necessarily think about ethics initially. And I think that’s an important bridge. It’s not where we’re going to go in our conversation today, but it is important to think that, yeah, this is technology, but it’s also a tool. It’s a skill. It can be used for great things, or maybe not so great. And we need to understand how to make sure that it’s doing things in a responsible way, but today we’re actually going to be talking about the AI myth. Why do you think there are so many myths around AI? Sarah Alt: I found that debunking an AI myth is a great place to start with most audiences because AI sort of feels like this mythical thing that we’re supposed to be fascinated by, but we ended up being potentially frustrated with, how do I take advantage of, of AI? I know I’m supposed to be listening to the fact that these technologies are coming, but what does that really mean? And what does taking advantage of AI or incorporating AI in our business or organization really mean? And so we like to start with the myths because it helps us again, as humans to consume this, to understand it, is this something that I need to be like, excited about, afraid of, or a combination of those. So that’s what we like to do with this kind of AI myth. AI Myth 1: Are Robots and AI the Same Thing? Jenn DeWall: Well, and there’s so much that I don’t know. So I know that I’m probably leaning into assumptions that I’m making about this, but let’s dive into one of the myths. So I know that we have a few that we’re going to talk about today, but one of the AI myths is the one that conflates robots with AI. What is that myth specifically? Sarah Alt: So this is like the first real “aha moment” for most people that we talk with, because there’s, again, this AI myth that’s been either implanted into us or that we’ve arrived at ourselves. That AI myth that if I don’t have robots, like if I don’t see robots here next to me, then I must not have AI yet. And so I’m good. Right? And so some of the— what we remind people is that some of the most basic components of AI— algorithms, data analytics, machine learning, these are really basic components. That, of course, in the proper recipe and with all the great intelligence that’s put into building AI produce some very powerful automation. But these have been around in the workplace for a long time. So we invite people to use the term artificial intelligence more broadly to mean a computer program that uses data to execute a task that a human would typically perform. By that definition, AI is not really new, so that would be an AI myth. Robots have been performing human tasks for a long time. We’ve had— you and I have talked about— we’ve had robots in manufacturing facilities for decades. But, the volume and variety of data that we have available to us, the speed at which we can process it, and the ability for the machine or the AI to learn more sophisticated human-like decision-making. These are what’s making AI more interesting and novel than any other automation that we’ve seen. And it’s where things can get a little bit slippery when you’re not certain about the quality of the data that we’re feeding the machine. So we shouldn’t wait for robots to show up at the door to suddenly take responsibility for how the basic components are developed and used in our organizations or how we program them or how we sell them. If any part of your decision-making in your organization today uses algorithms, advanced analytics, or any kind of advanced automation. Then you have, we invite you to consider, then you have some version of artificial intelligence, even without robots. And we need to focus on the quality of our decisions and take more responsibility for those machines. Jenn DeWall: This may be the time to say that AI is—and I know many people have made this joke, but that feeling when you just looked at this on Google, and now it’s showing up in my social media, what in the heck is happening? That is artificial intelligence, right? Or is that an AI myth? Sarah Alt: Absolutely. It’s an algorithm in its simplest form, that data, which is who are you and what are you looking up? And what are the results of what you’re looking up? And what do you do with those results? Do you click on it? Do you pause there? Do you stare at it? Do you consider it? And, and the algorithm taking all those data points and making inferences, making decisions, making recommendations that eventually then say, Oh, if Jenn is interested in that, then she must be interested in this. So it’s an, it’s a simple algorithm, very complex, but at its simplest form, it’s an algorithm that is helping to guide that decision. And so really, without robots, we are we’re using and work close to AI every single day. Jenn DeWall: Gosh. Yeah. It is still relatively new. I remember I think, getting my master’s, this was almost ten years ago. And just thinking about how people were starting to use data in their marketing to understand who their consumer was, what they need. They gave examples of a retailer being able to understand and project customer behavior. Like where someone was— like if they were pregnant, and then they became a mom, tracking when retailers should send them the next ad for something. Like, wow, the ways that AI can think is, is pretty incredible. I mean, I know there’s the spooky side, and that’s not what we’re here to talk about, but it’s, it’s really amazing. AI is around us whether we realize it or not. So another AI myth is, you know, all our own data scientists, like kind of like innovation, how they assume research and development is responsible for innovation. And I think AI gets the same assumption. That, Hey, there’s someone over in the corner that’s responsible for our AI. But what does is that AI myth about? AI Myth 2: Isn’t AI Just for Data Scientists? Sarah Alt: Yeah. I love the R & D example, because I often use that one as well, that we want to have innovation embedded in what we do. And likewise, the AI myth that we are trying to sort of debunk and help organizations understand is that this idea of wait, we need data scientists in order to explore AI. Don’t we? That’s a common AI myth. And so, therefore, when we talk about the fact that we’ve already kind of have AI in our workplaces, it follows that since we’ve been making these decisions even before or without data scientists, we don’t necessarily need them to explore AI. And to be fair to all those data scientists out there, this is not to say that they aren’t valuable or necessary. They absolutely are, but it’s more in when we have this conversation with organizations it’s to remind them that the disciplines and competencies we need in order to get the great value out of AI investments can and should be built into many roles. You shouldn’t just package it up and say, that’s for the data scientists to worry about. Because, in fact, the data scientists I talked to they want their colleagues and other business functions to be skilled at working alongside the awesome stuff that they’re building. They don’t want to be the only person in the organization that is responsible for making sure that that it needs, that it fits its purpose, that it meets the needs, and that it isn’t biased or discriminatory. There’s, there’s actually a real condition in decision-making today called the automation addiction, even so far as automation bias this ever-evolving list of unconscious biases that we have. But this idea that if I over-rely on technology and automation to tell me what to do, or how to believe, then we’re at risk of making too many decisions based on automation that was built by somebody that perhaps maybe not intentionally, but maybe unintentionally, had built bias into it. So we can’t completely turn off that part of our brains of critical thinking and making sure that it makes sense, it’s fit for purpose, and that we’re using it the right way. And so we want to upscale and rescale all of our talent in our organizations to work alongside the AI, not just only rely on our data scientists to bring that. Jenn DeWall: I love that. It’s all about the upskill of that. And I think you nailed it. Think about it as something that we want to build into every single level from our frontline to the C-suite. We should all be able to have the skillset to allow us to leverage the power of AI. To implement AI, even if you’re maybe more at the frontline— to execute and utilize it. So it can capture the data that you need for future decisions or strategies or growth. What have you, I, you know, and I think it’s really empowering because I think that makes the subject of AI feel more attainable to think, Oh, I could do this. I can look at this to figure out, you know, how we could potentially leverage this piece of data instead of feeling like, I don’t know that’s data, and I’m afraid of that. And I don’t know what to do with it, or I’m not an analytical person, so I can’t understand it. Like your approach makes it feel like I could probably learn this. Sarah Alt: Yeah. And this whole idea of because I love that phrase. I often hear that. Right. Which is this, Oh, I’m not good at math, or I’m not an analytical person. That’s okay. We don’t want you to only be good at math or good at data science to understand how to work alongside AI. In fact, I would argue, in some cases, we need that diversity we’re encouraging in, in most cases, bringing in these other sorts of experiences and expertise to the table much earlier in the thought process and the buying or development process of AI. Frankly, so that we can eliminate or reduce that the biases that could result, if anything, to make sure we don’t make mistakes. But also another side benefit is the earlier that people are engaged from these other areas of your business in that thought process. And even in the decision-making process of bringing AI or automation to your workplace, the more likely they are going to be to adopt and be willing to work alongside the AI instead of refusing it or fearing it. AI Myth 3: Can’t We Just Set It and Forget It? Jenn DeWall: So get people- or essentially invite people into the conversation to evaluate, to try it because you’re introducing change. And we all know that people struggle with change. It takes us time to adapt, but bring them in at the beginning instead of waiting until you maybe have found these, you know, the ways that you can use it and then trying to force people to use it, show them how it can make it better. Fantastic. So another AI myth that you talked about, I think this isn’t one of my favorites- the set and forget. I can see companies doing this because I feel like I do it on my own. If I can ever look at technology, you know, it’s, Hey, what can I do to simplify something for my life and then never think about it again, but the set and forget myth. Sarah Alt: Yeah. So this AI myth is also one of my favorites because having bought and been on the buy-side of software equation for many years, you know, I have these scars left to prove that we’ve spent millions of dollars on software platforms. And so this myth of, I paid a lot of money for it, so I should just be able to set it and forget it that we’ve already invested in it. And so it should be fine, right? And this was even hard for me as a technology professional to make that shift in my career. But today you know, technology changes rapidly. The days of perfect software before it goes to market are like long gone. Software is very iterative. We update apps and software regularly to fix bugs and add features as more data, more variety of data points, and faster processors become available. The upside is we get to take advantage of that. The downside, of course, is that that investment that you made initially, yes, it does carry a sort of maintenance and an upkeep requirement that sometimes can surprise people. But likewise, the governance and the standard for what is lawful and acceptable or preferred in the way AI or any technology behaves also change in time. What is one day considered acceptable practice in one culture may not be acceptable in a few years later, or what is acceptable in one culture may not be acceptable in another culture. So AI is no different in that. It is constantly evolving and learning. And again, this is why we remind our members and our clients not to take our eyes off the adjustments we need to make for the more responsible use of that technology, as well as the technology itself. There’s this belief that it should just work, especially if it costs so much money to implement. And I totally get that, but those critical sense-making and critical thinking skills that we talked about that we want to have people, you know, working alongside the AI are really important to make sure we’re training the algorithms to meet the standards, the protocol, and the cultural nuances of where it’s used. So real quick example or story from my own “aha moment” regarding AI in the workplace. A few years ago, we posted a role to recruit for a manager on our team and our, and our HR recruiter showed me a batch of resumes. And I didn’t really see any candidates in that group that sort of fit what we were, what we were looking for. So I asked her to get more candidates, and I totally expected that she would repost it, come back in two weeks with a new batch of resumes and we would sit down and go through it. But she came back two hours later that afternoon with a new batch. And in it, we found a few more candidates that seem a bit of a better fit for us. But when I asked her where the second batch of resumes came from, she said that they were originally screened out. And I asked, well, who screened them out? And she said the system screened them out. And I asked, how does the system— or the software in this case— know that it was wrong this time. In this case, it was wrong because what it screened out was actually where I found value. And she didn’t know. She didn’t have an answer. So I asked, could we update the system? Could we tell it here’s how to do better for Sarah’s needs next time? And again, she didn’t know. And the more I pressed and eventually got in front of the software vendor to do the same, the more apparent that was to me that no one could explain or was willing to explain. There’s another whole different conversation we can get into about the willingness to be transparent about the algorithms. But regardless of that situation, I realized if I couldn’t explain it for myself, I would never be able to explain it for others. Can You Explain Your Algorithms? Sarah Alt: And, and I became that person, which you know, is shameful of me to admit, but I became that person who refused to use the technology because of the bad experience. And I was supposed to be a technology leader. So for me, that was very much an existential moment in my career where I realized, wait a second, this lack of transparency does not sit right with me. It certainly didn’t sit right with me that I’m, I’m pretty sure we weren’t biased or discriminatory in that situation. But if we had been presented in a situation where we were, and I couldn’t explain that, that that would not bode well for us. So we weren’t even talking about AI in the workplace at that time, it combines the whole, we didn’t have robots either. We are just making decisions based on a recommendation from an algorithm in a system. And so for me, this was sort of that we need to go back and figure out how do we tune the software? Or how do we ask ourselves, how do we get to a point where we can feel comfortable explaining the outcome? Because not being able to, I don’t think it is good enough. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. And I think you’re also bringing awareness to something that I think many people don’t realize that there are applicant tracking systems. So when you go to apply for a job, that resume that you uploaded, depending on the format that is uploaded, will determine whether or not it gets kicked out. I know one of the things for resumes. If it’s, let’s say, I think if it’s in just an Adobe (.pdf) versus a Word (.docx) Where it can’t pull up those keywords, it could be discarded. And so I think it’s important for people to know that, Hey, do you understand what type of system your organization is using or do you know what kind of system another could be using? Jenn DeWall: Because I also think that, you know, as a career coach, this is one of the easier ways to say, it’s not always just you. It could be a system that automatically kicked you out. And so you don’t have to feel bad or feel like you’re a bad person or an unqualified or not, you know, not confident in the direction you want to go because if we don’t learn how to leverage this technology, there could be things working against you that you absolutely have no control over. Sarah Alt: Right. And you know, it’s funny because you made me think about sort of this other side of the argument that, well, if we explain it too much, and if we’re too transparent about how the algorithm works, people will find a way to beat the system. They’ll find a way to put just the right words or do just the right things to sort of game the system and beat the algorithm. And frankly, that’s going to happen. Regardless. I think that what, especially in, in, in places where fundamental human rights are being considered where bias and discrimination can enter, which for like every organization, is going to be in your hiring practices. We sort of invite people to say, look if the worst thing that happens is that people will game the system–you can find that out. You can weed that out. Wouldn’t you rather make sure that you weren’t introducing or amplifying bias or discrimination in your AI or your software? And that you could explain that so that you could feel confident in that you’re not violating fundamental human rights. And you have sort of that foothold to stand on while you entertain this whole idea of people trying to game the system because they know how the algorithm works. Right? Can People Outsmart the Algorithms? Jenn DeWall: I was just in a meeting this morning, and they were talking about algorithms and on a social media platform. That, Hey, initially, you could partner with all your friends, have them comment, and then it would, you know, move your, move, your quote, or your post, whatever higher and get visibility. But once that platform figures out that you kind of have the same people that are doing it, they, they then take that, and they can also do the opposite. That’s right. Sarah Alt: That’s right. Jenn DeWall: You can try to beat the system, but there are systems also I think built in to anticipate that level of, let’s say, I don’t, I don’t want to call it. I don’t know if you call it cheating. If it is cheating, this is—I don’t know if you call it that. Sarah Alt: Outsmarting, or gaming, in some cases cheating, like it, it all depends on sort of that lens that you look inwardly with, but to your point- humans should still be at least involved in being able to screen that and see if that’s what’s happening. And I think that’s the part where it’s, we often back to the automation addiction model, we believe that, Oh, we’ve spent all the money on this. So I should be able to rely on the automated decision. And it’s not to say, like, we’re, fear-mongering, we’re not trying to suggest that anybody should be fearful of that, but we are asking for that sort of critical thinking and sense-making to say, is this really what we intend to do with this? And is this really how we intended to use it? Because remember– and this kind of segues already into our next myth– but remember that these technologies that are built the way software manufacturers build. It is for the common sort of denominator of all subscribers. Otherwise, they would be tailoring and building custom applications of custom software specifically for Jenn’s needs. And that’s not necessarily a responsible market. I’m just certain people will offer to do that, but that’s not necessarily sustainable. It’s just not how the market works. So they build it for that sort of general use. And it’s really up to you as the subscriber or the buyer or the user to figure out what are the right configurations that are going to fit our culture, both national culture, and organizational culture. That is going to fit the legal requirements and regulatory requirements of our industry. Like there’s a lot of nuances that go into that, and the software vendors know that. And what we’re encouraging on the software development side is make sure that you’re really intentional about saying that to your clients and your subscribers. Don’t just assume they know that because they may not. And not because they’re not intellectually capable of knowing it. They just may have a reliance on, and a bias toward automation, especially when they’ve spent all that money on it. Right? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. It can be hard to think about having to make another investment or long going or long term, you know, in investments. I think the thing that comes to mind for me from a normal person perspective, if you will, is the concept of a gym membership. You can’t pay for a luxurious gym and then assume that by not going there that your membership alone would be the thing that gets you, where you need to be nice. You have to put in the work, and you have to, you know, assess where you’re at. You need to set goals. You need to know what machinery is going to work for you. I mean, if I look at my gym, I might be more of a “set and forget” person. Sarah Alt: It’s great. No, I totally get it. It’s a great analogy. AI Myth 4: If my AI is Biased, it’s the Vendor’s Fault. Jenn DeWall: And then, the next AI myth is my technology vendor. What’s the AI myth that people have around, I guess, the expectation that they think the person that builds the technology has or what they have to do and offer them? What’s that myth? Sarah Alt: Yeah. So very early on, you could get away with this, which is this AI myth that it’s the vendor or supplier’s responsibility if I make mistakes with AI, right? And so very early on when the market was sort of immature and even our legal advisors were a bit, they’re still catching up with, with the software game here. And with AI, in particular, you could get away with that. But very quickly, things have changed. And there’s an expectation both in the practice of law, but also just in any good sort of ethical practice. There’s an expectation of shared accountability. Vendors and suppliers are responsible, no doubt, for the quality and performance of their AI technology, but they’re not necessarily responsible for any mistakes or biases that already exist in your data or your processes or in how people make decisions with that technology. Your people apply the AI to your data, your decisions, and your processes. It’s sort of the view of the supplier of the, or the vendors and suppliers of software. It doesn’t mean they completely wash their hands of it. But if you use my HR recruitment, as an example, the software that we subscribe to is the same one that the organization down the road subscribes to. They may be configured slightly differently than we are, but for practical purposes of what it’s intended to be used for, we were using it correctly. Where we lacked was the ability to explain how it worked in the situation of screening out certain candidates. That screening out may be happening because of data that we were feeding it or ways in which we were using it. So all of this needs to be reviewed and assessed regularly to make sure that we’re preventing mistakes. Another recruiting example, and that’s a completely stay in recruitment, but I just think that this is, you know, every organization, for the most part, has some version of employees. And so we want to make sure that people understand that this is one of the top places that we need to look for this. If you’re subscribing as an example to an AI-based screening system, some companies will subscribe to like cognitive testing system where after you’ve gotten candidates so far in the process, you administer some kind of cognitive tests to screen candidates to see if they’re kind of up to what your cognitive expectations are. If your measure of successful candidates, even partially considered a past candidate success- so the data that you’ve fed it was based on Jenn was successful in her role. She stayed in her role for two years from the time that we hired her. So that’s because we’ve taught the algorithm that Jenn’s cognitive results are good for our organization. But if you are, none of your past candidate candidates had a cognitive disability, for example, you could be unintentionally biased against those candidates. And because recruiters feel they can trust the AI, going back to our point about automation addiction, more than human screening, you may unknowingly be amplifying this bias against people with a cognitive disability. It may be your own data, processes, and people that we need to tune for that. Not even because, again, you were intentionally trying to do that, but because your data did not have historically represent the population that you may be needing to serve today and making sure that it is not discrimination. So that’s just another recruiting example of how we need to make sure that it’s not just we don’t just take the software that the vendor gives us. And we say that it must be good. And therefore, if it’s bad, it’s only their fault. It also is a responsibility for how we use it and the data that we feed it. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. It’s like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new car. And then if you don’t pay attention to the traffic signal and get into an accident, you can’t go back and say, well, you did this. Right. But I think that’s important. Like I love that. I think that’s a really important thing to note because I, and again, the thing that we have to remember is that for most people, you likely, aren’t the ones that are developing the software. You’re the ones that are learning how to partner with the software. And so, yeah, you need to understand how it works. You don’t necessarily need to be as concerned about intent if you’re not programming it, but you need to understand how it might be making decisions for you or what specific decisions it’s making on your behalf. Sarah Alt: Yeah. We recently saw this also play out in a really significant way regarding facial recognition AI used in law enforcement. There’ve been several instances where the AI has shown bias in skin color, and it may not have been the intention of the AI developers. It may have been an unconscious bias. It may have been the data that was used to train it. It could have been the data that was used by the specific law enforcement subscribers, though, that was already biased against any offenders that were not Caucasian. Whatever the precise reasons are for that bias, the major software company supplying the AI for law enforcement either paused or completely exited that business as a result of what they learned from those mistakes. At least until the practice can be better understood. But, but the point here is that they took some level of accountability. They shared that accountability with their law enforcement subscribers to say, listen, it’s not ready. It’s maybe it’s not ready just for your specific use. Let’s, let’s learn from this. Let’s teach ourselves, let’s teach the algorithm, let’s teach the AI how to understand and make sure that we aren’t biased and discriminatory in how we’re using the facial recognition in that, in that law enforcement instance. AI Myth 5: Will AI Replace Human Workers in the Future? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, that’s the ethics. So let’s, let’s go into that, that fifth one, which I feel like is absolutely the one that me, as a non-AI’er, if that’s a thing, as someone that’s outside of the land of artificial intelligence, that AI will replace all humans in the workplace. I feel like we really have that one. That AI myth that our jobs are going to be gone pretty soon, everything’s going to be done by a robot, and we can’t embrace it because it’s out to get us. What is that myth? Why do people have that myth? Sarah Alt: Yeah. So a lot of that AI myth has to do with cultural placements of, and the way in which you know, for all very good reasons we want to see advancement in technology. We want to see it evolve continuously. And I think if you study any of you know, Moore’s Law, or anything else about how fast technology changes, it just feels like a sort of fascinating to think about the process or the idea of robots replacing us. It’s an AI myth – AI is replacing all humans in the workplace. But also frustrating at the same time, because you realize, wait a second, does that mean that AI is going to replace me? Right? And so there’s no doubt that, and I don’t know the exact year, but recent graduates and people are entering the workforce. And in pretty much most countries in the world, they can expect that they’re going to be working alongside AI sometime in their career from that point forward. And it’s not that long ago, but certainly that they’re going to be working alongside. What we see is more of a preference for co-bots or collaborative robotics, robots that operate maybe at slower speeds or that are fitted slower speeds than maybe you and I think of robots like in an automobile manufacturing scenario where they’re working really fast, but that’s because they’re tuned for one specific task. We’re talking about AI that’s learning and evolving even in its active state. It’s sitting there right next to you, that kind of thing. We see that more being collaborative that you are going to be working alongside them. That’s not an AI myth at all. We see applications like this, for example, in hospital settings, where we have AI-powered robots that are running manual routines that normally a human being would do, like taking samples, taking test samples, and delivering it to a location. Now you could say, well, that’s just robotics. Well, in some cases, AI is built into that robot to make a better decision about the path that is going to take or how it knows whether or not it’s doing the right thing. But this again brings opportunities forward for those critical thinking and analytic skills that we want, that we need to have as we’re working alongside the robots. You know, we’re actually really looking forward to opportunities where robots and AI can replace humans in very dangerous jobs or menial tasks that help to sort of regain you know, fulfillment and job satisfaction with the right investments and upskilling and reskilling people in these jobs. There’s that hope for more fulfillment and job satisfaction because I don’t need to be worried about very dangerous tasks, or I don’t need to be sort of demeaned by these menial tasks. And so we’re really looking for opportunities to elevate where we’re working alongside the robots, not necessarily replaced by them. Jenn DeWall: And I think that’s exciting then to look at it like that they are true partners here to also provide potentially greater job satisfaction for you, or at least a safer job. If it is a task that you know is more hazardous. So it sounds like there’s a lot of ways that we can actually embrace AI. But what is the thing, like, what advice would you give for leaders today? Like what, what would you say they need to do now in terms of AI? Sarah Alt: Yeah. And so obviously from our work, we’re very focused on the ethics and the ethical and trustworthy use of it. So from that standpoint, we absolutely invite organizations and leaders to prioritize where your greatest value is going to be from your AI investments and prioritize where to look. Because as we said earlier, you’re probably already making sophisticated, analytical decisions elsewhere in your business. And almost all organizations, you can start with recruiting and hiring and, and any of those areas where you’re making decisions about employees and kind of work from there as your priorities and, you know, really ask what seems like a fairly simple, straightforward question, but perhaps one that we haven’t really asked sort of in this, in the light of this setting, which is how are we using algorithms to make decisions today? Make sure that you’re following laws in those areas. Hopefully, you are. And then take the next lens with that. Which is okay, we may be following laws— but is this representative of the ethical use and the ethical practices and of the cultural norms, both national culture, but also the corporate or organizational culture that we live by? And one of the most important things that we coach organizations on is making sure to define what transparency and explainability mean for you. You know, my earlier example of nobody could really explain to me how the technology works. That’s a pretty risky situation when you’re talking about a recruiting or employment situation, so you don’t want to be there. And so what we invite organizations to think about is just as we’re sort of auditing our systems for their, for example, for their fitness, for financials, or for auditing our processes, to make sure that we’re following regulatory and compliance. We’re inviting organizations to think of doing the same thing with their advanced analytics, or advanced automation is to ask the questions are compliant from an ethical standard and ethical standard that we have set, or that we have shared with others and make sure that you’re making those changes that you’re committed and making those changes internally, but you’re also holding your vendors and suppliers to the same. The good news is that built carefully and in the right context, AI has the potential to actually be used to de-bias human decision-making if you think about it again, whole other podcast. Jenn DeWall: I was going to say, What? How can it be biased, and we then use it to remove bias? That is so interesting. Sarah Alt: I think there are ways to do that. And, and back to my data scientist friends who were probably getting a rash earlier, when I said they weren’t important, they are. And they’re exactly the people that can help us to build the right technologies that actually take the bias out if they’ve done so properly. For now, it still remains up to humans to make sure that’s done right. And that’s what we have to hold ourselves accountable to. What is Your Leadership Habit for Success? Jenn DeWall: Sarah, I’ve really enjoyed our podcast. I also loved, you know, even closing just thinking about what you can do right now. And one of the pieces is just to see if you can understand it in a way that you can describe it. It doesn’t have to be in a way where you understand the backend programming, because I wouldn’t be able to speak to that, but I want to at least understand how it works. So be curious about how it can help and also just what could be potential blind spots that could get in your way down the line if you set and forget. But Sarah, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. This last question is not about an AI myth, but I do close every single podcast episode with our one question—what is your leadership habit for success? Sarah Alt: Yeah. Thank you. It’s funny because that tees up my answer as well because I believe that being okay with not knowing all the answers is okay. Be comfortable in your willingness to ask questions with a genuine commitment to learning. Again, having answers is important and having a vision is important. And being mindful and intentional about asking questions. I just find that we arrive— when we’re working together and collaborating together— we arrive at so many more aha moments and quality decisions when we’ve just had a chance to ask some questions. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re not committed to, or we don’t. We were going to flip flop our answers, but we’re just going to make sure that we understand it and that we see it from other’s perspectives. And I think that’s just been where I’ve seen the most success with our leadership and with our teams when we’re working together, Jenn DeWall: Practice curiosity! And I think it’s important to know because AI does feel intimidating and, but there are so many nuances to it. I love even just the belief that bias exists means that there’s going to be someone that can’t know everything about it because then there’s likely a bias there, or an AI myth or two. Sarah, thank you so much for just sharing your knowledge, sharing your wisdom, your insights, and everything with our leaders. It was a joy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much. Sarah Alt: You’re welcome. Thank you. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for joining in on our podcast today with Sarah Alt. Now for more information about her organization, the Ethical AI consortium, or how you or your organization can start your commitment to the ethical use of algorithms, analytics, automation, and AI, you can connect with Sarah on LinkedIn and follow the EAICs progress at explainyourai.org. And of course, don’t forget to share this with your friends, help spread the news about AI. And if you enjoyed the podcast, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service.   The post Episode 38: Busting Common AI Myths with Sarah Alt, Founder of the Ethical AI Consortium appeared first on Crestcom International.

