Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Ask David Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Jenn also asks: How did you get involved with / develop the spiritual and enlightenment aspect of TEAM? Dear Dr. Burns, Let me start by saying thank you for all of your hard work and diligence in creating a method which is so user friendly. Completing the book, When Panic Attacks, changed my life and helped me reach enlightenment. My Ask David question is inspired by the last few podcasts, the live session with Rhonda and the live session with Madelaine which David just did with Jill. David has clearly worked so hard to create TEAM and has dedicated so much time to perfect it. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to the podcast when it first started. Some of my favorite episodes to listen to are the live therapy sessions. I've gained insight and felt heard through many of these such as when David told Lee how lonely enlightenment can be because I agree with that! Recently I have noticed that David's demeanor has changed and was hoping to ask about it. I can imagine David might feel lonely in his expertise sometimes. I might be on the wrong track here too but I wonder if David might be feeling frustrated with the lack of understanding from people around him. He has been dedicating his life to this and still people do not understand certain aspects of his research and teaching. On recent podcasts, David had mentioned that he gets more irritated with teaching now too and it has seemed like he is irritated with Rhonda at points. He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions. Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. I did not find it to be David's usual work of patience and warmth. I could be completely off the rails but I am wondering if this is resonating with David and if he could share more about what it's been like for him recently. I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? I can imagine people would want help from you 24/7 and if you could speak to that. I am hoping David can look at some of those thoughts and comments he's made on the podcasts and become the client for us listeners! I would love for David to show us how to experience TEAM from the client's perspective for all to hear. I have used TEAM-CBT for 10 years and recently started the Fast Track Program which I am very excited for! Thank you again for this truly amazing process! Jenn David's reply Thanks, Jenn, You are right, I DO feel quite a bit of irritation with our field and can identify a bit with Martin Luther, who nailed his treatise / ideas on someone's door hundreds of years ago, and also Jesus who angrily threw the money changers out of the temple a couple thousand years ago. I know that sounds narcissistic, but that's how I feel sometimes. My frustration has several dimensions: The field, to my way of thinking, is incredibly screwed up and anti-scientific, divided into irrational cults called "schools" of therapy. Nobody seems to notice this "elephant" in our room! Hey, are you all sleeping? Did you learn critical thinking in college? When challenged by research that seriously questions the validity and effectiveness of current psychotherapies for depression and anxiety, for example, no one seems to care or notice. It seems like wrong theories die hard. People do not like being criticized and got angry when I criticize the field of psychotherapy. So, there is a kind of a "let's be politically correct" and be super "nice" to everyone, so as not to stir them up or hurt their feelings. There is a potential for massive change and improvements in psychotherapy and psychiatric treatment, but it would require a revolution and the acceptance of totally new approaches which would threaten many therapists' thinking and survival at a very basic level. Are you or others interested in my thinking? Let me know. If so, more later, maybe on a podcast or two with Jill and Matt, and of course, Rhonda. And here are the answers to some of your other questions. You say, "He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions." We're not on the same page here. I nearly always see dramatic change in 2 hour sessions, and I'm dramatic that I have created a therapeutic approach that makes this possible. When I was a young man, a psychiatric resident, I use to dream about that, and wondered if it was even possible, since I almost never saw meaningful change, much less recovery and joy, in any of my patients using the methods I was talk (supportive listening and antidepressants.) You also wrote: I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? Cool question. I think many people see me as a dedicated expert, but I think a few, particular from some of the Asian countries, to like to see people as "gurus" or something on that level. Sometimes I may even encourage that, as I am a strong believer that therapy, at its deepest level, does become spiritual. So, questions about spirituality and enlightenment do interest me greatly, and many of the techniques I've created are designed to facilitate rapid improvement, in minutes, vs. years of meditation. The Externalization of Voices would be an example, and it was actually the first CBT technique I created, around or even prior to 1975. You say, Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. You are partially correct and perhaps somewhat "off." Where you are right is that I miscalculated the time for the webinar, and thought we had to stop at 12:30. I later figured out we had until 1 PM, and we could have spent more time on EOV. Where you're perhaps wrong is that sometimes a confrontation can "jar" a patient into enlightenment. Few therapists use confrontation, but I have always used it, ever since my days in psychodrama as a medical student. Madeleine commented in her follow up evaluation on the things most helpful to her during the session, and that was one of them. Research has consistently proven that the observers of therapy cannot accurately assess the quality of the therapeutic alliance, as reported by the patient, or the effectiveness of what's happening during a session. I sometimes wish therapist observers had a bit more humility about the accuracy of their observations, based on research that's been replicated over and over! But there I am, whining again so I will stop! At any rate, Jenn, thanks for the wonderfully informative critical thinking, and great questions! Warmly, david Jenn's response to David Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your fast response. I am really honored that you took the time to reply to me! Thank you for your honesty too and I can imagine it's super frustrating! I do not think that sounds narcissistic, I think you are right. I find it extremely frustrating too and I am just a user and learner of TEAM. I think I "see it" sometimes since I've done some personal work. I'm still human with many flaws as I am sure you caught on to a few in my email. I completely agree with all of your points. I genuinely do not understand how TEAM-CBT is not the go-to. It is finally a scientific method that is proven to be effective. It truly leaves me speechless and I could ramble about TEAM for hours to be honest! I am a registered nurse and I have a difficult time seeing my patients being "thrown" anti-depressants etc. The biological theory was the go-to in mental health and about 10 years ago as I was finishing my nursing degree I read When Panic Attacks. It was mind blowing to me. At the time I was working on a Stroke Rehab unit and the psychologist would recommend our depressed and anxious patients be put on medication. When I asked if she had heard about your work she scoffed at it and it made me so mad! I wanted to scream at her to read your work but she was resistant to even listening and perhaps that will not surprise you based on your points (and also how I incorrectly tried to sell it to her!). I would see so many of my patients put on antidepressants and left alone afterwards as if that would solve everything. Even recently during my labour and delivery training we had a psychologist speak to us about post partum mood "disorders" and she specifically mentioned her patients "yes-butting" her and made a joke about how resistant they are to change and I just had this thought HELLOOOOO has agenda setting not been around for years????? Do people not search out solutions and try to be better? I could Google "my patient is yes-butting me" and your work would come up and it is not easy but it is spelled-out and so accessible to learn. Anyway, I could rant forever. I'm on the same page with you, Dr. Burns! Thank you for the follow-up email as well. You are right on this one for sure- my therapist observer totally was inaccurate! And I was thinking "I wonder what her EOV is here and if that was effective". I had asked that question in the chat after the webinar but it was at the end and we did not get to it So next time I will ask that as a question in my email instead. I had not seen confrontation used like that and it did seem off-putting and that just shows how well-versed you are in its use and how I am a learner. Thank you for the feedback. This is making me laugh because I am in the Fast-Track course and I really strive on feedback, and I like getting errors over with. In my nursing career I always had "med error" as the thing I never wanted to do and it felt so good when I finally made one (and it also helps the patient was fine haha). So, I had this thought about learning TEAM and how I know that the therapists are never accurate and how I never want to be the therapist that assumes their thinking. So, I am very happy to have done it already and I have not even started the course really. I want to comment and ask about the spiritual aspect of TEAM. Did you find the spirituality came after personal work or did you see the spiritual aspect before or just as you were developing the whole process? Externalization of voices and a daily mood log is what got me to enlightenment, but it is hard to put into words. I had blips of the euphoria enlightenment over the years but about 5 years ago I had this "big one" and it was not euphoric. It was nothing (but everything) and it was like I became an observer and absolutely none of my thoughts had emotional attachments. It was instant relief of human suffering for sure. Sorry if this is bizarre and I am not sure if this resonates or if I sound like a crazy person. In your podcast with Lee you mentioned that enlightenment is lonely and so I thought maybe you have been here. When it first