The Better Samaritan Podcast

What’s on the horizon for foreign aid and humanitarian response strategies, especially in light of ongoing funding cuts to foreign aid around the world? In this episode, Dr. Eric James, founder of Field Ready, shares how localization can make humanitarian aid faster, cheaper, and more effective. We talk about reducing dependency on outside supply chains and how putting tools directly into the hands of local community members builds long-term resilience. Dr. James also tackles the harsh realities facing the aid sector today, including shrinking budgets and the rise of anti-intellectualism. This episode reflects both on what still needs to change and where to look for opportunities for innovation in instability. Listen in to learn more: 11:08 - Rutger Bregman on tax avoidance and social impact 18:14 - 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey   Read More from Dr. Eric James: Managing Humanitarian Relief Articles and other books Eric’s post-show recommendation - Sign up for regular summaries of changes in the humanitarian landscape from the International Humanitarian Studies Association Field Ready   About Dr. Eric James Eric is an international aid worker, social entrepreneur, and educator with over 25 years of experience in humanitarian work. He has worked extensively with various NGOs and the UN in disaster and conflict zones around the world. He currently teaches in various academic contexts, leads his nonprofit Field Ready, and works on innovative ventures focused on humanitarian response, leadership, and strategy. Dr. James is also the author of several books about foreign aid, including the widely used guide, Managing Humanitarian Relief. ------------ This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Veteran humanitarian leader Roger Sandberg joins us to discuss how NGOs can lead effectively in the midst of funding cuts and uncertainty. As political shifts tighten budgets, the gap between global needs and available resources continues to widen. Roger shares practical strategies for assessing risk, strengthening communication within teams, and re-imagining sources of funding. We dive into crisis leadership—why financial clarity, quick decisions, and lessons-learned reviews matter more than ever. Roger also emphasizes the importance of donor diversity and the risks associated with relying too heavily on a single funding source. This episode offers honest insight and practical advice for any leader navigating change in the aid sector. Listen in to learn more :  4:44 - 10 Steps to Stabilize, Adapt, and Lead Through Uncertainty 31:31 - Study on the role in humility within humanitarian leadership   Read More from Roger on this topic:   NGO Leaders: 10 Steps to Stabilize, Adapt, and Lead Through Uncertainty   Crisis Leadership: Strategic Planning in the Age of Aid Disruptions   Opinion: The US aid crisis is an opportunity for outcome-based finance   The Three-Legged Stool of Humanitarian Action…Did it just break?   About Roger Sandberg Roger is a global humanitarian leader, strategist, and consultant with over two decades of experience leading emergency response and organizational transformation in crisis-affected regions. He advises international NGOs, foundations, and philanthropic networks on leadership, localization, and humanitarian response models that center community agency and sustainability. ------------ This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when humanitarian work collides with political upheaval and shifting policies? In this episode, Rebekah Teuscher and Michaela Dowen, graduates of the Humanitarian and Disaster Leadership program, share what it’s like to navigate being young humanitarian professionals in this time of uncertainty. They offer honest insight into the challenges and realities humanitarian workers face, and share what’s kept them going. We talk about the importance of clear communication, collaboration across organizations, and staying grounded when things feel chaotic. Rebekah and Michaela also reflect on finding purpose in unexpected roles and the need for good support systems to sustain their work. Their reflections are honest, practical, and rooted in the real-world complexity of an ever-changing work sector. Listen in to learn more :   (11:24) Overview article of refugee resettlement history in the US: Why does Trump’s executive order about refugees matter? Read More from Rebekah “Lord, but When Did We See You?” Harrisburg area refugees share their stories, perspectives amidst shifting immigration landscape     Bios: Over the past six years, Rebekah Teuscher has worked with refugees in various contexts in the U.S. and internationally. In addition to her work for refugees and migrant populations, she is passionate about trauma-informed care and community development. She now lives and serves in Lithuania, working with international university student populations.   Michaela Dowen is a humanitarian professional who has spent the last four years in the field of forced migration. With experience in local, national, and international spaces, she is passionate about advocating for this especially vulnerable demographic through storytelling and public education. —-- The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do federal and foreign aid cuts impact anti-trafficking work, both directly and indirectly? In this episode, we talk with Rev. Dr. Sandra Morgan from Vanguard University about how global aid and domestic budget cuts are affecting efforts to fight human trafficking around the world, both individually and systemically. Dr. Morgan shares how collaboration, trust, and elevating smaller organizations are key to a sustained fight against trafficking, and how to foster these practices. We also discuss how churches can step in to fill critical gaps and why training the next generation of advocates matters. It’s an honest look at the challenges, and where hope and resilience are still showing up. Listen in to learn more :  23:54 - Tool to Evaluate Collaboration: Visible Network Labs 26:09 - To Change the World by James Davison Hunter 27:59 - Anti-Human Trafficking Certificate at  Vanguard   More from Dr. Morgan: Ending Human Trafficking Podcast  Ending Human Trafficking: A Handbook of Strategies for the Church Today Global Center for Women and Justice at Vanderbilt University     BIO: Rev. Dr. Sandra Morgan is Executive Director of Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice (GCWJ). As an educator, a nurse, and an ordained Assemblies of God minister, she is recognized globally for her expertise in combating human trafficking and working to end violence against women and children. She hosts the Ending Human Trafficking podcast and is co-author of IVP’s Ending Human Trafficking: A Handbook of Strategies for the Church Today.    —-- The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when churches, governments, and communities work together across differences in opinion for the common good? In this episode, Dr. Walter Kim, President of the National Association of Evangelicals, joins us to talk about how different parts of the evangelical church are responding to shifts in humanitarian aid and funding, and why these varied responses matter. We dig into the Biblical precedent for and history of public-private partnerships, the importance of government support, and how different Christian views of society and culture impact how churches engage with humanitarian work. Dr. Kim brings biblical insight, historical context, and practical wisdom for how the Church can stay grounded in compassion while navigating complexity. Read more from Walter Kim and the NAE: National Association of Evangelicals Calls for Renewed Commitment to Stewardship, Global Compassion Compassion for a World in Need Podcast: Difficult Conversations Bio: Walter Kim  Walter Kim is President of the National Association of Evangelicals. He earned his PhD at Harvard, was a chaplain at Yale, and has served in diverse pastoral ministries. He is on the board of World Relief, Christianity Today, and The Salvation Army, USA. He is often sought out for his theological and cultural commentary on issues facing the church and society.   —-- The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do advocacy and policy help combat child hunger and malnutrition, both in the U.S. and around the world? In this episode, Rev. Eugene Cho, president and CEO of Bread for the World, joins us to talk about what’s needed to tackle food insecurity around the world, what’s working, what’s not, and why surface-level solutions won’t cut it. We talk about how recent federal and foreign aid cuts are contributing to hunger and food insecurity for millions of children in food-insecure regions like South Sudan, and why proposals to cut SNAP could be similarly harmful for low-income American families. Reverend Cho offers the challenge to think bigger than politics and to engage with policy through the lens of faith and justice. This isn’t about charity—it’s about using our voices and influence to make lasting change. Whether you're new to advocacy or deeply involved, this conversation will challenge and encourage you. Listen in to learn more :  (2:44) - check out bread.org (12:04) - Sources say 86% cut to international programs and budget (15:13) - proposed $290 billion cut to the SNAP program (36:13) - Book: Thou Shalt Not Be A Jerk (36:51) - Partner with Bread for the World Read more from Eugene Cho/Bread for the World: Statement: “Skinny” Budget Would Increase Hunger and Famine and put U.S. National Security at Risk Article: My Easter Reflection on Hope and Hunger Article: Christian Leaders Hold “A Prayer Vigil for Foreign Aid” Article: I Experienced a Culture Shock Coming to the US—But It Led to an Unexpected Calling Book: Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: A Christian’s Guide to Engaging Politics Book: Overrated: Are We More in Love with the Idea of Changing the World Than Actually Changing the World?   About Rev. Eugene Cho Rev. Eugene Cho is President/CEO of Bread for the World, a nationwide Christian advocacy organization that educates on hunger and equips people to advocate for policies to end it in the U.S. and around the world. He preaches and speaks about Bread’s mission to end hunger, justice, and leadership at the intersection of faith and public life. Eugene is Co-Chair of the U.S. Nutrition CEO Council and has been recognized by the Department of Homeland Security as an Outstanding American by Choice. Before joining Bread, Eugene pastored local churches for nearly thirty years. ------------ This episode was produced by Wildfire Creative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when humanitarian aid gets pulled, but the needs don’t stop? In this episode, we talk with Dr. Beth Stuebing, a missionary surgeon in Malawi with the Christian Health Service Corps. She shares what it’s like on the front lines of healthcare when funding disappears—and why faith-based organizations working on the ground can’t do it alone. You’ll hear stories of courage and sacrifice, including one from a local surgeon, Dr. Mumba, who literally gave his own blood to save a patient. We also discuss how local churches are stepping up, the power of partnerships, and why global health needs more attention from governments and Christian communities alike. Beth also shares her journey from growing up in Zambia to mentoring young doctors in Malawi. It’s a conversation about hope, grit, and what it means to show up when it counts. Explore More of Beth's Writing:   Jesus fed the 5,000, but the people of God can't fill the chasm left by USAID: Jesus fed the 5,000, but the people of God can't fill the chasm left by USAID Why the World Needs Africa to Be Healthy: Why the World Needs Africa to Be Healthy | Think Global Health USAID aid freeze triggers health care crisis in Africa:  USAID aid freeze triggers health care crisis in Africa Beth’s Missions Sending Organization: Beth Stuebing & Ben Adams - Christian Health Service Corps Beth and Ben’s Ministry Facebook Page About Dr. Stuebing –  Dr. Beth Stuebing is a missionary surgeon with Christian Health Service Corps and lives in Lilongwe, Malawi, with her husband and three children. She graduated from Wheaton College in 2000. Before moving to Malawi, Beth spent 9 years as a trauma surgeon and ICU doctor in Washington.   ------------ This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when college students decide to take action on global issues? In this episode, we sit down with three undergraduate students from Wheaton College - Alexis, Jonathan, and Milan - who have each been involved in a larger student-led movement advocating for Christ-like compassion and global justice. Over 150 students from Wheaton’s campus have gotten involved, driven by their faith and a shared belief that Christians are called to care for our neighbors both next door and halfway across the world.  We talk about the real impact of aid cuts, especially in places like South Africa, and why this matters for the Church. These students bring heart, honesty, and conviction as they share what it has looked like to pray, educate, and take action right where they are. From 24-hour prayer tents to writing letters to representatives, they show us how small steps can lead to big change—and how we all have a role to play in loving our neighbors around the world. Links- The Humanitarian Podcast started by Milan ------------ This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode, we talk with Jenny Dyer, founder of the 2030 Collaborative, about her involvement raising awareness for HIV/AIDS - from working with Bono and the ONE Campaign to championing global health in Washington and beyond. Jenny breaks down how U.S. programs like PEPFAR have saved millions of lives—and why hardly anyone talks about it anymore. We dig into what’s at risk as funding dries up and how churches can step in to advocate. If you’re curious about how faith communities can make a real impact in global health, this episode is packed with practical ways to speak up and get involved.  LINKS -  (10:08) Haunted by Hopelessness: 12 Zambians share their stories as HIV drugs run out - Haunted by hopelessness: 12 Zambians share their stories as HIV drugs run out  (15:57) Find your senators to contact - senate.gov (17:04) Contact your legislators through One.org and receive a template of what to say - one.org   Read More From Jenny Dyer: The aWAKE Project : Uniting against the African AIDS Crisis The Mother and Child Project: Raising Our Voices for Health and Hope The End of Hunger: Renewed Hope for Feeding the World     About Jenny Dyer - Jenny is the founder of The 2030 Collaborative, which focuses on promoting awareness, providing education, and encouraging advocacy for the 17 U.N. Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). She also directs the Faith-Based Coalition for the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria. She has previously worked for former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to mobilize advocacy for PEPFAR and other HIV/AIDS intervention from Christian leaders, and written many different pieces on the intersection between religion and global health. She lives in Franklin, Tennessee with her husband, John, and two boys, Rhys and Oliver. —-- The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Get your application fee to the HDL M.A. program waived with code TBS25. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We thi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we sit down with Michael Cerna from the Accord Network and Elli Oswald from the Faith to Action Initiative to talk about what happens when faith-based nonprofits face major funding cuts.  Spoiler: it’s tough.  From staff layoffs to shifting American opinions on international engagement, Michael and Elli share the hard realities—and the hope. We get real about working with the government, why accountability matters, and how churches can step up.  Plus, Michael and Elli share their perspectives on how young leaders and global communities are sparking change in powerful ways. This episode is honest, eye-opening, and full of practical wisdom for anyone in the nonprofit or ministry world. Read more from Michael Cerna/The ACCORD network: Michael Cerna | Faith, Funding, and Foreign Aid:  https://www.nae.org/michael-cerna-relief-development-faith-government-funding-usaid-todays-conversation-podcast/ Read about how one organization in Faith to Action's network is being impacted: https://wng.org/roundups/the-usaid-closure-leaves-a-vacuum-what-will-fill-it-1740694625  Bio: Michael Cerna: Michael Cerna serves as CEO of Accord Network, a coalition of over 150 Christian organizations dedicated to global relief and development. Prior to leading the Accord Network, Cerna served in strategic and partnership roles at HOPE International, Mission: Hope, and Renew Outreach. He also previously worked at McKinsey & Company and holds a master’s degree in International Management from Kennesaw State University.   Elli Oswald: Elli Oswald is the Executive Director of the Faith to Action Initiative. Before this role, she served as Director of Mission and Outreach at Bethany Community Church in Seattle. Elli also served as the Children in Crisis Research and Communications Coordinator for World Vision International’s Child Development and Rights Technical Team, specializing in community-based care for children deprived of parental care. She has a B.A. from Pepperdine University and an M.A. in Cross Cultural Studies and International Development from Fuller Theological Seminary. —-- The Better Samaritan podcast is produced by the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, which offers an M.A. in Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership and a Trauma Certificate. To learn more and apply, visit our website. Jamie Aten, Ph.D., and Kent Annan, M.Div., co-direct the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College and are the Co-Founders of Spiritual First Aid. This episode was produced by WildfireCreative  Theme Song: “Turning Over Tables” by The Brilliance Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Stitcher | RSS Follow us on Twitter:  @drjamieaten |  @kentannan Follow on Instagram: @wildfirecreativeco @wheaton_hdi (Note to the listener: In this podcast, sometimes we'll host Evangelicals, and sometimes we won't. Learning how to “do good, better” involves listening to many perspectives with different insights and understanding. Sometimes, it will make us uncomfortable; sometimes, we'll agree, and sometimes, we won't. We think that's good. We want to listen for correction–especially in our blind spots.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices