Pushing The Limits

Boomer Anderson hails from the USA but has lived and worked in many countries and cities from Wall St to Singapore to Amsterdam among others. After graduating from the University of Minnesota, Boomer pursued his first love (finance) through a successful career in investment banking in New York and Singapore. Always desiring to learn more and pursue his second love (health), Boomer left finance to found a successful clinical practice leveraging data to help entrepreneurs and executives achieve better performance through health. He continues to pursue his joint loves of health and finance through early-stage startup investments, advisory roles, and public speaking. In his free time, Boomer enjoys experimenting with the latest in performance technologies, travel, adventure, and spending time with his girlfriend. He had a  fast-paced career in investment banking and venture capital. Helping countries and companies raise funding. He lived life in the extreme both in the high flying career world and in his sporting endeavors, doing an extreme amount of traveling and long days and living on very little sleep thinking he was bulletproof until a serious heart condition stopped him in his tracks at age 30.   Since then he pivoted and in his quest to heal himself has become over the years an expert in health optimization, biohacking, data tracking in relation to health and much more. He shares his deep insights into the exciting world of the quantified self, the power of data and testing for health and the change in paradigm that is happening in the world on biotech. Boomer is also a podcaster and has a top 100 rated show many countries. His show is Decoding Superhuman and you can reach out to Boomer at www.decodingsuperhuman.com and follow him on instagram and facebook.   He is also partner in Dr Ted Achacoso's www.homehope.org which is a complete new system looking at the holobiont and metbolome for health optimisation.     We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   www.vielight.com   Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function.  To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com     For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com    For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!  No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Develop mental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.    For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/   Transcript of the Podcast:    Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Once again to pushing the limits before we get underway with this week's very special guests. Just like to remind you, if you don't mind doing me a big favor and giving this podcast or writing a review on iTunes, that would be hugely, hugely helpful and helps us show where the ratings and exposure so we get exposed to more people and more listeners so we can get our message out there. So really, really appreciate your help. If you want help also with your running or with your health optimization or you want help with mental toughness coaching, check out all our flagship programs over at Lisatamati.com. Hit the programs button and you'll be able to find out all about our running hot coaching, our epigenetics in the mental toughness mindset you e-course right now. Today's guest is sitting in Amsterdam and he is an incredible person who has a background actually in investment banking and finance. But has now done a completely one 80 pivot into health optimization. Someone who has a, she has a lot of interests with what I do, and I know you're going to get a huge amount of value out of this interview. So without further ado, over to boomer Anderson. Speaker 3: (01:25) Well, everybody needs to tell me to here and welcome back once again to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you with us again. I'm super excited for today's interview. I have a very, very special guest who is the host of something called a podcast called decoding superhuman. And you guys have to check this out. This gentleman is sitting in Amsterdam, which is a first for me. I haven't had anyone from my son's name. He's actually so welcome to the show boomer Anderson. Welcome. I'd really Speaker 4: (01:54) Release a thank you for having me. This is an absolute pleasure. Speaker 3: (01:58) Oh, it's so cool to have you. So boomer and I have connected other, the love for podcasting really and through an audio engineer of all things, Roy Roy, Roy helped me and taught me. And Burma is, it does stuff that's right up my alley. So very much a expert on human performance and in many seats is other word. And his, a podcast as a seed called decoding superhuman and has a very interesting backstory as well. So boomer, let's start with a little bit about we from who you are and your you know, your, your career before you got into this. Speaker 4: (02:40) Oh, how long did we actually have here? So let's start with the beginning, right. And then, because you mentioned that I love all things performance just like you do. And that's absolutely the truth. And it started from a very young age, you know, growing up I had the benefits of the son of a yoga teacher on one side and then a finance professional on the other. So I had this kind of eats me at East meets West growing up experience. And you know, I was been obsessed with performance from a young age, whether it was academics or athletics, it was always, how do you push it to that next level. We can talk about it later, but sometimes that hurts when you push it to the next level. Speaker 4: (03:25) And you know, that next level led me to go to college in Minnesota and then eventually work on wall street after two years in New York and I, I was in New York at times that people don't want to be in New York. Right? Like my first day on wall street was the day that Lehman brothers filed for bankruptcy and AIG gets nationalized. Oh my gosh. Hell of a first day. Right. And so my career path kind of changed forever. And after two years I've moved to Singapore where at a very young age I became the head of a, a deck capital market stuff covering South Asia. And so my responsibility was 14 different countries helping companies and governments raise money across the world. Yeah. That all sounds amazing and glamorous. And I had the pleasure of traveling to 40 countries over the course of four years, basically living on a plane. Speaker 4: (04:19) And that entire time I thought I was healthy. Right. Because if you read men's health, have you read whatever it is, whatever those fitness magazines are, they tell you that diet and exercise are all that really matters. And you know, I was one of these guys who not following whatever the diet your was, I've probably tried them all with the exception of maybe being vegan. And then I was also very into a sport called CrossFit. And I pushed, I know there's a very, there's a very strong theme that I think reverberates in both of our lives is that I pushed everything to the extreme, whether that be work, whether that be play, whether that be exercise. And so, you know, I was the guy who was like, I'm going to work this investment banking career, get you know, from the age of 18 to 30 is getting four to six hours of sleep per night. Speaker 4: (05:10) And I'm going to try and work out like rich Froning because I had a goal of beating rich Froning and the CrossFit games delusional goal, but it was a goal. And so, you know, go bigger, go home. Right? And so this eventually has a wall that I hit, but I've had, and we can talk about that wall here in a second, but there's this constant reverberating theme of trying to elevate performance. I now consider it my mission in life to elevate the human experience through health. And I look at that through a number of different lenses and a result of the learnings on the journey, so to speak come up with a fairly elegant system in order to help others do this. Wow, Speaker 3: (05:58) That's a, that's a nutshell. A pretty amazing life. So investment banker in the finance world, I mean, that's a dream for many young people to get into that, that world was, is just idea for us. A short second. Did that burn the hell out of you? You know, physically, obviously traveling all the time, but also the meeting side and the pressure in that game. Speaker 4: (06:23) Sure. So let's talk about that because most of the rumors you hear about investment banking or Kennedy true. When I started in investment banking, I lived mainly in the office. And frankly that changed over time. But it was more, I lived with a cell phone instead of in the office. And you know, I've spent many a night where it was okay, you worked the entire night, go home, change your clothes and come back into work the next morning. I've slept in a desk. I've done many times where I've gone into this is actually embarrassing Lisa, and I can't believe I'm telling you this story. But like I went into, I went into the bathroom, put my legs up and fell asleep to get 20 minutes of sleep. Right? And so just like in those kind of extremes produce extreme results. And so you know, you, he pushed your body to the limits. Speaker 4: (07:19) And of course as you get more and more senior, there's the stress of you have to meet a budget, you have to worry about a coworker stabbing you in the back. All of these things. But the experience itself of, and I was helping companies and governments raise money and experience of itself, of being able to look at how a country funds itself and saying like, Hey, I had an impact on that. And there's one or two countries that I can point to and say I had a significant impact on how they fund themselves even till today is pretty rewarding. But yeah, the stress is ridiculous. And so let's talk about some of the warning signs, so to speak. Right. And so one of those warning signs I collapsed in my shower just from exhaustion. I've been to the hospital more than once for exhaustion. Speaker 4: (08:11) I've had parasites. I was traveling to places like India, Bangladesh, all these things, parasites. I was vomiting. I was, you know, falling asleep at my desk. All of this stuff. I was doing three, four and a half hour red eyes from DACA and going into the office the next day. All of these things you can add, you can look at it and say like, Hey, any, any person with any reasonable level of intelligence could have looked at this from afar and said, at some point this kid is going to go head first into a wall. But that kid wasn't willing to admit it. Yeah. Speaker 3: (08:48) Well you live in, you live in that world where it's expected, this hard performance is, you know, 24, seven, the labels of your anxiety must've terrific. Speaker 4: (09:00) Terrific. Yeah. And I've you know, it's something that I talk about openly now and it took me awhile to talk about it openly, but I've had issues with panic attacks you know, getting in front of people and you know, starting to sweat for no apparent reason. Just extreme nerves at an occasion. And then when you start breaking your circadian rhythm, cause I was traveling time zones all the time, right? Like I was doing, I went to Europe one year, 18 times from Singapore. So that's that's already a six to seven hour time change. I went to from Asia to the U S six to seven times in one year as well. And so you're talking about like my circadian rhythm was not existing. And so like I developed social anxiety, I developed anxiety around people and it just became this one big ball of anxiety. Speaker 4: (09:52) And you just kind of look at different ways to deal with it. You know, at that point I was self-medicating mainly through alcohol, but it's so medicated through alcohol and CrossFit, you know, I was just looking for anything to escape. Right. And, and so like, I had this brilliant job and I, I don't think I appreciated it at the time, but I got this brilliant job and I was like just stressed. And you know, there were times when I was younger in New York where I just walked down on the street and pray that like a taxi cab would hit me because I would get some sleep in a hospital. Right. And it's just, yeah, I guess to