happened it was an overwhelm of being just matter and being everything and nothing all at once. I could see humanity from an outside perspective almost. I was raised catholic and everything that I learned made sense but in a very different way than I was taught - it was like I understood what Buddha and you and the bible talks about but the deeper meaning if that makes sense. And I sat in the observer role for a couple of days and it was fine because I had no emotional attachment. Actually, as a test I looked at my husband when he got home from work the day it happened and I recognized him of course but I just felt the baseline contentment or a peace overall. The nothingness and the everythingness all at once. When I looked at him I had no emotions or gut reactions or anything and when I thought "that is my husband" I had no emotional ties but I could recognize that my human self loves him but even that love was all created from nothing and everything. This sounds so bizarre! Day 3 or 4 I went to a house party and again I was just an observer and recognized that my human ego is very tied to wanting others to like me, when I attempted humor it would be to serve my ego, before I'd try to make people laugh for me rather for them and a lot of our actions are tied to our egos. After this party, maybe the next day or something I also saw that as I was observing that although I had no emotional ties that also means…I had no emotional ties! It came to me that to live a human life I cannot be in this enlightenment stage. It was lonely even though that did not bother me at the time and seeing humans from this outside perspective is incredibly hard to describe and was overwhelming. So in my enlightenment it was almost like I had to decide to step back into trying to be human so I could carry on with life and try and find these emotional ties and what to do with this awareness of my flaws and what even my personality is. It has rocked me a bit! I have decided to just follow things that I find fun or challenging or have become an interest and the flaws quickly followed! Have you heard of anyone having a bit of fear in reaching enlightenment again? Although the initial hit was so awesome and a huge relief of suffering, I experienced truly what it is like to not have flaws and not have any emotional ties to thoughts. I do have some interesting anxious thoughts about going "back there" and this was the perfect example of "everything in moderation". I must love my flaws haha. Thanks for your time, Dr. Burns! I thought I had heard you mention during a podcast that you feel disappointed if you don't see change in a 2 hour session maybe while you were empathizing with another therapist so I apologize that I was wrong there. I am most likely remembering it incorrectly or I presented the context incorrectly -it's a common flaw of mine haha usually I need to write things down. Looking forward to hearing back, Jenn David's response to Jenn Thanks, Jenn. Awesome email. In the context of my empathizing with another therapist, I could well have said something like that for sure! You are dipping into enlightenment. Way to go. Very exciting, and now YOU will be the expert. When I lived in Philadelphia, I was lucky to audit a class by James Arbukcle at Temple University on structural equation modeling. It was unbelievably exciting for me, and even though I was in private practice, I went once a week for the three hour seminar and did 20 hours of homework every week. I could not believe my good fortune, as he made everything super simple and clear. It was a wow experience every week. For quite a while, I would ask him question when I got stuck or puzzled analyzing my data with his AMOS program, and he seemed to know everything. Which was also cool. Then, one day, he started answer my questions by saying, "Actually, I don't know the answer to that." Like, the first time this happened I asked him the cause of Heywood cases. That where you get a seemingly impossible result, like a correlation greater than one. But then, an odd thing happened. I found that if I worked at it, I could figure these things out for myself. And often, the answers would come to me in a dream, in the middle of the night. So, like James, I probably can't answer all your questions anymore, although hopefully I can still answer a few of them! By the way, James Arbuckle was one of the most amazing teachers I've ever had, and I will forever be grateful for his generosity in letting me audit his class--I was not even a student at Temple--two years in a row for free. And what I learned forever changed my career and my life, especially my way of thinking about research and statistical analyses. Warmly, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

Discover powerful strategies to conquer shyness and social anxiety with expert insights from Dr. David Burns and Jill Levitt. They share seven impressive techniques that can help anyone, whether you're a therapist or someone dealing with these feelings personally. Learn how to overcome fears, build authentic connections, and hear a compelling therapy demonstration. With over 50,000 clinical hours backing his expertise, Dr. Burns' personal journey adds a relatable touch to these invaluable insights. Don't miss this life-changing opportunity!