Reduce Stress and Burnout with Laughter Yoga In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking to Jenna Pascual. Jenna is a certified Laughter Yoga leader, yoga teacher, and life coach based in San Francisco. She discovered Laughter Yoga after being diagnosed with repetitive stress syndrome from working at tech startups for 10 years. Jenna is now on a mission to help companies and teams create a positive, engaging, and innovative work environment where employees can experience more productivity, authenticity, and fun during the workday. Join our host, Jenn DeWall, as she learns more from Jenna about how you can bring laughter into your workplace to reduce stress and burnout, improve performance, and make your people happy. Full Transcript Below:  Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone! It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of the leadership habit, I am so excited to welcome Jenna Pascual. For those of you that may not know her, she is a certified Laughter Yoga teacher and leader. It’s what we all need more in our lives. She’s also a life coach she’s based in San Francisco, which we’re happy to have another representation from around the US. But Jenna, you know, we brought you on here because I know you do a ton of work with teams and organizations all about how they can incorporate laughter into the workforce. But you know, for those that may not know, you just tell us a little bit about yourself. How in the heck did you get into this concept of Laughter Yoga because it’s something I had never heard of before. Meet Jenna Pascual, Registered Yoga Teacher and Laughter Yoga Leader Jenna Pascual: Yes. So I actually spent 10 years working at tech startups, and I spent most of my time working at Facebook. And while I was working there, I was diagnosed with repetitive stress syndrome. So because of that diagnosis, I started practicing yoga. And then, I actually left tech to pursue yoga. So I went to Guatemala, I did a yoga teacher training, and while I was traveling there, I spent seven months in Latin America. And I met a woman in Nicaragua who loved my laugh. And I started noticing that every country I went to, people would always compliment my laugh. So I was like, wow, maybe I should do something with this. And then my friend in Nicaragua mentioned Laughter Yoga. So when I came back to the United States, I, you know, I looked online. I was like, what is Laughter Yoga? And then I found that it at UCSF they have free Laughter Yoga classes. So I attended one, and it was so amazing. It was actually full of recovering cancer patients. And it really touched my heart actually because my mother passed away from cancer when I was 15—and just seeing how much joy laughter brought to these people. Like I felt a sense of my mother being in that room. And I just knew it was part of my calling to start teaching Laughter Yoga. And I was already a certified yoga teacher, and I was thinking, okay, I’m going to combine teaching Laughter Yoga and yoga. But then, there was also the whole stressed out at work aspect. So I’m really just so passionate about helping employees reduce stress because I don’t want anyone to go through what I went through. You know, having repetitive stress and just being, you know, in, in physical pain. So for those that don’t know repetitive stress. For me, I was experiencing it in my wrist, and it was like kinda like carpal tunnel, but it would run, it was a shooting pain that ran up from my wrist up to the back of my neck. And it was just from being so stressed out and also just, you know, repetitively typing all day. So now I teach Laughter Yoga, and I love it. It’s so much fun. And for those that don’t know what Laughter Yoga is. Laughter yoga is an alternative form of yoga, where we incorporate laughter and breathing exercises. So there’s actually no yoga mats, no yoga poses. It’s really accessible and easy for anyone to do. I know a lot of people, you know, are intimidated by yoga or just think, you know, yoga is not for me, or they say I’m not flexible. But if you can laugh, you can practice Laughter Yoga. Repetitive Stress Syndrome Jenn DeWall: I love that. It’s so inclusive because I know that I’m absolutely one of those people that, well, I appreciate what yoga does. I definitely focus on some of my limitations. I’m curious, Jenna, I want to go back to understanding the kind of stress that you even observed within yourself. And how the heck did you know that it was affiliated with stress? Like how do you start to put those pieces and those dots together to recognize something is not right? And it’s actually as a result of work-related stress, how do you create that awareness or how did you find out? Jenna Pascual: So I actually did. I had no idea. I didn’t even know what repetitive stress syndrome was. I went to the doctor, told him all my symptoms, and I was just diagnosed with it. It wasn’t classified as carpal tunnel syndrome. So, you know, the medical professionals are just able to tell, but I was telling him about, you know, how many hours—these were probably the clues— just working a lot of hours and not taking breaks. Because one of the questions that my doctor asked me was, you know, do you take breaks throughout the day? And I actually said, no, I would take a lunch break, but that was pretty much it. And so he really recommended that I set a timer every 50 minutes to get out of my chair to get, you know, away from my desk. Like, stop typing to give me, my wrists and my fingers a rest. Jenn DeWall: No kidding. And I know that that is something that probably some of our listeners are hearing. They might identify that with that, especially if they’re maybe working remote right now where they’re not necessarily creating those boundaries or giving themselves that opportunity for a break, but for you, I’m so happy that you went to the doctor and that they found that there is something that you could do in addition, obviously to what unfolded into Laughter Yoga. But so thank you for giving that because I’m sure in tech like you likely see, you know, you’re in the epicenter of all of these kinds of prestigious companies that are, people are sought after they really want to work for. But what they may not realize is that in exchange for getting to work for such a great organization, there are higher expectations for how you’re going to maybe interact with the organization or how you’re going to show up. And so, and I’m sure it’s just competitive in general because you have the best and the brightest that are like, well, well they’re working longer. Maybe I’ll work longer, and I’ll work longer. As I said, I’m sure there are a ton of variables that can create an environment where people maybe are just, you know, at their wit’s end or like just really stressed out, not necessarily taking care of their self-care. I don’t know if you’ve seen anything more in tech. Like I just feel like you hear about that. It’s kind of like the work hard play hard. Is that fair, I guess assumption or description of what I’ve heard? Jenna Pascual: Yes. And you know, most of my friends still work in tech, and I know they still work a lot of long hours and especially working at home now, you know, I, I hear that it’s really hard to separate, you know, work-life and personal life now that they are working from home. Laughing to Reduce Stress Jenn DeWall: Yeah. It’s, that’s why I hope that they are listening to this because this is going to be a way that they’re going to be able to bring some more play, to reduce some stress into their organization. I love it. You shared when we were prepping this, and you had shared that there were two facts, you know if we’re going into Laughter Yoga and what it is like, what is Laughter Yoga? Like I know, you briefly described it, but thinking about those facts that you also shared, like what is Laughter Yoga? Because I’m sure that there is someone that’s like, what are they talking about? This is bananas. Like we’re not supposed to laugh more. We don’t need to do that. Like we need to be focused. Jenna Pascual: Right? So there are two facts that I love sharing with people. And one of them, this is what convinced me to really get into Laughter Yoga, learning that studies have shown that our bodies actually can’t tell the difference between simulated laughter and real laughter. And so, you know, just knowing that our bodies are- part of the reason why laughter is so important is because of all the health benefits. You know, we hear that laughter is the best medicine, but one of the best or the most important health benefits of it, I think, is that it helps reduce stress. So, number one, it helps reduce stress. Number two it also helps boost our immunity. You know, so with COVID going around, we all could use a little immunity and immunity boost, and then another great health benefit of it is it helps spark our creativity and innovation, which I believe is so important, especially in the workplace. So those are just a few of the health benefits. There are other ones as well. It really helps stimulate all of the organs. It helps the blood flow and oxygen in our bodies. There are just so many benefits, but those are my top three, especially in the workplace. Jenn DeWall: Yeah, and I think those are ones that typically people don’t, you know, it’s easy when we first think of laughter, maybe we’re like, Oh, they’re really goofing around, but instead we could look at it, Hey, this is what they’re doing to reduce some stress. This is actually going to make them more resilient, keep them healthier, boost your immunity. I mean, for those that might be questioning how this could work, what benefit it is, laughing can boost your immunity, which absolutely in the middle of a pandemic, we need the strongest immunity that we can get. And I also love just that, like our bodies can’t tell the difference. They can’t tell if you’re laughing because something is funny. Or if you’re just laughing because you’re actually doing the practice of Laughter Yoga. Jenna Pascual: I forgot to mention this, but that’s, that’s what Laughter Yoga is all about. It’s all about voluntary laughter. So it’s very, very different from using jokes, comedy or humor. So when we use jokes, comedy or humor, we’re actually activating the left side of our brain. And so, you know, the left side of our brain is like our analytical side. And through the workday, we’re constantly analyzing, criticizing, judging, you know, using that left side of the brain, and through Laughter Yoga and voluntary laughter. We actually activate the right side of our brain. So that’s why Laughter Yoga really helps spark innovation and creativity in the workplace. And then the second fact that I love to share with people too is studies have also shown that if we just laugh voluntarily for 10 to 15 minutes a day, that’s how we reap all these health benefits. So it’s not just, you know, watching, you know, a sitcom or a movie. Cause when we just watch a sitcom or a movie, we might have little bursts of laughter for a few seconds. And then we’re also still using the left side of our brain to analyze if it is funny or not to us. And everyone has a different sense of humor. So a joke might be funny to one person, but it might not be funny to another. So in Laughter Yoga, we take all the jokes, all the comedy, and humor out of it. And we voluntarily laugh to really activate that right side of the brain, that side of the brain, that a lot of us don’t get to activate as much as the left side of the brain. Try Some Laughter Yoga Jenn DeWall: This is just mind-blowing to me because I, you know when you talk about just the stimulation of the right brain, some people are a little bit more, right-brain leading. Some people are a little bit more left-brained, and this is just, it sounds like cross-training for your brain. This is another opportunity to operate at your peak performance, especially with those benefits like creativity and innovation. All right. Well, let’s do, I mean, I know we talked about this, like let’s do the example of Laughter Yoga, which please bear with us. I, this is not a practice that I actively gonna actively do, but I encourage you as you’re listening to also follow a log. All right, then a guide us through a brief exercise or an example of Laughter Yoga. Jenna Pascual: So one that I love to do, especially in the workplace, is you know, a lot of us are typing all day, or we even use our phones. So this is a great one for our hands and our fingers. So you want to spread your fingers nice and wide. And what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna add our laughter with the movement, but I just want to first explain that we actually have acupressure points in our finger beds. So as we press down, we’re actually activating all of the acupressure points in our body, and this helps stimulate our organs. And it again helps the blood flow and oxygen and oxygen flow through our bodies and to our brains, which is really important. So as we do this exercise, it’s really important to press down on the, and for the people that are just listening. What I’m doing is I’m going to be pressing down my thumb and my index finger with a ho, and then we’re going to press our thumb and the middle finger with a “ho.” And then we’re going to press the thumb and the ring finger with a “ha” and then the thumb and the pinky with a “ha” and then we’re going to spread our hands nice and wide with another “ha.” So just to combine it, it’ll look like this, ho, ho, ha, ha, ha! So it’s a fun way to laugh and also stimulate all those acupressure points so we can do it together. Jenn DeWall: I love that I’m laughing already, but like ridiculous, but it’s okay. That’s part of the practice. Jenna Pascual: And the Laughter Yoga practice is also about just releasing what other people think of you. Jenn DeWall: We need that sometimes. Right? Angry customers, maybe making that mistake. We’re talking stress. So we’ve got, okay, I’m ready for it. (LAUGHTER) Jenn DeWall: Oh, I love that because it is just even the belly laugh. I feel like I notice just my body like relaxing in this uptight pose. I, I love that and that, what did that take us 30 seconds to do. Jenna Pascual: Exactly. And you know, as adults, especially in the workplace, we’re so serious, and I’ve been reading so many articles now about laughter in the workplace, and it just really helps with productivity and engagement. So that’s why I love bringing it to the workplace. Why Bring Laughter Yoga to the Workplace? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Let me think. And I know I’ve touched on this. I remember early on in my career when I was having a conversation with a VP, and he was a lovely man, a lovely man, and an absolutely empathetic to the new generations entering the workforce. And he was just always kind of laughed. Like I cannot believe that millennials want to have fun at work! Because he was a baby boomer. And that wasn’t something that was just not that you showed up. You came in, you did your job, and you showed that you were there, you know, obviously to make an impact and you were more serious about it. And he was really intrigued by how the generational shifts have really almost, not forced, but like asked organizations to expand the way that they look at how employees interact in the workplace. So that might be allowing people to have play and fun at work, even though yeah, 20, 30 years ago, maybe that was a sign that you weren’t serious. But now it’s actually an indication or an opportunity to reduce stress, work on your organs I feel like that’s the easiest workout I can get. To get the vitality, but, but what’s the business case. I know we talked about this already like what’s more of that business case. Like if we still have some people that aren’t really bought in, right. They’re still like, Hey, I don’t know if I want to sound ridiculous for 10 minutes laughing. He didn’t do that cute. Well, you could do it for a group exercise. Why should you care? Like why should the people that are listening? The ones that are working longer hours, the ones that do not have that division between work and personal life, why should they care? Because this is a health issue. I would argue this is the more serious part of what we’re probably going to talk about today. Why should they care? Laughter Can Reduce Healthcare Costs, Reduces Stress, Boosts Immunity and More Jenna Pascual: So one huge thing is it really helps reduce healthcare costs, you know, not only for the individual employee but also for the company, the companies that are paying for insurance. So it’s really, it’s it helps with, you know, reducing healthcare costs. It also helps reduce absenteeism. Like that’s a huge one. The healthier you are, the happier you are, the more satisfied you are with your job- the less likely you are to call in sick. So you know that, and when you call in sick, it not only affects your own work, but it affects the whole team that you work on. So it really trickles out to the entire team, to the entire company. I mentioned job satisfaction. You know, the more, the more we laugh, the more we play it really, it activates the endorphins in your brain, and it really helps with your job satisfaction. We mentioned engagement, you know, the more breaks that you can take, and the more that you can laugh throughout your workday, the more energy you’ll have to put into your work and be more focused throughout the workday in a sustainable way. And then corporate and team culture. Like that’s a huge one, especially with COVID, you know, everyone’s, most people are working from home. And so I really highly encourage companies to have fun ways that they can bring their employees together. You know, and so I come from a tech background and, you know, we would have a lot of happy hours with alcohol and things like that. And it was great, but I really believe that Laughter Yoga is the way to create more wellness along with play. Because when we have a work happy hour with alcohol. Like alcohol, you know, I don’t think it’s very good for your health, but if you could have like a laughter happy hour, you know, you’re not only creating that team and corporate culture. You know, that fun culture that most companies are trying to create, but you’re also balancing it out with wellness. So it’s like a great way to not only take care of your wellness and your health but also to create a positive team culture at the same time. Jenn DeWall: I love that. Because even now, where we aren’t necessarily able to get together face to face that this is a way that we can still laugh together and play together. When we may not be able to just pop by someone’s cube or meet them in the cafeteria, this is a way that we can connect with our team. And I think, you know, as long as even that activity, the finger activity that we did, everyone can do that together. It doesn’t matter. And I think that’s just so neat that there’s not a lot right now in remote settings that are able to bring that about or that community sense. So that just sounds like a really great way. And it obviously, it’s only, you said in the beginning, you only have to do it for, you know, 10 to 15 minutes. Like this could be, I guess, how do you see companies using this out of curiosity, you work a lot with organizations to bring this into the workplace. How do you, how do you see them using it? Bring Some Laughter Yoga to Zoom Meetings Jenna Pascual: Yes. So I do a lot of weekly wellness classes for most companies. A lot of companies also hire me for all-hands team meetings for their off-sites, which are now virtual off-sites and also like new hire onboarding, new hire training like an ice breaker. So I typically do 30-minute and one-hour sessions, and it’s just a great fun way to be on zoom without having it be so serious. Cause I, I understand a lot of people have back to back zoom meetings, and they really don’t want to be on zoom anymore. But with a laughter class virtually through zoom, it’s like a nice break from your typical zoom meeting. Jenn DeWall: Right. And it’s something that’s short. I love that you can bring that into a team meeting, or you could make it, you know, a full session. But it doesn’t, you know, if you are, you’re really restricted on time, or if you’re a team meeting, you have a lot to get through, you could still bring this in even for a few minutes. And that could be the perfect stress-buster if you will, that your team might need at the moment. How do you think the pandemic? I mean, you know, we’ve been talking a lot about stress, the pandemic, obviously the shift and just so many changes that organizations and leaders have gone through. How do you think that the pandemic has impacted how we respond to stress? Laughing as Meditation Jenna Pascual: Yeah. I think more people are stressed. And more people don’t know the tools. You know I, I feel pretty blessed that I discovered yoga and meditation before the pandemic hit. But I know a lot of people out there just don’t have the tools. So I think that people are super stressed and are looking for tools, which is great. And which is why I feel like I’m really here to serve. I’m here to share the gift of laughter with people, especially those who aren’t really into meditation. Because for me, laughter has really been my favorite form of meditation. People don’t consider laughter form of meditation, but it truly is. Because when you, when you have to laugh, you have to be present. Like there’s no way that you can laugh and be somewhere else, you know, just try to laugh. It’s impossible, but you know, so when you laugh, it’s, it’s a full meditation practice and back, you know, back in the day I didn’t use to meditate, but I would, I would still practice laughter meditation. And I really think of it as a gateway into other forms of meditation. The laughter meditation really created that space for me to really sit still after. So like one of my common practices is I actually, I laugh for one minute to let everything out, and then I’ll actually just stay quiet for another minute. And I’m really able to tap in. Jenn DeWall: I was, I was going to ask you so when you laugh for a minute, cause I know when we did the fingers like “Ho, Ho, ha, ha, ha.” That felt more structured. But when you say laughing for a minute, is it just kind of the free-flowing? Like ah, like, yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. So it’s one minute of just like allowing yourself that freedom of expression in terms of laughter followed by that one minute of silence and then, sorry I cut you off. And then what do you notice from that? From doing even those two together? Jenna Pascual: Yeah. So I love the way you phrase that- freedom of expression- and that’s pretty much, you know, what laughter is all about being able to use your voice and your laugh to express yourself. Because at work, sometimes we know, we feel like constricted. We feel like we can’t be our true selves at work. So through laughter, we just get to be ourselves. We get to let our inner child come out and play. So it’s just a way to honor your inner child and really your authentic self. But what it really helps me with is what I’ve noticed in my own body is when I laugh- like free form laugh- for a minute. And then when I move into the silent meditation, I’m really able to be more in my body and connect with my breath more as opposed to if I were just to start right away with the silent meditation, you know, there still might be a lot of like thoughts and chaos going on. But and I, you know, for those out there who are new to meditation, meditation is not about staying still or staying quiet. I’m not saying that that’s what meditation is, but when I laugh first, and then I move into the silent meditation, I do feel more at ease. Jenn DeWall: Well, it’s probably easier to get into it because you’ve kind of already focused your attention on something else. As you said, it grounds you. You get it all out. Like all the goofiness, the frustration may be that you’re pushing through. And then you can probably reflect or just sit in peace. I’m one of those people, that’s still a work in progress when it comes to meditation. But I feel like with Laughter Yoga— I can get behind that. That’s much more like I could laugh for a minute far easier than I could be still for a minute. So like that to me is just, I love how you describe it as a gateway because it does seem so much more approachable, accessible, and hey if I can then add on 30 seconds of silence, I will absolutely try that. But this is a way that I feel like I can try meditation without the pressure of all right, Jenn, you’ve got to take 10 minutes, make sure that you get all of your thoughts out. So you sit still. Like on what planet? I’m just not there yet. So I love that this is just a way that I can build on that. Yeah, Jenna Pascual: Yeah. For me, meditation is really just connecting with the breath. And so in Laughter Yoga, we connect with the laugh. And so once you’re really able to connect with your own laugh, you can then really connect with your own breath, which is meditating. Jenn DeWall: Yes. Well, and we talk about that too. In our classes that we (Crestcom) teach, you know, we talk about emotional intelligence. Obviously, one of the first things that we need to do is recognize the trigger but connect to the breath. And this is just another way that we can calm ourselves down. Okay. Where are the secret places that you recommend people doing this? If they’re at work and they don’t necessarily want someone to see them or hear them or think that they’re weird, like where do people go to do this? If maybe there’s a little shy about that expression of laughter. Maybe that’s when they bring it to their team, and they all do that together. Teambuilding with Laughter Jenna Pascual: I’m going to suggest, you know, team laughter is really the key because I’m even making eye contact with people that brings so much joy. So it’s, and it’s hearing everyone’s lap. But if you, if you, if you are still shy, which is perfectly fine, you know, I suggest going into a small meeting room, or you can even go outside and laugh. Silent laughter is also a real thing. So silent laughter would just look like this, and it’s so fun. I love doing silent laughter! Jenn DeWall: Like emulating what it looks like to laugh, but not producing a sound. Jenna Pascual: I also, I also love laughter-buddies like laughter texting buddies. So sometimes I’ll just text my laughter-buddy, “Ha, ha, ha.” And she’ll know what I mean without even needing to laugh, but just, you know, typing out ha ha ha brings so much joy. And that shocked me that, you know, there’s, there’s, we’re really laughing for no reason, which is, you know, again, stimulating the right side of the brain. Jenn DeWall: Right. Which is what we need because it takes away probably all of the blocks that we might have, especially. I mean, I imagine how this could even really just help accelerate problem-solving or decision-making because we’re shifting out of that logic where we keep running into those same roadblocks. But then by moving into our right side, we’re able to see the problem as an opportunity or just look at it in a different way. Like this could be really the thing that can help people accelerate the results that they want. What advice would you give for a leader to bring this into their organization? Jenna Pascual: Yeah. So for me, you know, again, it’s all about creating a really fun, productive, engaging team culture. So I highly encourage leaders to add more laughter into their day. You know, whether it’s working with me or even just creating laughter exercises in your own team meetings. You are creating structured breaks and times to laugh. I think that you know, that’s what I really recommend. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. And maybe it is for those that are like, okay, we’re not there yet, but maybe it’s on your Thursdays. You get together, and it’s your des-tress Thursday. I can’t think of anything more creative on the spot, but where they incorporate that into their Thursday activity. And then maybe it goes to a practice where before a big meeting is coming up and they know that people need to just calm down a little bit, but there are so many opportunities. Laughing at Lunchtime Jenna Pascual: I was going to say if you want specific examples of how leaders can bring it in. Yes. So some, some things that I do are like it’s called lunchtime laughter. So I offer lunchtime classes where people can laugh as part of their afternoon, you know, a little break. I’m finding that lunchtime is a really good time to do it. And then also, you know, the mid-afternoon so like around two or three, like that’s another time period where most of my classes are just because people need that little mid-afternoon pick-me-up. Right? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I am absolutely one of those people that sometimes at two o’clock if it’s been a day, that’s absolutely the time that I probably need the break, but how can we do this? So we talked about how we can bring it into the office. How can we do it at home? If we want to teach our kids or if we want to share it with our spouses who are stressed out and working in the next room since we’re all working from home. Jenna Pascual: I do have a lot of laughter videos on my YouTube channel, which is bit.ly/laughwithjenna. And I have a lot of laughter videos on my Instagram account, which is at https://www.instagram.com/jennapascual/. But if you want to just, you know, do it at home, it’s really easy. You just create these laughter exercises, and you can use my videos as inspiration. But yes, please invite your family, invite your friends. I can also teach more laughter exercises here if we have time. But one, one that I love to do is actually it’s called mental floss, and I love to start my day with this. So, you know, start and end the day actually. So, you know, with dental floss, we floss our teeth. But with mental floss, we are really, you know, just releasing all the negative thoughts that may come up. Jenn DeWall: So this is what we’re doing. I’m trying to follow along if you’re watching this on video, Don’t Forget Your Mental Floss Jenna Pascual: Our mental floss and we’re actually gonna like squeegee our brains out to clear our minds from all the stress and all the worries, but we’re going to do it with laughter. So it’ll look like this, You know, flossing, our teeth we’re flossing our minds. All right, you want to try it? Jenn DeWall: Yes, I am ready. I am ready. Ready. Laugh with Jenna Laughter Yoga Mental Floss [laughter] Jenn DeWall: I find myself like initially it’s forced, but then I feel like I laugh at myself laughing. So I’m like, this is just got to be the most, I don’t know, comedic. Like the look that I’m giving today, but it doesn’t feel so good. I know that I look ridiculous, but it feels so good. It feels lighter. It feels like I do have more connection with like my breath. I just feel calmer. And it’s all from even just forcing a laugh. And I think it’s something that we just overlook is something that we have within ourselves that we can use as another tool to combat or stress. It doesn’t matter how loud you go. Like, is there any type of benefit if you like it more of the dramatic or if it’s, you know, does that matter? Like is, are you supposed to put more of oomph in it to help feel that benefit? Or does that not matter at all? Jenna Pascual: It doesn’t matter. Yeah. Because our, again, our bodies can’t tell the difference between a simulated laugh and a real laugh. So even the silent laughter is simulating laughter. So our bodies still are, our bodies still register it as laughter. Another great tip for laughing at home is also while you’re cleaning. So this one has actually been really helpful for me during, you know, staying at home. But I’ll vacuum while laughing, Oh, you know, wash my dishes while laughing. So it’s a great way to add laughter and easily. Because you know, a lot of us clean throughout the day anyway. So you might as well add laughter while you’re doing it. So it doesn’t even need to be a separate practice. You can combine it with the things that you do. Or I even love to dance, and I love to roller-skate. So I’ll laugh as I’m roller-skating or dancing, you can really add it in throughout your day. Laughing While You Work Jenn DeWall: No kidding. Well, yeah, even if you are just running the vacuum, like instead of playing your music, look at that because what, who doesn’t want that? If you are someone that is multitasking, you’ve got a lot on your plate and the fact that you even need to carve out a few minutes for meditation, which sometimes that’s me where I’m like, I don’t know if I have time. The ability to layer that into things makes me feel like, okay, I can do that. That’s approachable, and I can clean and do this at the same time and recognize that I’m not only like making my house better or how I want to live in it, but also myself better and taking care of my well-being. And then maybe it’s a great thing to do also at the end of your day like before you go home, I’m just thinking out loud. Like I practice that if you’re going to shut down your computer for the day, maybe that’s the thing that you do to transition into your personal space. So you can have, you know, let go some of the stresses of the day. What, what do you say to the people that are – because you, I know you have to meet resistors. Like you have to either jump, go into those meetings or go into the zoom call, and someone is just like, who is this crazy person? Like what, and I don’t mean crazy in a bad way. I’m just, you know, maybe I’ll say that it a different way, but who is this person that’s telling me that I need to laugh? Like, how do you address the people that are resisting it? What are you? What’s your message to them? Jenna Pascual: I tell them it’s all about surrendering and letting go. You know, as adults where we like to control things, you know, we don’t like to just surrender to the moment. So I invite them to just take it as an opportunity to really surrender and let go and see what happens. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. So this is your opportunity to surrender- to that person that might be thinking, this is something that I’ve never tried, I’ll look ridiculous, insert whatever your thought is. This is just your opportunity to let go. And I think that’s a last, very strong point to make that as we do enter adulthood, as we get further into our careers, we do have that tendency to take things more seriously, which can create more stress. And I’m not saying that we don’t have to take things seriously, but we do need to understand that there’s a balance. So we can not only create the right environment for our organization or our team and ourselves to operate it because stress is real. We know that the impact of stress can have some longterm consequences. And part of that starts with just allowing yourself to experience play, and not take things so seriously. I think that’s a really strong yeah, I think a lot of adults might need to hear that. Like we, you know, we spend a third of our lives at work, so to be able to bring some joy into that instead of maybe just living through a deadline or focusing on that frustrating colleague. And to be able to bring something different into our workday, it’s just so inspiring. And I love that it’s new. And I really hope that people have stayed with us for this and really embrace this as a new tool, as a new way that we can connect our teams, have better relationships with yourself. I mean, I imagine even how people deal with conflict could be different if you put that into a conflict situation and you’re like, do this first, then we can talk about it. I feel like there are so many different ways that you could leverage the power of laughter, and it’s just accessible to all. So I love that! Laugh Like No One is Watching Jenna Pascual: Jenn, I do want to add one more thing too. So today, I led a Laughter Yoga class for a company, and a man was saying that he was doing his Laughter Yoga in his little office. And he was said, he said that he was worried about what people thought outside of his office. And I invited him to, to take that as an opportunity to let go of what other people think. Do you know? So it’s not only just letting go of, you know, your own environment and letting go of how you see yourself in the laughter practice, but also just letting go of what others think of you. Because I think in life, you know, we are, we’re always so worried about what people think of us. If people are judging us, and I just, I want to help more people release that, you know, as long as you’re having fun, that’s all that really matters. Jenn DeWall: Absolutely! Comparison is the thief of joy. Like there’s that expression. I totally agree with you. Like we need to focus on ourselves because that’s where our own, you know when we can strengthen our own values and see that value, that’s when we can become more resilient leaders, that’s when we can become more inspiring and influential leaders. There are so many benefits when we can just like suspend that judgment. Jenna, I’m going to ask you the final question that we ask everyone, that’s a guest on our podcast. And that question is this, what is your leadership habit for success? Jenna Pascual: Scheduling breaks for sure. You know, whether it’s a laughter break or whether it’s just to take a few deep breaths. You know, in today’s society, we value, you know, this go, go, go productive lifestyle. But I truly believe that it’s really the breaks that matter because when we slow down and when we take breaks, that’s when we really get to turn inward, we get to connect to our breath. So I really highly, highly, highly recommended it. For me, personally, I actually set daily alarms. You know, they go off at 11:11, and no matter what I’m doing at 11:11, unless I’m teaching at that time, you know, I will stop whatever I’m doing. And I’ll either take a quick one-minute laughter break, or I will just do some deep breathing for a minute. And so it’s really just carving out the time to slow down. Jenn DeWall: Yes. That is a fantastic tip. Especially leveraging your own technology that you can set alarms. You don’t have to just remind yourself. You can, right now, if you’re listening, you can just say, Hey, maybe it’s 11:11, or maybe it’s 9:05. You know, whatever that is. But you can set a reminder just to help yourself be more present, step out from maybe what you’re looking at, and give yourself a break. And these are all things just to help you have a better quality of life, especially at work. Jenna, thank you so much for joining us on The Leadership Habit podcast. It has been a joy to interview you, and I’ve loved all the laughter. I like, you know, there are parts of me that are still like Holy cow! And I even struggle. Right? But I know that there’s a benefit. So I agree— everyone, give it a shot! Try out Laughter Yoga. I think it’s something different, and this is what we need right now. We’re in the middle of a pandemic, and people need more laughter because we’ve got a lot of stressors in our heads. Jenna, thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to stay tuned because I’ll give you notes in the outro for anyone that wants to connect with Jenna to find out how they can bring laughter or how you can bring laughter into your workforce. Thank you, Jenna. Jenna Pascual: Thanks for everyone out there listening. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of the leadership habit podcast with Jenna Pascual. If you want to connect with Jenna, you book a laughter class with her or your company or your team by visiting laughwithjenna.com, Or you can find the link in our show notes right now she’s offering virtual sessions. It’s great for your company all-hands meetings, weekly wellness offerings, new hire onboarding, etc.. You can also watch Jenna’s laughter videos on instagram@jennaPascual, and you can visit her youtube channel at bit.ly/laughwithjenna to practice voluntary laughter at home. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to share this with your friends. Let’s spread the laughs, and don’t forget to write us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service.   The post Episode 37: How to Reduce Stress and Burnout with Laughter Yoga with Jenna Pascual, RYT appeared first on Crestcom International.

