Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

TEAM Trauma Treatment-- How Does It Work? And Why?  Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt Today's podcast features one of our favorite guests, Dr. Jill Levitt, who is one of the greatest psychology teachers on planet earth. We explore trauma, and how it is treated. We focus in particular on the unique features of trauma treatment using TEAM CBT. Jill is currently the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, but she has had intensive training in trauma treatment beginning during her psychology internship at the Cornell Medical Center (? is this correct) in 200? (dates please Jill) and continuing until (date please.) She worked with adults survivors of childhood physical and sexual abuse, as well as victims of the 2011 tragedy at the world trade center, which happened when she was working in New York. She got extra training from several outstanding experts in the treatment of trauma and anxiety, including the renown Dr. Edna Foa, from Temple University in Philadelphia, as well as (please list if you like, Jill!) Rhonda also has extensive experience in the treatment of trauma since she worked for (x years, please fill in) at th San Francisco Rape and Trauma Clinical. Rhonda emphasized the importance of shame and toxic but high irrational self-blame so often seen in trauma patients of all ages, including, of course, children. Jill and Rhonda emphasized the importance of the selective use of exposure techniques with trauma patients, and the unfortunate fear that many, and perhaps most, therapists have of these techniques, wrongly fearing that the patient will decompensate and that the therapist, too, will become overwhelmed when hearing the patient recount their horrific experiences in detail. I, David, will add that I've never had a negative experience with the use of exposure techniques, like cognitive flooding, memory rescripting, and many more with any trauma patients. However, I always do E = Empathy first, as well as A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, to guarantee that the patient and I will be working together as a collaborative team. Rhonda asked us to talk a bit about "vicarious trauma" that the therapist might experience when working with trauma patients. Both Jill and David said they've never experienced this, and that only our thoughts, and not the experiences our patients describe, can upset us. We believe the concept of "vicarious trauma" is highly (but not intentionally) misleading and needlessly frightening to those working with trauma patients. Of course, if a therapist does become triggered when working with any patient, including a trauma patient, that is grist for the mill for the therapist to work out with their own therapist, using perhaps the Daily Mood Log to explore and challenge the therapist's upsetting negative thoughts. Perhaps the most important theme today focused on the treatment of trauma patients--as well as non-trauma patients--individually, using TEAM to pinpoint one moment the patient was upset, and exploring their negative thoughts and feelings with the help of the Daily Mood Log, as well as the other vitally important components of T E A M. I (David) do not place much stock in treating patients with "formulas" based on their "diagnosis" or problem. I did 20 or more two day trauma workshops around the US and Canada several years back, and treated a volunteer from the audience at each workshop on the evening of day 1, using a two-hour TEAM CBT session. In all or nearly all of these sessions, the individuals experienced a triumphant and blow-away elimination of all their negative feelings by the end of the demonstration. But here's the interesting thing: although I occasionally included cognitive exposure, it was perhaps the technique I used the least often with these individuals. Far more powerful for most were techniques like Explain the Distortions, the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices. Sometime, an interpersonal technique, including the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, was helpful, even life-changing. If you are interested, you can read about those sessions in Chapter X in my most recent book, Feeling Great, as well as illustrations of the data from all the patients, showing the dramatic changes in negative and positive feelings from the start to the end of the sessions. Why did these individuals recover so dramatically and quickly--within a single session? I believe it was because I focused on what was upsetting THEM, and developing an agenda and selecting methods to focus on what they wanted. This, to my way of thinking, is different, even radically different, from imposing a pre-set agenda on patients simply because we think they have some type of trauma diagnosis. David described the three elements of an "abuse contract" between the abuser and the victim: I get to hurt or exploit you for my own pleasure. The Blame will be 100% on you. I am a blameless, superior god. We must keep this as a secret, even between us. If you violate this, I will hurt you very badly. Thanks for listening today! Jill, Rhonda, and David

Procrastination: Be Gone! And "Physician, Heal Thyself!" Really? Why? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. This will be podcast #470 on 10/6/2025 Procrastination: Be Gone! And Physician, Heal Thyself! Really? Why? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Rhonda asks: Why do people procrastinate? Rhonda asks: Wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? Rhonda asks: Here is a question I have: You often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist have to do their personal work? Rhonda writes: I have been thinking a lot about procrastination since we met last week.  Why do people procrastinate? It's one thing not to put away a stack of files on your desk, it's another thing to procrastinate on something major, like finishing your dissertation, doing your taxes, or some things that have a major consequence.  It's a habit like anything else so there is a cue, the pattern, and the reward. Cue: I don't want to finish my dissertation because it's overwhelming and I don't think I am smart enough to finish it, and I don't want to face it. Pattern: Procrastinate Reward: Relief that I have avoided it another day. So, wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? I've also been thinking a lot about positive reframing. I always do it, even with a client who has done it before, to remind people, and keep alive, their positive qualities, and to encourage more embracing/accepting of their symptoms as beautiful parts of themselves. With clients who have experience doing Positive Reframe, reframing their THOUGHTS, not just their feelings, can give a lot of insight. Here is a question I have, you often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist.  Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else?  A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient.  Why does a therapist? David replies People procrastinate because they don’t want to do the thing they are putting off. There is no one reason, since we’re all different. And we all tend to avoid things that seem unpleasant, and gravitate towards things that are more pleasant. I classify it in the general category of “Habit / Addiction.” For years I dealt with the reasons people procrastinate as a first step, including the thoughts they have at the moment they procrastinate. I thought my job was to “help” the person who was procrastinating. This was universally unsuccessful, and not their failure became MY failure. This allowed them to continue procrastinating, since the doctor was trying to help them, and responsible for helping them. I decided, instead, to go with an approach that works. It took a number of years to figure that out! But it was a huge relief! We don’t say that a psychiatrist or psychologist has to have schizophrenia or be cured of schizophrenia to help someone with schizophrenia. And we don’t say that a mental health professional has to have OCD to treat someone with OCD effectively. No one has ever claimed that. What I am saying is that a heart surgeon has to have credibility and training in successful heart surgery to get the license practice surgery. But how does a mental professional get credibility? Well, let’s say that you’ve once had severe public speaking anxiety, as I have had. And social anxiety as well. So, when a patient comes to me with social anxiety or public speaking anxiety, I can say, “Oh, I’ve had that too, and I know exactly how awful that can feel. And, it’s going to be a pleasure to show you the way out of the woods.” This message is generally welcomed by patients because it conveys two messages: I know how much you’re suffering, because I’ve experienced it myself. I have the skills and the confidence to treat you successfully. Would you want to go to a therapist for the treatment of your own public speaking anxiety, or shyness, if you knew that the therapist had these problems and still hadn’t found a cure for themself? There are other powerful reasons for doing your own personal work: You can see the impact of therapist errors if colleagues have tried to treat you without good empathy or methods. You can see what recovery / enlightenment mean at a much deeper level! You can see how and why certain techniques can be so critically important and helpful, and why many others will not be helpful. Once you have done your own work successfully, and experienced your own “enlightenment” or “recovery” or whatever you want to call it, you are no longer a mental health professional / technician type of therapist. You graduate to the “healer” class! During the live show, I went through the structure of the new approach to procrastination, and she sent this email right after finishing her “Mission Accomplished” or “I stubbornly refused” task. Dear Matt and David! Successfully completed! Thank you, Rhonda Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

#469 Ask David-- What if AI steals my job? I'm freaking out! Recently, I got a cool question from Megan Morrone, a technology and science editor at Axios. She asked about job anxiety due to fears of AI taking over our work. Initially, I declined to speculate, since I’ve never treated anxiety due to AI stealing someone's job. But the more I thought about it, I realized I had quite a few, perhaps humble, things to say, so here it is, with help from Matt and Rhonda. I’ll include a link to her column at the end of these show notes. She wrote: Dear Dr. Burns, I’m a technology and science editor at Axios, working on a story about job anxiety and how it affects workers today. Would have time to chat with me about it? I’m hoping to schedule a brief phone or Zoom conversation before Tuesday. 15–20 minutes? We’d potentially discuss: Why job-related anxiety feels especially pervasive right now What strategies are most effective in managing it How CBT approaches can be applied in workplace or career contexts Please let me know if you have availability. Best, Megan Morrone She subsequently clarified her focus: Hi! I'm looking at anxiety around AI stealing your job. Would you be able to speak to that? Any chance you're Monday between 7:30AM-9:30AM Pacific or anytime after 12:30pm Pacific time? I'd only need 20-30 minutes and we can do it via phone or video call. David’s response Hi Megan, I thought of one point I could make if it would further your cause. Every negative emotion has a healthy and an unhealthy version. For example, healthy fear—when you’re facing a realistic danger—is not the same as a panic attack or a phobia or social anxiety, etc. Healthy fear, or healthy sadness, and so forth, or not emotional problems needing treatment, but realistic emotions telling us to take action. Sadly, with AI as the latest revolution, lots will change, some good, some bad. And sadly, many will lose their work due to being taken over by AI. Our son, for example, used to get high paid work anytime he wanted in user interface work for companies with prominent web presences. But now AI does all of that, apparently. So, he has to look for something entirely different, and he’s tried a lot. With a wife and a baby, the financial issues are real. Now, if someone starts getting overwhelmed by feelings of anxiety, self-criticism, and inadequacy, and hopelessness, that IS something I can help with—big time, Bu the practical problems in finding new and different work will remain even after the person has regained self-esteem and optimism. So sometimes scrambling and being flexible, if possible, and getting coaching with an expert in jobs and career development, perhaps, on what might be practically possible, is called for, and not psychotherapy. I LOVE working with anxiety and can usually guide my patients to extremely rapid recovery, which is tremendously rewarding, for them and for me! But when the problem is real, my expertise does not match the needs. Hope this helps in some small way. Of course, sometimes a good shrink can help with sorting out options in the real world, but that generally requires a different type of specialized training. It is profoundly sad, and we have personally experienced it, that so many people are facing this tragic uncertainty and worry about making ends meet and finding themselves lost due to this overwhelming and unpredictable new revolution. For what it’s worth, my book, when Panic Attacks, is a mass market paperback that has helped many anxiety sufferers and illustrate a great many methods. Also, our Feeling Great app is currently free of charge and causes dramatic reductions in anxiety, depression, and a host of other negative emotions in less than 90 minutes the first time people sit down and use it. It actually includes a highly trained AI designed to use the exact methods I use in my work, and our data suggests that it vastly outperforms most human therapists but will probably not replace them because some serious problems require human intervention. Best, david David responds to Megan a bit further Wonderful, I had one or two additional thoughts for you. People faced with layoffs due to AI (or any reason) face two challenges: the inner challenge and the outer challenge. The outer challenge involves finding, of course, some new way to work and support yourself and your family. The inner challenge has to do with your thoughts. One of the Self-Defeating Beliefs behind a great deal of depression and anxiety is the Achievement Addiction, which means measuring your self-worth based on your work, your achievements, and so forth. This goes back to the Calvinist work ethic, as you know, which is one of the cornerstones of western civilization: you ARE what you DO. So if you do good things, you are a good person; but if you are not doing anything productive or constructive, you are worthless. So it is super easy to fall into a pattern of self-critical (and distorted) negative thoughts when you lose your work, including “I’m worthless,” and “I’m letting my family down,” and “this is my fault,” or “it’s unfair,” and endless varieties of these themes that can trigger immediate depression, anxiety, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, anger, and more. So that is the inner battle. And that’s where good psychotherapy CAN play a hugely important role, so you don’t have to double your trouble and face a loss of your job plus the loss of your self-esteem and dignity at the same time. Thanks, and good luck with your article! Warmly, david We discussed a great deal more on the live podcast. Megan just emailed me again, and here’s what she said: You’re way ahead of me! The story hasn’t been published yet. But you can plug our Axios AI+ newsletter https://www.axios.com/signup/ai-plus So, check it out! And thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David  