Discover the art of positive reframing—should we focus on feelings or specific thoughts? Explore the reliability of the '20 Qualities' mate checklist and how to effectively use it in dating. Learn the importance of asking direct questions to gauge loyalty and sincerity in relationships. Discover tips on spotting red flags and why patience in intimacy can reveal true character. Plus, insights on deepening connections through shared experiences and challenges are discussed.

Dr. David Burns and Jill Levitt will teach you seven jaw-dropping techniques to end feelings of shyness and social anxiety. For shrinks AND for the general public. If you're hurting, or you have patients who are hurting, we want you to join us! It's 100% free. Therapists even get two FREE CE credits if you attend the live event. Sign up now at CBTforSocialAnxiety.com. This event could change your life. It's Wednesday, November 5th, 2025, from 11 AM to 1 PM Pacific Coast Time. Be THERE!

Ask David, Dr. Matthew May asks--and helps us answer--the most common question he hears from his patients and fans: How do I help a loved one, friend, or colleague who's upset, agitated, angry, anxious, and more? Matt asks: People ask me about a loved one who is anxious, and want to know what to do to help that person. Example: "My daughter is hooked on social media. She's literally 'addicted'. She has terrible insomnia, low self-esteem, anxiety, hopelessness, depression, anger and fits of rage when we try to take her phone away. When my daughter is online, she texts things like: Is this really happening? This can't be happening OMG! This is terrible! How awful! Why am I so unpopular? I'm totally alone I shouldn't have posted all that stuff Everyone thinks I'm an idiot I have to do something to fit in Everything's hopeless. I give up. Is someone monitoring and recording me? All those creeps are evil and deserve worse than what they're getting On the podcast, Matt, Rhonda and David demonstrate effective and ineffective ways of responding to your loved one, or to anyone who is complaining and feeling upset. They use role-playing to illustrate the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and you will see how hard it can be to hit it out of the park, even for experts! Thanks for listening today! In the upcoming weeks, we'll have several more Ask David episodes with these questions and more. Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Charlotte asks: What's the best way to use the "20 Qualities I'm looking for in an ideal mate?" Charlotte also asks: What's the best way to find out if someone you're dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

You're Right! A Deep Dive on the Disarming Technique Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance On today's podcast, we will be practicing the Disarming Technique and illustrate the Law of Opposites, using real examples with lots of potential for learning. We feature our good friend and esteemed colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, who is an advanced TEAM therapist. Starting on November 5, Brandon will be offering a 6-week course on a Deep Dive Five Secrets Practice Group, meeting weekly from 12 to1:30, until December 10th. This course is strongly recommended for anyone who wants to learn and master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. To learn more, you can click here Our goals for today's podcast will be to illustrate how to disarm, with role play examples, of any number of very challenging examples. Once we have done role reversals and developed a good or excellent response to the criticism, we will try to point out two things important for teaching the Disarming Technique. The Law of Opposite: Here it is: When you humbly find the real truth in the criticism, even if it sounds exaggerated, distorted, unfair, or just plan wrong, it suddenly won't be true anymore. This is a paradox! In contrast, if you defend yourself from the criticism, which you WILL do, you will simply prove that the criticism is correct. This is also a paradox! We will illustrate some strategies for how to disarm seemingly "impossibly wrong and unfair" criticisms. We started with a classic example. Let's say a loved one angrily insists, "You never listen." Then we focused on a challenging clinical example, a patient who insists that "You're to worst shrink I've EVER had! Where did you do your psychiatric training? At a veterinarian school?" The exercise is fairly simple in structure, but quite challenging when you try it out in an actual role play exercise with a friend or colleague. Step 1: Your colleague or friends hits you with one of the following criticisms listed below. Step 2: You respond as effectively as you can, using the Disarming Technique and the rest of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication as needed. Step 3. Your colleague gives you a letter grade along with what you did that was effective, and where you missed the boat. Step 4. Do a role reversal and repeat the above steps. Continue with this process until you get an A in your response to the criticism. I don't have a full list of strategies for agreeing with