Now more than ever, it is time to embrace inclusive leadership. 70% of Executives now say that diversity and inclusion are important issues to them, and 67% of job seekers say a diverse workforce is important when considering a job offer. Leadership should be inherently inclusive at all times, tapping into the vast resources of diverse backgrounds, experience, and knowledge. Teams that experience their workplace as diverse and inclusive perform better and offer better innovation and decision making abilities. Recently, Crestcom held a live webinar, taking questions from participants all over the world about how to make meaningful changes in their workplaces. It was so great, we decided to release the audio as a podcast!  Join our host, Jenn DeWall as she and Diversity & Inclusion expert, Dr. Tyrone Holmes answer questions about how everyone can embrace inclusive leadership. If you would like to join us for our next webinar, you can register here: Crestcom Featured Webinar Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us on The Leadership Habit Podcast. Today, we are actually going to be sharing with you a conversation that we had a few weeks back with Dr. Tyrone Holmes. This was actually a live webinar event, where we talked about inclusive leadership and what we can do as leaders to create a more inclusive culture by also understanding how bias plays a role in how we lead now, for those that haven’t or have maybe missed our past podcast with Dr. Tyrone Holmes. Let me just tell you a little bit about him. He is a professional speaker consultant and author, and Dr. Holmes has facilitated more than 1500 paid keynotes seminars and classes that I’ve taught participants to connect with others, despite their differences to effectively articulate their messages, to connect with diverse audiences in groups, and to reduce unconscious bias. His most recent book is Making Diversity a Competitive Advantage: 70 Tips to Improve Communication, which is a tool that we can use to build powerful connections in diverse organizations. Dr. Holmes and I sat down and had a conversation. And this topic is just so incredibly important to me because I have a very racially diverse family, and I’ve watched, haven’t experienced personally, but watch the pain that can come from discrimination against those that I love. And so I hope as you listen to this conversation, you think about what you can do and how you can show up differently to create a more inclusive space in your organization or on your team for everyone to thrive. Enjoy the conversation! Embracing Inclusive Leadership Jenn DeWall: We are live! Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Thank you so much for joining Crestcom’s monthly webinar. And this month is a very special month for us. We partner a lot for our leadership development, with the hot leaders in the industry. And typically, our webinars are just me kind of, you know, sharing different ideas. But today, we actually have one of our thought leaders with us. We have Dr. Tyrone Holmes. I’m so excited to have him. You are going to be hearing all of his, his expertise, his insight, his way of how we can move forward as leaders, what we can do to create a more diverse and inclusive space, which is so important. We know that now more than ever, that’s what we need. We need to create a culture where every single person on our team can succeed and thrive. So thank you so much for joining us for embracing inclusive leadership, bringing everyone to the table. We’re going to be talking about everything that we can do to make sure that people have the same opportunity that we can get the most out of our people by seeing them for who they are. This is so exciting. So we’re going to introduce Tyrone Holmes for those that may be unfamiliar with him. He is a speaker and consultant, but he’s also an author, and you can reach him at this contact. And we’re going to share that with you at the end, but while I’m just getting started, please just throw in the chat bar where you are from, where are you joining us from this webinar? Are you joining us from Denver, where I am? Are you joining us from Arizona? Where Tyrone is. We want to see where everyone is right now. We have got, Oh my gosh, we’ve got San Diego here. I love that city. We’ve got Delray Beach, Florida, Ontario, Virginia, UK. So many people. It’s so great to be here with you and just know that we’re going to be connecting as a community to figure out what we can do as leaders to make our places better. So, Tyrone Holmes, he talks all about unconscious bias, essentially understanding our own blind spots and how they can be good the unconscious bias, but sometimes they can lead to really faulty logic and bad decisions, but you’re joining us for just a conversation. So what I want to say right now is I encourage you to leverage that Q&A option at the bottom of your Zoom screen, ask us questions live. We want to be able to answer them. And actually we, I mean Tyrone, because we have his presence for those that have not been on our past webinars. We do these every single month. My name is Jenn Dewall, and I’m a leadership development strategist and facilitator for Crestcom. So that just means that we teach leadership development every single month. And for those that are unfamiliar with us, we are a global leadership development organization that focuses on developing managers into leaders. We truly believe that leaders will give us the change that we want to see in the world. So to start out, I just want to start off with this quote by Verna Myers, who is also someone that’s a thought leader within the diversity and inclusion field. We’re talking about the subject of diversity and inclusion. And diversity is being invited to the party, but inclusion is being asked to dance. So yeah, diversity is making sure that everyone has a place. They all have that invite, but inclusion is making sure that they all feel connected, that they all have that same opportunity. And if we think about equity, that means that we have that equal playing field. I’m going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen. Now we’re going to get into our interview with Tyrone Holmes. Again, I just want to say, I encourage you to leverage the Q&A because we want this to be as interactive as possible. So we would love to hear from you! Tyrone, before we go into it, just please, could you introduce yourself because I’m sure I did not do you justice, but could you please just introduce yourself and tell our audience what you do, what your expertise is, and what you love about diversity and inclusion? Meet Dr. Tyrone Holmes Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Sure. First of all, thank you for having me. I’m really excited to be here, and I want to thank all of you who are participating for the gift of your presence and participation. And who am I? Basically, I’m asked this question all the time, and the way I answer it is I talk about what it is that I do professionally. And I am a professional speaker, a coach, and a consultant. And what I focus on I’ve been doing this for the better part of a quarter of a century is that I help people build powerful connections. I help individuals develop the skills that allow them to communicate, to resolve conflict, to solve problems, and to reduce bias in culturally diverse settings. And I think the question is, what do I, what I really enjoy about this? What I really enjoy is being able to work with individuals, to work with teams, to work with groups, to work with departments, to work with divisions, to work with organizations, to help their employees develop those skill sets because the fact of the matter is that we live in a society where we do not always connect effectively. We live in a society where we do not always bond and build relationships that allow us to be as successful as we can be. And I think that there are probably just a few things that we need to do in order to be more effective with that, to build those relationships and build those powerful connections, to use our similarities as a bridge over our differences. And so I’m excited, and I’ve always enjoyed being able to help people identify a step or two that they can take to do that effectively. And so I’m excited to be here and looking forward to having a great conversation. Where do we Begin to Create an Inclusive Workplace Jenn DeWall: Yes! Diversity, equity, and inclusion is such a broad topic. And there’s so much to unpack there. Where is a place to start? Where do you think that leaders can start to bring this into their organization to create a more inclusive space? Where, where do you start as a leader? Because it can be really overwhelming, Oh, we need to change this. Oh, we need to do that. Where do you even begin to feel like you can chip away and really create that inclusive space? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: There are a lot of places you can start. And I’m not saying that what I’m about to say is what everyone should actually go out there and do necessarily there, there could be some differences in perspective in terms of where you want to start, but this is what I always suggest. And that is to answer the following question, what do we need to do to create environments that maximize the likelihood of success for a diverse array of people? And of course, the answer to that question can be different for different organizations. It can be different for different teams. It could be different for different departments, but I think a great place to start is how do we go about creating environments that maximize the likelihood of success for a diverse array of people? Because most environments are actually going to maximize success for a certain group of people first, for a certain type of person based on their race or their ethnicity or their gender or their age, or their background or their, their expertise, their knowledge base, whatever that might be, but it might not necessarily facilitate the success of some people that don’t fit within that particular class or that particular group of individuals. And so that, that first question I would suggest is, think about, okay, what do we need to do well, do we need to do anything differently? That allows us to maximize the success for a diverse range of people and to have some discussion around that. And ask some conversation around that, because if you do some brainstorming and you throw that question out, was it was a diverse group of people within your organization. You do some brainstorming, and you’re probably going to get some insights about, well, here are some things that we’re not doing that might make us more effective. How do Inclusive Leaders have Uncomfortable Conversations? Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Things like making it, you know, even with our recruiting processes or our onboarding processes. I know that you talk about that. You know, a lot of understanding how we can actually remove bias, but you know, one big thing that I think we see out there is that initiating the conversation can be a little intimidating. And so one of the questions that we received, so just for everyone on the webinar, we did actually receive a group of questions that we’re going to be following through, but we still want to hear from you. But one of the questions that we received from someone is I’m not really comfortable talking about race in the workplace. How and where do I start? Especially if you might be like, I know myself, I would be considered the white woman that has more privilege. And I know that there are some people that are like, how do I even initiate that conversation? How do I show people that I am an inclusive leader? How do you start that, that what is perceived to be a very difficult or maybe even an uncomfortable conversation? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: That’s a great question. And I really wanted us to spend some time talking about this. And I have a couple of thoughts about that. First and foremost, what I want people to know is that it is okay to feel uncomfortable. And sometimes I think that we don’t do a very good job of pointing out the fact that anything that takes us out of our comfort zone is going to, of course, make us feel uncomfortable. And for many, many people talking about issues of race and ethnicity and similar topics, it’s going to take us out of our comfort zone. It’s not what we’re used to. It’s not what we do on a regular basis. And so we’re going to feel a level of discomfort. That’s okay. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. And what I always suggest is to make sure those conversations start and really focus on things related to how we can become more effective as an organization, how we can become more effective as a team, how we can become more effective as individuals. So, in other words, I’m not necessarily a big advocate, particularly starting out of having general conversations about race and ethnicity. And the reason I say that, and some people might say why I think we should have those conversations. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have the conversations. I’m saying that I wouldn’t start that way. But what I start with is— how can we have conversations as it relates to race and ethnicity, where we focus on— how do we help certain groups of people become more effective in this organization? That’s a slightly different conversation. We’re not having a general conversation about race and race and ethnicity so much as we’re having the conversation about how we can actually change policy or how we can actually change practices. So we maximize the likelihood of success for a diverse array of people. And I think having those conversations that are related to how we operate as an organization, how we operate as a business, how we operate as an entity and what we need to do a little bit differently to make sure that we are broadening our reach of people who can be included and could be a part of that process are good and easier conversations to have. Practicing Inclusive Leadership: Start Listening Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I appreciate that. It’s not necessarily initiating a conversation about race, you know, Hey this, how do you experience that? But it’s, it sounds like what you’re saying is to reframe our question, what is the question or the problem that we’re trying to solve? How can we create a more inclusive place for all to thrive? And I think that’s great because it’s, you know, I think initially people might say, well, let’s, let’s have a conversation and talk about race, but that’s not necessarily, it may bring some trust. It, maybe it brings some awareness, but that’s not necessarily bringing the action into what you can do to actually serve underrepresented people, which brings us to the next question. How can I, as a leader, create access and opportunity for underrepresented groups within my organization? How, how can I do that? Because I may not necessarily have the title, or I may not perceive myself to have influence, so what can I do as an individual? Or you can talk to different, I guess, levels within the organization, but what can we do to create more opportunities for underrepresented groups? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: I think the best way to start with that (inclusive leadership) is simply talking to members of underrepresented groups within your organization. And ask them what’s missing. Ask them what are some things here that are missing that would make your experience a more effective one. That would make your connection with your organization a more effective one? What are some steps that we can take that we can help to more effectively bring people within the organization in ways that will allow them to be successful? One of the things that, and just so everybody knows, Jenn and I talked about different questions that we might pose, and we might discuss. And I think we came up with about a dozen working questions that we may or may not get to. But one of the things that really struck me as I went through the questions is that a lot of those questions could be answered very, very simply with just a couple of things. One is listening. One of the things that we need to take some time to do is to listen to people. To listen to people who are culturally different. To listen to people who might be quote-unquote outsiders in the organization, meaning that they are, they’re not connected within the organization to listen to what their concerns are. Listen to what their ideas are; listen to what they have to say. And another thing that we can do that relates to this is to be empathetic, to genuinely try to understand where people are coming from is the best definition I’ve ever seen of empathy or heard of empathy is putting on another person’s shoes, walking around in them and experiencing the world from their perspective. And it’s not something I think we take much time to do in our society today. And I get it. We got tons of things to do. We’re always busy. We’re always running around crazy. I totally get that. But if we listen more and if we, we endeavor to try and understand where people are coming from, I think that goes a long way by itself to helping individuals who are underrepresented group members have more of a voice. You have more of a connection for the organization who feel like someone actually cares about what’s going on and what it is that they’re dealing with and some of the struggles that they may be having. So those are just some basic things. On a more procedural standpoint, one of the things that I always suggest is to think about how you bring people into your organization. Think about it from a recruitment standpoint, from an interviewing standpoint list selection standpoint. Then once you make a decision to bring somebody in for an onboarding standpoint, and as you said, Jenn, I’m really big into unconscious bias and understanding how our biases interfere with our ability to be effective within an organization. One of the things that we know is that various biases get in the way of all those types of things in terms of the process and the interviewing process and the selection process and these onboarding process. And so another thing that we can do is to think about how our biases may negatively impact those who are underrepresented group members, think about how our biases may have a negative impact on our ability to effectively recruit, to select into the onboard individuals. So those are just some, some basic things that we can do, and then there are other things as well. But I think that’s a great start- to listen, to genuinely understand and demonstrate empathy, and to really consider how our biases can interfere with our ability to do those things are all really, really powerful steps that we can take. Inclusive Leadership and Affinity Bias Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And I think even for some people just creating your initial awareness of your bias, I know that I worked for a large corporation and one of the biases you talk about is affinity bias and, or the “like me” bias, you know, gravitating towards people that are most like you. And I know that I worked for an organization throughout my career where it was very easy to pinpoint who worked there. I could also pinpoint who was going to get promoted based on what they looked like, not actually, or necessarily based on their competence or ability to do their job. And that is a flaw that is a tremendous flaw. And I don’t think you necessarily realize it because, in the beginning, I think it was like, Oh, look at how many friends I have or how many connections were so similar. And that’s great. You can have a lot of friends. It’s great for socialization. It’s great for a lot of different things. But what you don’t realize is that there’s someone missing from that picture. There are people missing from that picture that, when you add them in, can bring that growth. So even if you think about, because I think for some people, they may not necessarily realize initially who could be part of an underrepresented group, who are those individuals that our organization is not serving because we might be so acclimated to seeing people look, think, act in a certain way. Not sure if you have any comments about like affinity bias, know, I know you can take that to a different level, but I do think that maybe it’s just my own personal bias, saying that I noticed that so much. So I, I wonder if there are other people that also have that, where they look around their organization, and they’re like, we’re pretty similar. And you know, maybe even talking about the detriment that happens when we’re all the same. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Yeah. And I think that’s a really important consideration. And I said affinity bias is my favorite bias. Not cause it’s a good bias or anything like that. It’s my favorite to talk about. And it’s my favorite to talk about— because it is so pervasive, and every single human being is affected by it. It is impossible not to be affected by an affinity bias. And the reason is that, and just so we’re all on the same page by definition, affinity bias is a natural human tendency to gravitate towards those who proceeded to be most like ourselves. And therefore, away from those that are perceived to be less like ourselves, the way I like to put it is that we like to hang out with people who look like us and walk like us and talk like us and think like us and act like us. And I always emphasize that as a natural human condition. And it’s born out of wanting to stay in our comfort zone. Our comfort zone is the psychologically safe space. And it allows us to be in a place where we’re relatively stress-free, where we will have relatively little tension and anxiety. Where we feel comfortable in our comfort zone, and it’s a place that we want to be. It’s also one of the most powerful forces that keep us separate from people that we perceive to be different from ourselves. It makes it more difficult to build bridges across those cultural differences because we have to step outside of our comfort zone and deal with that. One of the things that I emphasize organizationally, and this actually also help to address a lot of questions that we’re going to talk about is that as a leader, anything you can do to create opportunities for people to interact with those, they don’t normally have a chance to interact with, or learn about those they don’t normally have a chance to learn about we’ll begin the process of reducing affinity bias. It will allow people to begin to expand their comfort zones, and it will also allow people who are culturally different to have opportunities to connect across those differences more effectively. So it’s a really, really important consideration. And again, and I, and I want to kind of build this theme that none of us has to do the really difficult stuff. I know some of this stuff might be psychologically difficult, but in terms of implementation, it’s not like you got to spend 40 hours a week doing it. If we just actually step outside of our comfort zone and start to connect with people who are different from us, that goes miles and miles and miles to creating environments for maximizing the likelihood of success for a diverse array of people. If we just give opportunities for people to do that, and you can do it by doing simple things like icebreaker activities and team building activities. Or if you’re a leader and you’re assigning work, giving people who don’t normally have a chance to interact with each other, give them a chance at doing the course of their work, to engage with one another and to build a relationship that way. Those are all things that reduce affinity bias. Those are all things that help who are underrepresented group members, build connections within your organization. Those are all things that allow us to build more powerful relationships and build more powerful connections and ultimately be more effective at the work that we’re trying to do. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. I love the idea of being able to think about how we can educate, how we can share, and how we can initiate conversations or opportunities where people can learn more. I’ve heard of organizations, you know, celebrating different cultural holidays that represented different people in their organization, just as a way to obviously acknowledge, but educate people that we are all uniquely different. And we all do have things to learn and just to share with each other. Because I think there’s a lot that we can share and in a beautiful way that can make us better, make us think differently. But I love the icebreakers, just getting people like what are other things you’ve heard of? I don’t know if you’ve heard of anything else that other organizations are doing, but I know that setting up maybe even lunch and learns. Giving people the opportunity to say, Hey, do you want to know more about what Ramadan is or what, you know, another like religious celebration or just a general celebration? Like, do you want to know more about that? Inclusive Leadership Builds Connections Dr. Tyrone Holmes: And that’s a good way of doing it. I’ve actually been a facilitator at lunch and learns for various organizations where we were talking about a particular topic. People can come in, bring their lunch, and just have a discussion around that. There are town hall meetings where there’s a particular topic that people are gonna have a conversation around all of the key to that since you might actually get quite a few people to come to those meetings is to have a really good facilitator that can facilitate that discussion. I’ve seen things like that. I’ve seen basically team-building type activities where you have your tech team spending hours, maybe doing some activities that allow them to get to know each other a little bit better—just doing fun things. And you don’t even need to spend an hour. You can literally if you have a meeting in your you’re going to have a meeting for the next hour, you might actually spend the first 10 minutes of that meeting, doing something that gives people a chance on your team to get to know each other in ways that they did not have before. So those are all things that help us build more powerful connections and build more powerful relationships and expand our comfort zones. As we get to know and engage people who we may have perceived as being culturally different, but one of the things that are really powerful. And in fact, let me, let me take a step back. I’ll say this quickly, but I have an activity that I’ve done for years, and I call it 90-second introductions. And it’s a really simple activity to do. And it’s really, really a revealing activity and how it works is I’ll have a group of people, and usually I’m doing a workshop or keynote or presentation. And what I do is I have people pair up with someone that they don’t know. They don’t know it all, but they don’t know very well. And what I have them do is I say for the next 90 seconds, talk about what you have in common. Talk about just similarity. So they’re in a pair, and they’re having these conversations about the things that they have in common. And then I say, okay, great. Now for the next 90 seconds, I want you to talk about your differences. And so give them 90 seconds to talk about what’s different. And then I have everybody sit back down. I asked a single question. That is, what did you learn? And the number one response that I’ve gotten after doing this dozens and dozens of times over the last 20-25 years is that it was much harder coming up with differences and similarities, or we have more common than I would have ever realized. And one of the things that I use as a teaching point, and I wanted to use this example now is that I don’t care about the situation, I don’t care what the circumstances are. I don’t care what your organization does. The fact of the matter is at individuals who are culturally different will virtually always have far more in common than they have that is different. The problem is we don’t do a very good job of using our commonalities and our similarities to build a bridge across differences. And if we give people a chance to connect and converse and to interact with one another across those differences, they can start to build those bridges, and they can start to interact much more effectively. And then those who are underrepresented, they’re going to actually buy by virtue of having done that, build those connections that allow them to become more interactive within the organization, become more like insiders as opposed to outsiders where they feel like the outside looking in. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love just the simple, it seems so much more approachable by saying, you know, even that example of the activity that you did, 90 seconds talking about, you know, what you have the same 90 seconds talking about your differences. But really, the point there is, how can you leverage your commonalities to build a bridge to make your team more cohesive and connected? That, to me, is, I know, it seems so simple, like using your commonalities to build the bridge, but it’s also very accessible for people. I, I love, I love, love, love that activity. That’s something that I encourage everyone to do. Go back and see if you can do that on your team and figure out how you can leverage it. Let’s Take Some Questions from the Audience! Jenn DeWall: Yeah. All right, Tyrone. Are you ready for the live questions? Ready? All right. So we’ve got one from Elena. Thank you so much for writing in the questions! When looking at a systemic approach involving more than a single department or organization, how have you found the implementation, a person-first language, trauma-informed approaches, and bias training most successful and sustainable? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: That’s a handful. And actually, let me, let me, let me take a bit of a step back. What I’m going to suggest is two things in terms of creating success first. And you, you identify some really interesting things in terms of unconscious bias training, person-first language, things of that nature, which are really, really powerful and really important. But the first thing I’m going to suggest is that whenever you do this,  when it comes to diversity and inclusion because this is the biggest mistake that I’ve seen people make. And I’ve been doing this for a quarter of a century, and that mistake is failing to connect what they’re trying to do with their diversity and inclusion efforts through their strategic objectives. So the first thing that you want to do is you want to make sure that anything that you do from a training standpoint, from an educational standpoint, you want to make sure that it directly connects to your organization’s strategic objectives. That’s the first step. And you want to be able to define how that connects so that if you’re doing, for example, unconscious bias training, or if you’re doing training and helping people develop the ability to utilize a person-first language. You want to make sure that you can say, this is the strategic objective. That’s part of the organization’s vision and strategic plan. This is how it’s going to help achieve a particular objective or objectives in that strategic plan or those strategic goals. So you want to be able to do— that’s number one. Jenn DeWall: Can I just ask you for a quick example of that? Would it be like, what would an example of aligning that with a strategic goal? Could it be something like by making sure that, or I guess I’m going to leave it to you? What would be an example of that? Inclusive Leadership Ties Diversity and Inclusion Initiatives to Strategic Objectives Dr. Tyrone Holmes: One example might be our strategic objective might be the organization wants to tap into some different markets in terms of its sales and marketing efforts. And maybe they want to take advantage of the multicultural market. And they want to actually get clients and customers that are different from historically with some of the clients and customer bases that they’ve had. So one of the things that you might say is that you might need to do certain types of training to give people an opportunity to do that. That’s an example of that. That’s an example of, if you want to increase your, your revenues and you want to increase your sales in a particular area, people might need certain types of training in order to do that. That gives you an opportunity to actually do some diversity and inclusion type work designed to do that. Another thing that might be— is that I’ve seen organizations where one of their goals is to reduce their expenses and to reduce perhaps their human resources expenses. Because if they’ve been problematic, just by way of example, one area might be turnover. And one of the things that we know from research is that bias leads to bad internal individuals who perceive bias within an organization, or much more likely to leave that organization and individuals who don’t receive bias within that organization. So we’ll another step might be, is proactively work on reducing a bias within our organization. That’s likely to reduce that turnover, which is one of the things that we’re trying to do in terms of our strategic objective, which is to reduce our HR expenses. And so those are just a couple of examples, and you get the idea, but you just want to make sure that whatever you’re trying to do, it connects to those strategic objectives, because if it does it, it’s going to fail. And I no longer hem and haw about that. If what you’re trying to accomplish in terms of your diversity and inclusion processes within your organization, do not directly and cannot be very clearly articulated how they connect to your strategic objectives. You will fail if people aren’t going to take it seriously. And even if they’re, there is a cohort of people who are really driven to do that over time; they just want to get done. They’re going to be disappointed in the lack of connection and that connectivity to what they’re doing and what everybody else is doing because people just don’t see how it connects with strategic objectives. And so that’s really important. The other thing I wanna say in answering that question real quickly is that the question was framed in terms of you’re trying to do something across various departments and things of that nature. I’m a big advocate of baby steps. I’m a big advocate of starting out small and making sure it connects to organizational objectives. Starting with strategic objectives, but starting out relatively small in a particular area where, and this is just between us people, it’s just between us, where you can be almost guaranteed when you want to make sure that you have it set up early on to where it is, is connected to strategic objectives. And you’re likely to have some success in terms of people’s buy-in, in terms of people’s participation. And in terms of people trying to make this successful, you want to build up a wave of success. And the best way to do that is to start small and watch it grow as opposed to trying to take it out across department after department, all at the same time where it’s going to be more difficult; you’re going to face more opposition. And, and I’m not saying you won’t be successful because it’s connected to strategic objectives, you’ve got a chance. But it’s going to make it more difficult. And so those are two things that I suggest in terms of that- make short strategic connections, strategic objectives, and look for some early, relatively easy wins to make sure that you can build some successes. How Can We Address Affinity Bias in Recruiting? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. Baby steps. You don’t have to have everything figured out, and it’s not going to be a one size fits all for your organization. Like, yes, we wish that we could put that through and say, every organization looks like that because every organization is diverse by the nature of it being its own organization and entity. So the baby steps are again, just another way. I love that you’re giving so many goods, just small ways that we can approach us because it can really quickly get overwhelming. I’m going to go to another question. And this one goes back to your favorite affinity bias, and this is from Faheem. Thank you so much for submitting it. Can you give examples of how affinity bias has been addressed and dealt with by giving positive results? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Sure. I’ll give you a really simple example, a big client, and I don’t want to paint the picture that this is the only place that affinity bias manifests itself because it manifests itself in a lot of different places. But I think one of the biggest places that affinity bias manifests itself is in the recruitment process because we tend to recruit people who are like us. I mean, Jenn, you would use an example where you went into an organization. You could actually see that is that we tend to bring people into our organizations who make us feel comfortable fit within our comfort zone. That means that they probably are very similar to us when it comes to how they think, how they act, and so on and so forth. And so one way to do that and I’ve actually seen organizations do this is to look at how you go about recruiting people and one type of recruitment process, which I, I’m not criticizing. I think this is a good recruitment process. But it is rife with affinity bias- employee referrals. They tend to be very common. A lot of organizations tend to use employee referrals when it comes to their recruitment process, and they have, which basically means for those don’t know where employees of the organization actually identify potential new employees for the organization. And it might be that I worked for an organization and I’ve got a friend or someone that I know that I think is a good fit. I know we’re looking for a person that has their capabilities. And so I invite them in and introduce them to people in the organization and see what happens. The reality is that that almost guarantees there’s going to be a level of affinity bias in terms of people doing that. So that’s a potential problem area. Now, what is a potential solution? Well, there’s a couple of things. One is, and I said this before, we all have affinity bias, and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. But one of the things that you can do is that you can ensure that you have a diverse array of individuals who are actually engaged in that recruitment process because while we may all have affinity bias, that affinity bias is going to probably encompass different people. So if you have people of different ages, people of different ethnicities, people of different races, people of different genders, people of different sexual orientations who are engaged in that, that employee referral process, yes. Guess what? You’re going to probably have a pretty diverse group of individuals who are going to be considered for positions coming to your organization. So that’s one way of thinking about the potential manifestation of affinity bias, and then identifying a way to tamp down and to reduce that negative impact. Just having, having a diverse array of people who are actively out there doing the search process, actively out there looking for individuals. And that can be very, very successful. What About “Reverse Racism”? Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for answering that. We keep getting more questions. So this is fantastic. I’m going to quickly scroll back because, again, remember, this is an open dialogue. We want you to ask us questions. We don’t necessarily want to follow the script. We want to provide you the answers to things that you’ve been thinking about. We want to be able to serve you in the most personal way. That’s why Tyrone is here with us today. So we’ve got another question, and I think this is a good one too. How do you focus- and this came from Jeff. Thank you so much, Jeff. How do you focus on underserved communities without being accused of or having reverse bias? It’s a big question. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Yeah, it is. Okay. Part of my personality is going to come out on this one and, and take it for what it is. Jenn DeWall: Let it out, Tyrone, let it out. Hey, diversity and inclusion is about us being who we are. Let it out. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: I hear that a lot about people accusing individuals of reverse racism or reverse any of the isms. And I’ve kind of gotten to the point where it’s a nonsensical accusation. So I kind of don’t pay attention to it anymore. I’m not saying you shouldn’t because you’re in, in the heart of it. And so you have to deal with it on a certain level. And I can give you some tips for dealing with it, but I’ve been doing this for a while, and I’ve kind of gotten to the place where there are things people will say, and there are things that people will do to prevent you from being successful with doing, and that’s one of those things. The other thing that people just, just as a quick aside, and they’ll answer the question, the other thing that people will often say is that we only recruit, select and hire the best of the best, which is also a nonsensical saying, cause that’s what everybody does is they try to identify and hire the people who are to ultimately work most effectively in the organization. But what that also means is that that’s, that’s another element of affinity bias. When people say, we look for the best fit, what they’re really saying is for people that make me feel the most comfortable and the ones that I want to come to work with, which are the people who look like me and walk like talk like me and think like me and act like me. And so sometimes people say that honestly, and they mean it honestly, but the reality is that that’s what that is. So that was my long-winded way of saying I wouldn’t worry so much about what people have to say as it relates to that. What I would focus on— which is the first part of it— is how do you reach out to underrepresented individuals and communities? And you simply start by having a conversation and listening. I said earlier that a lot of, of what we’re talking about is not cognitively complex, difficult to do, because it really comes down to it. At least not cognitively. Now the physical act of doing it because we are stepping outside of our comfort zone can be difficult. I totally get that. But the reality is that you start to build connections. You start to build relationships; you start to build structure in terms of your interactions with others, by reaching out and starting a conversation. Reaching out and starting an interaction where you can have some great dialogue, and that’s how you do it. And you can, you can. I actually do it in a structured way. You can actually say to members of an underrepresented group or underrepresented community; this is what we’re trying to accomplish. We are trying to reduce the barriers between what is referred to as insiders and outsiders, those on the inside and those underrepresented group members on the outside, we realized that barriers to access, we realize it’s difficult to get in, and we’re genuinely committed to wanting to create an environment that maximizes the likelihood of success for a diverse range of people. So we want to start engaging some conversation about what you need from us. What is it that you’re dealing with? What is it that you’d like to see happen? What is it that you like from a resource standpoint that will make, that might make this more effective and more helpful, and to listen and to understand it’s really that simple. To have that conversation or to create opportunities for people to come together to have those kinds of conversations. And I wouldn’t worry. I would do that. And I wouldn’t worry about the small number of individuals who might have something negative to say about that, because they’re going to just have something negative to say about it. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to get in the way of what you’re trying to accomplish. And do, I should say, I’ll say one of those things, when you do this type of work, when you do diversity inclusion activities, you’re going to get a lot of people to support it, but you’re going to have some people who don’t do not think or do not feel that you have to have everyone on board before you take off and start to do the things you’re trying to do. That’s another mistake organizations make. That’s another mistake people who are focusing on the diversity and inclusion process may is that we’ve got to get everybody on board, and we’ve got to get buy-in from everyone before we do. If you get buy-in from everyone, I guarantee its because you are doing something that’s not going to be worthwhile. We’re going to have people that aren’t advocates of it. That’s fine. You can still go ahead and do it. Now. It’s helpful if the people that are advocates are people who, for example, in the C-suite, those of your, your, your CEO, your chief executive officer, your chief operations officer, people like that, those you really do want to get the buy-in from it and want to make sure that they’re on board, but there’s going to be others that are never going to buy into it. You just have to continue to work on what you’re trying to do. Jenn DeWall: And I think a big part of that is, you know, trying to understand that reverse racism can exist but also understanding that how you show up your own mindset of just coming from that place of curiosity, I’m here to learn. I don’t have all the answers. I’m doing the best that I can. And come into that conversation also with that, Hey, you know, I just don’t know where to start. And this is the starting point that I have. I’m not; I don’t have the answers. I don’t know everything that we’re supposed to do. I just want, I know that we can do better. I sometimes think, you know, starting with that and that common ground. Hey, it’s, and it’s what you said. It’s not like you have an agenda. You’re not just trying to play with the trend of diversity and inclusion. You’re here to learn to understand and to connect. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Can I add one more thing, Jenn? This is on account that you have to keep in mind— there’s no such thing as reverse racism, reverse sexism or reverse ageism or any of those kinds of things. Racism, sexism, ageism simply ARE. There is no reverse to any of them. That’s number one. Number two is, and I think this maybe is going to be helpful is that sometimes to make the argument and I kind of get intuitively where people are coming from. I don’t agree with it, but I kind of get where they’re coming from. They make the argument that if you proactively do things to help members of a particular group, then you are hurting members of the other. So, for example, if you proactively try to help underrepresented group members, what represented members are being treated unfairly. But one of the things that I learned a long time ago is that equity is not treating everyone the same. It’s treating everyone fairly. And that means you may want to treat some people differently because they may need more assistance than others. That’s what equity is really about. And that’s what, that’s something that I always suggest that you really, really get in your mind and be prepared to have that conversation. Because you may have to have that conversation is that equity is not about treating everyone the same. It’s treating everyone fairly. And that means the behaviors you exhibit may have to be a little bit different simply because some individuals may need more assistance than others. So just, just be mindful of that. Doing a Survey of Your Team? Make Sure You Plan to use the Data. Jenn DeWall: That’s a great point to add in, you know, and I think that you know, it alleviates some of the confusion that people have around what really equity is and what that means for your organization. Right? I, to go to another question, this is from an anonymous attendee. I work for a state government agency. And for the first time, our senior leadership is asking employees to fill out a survey about equity, diversity, and inclusion, but employees have seen little results of many other surveys. What are you, how would you encourage employees to ask the C-suite leadership? What are the plans for the data collected? Dr. Tyrone Holmes: I would simply ask that. I would simply pose the question. What’s the purpose of this survey, and how will the data be used? One of the things and I get where the question’s coming from because the leadership in that organization has made a mistake. You do not ever. And this, this is kind of like a data collection 101 if you will, you do not ever ask people to participate in a survey, get the results and then never do anything with it. That’s just setting yourself up for failure. It’s just like I said; it’s data collection 101. And it sounds like they’ve collected data, but they haven’t necessarily done anything with it, or they haven’t announced plans for what they’re going to do with it in the future. And so I think it’s a perfectly valid question to say, what is this data going to be used for? We really like the idea that you’re trying to collect some information, but are you going to do anything with it other than just collect the data? And so that’s a perfectly valid question. And as, as an external consultant, one of the things that I would say their leadership is don’t ask questions that you don’t want the answers to. And don’t ask questions that you don’t plan on doing anything with those answers because it just sets up- you’re much better off not doing anything at all than doing a survey and doing nothing with the survey. Jenn DeWall: Hey, they gave us another survey again, that they’re not going to do anything about. It’s just— it can create that a little bit of disengagement. You’re why are you asking this? You’re showing us that you’re you, you care, right? Those are your words, but your actions are totally different. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Absolutely. What are Underrepresented Groups Missing in the Workplace? Jenn DeWall: I’ve got another question, and it says, this is going back to Tyrone’s comment about asking the underrepresented groups, what is missing that would make your experience here better. What type of answers do you think they would give? And that’s from Tali. Thank you so much, Tali. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: That’s a great question. I think there’s a broad range of responses. I mean, some responses that have, I’ve seen the answers to some of those questions. And one of the things we fixed it back. Well, before I did this work, I actually worked in higher education. I was a cost professor for six years, four years at Wayne state university in Detroit, and three years at Eastern Michigan University, before that. And I also worked in student affairs prior to that, where I was at first, a director of residence halls where I was responsible for three different residence halls. I was a coordinator of residence hall programs, and I also worked as an assistant director of student activities and the student union. And the reason I went back to that is that a lot of what we did was do that work was really trying to find out about students’ experience and what, what would allow them to be more successful. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: And there’s a connection here in terms of working with at that time, underrepresented students within the university or community, as well as doing the same thing within a business setting, corporate, governmental setting. And one of the things that strike me is it’s almost hard to describe in terms of specificity, but it really comes down to the feelings people have. And it’s feelings of disconnect; its feelings of this are really for me, it’s for someone else. And one of the things that I struggled and still struggled today with is that it’s hard to put into words Jenn DeWall: Back up for a second. I lost a little bit of your audio, and I just want to make sure we get that comment. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Okay. It’s how far back you want me to go? Jenn DeWall: Probably a minute back, so you don’t have to go with it. Inclusive Leadership Creates Opportunities for Mentorship and Connection with Significant Insiders Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Okay. So just real quickly it was, I was bringing in my experience working in higher education where we would ask similar questions of students, and we would get the students, the underrepresented student of elite members who were students who would have similar responses. And those responses would be around the idea that it would, and it would be somewhat ambiguous. It wouldn’t be there wouldn’t be specificity to it. It would be some ambiguity to it. And it would be things around, “this doesn’t seem like a place for me. This, this doesn’t seem like it’s, it’s, it’s designed for people who look like me and who come from where I come from.” And I think that it’s similar. In some instances, when you ask those questions of people in the workplace, and they’ll say, well, I just don’t feel a connection here. So what I really think people are saying is that culturally, they have existed in a different space than what they’re experiencing in the workplace. And so I said all that to say the following. I think one of the things that are important when you do this kind of work is that you have to bring out the, and you have to; it isn’t always easy to get to. We, you have to bring out, okay, what would that actually look like? What would we be experiencing? And I found out when it was students, what they would be experiencing is more students who look like them. That was a big part of it, but this place doesn’t seem like it’s for me, it’s because they didn’t have a lot of students that look like them. And it would probably be the same case in terms of employees, employees who look like them. But in addition, giving them opportunities and, this, here’s some specificity giving people opportunities to build connectivity with individuals in the organizations in some type of systematic way. Now I’m going to give you two quick examples. One of the things, or two of the things that can be solutions to helping underrepresented members and build connections with organizations, are mentoring and employee resource groups. Now mentoring is more of a one on one relationship where most of us know mentoring is where, where there’s a mentor, and there’s a protege. And that mentor works with that protege to help facilitate his or her psychological career and otherwise other elements of their development. So that’s that relationship. Employee resource groups are actually groups designed for a particular cohort of employees. So it could be African American employees. It could be veterans; it could be older employees. It could be individuals with particular skill sets, but they’re designed to get people who are typically underrepresented group members, a chance to connect with similar underrepresented group members and build relationships with significant leadership and significant insiders within the organization that said all that to say the following what’s typically missing for people who are underrepresented group members, is the ability to build those connections. However, they articulate this, and this is my long-winded way of arriving this. But however, they articulate it. When they’re asked the questions about what’s missing, that’s what’s missing. Their ability to build connections with significant insight is within the organization. That’s, what’s missing two ways to do that is mentoring and employee resource groups, and both can work tremendously. Well, the thing about mentoring is that the problem with mentoring is that if you’re an underrepresented group member, you’re less likely to get a mentor than if you are a quote-unquote representative member. It can be a little bit more difficult for you to find a mentor, which is why there are formal mentoring programs in many organizations, but they work very, very well doing that. And so what typically is missing just, in summary, is the inability to effectively connect with key insiders within your organization. And mentoring and employee resource groups are or way of actually addressing. So it kind of took a circuitous route was a little long-winded, but that’s, that’s what typically when people are saying that what’s missing a lot of times, it’s ambiguous, but what they’re really saying is I’m not building the connections with people. I need to build the entities. I need to build connections to be successful in this organization. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. I don’t feel connected. And we know that as leaders or the basic human needs, we want to feel seen and heard. And at work, we want to feel valued and who wouldn’t want to feel connected. Every single person wants to feel connected. Even that person that might be a little, you might think they’re resistant, we all want to feel seen and heard. So just remembering that I love the idea of mentoring and employee resource groups. We’ve got another, we have so many questions coming in, and I don’t know if you’d be willing to do this, but I can also send you these after. And you could maybe, you know, send out a video to our group to answer some of them. How can you increase the diversity of your leadership pipeline, both from outside and internally? And it kind of goes with another question that someone had asked really about how can you dispel or erode nepotism? So I’m going to put those two together, and that’s from Evan and Yogi. Thank you so much. To Recruit a High Quality, Culturally Diverse Team- Go to Where They Are Dr. Tyrone Holmes: Let me start with the second one. The nepotism one is hard. And the reason is that that’s a manifestation of affinity bias and there, there there are some structural things that you can do. So, for example, you can add, some companies actually have anti-nepotism policies that basically say, if you’re related to a person at a certain level in the organization, you can’t work in the organization, or you can’t work in that part of the organization. So that’s one way you can start to do that other organizations have done. Another thing you can do is if you don’t want to be that stringent, you can actually make sure that the person who is related to a candidate is not at all involved in their selection process for them. So those are a couple of things that you can do. The first question is really, we could do a workshop on that, and I’ve done workshops on recruiting and retaining a high quality, culturally diverse workforce. Let me, let me try to simplify it the way you do it is you go to where they are. I’ll say that again, the way you recruit a high quality, culturally diverse workforce, you go to where they are. Now. Here is why relatively few organizations are actually effective at recruiting a high quality, culturally diverse workforce is because they utilize traditional methodology, methodologies, and traditional techniques for their recruitment and selection process. And that will tend to get a relatively mono-cultural group of individuals. That doesn’t mean they get a bad group of individuals. They may have some very, very good individuals there, but they don’t cast the very broad net. One of the things that you have to do, if you want to recruit a high quality culturally diverse candidate pool, and you’ll notice that I keep saying high quality, culturally diverse, it’s easier to distribute a culturally diverse candidate pool. But if it’s not high quality. Then you’re doing yourself a disservice. You want to make sure in your efforts to recruit a high-quality, culturally diverse workforce, that you are really getting top-notch people. And so you have to go to where they are. So just by way of example, if you’re looking for somebody who is in a leadership role in the insurance industry, just, and this is just one example, this is not the only way of doing it, but you’re looking for a leader in the insurance industry. There are undoubtedly organizations that cater to quote-unquote underrepresented members who are leaders in the insurance industry. You start to build relationships with those organizations. You start to go to some of their meetings. You start to interact with the individuals who are a part of that association. Guess what? Sooner or later, it’s going to be sooner. You start to identify people who are really good candidates for positions within your organization. Same thing, if you, if you are looking for a better, or looking for really good women leaders, there are tons of women, leadership organizations, and associations. You start to build relationships with them. You start to let them know about the positions that you have available. Go to where they are, when you know that there are individuals that are going to be there that meet the qualifications. You’re looking for. You actually start sourcing those individuals, and you start tapping into those resources. It’s I don’t want to make it sound like it’s really easy because it takes work. This is something that does take work. You’ve got to actually spend some time doing it, but it’s a relatively straightforward process. Jenn DeWall: Well, I think if I go back and reflect, I know that there are some organizations, I’m from Wisconsin. I went to a Big 10 school, and I know that there are actually a lot of organizations in the Midwest that will say, well, we’re just going to go to the Big 10 schools. And that’s where we’ll post up. And that probably is a sign right there that you’re going to have a more similar group of people. Then maybe expanding your search, going to different universities and colleges that have different specialties, or just are in different areas. So I know that that could be a blind spot. You know which again, everything’s going through. I’m like, Oh, that’s why we were also connected because we all went to the Big 10, and we all did this, and that’s not doing anything for innovation. That’s not doing anything for diversity. Do you know? So I, I love talking about this. Go, you know, look at your recruiting processes, where are you going? What are you missing? What are your blind spots and break the mold? We’ve got another question. And I think this one’s actually pretty serious because this whole topic, and even around affinity bias, or even around, let’s say that I’m going to address it in a more general way, addressing inequality in any of the facets of your organization. I’m going to read the question. There are a lot of affinity bias promotions at my company. When employees bring this up, there’s actual and fear of retaliation. How do employees create their own safe space to address this inequity in workforce development and retention? Because it is hard when you may not have the power, and you have to go up to try and lead. How do you start to push some of those things through and create awareness? So then people understand that there’s a bias there, or that it’s not an equal playing field for everyone. The Importance of Allyship Dr. Tyrone Holmes: That’s a great question. And the first thing I’m going to say is that I’m never going to say to somebody do something that you think or put your job in jeopardy, or put your status in jeopardy even if you still have a job. I would never do that. We never do anything to get damaged somebody’s career. If you genuinely feel fear or great concern, that if you raise certain issues, it will be used against you. Then I’m not going to say, raise those issues in that way. What I’m going to say is that your other alternative is to find someone in leadership that can be an ally, and you have to identify an individual that isn’t going to have to worry about retaliation. And there’s not going to have to worry about someone doing something negative to them if they bring it up and try to try to have some conversations with that potential ally about your concerns and how they might be addressed. Because the reality is I’d like to say, and I do say, this is that to the extent possible. If you have a concern, you should, you should air that. You should be able to sit down and have a conversation with someone in leadership about the concern. And you should be able to articulate why not only is that going to be beneficial to you, but beneficial to the organization for them to address that concern. But I, I recognize that that’s not always an option for some people in some certain circumstances and that there are- there’s bad leadership. There are organizations that just flat out have bad leaders or ineffective leaders or leaders who are vengeful for lack of a better word in terms of how they engage people. And so you’ve gotta be really careful with making sure you keep your job, and you can continue to feed your family and feed yourself and do all those kinds of things. But in those cases, you’re only really other option is to find an ally in leadership and have that, have that conversation with them so that perhaps they can, without fear of retaliation, bring that up. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And allyship, you know, in alignment with the diversity, equity, inclusion, the social unrest that’s going on. Allyship is so important right now to find people that you can connect with that you can talk to that can support you. And that can be there too. Maybe they don’t necessarily directly experience it, but they can be your advocate. They can be someone that, you know, leads the way for you. So absolutely creating that allyship. We’ve got another question. This is probably a big one. So maybe I’m not sure if we’ll end on this one, but we’ll see. If your organization includes law enforcement or similar entities that may be under more pressure and scrutiny at this time. For obvious reasons, with George, George Floyd, and everything for at this time, sorry- how do you increase their buy-in while taking into consideration why they may or may not be comfortable with transparency, change or self-reflection, and while also trying to understand their own office culture? Inclusive Leaders are Genuine Dr. Tyrone Holmes: That’s a great question. And we haven’t talked about this and that this would be something good to close on as a conversation around. A single word—and that is genuineness. You have to be genuine. And genuine means being your real self. It’s being straightforward and being who you are. You have to be genuine, and you have to be honest. And I think the key to success in any of these types of endeavors is to be and to be straightforward about what it is that you’re trying to accomplish. There are entities, and the police would certainly be a good example of this who would be very, very skeptical of any kind of conversation about topics like this, because, and again, I think it’s understandable because they’re under fire. And they would see it as another opportunity for someone to put them under further fire. And if that’s your goal, okay, then you’re not going to get anywhere anyway. But if your goal is genuinely to facilitate change in a way that is going to be beneficial for all, you have to be genuine, upfront and honest about that and about what you’re trying to accomplish. Now, that doesn’t mean it’s going to work. It doesn’t mean people are gonna necessarily believe you or buy into you. What is it you have to say? But I think that is a big key in all of this is to be genuine, to be straightforward. And to have a discussion about what you mean. I’m going to give you a really quick example. I was doing a pretty significant diversity intervention last year for a client of mine in Idaho. And we were having; we were in a full-day session. We will be doing a number of things in terms of their data collection and doing some discussion around unconscious bias and things of that nature. Someone posed the question. It was a very simple question about, cause we were talking about one of the things we want to focus on is diversity recruitment because they were really, really, mono-cultural organization. And so we talked about the diversity of recruitment and what that looks like and things of that nature. And somebody asked them a very honest and a very good question, and basically said, my concern is that we’re going to go from what I think is an organization that really was about hiring the best person, to a pulley system. And so what I did at that moment was I thanked him for the question as that was a very good concern and very great valid question. And what I did is I gave them an example of the approach that I take and what I do, and I said, you know what? There are people who will, who will do that one, turn this into nothing more than a foolish system. But I gave them an example of a presentation that I was doing probably 10 years earlier for a major university. When someone actually said that they, there was an open position. Someone said we should just hire somebody who was a person of color or female and leave it at that. Not even consider hiring a white male at the time. I said that I have a problem with that. I find fault with that. The reason I find fault with that is that what you’re doing then is one you’re not genuinely trying to hire the best person. You’re just trying to hire a person that’s going to fit certain characteristics. And two, all you’re doing is instead of actually as an organization, becoming an organization that recruits and hires a high quality, multi-diverse workforce, you’re going to become an organization that for certain positions hires that underrepresented group member and then goes back to doing what you normally do for all the other jobs. Is it an effective way of doing this? And I don’t think that philosophically or practically it works very well. And I gave them that example. So I said all that state, the following, I was genuine about who I am and what I’m trying to accomplish. And it resonated very well. They bought into it very well and they, they recognize that, okay, this is what, this is an individual that’s genuinely trying to help us improve as an organization and as genuinely trying to help us utilize some different resources and techniques to get a high-quality culturally diverse workforce, it worked very, very well. And I said, again, is my long-winded way of saying this. I wanted to point that out. Because I think the key in all of this is to be genuine, to be honest about your motives, to be honest about what you’re trying to accomplish, and to be forthright about how it’s going to affect your organization and what you’re trying to. And I think that that doesn’t mean you’re always going to be successful because there’s going to, they might be, they don’t want to do it. And that’s okay. I’ve, I’ve run into that as well, but you want to be successful well, more often than not. If you’re genuine if you’re honest and you’re straightforward with who you are, what you’re really trying to do. Because there’s going to be skeptics is going to be people who are people of goodwill who want to do something, but they’re skeptical, skeptical because they’ve had bad experiences. And so you want to make sure that they know who you are, what you’re about and what you’re really trying to accomplish, and that you have really good intentions. I’m trying to make it something successful for everyone. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, Tyrone, you killed it in this conversation. You can see in the chats; you’ve just given people so much. And I know we’re a little bit over, so thank you for being with us. You have given people so many different insights to be able to walk away today. You know, obviously, I love the closing piece of genuineness, understanding our intent and being transparent about that, but also remember it’s all about building on our commonalities and creating that bridge, taking baby steps, focusing on our recruiting process or other places where we may have a bias that we can try to mitigate or manage. Also, thinking about how we can create those opportunities for people to connect, whether that’s employee resource groups or mentoring. I can’t even go through everything that you shared, but for those, Tyrone’s contact information is on the screen. Tyrone also does workshops. He’s a keynote speaker. He’s an author. He gave you his personal email address. So if you do have questions that are not answered, please feel free to connect with Tyrone. You see it at drholmes@sbcglobal.net. He is someone that we as Crestcom have loved working with. So, and just as a reminder, if you want to connect with Crestcom, you can sign up and contact us for a free Leadership Skills Workshop just to check them into your organization. Maybe we can uncover some of these topics, and last please, don’t forget to subscribe to Crestcom’s podcasts, the leadership habit. We’ve actually done an episode with Tyrone, and hey, maybe we’ll do some more. This one’s going to actually be recorded and put onto our podcast. So if you want that refresh, know that it’s going to be there shortly. Thank you so much for everyone for joining us today. We’re so excited to go ahead and do this again in a few hours, Tyrone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, insight, all of these and best practices. We are so grateful to have you. Dr. Tyrone Holmes: My pleasure. Thank you all! Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Tyrone Holmes today, all about inclusive leadership and what we can do. It was a great conversation. I hope that it stimulated new thoughts or new ways that you can connect with others around you. If you want to connect with Tyrone and book him, have come into your organization, you can go to drtyroneholmes.com or you can find the link in our show notes. If you liked today’s episode, please share it with your friends. Tag us on social media, and don’t forget to write us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. Thank you so much for listening until next time. Bye.   The post Episode 36: Embracing Inclusive Leadership: Bringing Everyone to the Table with Dr. Tyrone Holmes appeared first on Crestcom International.

What will it take to create a truly inclusive workplace today? How can leaders step up now to understand and improve the current and future state of work. In this episode, our host, Jenn DeWall, continues to explore the issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion in a conversation with Alicia Jessip, Inclusion and Diversity Manager at TEKsystems. Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, Jenn DeWall here. And on this week’s episode of the leadership habit, I interviewed diversity and inclusion thought leader. Alicia Jessip. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Alicia. Growing up in a small town in Iowa as a biracial first-generation Afro- Latino American.  Alicia has always had a strong passion for inclusion and diversity. As the first family member to attend university, Alicia learned early on that her path was not only to build a more inclusive community but to be a light and bridge for other underrepresented people to realize their personal and professional potential. Having served in the education, startup, marketing, and now technical sector with tech systems, the nation’s leading IT services and staffing firms. She understands the nucleus to how every company thrives- by emphasizing their people with multifaceted experience and moxie. Alicia is here to help companies take a look at their current workforce, realize their challenge opportunities, and create plans that impact teams individually and organizationally. Alicia has her degree from the University of Northern Iowa and is the founder of the largest women in tech meetup organization based in Denver. Please join us in our conversation as we talk about diversity equity and inclusion in the workforce and how you can create a more inclusive space. We are going to have a big conversation today talking about the subject of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Yeah. It might be something that you’ve probably seen a lot of lately as a result of the civil unrest and what happened with Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many others. But we are talking about what it means in the workplace. How can we make sure that we’re creating a place for all of your employees, for you as leaders to create a place where they feel safe, they feel supported. We can all work together by respecting our differences, understanding our differences, and connecting? But before I go so far into this, Alicia, for those that don’t know you, could you please just go ahead and introduce yourself? What is an Inclusion and Diversity Manager? Alicia Jessip: Yes, I’m Alicia, I’m based out of Denver, Colorado, and currently, I’m an Inclusion and Diversity Manager for a tech company. What does that mean to be a diversity and inclusion manager?  To be someone that’s working in that space? Because that’s really new for some people. What does that mean? Yeah. You know, it’s funny because, well, it’s not funny. However, I would say up until a lot of what we’ve been experiencing and quarantine, and I would say just a percentage of my job is explaining the functions of an inclusion diversity practitioner and how that shows up in the workplace. And now I think we’ve hit a point where people are like, okay, cool. How can you help? How can you help like that aside? But just this aside, how can you jump in here and help? And so when I think about what I’m doing and what I’m trying to achieve, really the heart and center of it all is to create more equity and systems that have not been built with equity in mind. And that is a thought process and a philosophy. And my leadership style that I’ve taken from Dr. Nita Mosby Tyler, who’s based here out of Denver as well, who founded the equity project. She’s, she’s just such a thought leader for me. And the first time I’ve ever heard her say that. That’s been cemented in my brain. So it is helping lead and create equity and systems that have never been built with equity in mind. But then we talk about it from the inclusion-diversity angle, too. And really with, with the people that we’re bringing into our systems and allowing and creating space for them to feel like they belong and also create the space in which the variety that is diversity can thrive. How do you Define Diversity, Equity and Inclusion? Jenn DeWall: How do you define diversity, equity and inclusion? Because for some people they might understand, maybe one of those words, they might understand diversity, but not necessarily equity, or they might understand inclusion, but not necessarily something else. So if we’re looking at the three and why all three of those words how powerful they are or, excuse me, they are powerful and why they all matter. That’s all a part of creating that great place. How do you define that in an organization or maybe set in a different way? What does it look like? Alicia Jessip: You know, that I think is just a crucial question to really understand, and it shows up differently with some of the clients that I’m supporting are just conversations that I have more as a consultant. And so I like to break it out. And just a couple of ways, I think there’s, of course, the textbook definition, like let’s make sure understanding that we understand just foundationally what these terms mean, but then also more of the working and maybe philosophical definition too. But I think for anybody that’s listening, a really great exercise could be for you. And your org is to sit down and define it first for yourself. Hey, as an individual, what does diversity, equity, and inclusion mean to me? And then for my team, what do I think diversity, equity, and inclusion, mean. And then taking it a step further, the third response for your organization and doing some comparing and contrasting analysis to say, Hey, where are some gaps with how we’re defining this? And where are some opportunities to which we can start to really build or enhance a strategy that we might already have? So to revisit it, let’s start with the textbook because I think that, again, it’s just so important to make sure that we’re all under a similar foundation. So, diversity, by definition, is variety, right? Having different elements. And then inclusivity is more of a state of quality, a policy to really not exclude or leave out. And then equity is being fair or impartial. So then we take it over into looking at it from a working definition and maybe more thematic or philosophical, just depending on, you know, where you’re at in the journey. And an inclusive workplace, or inclusivity, then it’s starting to feel around that sense of belonging. And belonging of my whole self. And is that happening, or if it’s not. And from an organizational standpoint, I see inclusivity as understanding the value that your employees have when they start to feel included. In an Inclusive Workplace, We can Hear All the Voices And the society for human resources management has the definition that I really love. They have an article like six steps for building an inclusive workplace, and they use a choir analogy, and having my show choir background really stood out to me and inclusivity is, can we hear all the voices? Or are we appreciating all the voices in this choir? Are they contributing to the performance? And I think the best organizations that I’ve seen really grasp inclusivity are really understanding how each member of the choir is contributing to just the overall harmony of the entire performance. Diversity now, and more of a working themed sense is thinking about all the different characteristics that we have and could have. And having leadership and your D& I can come up with this. So, of course, you’ve got like your protective characteristics, right in corporate America, race, gender, sexual orientation. But moreover, there’s an element to the diversity that I would say below the waterline, right? So when we’re talking about the glacier, you can see above the waterline. And oftentimes that’s even just smaller than the vast amount of diversity that lies underneath. And I think that’s the second level of diversity- that organizations that ahead have really started to grab onto. And that’s the experience that individuals bring, that’s the talents that they bring, this skill, their opinion, their education, their backgrounds socially economically things that might not always just be visible to the eye as well, that really can enhance an organization and allow the variety to come together. And when it all starts to feel like you can belong, to really thrive. Equity is the piece I still think needs the most intentional conversation and understanding across organizations. I think still to this day, individuals and organizations are mixing equity with equality. And I will share that I actually have conversations with a lot of peers and in the tech realm that believe in equality first, even after understanding the definition. And I think for those that are listening, I would encourage you all to after this revisit both terms for yourself and just see where you’re landing within, within the radar of the two, because you might be surprised in what you might uncover. What is the Difference Between Equity and Equality Jenn DeWall: The difference between equity and equality and in this instance, like what distinction, are we may be looking for, or where have we been missing the mark? Alicia Jessip: So there’s another platform that I follow HR technologists, and their definition of equity is a state where everyone, regardless of their ethnic background, country of origin, age, physical ability, disability, or gender, has a level playing field. So equality, though, is the sameness. And that’s just equal for everybody. But the fact of the matter is, Jenn, is that institutions today are marginalizing and there is disenfranchisement- disenfranchising of individuals and inequity. So to say, Hey, we just want you to call on you for all is not a fair statement because it’s still going to hinder those that have historically been underrepresented. And there is an artist, let me make sure I get their name right. Angus Maguire, I think, is their name. We’ll have to double-check that, but they have a really popular illustration of helping define and create the difference between equity and equality that you might be familiar with. And it’s three individuals that are looking over a fence, and they are different heights. These three individuals that are trying to look over the fence. And so there are a few different stepping boxes that these individuals are standing on to be able to see over the fence, the person that’s, the tallest has access to these boxes, and it’s standing on the box, even though without the box, they can still see over the fence. And there’s a person who is the middle height and then somebody who has the shortest and the person who’s, the shortest only has access to one box, and they still can’t see over the fence. So the theory is if we were to apply that with equality versus equity if things were equal, they’d still all be on the same box. And two of them still would not be able to look over the fence. So we need to be equitable and recognize that, Hey, before we get to equality, we need to help people catch up that historically been underserved and provide them with boxes so that they can then see over the fence as well. Jenn DeWall: Yes, absolutely. Like I love even just the phrase catch up. So this requires people to recognize, you know, one of the basic things with diversity, equity, and inclusion and our, as a leader, is to recognize that there were systems in place that may not have provided equitable options for people. And I know right now there might be some people that are really just trying to think that through and that’s okay. But we know there’s evidence. We can even just look at pay as a basic example— to know that pay, especially women or people of color and the discrepancy between what someone makes like a, what a white man would make versus a person of color. And knowing that there is an example of just an inequity that has no true, I guess maybe this is the wrong way of saying that, but validation and to why that is, right? Because it’s not about skill, then it’s not about, you know, tenure it’s, it comes back down to something that should never even be a basis of judgment, which is the, you know, a person of color like, or having a different type of background. Like, none of that makes sense. And so knowing that we need to catch up on the things that were put into place, what I would argue for no reason like there’s no rhyme or reason to ever discriminate or not pay someone what they deserve to be paid if they’re at an equal playing field with someone else. But we need to understand first and admit that that actually happens. And as a white woman, I absolutely understand my privilege. And you know, we were talking about this before, and I’ll just share it for those that don’t know me. Because Alicia and I are going to go deep in this podcast conversation because it is a really important conversation to have. But from my perspective of diversity, equity and inclusion, I have a family where my aunt and uncle all, they adopted four children. I have four black cousins that I love so much. Jenn DeWall: And the unique thing is that we grew up, we were the same age. So, my cousin is my exact age. He’s 37, and I’m 37. And so growing up with him, watching how in my small town people would treat them differently just because of the color of their skin. I never understood it growing up. Like it just never made sense to me. Like why are people saying that? And even into our adult lives, like my cousin and I are very close, hearing his experiences in the workplace. He has been called. And if for affirmative action hire, he has been reprimanded for being “too brotherly.” And these are things that we, you know, we may not like to hear, we might say, or maybe you didn’t experience that, or you don’t know someone, but just because you haven’t experienced it, that doesn’t mean that we can’t start to open our eyes to understand that it’s happening. And that’s why we’re having this conversation. And gosh, there are so many different ways, but that’s where equity has to exist. You may not have had that shared experience. You may not have been familiar with anyone, but I encourage everyone to really think like, could there possibly be truth to what you may not be adding truth to? And I, of course, know that there is because I’ve watched it impact, my family, but I want other people to start to see this. Isn’t a way that we’re trying To bring someone else down. This is understanding that these inequities have been there, and it’s time to address them. Like we need to make sure everyone has that same. Sorry I went on a tangent there. You are the expert. I am not. Alicia Jessip: Stop. No, no, no, no. I am not the expert. I am simply here to just bridge this communication and these conversations with the hope that if I can also provide some tools and some resources and some parameters, that we all mobilize and change. Because of the fact of the matter, this fight for equity under the lens of racial injustice and really the power play that is our society is in everybody’s role and responsibility. I really, really believe that. And I think, you know, for those that, I think, first of all, if you’re listening to this willingly, the chances of you are not being a believer in the stake in this, and the responsibility of that is probably low. But you might be connected with those that are still struggling with this, or still on the side of the fence. That’s like not, I do not see this in my organization, or that’s not true, or we’re fabricating it. It’s how do I, how do I want to say this? I think. Well, we’ll skip that. We’ll skip that. I’ll come back to my thought on that. Stop the Silence- Speak Up for an Inclusive Workplace Jenn DeWall: I mean, I think part of it is, you know, the other opportunity for leaders right now is to, and it’s what you wrote about in one of your articles talking about that. Now, like if we think about the starting point, like now is the time where we have to stop being silent. So if you are a leader listening to this and you may agree with everything that we’ve talked about so far, maybe you’ve had that, but maybe you haven’t said anything. Now it’s your responsibility as a leader to make, if you’re creating that, that plays for people to feel safe, productive valued, respected for their differences, valued for their differences, that now is no longer the time that we can be silent about it, that there might be some people that have witnessed it. I know I have seen it and not always, absolutely been comfortable being able to address it in that situation. And I hate saying that because I have family that I know is marginalized by this. So I, I don’t want you to judge yourself for not being perfect and how you approach this, but now is the time. Like you talked about it. I want you to hit that point, but now is the time where we have to stop being silent. Alicia Jessip: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, that’s partially where I want to go at that. Right? And then I, I struggled partially because it evokes just a lot of emotion. And I think for me, it’s partially I’m frustrated. Like how, how can we not see that this is in everybody’s role responsibility? But moreover, it really is the major demographic. Like if we can agree that a lot of the conversation you’ll have around diversity inclusion and equity is stemmed back from the racial that we received, then we need to really look ourselves in the mirror and look at each other and be like, well, where does the power and the oppression really starts to come from? And that is the majority demographic that is white people. And I think to really, really get good with that. It’s not a, I’m angry at you, Jenn. Like how dare you. It is like, Hey, what can you help do? What can you help contribute to the big fight and the big movement that we’re all really in right now? And I think though it breaks my heart, that a lot of this energy is stemming off the assassinations of beautiful black people that it’s creating some awareness. Now that we’ve been in the confines of quarantine, that I don’t want to stop. Especially looking at the work that we have to do in corporate America because that is where some of the ugliest witnesses to systemic inequity lie. And we’re arguably some of the most work needs to be done just considering how much our corporations shift and drive our working world, our social world, that then impacts our personal world as well. And now that we’re starting to feel integrated, I’m even more motivated to really come in and say, Hey, if it’s at the expense of, you and I have a conversation where I lose my thoughts a little bit. Cause I had like still have to push back tears, and it’s okay. And I’m here for that. What are the Benefits of an Equitable and Inclusive Workplace? Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. So why, you know, we talked about this from a very personal perspective, but if you guys need to hear the numbers and understand how racial inequity not bringing everyone to the table has actually cost your business. Let’s talk about the case, the building, the case of why you want to make diversity, equity and inclusion, a part of your organization’s strategy. What are the benefits that teams, leaders or organizations have when they create a place where everyone can thrive? What are those benefits? Alicia Jessip: Hmm. You know, it’s, you can look at it a couple of different ways, and I would encourage people to. You can look at it internally with just your employee base, right? And creating an environment where people can show up feeling like they can belong.  And feeling like they can be the best version of themselves, the authentic version of themselves. However, you want to highlight it. Creating a space where people can show up and thrive because the more energy that they’re spending hiding parts of their identity or covering up parts of their identity, the more energy is being spent that could be going elsewhere and probably could help highlight and impact the business. So that’s just at the individual level, right? And then you look at it collectively and how, when we don’t create spaces of belonging and that sense of belonging, what starts to happen? Well, we start to see levels of attrition and knowing how competitive the workforce already is, especially in the sector in sectors like technology. It really is not a strong business angle to not focus on levels of inclusion, because at the rate you’re going to lose people. Not only is it going to be costly from a, from a replacing standpoint but just an overall intellectual property standpoint that you then are also losing as they head out to another company. And then you mobilize a group of people that also start to feel a certain type of way about your institutions and how they might not be creating spaces of belonging. Then now we’re starting to look at some brand problems there too, and how your company is really getting marketed out to the world. So that’s how I could just sum it up from an internal standpoint. Then I want to look at it externally at the very least, if you can’t justify or really understand why the case for diversity would be important internally, then look at it externally, who are your demographics that are purchasing or connected to your business and how are you reflecting their makeup? Because that’s where we really start to leverage, buy it, and leverage it for a way that actually benefits us. If we can match more of the demographic internally from our client base externally, there’s going to be some similarities, some likeliness, some, some likeness that’s going to be embedded. That’s going to set your business up for more success. So anytime I’m having a conversation with somebody in the tech sector, a colleague at maybe a client at the leadership level, that’s still like, eh, I’m not all the way bought in, but I know my boss is really harping on this, but I’m going to focus on D, E and I. What can you all do? I really challenged them to think about their customer base, and the reflection of their customer base and where they’re at within that spectrum to help highlight that, Hey, at the very least, look at it from the business standpoint, in that manner. And the other thing that I would add to that really, aside from people just doing their own searches to really get some great understanding. I know McKinsey and company probably has some of the best-curated content out there for making the case to why DNI better serves your businesses and all levels, small, medium, large, internationally here locally within the United States. How do we create a Sustainable Inclusive Workplace? Jenn DeWall: You know, we’re having the, obviously this big, big talk, and right now we’re in the middle of, you can call it a movement, and there’s a lot of organizations that maybe are jumping on, and they really want to create more, a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplace. But how do we make sure that it’s not just a moment in time? That this is actually something that is sustainable, that it starts from here until the end of time? It’s not something that they’re just doing in the back half of 2020, because we see it on the news. How do we make that sustainable in an organization? Alicia Jessip: That is, I could piece that apart so much and help direct. And I think the short answer it is going to really, really be varied from organization to organization. So I think that’s really important to know. I think if I could offer some holistic pieces of advice in regards to how we can make sure it’s going to be sustainable. I think the first thing that we need to come to terms with, and this is something that I wake up every morning, really noting for myself, but that still fuels me to keep on this mission is that I don’t know. Well, first, if we can agree that the heart of this work is really to create equity, I don’t know, Jenn, if truly that we are going to achieve that in our lifetime. I just, I think this will be a fight that will go on after my last breath in this world. And there is power within that because that to me is leaving and creating a long-lasting legacy.   And so when I think about, okay, how can I help? Or what can I, what can I share to really incite organizations to make this sustainable? It’s not the passion where I see people falter, because if anything, right now, one could say, this is the most passionate, come-to awakening. We’ve really seen our society have a lot in terms of some of the racial, unsettling injustice that we’ve witnessed, and through different mediums, social media become way more accessible than maybe what we’ve had historically in the access to one another that I think has definitely heightened that. So it’s not the emotional aspect, it’s the logical piece of it. And the logic to drive programs that will then be sustainable. So I think for people that are listening that have that passion and desire, which is probably why they’re showing up to listen to this podcast, I encourage them to start to put some parameters that are programmatic, that will then help you be sustainable and really plant some roots in now and the way in which you do, that might be a little different. Change Management is Key to Creating an Inclusive Workplace Alicia Jessip: But I think the basics really understand that this work is organizational change management. And it was my current director, Franklin Reed, that helped me really understand that is that when we talk about organizational change management, we’re also talking behavioral change management and that is connecting to hearts, but also connecting to minds. And I think back to the business case for why diversity and inclusion are important is because we know that it can help enhance your business. So let’s take a logical approach to enhancing that business, maybe looking at some key performance indicators, categorizing and identifying, reviewing, resolving risks that you might come up with, defining your timelines, strategizing and looking at improvements along the way we set, Hey, can we get this through our lifetime? Like how do we create sustainability through a lifetime? That’s gonna take a lot of iterations and a lot of revisits and probably some tweaks along the way. Alicia Jessip: And that is okay because it shows that that nimbleness that we need in this, the second piece, this is around the organizational change management. I think taking an approach like that to seed in a really strong program will that help it make it be sustainable? And that’s really understanding the current state of your organization, probably through some data, Hey, maybe you can work with your talent acquisition teams, your internal recruiters, you know, succession, what it looks like from hiring pay, attrition, demographics, ethnicity reports, et cetera, looking at the current state and then coming together to collaborate with the correct stakeholders and people needed to say, what’s our future state. We’re where are we trying to go within this? And remember taking it back to what I said at the beginning. Once you foundationally understand what diversity means for your collective, what inclusion means for your collective and then what equity means for your collective and then the transitions from there, or, you know, again, back to the communication. And sometimes I giggle because I’m like, this sounds silly, but I’m like, no, like it’s really groups out here that struggle communicating with each other, The leadership engagement, the organizational alignment, the readiness for it, the vision and the value, and then realizing what training and support will coincide with that, to keep that sustainable program nimble and thriving. Jenn DeWall: I love that. How you, you know, how you describe it in terms of this is a behavioral change management strategy, and it changed management. And I think people sometimes forget that to, you know, change the behavior. It’s going to take a lot of reinforcement. It’s going to take a lot of communication. It’s going to require us to look at our areas of opportunity or what needs to be let go of, but we also need to understand that it is also emotional to people to hold on to things. They become afraid. There might be people that have been marginalized that are afraid to speak up. There might be, you know, there’s a lot of reasons, but we do need to recognize this as a change strategy, we are changing the essential attitude or culture, if you will, of your organization for how you’re going to embrace and look at diversity as just this great gift that’s going to strengthen in so many different ways, the offerings, the ability for you to drive results. I mean, so many benefits of that. Where do Leaders Begin to Build an Inclusive Workplace? Jenn DeWall: You talked about the conversational piece because that is one of the more challenging pieces that there’s a level of discomfort that I think comes from all sides of it. Like, how do I talk about this? How do I share my experiences about being marginalized, where people will take me seriously and not just say, well, I haven’t seen that. So that couldn’t happen. Or how do I show someone that I am there to support and be an ally and advocate? And that I, as a leader, I’m not going to tolerate any of, all of that or any level of discrimination. How do we start to be bold and have those conversations that we might be a little nervous because we’ve not had them before? How do we start to have those? Or what can leaders do to even begin? Alicia Jessip: You know, I think back to the article that I had put out there around silence- titled Your Silence is Betrayal. And especially at the leadership level now is more urgent. It’s never been more urgent for you to show up and hold that space for your teams to engage in this dialogue because both the times are unfortunate. If I can be a person on the side of optimism for a second, I can only think about beautiful experiences that have derived from space being held in which I can get to know my colleagues and my peers on a deeper level. And that, to me, is really the essence of work-life integration. I think historically our organizations and our working organizations were set up in a way that said, Hey, Jenn, you know, we’re not going to talk about politics here. We’re not going to talk about religion. We’re not going to talk about certain things. And for a long time, we have been conditioned to deem that as inappropriate. But now what we’re witnessing again under such really, really bad times is that, Hey, Alicia, I know you just saw over the weekend, another unarmed black man being shot at the hands of police. But when you log in for your 8:00 AM standup meeting, can you compartmentalize that? Can you leave that there because we just, we don’t, that doesn’t really fit within our culture and our values? And you can’t do that. You can’t, that’s not fair. And I really don’t know how, from a humanity standpoint, we can ask that. So now it’s, Hey, maybe we’re not going to be able to identify the crux of all the racial and social inequity that has been embedded into the founding of the United States. But can we take a look at our organization and see where there are opportunities and gaps and which things are a little inequitable or non-equal in certain parts and determine how collectively we can focus on this to move our business forward. I don’t think that’s a hard ask at all. In fact, I think that is the necessary app to grow and advance your business. And that was what I was going to say earlier that I think people need to realize and be okay, not tiptoeing around diversity and inclusion yields, business results. We are a capitalistic world. Let’s just honor the capitalism that was in that. It’s not mainly just to make me feel good around, Oh, there’s more people that look like me in this organization. It’s Hey, more people like me that can contribute great information, and great value added is going to move this business forward. It is okay to say that D and I yields business results. Yes. Emotional Intelligence is Needed for an Inclusive Workplace Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Well, and just being like having the conversation and, you know, just being, you being willing to talk about it, I love that. Not making it taboo. Like I know that in the earlier part of my career where I’ve absolutely worked for an organization where you did not talk about politics, right? That was so taboo, but gone are the days. And I think the pandemic, you know, combined with everything that we see as a result of George Floyd and just all of the, like all of the issues with the black lives matter movement, you know, it’s now just finally an opportunity for us to, wow, finally have those conversations. Wow. Finally, like reflect and say like, what has been happening that I’ve been allowing to happen? Wow, what’s my role in this to be able to help make it a great place for people to live and work. And of course, yes, we know that the business is going to have results because then you’re not forcing people to compartmentalize. And that’s where I was going with this, you know, gone are the days that we can just pretend that people don’t have emotions or that things that happen outside of the workplace, don’t walk in the door with your employee. They absolutely do. And what your employee needs from you as a leader is knowing that you are a safe space. That even the stuff that’s happening outside, that you are not going to be discriminated against. You are not going to have to bear the burden of that in your place, because you’re in an organization that sees you, that values you, that wants you there. And it’s okay to be emotional about it. How could you not? How could you not be emotional or have a variety of different attitudes where it, and I think this is just a great time for leaders to really step up and recognize that emotions are a real part of work. We spent a third of our lives at work, and we’re going to have emotions that come into work, and we need to make sure that we’re listening to that and that, Hey, if there is something that’s going on, like not being afraid to have the conversation, like checking in with someone, especially during, you know, right after George Floyd. Jenn DeWall: And even obviously still today, like, are you checking in with your people of color and doing it in a sensitive way where you’re not like, well, you must have something to say about this. Like, you can’t make that assumption either, but saying like, Hey, how are you doing, given everything that’s happening outside? Are you feeling okay? Do you need a minute? I mean, if I tell you, I feel like it’s far more easy for someone to say like, Oh my, you know, outside of this, like I have a really sick grandmother and they’ll be like, Oh, you know, no big deal, like take time for you. But if I say, Hey, like outside of this, there is something that’s really making me feel unsafe. It’s making me feel marginalized. We don’t necessarily extend that same courtesy. And we have to start to do that. We have to start to say like, yeah, why do you need some time? Or do you need to talk about this? Like I get how that could emotionally impact you, Don’t Get Stuck in Guilt Alicia Jessip: Facts, facts, facts! Sing it, gal! And, you know, that’s also something that I really put in my article that fueled a lot of my passion and energy around that with comparing what we saw weeks after COVID and how that gap in leadership really shifted. I think in due to historically not being conditioned and probably leaders not having the feeling like they were equipped with the right tools and the resources because of the shock in which they might have felt. And I think that’s something that as a practitioner, I am signing up for this work to help curate, but I want to just remind people and encourage people that beyond, but a couple of tools that I could help frame and put together, it really is just coming down to compassion. At the center of this, the human connection and recognizing you know, who we’re talking to on the other side of the table, regardless of what they look like. And I want to touch on something too, that you just brought up with, you know, Hey, checking in on our underrepresented employees, definitely, but also another side to this is people who are in the majority group, white people that have since felt this overwhelming sense of guilt and their emotions, given everything that’s happening, what do I do? Where do I go? I feel so overwhelmed. I’m so emotional, I’m upset. And while I think guilt is absolutely such a valuable emotion to feel. It should be just one of the first emotions that are felt and not something you harbor in, because that then starts to get projected and actually starts to smother, probably your colleagues who are already underrepresented and really doesn’t enact change. I think guilt can be an incredible feeling to help mobilize change. So for anyone that’s listening, that’s been in that space for a minute because you’re not quite sure where to go. Maybe your organization hasn’t provided clear direction that we were saying earlier, like, Hey, we can’t clearly take on everything as it relates to systemic inequity, but we can definitely funnel it into what’s appropriate for our organization to make change. And if that hasn’t happened yet, I can understand maybe some of the feelings of that continued guilt, but I encourage you to maybe take on that leadership for yourself and figure out avenues to which you can have conversations that will then drive change. We can’t have everybody sitting up in guilt right now. Don’t Just Talk About it – Be About it Jenn DeWall: You know, I have to say that because I do feel guilt. Sometimes I have absolutely like I would say probably 85, 90% of the time I will address any type of like anything that I hear where I’m like, that’s not okay, but there are still instances where I went silent, and those make me feel bad. Not only for my for my family members that are people of color, because I feel like I let them down, but I can’t live there. I have to own it. I have to recognize that, and you know what? There are still some times where I didn’t show up in the way that as a leader, I should have shown up, and I have to own it. I’ve talked about it. It’s even uncomfortable for me. Cause if I know my family hears this, like I don’t want them to know that I’m not, you know, always addressing that 100% of the time, but I also can’t live there because then I’m not going to be able to make change. And I also can’t live there because then I can’t show people that we’re not expecting you to be perfect 100% of the time and how you address this, but you’ve got to keep working for that future state. Like you’ve got to think about what you need to create, how you can do better, how you can make it. And it’s not just talking about it. It’s actually about it. Right? You have to own that stuff. Can’t let it control you, but you have own what your areas of opportunity are, where maybe your missteps were. It might feel uncomfortable, but if you don’t change it, then you’re only going to prolong the problem. And it just starts with the owner owning it. And I hope that by me even being vulnerable with saying that, yeah, I am not 100% perfect and how I approach this in any way. But I do know the case. I understand the why, and I’m going to keep doing better, and I’m going to keep working harder. That’s the attitude that you’ve got to have with this. You can’t live in your shame. You know, it’s just not going to be a productive thing for anyone, for your workforce, for your team members if you live in what you could have done differently when you have all of these choices in front of you right now to make different choices. You Don’t Have to Be Perfect Alicia Jessip: Absolutely! No, and I love you sharing, you know, some of like, Hey, this feels vulnerable for me because here’s the thing that it does for me too. Right? I’ve, I’ve been getting a little tongue-tied earlier because it’s the emotions that I feel the, all the things I want to say. It’s just a short amount of time that the advice I want to give the tool that I want to provide the suggestions I have, and I don’t have the answers 100% of the time. In fact, I don’t even know if I have half the percent of the answers that are needed in this bigger problem of creating systemic equity. I mean, goodness, people like that’s a big haul for anyone to say, Hey, I’m a subject matter expert in this field. Like, absolutely not because here’s the other thing and quoting my fave, Dr. Nita Mosby Tyler, again saying the first time I’ve ever heard this was from her, but there is no current guidebook to reach Nirvana for equity right now in the United States, we are creating that as we speak, it is bumbling on my end through podcasts like this. It is engaging in really, really courageous conversations to break down. Those spends to just get rid of the freaking fence. If we really want to talk about equity and engage with another and say, yeah, I want to hear about that story about your four cousins that is beautiful. That starts to build a connection. I want to tell you a little bit about my background because that is beautiful and that starts to build a connection. And that’s how we’re going to get through this. That is absolutely the hill that I’m willing to die on. When people ask me like, well, where do you see the future state of all of this? I see my role no longer even needing to exist, like truly trying to work myself out of a job, but I see just that beautiful connection between humanity starting to foster and happen. Now, will there always be cases of, of power in our being, probably because I think that’s just how humans are. I mean, we could probably invite somebody more biological focus on the next stop to help the answer. Some of that in regards to just our human evolution. But nonetheless, that’s where I really see the future state is us being open to engaging and just understanding each other at such a deeper level where then we feel empowered and encouraged to come up as individuals and the environment is already set up for us to belong. Jenn DeWall: My gosh, I love this conversation so much because it needs to happen. And it’s, you know, it can feel, there are no perfect answers. I love that distinction that you made that there’s not a perfect handbook that’s going to tell you how to guide this, but there is the initial mindset, like the belief that you know, we can make a change and we can make this look differently, and we can create a place that everyone, no matter what their background is, their gender, their race, their disability, where they feel included. You know, we, we went through this, but I really do want to share your tips that you shared because people are really thinking like, how do I start? Well, obviously, mindset. And you touched on one of the first ones from your article, which is hold space. But you also talked about, don’t be afraid to trip up on your words. And I think that this piece is really important because that’s going to be the barrier. That’s going to keep people from not having the conversation because they don’t know the perfect thing to say. What did you mean by that? Or how, like, how would you, if you were sitting down talking to our leaders, which is, you know, our audience for Crestcom, how would you tell them to, you know, not be afraid to trip up on your own words? Understand the Impact of Intent So a part of me was putting that together based on experiences that I have had as a woman of color in the tech sector, but also how I move through organizations as a leader. And that’s something I really, really value for myself and believe for myself, I can’t be out here afraid to trip up on my words. Now there is research that I for sure have to own, right? Whether it be on a client meeting and doing my due diligence to understand business challenges, forecasts, whatever that prepare me. But still when I show up, I’m not worried about the nuts and bolts of how perfect I might sound because, Hey, that’s not really who I am anyway, but be it it’s bigger than that because what’s the quote? People aren’t always going to remember what you said, but they’re going to remember how you, how you made them feel. And that’s the bigger piece that I just want to remind everybody, especially as we head into these waters that are going to be unfamiliar and are going to be ever-changing and probably at a very rapid pace. Sure. Do your due diligence and come up and make sure that you’re trying your best to understand the language that’s being used, especially as it relates to your organization. But it’s bigger than that. It is really understanding that the impact over the intent of your messaging and of your words. Jenn DeWall: I love that. Thinking about how are you making someone feel? Are they feeling safe? Are they feeling heard? Because at a human level, we all want to feel seen and heard. Do you provide that space for them to feel that way? That’s where you’re starting. It may not be perfect. It may feel a little clunky at first, but it’s still, are you intentionally working to create that connection with someone that space where they can feel safe? You would also touch, I guess, one of the important things to talk about is some leaders are like, Hey, what can I do? How can I bring this change into my organization? What are the potential blind spots or barriers that organizations or leaders could fall trap to that would maybe prevent them from getting that desired result that they have of creating that inclusive space? Creating an Inclusive Workplace Requires a Strong Foundation Alicia Jessip: Hmm. That’s a good question. I think I hate to throw out the word bias right now, because I think that in and of itself deserves its own talk because it’s become such a buzzword, but I think people hear bias and go, Oh no, like not this. And bias again is a part of who we are innately as humans, and it’s not wrong by definition, but it, when it starts to put on blind spots for us, that then, then start to hinder, especially groups that are already underrepresented that’s when it becomes problematic. So I think checking for biases that might be implicit, especially as leaders, is very, very important. But I think overall, when I think about the misses that I’ve witnessed from organizations, as they look on to enhance their D, E, and & I strategy or their journey is you have to start with a strong foundation. And again, that foundation is going to vary, but you need some strong table legs here. And that’s usually because what happens is let’s say they don’t have the funds to, you know, hire for somebody to do this full time. And if you do, I hope you are because that’s important, but they have somebody may be that once a week, that’s due to the past and we’re collective or an ERG accounts or what have you. And then something happens with one of those people, and they leave, or they switched roles where they grow up in the company. And then there’s not a lot of sustainable foundations left, but I always think that this is like building a house and you have to have a strong foundation and strong support the upkeep, the continued maintenance, again, back to the OCM, organizational change management approach or whatever KPI KPIs you want to implement within that, to be able to continue to check back and say, all right, it’s time to check up on this, or it’s time to go in and fix that. And then building in a way that’s going to be accessible for all. And accessibility will be up to you and your organization to really understand, and maybe forecast a little bit too, for individuals that might come into your organization that you’re not currently planning for, but still creating that level of accessibility. And then I don’t know when it comes to building that perfect home, and you want it to be welcoming. You want people to feel like it’s the home and that they can come in and take their shoes off and relax. So how you decorate, how you align things is going to be key critical, too, for how you build a sustainable program. And that’s the really beautiful thing about diversity, right? Going back to that variety, your home is going to look different from my home. And that is okay. In fact, that’s encouraged. It’s beautiful. It’s far in that sense, but let’s set it up that we are welcoming new people and inviting people into our space. Jenn DeWall: Yes, I, you know, I love again, I’m going to, I’m going to bring it back to how you had called out the current state versus the future state and a behavioral change initiative. Because you talk about maintenance. You know, we have those great genes ideas, whether it’s around the realm of D, E and I, or anything that we can have those. But if we, if we don’t stop and do those checkpoints and think, are we getting it right? Where’s our opportunity. What are we doing wrong? And then incorporating that data. We can’t possibly create that strong foundation or that house that we want. So, you know, remembering this is a change strategy. We’ve got to check in with it. It’s not just a one and done like throwing this out there, see how it goes, that it’s going to require you to think differently. Maybe you even make a misstep and how you do it, which I know that there probably are some organizations that are, have the right heart with this right now, but they’re probably, maybe are a little tone-deaf because they don’t recognize how they’re coming across. Hey, at least you’re working towards it, but also owning that, like, you know, what did we have everything? Did we check this by how someone would feel? Because I know there’s, you know, a lot of organizations even wanting to just facilitate these conversations so abruptly that they’re forgetting hat this is pretty private, it’s pretty vulnerable. Like you’ve gotta be mindful of that and tactful of how you go about it and check-in like, did you get it right? Did you come on too strong in a way that needs to be made people feel even more alienated? You know, check-in with yourself, it’s maintenance as a change management strategy. I’m not sure if anything. Yeah. Embrace an Abundant Mindset Alicia Jessip: I love, I love the play on this. And I think the privacy from the individual aspects. Sure. And I think maybe that’s where every actual great initiative needs to start is with self and some of the self uncovering and the Y determination there. And this was the other thought that I had earlier that that ghosted me. But it’s now starting to come together. I feel like we’re, we’re getting into it more and more and more. And I’m just so happy to be here right now. But it’s the individual mindset to check-in that’s abundance, abundance mindset. I think a lot of times when I talk with people or catch wind of people that are struggling to want to rally behind the initiatives regarding D, E and I, are struggling with that abundance mindset, their thought process as well. If they get some, what am I going to lose? Jenn DeWall: Or, you know, if we’re focusing on these promotions will me as a white man, am I not going to get considered for promotions anymore? What does this mean? And that’s not the right mindset. That is a feast or famine mindset. And that’s, what’s fueling a lot of the inequity in our systems today. And that is a hard mindset shift. I definitely do not have all the answers for that, but I think that, to me, is a critical step that we all have to take. Because it impacts all of us, the varying degrees, and under various circumstances, but this feast or famine, this lack of abundance mindset is what will continue to prevent us from moving forward as a society, we have to recognize that it is a community we are interconnected. We have to recognize that if I succeed, you can succeed. If you succeed, I can succeed. Jenn DeWall: If I help you, even if you think of the basis of leadership, leadership is also helping other people be the best that they can be. And sometimes that means delegating to them. Sometimes that means giving them different opportunities that yeah, you could do, or you would want to do. But together, we rise. Understanding that by helping someone else by ensuring that there is equity by doing that, it doesn’t mean that you’ve failed. It means that we all win. Alicia Jessip: I know there’s so many emotions. I wanted to cry because it is such a sensitive thing. Jenn DeWall: To me, it comes down to leadership and seeing people as people and understanding that the more that we can value and see each other’s differences and also like stand up for each other, like, Hey, if I wouldn’t want that done to me, like, why would I let it happen to someone else? Like I’m going to be an advocate. I’m going to be an ally. I am going to also stand up and have that abundant mindset because I know that if we all have the opportunity to be the best that we can be to be valued for who we are, we together can create greater things. We can solve more problems probably than what we create because so much of it comes from that division. Like there’s just so much upside from bringing everyone to the table to feel seen and heard. And you know, it’s just something it’s so powerful. And I hope that I know in the beginning, this conversation might have seemed a little bit more tense, but really what we’re trying to say is, or maybe I’ll speak for myself. Like we’ve got to create a place where all of us feel like we have a fair shot where all of us feel respected for being who we are and our authentic place. Jenn DeWall: And that is your role as a leader. Your role as a leader is to not sit and marginalized people to, you know. Even if we’re going to bias, like to not hold yourself accountable, to checking your biases, like, Hey, where are their flaws? And your decision-making process, your goal is to help everyone thrive. You were in the business of people management. If you were a leader and I don’t care if you have the title, you could just be someone that’s there as a colleague to someone, but you’ve got to advocate for the support and safety of your colleagues, of your team, of everyone that’s in your organization. That is your role as a leader. Everyone can be an Inclusive Leader Alicia Jessip: Absolutely. And I think to add to that too, and just maybe, maybe take it a step further if I may around the call to leadership and to anyone listening because titles aside, right. That is the individual attribute that we all can possess, and we all can grow into, and it takes coaching. It takes constant working on and, and conditioning. And I think the role of a leader is to not only create all that space and ensure that, you know, that that opportunity is there but go a step further and actually remove barriers. And dig up ways in which you might not even realize barriers exist. And I think that is what real leaders need to be doing, especially in our sectors where there are some of the biggest gaps. Absolutely. And then I think, you know, just to go back earlier to what you were asked was, you know, Hey, where do you see some organizations do this wrong? And maybe we even see organizations do this right. If we wanted to flip it, if they don’t make this work a one department problem, they don’t put this into one department to completely take on from inception to completion because that is not actually feasible yet. I think sure you might need a department or somebody like me, an instance that can come in as a practitioner and consult and take a look at the current system. Have that data to kind of back to that level of project management, OCM, whatever KPIs that are needed. Sure. For sure, it can help support that because that is a full-time role in and of itself. But when it comes to actually breed it into the DNA of your culture, that will be the responsibility of everybody. And that is also another area that I’ve become more increasingly passionate about because of just the burnout that we’re starting to see within the sector of diversity and inclusion, especially at the high level. So the higher up you have, as it relates to somebody in this diversity role, I encourage leaders to really ask how they’re engaging them at the seat of the table, as it relates to business problems. Because again, diverse teams and teams that feel included in organizations and that is equitable, drive better business results. So why wouldn’t you couple that at the conversation, when you’re talking about enhancing your business, Jenn DeWall: You know, I really liked that you made that distinction. This is not just, you know, falling under the umbrella of HR, and they’re the ones that are supposed to look at your entire organization and figure out this one size fits all. That’s going to just make it equitable. Maybe they’ll put some flyers with some values, like, no, you have to step in with your own attitude and checking it, asking how I can help? Because it has to be everyone effort. It can’t just be resigned to one department to try and figure out something that is much bigger than them and requires the behavioral change of probably every single person in your organization to see it in a different way to unite as one, Jenn DeWall: I have loved our conversation today. Is there anything else that you would want, you know, I know we covered a lot of different topics. Do you feel like there’s anything that we left out or, you know, and I know we’re going to share how people can connect with you just to kind of hear different perspectives, maybe have you assist them, but anything else you would want to leave our listeners with and the topic of diversity, equity and inclusion. Just Care—and Dare Alicia Jessip: for the days that we feel most polarized from each other- fight through that. Because at the end of the day we are in this together, we just absolutely are. It is going to take a village. It is going to take each and every one of us with some compassion and some love to work through this, and this dismantle, this yarn ball of systems that are interconnected and that are impacting us and reasons that sometimes I have yet to even really uncover and understand. So all that to say- is just care, and dare. Just drive forward.  Audre Lorde— I’ll share this quote from her and, you know, talking about the voice and not being afraid to trip up on words. If I am just out here, daring to have my voice heard. And when I dare to be powerful, to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important, whether I’m afraid or not. What is Your Leadership Habit for Success? Jenn DeWall: Wow, that is a pretty powerful way to wrap up this conversation. And it’s a call to action to all of our leaders that are listening. How can you dare to, you know, have your voice heard? How can you, was that dare to care that you had said initially like I love that, you know, give yourself permission to be brave, to take risks, to be bigger, to have an implement that vision of a place where we can all be seen, respected, valued, heard, loved all of the things. I’ve loved our conversation so much that the final closing question that we do ask every single person that sits on our podcast is what your leadership habit for success is? What do you do to maintain your own success? Or maybe that relates to what your current role is, or maybe that’s just something outside of that, but what is your leadership habit for success? Alicia Jessip: When I think about the work that I do, and we talked about this too, right? How daunting it can feel, and where do we start and how big this all is. I got really inspired since it came out, I saw it live in Chicago, but then since it’s been out, have you seen Hamilton yet? Jenn DeWall: No, I had tickets, but now. Focus on What you Can Control Alicia Jessip: Ooh COVID – sorry to bring that up. Yeah. Well, of, one of the major characters in that, the nemesis, if you will, of the musical, I won’t give too much away for those that haven’t seen. It is Aaron Burr. And he’s got a line in there that talks about you are the one thing in life you can control. And so when I think about my habit for leadership success – and I also got this from a dear mentor of mine. And one of my first directors here in Denver was control what you can control, Jenn DeWall: Yeah, focus on what you can control. That’s fantastic advice, and there’s power in that, right? Because then we can see the way that we can add value. Alicia, thank you so much for joining us on The Leadership Habit. I have loved our conversation. Thanks for going there. Thanks for also just showing that we can have these conversations, and we can do them in a way that is productive. We can do them in a way that gives people compassion and like, I just really appreciate you being on the show today. Alicia Jessip: Thank you for having me, girlfriend. It’s been a pleasure, and I really look forward to continuing this journey with you. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for tuning in to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I really hope that you enjoyed our conversation with Alicia. It was something that will always stick with me, and I know that I learned and gained a lot of additional insight and what I can do as a leader to be more inclusive. And I hope you did too. If you want to connect with Alicia, feel free to connect with her on LinkedIn. You can find her name in our show notes. If you want to see the spelling. In addition, if you liked today’s episode, don’t forget to share it with your friends, share it with other leaders that are actively working to create more diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplaces. And of course, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast, streaming service, and stay with us for this entire month as we cover the very important topic of diversity, equity and inclusion.   The post Episode 35: Creating an Inclusive Workplace with Inclusion and Diversity Manager, Alicia Jessip appeared first on Crestcom International.