answer your question, yes, Speaker 3: (10:34) It's a little bit stressful. It's a little bit stressful and to show up and, you know approach you for being open about this because this is the, this is what my podcast is known for and we tell the real shit here and we died and I've had panic attacks, I've had anxiety, I've had depression, I've, you know, been in shitty relationships. I've lost all my money and revoke myself. I've, you know, I've been there and the people know that the dramas that I've gone through, and I think the power lies when you share those shitty moments and you share the difficulties that you went through because the learning is in the air for the people that are listening that we have really can shortcut the people, you know, not repeating the same problems to go. That is the whole point. And to, to be able to you know, withstand that huge amount of pressure and to, to live at that high performance level. And I totally get your mentality of, you know, go hard and go home and extreme and and when you're young, you're Bulletproof, you're Bulletproof and nothing can break me. But I know in your story that came to a crushing sort of how to, at some stage it's go into that story a little bit. Speaker 4: (11:47) Yeah. So the silver bullet, so to speak, came shortly after my 30th birthday and I was one of these people. So for a very long time we were talking about how I grew up kind of East meets West and realize that health had a, an input in this idea of performance, particularly workplace performance. And I'm pretty nerdy when it comes to data. And so I actually calculated what was my return on health investment. So I would invest X amount in health per year and would get X amount growth in my bonus, so to speak. It wasn't a direct correlation, but it was just a way to justify what I was spending on these things. And I, you know, I'll caveat this by saying I wasn't necessarily spending it in the right way. I was spending on things that like Tim Ferris recommended or whoever, Dave Asprey in those days, actually it was the early days of day out. Speaker 4: (12:38) And Dave asked for even before them and as a part of this little esoteric forum on the internet called quantified self. And so I became very interested in the idea of if I monitor this data point about myself and it can be subjective or it could be something like my aura ring that I'm wearing now, you know, how do I take that information and apply it to perform better in my life? And again, for a long time I wasn't doing this in the right way. And so, you know, I was spending all this money and for my 30th birthday I was on the verge of resigning at this point from my job because you know, I done already gotten so much in investment banking and at that point everybody is quitting to build apps. And I was just like, I'm going to build an app. Speaker 4: (13:25) I didn't really have a good idea, but like I'm going to build an app. And so in the process of resigning, I went in and got all of these tests and one of those tests was actually calcium score and the calcium came back as positive. Now, as a 30 year old having calcium in your heart, I was at a 95% risk of a cardiac event. And so I had a blockage of my left anterior descending artery. Like any person who gets diagnosed with heart disease, what do they do? They give you a Staton? Well, the Staten induced chest pain so much so that I could barely walk down. If you're familiar with Singapore, there's this area called call your key and it's basically you go from Tanjong pagar over to my office and I was walking down that street and like gripping my chest in pain. Speaker 4: (14:15) And I said to the cardiologist at the time, you know, Hey, I think this has something to do with this stat. And he said, no, and you know, I don't fault him at this point because the education wasn't necessarily there, but now there are genetics that are associated with stat and the do chest pain. So I'd take, I stopped taking this, the Staton because it wasn't really a cholesterol issue in the first place. And really the pain went away. And so that was kind of the aha moment. Like, Hey, there's this data out there and I had it from my 23 and me test. That's not an advertisement for 23 meters. It was just like the easiest just to give them time. And I realized like, Hey, what else can I do with this stuff? And that was kind of how I went from, well there's a whole journey there on how do I make sure I don't die. But also as I was making sure I don't die, people were like, Hey, this is interesting. Can you do it for me? And that was really what became my, my transition. Speaker 3: (15:22) Wow. And now this is so interesting cause isn't it funny when you have either a personal evangelism, not my case with my, my family and my mum. That it just totally changes your, the lens that you're looking through. And as in you have a huge intimate thank you. That's very kind of listen to your podcast, but you have to have a huge intellect, you know, and I'm struggling half the time to keep up. But anyway. So you've taken that huge intellect that you applied, excuse me, to the finance world and you've gone, even though you're not a doctor or anything like that, you've gone into plot all that data and that ability to analyze data across into a new world now, which is what I find fascinating that you've made this transition and I've seen a number of other professionals through this as well who have suddenly gone into the world of health and understanding that the knowledge is now, you know, coming and out there and the, you've, you've gone across from the investment side now into the health side and quantifying it all and using data and using genetics and using all the other tools to now actually helping people with their health, then there'd be a good summary of what you're doing now. Speaker 4: (16:37) Yeah, absolutely. I think the underlying theme there, and actually before I get into the underlying theme it's just funny, a story came to mind, Lisa, the other day I was talking to a friend and the friend said, you know, the best psychologists all have some sort of underlying psychological issue that they've worked on. And that's why they became psychologists, right? I never intended to be in this world at all. I was going, like I said, I was going to build an app because everybody built apps, right? And I got into this world because I had to fix myself. And as I was fixing myself, I did it in something that made sense to me, which was data. So very strict measurement, very much defining objective strategies and tactics and executing with a certain level of discipline. Cause like we talked about earlier, you and I take things to extreme, right? So you know, just taking it to a certain level of extreme with the discipline side of things. So I see things a lot better. Speaker 3: (17:37) Yeah. Amazing. So you've now actually made a new empower, if you like, around helping people with high-performance, helping people with their health issues using the lightest. And this is what I find fascinating and we're, I think the future is turning to the old model of you had to go to medical school to become a doctor, to become an expert in health. And that was pretty much it. You were a nurse, a doctor or a you ma. Maybe there was a chiropractor or a naturopath in your town or something like that, but they were, you know, re era. And there was this, this linear thing thinking to the medical model and that is dying. Thank God is changing. We made the allopathic medicine model, but we also need it to change and we need the what would you call them? Accelerate viewpoints because, and you don't necessarily have to have gone to medical school and to have some really amazing insights. Speaker 3: (18:43) I mean you just mentioned Dave Asprey, the who, you know, some of the things I agree with and some of them I don't, but like he has certainly blazed the path for someone who's not himself, a medical doctor who's also come from, can walk computer science and his case into the, to the world of health and applied that, that brain and that, that ability and so a new area and you see this happening again and again. So what are you passionate about now? So you have the podcast decoding, superhuman, you have some incredible guests on there. What is it all about for you now? Speaker 4: (19:22) Sure. I guess before I outline what I'm involved in, what I'm doing, let's construct the theme to have it all makes sense, right? If you look at my personal mission, at least to what it's become over the past couple of years, it's to elevate the human experience through health. Now what do I mean by that? Elevating the human experience making, are enjoying our personal lives, enjoying our work lives, operating a certain level of energy, being compassionate being in, in shape, in the sense that, you know, extending health span, all of that is elevating the human experience. And the best way I know how to do that is through health. And so when I say that, that's the, the underlying theme of everything that I do. Now, you just mentioned one thing that I do, which is the podcast and the decoding super even podcast is top 100 business and careers podcast on iTunes and several different countries occasionally the U S as well, but also it let's go kind of from left to right. Speaker 4: (20:34) I do have the one to one consulting business where I work with predominantly entrepreneurs and executives through a process called health optimization. I'll come back to that in a moment. I work with an organization called health optimization medicine and practice. And that's a nonprofit foundation founded by my mentor, Dr Ted Achacoso's, which is basically U S and now I'm opening up the European arm here and there'll be an Australia, there'll be an an that arm as well. And it's kind of going global now in 2020 and then I, I do have some involvements and a, a nootropic which is going to be launched later this month. And I can talk about that too. So there's, there's a lot going on and there's more projects in the waiting, but you know, people look at me and say like, Hey, are you doing too much? Well, I view it all as complimentary. Speaker 4: (21:28) I'm just sort of solving my problems along the journey. Right? And so if I look at the one-to-one business, I only work with executives and entrepreneur types whether that be in digital marketing or whatever industry it is, because I know that lifestyle and I came from that lifestyle. And so I can speak a lot to that lifestyle. There's certain lifestyles that I just can't speak to, I can't work with, but we apply a rigorous amount of data. And perhaps Lisa says, okay, if I go down the health optimization realm right now cause I'm interested in more than anything and this wraps. Sure. So let's, let's talk about health optimization. And so as I mentioned this is all something that I'm spreading the word on through an organization called health optimization medicine and practice homehope.org. And so and so that organization is designed to teach doctors and health practitioners on how to optimize for health. Speaker 4: (22:29) If we think about why we go to a doctor currently, and I have nothing against doctors, right? I have zero qualms with the medical industry at all. It's people go to the doctor because they're sick because they want to get better from some disease. They want to discover what diseases, et cetera. But who are you going to for your maintenance? Right? Who are you going to for the tuneup if you're that car, we don't have anybody that just does the oil change and sends you on your way. Well, health optimization, medicine and practice is that oil change. And so what do I do now with my entrepreneurs? My executives is, look, I, I still have and gather a lot of data. I'm very comfortable with data, but I also think because we now have the ability to test for a number of different things, it's the best way out there because not only can we just assign probability, which is what we can do with genetics, we can actually see where your cells are right now. Speaker 4: (23:31) And that's through the metabolome. So when we start