In this engaging discussion, Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing for the Feeling Great app, reveals insights from the 2025 listener survey. She shares that nearly 90% of respondents are tuning in to boost their emotional well-being, with a surprising 66% over 50 years old. Topics like anxiety, depression, and relationships top the list of concerns. Listeners appreciate practical techniques but offer constructive feedback on aspects like pacing and audio quality. Sevde also highlights a growing adoption of the Feeling Great app among U.S. fans.

This discussion tackles the delicate dynamics of caring for a demanding elderly relative, emphasizing the importance of empathy in family relationships. Strategies for communicating effectively with loved ones are shared, highlighting the impact of acknowledging emotions. The conversation also navigates challenging interactions with people holding extreme views, urging listeners to cultivate compassion even in difficult circumstances. With real-life examples, the hosts inspire a deeper understanding of human behavior and the transformative power of kindness.

Is friendship a basic human need? The podcast dives into this question, exploring the psychological effects of loneliness and the vital role relationships play in our happiness. Personal anecdotes reveal the joy that solitude can bring, drawing parallels to historical figures. A fine line between need and desire in friendships is discussed, emphasizing the importance of self-discovery. The conversation also highlights overcoming external approval addiction, showcasing paths to inner fulfillment.

In this lively discussion, neuroscientist Mark Noble, a recently certified TEAM CBT coach who combines his love for music with therapy, and Angela Poch, an international TEAM CBT trainer and therapist, explore the therapeutic power of music. They dive into how songwriting can enhance emotional resilience and self-acceptance. Topics include the intersection of music and mental health, personal growth through emotional expression, and the innovative use of AI in creative processes. Expect original songs that humorously capture identity and feelings!

Mike Christensen, a Canadian TEAM therapist, shares his inspiring personal journey from feelings of betrayal and hopelessness to helping others navigate the same struggles. He explores innovative approaches to treating hopelessness, emphasizing the need for empathy and understanding rather than quick fixes. The conversation delves into the significance of vulnerability in therapy and celebrates failure as a catalyst for growth. Mike's insights about authenticity and connection highlight how embracing one's imperfections can lead to a more fulfilling life.

In this engaging discussion, psychologist Jill Levitt shares her expertise on defeating perfectionism and embracing self-acceptance. She explores powerful techniques like cognitive distortion identification and the externalization of voices. Listeners will learn to confront their fears through the 'feared fantasy' approach, highlighting the humor in harsh self-judgment. The conversation also emphasizes valuing love and connection over flawlessness, offering practical strategies to boost motivation and enhance therapeutic skills.

In a thought-provoking discussion, Dr. Jill Levitt, a leading figure in cognitive behavioral therapy, joins to tackle the challenging topic of perfectionism. She delves into how perfectionism fuels feelings of anxiety and inadequacy, and highlights the emotional pain that often accompanies those beliefs. Listeners learn about Positive Reframing and Cost-Benefit Analysis, powerful tools to combat perfectionistic thought patterns. The conversation also emphasizes the balance between striving for excellence and the need for self-acceptance.