Bias in the workplace affects us all. 70% of Executives now agree that diversity and inclusion is an important issue, and 67% of job seekers say a diverse workforce is important when considering a job offer.  Bias in the workplace can cause an increased turnover and reduce productivity. In fact, highly inclusive companies see 1.4 times more revenue than similar organizations. In this special minisode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, our host, Jenn DeWall, talks about becoming aware of bias in the workplace, and how leaders can work to create a more diverse and inclusive experience within their organizations. Full Transcript Below:  Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining and downloading and listening. Thank you so much for being here on today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. This is Jenn DeWall, and I’m going to be doing a minisode on the very important topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Which if you’ve been listening to us throughout this month, you’ve noticed that we’ve interviewed a few different thought leaders just to get their take on how we, as leaders, can create more inclusive spaces. So we can make sure that people feel included that they can succeed, they can be their best, and know we appreciate them for who they are. Diversity is Being Asked to the Party. Inclusion is Being Asked to Dance Now, for those that might be unfamiliar with this term, I’m going to, I’m going to share a quote, and this is how Verna Myers– she is an expert, a thought leader within the space of diversity, equity and inclusion. And she’s also the VP of inclusion strategy at Netflix and how she defines diversity and inclusion is like this. “Diversity is being invited to the party, and inclusion is being asked to dance.” So diversity says, all are welcome. We want you here. And inclusion says, while you’re here, we see you, please participate with us, engage with us. And then equity would be essentially making sure that we all have that same opportunity to do it. It’s so important because it’s related to our success as an organization, to our success as leaders, and to the success of every individual that walks through and does work for you. It’s important. Companies with cultures of inclusivity promote and give voice to a workforce of people of varying gender, age, religion, race, ethnicity, cultural background, and sexual orientation. Those are just to name a few things. That says that no matter how you show up, no matter what your differences are, we can still find that commonality. We can still find the bridge. Diversity & Inclusion is not Just a Fad And what’s important is that companies don’t just look at inclusion and diversity as checking a box, or maybe a fad. It needs to be seen as more than a fad. It can’t just be a slogan. You can’t just say, Hey, this is the place to work because people A, won’t want to work for you and B, we need to make a change. And by the way, if you want to know why it’s important- companies with a more diverse workplace outperform their less diverse competitors. We know that diversity has a host of benefits,  and so hopefully, as you’re listening, you’re starting to say, gosh, why are we not focusing on this? The challenge for you, if you’re listening to this, is that you are a leader, and creating an inclusive space is not something that can just be resigned to a human resources department. It is something that everyone must take on, and it’s up to today’s leaders to make significant progress in bringing more voices to the table and overcoming any obstacles in the way of creating a diverse workforce. We’re talking about allyship, making sure that people know that they can feel included, that they can feel connected, that you appreciate their differences, their expertise, their experience, their past whatever that may be, but you appreciate them as an individual. The Benefits of a Diverse Workforce What are the benefits of a diverse workforce? Well, productivity— we’re working better together. We’re also working smarter and not harder by allowing everyone to have a voice, bringing unique insight, which can drive innovation, different ways of doing things that can put us ahead in terms of the market or our competition. When you have a more diverse and inclusive workplace, you can also reduce turnover because people feel safe, which is a fundamental foundational element that everyone must feel at a workplace. If you want them to truly engage and do their best. In addition,  all about that engagement. When I feel like I’m invited to the party and asked to dance, well, absolutely. I want to choose what song comes on. I want to make up a group dance maybe. You get where I’m going with this. We are more engaged when we feel more included, and we collaborate better. There are so many benefits of diversity and inclusion. There are just so many benefits, and it’s one thing that we have control over. However, there are some systems that may have been created earlier that didn’t necessarily take into consideration the value of diversity. And what I mean is that maybe there are some faulty things in how we think. Maybe, and really it comes down to unconscious bias. Understanding Bias in the Workplace So where do you start when you’re thinking about how do I assess my organization? How do I assess my own role as a leader? Well, we need to understand, and this is just one part of where to start from diversity, equity, and inclusion. And that is understanding our own biases. Now we partnered with a thought leader, Dr. Tyrone Holmes. And what he would say is that your biases aren’t bad. We all have them. You can’t get away from it. However, we need to be aware of when our biases are coming into play that is causing us to make conscious or subconscious decisions and choices that could marginalize or not take into account an underrepresented group. For those that are unfamiliar with unconscious bias, by definition, it’s a collection of preferences, attitudes, and stereotypes that influence thinking and behavior in a way we don’t usually realize. We’re not necessarily aware of it. It’s a shortcut for our brain saying, okay, if this is that, then this, and it’s something that we built over life.It’s kind of like a computer where we programmed it. And our goal as leaders is to understand our programming and understand if we need an update. The Maternal Wall Now, the common places that you may see patterns of bias show up in the workplace, you could see it from the maternal perspective. For example, women with children are often questioned about their ability to care for their families, as well as staying committed to their careers. They’re also regularly met with disapproval if they seem too career-focused, how do you win there? However, men with children are often seen as more responsible and given priority for raises and promotions. That is a bias. We cannot simply believe that because women have had children that they’re unable to focus on their careers or that they’re not deserving of an additional raise or that in some way, we need to really keep them in a box. So in case, they have to jump back and, you know, care for their family. Interestingly, there’s a gender bias within that. Prove it Again Another bias that can show up in a workplace is called the, prove it again, bias. Now, this is when maybe some groups are given presumption of competence. You just assume like, Hey, we’ve worked together. I know that you’re going to do a great job. And so over and over, they are given the opportunity to take on more prestigious projects or more visible projects. In contrast, other people still have to keep proving it until they can get there. However, the more that you keep focusing on one person and seeing that person as someone great, then you’re not allowing someone else to learn, grow, develop, and also show you the value that they can bring to your organization. Walking the Tightrope Another type of bias in the workplace is the tight group that the, excuse me, the tight rope. And this is really when some groups experience a more narrow range of acceptable behaviors than others. And it affects their interactions with their peers. Their bosses. An example could be this- when black men or women are afraid to speak up with a differing opinion, for fear of being seen as an “angry black person.” Like, Oh my gosh, if you have an emotion, well, then there’s going to be an adjustment. That’s going into a generalization. We need to check ourselves. If we have any of those types of judgments, it’s not fair to say, Oh, they show up that way, and then tolerate someone else doing it. We can see that inequity. Children can see that. Tug of War Bias Another type of bias that exists is the tug of war. And this is when disadvantaged groups find themselves pitted against each other. And it’s usually because of differing approaches to assimilating to the dominant culture that exists in that workplace. So it could feel like a pressure to conform to the opinion of your peers of the same gender or race to maintain status within that peer group. Affinity Bias Now there are, of course, other biases that exist within the workforce. A big one is the affinity bias, which is the tendency to gravitate towards people that are most like ourselves. And that makes sense. That’s one of the easiest ways. If I think about it to make friends, you might say, Oh my gosh, if I’m feeling a little uncomfortable, I’m going to try and find the person that might have the shirt of my favorite band, or it looks like they really liked the color purple. We might subconsciously look for those things that are most like us because they make us feel more comfortable. Our brain says it’s safe. We understand it. We are programmed that way. And when it comes down to the workplace, when we make decisions with our affinity bias. That’s when we can have what Tyrone Holmes would call— and other people could call— a monoculture or just a singular culture where it’s very homogenous. Everyone looks the same talks, the same thinks the same. And you can consider if you have everyone looking the same, how in the heck are you going to be able to find multiple solutions to a problem? We need diversity. Beauty Bias Another bias that you can see in the workplace is the beauty bias to assuming that because of someone’s physical appearance, that they may be more intelligent, more capable, more X, Y, Z, and it actually has nothing to do with their own intellect experience. So we need to be cautious. Are you gravitating towards people that are more, maybe, aesthetically pleasing to the eye based on media cultures and norms? Well, that could be a detriment for your team. And you’re going to be marginalizing someone that actually could be a huge contributor to your success. Inclusive Leadership is Needed to Overcome Bias in the Workplace So why do we need to change? Well, 57% of employees say they believe their company should improve diversity in their internal workforce. And nearly a quarter of employees report that they have experienced discrimination at their current place of work— 25%. To me, that’s insane to know that you have discrimination for your race, for your culture, for your religion, sexual orientation work should be a safe place, a place that you can go and bring out the best of your abilities to contribute and invest in the organization. It should not be a place where you feel afraid to show up in one way or that you could have discrimination or just being a different religion or culture, so on and so forth.So what can you do as a leader? What are some of the things that you can do? Well, you want to focus on six key traits. These are the traits of inclusive leadership. Make a Visible Commitment The first trait is that you have a visible commitment. Inclusive leaders are not only able to talk about their commitment to diversity, but they take real action. So it’s not just talking about it. They actually are to take the expression. Don’t talk about it. Be about it. They’re very focused on creating a more inclusive place as well as holding people accountable. So that means that they are not staying silent. If they observed microaggressions or unfairness within the workplace, they are going to call that out. Be Humble Another trait of an inclusive leadership or leader is humility. And these leaders are modest about their own talents. They are able to admit when they don’t know something. And when they’ve made mistakes in their ability to be humble, creates a safe space for others to feel free, to contribute, make mistakes, without feeling the fear of consequence. So on and so forth. So humility saying, I don’t have it all figured out, and that’s okay. I’m here to learn from you. I’m also perfectly imperfect,  making mistakes, and we want everyone to have that same permission to operate in that way. Be Aware of Unconscious Bias Another trait of an inclusive leader is an awareness of your bias. We just talked about some only a few of the biases that exist in the workplace. But we, as leaders, need to know that we are all biased and inclusive leaders show personal awareness and openness to feedback about their personal blind spots. So they’re not running from it. They’re not trying to pretend they don’t have it. They are owning that bias exists, and they’re actively working to try and figure out how they can mitigate it from their processes and decisions. Be Curious About Others Another trait of an inclusive leader is a curiosity about others. And that kind of goes back to humility, but really,  curiosity, they are often described as open-minded and good listeners and enjoy learning about others. And they can also demonstrate compassion and empathy. Curiosity about others is really the opportunity to connect with anyone, recognizing that we’re more alike than we are different. But we won’t uncover that unless we practice being curious, or even wanting to learn about a specific culture or just something different about someone else. Dr. Tyrone Holmes gave us an exercise in our recent webinar that said one way to do this is to have people maybe sit down and partners for 90 seconds and share all of the things that they are alike. So maybe we both like the same type of food. Maybe we’ve traveled to the same places, but the goal is to spend 90 seconds finding your common ground, and then you have to do switch it up and do 90 seconds finding all the ways that you are different. The outcome? Well, what Tyrone found is that people actually found more similarities than differences. And then, those similarities were used to form a more trustworthy and collaborative team and environment. So I would suggest that as something that you should do. Become Culturally Intelligent The fifth trait of a more inclusive leader is cultural intelligence. So these leaders are sensitive to cultural differences to the cultural differences, and they’re attentive to ways that they can adapt and include them. These leaders might even showcase cultural differences. Hey, how can we learn more about each other? Let’s do lunch and learn, or let’s have a conversation. They want people to know where we all have different backgrounds, cultures, experiences, so on and so forth and let’s celebrate them, pay attention, be respectful to them. Practice Effective Collaboration And the final trait of an inclusive leader is effective collaboration. Inclusive leaders empower their teams by encouraging diversity of thought. And they create psychological safety as well as team cohesion. So it’s all about that safe space where you say, I am going to show up this way. You can show up that way. So long as we’re all working together respectfully with kindness and doing our jobs to create success, we’re good. The more that we can take time to slow down and find our similarities, the better that we can resolve conflict, the higher our productivity, and the more engaged we’ll be. Overcome Bias in the Workplace Through Better Hiring Practices So how can you start to create a more inclusive workplace culture? We know that biases exist within ourselves, but we also need to understand that biases are going to show up in the structures and systems of our organizations. So one place to start is thinking about your hiring process. Are you overly leveraged in employee referrals? Well, that might cause you to have, again, more of the same homogeneous workforce. Are you looking at, or are you practicing the blind resume vetting process where you remove the name and you truly just look at the skill, are you going to other places outside of maybe a specific university to find different people? Invest in Learning and Development And so if it’s not your hiring process, there are so many ways that you can just begin to create a more inclusive space. Another thing you need to do is also invest in your development. How do you educate leaders on how to identify types of discrimination or microaggressions, how to address them appropriately, how to make sure that they know the values that the organization wants to have. You need to develop and train people. You can’t just assume that people are going to make these changes or show up in that way. So we’ve got to make a conscious effort at developing these soft skills. So people know what to do to create the best environment for all to thrive. Our Diversity Make Us Stronger You know, in closing this podcast just want to share one final thing that I think really shows the value of connecting. And it’s this quote. “I can do things you can not. You can do things I can not. Put together, we can do great things. (Mother Teresa)“ When we truly understand that our differences are what makes us more successful and that when we work together, we can leverage those strengths and differences in a way that can create something amazing. Well, that’s when we can do great things. Thank you so much for listening to today’s minisode on diversity, equity, and inclusion. Please stay tuned August, where we’re going to be covering a lot of perspectives about bias in the workplace because this is such an important topic. If you enjoyed today’s episode, feel free to share it with your friends or write us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. And again, remember that we do monthly webinars. You can find more information about them at crestcom.com. We do monthly webinars that cover a variety of topics, and we would love to see you there. Thank you so much for listening until next time.   The post Minisode 10: Building Awareness of Bias in the Workplace with Jenn DeWall appeared first on Crestcom International.

Hacking Your Biased Brain In this week’s episode, The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks with diversity and inclusion expert Maureen “Mo” Berkner Boyt, who’s the founder of The Moxie Exchange. Maureen spent over 25 years helping organizations grow by creating more inclusive workplaces where talented people can thrive. People around the world are using her tools, micro-learning courses, and the mobile app that she created to help them rock their Moxie. Maureen holds a master’s degree in organizational development and is the author of the five-book series, Rock Your Moxie: Power Moves for Women Leading the Way. Her “Disrupt HR talk, Hack Your Biased Brain is one of the most popular talks of the movement. Please welcome Maureen “Mo” Berkner Boyt. Full Transcript Below:  Jenn DeWall:  Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this episode of the leadership habit podcast, we are focused on all things, diversity, and inclusion, and here to support us and give more insight as well as tips for how you and your organization can thrive. Is Maureen, also known as Mo, Berkner Boyt Maureen, or I’m going to call you Mo! Well, how are you doing today? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  So fabulously and really, really excited to have this conversation. Jenn DeWall:  Oh my gosh. We have been looking forward to it. I know that you just have so much experience, but I, of course, I’ve had the opportunity to get to know you. So, if you could just share with our audience just a little bit about who you are and what you do. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  You bet. My background, I had the good fortune of working directly, my first job out of college, with a gentleman that was— they didn’t call them unicorns back then, but he was a unicorn. When I joined the company, there were about 3000 employees. When I left five years later, we were over 20,000 employees, and I got to see that happen. I got hooked on how to unleash the potential in people at work because that’s really what allows companies to grow like that. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah, absolutely. We know that it starts with the people and creating that right environment for them to thrive. You know, we’re going to be talking about diversity and inclusion, which we know is a hot topic right now. And it’s obviously something we want to sustain. What is diversity and inclusion for people that maybe are still a little bit unfamiliar with those terms, and why should organizations care? Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. That’s so what our diversity, equity, and inclusion are actually a really good place to start. Diversity is our range of differences. So diversity is everything from, you know, really quickly people think about race and ethnicity and gender. It is so much more than that. It’s everything from class, accents, beauty. And I say beauty, and you’re like, wow. Yeah. So there’s, there’s a bias, for example, here in the US around white men who are over six feet tall, like we, so that like our diversity is this wild range. People with disabilities, LGBTQ, religion, I talked about class— class is really intersectional on so many different things. So you just think about the broad, beautiful spectrum of people that, you know, that’s diversity. Equity is really setting up systems where every single one of those folks has the same opportunity to thrive. And inclusion is really, you know if you think about showing up at work and really being able to bring it all in a way that it’s, it’s a little bit, like, I feel like I can put my feet up on the coffee table. That’s inclusion. Kimberle Crenshaw one said, and I’d love this, diversity is being asked to the party. Inclusion is being asked to dance. Equity is being able to, and she didn’t say this piece of, I have to figure out who said this last part is equity is being able to choose the dance list, right? The music. So it’s, it is really about, and again, we talk about all of this because it’s about being able to unleash the full potential of everybody. Because when you do that, you make more money. You are more innovative. You are like the research just piles up that companies that are both diverse and inclusive when they win on every single possible measure. And the example that I use, Jenn, is if you look at a picture of the team that was able to take a picture of the black hole. Now, I don’t really care about astronomy. It’s not really my jam. But when I saw that they took a picture of a black hole like that, that’s mind-blowing. That team was, again, and I can even, maybe in the show notes or something, I can send a link to the photo. Age. There are young scientists there, old scientists. Race, it was I, I have to look at the data, but it was like 15 countries, six continents over 300 scientists, like one of the lead scientists. You can’t see this from the photo. I just know, because once I saw it, I had to dig in. He was in, out in science. He’s a gay man. There are people with disabilities. I mean, it is this beautiful picture of diversity. And because of that, they were doing; they did something that people thought could never be done. And that’s what happens when you have not just diversity, but inclusion, you get a higher team IQ, lower turnover, higher commitment, IQ, patent citations. I mean, it is across the board, and you’re making more money. The reason to do it is now you should be asking yourself if this— if we are not doing this— we should be asking ourselves why, because there is also research that shows that companies that are really homogenous are in the bottom quartile for all business results. So it’s not, why should we be doing this, but it’s really you should be questioning your leadership if you’re not thinking about how to win at this. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. It’s when, I mean, there’s obviously profits, which we know. I mean, I know it’s not the primary focus of all organizations, but it’s absolutely what they need to be able to sustain operations. So there’s that. And then, because we spent a third of our lives at work, so making sure that we feel safe in our place of employment is just at a personal level so essential. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  I mean, let’s just go with, it’s the right thing to do, like that’s baseline too, right? It’s just like seeing the humanity in other people and being able for them to bring that humanity is like, isn’t that a great thing? Yeah, absolutely. I always say in this work, think about the kids in your life. And they don’t have to be your own children. They could be nieces, nephews, the neighbor kids you know, whoever those kiddos are, they’re watching and are casting a shadow, and they’re watching and think about the world you want to create for them. A world where it really does not matter who you are, where you came from, the color of your skin, who you love, what ability your body has, or doesn’t have if you have mental health issues, any of those things, it doesn’t matter. You are still allowed to show up and do great work. Jenn DeWall:  Yes. And I love even talking about mental health as a thing to acknowledge. Because I think you do talk about it. We do talk about it a lot from maybe that gender or race perspective, but we aren’t addressing mental health. And from what I’m seeing in my experience like coaching organizations, people are really starting to crack as a result of the pandemic as a result of the stress. And we need to also create a safe space to talk about mental health. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah, no, I will say that the two that get overlooked the most are mental health issues because it was, and I love seeing younger and younger, well-known people come out and say, yeah, I’ve been diagnosed as bipolar. Right? And to sort of cast that off. And, and we are in a mental health crisis right now that’s not going away, so we better be able to talk about it. The other one is people with disabilities. So conservative estimates are one in five people. One in five people has a disability. It’s probably closer to one and four, and there’s a great, this is actually disability pride month. And here in the United States on the 26th, it is the 30th anniversary of the Americans with disabilities act, the ADA, which is one of the largest pieces of civil rights legislation we have ever passed in this country. So, you know, it’s still seen as people are like, Oh, can I say disabled? Well, that should be telling you something about your unconscious bias. And you’re able-ism if you’re saying like, can I even say disabled? The stats, Accenture, and Disability: IN did research. Unbelievable, the business results that you get when you hire people with disabilities and rightly so, they are the original life hackers. They have had to go around in a world that is not designed for them their entire lives. So if you want creativity, if you want innovation, if you want somebody thinking about like, Hey, here’s what our customer is going to think about this product or service. You better have folks with disabilities on your team. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. I don’t understand it. That’s so interesting that you say that like that one in four, what 25% of your workforce has that. I mean, I know I have Multiple Sclerosis, which is considered a disability, even though I can walk. Right. Like, so when people think about that disease, they think you can’t walk. And sure, there might be a time where I can’t walk, but it’s hard to also like embody disability sometimes because I think for fear of an employer not wanting you. Like, what if my MS goes in a different way than obviously I want it to, then does that make me not valuable anymore? Like that is a really scary feeling. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  And the, and the thing that is interesting about disability, it is one of the biases that almost all of us will end up having. Right? Yeah. Almost all of us will end up with some sort of disability in our lives. And the same thing with age and ageism. You’re going to age yourself right into your bias. Jenn DeWall:  Right, right. Oh my gosh. So check your bias if it’s about age because you’re headed in that direction. Why, why do organizations fail at diversity equity and inclusion efforts? Why do they fail? Why do Organizations Fail at Diversity and Inclusion? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  There is a myriad of reasons, but I would say the first is seeing it as warm and fuzzy. Right. Seeing it get everything that we just talked about with the business results—and then failing to measure because of that. So I think what’s interesting about this is people get people to kick out all sorts of ways about measurement when it comes to D&I. And it’s like, do you measure your sales? Do you measure your quality? Do you measure your, your turnover? You know, any business, you know, your customer turnover, do you measure your customer satisfaction? If you see D&I as a true business driver, then you better be measuring it. Jenn DeWall:  And, you know, people just don’t, I think, realize that soft skills can be measurable. They may not be a direct, Hey, because of this, that impeded our sales. But how you communicate, but the type of culture that you can, that you create, you just have to find and look for the signs. Maybe it’s turnover; maybe it’s this, maybe it’s issues, waste, or hours wasted on conflict. You can measure this stuff. It does not have to be a direct, obvious way of seeing it. You absolutely can measure that. Sorry to interrupt you. I just think it’s so interesting that people, you know, really have a hard time with some of the soft stuff to say, well, how do I measure that? You can’t measure that. You can. And it all does impact your bottom line. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Well, and I would say this, when you look at those organizations, again, there’s nothing “soft” about this when it comes to your business results. So you can, you can measure diversity, you can measure all of those things. You can have people self-report, and you can talk about that self-reporting because it is right that we’re trying to get better at this. Because we know if we do this, its a better organization for everybody. So we tend to think of it. And, and because we do not see it as a business driver, it’s also not put on our strategic map. It’s not put on our strategic priority. We are not holding people accountable for results. And if people aren’t held accountable to results, whether that’s my pay, right, If I’m an executive, the companies that are getting this right, they Microsoft, as an example, their CEO— 10 or 15% of his comp is based on driving diversity and inclusion, right. Diversity and inclusion. Jenn DeWall:  Wow. 10-15% of compensation! There might be some people that are saying, how could you possibly attribute that much to diversity and inclusion? Maureen Berkner Boyt: Microsoft knows that it’s a business driver, right? So that’s one, that’s one failure, right. We don’t measure it. And then we don’t hold people accountable. So I think that’s the other piece. Until there is both either pain or gain that I feel, as a leader, I’m not incentivized to spend my time or my talent working or my budget working on that. So we have, there has to be accountability. There has to be measurement, right? There has to be prioritization. And then there has to be pain or gain for leadership in actually moving the needle. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. Pain or gain. A mindset. Right. Like, I think this is what we’re seeing is just so much of the opportunity to educate people. Oh, there are so many people that like, I don’t even think. And, you know, I know that you know, this more than anyone else, like they don’t even realize that they have biases. They think that like, Hey, I am totally inclusive. Like I, you know, I am a great leader. We all have our own judgments. The accountability, the measurement piece. And then that mindset piece that, Hey, check yourself before you wreck yourself to quote some type of song. I don’t even know where that came from, but yeah, we have to understand that and take ownership of it. Everyone is Biased Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. We actually—one of the foundational pieces that everybody needs to understand in this, that is that every single one of us is biased. It’s the way our brain functions. It is, it is literally built. The neuroscience that’s coming out around unconscious bias is awesome. What’s interesting is we cannot stop at knowing there’s research that says if I just find out and do research and, and maybe I go through an unconscious bias class, I will actually behave in a more biased way because I think I’m not biased anymore. The example that I use is to imagine I were a diabetic. I could do a ton of research on how my pancreas secretes insulin. Right. But I couldn’t turn around and say, all right, do it right pancreas. Like I know now, so I’m fine. It’s the same thing with our brain. The research is telling us that it’s unconscious bias is firing in our medulla, our left frontal lobe. Right. It is how we very quickly filter and sort information back in the day it was, are you safe or not? Should I run or should I stay, right? Should I fight? Or should I get out of here? Right. So, but now we have millions of bits of literally millions of bits of information coming at us all day long. If we didn’t have our unconscious bias, we’d be curled up in a corner, sucking our thumb, right? So our bias helps us filter and sort really quickly, safe, not safe. Is somebody, and we have positive and negative bias. So what we have to understand is that we’re holding up a mirror that reflects our reality and our biases, not the reality and the bias. So we have to put, we have to pause and put bias interrupters in place so that we actually can look at people in situations and make those unbiased decisions. We have a whole toolkit because it is, I mean, there are things I don’t trust a single thing my brain thinks anymore. Because- Jenn DeWall:  That’s interesting! And it’s hard, but I love that you have that awareness around what is coming up for you. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  So one of the, I always say curiosity is an inclusion superpower. So if you question yourself and think to yourself, what’s the bias here? Not is there a bias, but what bias could be firing right now. Right? Could I have a bias? And again, there’s positive and negative. Am I giving somebody the benefit of the doubt that shouldn’t be getting that? Or am I doubting somebody that I shouldn’t be doubting? And so it’s you know, what else could be true? What’s the bias. This was the original thought that I had about this person. What else could be true? And putting as much process and system in place as you possibly can to hack your biased brain. And you know, we, we talk about this at, you have to, you have to look at it at a systems level. You have to look at it at a team level, and you have to look at it at an individual level and every step of the way you have to be interrupting bias. Jenn DeWall:  Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so it’s breaking it down. So if we’re thinking about where to start, you know, one of the first places is understanding, it sounds like that it occurs at all levels and that we have to pay attention to it at these levels, whether it’s a systems level, a team level or an individual level, but for those people that are either watching or listening to this, hearing our conversation, what, what tips would you have for them to either become more inclusive as a leader or an organization? Where do they start? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah, I think, I think the first is having the conversation. So let’s talk about at the leadership level. Taking a hard look in the mirror, looking at your results, right? Face the brutal facts, Jim Collins. Where do we stand right now? And what do we aspire to, right? If we know that this is about driving business results, and by the way, there is a leader that I worked with. Now they’re a winery. They’re more than a winery. They’re a wine company. They own, I don’t know how many vineyards in Canada. And we were, I was in talking with their team, talking about unconscious bias, talking about all of this. And he looked at his team. He said, isn’t this the coolest leadership challenge? Like, isn’t this an amazing opportunity for us to really look at our leadership, look at how we’re behaving, and create an organization? He said, you know, we get as leaders, we see a lot of the same problems. Like, Oh, we’ve got a supply chain issue, or we have this, we, he said, this is new. This is different. This is exciting. And that’s, so I would say as an incentive, thinking about this as like, you know, this is politically correct, or this is like, like what a cool challenge, how to become a more inclusive leader. Because we know the end result of that is better business results. So for me to step into this with curiosity, to put it on our strategic map, to start to measure it, and then to say, how can we give every single person in this organization tools? Right? How can we create a common language? How can we say at work, you know what, we’re on a journey we’re gonna screw up. Right? Jenn DeWall:  Because your bias is still there, you have to still work through the fact that this is something that was programmed in that you, it takes, it’s a process, not a single event. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. So we say, right, it’s a journey. Like anything else you can’t, you would never stop looking at quality. Right? If you’re producing a product, you wouldn’t just say, okay, we got it right now. Now we’re not going to, and we’re going to, we’re going to stop. Jenn DeWall:  Right – just check that off your list. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  We are never going to check this off your list. It’s a part of how you do business. So start with that, taking a look in the mirror, where are we now? Where do we want to be? How are we going to measure, how are we going to incentivize? And how do we get tools to every single person? You know, then again, that goes back to the systems level. Okay. If we’ve measured and, and we don’t have people with disabilities, as an example. How are we going to go out and actively recruit? What is our brand out there telling people what’s our social media look like? What does our website look like? Who’s on our recruiting, all of it. So lots of steps to take. Jenn DeWall:  So it’s, we have to understand where we are. And I like the one point that you had said, making sure that the tools are available to everyone. Yes. What do you think? Like where’s the failure there? Where do organizations typically fail? I think it just starts with the leadership team, and it’s supposed to trickle down. What’s going on. Diversity and Inclusion is Everyone’s Job Maureen Berkner Boyt:  It definitely can start with the leadership team, so this is another reason why, why D&I has stalled is, Oh, that’s HR’s job, right? Send it to human resources. Or if your organization’s large enough, Oh, the D&I is going to take care of that. Instead of saying inclusion is how each one of us shows up every single day. The example that we use is this being an inclusive leader; being an inclusive organization is cultural, right? It’s how it feels every day. And that’s how you and I treat each other day in and day out. It is like the choices that I make in leading a healthy lifestyle. I have to wake up every day, think about what I’m going to eat, how much exercise I’m going to get, how I’m going to manage my stress, how much sleep I’m going to get. Those are all; there are choices that I’m making all day long about. Am I going to eat the apple, or am I going to eat the Fritos? Right? Am I going to blow up when something goes wrong? Or am I going to take some deep breaths and think about how I can manage that stress? Am I going to take a 15-minute break now and again, and get up and stand up and move my body instead of sitting at my computer all day? Those are all choices that I make that lead to a healthy weight, healthy blood pressure, healthy cholesterol. I don’t get to get there. And then be like, now I get to sit on the couch and eat Frito’s all day! Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  I wake up the next day, the next day. And sometimes I’m going to mess up, and I’m gonna be like, I’m going to have a bad weekend, or I’m going to have a bad day, and I’m going to eat too much. I’m going to drink too much. I’m not going to manage my stress. I get up the next day and make the choices again. So that over time, right, that arc is a healthy lifestyle. But day in and day out. Inclusion is the same thing. It’s what are the choices that we’re going to make about who we’re going to hire. About what, how we’re going to run our meetings, are we going to allow interruptions? Are we going to always ask the women to take notes? Or are we going to put those interrupters every single day? So that the arc over time is an inclusive culture, but it’s everybody engaging in that, but you can’t have an inclusive culture if it’s just a subset of people that it’s like, Oh, they’re going to fix that. It’s you and I all day. Right? How does, how does our team make decisions in an inclusive way? How do we, you know, do the hiring, the firing, the promotions? Who gets to have the really cool stretch assignments, all of those are a part of inclusion. Jenn DeWall:  Well, and I like that, it’s, it’s a top-down, but it’s also a bottom-up approach. We can’t just put it on one or the other. And I think it’s important because I guarantee if there’s, you know, for the leaders that are listening, just evaluate your organization, be curious, I love that. You said curiosity is just, you know, one of the places that we can really begin, that’s the piece that we have to have, but be curious. Because I think the more that you look at this earlier on in your career too, as no matter where you are, but also earlier on, recognize, like, are there themes? Could there potentially be biased in my organization? Because I could say that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Okay. There is definitely bias in your organization. Jenn DeWall:  Right. It’s not whether it could be, but it’s what it is. Because I know that from, I worked at an organization and it’s not that I directly experienced the bias in this way, but what I would say is that I could very easily— based on someone’s appearance— say, I guarantee that person will get to this level, that person will get to this level, this person will get to that level. And I wasn’t even part of those decisions, but it was just such a groomed like this is how everyone had to show themselves. It was like the beautiful-people awards. Not necessarily what we want when we’re thinking about decisions and where they need to be about equality and diversity and just the value of all those people. But, you know, so if you’re working at some of those organizations, check yourself because that’s not the right way to do business. And it’s also going to cost you in the long run. Understanding how Diversity and Inclusion Affects Careers Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. There are a couple of, and some of our bias, like the strongest, is “like me” bias where Jenn DeWall:  So much “like me” at that organization. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Well, almost, almost every organization is, and the way this shapes up. So the way unconscious bias impacts careers is— I say it’s like headwinds and tailwinds. So if I am, and for the most part, I’ll talk about US-based for a moment. If in the US, it tends to be if I am a white, male, cis-gender, which means that the gender, the sex I was born with. So, I was born the female sex, and my gender aligns with me. Like I identify as a woman, cisgender heterosexual, able-bodied right. Like all of those things and tends to be not as much anymore, but Christian, right? Like I have a positive bias. Right. We see white, able-bodied cis-men as leaders. We see them as capable. We see them as capable of like, then let’s take the reverse of that. If I’m a black female with a disability who’s queer. Right? Any one of those things, I have headwinds. Things are a little harder for me. Even me with all kinds of positive, right. That my skin is white, I’m able-bodied, I’m cisgender, I’m heterosexual. All those things, I’m still a woman. Right? So I still have these, these slight headwinds. Over time, what that looks like is my career looks like this. It feels like death by a million paper cuts sometimes. You can’t quite put your finger on it. It’s the I’m getting interrupted in the meetings all the time. I’m being asked to get the coffee. I have been asked to prove it, and prove it again at my work. People think that I’m lucky versus I worked really hard. And that’s exhausting, right? That’s exhausting over time. One of the things that is really, I think, can be groundbreaking beyond like curiosity, understanding every single person is biased. It’s not one group doing it to another. Is this idea of, we’re not trying to take when we talk about inclusion, diversity, and inclusion, it’s not about taking those tailwinds away. It’s about creating those tailwinds for everybody. Because, don’t, we want everybody to show up and do their best work and to bring their brilliant, all their brilliant talent and not be disengaged? Right? Or not be thwarted instead like, Oh my gosh, we’re unleashing everybody’s potential. That’s what this is about. So I think sometimes people think, Oh, it’s about taking away. No. It’s about creating for everybody. Jenn DeWall:  I love. I mean, and it sounds so much more powerful. And again, it goes back to what you had said before. This is an opportunity for you as an organization to make a better place for all to work. What an exciting challenge. Mo, what advice or tips would you have? Like, how do you tackle it? How do you even begin to chip away at something? Especially if your organization might be in the infancy stages of an approach around diversity, equity, and inclusion, how do you tackle it? Or what are some ways or tips that they can tackle it? How can Leadership Approach Diversity and Inclusion? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Well, for sure, framing it up as exciting, right? Like some people, like, if you feel like if your leadership team is coming at this like you’re getting, you know, sent to the executioners, like that’s, that’s going to come out instead of like, this is, this is exciting. And we are, we have an opportunity, every single person to be better. So we’re going to learn together. We’re going to make missteps together. We’re going to create a culture. That’s a growth environment that we’re not like blame and shame has no place. Right. And I think that’s the other thing. We can’t allow blame and shame around where we are now or around mistakes. Hundred percent guarantee, 100% guarantee people in your organization, and you are going to say and do the wrong thing. I actually put out a LinkedIn post about this. This is the work that I do. And I said, here are three mistakes that I made in the last three weeks. Right. Because it’s going to happen. So I think we— I think setting that context, this is exciting. This is a journey we’re doing this because everybody gets to win. We’re creating tailwinds for everybody. We’re not taking anything away, and let’s learn and grow together. Right. So let’s commit to calling it out if we see something in a way that is not blaming or shaming, that it’s like, Hey, I know that you would never want to be the person that makes somebody feel othered, or like they don’t belong. Be open to hearing an opportunity to get better. And then you’re addressing these things in real-time. So I think that you know, coming out and saying, we didn’t know what we didn’t know before now. We all- let’s learn together. Let’s get better together. That’s a pretty cool place to work in and of itself. And then you can start to look at things at the systems level. Measure. Right? Make some people accountable, right? Like, Hey, here’s, here’s the plus. If we start to make progress, here are some consequences if we don’t. And then, look at the systems level, start with your recruiting. What’s our employment brand. Scan your website, scan your social media. Think about who’s on your recruiting teams. Have you do you have folks trained? Do they understand unconscious bias and how it pops up? I mean, there there’s so much research, you know, like looking at resumes, blind screening who sits on your committees, what your candidate pools look like. Sponsorship Vs. Mentorship Maureen Berkner Boyt: I mean, I can, that’s like off the top of my head, quick stuff. Right. As leaders think about your, “like me” bias in your development opportunities. Mentorship and sponsorship. And if folks don’t know the difference between the two, mentorship is giving advice. Oh, if I were in your shoes or when I was in your shoes, here’s what I did—a sounding board. Sponsorship is really mentorship on steroids. It is taking that person under your wing and saying, come with me. I’m taking you with me to the top. And it’s spending your capital, right? It’s spending your capital within the organization, putting their name in for stretch assignments, for promotions, advocating for them. It’s a very active relationship. I guarantee you you’re already sponsoring somebody in your organization. You just don’t know. And so it’s really intentional about both those mentorship and sponsorship opportunities, because sponsorship if there was a secret sauce to getting into leadership, it’s sponsorship. 30% more pay raises promotions and stretch assignments. And so if leaders simply have a conversation and say, I need to sponsor somebody who doesn’t look like me, right? Because my “like me” bias is going to kick in. I’m going to look down and say, Oh my gosh, he reminds me of me. When I was that age, I’m just going to invite him to go golf, or I’m going to, I’m going to include him on that email stream about this decision that we’re making. I’m going to get him exposure to the other leaders. I’m going to get, make sure that he goes to that conference. You know, all of these, all these development opportunities that happen instead, it’s saying I’m going to sponsor somebody that is not like me. That, you know, maybe it’s a woman. Maybe it’s a person with a disability. Maybe it’s somebody different racial, ethnic background than mine. Maybe it’s somebody LGBTQ, like all of those things, I’m going to sponsor somebody. That’s not like me because I understand that sponsorship is the path to leadership. I’m going to use my capital because I know the business results, right. And that person is qualified, right? It is not that they’re not qualified. Great examples. Indra Nooyi, former CEO of Pepsi, co Ursula Burns, former CEO of Xerox, Sheryl Sandberg, current COO of Facebook, every one of those women, right? Two of them are women of color. So they’re women. Two of them are women of color. Every single one of those women brilliant worked her tail off. Right? Managed her career was really savvy, and managing her career. And every single one of them had a very powerful sponsor within their companies. Jenn DeWall:  So I didn’t realize that! That there was that sponsorship. Okay. Awesome. I mean, obviously, I know those names, but I definitely didn’t realize that. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  They got to where they are because of the power of sponsorship. So think about who you’re sponsoring. And then you’re looking at who gets to go to the conference, all those things. There’s a great the former CEO of Kaiser Permanente put in place, what he called the rule of two, that only two people could look the same. And then the third person for consideration, for a stretch assignment, a promotion development opportunity had to look different. The organizations that we work with, leaders come back to us all the time and say, Oh my gosh, that’s like, we have great talent all over the place. They just weren’t the first people I thought about. But when I put that pause in place, when I put that bias interrupter in place, it caused me to look again and go back and see those folks that I hadn’t before. How to Get Everyone Involved Jenn DeWall:  I love that. And I like the expression of a bias interrupter. What do you say to the people? Because I think that there are some people that are a little threatened by diversity and inclusion because then they feel like they won’t have options anymore. Which, I mean, the one thing you can say is, think about other people have been living. They didn’t have the options. Like, what do you say to the criticizers? I mean, because we need to get them on board too, because they’re in organizations and we need to help educate and inform them, like, how can we still quell the people that may have benefited from it, but need to do better? Do we fire them? Do we like— what do we do? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. I think that’s where thinking about, so there are a couple of things, and this is often gets missed that the people that are the most inclusive get ahead, those that get along and get ahead—so having them understand how it benefits them in their career. Excuse me, being inclusive is a piece that we often miss. Right. So also thinking about and showing some of those having them understand, think about the last time somebody on your team quit and what a pain in the butt, it was having to bring a new person on board, get them trained up, get them up to speed, all the extra work that you had to do all of the, well, how about 22% less turnover on your team? When you’re, when you have inclusive teams. How about greater team commitment? So the person sitting to your left and the person sitting to your right, even in that virtual zoom room, they’re bringing their A-games instead of just showing up and taking up space, right? So it benefits you directly benefits you to have an inclusive team, and opportunities are not pie, right? So when we’re creating tailwinds for everybody, the company is growing, we’re doing better financially. There’s again, more opportunity for you. So instead of being threatened by it again, it’s like we all get to win and win more. When we’re inclusive, that benefits you, that benefits your paycheck, that benefits the opportunities that are gonna come your way, that benefits you day in and day out with the people working with you, pulling their weight. Yes. Be Aware of the Most Common Biases Jenn DeWall:  That’s the whole like together, we rise. Not looking at it from a place of scarcity, but recognizing that if one person succeeds, that doesn’t mean you fail. It means that we all, when we rise by lifting others, like if that was going to tackle and try to understand where to start with my own biases, like what bias comes up with me. Are there a few that are more prevalent? That you’d say, okay, check this bias, this bias, and this bias first. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. So in the workplace, the two in the workplace that pop up the most are actually age and disability. So ageism kicks in around people’s early forties. So it’s earlier than people believe. Ageism & Ableism Jenn DeWall:  And what does ageism mean? Is that when you’re in your early forties, you think someone is too old or too young to be able to do specific tasks. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  That, that means that once I hit my early forties, people younger than me are looking at me and saying, Oh, she doesn’t, she can’t learn new tech. Or right. She’s not as engaged. She’s just taken up space. Right. So we’ve heard too. So ageism kicks in, particularly in the tech industry. And people with disabilities, right. We tend to think of people with disabilities as just not capable. And so start, start with those two and then certainly race, gender, and LGBTQ, the more subtle are I talked about beauty bias. So we tend to, and I skipped a really big one. So let me go back to that. Maternal bias is enormous. Jenn DeWall:  So that’s the women who have kids. Maternal Bias Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. So maternal bias has crashed and burned more careers for women than you can imagine. And that looks like she can’t be both a good employee and a good mom. Now that she’s had- I left a company that I loved, absolutely loved because of maternal bias. My boss started to, you know, say things like, you know, you should really be, you know, to be a good mom, you should really be staying home. Right. Or, you know, maybe you want to take this part-time. Or, and, and I looked up, and nobody that had attained the leadership was a mom. There were dads, right? Because we don’t do the same thing with fathers. So maternal bias is enormous. So I would, you know, to combat maternal bias, you assume that she wants her foot on the gas pedal of her career just like she had it before, don’t start doing things like, oh, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna give her that project. Cause it’s really challenging. And she’s got a baby at home, right. Where you think you’re actually helping her, that’s hurting her career. Let her tell you. Let her tell you. Jenn DeWall:  Yes. I mean, just so many, whether it’s just so many assumptions about that, whereas I know plenty of women that are both moms that are extremely career-driven and want to be successful and want the opportunity. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  I took all the training that that company had given me all of the training to an organization that didn’t care if I had kids or not. Right. So they, I never quit working. Right. I never quit working. I just took, I just took my skills and my assets to a place that valued me for my output. Didn’t care about hours, you know, hours in the seat, they were willing to be flexible. There’s a really fantastic company, Moss Adams. They looked at who was coming out of school with finance degrees and who is getting their CPAs. And they saw it was more women than men. And then they looked at their partner group and said, Oh, if we want to keep growing, we have to figure out how to keep women on the partner track. They came up with a flexibility policy that is open to men and women. That’s brilliant. You already have to be a high performer. And if you have a life event, which for women tends to be, I just gave birth. Or 80% of caregivers for sick and elderly are women, right? So we get sandwiched. They said, okay, we hire for retention. We know these things are going to happen. We’re not going to let it take somebody off a partner track. So people that are already high-performers it’s for a period of time, generally a year, it’s gotta be good for the company, and it’s gotta be good for them. We’ll work out a flexible work arrangement. Because it’s easier to see you through that little bit of time and to have this benefit of a diverse partner group than it is to let you know, to take you off the partner track or to lose you altogether and have to hire somebody new and get them up to speed and onboard the clients. Moss Adams continues to be one of the fastest-growing service organizations in the country. This is US-based. They started in California, they’re as far East now, as I think they’re all the way into like Minnesota, Wisconsin, right? And they just keep acquiring these firms, growing organically. They’re killing it. Right? Because they figured out how to interrupt that maternal bias. That’s one example of a- and they have a deep commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. I love it. Jenn DeWall:  I’ve really enjoyed our conversation today, Mo, any last things that you would want to share with people before I go to our final question? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. Hack your biased brain, right? Like, see this as the exciting opportunity to grow as a leader, which then has the ripple impact of growing your organization, which has the ripple impact of the good things that happen out in your communities. And, and see this as I see it as that exciting challenge. It’s like a healthy lifestyle. It’s how you show up every single day and hack your biased brain. What else can be true? Be curious! What is Your Leadership Habit for Success? Jenn DeWall:  Be Curious! And hack your biased brain. I love it. We are all biased. You every single person listening. Right. We always wrap up every podcast with one closing question, which is, what is your leadership habit for success? What do you do to maintain your success? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Ooh, I have to pick one—my morning power hour. So yeah, I wake up every morning, and I start with gratitude. So the things that I’m grateful for then I set my top five priorities for the day. And those priorities are tied to a month. Like monthly, quarterly, annual, and five-year goals. So what do I need to do today? That gets me to five years, and sometimes those are small, and sometimes those are big. And then I read something to learn. Sometimes that’s a podcast, you know, listening to a podcast. And so I learn. I used to say I read, but I learn. And then I do some exercise, and that can be introduced weights and core in my basement or a walk. And not until I’ve done all of that, then I check my email. Jenn DeWall:  And then you get into it. One tool that could help someone’s leadership habit for success is one of the apps that you offer and, or the app that you offer, I should say. But we talked about, you know, diversity, equity, and inclusion, but you actually have a tool that leaders and organizations can use called the Everyday Inclusion app. What is that? Cause I know, we’re going to share that with you, with listeners, that’ll be in the show notes that I’ll obviously be in the bumper, but what is that in your words? Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Yeah. You know, we really looked at this idea that we’re addicted to our technology. We check our phones, on average, 52 times a day. And if we spent one of those times just with an inclusion nudge. A little inclusion tip, like maybe it’s about to be Ramadan, and I can go, and I can look up Ramadan. Or I just met somebody with a disability, and I want to know what words to use, or I want to figure out how to run an inclusive meeting. That’s all in the app. And it’s right in the palm of people’s hands. So it’s one to two minutes a day, right? Just that making inclusion a daily habit. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. Everyday inclusion. I love that. That’s a great way to hack your bias, just paying attention to it. Yup. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. I’ll provide a link in the show notes as well as in the bumper for you guys to connect with Mo. But just to remember, and in Mo’s words, get out there and hack your bias to create a better place that will yield higher profits when you bring everyone to the table. Thank you so much, Mo. Maureen Berkner Boyt:  Well, This was so fun. Thanks, Jenn. Jenn DeWall:  Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit featuring Maureen Berkner Boyt. If you want to connect with Maureen, you can find more resources and also demo the everyday inclusion app to help your organization make inclusion a regular part of the way you do business. You can head on over to everydayinclusionapp.com, or you can follow the link from our show notes. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to share it with your friends and rate and review us on your favorite podcast streaming service. And please stay with us for the entire month of August as we provide more content surrounding the very important topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion.   The post Episode 34: Hack Your Biased Brain with Diversity and Inclusion Expert, Maureen Berkner Boyt, Founder of The Moxie Exchange appeared first on Crestcom International.

In this special minisode, The Leadership Habit host, Jenn DeWall shares her tips for embracing a growth mindset to strengthen you resilience as a leader. Full Transcript Below   Embrace a Growth Mindset to Strengthen Your Resilience Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and I am so excited to bring you another minisode for The Leadership Habit podcast. We are going to be continuing our month of resilience because we know that in today’s environment, resilience is an essential skill, an ability that all leaders need. So what does it mean to have a resilient mindset? Well, just as a refresher, it’s the ability to overcome adversity. It’s the ability to pick yourself up or look at a challenging circumstance and say, I can handle it. Or even say, if someone says, no, you say all right, well where there’s a will, there’s a way, and I will figure out my way to yes. But today, in terms of resilience— one of the things that we’re going to be talking about is the difference between a fixed and a growth mindset. A growth mindset is essential to being a resilient leader because it allows you to see the possibilities. But for those that may be unfamiliar, let’s talk about the difference between the two now. What is a Fixed Mindset? A fixed mindset is a belief that your talent is set, that essentially, you can’t change or develop yourself. And a fixed mindset also may avoid challenges as a result of that. It might be because we’re not feeling particularly confident, or we don’t feel like we have the tools or the abilities to handle something. Also, a fixed mindset can ignore criticism, believing that maybe they’re right, or there’s no possible way that someone could find a different way. This is the only way to do something. Also, a fixed mindset can give up easily. That means that one “No” could kill something. Which when we’re thinking about resilience with our teams, we need to show people that “no” doesn’t mean it’s completely done. It might mean that we need to look at something in a different way to educate people more so on and so forth. Another characteristic of a fixed mindset is that they blame others. You know who that person is. It’s the one that you might work with and interact with that’s pointing to someone else saying the reason we got into this mess is all because of another person. What is a Growth Mindset? But now let’s talk about the growth mindset— because this is really what we need. This is what’s going to enable our success. And it’s also going to allow us to be the leaders that others want to follow. Because a growth mindset believes that talent can be developed. That means that if you don’t know something, that’s okay. You can learn and figure that out. In addition, someone with a growth mindset embraces challenges saying, huh, what’s another way to look at that. Or what’s the benefit of this? They don’t look at the challenge as the stopping point. Rather, it’s just a way that they might have to change directions. A growth mindset also learns from feedback and criticism. So instead of shutting down, blaming others or saying, woe is me- they say, wow, thank you so much for the opportunity to take this feedback and under consideration and use it for my own success. Or use it to help the team or organization grow. Feedback is one of the only ways that we can ensure whether we’re getting something right. And so we have to learn how to embrace it. Even if it might be tough, in addition, someone with a growth mindset, perseveres, that means when there is an error or a mistake, or someone says no, or anything happens that might’ve not been according to plan, that we can still figure it out. I like to call it our own ability to just say, no matter what happens— even if the worst of the worst happens— I can still figure it out. Because my “why” or what I want to accomplish is so great that I will do whatever it takes to get there. And last someone with a growth mindset and takes responsibility. Yeah, right? Opposite of blaming others. We look at a challenge. We look at a mistake and say, what could I have done differently? And how can I learn from this? But we own it. We don’t try to deflect. Even if it’s a sensitive situation there, where there might be people that are upset or frustrated with us, we still are brave and courageous and take responsibility. Five Ways to Develop a Growth Mindset So how do you develop a growth mindset? What do you do to develop a growth mindset? Well, there are five things that you can do. First, embrace who you are. Second, let go of perfectionism. Right? That means that things will always change. Third, redefine what success looks like for you. Fourth, set clear goals. And fifth, take action. So let’s go into those very quickly one by one. #1 – Embrace Who You Are What does it truly mean to embrace who you are? Well, embracing who you are means you understand your strengths as well as your opportunities. It can sometimes be thwarted when we compare ourselves to others, believing that someone else has got it figured out, but we don’t. But to truly be a resilient leader, we have to be able to find value in ourselves. I have some tips for doing that: Practice mindfulness, this could be a morning gratitude journal. This could even just be writing three things that you like about yourself. Practice mindfulness, get to know yourself. Build on your strengths. We are so conditioned to only focus on our weaknesses. Whereas our strengths might be a great way that we’re providing value for someone. So look into it, figure out if there are different ways that you could become better at something you’re already great at. And then just picture the impact that you can have. Positive Self-talk. If you’re truly going to embrace who you are, that’s when you need to speak positively to yourself. That’s right; the words that are going on in your brain directly impact the actions that you take and how you feel. And if you want to be a resilient leader, you need to make sure that you’re your own personal cheerleader. Focus on the win-win. When you’re making a negotiation, or you’re coming to the table to maybe have a conversation with someone, make sure that your viewpoint is represented, but also be respectful and allow someone to share theirs too. The win is when both you and the other person feel that their needs are met. Embracing who you are— that allows you by doing the win-win to say, it’s okay that I have these wants and desires. And it’s also okay that they do too. Now, how can we find a compromise? Stop seeking approval from others. To embrace who you are, you need to stop seeking approval from others. Now, I like to say that this is the difference between relying on external validation versus understanding how to internally validate. To say I believe in myself, I trust myself, and I’m worthy. If you want to get better at self-love or self-validation, you’ve got to start to say I can’t please everyone. Or strike a balance between doing what you can to make people happy, but also doing what you can for the benefit of yourself and your organization—knowing that even as leaders, we may not always get to have decisions or impacts that everyone loves. And that doesn’t mean that we’re getting it wrong. So you’ve got to embrace who you are. #2 – Let Go of Perfectionism Number two, to develop that growth mindset is to let go of perfectionism, right? That need to always be right. And I know that one is not easy, as someone that identifies as a recovering perfectionist. It can be really difficult because perfection itself, when we use that as a motivator earlier on in our careers or our educational lives, it can help empower us to do greater, to study harder to work longer. But then there’s a point—and it typically happens in our adult careers— where that perfectionism, that extra pressure actually creates a lot of stress, frustration, and overwhelm, which could end up causing us to leave a job that we actually love. So how do we let go of perfectionism? Find lessons in every mistake? Yes, that’s right. There’s an opportunity and a learning and every single mistake, no matter how bad he might feel about it, no matter what the consequences are, we can still find opportunities for growth. Also, remove yourself from the race. Remember, you are on your own individual career path, your own journey, whatever you’d like to call it. If you compare yourself to someone else, that’s a way that you’re going to diminish your confidence. And you’ll constantly continue to tell yourself I’m just not good enough. To be able to let go of perfection. That means we’re embracing our flaws. So we’re not comparing yourselves to other people. To embrace or to let go of perfectionism, is to embrace the gray area. Yes, we might have been told what’s right or wrong. What’s fair or unfair, but that’s not really the way that the world operates. So we have to learn to navigate in uncertainty and ambiguity and know that sometimes we’re not always going to have the answers. And another way to let go of perfectionism is to break projects into smaller tasks. Don’t expect yourself to figure out everything all at once. Baby steps. #3 – Redefine Success Tip number three to develop a growth mindset is to redefine success. Now, I’m talking about how you define success. Ask yourself,  what is your definition? Is success getting everything right all the time? Well, that’s still perfectionism. Think about what you’re using as a definition to guide how you look at success. That could typically be one of the biggest challenges or obstacles, disabling you from being resilient. You have to understand how you look at success. Maybe a definition of success is, Hey, every day, I learned something new, and I continuously improve myself. And that’s my definition of success. Instead of saying, I have to get something right all the time. Some tips to redefine success: Identify levels of success. What does good, better, best look like? Give yourself flexibility in how you understand it. Then you won’t be subject to that win-lose mentality that if you, in some way, have a misstep towards your goal, you throw in the towel and give up. Own Your attitude. To redefine success, you have to own your attitude. This means no more. Woe is me. Everything is happening to me, and it’s embracing the fact that I actually always have control. You as a thinking, breathing being are always the one that has control. You have choice. You can even leave a job if it’s really making you unhappy, and I encourage you to do so if you’re finding that it’s really not the right fit for you. But you have to own your attitude. It’s only on you that you can make changes to how you feel about something or how you approach a challenge. They can’t play the blame game, that doesn’t get us anywhere. Believe in the comeback. Yes, that’s right. So even if you have failed, even if you might’ve mishandled something, you’ve got to also have the belief that as long as you own your mistakes, that you can persevere and come back. If you don’t believe in the comeback, it’s hard to become a resilient leader because you’ll initially just be stunted by that. No. So you need to believe that things can change that optimism. That possibility is what’s going to fuel your energy and enthusiasm towards any specific goal and how to redefine success play the long game. Hey, there’s a reason that the expression short term pain long term gain is so popular. We get too used to wanting that initial short term validation or those quick results, but sometimes we might have to go through a little bit more pain or more planning. And then because of the investment that we’ve made in it, we’re able to yield a better result. And also if you’re ever looking at something, don’t initially say, well, I’m not there. It is. I am not there yet. As long as I’m continuing to grow, I know that I will get there. #4 – Set Clear Goals Number four is to set clear goals. If you don’t know what target you’re trying to pursue, how can you possibly know where to aim? You need to set your target to be able to be successful. Focus on one to three goals. Remember, you want to think smaller. It’s not about trying to do ten things that will be overwhelming, and we’ll be using our resources and spreading them among a variety of different things that may not yield us a big result. So focus on one to three goals and be specific and make sure that you prioritize those goals. Which one is the most important? What’s the next? And what’s the last, and how do they attribute to the bigger picture? And made sure while you’re doing that, identify your milestones. These are your check-in points to say, are we getting it right? How do we need to adjust? Is there a pivot necessary? Should we keep going? I know sometimes when it’s our idea, we can be so enthusiastic that we want to keep pushing it. Even though there might be red flags, but a resilient leader embraces the red flags and says, you know what? It’s not the best for the organization, the team, the leader themselves to keep going. We’ve got to readjust our sails. Choose your performance indicators. What are the things that are going to tell you whether or not you’re getting it right? Maybe you have to hit a certain sales number, or maybe you need to have a certain amount of people signing up for something. What are those key performance indicators? And last, if we’re thinking about setting clear goals, make sure that you set time constraints someday in the future, down the line, those are not fixed. And they’re not going to create a sense of urgency for you to be able to create action around. #5 – Take Action Which brings us to our last piece, the fifth step, to be able to develop that growth mindset is to take action. I know some of you might be saying, yeah, Jenn, it’s easier said than done, but take this one piece of advice. Action quiets anxiety. If you are anxious or nervous or not feeling confident about something that might be a great time to take action and know it doesn’t have to be a tremendous, huge step. It can be something small, but if we are risk-averse, one of the ways that we can develop confidence is just dipping our toe in the water. So how do we take action even when we’re not feeling ready to, or the circumstances might feel a little uncertain? Transform your fears, think, and ask yourself, am I making decisions out of a place of fear? Or am I making this business decision from a place of possibility? Then ask yourself, what’s the worst that can happen. I guarantee you that if you have enough self-validation or confidence in yourself, that the worst outcome is something that you could actually weather. And more often than not, the worst outcome doesn’t happen. We just tell ourselves it’s a possibility. So we typically plan around an event that isn’t likely to happen. But at the end of the day, sure things happen, and things can sometimes be bad, but you have to always ask yourself,  how much do I trust myself that if things go awry that I can figure it out? Do you trust yourself? Ask for help. If we’re thinking about taking action, one roadblock that we could hit is maybe we don’t have a particular skill, resource, time, or comfort level. This might be a great opportunity to either bring an employee in, learn from a colleague, and ask for help, stop putting the pressure on yourself, to have to figure it out. Remember, if we truly let go of perfectionism, then we don’t make ourselves or put that pressure on ourselves to own every single answer. Give yourself grace. Remember, energy flows where passion goes. Focus your attention on things that bring you joy, things that you can be excited about, and keep in mind the source of passion. We can find passion in what we do and how we do it and why we do it and who we do it for. Now. That’s from Mark Sandborn. One of Crestcom’s subject matter experts. I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s podcast episode of The Leadership Habit, talking all about how we can develop a growth mindset. Stay tuned next month as we cover the topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Thank you for listening. And if you’ve enjoyed, please write us a note and review and share with your friends on your favorite podcast, streaming service.   The post Minisode 9: Embrace a Growth Mindset to Strengthen Your Resilience with Jenn DeWall appeared first on Crestcom International.