working with a client, what we're doing is we're measuring the levels of metabolites. We're looking at things like nutrients and hormones, we're comparing those to optimal ranges. And I'll define what optimal ranges is in a second. And then we're balancing really through the idea of a network. So rather than just taking one esoteric biomarker and focusing on it, I'm looking to upgrade an entire network. Because if you take one esoteric biomarker, all you're going to do is just Jack the thing out of balance again. And so what we want to do, you don't kind of ad hoc overhauling network, you balance networks. And so what we're actually doing is we're measuring those metabolite levels and looking at nutrients and hormones and then we're balancing that by looking at really what your optimal formo levels as well as nutrient levels should be through a 21 to 30 year old. Speaker 4: (24:30) Now I'm not a doctor so I can't prescribe hormones and so what do I do is I focus on the nutrient side of things. There are certain things I can do on the hormone side and there's oftentimes where I pair up with physicians and do focus on optimizing in that way, but that is where we're looking at is how do we upgrade your network so that your nutrients are balanced and so that you're able to perform at your absolute best. Now there's no claims there. I'm not saying that this anything here is treating disease. We're not doing that. All we're doing is giving your body maintenance and that allows you to perform at your best for longer and with a longer degree of health span Speaker 3: (25:11) In longevity, and this is absolutely Misa below mix. This is a new term that since listening to your podcast and coming across dr [inaudible] in, in starting to delve into his world, which is sine amazing. And this is providing a new lens to look through and looking. So this is even an hour practice with our company. We do epigenetic testing and if we, we have certain limitations, we can't go outside of our scope of practice and we have to bring in sometimes physicians and other experience in areas and that can be quite difficult. Certainly lock in more streamlined way of doing that and could be the people to work with. A little bit limited here where we are. But this is a, another lens to look through and I'm, I'm really wanting to layer on, you know, you have the expertise in like you've done with the genetics tasting and things like aura ring and using different data points and now your board and dr Ted's whole way of looking at it. Speaker 3: (26:26) And I, I, I have to talk to you privately afterwards about what it to, to become involved with that because I'm quite excited. I'm hoping I'd have the intellect to do it, to be honest on listening. Like, Oh my gosh, that guy is intelligent. He's a, he's a ball. He's statistically one of the smartest people in the world. So yeah, the Turlock, he is literally one of the top people in the planet. So that's what I'm saying. Everyone can keep up with it. But so what are the, you're working mostly in these cases still on the one on one system or are you sort of doing this for, can people contact you to get help or how does they work? Speaker 4: (27:10) I generally work with the, and the website hasn't been updated in a while and it will hopefully be up to it very soon. But I generally work one-to-one with people and it's almost strictly referral. But on occasion I do take in new clients. And so what we do is we do measure that metabolome and that. So let's just define those terms. Right? And so if you think about genetics, genetics is really popular, really sexy right now as is that the genetics and genetics is really the blueprint of where you should be, right? If you think about putting together a building, a, it's the blueprint of where you should be. It's that architect has drawn something fancy up. And I had the pleasure of doing one of these presentations to a group here in Amsterdam and there's actually a construction person in the audience. And I asked him, how many times does the blueprint actually end up as the actual house? Speaker 4: (28:02) And much to my amazement, I thought it would be somewhere in the range of like 10 to 30%. So zero. And you think about that, what actually influences the building? It was environmental factors. It was the soil, it was material. They'll ability. Now if you passport that over into our lives. Environmental factors are certainly something that we face every day. Material availability in terms of the nutrients that we need the weather outside, whether or not you gain enough sun and that's really your epigenome, right? And so we can keep going further and further down. The Omix line is, Oh, mix is very trendy right now too. And we can eventually get to this thing called the metabolome. And so the metabolome is really looking at yourselves and seeing what is happening right now and what has happened. And so what do I mean by that? Speaker 4: (28:57) We look at metabolites again across nutrients and hormones and we can determine things like vitamin deficiencies but also looking at anything from neuro-transmitters, although that's a little bit less reliable to heavy metal toxicities. And so, and then once we have all that information, what we can do is very much quite clot, a precise roadmap. And each one of my clients gets with is basically like a 10 to 15 page, a nutrient and lifestyle plan. And what they do is we're able to come very close and become very precise as to what nutrients you need to balance that network. Because after all, we're coming back to balancing the network. I can give another analogy if you want. Sure. So if you think about humans as as a whole, we're actually a collection of organisms. And what is interesting about the term super organism is the term superorganism really just means your collection of the same organism. Speaker 4: (30:03) The actual term that I prefer to use and was taught to me of course by dr Ted and Dr. Scott, who I know you had on the podcast before, is called Hola biomes. And the whole of Vajente is really just acknowledging that humans are actually a collection of organisms and we can measure those organisms through things like metabolomics and the health of those organisms and allow that to be a balancing mechanism. And so let's just run some examples here, right? And if you look at our current cell, our current cell is constructed of a symbiotic relationship between mitochondria and a, an ancient cell, right? And so that symbiotic relationship came together. And so we are actually fundamentally a collection of organisms. Now add on top of that, you have things like microbes, you have gut bacteria, you have viruses, you have all of these things, and you have this external environmental influence. Speaker 4: (31:02) And there's this book in 1992 and I'll get you a link in 1981 or Nigeria to that came out that turned this, the whole of biome. And so you as a human are actually a whole lot beyond. And so we can assess this whole of ion to actually measure. And again, I am very much into data measure the health of you and sir use it as like a term of benchmarking, right? So you come in every, I like my clients to see me, you know, once every three to six months for testing. And then eventually we want to get them to once a year, but usually starts at once every three to six months. And then when they come in, we benchmark how your whole Obiang is doing, you know, how are, how's your gut bacteria? Do we have good bacteria balances there? Do you have any sign of parasites there? Are there any sort of factors that we need to look at on the nutrient side? And once we benchmarked it, we then start to optimize, right? And so it's what I find, I consider it to be the most elegant equation to human optimization author. Speaker 3: (32:09) Wow. So this is the nix label from just what you've been doing along with the genetic testing and coming out with data that, that producers and actually looking at. So how is the hollow buoyant and the metabolome actually tasted? Is it through blood? Is it through a combination of, you know, saliva, blood, urine, you know, how was it actually the data collected? Speaker 4: (32:35) Well, that's a very good question. And so fundamentally with any clients, I run three tests now. Those three tests are a blood draw, a urine sample, and a stool test. And those three are allow us to assess metabolites as well as bacteria in balances. And so we're able to gather the picture in a very simple manner. Speaker 3: (32:58) Wow. And then [inaudible] and this is now international, the home hardcore Donald. So you don't need specialist labs to chase that. Can you use your name? Speaker 4: (33:09) Yeah. You can't get in exactly. Walk down to your local doctor and say like, Hey doc, I want to test. You know, I want my I w yeah, first off, you know, you may get some pretty weird looks if you mentioned the word hold by aunt, but it's pretty hard to go down and say like, Hey, I want to go test eight. Oh, HDG. Right. Which is oxidative stress or DNA damage. Even that's pretty difficult to test at most local labs. What we, what we do is we use a specialist's lab around their global little bit less of a presence. They have a presence in Australia called Genova diagnostics. They're based in Asheville, North Carolina, which is where my parents live. So I get to go make the pilgrimage every so often down to their labs. But yeah, Genova diagnostics provides those tests. You can get a metabolome analysis from other labs. And of course we're looking at those labs. But this one we use current. Speaker 3: (34:08) Wow, that's amazing. Okay. So they knew you'd get these tests done and then you can, you can analyze them for these things and give them specific recommendations, both lifestyle nutrients in other interventions, I imagine. Absolutely. And this is, so this is all, you know, like we both agree that, you know, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach is not where we want to be. In for our own health and for the health of our loved ones and the people that we work with. We want to be the, at the top of the class before the stuff happens. And this is the key difference in the approaches. And then a second difference is that our allopathic models are very pharmacological based. And you know, don't you believe that that money doesn't talk, you know, the money that pharma companies have at talks and, and that is influencing the decisions fate that your doctors are making. Speaker 3: (35:09) And it's also the way it's set up. And so this has been a very one sided, you know, and, and farmer pharmical logical intervention certainly has the place, but they have a way to bigger space in the world, I think at the moment and comparison. And I think , you know, like looking at hyperbaric and Dr. Scott shows, who's now involved with you guys is a, is a classic example of a therapy that works that doesn't have a pharmaceutical backing or no way to make tests because there's no way to make money out of it. They can't patient account, patient oxygen cause it's already there. You know, you've got situations, same with hormones, you know, by bioidentical hormones. You know, they haven't been able to paint it them. So they made some physical Mons for women and hormone replacement therapy and, and you know, that caused a whole lot of headache. So there's this, this is systematic problems in a boom boom, top of a, of a generations within the system. And a lot of it is, is very much a stick a bandaid on the, on the wound and not look at, well, where did the wound come from and why is it there and what's causing it, you know. And that's what we have more about and learning. Speaker 4: (36:23) Yeah. And, and I think, you know, even taking it one step further, because you know, looking at the wound and seeing where it comes from, that's a lot of what functional medicine is doing and they're doing well. What a health optimization does and health optimization, really medicine and practice is what we're doing is as you know, functional medicine, we'll look at that quote unquote root cause and what health optimization medicine practices