impossible criticisms, but here are two: continue editing here Don't respond to the criticism literally. Instead, try to "hear" what the other person is trying to say to you. Example: Your patient says, "This is the second week in a row that you've been late to our sessions." Ineffective, literal response: "Yes, that's true. I've been delayed by emergency situations both today and last week." Explanation: This is harsh and literal, and misses the point entirely. This patient is trying to tell you that they feel ignored and uncared about, and this may in fact be a central dynamic in their life. Somewhat more effective response: "Yes, I share your concern, especially since I have high regard for you and hate having to be late. I'm really worried it will come across as uncaring and irresponsible. In fact, I had unexpected emergencies with suicidal patients both days, and will certainly make up the missed time for you, and not even charge you for today's session. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel hurt and even a bit angry with me, and for good reason. Can you tell me how you are feeing?" This type of response gives you the chance to turn your lemons into lemonade! When you disarm, never say, "I can see how you might feel that way!" This is just a subtle way of sending this insulting message" 'You're wrong, and you're making a misinterpretation because you're a disturbed patient!" If a psychotic individuals makes a bizarre-sounding criticism, listen to the music behind the words and respond to that in a disarming way. For example, imagine that your hospitalized inpatient with paranoid schizophrenia says, "I know you're conspiring against me with the FBI." What is this patient trying to tell you? They are telling you, symbolically, something like this: "During our session yesterday, you were not trustworthy. I was anxious and still am!" So, you might respond like this: "Jim, I am embarrassed to admit that I agree with you completely, and also feel bad about it. During our session yesterday, I did a lousy job of supporting you, and we just didn't connect, which was my bad. I felt like an enemy, and not your ally, so I get what you're saying. This is important because I care a great deal for you. Can you tell me what it was like for you yesterday?" With this type of kindly, disarming, and non-threatening response, most patients will open up right away. This list of errors is not comprehensive. It's just a started kit to point you, hopefully, in the right direction. You will get many of the fine points by listening to the live podcast. You might enjoy reviewing the following list of difficult / impossible criticisms you might hear from patients or friends of family members. It can be really helpful to see if you can find a way to agree with these criticisms that's genuine and effective. Burns, isn't it true that you're a total fraud and a worthless human being? You're full of shit and you know it! I followed your suggestion on what to say to my relative, even using the 5-Secrets, and now they won't speak to me. Rhonda says: Just to be clear, the following challenges from unhappy kids were not directed at me! I wish you had died instead of Mom. (We practiced this one on the live podcast.) Can you give me my inheritance now, so I don't have to see you ever again? You need to butt out of what you don't understand. All I remember from my childhood is how you weren't there for me. You should have protected me when I was a kid, but you didn't. Here are some more from patients in various setting. A patient yells out as you pass on the locked inpatient psych ward: "Doctor, you're trying to kill me!" Or as a (non-suicidal) private practice patient said: "You probably wish I was dead!" Or "You like your other patients better than me" An angry patient says: "you've ruined my life!" An unhappy patient says: I bet you faked your diploma! More personal / family examples A romantic partner says "you're gaslighting me". A friend says "you're flirting with my girlfriend - you're trying to steal her away from me!" Your wife says "you're having an affair" when you're not. Your teenage son says "I know I was an accident and you wish you never even had me." Your student catches you in the hallway and winks saying, "You like me better than the other students, right?" Thanks for listening today! Brandon, Rhonda, and David

TEAM Trauma Treatment-- How Does It Work? And Why? Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt Today's podcast features one of our favorite guests, Dr. Jill Levitt, who is one of the greatest psychology teachers on planet earth. We explore trauma, and how it is treated. We focus in particular on the unique features of trauma treatment using TEAM CBT. Jill is currently the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, but she has had intensive training in trauma treatment beginning during her psychology internship at the Cornell Medical Center (? is this correct) in 200? (dates please Jill) and continuing until (date please.) She worked with adults survivors of childhood physical and sexual abuse, as well as victims of the 2011 tragedy at the world trade center, which happened when she was working in New York. She got extra training from several outstanding experts in the treatment of trauma and anxiety, including the renown Dr. Edna Foa, from Temple University in Philadelphia, as well as (please list if you like, Jill!) Rhonda also has extensive experience in the treatment of trauma since she worked for (x years, please fill in) at th San Francisco Rape and Trauma Clinical. Rhonda emphasized the importance of shame and toxic but high irrational self-blame so often seen in trauma patients of all ages, including, of course, children. Jill and Rhonda emphasized the importance of the selective use of exposure techniques with trauma patients, and the unfortunate fear that many, and perhaps most, therapists have of these techniques, wrongly fearing that the patient will decompensate and that the therapist, too, will become overwhelmed when hearing the patient recount their horrific experiences in detail. I, David, will add that I've never had a negative experience with the use of exposure techniques, like cognitive flooding, memory rescripting, and many more with any trauma patients. However, I always do E = Empathy first, as well as A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, to guarantee that the patient and I will be working together as a collaborative team. Rhonda asked us to talk a bit about "vicarious trauma" that the therapist might experience when working with trauma patients. Both Jill and David said they've never experienced this, and that only our thoughts, and not the experiences our patients describe, can upset us. We believe the concept of "vicarious trauma" is highly (but not intentionally) misleading and needlessly frightening to those working with trauma patients. Of course, if a therapist does become triggered when working with any patient, including a trauma patient, that is grist for the mill for the therapist to work out with their own therapist, using perhaps the Daily Mood Log to explore and challenge the therapist's upsetting negative thoughts. Perhaps the most important theme today focused on the treatment of trauma patients--as well as non-trauma patients--individually, using TEAM to pinpoint one moment the patient was upset, and exploring their negative thoughts and feelings with the help of the Daily Mood Log, as well as the other vitally important components of T E A M. I (David) do not place much stock in treating patients with "formulas" based on their "diagnosis" or problem. I did 20 or more two day trauma workshops around the US and Canada several years back, and treated a volunteer from the audience at each workshop on the evening of day 1, using a two-hour TEAM CBT session. In all or nearly all of these sessions, the individuals experienced a triumphant and blow-away elimination of all their negative feelings by the end of the demonstration. But here's the interesting thing: although I occasionally included cognitive exposure, it was perhaps the technique I used the least often with these individuals. Far more powerful for most were techniques like Explain the Distortions, the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices. Sometime, an interpersonal technique, including the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, was helpful, even life-changing. If you are interested, you can read about those sessions in Chapter X in my most recent book, Feeling Great, as well as illustrations of the data from all the patients, showing the dramatic changes in negative and positive feelings from the start to the end of the sessions. Why did these individuals recover so dramatically and quickly--within a single session? I believe it was because I focused on what was upsetting THEM, and developing an agenda and selecting methods to focus on what they wanted. This, to my way of thinking, is different, even radically different, from imposing a pre-set agenda on patients simply because we think they have some type of trauma diagnosis. David described the three elements of an "abuse contract" between the abuser and the victim: I get to hurt or exploit you for my own pleasure. The Blame will be 100% on you. I am a blameless, superior god. We must keep this as a secret, even between us. If you violate this, I will hurt you very badly. Thanks for listening today! Jill, Rhonda, and David

Procrastination: Be Gone! And "Physician, Heal Thyself!" Really? Why? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. This will be podcast #470 on 10/6/2025 Procrastination: Be Gone! And Physician, Heal Thyself! Really? Why? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Rhonda asks: Why do people procrastinate? Rhonda asks: Wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? Rhonda asks: Here is a question I have: You often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist have to do their personal work? Rhonda writes: I have been thinking a lot about procrastination since we met last week. Why do people procrastinate? It's one thing not to put away a stack of files on your desk, it's another thing to procrastinate on something major, like finishing your dissertation, doing your taxes, or some things that have a major consequence. It's a habit like anything else so there is a cue, the pattern, and the reward. Cue: I don't want to finish my dissertation because it's overwhelming and I don't think I am smart enough to finish it, and I don't want to face it. Pattern: Procrastinate Reward: Relief that I have avoided it another day. So, wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? I've also been thinking a lot about positive reframing. I always do it, even with a client who has done it before, to remind people, and keep alive, their positive qualities, and to encourage more embracing/accepting of their symptoms as beautiful parts of themselves. With clients who have experience doing Positive Reframe, reframing their THOUGHTS, not just their feelings, can give a lot of insight. Here is a question I have, you often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist? David replies People procrastinate because they don't want to do the thing they are putting off. There is no one reason, since we're all different. And we all tend to avoid things that seem unpleasant, and gravitate towards things that are more pleasant. I classify it in the general category of "Habit / Addiction." For years I dealt with the reasons people procrastinate as a first step, including the thoughts they have at the moment they procrastinate. I thought my job was to "help" the person who was procrastinating. This was universally unsuccessful, and not their failure became MY failure. This allowed them to continue procrastinating, since the doctor was trying to help them, and responsible for helping them. I decided, instead, to go with an approach that works. It took a number of years to figure that out! But it was a huge relief! We don't say that a psychiatrist or psychologist has to have schizophrenia or be cured of schizophrenia to help someone with schizophrenia. And we don't say that a mental health professional has to have OCD to treat someone with OCD effectively. No one has ever claimed that. What I am saying is that a heart surgeon has to have credibility and training in successful heart surgery to get the license practice surgery. But how does a mental professional get credibility? Well, let's say that you've once had severe public speaking anxiety, as I have had. And social anxiety as well. So, when a patient comes to me with social anxiety or public speaking anxiety, I can say, "Oh, I've had that too, and I know exactly how awful that can feel. And, it's going to be a pleasure to show you the way out of the woods." This message is generally welcomed by patients because it conveys two messages: I know how much you're suffering, because I've experienced it myself. I have the skills and the confidence to treat you successfully. Would you want to go to a therapist for the treatment of your own public speaking anxiety, or shyness, if you knew that the therapist had these problems and still hadn't found a cure for themself? There are other powerful reasons for doing your own personal work: You can see the impact of therapist errors if colleagues have tried to treat you without good empathy or methods. You can see what recovery / enlightenment mean at a much deeper level! You can see how and why certain techniques can be so critically important and helpful, and why many others will not be helpful. Once you have done your own work successfully, and experienced your own "enlightenment" or "recovery" or whatever you want to call it, you are no longer a mental health professional / technician type of therapist. You graduate to the "healer" class! During the live show, I went through the structure of the new approach to procrastination, and she sent this email right after finishing her "Mission Accomplished" or "I stubbornly refused" task. Dear Matt and David! Successfully completed! Thank you, Rhonda Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

#469 Ask David-- What if AI steals my job? I'm freaking out! Recently, I got a cool question from Megan Morrone, a technology and science editor at Axios. She asked about job anxiety due to fears of AI taking over our work. Initially, I declined to speculate, since I've never treated anxiety due to AI stealing someone's job. But the more I thought about it, I realized I had quite a few, perhaps humble, things to say, so here it is, with help from Matt and Rhonda. I'll include a link to her column at the end of these show notes. She wrote: Dear Dr. Burns, I'm a technology and science editor at Axios, working on a story about job anxiety and how it affects workers today. Would have time to chat with me about it? I'm hoping to schedule a brief phone or Zoom conversation before Tuesday. 15–20 minutes? We'd potentially discuss: Why job-related anxiety feels especially pervasive right now What strategies are most effective in managing it How CBT approaches can be applied in workplace or career contexts Please let me know if you have availability. Best, Megan Morrone She subsequently clarified her focus: Hi! I'm looking at anxiety around AI stealing your job. Would you be able to speak to that? Any chance you're Monday between 7:30AM-9:30AM Pacific or anytime after 12:30pm Pacific time? I'd only need 20-30 minutes and we can do it via phone or video call. David's response Hi Megan, I thought of one point I could make if it would further your cause. Every negative emotion has a healthy and an unhealthy version. For example, healthy fear—when you're facing a realistic danger—is not the same as a panic attack or a phobia or social anxiety, etc. Healthy fear, or healthy sadness, and so forth, or not emotional problems needing treatment, but realistic emotions telling us to take action. Sadly, with AI as the latest revolution, lots will change, some good, some bad. And sadly, many will lose their work due to being taken over by AI. Our son, for example, used to get high paid work anytime he wanted in user interface work for companies with prominent web presences. But now AI does all of that, apparently. So, he has to look for something entirely different, and he's tried a lot. With a wife and a baby, the financial issues are real. Now, if someone starts getting overwhelmed by feelings of anxiety, self-criticism, and inadequacy, and hopelessness, that IS something I can help with—big time, Bu the practical problems in finding new and different work will remain even after the person has regained self-esteem and optimism. So sometimes scrambling and being flexible, if possible, and getting coaching with an expert in jobs and career development, perhaps, on what might be practically possible, is called for, and not psychotherapy. I LOVE working with anxiety and can usually guide my patients to extremely rapid recovery, which is tremendously rewarding, for them and for me! But when the problem is real, my expertise does not match the needs. Hope this helps in some small way. Of course, sometimes a good shrink can help with sorting out options in the real world, but that generally requires a different type of specialized training. It is profoundly sad, and we have personally experienced it, that so many people are facing this tragic uncertainty and worry about making ends meet and finding themselves lost due to this overwhelming and unpredictable new revolution. For what it's worth, my book, when Panic Attacks, is a mass market paperback that has helped many anxiety sufferers and illustrate a great many methods. Also, our Feeling Great app is currently free of charge and causes dramatic reductions in anxiety, depression, and a host of other negative emotions in less than 90 minutes the first time people sit down and use it. It actually includes a highly trained AI designed to use the exact methods I use in my work, and our data suggests that it vastly outperforms most human therapists but will probably not replace them because some serious problems require human intervention. Best, david David responds to Megan a bit further Wonderful, I had one or two additional thoughts for you. People faced with layoffs due to AI (or any reason) face two challenges: the inner challenge and the outer challenge. The outer challenge involves finding, of course, some new way to work and support yourself and your family. The inner challenge has to do with your thoughts. One of the Self-Defeating Beliefs behind a great deal of depression and anxiety is the Achievement Addiction, which means measuring your self-worth based on your work, your achievements, and so forth. This goes back to the Calvinist work ethic, as you know, which is one of the cornerstones of western civilization: you ARE what you DO. So if you do good things, you are a good person; but if you are not doing anything productive or constructive, you are worthless. So it is super easy to fall into a pattern of self-critical (and distorted) negative thoughts when you lose your work, including "I'm worthless," and "I'm letting my family down," and "this is my fault," or "it's unfair," and endless varieties of these themes that can trigger immediate depression, anxiety, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, anger, and more. So that is the inner battle. And that's where good psychotherapy CAN play a hugely important role, so you don't have to double your trouble and face a loss of your job plus the loss of your self-esteem and dignity at the same time. Thanks, and good luck with your article! Warmly, david We discussed a great deal more on the live podcast. Megan just emailed me again, and here's what she said: You're way ahead of me! The story hasn't been published yet. But you can plug our Axios AI+ newsletter https://www.axios.com/signup/ai-plus So, check it out! And thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

In this engaging discussion, Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing for the Feeling Great app, reveals insights from the 2025 listener survey. She shares that nearly 90% of respondents are tuning in to boost their emotional well-being, with a surprising 66% over 50 years old. Topics like anxiety, depression, and relationships top the list of concerns. Listeners appreciate practical techniques but offer constructive feedback on aspects like pacing and audio quality. Sevde also highlights a growing adoption of the Feeling Great app among U.S. fans.