Developing Resilience in Yourself and Your Team In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Heather Younger about building resilience. Heather is the bestselling author of The 7 Intuitive Laws of Employee Loyalty, and the founder and CEO of Customer Fanatix. Heather is an Employee Loyalty and Leadership Evangelist. In this episode, Jenn talks to her about how leaders can be more resilient, as well as how we can help others become more resilient in the face of adversity. Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall:  Hi everyone! We’re here on The Leadership Habit Podcast. This week, we are interviewing Heather Younger. Now, for those that don’t know Heather, she is an Employee Loyalty and Leadership Evangelist. Heather, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. I really appreciate having you! Heather Younger:  I’m excited to be here just sitting in the parking lot, and it’s, it’s like awkward. And I feel like I’ve just parked crazily and this lady has no choice, but to squish in. And I’m sorry, this is on the call now, but that’s what’s happening. I’m excited. Jenn DeWall:  Hey, that’s real life. I’m sure many leaders can believe that we sometimes have to do things, whether it’s in our car, whether it’s in our office, we just have to get it done. I mean, that’s commitment. That’s passion. That, you know, and we’re going to be talking about resilience today and how we can be more resilient, which is obviously so important. Given the climate with the pandemic, given the impact of the protests here in the U.S., We’re talking about resilience, how to build a workforce that can overcome adversity to hopefully achieve your strategic goals and just help your organization. Bri. So Heather, for those that haven’t met you yet, please just tell, tell our listeners a little bit about you. Creating a Listening Culture Heather Younger:  So, I run an organization called Customer Fanatix. We focus on helping organizations create a better listening culture for their employees. And that focus ends up being on, you know, helping them with employee culture teams and employee resource groups and things like that in employee communication. And, and then I also am a keynote speaker and author on loyalty and leadership. And then I’m a podcast host too on leadership. Leadership with heart specifically. So I do a lot of things, and then I have four kiddos— FOUR kiddos. So it’s interesting. Jenn DeWall:  Yeah, yes, that is a busy life, but I love it. You have to be probably the favorite person that comes into an organization because every employee I’m guessing would love to love their job, love their organization. And you’re the one that actually helps organizations create a better culture or a place for people to work. So they’ve got to love you. Heather Younger:  And I think that that they love me. I love them. And when the feeling is mutual, I think we get a lot more done together. I feel blessed that way. Overcoming Adversity to Build Resilience Jenn DeWall: Good. Well, we’re going to be talking about resilience. I know for those that don’t know, Heather, Heather actually did a TEDx talk all about how we can overcome adversity, and that’s really going to be our focus for this podcast episode is how we can build a stronger workforce. How can, what do they do? So even right now, I know that the perfect starting point is how are you seeing organizations need to adapt given the pandemic and the, I guess, unforeseen consequences that have happened as a result of the pandemic? Heather Younger: I mean, I think, I think the biggest thing is it’s listening. What often happens with leaders is especially in an executive-level leader. But even the mid-level leader, they are thinking they have to solve problems by themselves, and they feel like they kind of have to do it alone. They have to stay strong. And, and so I think at this moment, I think what’s needed most is to show you a level of vulnerability and strength combined. So compassion, vulnerability, and strength, all balanced out. It’s kind of the most critical thing that leaders need to focus on. As far as building, you know, building resilience inside of their team, you cannot give what you do not have. And so you have to assess whether you are resilient first. Because if not, there’s no way for you to help others do that. And so that would be the first thing— to assess where you are as a leader. And do you feel like you are kind of adaptable to change and more open to the possibilities of what things could be and what they could look like in order to be able to pivot right now? Jenn DeWall: Gosh, I love that expression. I’ve never heard that before, but it makes total sense. You cannot give what you do not have. So if you think that you can just create a resilient team, but you’re inside, maybe, you know, freaking out you’re nervous, or you’re just not feeling confident, then how are you going to be able to inspire people to buckle up, hold on and still stay committed? Heather Younger: Yes, but I want to be clear that, you know, for those who are listening, that all of those emotions you just mentioned are 100% natural, and I don’t expect anybody not to have those emotions. So we that’s part of building resilience, first recognizing how we currently feel. So there’s this level of emotional intelligence or self-awareness about how we feel in our shoes, given our circumstances. And then it’s deciding, you know, from there now I feel these how long I’m gonna allow myself to fill this, what am I going to stop myself from feeling this? And, and then what, how do I get myself out of the place where I’m feeling this, or at least minimizing it so I can move forward. So that’s kind of the, I just want to make sure I put that as a foundation. I don’t expect you to be non-human or don’t show emotion or have, cause that would be just silly of me. Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. You know the one thing that I love about this pandemic, I’m sorry. I know that’s probably a weird thing to say. You love it, but I do feel like it’s brought this unique opportunity for us to finally be real, to recognize that we all have this shared experience, and you can’t hide and pretend that emotions don’t exist anymore. The pandemic is showing you that people are afraid. They’re nervous for their jobs. They’re nervous for their families. Emotions are there. You can’t just avoid them and say, well, this sucks and kind of seems awkward. So let’s just focus on this Monday morning meeting because it’s a part of it now. Heather Younger: It is, exactly. Resilience Requires Vulnerability Jenn DeWall: And I think, you know, you talked about vulnerability and strength, you know, what does vulnerability look like as a resilient leader? What does that look like? Heather Younger: Well, I think vulnerability looks like what vulnerability looked like all the time, which is, you know, being open about kind of where you might stand. It may not be a hundred percent open. So I, you know, it’s not like you’re just going to stand and sit there with your team members and just start to break out into tears and start to go like crazy and nuts. All the things that you’re feeling inside, not every bit of that needs to be released, but some of that does, number one, you will gain more respect and trust and loyalty from those people right now, in this moment, when you show them that you need them and that you cannot do this alone. And at the same time, you will also get that same loyalty by showing in spite of those things, that there’s a level of strength that you’re exhibiting and that you want to be there to help them to, to get through it. Jenn DeWall: Why do you think people kind of avoid resilience? I mean, I know we talked about the discomfort that might come with emotions, but is it, is it just not being aware? Why do you think that people don’t make it a priority to think, let’s create an empower and develop a resilient team? Because I think people talk about a more agile team. They talk about a team that can communicate or project manage, but they don’t necessarily bring up resilience as the top thing. Why does it matter? Heather Younger: Well, I mean, resilience, number one, is kind of like the ability to be tough when, when hard things come our way, it’s the ability to have the ability to bounce back when something happens. And so here’s the thing to be thinking about. And this really is going to turn this idea of adversity on its head and resilience. If you want to be more resilient, so tougher when things hit, come up, come your way. You have to be actually searching out adversity and challenge. Okay. So let’s just say that again. You actually have to look for challenges, change, and adversity. You have to look for it in order to become resilient because you can’t be resilient unless you have adversity. So what are you going to be tough against if there’s nothing to be nothing adverse in your way. Right. Okay. Okay. So we all know in business, and in life, things keep happening to us, and it’s how much we’re able to kind of repel those things, you know, bounce those things right off of us and keep moving forward. That makes all the difference. So when we look at teams, leadership teams, and the leaders that are obviously looking for those leaders to guide them and to help them move forward. That leader first has to be able to continue to move forward. So they have to say, I see this adversity coming, this adversity just hit us. I’m feeling these emotions; the emotions are there. Okay. I have to keep moving, or I may stop for just a second, but I have to keep moving after that. So that leader has to first do that. But then after that leader is able to do that. They have to help their people do what I call re-framing. And I don’t really call it that. I just stole that from psychologists who say that, right? And it’s basically the team members who are wallowing in their victim-hood or wallowing in their fear or whatever’s happening. Because we all have these and we all get there. You help them get out of it. But wait a second. This is the one good thing that’s actually coming from it. We’ve become closer. We understand each other more. Our communication has been polished. Those are one of the ways that a leader can help their people through kind of tough times. And it’s extremely important because if they don’t bounce back, your business, take a deep dive, and it could go under. Re-Framing the Situation Jenn DeWall: So the mindset or the re-frame, what does re-framing look like in the face of adversity? So the challenge is right there in front of you. Holy cow, we have to let’s say downsize because that is going to be one of the ones that I think people are experiencing right now as a result of just the economic impact of the pandemic. How do you re-frame when you feel like it, your whole business is about to change? Heather Younger: There are so many different angles because I, of course, I consult organizations on employee experience, whether it’s via, you know, now during COVID, or racial unrest, or whether it’s not – assuming we’re in good times, right? And so as I hear you say that like the layoffs, obviously layoffs and furloughs – those are all kind of a necessary evil in many of these things. But, but the other thing to think about kind of a sidetrack issue is making sure that we care for those who have been furloughed or laid off. Make sure we care for those who remain behind. So part of that, like let’s say the furloughs or layoffs are happening knowing that your team members, many of them will actually go through a grieving period, a loss that’s happening as a result of the layoffs, the furloughs. And there’s also guilt that takes place because if they remain behind, that means they kept their jobs. And so now there’s a guilt that’s there. So there’s a level of understanding where your people are sitting. So you, but you can’t know that unless you know you, so you have to be self-aware as a leader, then you become more socially aware, more socially intelligent by understanding what’s happened with your people. And then you help them live in their shoes, in the circumstances, but then helping them become more adaptable, going deeper into kind of the emotional intelligence framework to say, okay, how do I adapt to these feelings that I’m having? Well, how do I put them aside for the benefit of myself, my family, and our team and the organization? So that’s where you’re you, you want to make that, make sure that that happens. But I think the key is showing them the sunny shot, the brighter side of things. When you look at re-framing, it’s recognizing the emotions that we have. And recognizing, being self-aware of how I’m feeling, and then helping basically for them to saying, am I going to take these emotions and let them stop me? Or am I going to do something about it? Am I going to use these emotions as my “why” for moving forward? And once you make that decision and hopefully it’s the latter, that it’s the “why” for moving forward. Then what you do, I think the key is to be really intentional. So it’s to say, okay, what are the things that are blocking me right now from moving forward? And as an organization, as a leadership team, what is it that’s blocking us from moving forward? What’s got us stuck right now and uncover what those are. And in many cases, I mean, writing it out. In many cases, they’re irrational things. And we start to go down this rabbit hole of like negativity and thoughts that, of what could happen, could happen, could happen that are all negative. And what we do is we do that exercise and then we kind of flip them on its head and each one of those they go through and go, okay, what was the learning from this? What’s the bright side of this? Just like you said, Jenn, earlier- I hate to say the word love when it comes to the pandemic. Knowing, of course, we’ve lost a lot of lives, but there’s, there are some silver linings here, and that’s the leader’s role, the first to do it for yourself, and then to help your people see the silver linings and then to make them get in stock, how do I then move forward? What are the next plans that we do to move forward? So yeah, that’s kind of the process. I do a lot of these workshops. I really enjoy them, you know, helping teams work through it, helping individuals work through blocks that are happening and making them get stuck Jenn DeWall: Well, and I think you touched on one of the pieces that I feel like can often be a blind spot for organizations. They are so focused on the budget and what they have to do to get back on track with their financial metrics or, you know, they’re spending whatever that is. And so they make the layoffs, and they might even put in some nice packages for the people that are going to be departing. And they think about maybe even sourcing people that can help them find jobs or, you know, coaching. I feel like that’s popular for the packages. But yet we don’t necessarily look inside to say what work needs to be done to make sure that the people, as you said, like the ones that are left behind can still function because they are emotional. And I love that you touched on just that feeling of guilt, because I know I’ve never had that, but I know myself as a person. And I know naturally if I was at a company and kept my job, I would feel a tremendous amount of guilt. I have guilt with like being successful just in general, because I feel like if my family doesn’t have it, then that’s not fair. So I can’t believe that even, you know, going into the workforce to not have that emotion and that we have to recognize that it is complicated. Heather Younger: A big part of this is learning how to put one foot in front of the other. So, you know, learning the forward movement is what helps, is another thing that’s helping to build resilience. So it’s, you know, changing our minds helps us change our behaviors, and the behaviors are always going to be forward-thinking and forward-moving. So I think that’s kind of critical, and yeah like I said, I started, I went off that track because I do have multiple, we all are complex beings, and I have multiple sides of me. And I think of everything as far as in regards to employee experience and journeys and people, and most organizations aren’t thinking that way, but that’s why they hire me because I help them, which I have to look at all sides of the human experience when I’m looking at employee experience and helping them hopefully training them to start looking more at those things as well, you know, Jenn DeWall: So when you think about, you talked about forward-thinking behaviors, what are forward-thinking behaviors? What does that look like? Resilience Means Starting Again Heather Younger: Well, I mean, for me, I can give you kind of experience. So last year, some years ago- and I’d say this in my Ted talk, but some years ago I was laid off from a position. Actually, this was not a layoff. This one was more of— this is the law thing. So I have a law background, I’m a lawyer. I just don’t practice anymore. And it was mutually agreed, but initiated by my employer, that I was no longer a good fit for them, and not just for the organization. But they really suggested that law was not for me. And it was because I was really good at marketing. I was really good at bringing clients in. But I just didn’t want to do anything with them when I got them really. Like, I didn’t want all the detailed stuff. I just wanted the relationships and people that know me to know that’s exactly me. Like I have to give everything away, that’s detailed. Except for the employee engagement surveys, it’s funny. It’s the only area of detail I’ll handle because I like to look at all the details of the employee comments. But anyway, so I’m in that position, that happened. And I mean, it hits me hard. Because I had worked my whole life. I thought since I was 10 years old, I was going to be a lawyer. And yeah, I went to law school, I passed the bar, I go practice. And I’m like, this is so not for me. And it was just a hard hit when she— when they were like, I don’t think this is going to work, and really should you even be doing this work? And like, okay, maybe you’re probably right. But it took me a while to, you know, not like too long, but it took me a while to go, okay, are they right? What’s happening? But I immediately just pivoted and said, well, you know, but they did say this- and they were right. I mean, the thing that they’re right about is that I am a people person. I am relational. I can bring the business in. And so I pivoted into a role that was more of a sales relationship, building leaders type of role after that. And it was because I did it quickly. And so it was like moving forward instead of just sitting, it wasn’t like months later that I got a clue, it was like two weeks later, I got a clue. And so part of that is based upon that background, in my backstory of having a lot of adversity as a child, some of it I did not even disclose in that Ted talk that actually would propel it, it would raise that level up even more. But just that, that struggle of having to be an outsider in my own family and having racism in my own family was a big thing I had to overcome as a child early on and often. Jenn DeWall: Share your story, share your story. We want to hear, tell our listeners your story. Heather Younger: So my mom is white and Jewish. My dad is black and Christian, and my mom comes from an Orthodox Jewish background, and they were not at all happy about this union. They were like, wait a second. You’re supposed to marry a nice Jewish boy, and that did not happen. And then I came out of it. And while they loved me, I had- there was lots of love. There, there was a lot of shame there on their part. And so it created a need. They didn’t want to have me go to family gatherings. So I could never go to like any kind of large public events, any kind of events, where there was anybody outside the immediate family that would see me there. In fact, I didn’t even go to a large family gathering until it was my grandmother’s funeral, the person that kept me out of the family. I was 36 years old when I finally went to that event. So I am going through that type of life where I always feel like I almost just be like guilty of who I am, and who I’m not. And I feel like I’m not good enough. And I had to get to the point where I was like, listen, in order to be, you know, to have a voice, to feel important in my own home, I have to learn to use my voice. I have to learn to articulate. I have to learn to think a certain way, and quickly on my feet. I have to be relational with people. And so all of those things that developed the person I am today. And so my high-level empathy and relate-ability come from the fact that I didn’t feel like I was being empathized with. I didn’t feel like people were listening to me, and they didn’t care about me as a child in that way. So now, I set out in my life to do the exact opposite and help organizational leaders listen more effectively and to care for those they lead. So it’s just, I turned that adversity right on its head and said, okay, well, you know, they’re going to do what they’re going to do. I don’t hate them. I don’t have bad feelings against them. They chose, they made their choices. I’m making mine. And I’m hoping to show other leaders how they can also make better choices. So that’s it, that’s it, the story. And so moving forward from that, right? Every time I get hit and I get this feeling of not being good enough, which has happened multiple times in my life with like, you know, Nos, we all get Nos, but every single one of us gets Nos. But when I get a No, it triggers other things, right. There are other things that happen to me. Because a No to me is like, okay, is this about me personally? Like, am I not good enough? And so that’s what happens, boom. It goes, Jenn DeWall: What do you do? Okay. What do you do? Like how do you do that? Because that is the hard thing. I think for people like you can be self-aware, but then it’s, it’s so easy to jump on the train that’s like, you’re not good enough. You goofed up on this report. You were late for this. Someone gave you bad feedback. How the heck do you jump off the bad feedback train? Using Visualization to Build Resilience Heather Younger: So I think I just like everybody else, I’m human. And so I don’t have any kind of shield that completely protects me from that. It happens to me the same way, except here’s the difference between— it happens to me. I don’t let it seep into my pores as much as I used to. And I also know when there’s a cutoff. So I kind of visualize, I try to tell people this, and it’s hard. There are two things I visualize. So visualization is very big for me. One is I visualize a switch in my head. There’s a switch in my head that I choose to turn on and off. So wallow, wallow, wallow, victim, victim, victim. Then boom, turn it off— like time to be done. Turn it off. That’s one thing I do. The second thing I do is I visualize almost like if you think about the donuts that we go swimming in, there’s like that little donut, the thing that floats the floaty. And I visualize like one of those around me and every time something adverse or that feeling of like, I visualize it being bounced off so that it’s not, it’s not seeping into who I am. It’s not seething into my pores. Because I think that’s a big thing of what happens with most of us with adversity, with the challenges, with the negative feedback, with all that is that it just, it becomes us. And we get stuck in it. So my ways of getting around it were these kinds of tools of like, okay, visualization for myself to say, okay, yep. That hurt. Yep. I’m not saying it doesn’t keep happening. It happens a lot. I am just intentional. It happens a lot. I wouldn’t say every day, but it’s like, I’ll have a client conversation, and I’m thinking I’m negotiating. And I think it’s going to land one way and then it doesn’t. And then I’m like, Oh, I had to have done this or that. Maybe they found a better person, maybe. And I just, I do that. And it happens. I do it, and maybe I cycle on it for maybe less than 24 hours. So it’s like a 24-hour thing. I may sit in it for about 20 minutes, and then I’m like, okay, next that’s the other thing I do a long time ago after I quit the practice of law, I went to work for this company called Mary Kay cosmetics. And which is funny. I went to like a practice, from practicing law to toting cosmetics, but it was the best decision I ever made because their level of training and Oh man, it was where I found another one of my people- Jenn DeWall: Wait! There’s adversity there because you had to do the switch. And that’s something that I think a lot of people are afraid of. Like, Holy cow, I’m going into a completely new company. Didn’t mean to cut you off. But like the basic way that you like, again, flip the script, said, this is, I’m not going to be kept in a box. And I’m like, wow, like it’s not my jam right now. I’m going to find something else. Okay. Continue on with what you were saying about Mary Kay. When They Say No, You Say Next Heather Younger: I think the key would be – that what you just said too is, you know, we, too many of us seek perfection, stop it. Stop seeking perfection. That’s the reason why my pivoting is allowed. I’m allowed to pivot because I don’t seek perfection. I seek to be my best self, which I know is not a perfect self. And so that’s exactly how I coach people. That’s exactly what I talk about my training. As I’m talking about in my speeches, it’s not about perfection. It’s about seeking to continually and continuously improve. And so I do that. I’m always trying to get better. And what I know I’m never going to get better at, I just delegate it. I’ll be honest. That’s just how I roll. Now. I do have to say, this is an insightful thing from my perspective, is that there are people like, I would not want my doctor to have my same perspective. They need to seek perfection. Because I don’t want them cutting me in the wrong place. I want our pilot to have perfection as a focus. Because I don’t want them crashing my plane. Right. So there are certain professions- if it’s a life or death situation- that they better be seeking perfection, right. May not be perfect, but they need to be seeking it. I think most everyone else, though, should not be seeking it. And that’s where we get stuck. That’s the stuck part. These are all kinds of triggers of stuckness. So with Mary Kay, once there was one lady is there. So I think she still works there and she made it the top of the organization, African-American lady. And she would say, you know, when, when they say no, you say next. When they say no, you say next. So it’s a rhythm. It’s literally just like that. And so my whole life, I mean this is 25 years later. I still think that, when I get a no, I’m like next. Or when I’m sensing, someone’s kind of iffy with me when I’m in a negotiation; I just go “next.” And then if they come back to me, which by the way has happened, then I’m like, Oh great. Well, like I’m pleasantly surprised, but I don’t allow myself to be associated with their iffy. Whichever that might be for them. Jenn DeWall: I love that because there’s a big piece where I think when the, you know, when they say, no, you say next, I think your approach, because it’s so much on the mind hat, mindset and behavior. I love that. You just allow people to depersonalize like too often in the workplace. We personalize. Personalization— it’s personalization, and you’ve given a few techniques. Obviously, mindset is one way to do it. And then also acknowledging like how, like that we have a choice, like how long do we want to stay here? And then how do I want to respond? But, or, and then you gave them an option. Like when they say, no, you say next, but I think oftentimes people just look at rejection and it’s so debilitating. Or even just why someone might be might’ve been rude or why your idea wasn’t heard or why you didn’t get promoted. Those aren’t necessarily all about you. Heather Younger: Yeah. And it’s not all bad because here’s the thing. I remember one time going, submitting a proposal. I took time off to submit a proposal to a leadership team in this organization. And I had already kind of proven out that I could be in this particular role I was trying to do, but they chose not to move me forward. So, fast forward a couple of years later, I leave the organization to work in a place that allows me to be in that kind of role that I was proposing for them. But I thought out the thing I needed, and I waited until the time is right and I did it. But then, like shortly after I left, I found out they actually did create that position and filled it with someone who was the exact opposite of me. And so it was like, ouch. But, but then again, it was like, Oh, well, because I had already now met the place where I was supposed to be. I had already landed in the spot that I was supposed to be. And so you know, I think that’s the key that all these things that you just made, that list of things of like, you know, I didn’t get the promotion or whatever it is there’s always going to be a silver lining. I would just, I would welcome everybody to seek it out, to be looking for it actively. Developing a Resilience Mindset Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And I, again, I saw this shirt, and it was at the dog park, but this guy had a shirt. I’m guessing he was an entrepreneur, but his shirt said, “I eat no’s for breakfast.” And I feel like that is kind of the mentality that we have to have. Like it’s okay. You’ve got to, you know, because you brought this up in the beginning, we have to make sure that we are actually seeking a challenge. If we want to grow, especially in this, this new pandemic land where our business strategies have likely had to, we’ve had to pivot or change, or we may have less staff. Like we really need to think about how can we welcome the challenge? How can we welcome the adversity? And then what’s the opportunity to re-frame. And these are all things that you had said. And then, how did we focus on forward-thinking behaviors? Like what’s going to get us to this new, I hear the expression “new normal,” but just the new way that we need to evolve our business to be, to still operate, to still hopefully be sustainable and so on and so forth. Heather, there are a few other questions like that I want to ask before, but what would you give, what advice would you give for people right now that are really struggling? They’re kind of still living in the stuff. I mean, you’ve talked about a lot of tips, but if you just had to speak from your heart, like what would you say to people that are feeling really stuck? Start. Move. Shift. Heather Younger: Start. Move. Shift. That what I would say. That there’s nothing better than when you’re sitting around. And you’re like- let’s use weight as a thing, like being in shape, right? We say, ah, my waistline is this and my, I can’t fit in these pants. And Oh, this, this suit jacket is not fitting because much whatever this is. That’s what we do that when it comes to weight. And instead of just continuing to talk about it, put down the cookie. Walk to your basement exercise area or walk to wherever you go to exercise and start. And so I think the key is that today there’s no better time than right now today, this exact minute for you to commit, to making a change, to shifting out of the stuck place. Don’t look back at what you didn’t do this last two months, commit to thinking about what’s happening to us right now today. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. So think about what you know, think about the type of leader that you want to be both in your personal life. So whether that’s goals about health or fitness, but in your professional life, Hey, if you’ve been struggling for the past few months, you feel like all these changes have kind of like thrown you to the ground. Like you’ve got to pick yourself up. It’s I love that you had said start, move, and shift. You just got to do. And you said this earlier, just one step at a time, like one foot in front of another, all you have to do is start right now. I love that. That’s an empowering message to even wrap up a podcast with, because I think sometimes we, in a podcast, we talked so much about, you know, a lot of ideas or just different like techniques of doing something. But sometimes we just need to hear the message like, yo, it’s on you – you just gotta start. Heather Younger: It really is. It’s become more of my— when you talk about new normal for me, I would say this happened way before COVID I would say maybe in the last couple of years, but that message of that it’s you choose. You choose, you choose what you think. You choose how you interact. You choose how you make people feel. You choose, you choose everything. There’s so much. It’s actually so much we can control and influence. And once you kind of write a list or whatever, those are like the whole list of everything I can influence the whole list of everything I can control. It starts to get you excited. You’re like, wow, I actually could do a lot more than I thought What is Your Leadership Habit for Success? Jenn DeWall: You are choosing to see that you can. The choice is priceless. The fact that you even have a choice is a gift. And we, I think, forget that all the time, because we’re subconsciously choosing an emotion or behavior, that’s just not serving us. So I’m going to wrap up with our last question. And this is the question we close all of our podcasts with, which is what is your leadership habit for success? What do you do, Heather, to stay on your game, to keep your head strong, to serve your clients? What do you do? Heather Younger: I would say I get up fairly early, and I do work out. I just work out in my basement, and I always do that before I, I never did like a gym. So I would say like, for me, the physical is a thing that opens up my mental and my emotional. So I think that works for most people. I mean, even if you go look at a lot of successful people, you’ll either see that they may start with meditation and then they go work out. But that kind of early morning routine is what starts me off. When I don’t do it, which is a rarity, then I find myself going off track, and I can go down that rabbit hole a lot more. So I would say that is the kind of get moving and get moving in a general sense. Right. Get moving physically, but you know, just get moving start. Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be a grandiose action. Remember, it could be a five-minute walk, or it could just be an email, or it could be putting together your strategy for the next big idea that you want to propose to someone. All you have to do is just put pen to paper, put your shoes on, and get going. I love that. Wake up early, seize the day, maximize your time, Heather, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. It was so great to talk to you, and I hope that we can have you on again soon to just talk about things that, you know, I want to talk about it as much as I want to talk about. I just think it’s great, but so maybe we’ll get to have you again sometime down the line to talk about that, but thank you so much and yes. Have a great day. Heather Younger: Thank you. It’s been wonderful. You’re wonderful. Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, featuring employee loyalty and leadership evangelist, Heather Younger. If you want to connect with Heather, maybe book one of her trainings, purchase her book, or just find one of the many resources that she has on her site. Head over to customerfanatix.com, and that’s Fanatix with an X. Or even find the link in our show notes. If you enjoyed today’s episode of The Leadership Habits podcast, don’t forget to rate and review us on your favorite podcast streaming service. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Until next time. The post Episode 33: Developing Resilience in Yourself and Your Team with Employee Loyalty and Leadership Expert Heather Younger appeared first on Crestcom International.

In this special minisode, The Leadership Habit host, Jenn DeWall, shares her top 7 tips to build a more resilient team. In the face of the unforeseen challenges with COVID-19 and the economic fallout from the pandemic, it is more important than ever to foster resilience in yourself and others. Full Transcript Below   7 Ways to Build a More Resilient Team with Jenn DeWall Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit podcast, we are going to be talking about how to build a resilient team. We know that resilience is essential to compete in the landscape that we’re operating in right now, the pandemic, social unrest, the economy. So many things are causing us to think and ask ourselves, how are we going to manage this? That’s where it’s essential to have that resilient mindset. Your leaders, your staff, your organization needs to be able to say, “we can get through this.” Yes, it may not be what we planned. Sure. We may not even have any experience in how to deal with this, but we will persevere. So what is resilience? Resilience is a person’s capacity to respond to the pressure and demands of daily life. So essentially, it’s your ability to manage what’s thrown at you, and we need to step up and take ownership over how we respond to what’s thrown at us. This is our emotional intelligence because right now, we can’t choose the game. We can’t choose the rules. We can only choose how we play. So here we go! Here is how to create a more resilient team, seven things that you can do. #1 – Start with the “Why” The first thing that you can do to build a more resilient team. This is all about choosing how we play. We want to make sure that our people have exactly what they need and the environment that supports them to be successful, despite the challenging circumstances. So seven ways to build a more resilient team. Number one, start with “why.” You want to inspire a vision, okay? Help your team. Even yourself, think bigger. Connect them to why what they do is so essential to being able to weather this current challenge, too, deliver on these strategies and goals. You want to connect people with it. The more connected that people feel to what they’re doing, the more passion will flow through them and give them more energy, more creativity to solve our challenges. It creates more innovation. We have to start with the why, if we don’t know why we’re doing something, then we may not place the same level of priority or importance on it. And so we may not get that desired result. We’ve got to start with the “why.” So how, how can you do that? As a leader, you can start by sharing the big picture, bring people in on the vision, your vision. Shouldn’t be something that’s just locked in a, in a meeting that other people are excluded from. Make sure to get everyone on board with it. Also, simplify the desired actions that you want people to take. Make sure they understand. What’s expected of them. Try to reduce as much ambiguity or uncertainty as possible. #2 – Walk the Walk Number two, and how to build a more resilient team, is to walk the walk. If you are not modeling the behavior that you want others to exhibit, you cannot expect them to do the same. Your employees— they’re going to catch on. If you’re maybe not confident, or if you’re feeling like your team or organization, isn’t going to find success or have the ability to navigate through the crisis. No one is going to have the confidence to believe that they can do it, or that their efforts will actually go towards anything. So you’ve got to walk the walk. If you want to have a resilient team, you’ve got to start by modeling that behavior and don’t expect your employees to do something that you wouldn’t be willing to do. From one of Crestcom’s classes, DWYSYWD, do what you say you will do. Make sure that if you make a commitment that you follow through on it. If you continue to make empty promises or you don’t have that follow-through, you, as a leader, are going to lose trust, which will then crumble. And that’s an essential thing that you need for resiliency. You need people to be able to trust each other and trust the team that everyone’s going to come together. #3 Re-Framing Number three, re-frame your problems as opportunities we keep. We can all simply look at the problem and say, what was me? This problem is happening, and I can’t believe we’re there. Or we can look at it as an opportunity. What do we have to, what can we stand to gain? How can we adjust our processes to stay relevant? You can think about this through the expression of frame-storming. Think about different ways to frame the problem that maybe can be more empowering and motivating and help you see different solutions. Re-framing your problems also requires you to break down the challenges. You don’t have to look at the challenges as one big thing, try to break it down into small micro-segments. So then it’s more manageable, and it’s easier for people to get behind. Also, ask yourself— when we’re in the problems, when we’re in our challenges, constantly ask ourselves for feedback. What did we learn? How are we going to do things differently? How can we prepare? Should anything like this ever happen again in the future? And also brainstorm bad ideas, think about things that maybe couldn’t work, because then at least you can get those out of the way. And maybe you’ll even be led to solutions that could work. #4 Create a Safe Environment How to build a resilient team, number four is to create a safe environment. People want to feel psychologically safe. Now that can mean feeling safe, knowing that they’re going into an organization that is taking safety precautions to keep them safe from the virus. But it also is going into an organization knowing that we’re free from discrimination, that we’re free from racism, we’re free from judgment. That we’re free to also be able to make mistakes without an overarching negative penalty. Now, of course, some things are going to yield penalties. I’m not saying that we have to take those out, but we do need to make sure that we’re not creating a culture where people are afraid because the more that people are afraid, the less likely they’ll connect with each other. So relationships will be strained, or teams won’t be as strong together, and the more that they’ll actually just become nervous about doing anything. So they won’t want to take risks, and you might need risks right now, as we’re trying to think about more innovative solutions to manage and overcome the challenges of today. #5 Develop Others Number five, how you can build a resilient team is to develop others. I know it’s easy sometimes to think that we don’t have enough time. Or we might think someone else knows it, but check-in, because the more that we diversify and spread and share the knowledge throughout our organization, the more agile, the more competent and confident our organization will be at solving challenges. So we need to make development a priority, especially now when we’re likely facing any type of adversity. That’s when we might think we don’t have the time to do it, but this is when you actually really need to. You want to make sure that everyone feels fully capable and confident to be able to approach that challenge or work with less resources and find a solution that’s going to work. So how can you do this? How can you develop others? Well, create a team strengths list, think about opportunities to cross-train each other. So someone is good at one skill, like communication or pitching proposals. And another person is great at trying to mitigate or manage a process efficiency, cross-train them. Help them look at those solutions and learn from each other and designate development time. Make sure that even though I know we’re busy, I know we might not feel like we have a lot of time, try and offer one to two hours a week to your staff, to just focus on their development. The more developed they are, the more they’ll be able to handle these challenges and think bigger to yield a better solution. #6 Provide Ownership Number six, how to build a resilient team, provide ownership. People want to feel again. They want to have meaning for what they do. They want to know that their efforts, their energy, their problem solving, it’s all for a purpose. Give people the opportunity to show you what they’re capable of. Now, this is going to require you to delegate, make sure that you’re not just hogging everything to yourself. And sometimes we do that because we’re guided by maybe perfectionism or just the belief that someone can’t do it as great as I can. But the more that you do that for yourself as a leader, the less time you’re actually going to be able to have to focus on things that are going to help you develop. So give people the opportunities to continue to grow themselves, provide ownership. #7 Offer Intentional Feedback And number seven, offer intentional feedback, be clear on the needed change that you want. Be clear on the behavior. It’s all about providing the facts here. Don’t just avoid feedback because it makes you uncomfortable, or you think it might make that person uncomfortable. Be aware of how that feedback could potentially benefit them. The team, the organization, assume positive intent. People really want to feel like they’re working towards something greater than themselves. And they also want to be valued. They want to make an impact. And feedback is one of the ways that you can ensure that they’re receiving feedback that they’ll feel proud about. I hope you enjoy this week’s minisode or this episode of leadership habit on how to build a resilient team. Join us for the rest of this month’s episodes, as we’ll be covering more resiliency topics.   The post Minisode 8: Seven Ways to Build a More Resilient Team with Jenn DeWall appeared first on Crestcom International.