Commercial Real Estate Investing From A-Z

How to evaluate and purchase a retail property by yourself? Where to get started? Jessica Malcomnson purchased two retail centers in the last couple of years and shares her lessons learned.You can read this entire interview here: bit.ly/3m59g6tHow did you purchase your first retail center?I started out with a single family investment. I then also picked up short term rentals, office, and a warehouse building. My dream was to own shopping centers, and in 2019 was when I really began the journey to invest in shopping centers. And I realized at that time that, because I had taken some time off, I knew that I had to get back in the business, my career had lost momentum from a leasing perspective. But I knew I had to get back in and start networking with the brokers who are selling the real estate that I'm looking to purchase. I started to get back in to attending networking functions, local ICSC events, just so I could get my goals out there and network with the brokers who are selling shopping center.How did you get your first few loans because a lot of lenders don't want to lend to people who don't have a full time job.That was one of the challenges. My first shopping center was going to be my biggest purchase to date, and the lending process was new to me. Originally when I started the process, the broker that I was working with, Joe Russo of Marcus and Millichap, was fabulous throughout the process and really held my hand in every step. I never at any point felt like he was doing this for financial gain, he referred me to a loan broker. They want to see what kind of experience do you have. And then they look at your financial statement.What was this first opportunity and what was the upside of it?Looking at photos of it, I was thinking that it's probably not a property that I want to purchase, but once we dove into the financials, I realized that this is something that should be of interest to me, I can't judge it just by looking at the photos. I decided to take a road trip to visit the property, I'm located in South Florida, the property is located in the Jacksonville market, that's roughly a four to five hour commute. I remember standing in the parking lot, sometime around two to three in the afternoon, seeing the amount of traffic passing by the property. It was also located at a lighted intersection, next to a McDonald's, across the street from a Walmart neighborhood market. I said, "Wow!", I was willing to pass on this property just based on photos because it's not "sexy real estate". But now I'm here standing in the parking lot looking around and noticing everything that's happening, and then I realized that this is something that I need to pull the trigger on.What are some of the cons of retail?One of the issues that came up, after I purchased my first shopping center was that the insurance company that I used sent an inspector out within the first couple of months. They do a full inspection of the property, and they come back with a list of items that they want taken care of in order to continue with the policy. And that was a big surprise, I never had that issue with any of the properties that I managed in the past. They wanted me to reroof the property because the roof was old, but it was also not leaking, so they accepted a seal coat of the roof. That was a huge expense that was not expected, when we didn't even have reserves yet.Jessica Malcolmsoninstagram.com/Jess_Malclinkedin.com/in/jessica-malcolmson-8569a322/--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

What are some top advices for an investor looking at growing their portfolio and taking it to the next level? Chris Rising, co-founder and CEO of Rising Realty Partners, shares his top insights on scaling, delegating and syndications.You can read this entire interview here: bit.ly/3lmpB6zYou have scaled your business to an incredible level. What are some of your top advice for an investor looking at growing their portfolio and taking it to the next level?On the syndication level, investors do expect a lot of hand-holding, and a lot of communication. And there’s a lot you can do digitally now that you weren’t able to do before. You’re really in two businesses, and maybe even three if you’re a property manager. You’re in the business of identifying real estate that you want to buy, you have the acquisition side, the operation side, and the investor relations, syndication business. That’s what our business looks like.On the operations side, we have asset managers who are more experienced in the real estate business, they have an MBA that oversees, maybe five assets or four assets. We have property managers, we have four or five people in the acquisitions team, and they are finding deals and underwriting deals. And then, we have about three or four people in our Investor Relations team. The mantra of my former mentor, or of my former boss, John Fishman used to say is, “You have to find them, mine them, and grind them.” And so, you have to be able to find the investors, you have to mine them, and then you’re grinding, you have to keep communicating and you have to keep growing.You can raise millions of dollars from one person if you keep communicating, even if deals don’t meet the return that we project. That doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. It doesn’t always happen the way we hope it would, but if you communicate with people, they feel like they’re part of your team and they understand the issues that you have. If you don’t