doing it is seeking to just balance and perform that maintenance so that, you know, going down the line rather than having to basically take all of the life's maintenance and put it, you know, I, I come from finance, so like let's feature value all of life's maintenance into this one big event down the line, which in my case probably would have been a heart attack. Why don't we do little bits of maintenance over time so that health span happens. Speaker 4: (37:25) Right? And so I think going back to the finance analogy, it's like an annuity every year or every six months or even three months. You come in, you get your Tufts, you benchmark, you figure out where you are, and then you seek to optimize and balance or balancing networks here. And what we find is, is that people tend to perform very, very well, and you can start to measure these things, right? There's a, there's really cool clocks out there. I'm a big fan of the Horvath clock. I just enjoy it. And I know that these clocks are evolving every single minute. You know, people like chronometer my DNA age, a few others that are looking at methylation marks on the Nissan and the on DNA and determining biological age. There's also something out there called the grim age, which I'm super excited about because that one is, Speaker 3: (38:13) Oh, that's a new one on me. What's interesting, right? And this is Speaker 4: (38:17) Not for everybody, I'll admit this, but for people that are somewhat sadistic like me, this is apparently an a way to extrapolate a distance between now and first potentially more tality event, right? And so it's like now in between now and the time you die, but you can do stuff about it, right? And so I'm the type of person that if I have an issue, I want to be confronted with it. And so that, you know, I wasn't the kid who basically when I found out I had heart disease, I broke out a spreadsheet and figured out, okay, what's the average is a person dies and I put that day's number in my spreadsheet and that motivates me to, that motivates me to do stuff every day. Now that's not for everybody, right? And I recognize that I'm a little weird in that sense, but these are types of things that are out there that allow us to get not only not only just more, more data points, but also allows us to benchmark the success of our modifications, right? Because all we're doing is nutrients and lifestyle modifications, but nutrient, lifestyle modifications can be very, very powerful. Speaker 3: (39:35) Underestimated it, you know, like the basics and sometimes underestimated. We get into all this fancy stuff, but sometimes it comes down to are you drinking, are you sleeping? Are you getting sunlight? Right? Like, are you connected to nature? Are they saying those clocks? Or I'll have to get the links to that because I'm very sort of beach marking, biological age or, and, and you know, they, my age one, it sounds very interesting because that's something that's missing in our regime right now is being able to, is actually getting that macro for people and benchmarking and all these things cost. So it's always a cost way up. But it gives you something to aim for when you've got a line drawn in the scenes. I think Speaker 4: (40:17) I think absolutely. And I think a grim age is not yet commercially available. So the biological age is there are two companies that I know of that are producing them at various price points. The other thing that is really interesting and it's something that, yeah, the other one that I like for benchmarking is the promise 10 global. There's promise tents for everything, but it's just a simple survey and the statistics behind it are quite promising. So that's something, it's cost-free, but it's a great way to benchmark clients and their success rates. Speaker 3: (40:55) Okay. Okay. I'll, I'll be definitely get paid to get those links off here because a, a beach mapping system is what's missing and now, yeah, right. Speaker 4: (41:03) And what we, what we do, and it, sorry, I know I cut you off, is I gather a lot of data, right? It's like hell, I've said the word data. How many times? Speaker 3: (41:12) Yeah, you're right. Speaker 4: (41:15) So anybody that works with me has to be on board with that. And so whether that's from your wearable, whether that's from whatever survey that we send you anywhere from every day to every week you're, we're gathering data on you to make sure that everything that we're doing is working. Cause after all, like humans are complex adaptive systems to say we're not, is just categorically wrong. Right? And so when we look at a human as a complex adaptive system, we need to build in feedback loops. And so how do I get a person to, to sleep more than four hours a night? Well, I can't tell them to get eight hours a night just because the book says, right. What is actually physically happening there is, okay, let me show you your aura score every day. And you know, or whatever. It doesn't have to be aura. Let me show you that score every day. And that when that score goes up, how you feel and if you feel better than you subjectively just want to get more sleep. And so what we're doing is using the technology and leveraging the powers of technology and data to help assist in those behavior modifications. Speaker 3: (42:20) Brilliant. Because people need to have and some people to move that data-driven than others. Some you recommendations. And that's, you know, working with your epigenetic type if you'd like, as to how much science you need behind the information. I like you. I like to know the why and the Watson dig 10 layers deep down, stand up. Other people, maybe not so much, but having these beach max does give you a line in the, and it's like having, it's like if I say to you by my, you know, we're going to try a new up for a hundred K, you've suddenly got a line in the same and you've got a timeline and you've got a goal that you're going towards and therefore your teen Tom's likely more likely to get the us than if we don't benchmark that. And if we don't have that goal in place to help them in knowing where you started from and where you finished and then you can actually see, I came all that way and that's a really powerful thing I'd been on. Speaker 3: (43:13) I'm really aware of, of the time you've, you've been super, super generous with your time today. And I am super excited to find out more. I think that dr Ted stuff is definitely on my horizon once I've gotten through some other qualifications that I'm doing at the moment. They might be the next one. Yeah, that would be, it'd be super awesome. And I'd love to stay super connected to you and what you're doing because I love, I love just being around people that have the, the, the knowledge that you have, the breadth of experience that you have and the dips that you go. You fascinating. Your, your show is amazing. So everybody must go and subscribe not only to this podcast, obviously pushing the limits but to, to decoding superhuman, decoding, superhuman. And in there any last words that you'd like to share, boomer to people out there what's your most important mission in life and what is, you know, a thing that's really important for you to get across and people like that you would, Speaker 4: (44:17) Yeah, sure. So let, let's start with that mission. So I mentioned it a couple of times, but it is elevating the human experience through health. And I look at the world and look, I don't need to go back and go into any sort of politics or anything like that. If I look at the world and just kind of the problems that we face or the Speaker 5: (44:49) Okay, Speaker 4: (44:49) You know, where we need to go in order to, I get in a lot of discussions about the future of work, right? Just because that's what I get hired as a keynote speaker to do a lot. Let's talk about the future of work. And so when I look at the world and sort of elevating the human experience through health, there's a lot we can still do as humans before we all of a sudden get taken over by Skynet and go into this matrix type scenario. Right? And so I think people, you know, in terms of the mission, elevating the human experience through health in terms of the point I want to get across to people, start measuring if you are, no matter where you are, you don't have to be super human. You don't have to be, you can be like on the other end of the continuum, right? Speaker 4: (45:39) And just start measuring where you are. Start associating behaviors with a certain type of measure and get out a spreadsheet, get out a piece of paper, whatever it is. Assuming you're listening to this podcast, I assume you have some sort of modicum of technology you know, getting out a spreadsheet and start tracking this stuff and just started associating what you're doing with a feeling. And that's just a great way to start tracking. You can eventually get into all this really cool high level tracking that I've been talking about today, but really start measuring. That's something that will help you achieve your goals faster. And will really just make the whole journey a lot more, lot more fun. Speaker 3: (46:22) Yeah, a lot more fun and move a lot more little goals to aim for when you know what you're dealing with. And this is something, you know, that doesn't have any come naturally to me, but I'm definitely moving more and more in that way. We met, you've been super, super generous with your time. I really appreciate the work that you're doing in the world. I'm excited to see where it takes you and however we meet working with you more. So people can go to decoding superhuman.com which be your website and you can around, they can reach out to them. Speaker 4: (46:53) Sure. so www.decodingsuperhuman.com is the website. That's where you can find all the podcast episodes again, iTunes, Spotify, SoundCloud, every podcast destination there is. We released six episodes a month. And I will also, you know, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. I've basically gone through my new year's rerock of how I want to address social media. So you'll see me more in posting there as well. So I look in and please say hi like I am, I respond to every message is everybody knows so please say hi and let me know what you think of the opposite. Speaker 3: (47:32) Definitely reach out, check out the podcast, absolutely Speaker 2: (47:36) As a, as a master's, a minimum and ask the questions cause that's where conversations start and where you learn. So thank you very much, much. I really appreciate your time today. Speaker 3: (47:46) Awesome. Thank you so much. And one more plug. I guess if you want to check out the stuff that we talked about, Speaker 4: (47:51) About on the home hope side of things, just go to home hope.org yup. Speaker 3: (47:56) Yeah. Home hope.org. It's the website or Speaker 4: (48:00) We're working on launching the education foundation. It's part of, it's already launched. But it's something that you guys can check out and let let us know what you think. Can you can just drop me a message on social media? Speaker 2: (48:10) Yeah, it's definitely on my horizon. I want to, I want to get there. So thanks for doing that and thanks for spreading that word cause it's a completely new lens to look through. Thank you very much glioma and we'll talk again. Speaker 3: (48:21) No doubt. Absolutely. Thank you. Lisa. Speaker 2: (48:24) If your brain is not functioning at its best in, check out what the www.vielight.com do now. Be like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light. Revitalizes mitochondria. And I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related to client issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So kick out what the team www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T.com and use the code T A M A T I at checkout to get 10% of any of the devices. Speaker 1: (49:15) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