communicate, you’ll never hear from that investor again.How you approach things when you want to delegate things? And when do you want to partner up with people, and what is your process for partnerships?I have enough scar tissue from bad partners, but I don't want someone to interpret bad partners as a bad human beings. When I say bad partners, it's just that our interests and/or expectations were not aligned, and it gets very difficult. The interesting thing about investing is that everybody's nice when things are good. When you lose a big tenant, or there might be a capital call, then not everybody is so nice. And that can also be within your partnership. I wish I could tell you that I have this wonderful method after so many years to identify partners, but I don't. What I do know is that if I'm talking to someone about being a parter, and if I can't make the decision right away, and I'm thinking about things, I usually say no. It's not always a scientific method.On delegation, the hardest thing you can do is to hire people. And the reason is, you really don't know what people are until they've been in the company for a while. We now make sure that they take tests to know if they can do their job. If you're going to be an acquisitions person, we're going to make you underwrite two or three buildings before we hire you. You have to have systems that allow you to use your time most effectively to make sure some things get done correctly.Chris Risingwww.chrisrising.comtwitter.com/chrisrisinginstagram.com/chrisrising--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

How to grow your retail portfolio and syndications? We will review the career of Aaron Zucker, founder and principal of Zucker Investment Group, they purchased 22 deals in the last 40 months through syndications. What does he look for when purchasing a retail property? What are some of the lessons learned so far?You can read this entire interview here: bit.ly/3w5RwO2How did you scale so fast? Let's go over your journey in the retail space and break it down to about every two months since you decided to start your company. In the beginning I moved into my parents basement with a six month old. That was interesting to say the least, with no portfolio and not much of a plan. There was a plan, it was just notes on an iPad. We bought our first property as a covered land play in Irving, Texas, we still own that property today. It's on the border, on a great location, and we are planning to monetize that property in some way shape or form over time. Until then we're enjoying the cash flow. I'm about to break out in hives thinking about that experience, I had $50,000 of my saved money non-refundable without all the equity figured out. I was raising $1.8 million, which I definitely didn't have, from anybody and everybody who told me they would be interested in buying real estate. It was a good litmus test to see who was actually going to be a real LP in that company and who was just talking, or maybe wasn't interested in that type of deal. It worked itself out, we got the equity resolved and bought a deal.Then some time went by and people were still feeling out whether or not Zig was real. I'm sure that's still certainly the case, we're still trying to build a reasonable reputation. But we were able to source a couple more opportunities pretty much exclusively through the brokerage community, off market. That's a testament to the quality of relationships that I had and still have and I'm always building upon which we couldn't be any more bullish on leveraging the brokerage community, and getting them excited about the fact that we not only allow but encourage them to invest in deals with us, and they appreciate the fact that we move extremely quickly. We're young and nimble and are certainly aggressively growing. The mantra about our organization is that we're super aggressive, and we are, but when we look in the microcosm of a specific acquisition, it's usually pretty conservative.I'm a one man band at this point, I continue doing my thing, posting on social media saying we're looking for deals, hitting the phones hard, following up with the brokerage community, calling sellers, whatever it takes to procure something. Then one day, we acquired a sexy site, which was a Lululemon, single tenant. It was a Lululemon condo, and a joint venture with a group called Konover South based out of South Florida.Months thereafter, we were able to unlock an off market Chipotle deal, at an aggressive cap rate in a great market in Orlando, we executed on a blend and extend with the tenant and then flipped out of it. We sold that property in March of 2020 before the pandemic was hitting, and there were a few other acquisitions that were a little bit more boring. Between the time that we bought and sold that Chipotle, and the disposition of that, was what put Zig 1.0 on the map and gave us some some credibility that our group was looking for, and then more most importantly, executing on value add retail deals with great tenants, Chipotle, Lululemon in very good markets like Cincinnati and Orlando.Aaron Zuckerinstagram.com/aaron.zuckerwww.zuckerinvestmentgroup.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

I’d like to share something that I started doing in 2020 that has been very useful for my real estate investment career.You can read this entire episode here: https://bit.ly/3se26jQIt's a very simple thing that I developed that has been very beneficial for me. It’s what I call the “Word of the Year”. It started in 2020 when I decided that that year I would focus on diversifying my investments because of the chaotic environment we were in, especially where I was in CA. My word for 2020 was “Diversification” and I decided that I had to diversify not to optimize for returns, but to decrease risks, well because the entire globe was shut down, nobody knew what would happen and that the country would print so much money. I ended up purchasing car washes, self storage, land, some crypto and some unique stocks I hadn’t thought of investing in before. The car washes and self storage did well, land we are a bit above what we invested, and the stocks initially went up and today they are down, so I am on the red at the moment. Looking back, it seems like I have achieved my goal of decreasing risks. I haven’t sold the stocks yet so that is TBD.For 2021 I realized that I was getting overwhelmed with doing everything myself, I knew that in order to expand my business I had to start putting processes in place and delegating as much as possible, so that I could focus on the important things and the bigger vision. I decided that my word of the year for 2021 would be “Delegation”. That year I started writing down everything I was doing, step by step, creating videos, making it as fool proof as possible, and hiring virtual assistants. Not all VA’s worked out, but I ended up with a couple of them that are working out quite well. You then start to see what each of their strengths are and you move tasks accordingly. In order for this to continue going smoothly throughout the years, the processes will have to be reviewed every 6 months to 1 year in order for us to make sure that the steps are up to date and that the videos are up to date. I will delegate that job to my VA :)Because you spend all year focused on the word of the year, it really engrains in your mind, so the words trickle down to the following years. For example in 2021 I invested in short term rentals. In 2022 I made a point looking at every task I was doing and to first ask myself: Can my VA do this? I am delegating more and more and finding more time. It can be literally anything from personal things all the way to calling the city planning department and finding out if this property is zoned for something we want to build there.The 2022 word just came to me in April, I am a part of a book club and the book we were reading The Almanack of Naval Ravikant and one of the quotes that stuck with me was “You will get rich by giving society what it wants but does not yet know how to get. At scale.” The way I made it work as far as real estate investing is, giving investors (when I syndicate) the absolute best service ever, they are our customers from a communications perspective, to great returns, to implementing technology in our investments as much as possible, and doing that "At Scale". Doing real estate at scale. With this mindset, everything that I am doing and thinking and looking at is, How am I going to be scaling this business?It has been wonderful, and I think it’s important to keep it a word of the year, or maybe every 6 months, but definitely not a monthly word because that may not really stay with you and you may not end up doing everything you want to get done during a month.Add me on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/steffboldSubscribe to our newsletter: www.montecarlorei.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

Are funds more beneficial than syndications for the investors? Are they better for the sponsors? How to approach investors when you have a deal? How to find a great partner in the industry? Brian Spear, Principal at Sunrise Capital shares his experience.You can read this entire interview here: https://bit.ly/3vjvOGaWhy do you recommend people creating a fund instead of syndications to be begin with?I wouldn’t say that, with absolute assurance, everyone should always create a fund, but I do believe that funds are better structure for both parties involved. Selfishly from the general partner side, it ‘s more flexibility of capital, it affords you the opportunity to be able to move at a moment’s notice. If every time that we stumbled upon a given transaction that we wanted to acquire, we had to roll out a brand new syndication. Then we would miss some deals, some opportunities in a hot market such as this, when you have to compete against other people. The brokers want to know where your equity derives. If you don’t have the ability to say, “I’ve eight figures sitting in the bank right now and I can close on this next week if we really need it to”, then you’re going to be at a little bit of a disadvantage, especially in this crazy environment where there’s so much capital chasing deals. The fund affords you to have that capital ready when those opportunities arise so that you can act and move faster, that expediency helps tremendously. Funds will afford you to provide outsized IRRs as well. Depending upon the scale of your respective fund, you may be able to garner some lines of credit, which would afford you to be selective about when you bring capital in and leveraging that provides your investors with a higher internal rate of return. In addition, you get diversification across the various different assets.I’m assuming that you recommend people doing a syndication first, because it’s probably very hard to raise for a fund first?Yes, you want to use your own capital to go out and prove the business model. To have a simple, scalable, and repeatable one prior to rolling out a fund. It would be imprudent to just launch a fund from scratch, you need to go out and prove yourself first. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I do think that ultimately, the fund structure provides more benefits for everybody involved. I would pose to you that’s why the likes of Blackstone, Carlyle Group, Apollo, all the guys on Wall Street, don’t run out and do individual deals specific syndications. They do fund structures without fail for all those reasons.How do you approach an investor when you have a deal?The question of how you approach investors when you have a deal begins well in advance of when you have a deal. You’re never going to reach out to somebody, and hard sell them on wiring you $100,000 one day after you have a deal, come under contract, and all of a sudden need to scramble to get that capital. What you need to do is develop that relationship with the prospect or the potential investor many days, weeks, months or years in advance of that opportunity arising. If you intend to scale actively in this business, you’re going to need to build a substantive Rolodex. And you’re going to need to begin providing that Rolodex with valuable content that provides them with insight and knowledge that you are an authority in your industry and are worthy of their time, energy, effort, and ultimately capital, to partner with you on deals as you progress.Brian Spearwww.parkinglotprofits.comwww.sunrisecapitalinvestors.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

Brian Spear, Principal at Sunrise Capital, discusses the benefits of parking lot investing, including high demand, prime locations, and low maintenance costs. He explores the unique appeal of parking lots as a niche investment with potential for sustained cash flow and land value growth. Challenges such as scalability and financing options are also touched upon in the podcast.

How to raise a $16M syndication in one day? What are the major things they wish they knew earlier in their careers? Mark Shuler and Josh Welch, founders of SGRE Investments and Three Pillars Capital share how they got there in their real estate syndication career.You can read this entire episode here: https://bit.ly/3Ec87SXHow were you able to raise $16 million in one day? How did you arrive at that level?I'm not sure we know how we did it, but we managed to do this crazy raise. We had done a lot of preparatory legwork, we both have a very deep database of investors, we've done enough deals now that we have a lot of frequent fliers. As you do a deal, your database continues to grow as people talk to friends and family. We just teed it up, we do a very detailed deal deck and offering memorandum. We do a lot of preparatory emails, getting people in the space to understand that the deal is coming. At this point we're over raising on every deal, everybody knows that we're over raising so they're committing fast and early on the deals, and it's a record for us. At one point, we were raising a million dollars an hour for eight straight hours. We shut it down in 24 hours, Josh was getting pummeled with emails and phone calls.It seems like you guys are good partners, how did you guys meet? How did this partnership come about?Mark and I have been working together for years now, we've done several deals together. We crossed paths, and decided to team up and go on this one, and to the next and we just kept the relationship going.What are some of the things that you both wish you knew earlier in your career to expedite things for other people that you think that is important for them to know today?Something I wish I would have known from day one is how important processes are to the operations and how important the operations are in general. There's a huge misconception in this industry, that if you can raise money you can be a sponsor, and go run a deal. The more of those you can do, the more successful you'll be. But the reality is, if you don't know how to operate these assets, day over day, year over year, they can quickly go south on you. A lot of people in this market have gotten bailed out by rising prices. There will be a day where prices will flatline and stabilize, maybe even go down a little bit. Those who pay top dollar for something that is not running well will not get bailed out. The biggest lesson is that I could have put more emphasis on in the beginning is how to get a better process in your operations.Either get a mentor, get educated, or get a master's degree. You have to build on your knowledge base, though experience is a great teacher, but some of it you just have to sit down and read. It's not what I wish I had done, it's what I did. I feel like I propelled my career forward by 10 years by doing that. The other thing that you have to learn in this industry is how to raise money properly. I joined a mastermind to help me with that and educate me, in one year I probably shave 10 years off my learning curve. To figure out how to raise money effectively is the fruit of my labor from last year. If you figure out the process of raising money properly, you can raise a lot of money. That can be with anything in this industry, or with running a private equity firm, processes everything. www.sgreinvestments.commark@sgreinvestments.comwww.threepillarscapitalgroup.comjoshuaw@threepillarscapitalgroup.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

Why should you invest in the metaverse? Which metaverses should you invest in today? Is Decentraland more democratic and Meta a socialist metaverse? How should you start educating yourself? Dave Carr, head of Business Development at Parcel, who also previously worked at Decentraland, one of the most popular metaverses, shares his knowledge.What would you invest in today?I love the idea of the metaverse, that it enables creators to do all sorts of fantastic things and own their creations as well, for musicians to not have to get their works through a platform that somebody else owns and takes the vast majority of their money from. For me, it's about virtual worlds that are enabling creators to get their work out there, but are also incentivizing users to come and use the space, and deriving benefits from that. If you look at it at a very specific level, the NFT's that have come out this year, all of the different avatars, the different projects have sold for an extraordinary amount of money. A lot of these NFT projects have just disappeared or gone very quiet, some of them have failed, the ones that survive are the ones that are able to create a really strong community around them, that have shown a very clear roadmap of where they are headed, and how the benefits will be rolled out to people who own it.It's the same in terms of physical investments, you buy a piece of land in an area that is going to develop and be valuable to the people who move into that space. A golden rule is to avoid putting all of your eggs in one basket.Is it be safe to assume that places like The Sandbox and Decentraland are more democratic and Meta would be a more socialist world?In terms of control, you could say that Decentraland and The Sandbox are more democratic. That's a whole other discussion in terms of the governance structures of these open virtual worlds in the open metaverse because even the governance structure is still a test case if you like. But in terms of Meta, I'd be very surprised if they handed over control to the users, but I don't see that happening. Facebook, has been incredibly successful because you are the product and your data has been monetized. Some people are very happy with that, it's absolutely fine. It'll be a different experience to the decentralized worlds, I don't see it as a bad thing for Meta to be entering into this space because it educates people to what else is out there. The people can make the decision as to which experience they want to devote most of their time to.Anybody could come up with the next Decentraland and they can all create these worlds, tell us why we should invest in these worlds?Yes, anybody could come along and create a new Decentraland, and try to replicate this and potentially do it better. The benefit that Decentraland has is that it has the lead time it has been doing this longer. The Sandbox is not fully live yet, but it has been doing the backend development work, they will get it right when it launches, and be sure that it is working properly. Similar to Decentraland and other virtual worlds, they have the runs on the board, they have the brand partnerships in place, they have the content community familiar with it, they have the architects in their building, and they've been developing those people as well and supporting them. If things go according to plan then they will continue to be one of the more established worlds. They've made the mistakes that everybody is yet to make, there's a lot of benefit to be had in being first to market.Dave Carrtwitter.com/parcelnftwww.meetparcel.comdave@meetparcel.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

What is the metaverse in very basic terms? Why should someone invest in land in the metaverse? Can you be a developer in the metaverse? How to monetize it? Dave Carr, head of Business Development at Parcel, who also previously worked at Decentraland, one of the most popular metaverses, shares his knowledge.What is the metaverse, from someone that would not even know it is to begin with?The Metaverse is a more immersive version of the internet. In the very early days of the internet, you would go to very specific websites, now it’s very much a seamless part of our lives. But you would visit these destinations, and you would do things and then you would go to another website. I think we can look at the current virtual worlds as these new versions of these websites that you used to visit. If we take an example of Decentraland, you can access it via your regular browser. There are other virtual worlds that you can access from a desktop client, like an app that you will put onto your computer, there are some worlds that you can access through your virtual reality headset and you are effectively walking, or your avatar is, and you look around and see buildings that have been created. You're able to play games, it's what we say is an immersive version of the internet. Then brands and organizations can have an existence and a profile in these virtual worlds, whereby because of its interactive nature, you can interact with brands. So what that means for virtual real estate is that if I am walking through a virtual world, I'm walking around on land that can be purchased and can be used to create a shopfront, a game world, an art gallery, all sorts of different mechanisms and experiences for the people who are logging in and walking around these worlds to interact with an experience.I get the part that we don't have to deal with tenants, we don't have to deal with leaky roofs or cleaning up after anything, you can lease the property out. Is there anything else that an investor would be able to monetize within the metaverse that we haven't covered yet?I think anybody looking to buy land in a virtual world really needs to think about the long game. Let's think about it like a video game, you can be a console owner, like you can own PlayStation, an Xbox, or a Nintendo, but if you don't have the games and the experiences on that console, it's just a box. I think you can probably think about this the same way with virtual worlds, you can build these worlds, you can sell the land. But if there is no value being added to these properties, in the form of festivals or games that people enjoy playing, or content that makes people want to visit and also come back and revisit then the land will not have the value. You can rent that land so there can be a rental income, there are also things like fractionalization that could potentially divide up the land and sell off those individual parcels.Does that mean that I could build a multifamily apartment complex in the metaverse, or condos and sell each unit?I imagine that's entirely possible and that comes down to fractionalization. If you look at some of the things that are coming up with just digital art NFT's, whereby a group of people individually can't afford to buy this one piece of art so they pull their resources, they then identify those pieces that they each want to have shared ownership. And just as a developer puts up a building, then each of those different apartments are bought by different people, and they form that corporation that ends up managing the building, then I think there's no reason why this couldn't happen in a virtual world.Dave Carrtwitter.com/parcelnftwww.meetparcel.comdave@meetparcel.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support

Imagine building a $100M real estate company, losing it all, and then going to jail on top of it? That's what happened with Mike Morawski, he was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison, charged on wire and mail fraud after transferring funds from one syndication to another without notifying his investors. He discusses his top 5 lessons learned.You can read this entire interview here: https://bit.ly/3KQJYU1Let’s start with the growing too fast mistake. How slow is ideal for you and why?I catch myself sometimes wanting to go do something else, I have to put a pause and not look at deals because we're underwriting a whole bunch of deals right now. We're not willing to pull the trigger yet because we're waiting to get a little bit more down the road with stabilization, we bought our first deal, what we're doing is pausing a little bit. We're doing capital improvements, turning some units, we will get 25-30% of the complex turned, then we’ll go do the next one once stabilization processes are underway. Whenever you walk into something, just walk cautiously. I think too often we walk into things with so much excitement, so much vigor and energy that we don't pay attention to the little things, take the blinders off and use your peripheral vision.Moving on to the lawyer issue, if I were to ask a lawyer for some advice, I would follow their advice and think that I'm doing the right thing. Have you implemented something around that?Yes, I became the question guy, people say that I ask way too many questions, and I say it's because I'm curious and I also wanted to make sure that I'm safe. I don't think we should ever be afraid to ask questions, no matter how big or small, and we need to fact check. Just like when a doctor said you had cancer, and you didn't think you had it, you go get a second opinion. I think it's the same thing in the legal profession.When you're held at that higher standard, because you raise capital, or you have somebody else's best interest at hand, you're the fiduciary, and you need to tell them everything. Transparency and communication is more important today. You should have more investor calls, newsletters, written documentation, pictures, and things that the investor can't ever push back and say, I didn’t know this. When occupancy drops, call your investors and let them know what you're trying to do to solve the problem.In terms of vacancy, what was it before and what ended up being during the crisis?We would buy properties that were typically low 80s and high 70s in occupancy, people didn't want value add back then. Everybody loves it today. So we would buy these value add deals, and we would turn them around. We actually had occupancy rates in the high 80s, low 90s, 92% is where we averaged. When 2008 rolled around, occupancies dropped back into the high 70s. And it was overnight, and some properties went even further than that. I owned a deal in Anderson, Indiana, when we bought that property it was rated on a list out of of 275 by Money Magazine, the number three city in the country to raise a family, we bought that property, and within nine months it was fourth from the bottom, it was 281. Anderson was in the automobile industry, and those were one of the industries that got hit the hardest in 2008, automotive and transportation. We were heavily invested in markets like that. As a result, businesses went out of business, and people lost their jobs and had to move. I had a property manager call me on a Monday morning from this property in Anderson in tears, saying, I have 30 moving trucks in the parking lot this morning. How do you weather that storm? This goes back to being under capitalized, we didn't have enough money.Mike Morawskiwww.mycoreintentions.com--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/best-commercial-retail-real-estate-investing-advice-ever/support