8 years ago a 22 year old Chloe Hogan was on her way to work at 5.30am one morning. She was gearing up for her second marathon a few weeks out and heading to the gym where she was a PT but disaster struck. An accident, a major one and Chloe was left with a massive brain injury. She lay in a coma for weeks, the Doctors after 19 days telling the family to turn off life support, that there was no hope. 4 days later she awoke and proved them all wrong. But the damage was massive and there wasn't much left of their beautiful daughter. But Brian is a fighter and a feisty Dad who wasn't willing to give up on his beautiful girl so he started researching and working. He ignored all the negative naysayers and powered through years of hard grind, always believing, always looking for the next level and slowly inch by hard won inch they bought Chloe back.  After 4 years they discovered Hyperbaric oxygen therapy, Chloe was still completely wheelchair bound, could only speak very slowly, and was incontinent. After 20 treatments the incontinence was gone, Brian did more sessions with her, another 165 to be exact and slowly combined with thousands of hours of physio, a change in diet and a never say die attitude Chloe got better and better. Now 8 years into their journey Chloe surprised her parents for Xmas with the greatest gift on earth, she took her first steps completely unaided.   Chloes story is outlined in my new book "Relentless" due out on the 11th of March. This book is about bringing my Mother Isobel back after a major aneurysm and stroke left her like a baby and she, like Chloe has clawed her way back. Against all odds and against all the medical professionals prognoses.   You can pre order "Relentless" right now at   https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless and if you grab it right now (before the 1st of February 2020) you will get free access to my MINDSETu online mental toughness ecourse.  Valued at $275.  So hurry over and pre order your copy right now.   To Watch Chloes feature story on TVNZ's 7 Sharp program go here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162529755070114&id=552205113&sfnsn=mo   and reach out to Chloe on Facebook at Chloe M S Hogan.   We would like to thank the sponsors for this show  www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function.  To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com     We would like to thank our sponsors:     For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com    For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!  No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Develop mental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality - Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs.    For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/   Transcript of the Podcast:    Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) If your brain is not function at its best, then check out the team at vielight.com. Vielight producers photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells, the mitochondria. Now research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and to slow age-related decline and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurysm in stroke. So check out what the team at Vielight like, do it and use the code Tamati. That's T A M A T I at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of the devices. Speaker 3: (00:59) Hi everybody, Lisa Thomas to hear it pushing the limits. And today I have a very special couple of guests with me, Brian Hogan and Chloe Hogan all way from Oakland. Hi guys. How you doing? Good. Thanks. Good morning Lisa. We've had a little bit of technical troubles trying to get you on here, but we've worked it out. So now I have, this is a very special story guys that I wanted to share with you, the audience because Conway's had an incredible difficult journey and who did in a family. And I wanted to shoot a little bit of the story because it sort of parallels a little bit. And so I'm going to start with you. Brian, we what actually happened to Chloe? Can you take us back eight years ago. Speaker 4: (01:49) Okay. Well in the morning of the 22nd her birthday, like she left to go to work at around five 30 in the morning and when about full bath rate case down the road, she for some unknown reason the stage well, what we want you to get or not chase way up to miss something on the road. There was a funny morning. Speaker 3: (02:10) Yup. Speaker 4: (02:11) Yeah, she lost control of the car and slammed passenger side on a heavy concrete pap on. She sustained a traumatic brain injury. Fortunately, there was a, a chromo theater nurse. Well, living within steady. Yeah. 30 meters of the crash. Yeah. It has been, came out sort of situation called the called his wife came out and she stabilized Slatery way stabilized, got a breathing soon after that. Somebody had run a very one of my mum and the ACE arrived and then the ambulance arrived and she was taken to Middlemore hospital. Yeah, no, we were there and it's seven o'clock in the morning, we're gonna knock on our door and our street placements, standing here and of course you get to wonder what this is all about. You think the worst and it was the worst or most and they say cloud and being involved in an accident and that she was very serious. Speaker 4: (03:08) Accident was Neha terminology. A great 9. And right team is a fatality, so like currently offers to drive us through the middle more, which they did at great speed. And we arrived to fund how he had been stabilized in the hospital and that she was totally unconscious. Of course it was hooked up to all sorts of houses and gadgets. And then they then we were told that they didn't have the, the equipment to continue the treatment there she needed through the engine and eventually medical intervention. So put it in an ambulance. And again, we following her, rushed through to walk hospital where she went into intensive care and wow. Yeah. So it was quite a day I had a morning. Speaker 3: (03:56) Yes. Yeah. So it was, and so Chloe was only 22 years old. Major brain injury. So she's hanging on for dear life. She's in the hospital. Of course. Clara, you won't remember any of this. Nothing. Thank goodness. That's a really good thing. So Brian, I know that then it was touch and go for a fairly long time. Chloe was in a coma and the ICU unit what was that time in your life like? Speaker 4: (04:27) Well, I guess that first two or three days you are just a sideline, I observed that really, you couldn't do anything. We were totally numb, totally numb, or it was like an out of body experience. You know, the way we can tell the truth is going to poke through and tell that she was going to die really new. So it was a time of great concern and she was blissfully sleeping. Thank goodness. Yes, I was sick. Mmm. But anyway, I think on the third day Dr. Stevens straight cold us coordinating with the family and set the stage, there was a a high likelihood that she wouldn't die. It's a big paper, a long journey and go with it right at the store. Speaker 3: (05:18) So I know that she was in coma for I think 23 days, but a day like 19 or something, they said to you, you might have to turn off the life support. Speaker 4: (05:27) That's correct. That's correct. She was transferred to high to begin and see after, okay. A week out of 'em [inaudible] and after, I think it was the 19th day or the 20th day, real cold to a meeting with them seeking you register on a high dependency ward, Hey saved to S there is no chance Chi [inaudible] out of her coma. Injuries are too severe and you probably the family to consider the alternatives, which was withdrawal of life support. And I pushed a document or pamphlet across the [inaudible] devastated. Speaker 3: (06:08) You were devastated and you actually refused and you're Brian, we've thought about it. Of course you're has five runs. So yeah, you, you basically you, you know, it came to be that you lifted the life support on and thank God you did. Is that what happened? Speaker 4: (06:35) Well, in it to the little no document on the wall that says they can't, that's where they are intervention. You know, I'm on the ward. You lost it all as your rights. Yes. Brilliant. And so that was it. And everyone went away pretty safe. But anyway, just normal for Kali on the . Speaker 3: (06:58) 22 days she woke up, she woke up just four days later and I were expecting her to, you know, not, not wake up even at all. This is pretty frightening though, Brian. If you think about it, like how many times has life support been tuned off when it didn't need to be tuned off? Yeah, yeah. Certainly not three weeks on and to the drama. I remember with my mom, I was, you know, given non resuscitation orders to sign and I wasn't as polite as you just saying. No, I use some stronger language. It wasn't that way. Always still going there. And you know, so after Callie woke up, of course she had massive brain damage. And Chloe, what is the very first memories that you have? How many months passed or you know, your dad will be able to help you here, but how many months before you can actually remember anything? The first thing I remember was the patient. Okay. So you have actual little bits of memory of actually in the, in the hospital, so okay. No, and their rehab. The rehab. Okay. So after hospital. Speaker 4: (08:25) Yeah. Especially as an open book or hospital for two months to Kevin IBI, which was out in route around Nelly and yeah, so that was probably four months after accident before she has that numeric. Speaker 3: (08:41) Wow. And that was the very first one. Now the cloud we have any any movement, any, any speech, any memory of you at all when she, you know, after a couple of months or was she pretty much you know, non functioning Speaker 4: (08:59) Well at open hospital once well she had an issue with biting her tone. Yeah. We all them. So they had to end up vein was gadgets to stop it tongue movement, which was very divisive and terrible. So she had shaved an amount, the must gadgets stuck in the mouth and she had a trunk. Yeah. And she has had a pig on to tell me to be fade. Sorry. She goes, Oh, what up. So even though she had woken up, she had no real response. We couldn't, she couldn't talk. She could say us. And she made, she'd made eye contact. Yeah. The the left side of her body wasn't functioning, so she couldn't see out the left side. And so that will took probably six months to come back slowly. Speaker 3: (09:57) Then we came back. Okay, Speaker 4: (10:00) Well forget, say what, say you on a high rot side, but hang on. Oh God, that ran the wrong way. My left and right. She could say, say on her right side and left side wasn't functioning. So she couldn't say, Hey, we'll stop. Stop. But then anyway, they, it's but now we're getting after the two months when it was obviously she was stabilized and she was reactive. And little by little like pulled some of these troops and things out. But you're so stuck with us math thing. But once the truck and that came out and I was there on the, not a senior nurse sick, well I think she can cope what ourselves and we're going to remove. So she moved there and they pulled them out, I think to me, his daddy. Speaker 3: (10:59) Oh, then it might give so she remember Jude, she had obviously some functions and some memory still there. No really good sign because I'm early on in the pace, you know, it's pretty hard not, you know, you don't know. I know with mum I didn't know whether she knew who I was and what I was or anything. And Tony, you've got a very, very special mum and dad, haven't you? Yep. So you've been now in this journey for eight years and from that time that you woke up from the injury and then that whole time you've been working really, really hard and your heart and your appearance and your family been working really, really hard to bring you back. How hard is this journey been for you and what, what does it mean? Like terrible. Yeah. So hard. Tell me some of the worst things that you've been through. Like at the very beginning you obviously couldn't control anything in your body at all. Speaker 4: (12:04) No. I don't think so. Well she had 'em up a little reasonable. Not reasonable, but okay. Up. I've I've actually, but she had, you know, we had to help feed her every meal, months, probably six months. Like to go back to one thing and it might, your audience might be interested that and for others going through this, you know, I did as much research as possible. Everything. Dr Google is probably really wonderful. Yeah. And one of the other things on that that I found out was stimulation was important no matter what. So while she goes and well while she was in and and not and high dependency, she I used to sing to her. Speaker 3: (13:08) Okay. Speaker 4: (13:09) And I also used the read to this, I agree to a book laugh out loud so she could hear it, but every time I did that end, even my staying here hat right wig down. So she was selling it for around 90 to a hundred beats per minute hot. Right. Well it had dropped her 70 almost every time. So she was getting it. She was, she was [inaudible] and stimulating and that suddenly, you know, for folks that are in the same situation, they might like to try that. There was a young guy at IBO who was a boxer and he sustained a traumatic brain injury in the prefab and his training and he was almost totally climatized. So his mother was, they regulate but wouldn't, she wasn't nice gun sit with him. And I talked to him about boxing and gosh, you just, yeah. You could say he'd smile and he'd give me . Mmm. Your responsible. Sorry. Can I just, as I said, never give up and try it. I was like this possible, but know simulation on happiness. Is it great? Mmm. Speaker 3: (14:23) And I think it's really important that people treat them as if they are the or O'Brian. Don't talk to them as a fan, not reasons or over them. That's what I found very, very frustrating. In the early days, did you find that like they would talk with a car? We didn't exist. Speaker 4: (14:41) Yeah. Do you let the medical staff talk to, talk over her as like when you're in hospital? But I might've pissed no, and I made them talk to her and address that. Ava, she was our sponsor. We just, we just stuck with it. We're not gonna give out. Speaker 3: (15:04) Yeah. And, and giving people that respect, even though they can't respond, is very, very important for anybody who has disabilities or anybody who can't communicate or has had a stroke or brain injury, you know, always give them the full respect that you'd give anybody else and talk to them about this situation. You know, I find that really, really offensive when people don't do that, even though they can't respond. Yeah, you, you went to dr Google. That's exactly what I did. I went like hardcore researching every thing in the universe on brain injury. And I know like for the listeners, Brian and I connected a few years down the track with Curry and actually I was probably half a year in or a year and with mom's rehab when we connected, I think, and you rang me one day about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and see what I, what I thought about that. I think you'd, yeah. Tell us a little bit about that journey cause that happened already. That was already four years in or so to two colleagues rehab, is that right? Speaker 4: (16:07) Yeah, it was it. Well, almost daily diary, as I said to medical staff, you know, how bout hyperbaric oxygen treatment. And so every single person, every single metal comparison I spoke to gave him no joy at all. Don't know anything about that. That's not proven. It's a hurry. But I, you know, I played, I played in the open rugby up hydrocod color dry for seniors and we played Navy and I took the bait fuck shelf it before it was no blood. Speaker 3: (16:40) Was almost an old black. I'm sure he was glowing Speaker 4: (16:47) That vaccines may or the boys go and you know, we're talking after the guy and mother boys go into the, into the decompression chamber, which I had on the night device, but the next day after the game, and I said, you could watch bruises disappear now that was when I was about 19 or 20. So it was a hell of a year long, long time ago. But that sort of stuck with me. So one of the early things I thought about or have have hyperbaric Novia with it and I, I sort of gave up on it because we got so much negativity from it. Speaker 4: (17:24) But anyway we, she hadn't had an operation, a middle matter hospital to correct her foot. So while we're sitting on the there for bed awakened and I was reading books like really got stuck into this hyperbaric and I found this chamber that's private chamber in, the seven mountain Nelson. And so that was approximately four years. Oh, on this journey. Did we rent them out to her? And Jose, actually, if there's someone who's down the call, I was going through hopper. Greg did, I rang you or she had 2020 treatments of MACRA the first time. And within a week of coming away she'd be, she'd be, she got control of about, so she was before years there was incontinent, a nappy for four years. And and so that, that was just a huge step. Now there was nothing else different than we did the fixed date. Speaker 3: (18:27) So this is 4 years. I want people to listen. Keep it. This is four years into the rehabilitation cause a lot of people have said to me, it's too late. I had a stroke five years ago or 10 years ago. It's now used to be doing that for years after the event. 20 sessions. And you've already got a major, major breakthrough. This might not sound major, but as it is, as both of us and all of us have gone through, being in consonants is major and it's not fun. It's not fun as it Chloe and after 20 treatments to get control, that means that part of the brain is coming back online. That's what that is. And then you, you had to go all the way to map or, so there's a, there's a a medical hyperbaric facility down in map or a Nelson, which I think is unfortunately closing if it hasn't already close his it, Brian. Speaker 4: (19:20) Ah, yeah, it's on the, in the process of closing down, but the much, Oh, absolute tragedy, you know, saying there's so much pressure from people who know about it. So it starts trickling along, but it'll eventually closed. I imagine by the end of this year, Speaker 3: (19:40) If we had, if we had lots of money, we'd go and buy it and get it up and running again. And no. So dr Tim are, is the, is the, is the doctor down there? He was in charge of the costume, a hyperbaric facility before he went in private. Now hyperbaric is a hugely beneficial, and then if you're listening to this guys, he was a, one of the world's leading experts on this podcast over two years ago now, Dr. Scott Scheer, who she has insights and go back and look up and I'll put it in the show notes, the link to that episode because this is really powerful. You did that 20 sessions and then you went back again and this, each time you're taking Kali right down to Nelson, you're staying, living down DHEA, which is a hell of a sacrifice day, isn't it? Speaker 4: (20:24) Oh yeah, I see it. You want to have a holiday? I got him out. Poets. Speaker 3: (20:29) It's a lovely place. But in karma you had to go in this chamber every day pretty much every day. Apart from weekends, weekends I got to go shopping. She's an expensive daughter, isn't she? So how many sessions did you end up having a map or Brian? Speaker 4: (20:52) 195, I think. Speaker 3: (20:54) 95 of the medical grade hyperbaric treatments in as she progressed. What were the things that you saw come back online? Cause when I met she was fully in a wheelchair, unable to stand or anything like that. What happened over there? 185 sessions. There's a lot of sessions, but that's, it's nothing when you compared to a lifetime. Speaker 4: (21:18) Oh yeah. Like it was well it just changed everything. She, she gained weight gain control of her alum. So her feet, you know, the walking out of it, she doesn't and I, I'm a high Walker. Speaker 3: (21:39) Yep. Yep, yep. Speaker 4: (21:40) And she has to have somebody in front of it pulling in somebody behind my conception 40th and the tray. That's as good as she had got. After half the Brack, she was able to walk to the gutter frame and assisted, you know, over a period of talking to them while we were down there. So her fake placement there was a first thing I noticed was probably after 40 stations she could manage her feet and place them in the right place instead of getting them 10 without. So then she was stable on like other friends. So it didn't make a person in front of the person to be healthy. And from that she's going on, she entering the Walker and now she's four, she's walking through and we'll link to basketball court. Speaker 3: (22:27) Wow. Probably tell you you were on television recently. We'd show because it was a Christmas miracle that you gave to your dad. What did, what did you do? May and Jane organized, did they own seven shop? Oh, I wanted to be on TV. Hey, curious, why not? And you showed them and this buddy you showed your dad and your mom, you for the first time taking some steps, is that right? Yeah. And I caught it on camera. I'll put the link to that guy, that video. Guys, these are copies for your steps. Now this is after 195 hyperbaric sessions, thousands of hours of physio therapy. Goodness knows what else you've done as well, Brian, for everything you've done, everything under the sun, pretty much. If someone sees this weird musical therapy, have you stuck? I've got lasers that I stick up mom's nose. I've done everything possible. Speaker 3: (23:33) Yeah, I've still got that. I actually think it's great. You know, in other words, we didn't just, both of us approach this with try everything. If it's risky, try it. And if it's risky, we'll weigh up the risks and we'll have a go at it and research like how, and take responsibility. Don't wait for the medical professionals to give you the go ahead. Don't wait for the green light for hyperbaric therapy. You know, this isn't an advert for five very clear free, but it is a very powerful therapy if you have enough sessions. And it's just an absolute travesty that Maffra is perhaps closing because the regulations around the just terrific. That made it very, very difficult from what I hear for dr terms to function and you leave are these stories. My mum has had 250, half of Barrick sessions. I ended up buying a, what they called a mild hyperbaric chamber, which is not as good as the one in Maffra, but it was the best that we could do. I had the first 53 sessions with you in a, in a proper, if you want to call it then a proper chamber. But it was through a dive company and it was, you know, taken off and we couldn't use it anymore. And I created that would giving me enough brain back of mom's brain that I could then teach you to walk and to do the things. And the same would have been with you I Brian with the, with the, with the policies coming back. Speaker 4: (25:05) Oh yeah, absolutely. And I like fake placements, quite important now with ums and she's got control of them. And I put that down to hyperbaric because nothing else is, well, she's had lots and lots and lots, lots and stuff. But I suppose that's been one of the pickiest parts of the puzzle and putting it back together. Speaker 3: (25:32) It's the key of it because it ha so what hyper hyperbaric does people is it hyper oxygenates your your body. So you're getting about seven times the amount of oxygen into the body and it's compressing the oxygen molecules so that it can actually pass through the blood brain barrier to the parts of the brain that are damaged but not deed. So the deed pats were unable to bring back. But typically around the deep parts of tissue there is what they call way ischemic penumbra and these are cells that are alive but they're not functioning. And these are the ones that we can hopefully target with hyperbaric and bring back. It also hits the inflammation pathways in the brain and in the body. And it also helps produce more STEM cells and all of these things help the body to repair it. So it's not a quick fix. Speaker 3: (26:18) It's something that you need to have a lot of sessions in. But as you can see with probably after four years of not getting very far at all and then having these 185 sessions over the period of, I don't know, a year and a half, two years, she's now walking that is massive. She now has control over her bowels and 40 in control over a hell of a lot more. Whose features also improved greatly, hasn't it? Karma. You're talking pretty now? Cause when I, when I meet slow, yeah. I think when I met you it was quite slow. It was. It was, and that's a huge difference. So it's a hugely powerful and you've got your whole life ahead. You're a super young lady and I know that you've got your 30th birthday coming up. Is that right? You're invited. Oh, I'm invited. It's fantastic. Speaker 3: (27:09) I'll try and get to that point. And so Chloe's dad and I have had sort of exchanged notes along the road, however we, Brian and given each other tips, some trucks of what we've learned along the way. And this has been really a multipronged approach. It's not just the one thing, a huge part of it has been hyperbaric, but it's also thousands of hours and the therapists and training and retraining the mind. It's having the guts and the determination like if Brian wasn't such a feisty, don't take any shirts person who is going to push through every barrier and if I wasn't the same then I don't think mum or Chloe would we be with AR. And by the same token, Chloe and mum are also identical and that they are fighters. They are people that persist that resilient. The positivity that Callie brings to this really difficult journey is nothing short of mind blowing. I've been absolutely astounded to watch you over the last few years on how you've just fought your, your differently. A chip off the old block, aren't you daughter? Speaker 3: (28:23) I have lots of grit. Exactly. So call me. You are just a couple of weeks away from running your first marathon when the accident happened. Day one. So I forgot. I forgot. You'd already need the one. Sorry. I was going to do it and then you want to smash that toe. I'll tell you what though, that dream is still alive in you, isn't it? To athlete again, get out there and race and be in a, in a, in a racing, you've actually done a fiveK , is that right? Yeah. Fun run. And you did it on your, your frame at that time. Zimmer frame funding. Yeah. Speaker 4: (29:14) She doesn't, well, yeah, I guess because it, but yeah, she doesn't walk. Oh by Southwest. We have lots of people around helping her. Oh, and encourage her, right. Very steep that she needed. Speaker 3: (29:30) Yeah. That's insane. That is so amazing. Chloe, you've got mum, I'm up to two Ks with mum. The five K's yet. And story in Brian's story is in my new book, which is coming out in match called relentless. And it's, it's another example of an incredible comeback story. And that's why I was really keen to share this. And Brian is hopefully gonna write the book one day and Brian and chloe, you're gonna get the bums into here and share this insight as well. Even though writing a book is a mission. I hope so because this is an incredible story, Callie and it's not finished yet and she's still got a week wise to go on on. Definitely to get full independence. Ron, do you think Chloe will ever reach full, full independence again and be able to no flat on her own or, or live in a house with, with flatmates and they talked to them. Speaker 4: (30:28) Oh, without a doubt. But they have a death. Speaker 3: (30:30) Really? That's amazing. So at the moment you with mum and dad? Yeah. Yeah. And yet are you sick and mum and dad, do you want your own independence? He goes away sometimes. So it's okay. It's just you and ma and then you girls go shopping, but more on spend. Spend some more money there. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't really like shopping. They keep a grip on it. They'll say, Oh, hype site. So I call it. What are the next steps in your journey? What are you working on at the moment? Because you're always working on something. Hey. Yeah. To be able to walk without the Walker. Oh, like a long period of time. Yep. Yep. And what are the things that she's struggling with Brian in that respects as a balance or spatial awareness or con coordinating your face and things. Don't Speaker 4: (31:28) A balance really chase get, you know, like every day she gets better at it. You're like, we, we have been away to Tyro since Christmas or so before Christmas. And even I notice even though we're here all the time with it, even I know she can climb the stairs and stairs now with minimal assistance, whereas at Christmas it was, you know, you have to keep a class on I, but she can do it all by herself. Now just with my mind, Speaker 3: (32:00) Are you using functional neurology? That's something that I'd highly recommend you go out and start looking into if you haven't to Willy, which is using a, so doing things like with your eyes balancing, you know, different eye exercises that really helped me with non, with your facial awareness and who balance stuff. So if you, if you, are you doing that at all with, with PI? Speaker 4: (32:20) Yeah. maybe they're not that I'm aware of. Exactly. If you could save me that. Speaker 3: (32:26) Yeah, I'll send you a couple of videos. I'm in links to doctors who, who teach this online. I'd also recommend you go to a good car, Frank, cause it knows about functional neurology or I'm not sure if there's up in Oakland or not, but and just get things looked at it from that perspective because adjusting the bet can also help with I've got mum at the chiropractor at the moment, we're trying to straighten out. It's fine. Of course things are going a little bit skew with after four years of being, you know, leaned over on one side and that can help with neurological function as well. So it's just say people like it's really important to share these insights and information with each other cause we're still learning, we're still growing, we're moving forward. And each time you come, you take a step forward, you actually come up against a new obstacle. I've found a Braun, there's something that, some new place that you haven't thought about. A new, a new level, a new deal sort of thing. Speaker 4: (33:19) Yeah. You know, like the other thing that I think is important is as I'm assessing the notes that you know, the right to make a significant difference as well. I think Speaker 3: (33:33) The right food for our brain is really, really important. And having good high fats, good Omega threes, really important. I have a whole regime of different supplements that I also have mum on. And we also do something called epigenetic testing. And I got into this Brian, it looks because it looks at your gene genetic makeup and how they're expressing now and gives the exact right diet for that person's genes. So it'd be something that we Speaker 4: (34:02) Yeah, for sure. I like look at them. Speaker 3: (34:07) Yeah. Cause I think what, what, what the key takeaway from this guys is obviously hyperbarics really important. Second is resilience in fight in persistence and not giving up in certainly having the support of a wonderful family or friends or people that can help anyone going through a drama like this and being resilient and then also the right diet and taking a really multipronged approach. Not just relying on drugs, not relying on just physio. It's not enough. It's not enough. It's a part of the puzzle, but it's, it's not, it's not enough for brain injury, but there is a way back and there is quality of life. You know, Chloe, you're pretty happy lighting it nowadays that you, you always seem to be jetting around the place and having all travel. You love travel, you've got a wonderful family. You're moving again, you're walking in, you're going somewhere, you've got your job, sort of sit for the next couple of years. What do you get yourself back to? More independence and, but near as quality of life and nearest happiness. Fear and it sounds, yeah, it's an amazing story guys. Brian, are there any last words or closing any last words that you want to encourage people who might be going through hardships? It doesn't even need to be brain injury, but just hard times. Speaker 4: (35:23) Well, I, you know, I, my bag disappointment through or laser as a, a number of the professionals just don't get it. And you know, like a lot, probably more than 50% of the you know, they use psychologists if you like. Have said in front of Chloe, you'll never walk again. You've got unrealistic expectations to hit face. And some of them say, you know, you'll never have you know, never have a pattern in your life and you got any issue and you're going to get [inaudible] don't get used to it. That's, that's how it's going to be. The phone a lot. And I've got so angry and in front of people, I never quite lose it, but I felt like Speaker 3: (36:21) A few times and my big brother have lost it toe a few times. Speaker 4: (36:27) Yeah. And it's just stupid. They put themselves up as so called experts and they, yeah, I know nothing for those facts. We just kept them. You don't want to know anything about them. I've tried them in the door. That's it. We're not coming back. We keep looking and, and we've had some absolutely wonderful caregivers or professionals that are help Chi and, and an event like I, we keep changing providers cause he goes to speech therapists almost every two or three years until we find the right one. But they run out of ideas. They run out of experience and colleagues continue to improve. So therefore some of them you get to a stage where they've topped out, I don't know any more and can't take it to the next stage. Or the challenge is to find the next person who can take it to the next day. And we've been relentless at that nonsense and we look constantly for people that can help. And we just kept the negative ones there immediately. Non-Native might, I don't know. And I just really totally surprises me how how these people lie and I still operate and I just wonder how many people get discouraged by that and just accept it. We're, you know, we document, Speaker 3: (37:52) No, we don't. And, and, and we've, you know, like the thing is like, we're feisty fighters. We, we not people that give up and how many people go under the bus who don't have feisty daughters or fathers or people that will help them. I had times at the hospital where, like in front of my mum, I remember vividly, we had a, we were finally got into a physio program and of course she wasn't ICC like you guys. So we didn't get a lot of support. And I finally got her into a physio program after a year and we did this training with him, which was excellent. And he preceded, I could have done more in my, you know, when lunch break than they did. And at the end of the six weeks, they'd done all these tests with here and they'd talk to her like she was an idiot. Speaker 3: (38:35) And we were in this panel that we had to present the senior, that we were allowed to stay in the program. And we were taken into this room and I said to her, look, Isabel is below the level of the worst dementia patient we've seen. There is excellently no hope. She will never do anything again. We not going to continue in the program and this is in front of my mum. Right. And, and I just turned around to my mum and I said how does it make you feel mum? And she said, well, I was feeling quite empowered until I heard that, that I'm below the level of dementia patient now I'm absolutely depressed and I don't know what to think. And the mouths dropped open. They have never heard her speak a full sentence because that talked down to her, realized she had an intelligence via that they, they had ignored. And these are the professionals, the doctors, they send the fuzzier therapists and you know, I'm not saying that all like that from pig. God, they're not complete idiots. We told them to stop the program. Speaker 3: (39:42) I bet you've seen hates cause I've seen hates and in people who had told me, even, you know, good physios who would come to the end of their abilities, who told me you won't get any more rubbish. Yeah. And you can imagine when you've got a 78 year old how they're even more so, because they're like, she's 78. What do you want? You know, made it go, no, she's my mum and I'm going to fight and I wanted to live to 120, you know, then my attitude and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not happy with where we're at it, I'm very, I'm glad we're here but I want more and Callie wants more. We keep looking for the next layer of people that can help us and that's why we keep exchanging ideas and I've got a couple for Chloe to look into. So Speaker 4: (40:36) Yeah, I guess that that was really my point. I think just don't give up and when you get a divorce that you don't think is right, seek a second opinion or just go elsewhere and I just tell them out. They're not talking to our my niece has just qualified as a medical doctor and I said to her, she was here just over Christmas period. Said to her, what you know, what did they teach your bed? Hyperbaric oxygen treatment. And she said nothing. Nothing, absolutely nothing. Absolutely stupid as that I've been back works for almost, even though I dislocated my shoulder playing rugby years and years ago. And when they told me what I need a shoulder reconstruction thought and I was functioning okay. But I couldn't wash my hair with my left. Well wash it with my right. But so I put up with that for years and years and after that first 20 treatments, Speaker 3: (41:35) Yeah. Wow. What's flowing? No question. That there's no growth like crazy me. It does. We don't ask Dr. Scott share who was on this you know, earlier this, this podcast he said to me, if we can get three treatments, if anybody who's had a heart attack or stroke within a few days we can have the mortality. Right. And I see, why the hell is this not an every single ICU in the world. And you see, because there's no money to be made in it. He said that I'm a doctor, this is not from [inaudible] the company behind it, the clinical trials, they won't do anything cause you can't patient oxygen and they can't make money out of it. And unfortunately that is the general state of our health system. It's very pharmacological based and it's very surgery based. And while that brilliant surgery and the brilliant at those parts of the puzzle, they're not good when it comes to chronic health management and they're no good when it comes to a situation like this. And that's why, you know, I know this is controversial, unnoticeable piss some people off, but this is our experience and it needs to be shared because there's a hundred other people that will back up what we're saying a thousand other people. Yeah. Interesting enough. Was the next a customer in the door, was that an American lady? And we're talking about, she said, well, funnily enough, almost every new mall would you go on until you are in the States nowadays as a wellness clinic. Speaker 3: (43:33) There you go. Yeah, it's growing and, and, and the popping up. We'll have New Zealand. I opened the clinic here with a, what they call a mild hyperbaric facility with, so we can't afford the big ones with the big medical grade, but they are justice just about as good, not quite as good, but it just about as good, they don't have a hundred percent oxygen and these are popping up all over the country. So you guys, if you want to find out about it, this is not just for people with brain injuries. This is for people who want an anti aging. Good for you, for athletes. This is good for healing wounds. This is absolutely proven stuff. And there is clinical trials. I have a season. It is a powerful and by the same token, there's a hundred other Sierra pays or biohacking or whatever you want to call it, stuff out there that is worth looking into. Speaker 3: (44:21) We can't give recommendations for everything there is, but there's a hell of a lot that I've tried. And all combined together. Nope. Do the restaurant, do the risk assessment yourself. And if you think it's for you, go for it. And don't be told what you can and you can't do. And you know, just keep powering on clothing. Brian, you've been fantastic today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's really awesome. It's so important Chloe, that you get out there and you tell people this journey that you've been on, there's a reason why you've been through this. We've got to tune it into a positive, even though it's been health, you and your family. This is why the book for me is important to get it out there, to share these insights so that other people don't have to have it as hard as we did. Speaker 3: (45:11) And if we can help people then it's great. So if anybody wants to reach out to calling weaker, they find you guys your famous snare Chloe. Yeah, my Danny that drew runnings, my Facebook page, my journey back to running Facebook. So clubby Hogan on Facebook and I can find you the year under Chloe Hogan. That be right. Chloe is Hogan. Okay. Chloe, Ms. Hogan, what a complicated name you've got. Wow. That is very fancy. So fire was my granddad. Oh wow. That's a pretty cool name. So Chloe, Amy's Hogan, if anyone wants to reach out to Corey, I'm sure she'd love to hear from you. If anyone wants to reach out to me or to Brian, please let us know. You can email me and I can pass any messages on. If you've got any questions. Thank you very much guys for sharing your story. We've got to get it out there more. It's an absolutely amazing story and you and mum, Chloe are both rock stars, so thanks though. Thanks Lisa! Speaker 2: (46:20) We're pushing the limits this week. I hope that that was really interesting for you and you took some really strong takeaways from that interview with Brian and Chloe. It's been a, an amazing to watch her journey over the last few years parallel to my mums and some of the insights that we've both gained a really along the same path. So I hope you'll take heat of some of the notes that we talk. I just wanted to remind you to hop on over to our website. If you want to check out our programs. We've got three flagship programs. We've got our online run training Academy running hot. We you can learn everything you need to know about running with you are doing your first five K or 10 K or maybe you're gone for an a half marathon. Or if you're doing a hundredth hundredth miler, we would love to help you. Speaker 2: (47:04) We have a holistic run training system that is based around our five pillars. So these are your run training sessions, you mobility work, your strength work, your nutrition and your mindset and all those pieces of the puzzle. Really, really important. It's not just about putting one foot in front of the other and winging it and seeing how you go. Certainly not when once you start getting into the longer distances or once you start running sort of any injury issues. So please check that out. We also have mindset U, which is our mental toughness Academy. And this is all about developing a stronger mindset. You know, all the stuff you just heard about. And the interview with colleague, that sort of stuff. It's about resilience, it's about persistence. It's about overcoming that negative voice in your heads, those limiting beliefs that were programmed into you perhaps as a young person. Speaker 2: (47:53) All of that sort of good stuff. So cheek out mindset you're in. The third program that we have is our epigenetics testing program. Now this is just really next level. Now this is a program that's been put together by hundreds of scientists working from 15 different science disciplines to look specifically at your genes and how they are expressing right now. And so this is the next step in personalized health. Never before in the history of mankind. Have we ever had an insight into our bodies like we do now. And then information can help us really nail down our health problems, our optimizing our house, tuning the clock back on time and reaching high-performance. It give you information right from like having Google for your, for your own body basically. You know, it'll tell you exactly the right foods to eat, the right times of the day, your chronobiology all about the different times of the day, your hormones, when they're replacing what your dominant hormones are. Speaker 2: (48:54) It'll give you information on your mindset, how your mind works, which parts of your brain you use the most are just absolutely next level of information. So if you want to check out our epigenetics program, hop on over to my website, Lisa Thomas E. Dot com and hit the programs button and you'll see all three of our programs. I've also got our new book relentless coming out on the 11th of March, 2020 then this is a story of bringing my bump mum back from a mess of aneurysm. And you can preorder that book. Now, if you do preorder it, you'll get free access for the next three weeks only to mindset you. So you'll get your free X's to mindset you, you also get a discount on the book if you preorder it. The book does not ship until the 11th of March. But if you support me in getting this underway, I'm actually going to give you access to mindset. You now, that's a value of $275 and that program has been running for a few years and has helped countless people. So if you want to get this as a onetime only offer only to promote the book, please head on over to the shop at lisatamati.com Under the books button and you'll find relentless the preorders available there. So thanks very much for your time everyone, and we'll see you again next week. Speaker 1: (50:12) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.

Sanjay Rawal worked in the human rights and international development sectors for 15 years in over 40 countries before focusing his love for photography and storytelling onto filmmaking. His first feature, Food Chains (2014), premiered at the 2014 Berlinale and screened at Tribeca before securing domestic distribution from Screen Media. The film was produced by Eva Longoria and Eric Schlosser and narrated by Forest Whitaker.  It went on to screen in 1,100 more theaters during its theatrical, semi-theatrical & community screening tour. A lifelong runner, Sanjay was happy to lose the pounds he gained eating Mexican food in farmworker towns and take on a project about running. His latest film, 3100: Run and Become, opened in theaters in fall 2018 and comes to New Zealand in February 2020.   Sanjay learned under spiritual teacher Sri Chinmoy and studies in this film the power of running to connect humans to powers beyond themselves. The film follows the incredibly long and brutal 3100-mile race held every year in New York City as well as diving into the long human history of long-distance running visiting The Mt Heiei Monks in Japan to the Navajo Indians to the Kalahari Bushmen. A film not to be missed and an interview to open the mind to new possibilities.   We would like to thank our sponsors:   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff   If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) You're listening to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati. Welcome back everybody. Today I have a very, very special podcast, but before we get underway, I just want to remind you, if you want to reach out to me, you can do that at lisatamati.com Find me on Instagram. I'm very active on Instagram at least to [inaudible] the same on Facebook. And I'd love you to come and check out our website and our flagship programs. We have three programs. We mainly do our work and we have the epigenetic program, we have the run online run trading system running hot, and we also have mindset you, which is all about mental toughness, resilience, and being the best version of yourself that you can be. So make sure you go and check those lisatamati.com Right now. Today we have a very special guest all the way from New York city. Speaker 2: (01:05) His name is Sanjay revile. Have you haven't heard of? Sanjay? He is an internationally renowned filmmaker. He was in the human rights and international development sector for 15 years and worked in over 15 so over 40 countries before he tuned his love for photography and storytelling into his new career, which is filmmaking. He's done a number of films. I'm most well known as his feature film, his first feature film called food chains. This was produced with Eva Longoria and Eric Schlosser and was an over 1100 theaters worldwide. And his latest film is what we're going to be talking about today. Now Sanjay is a lifelong runner. He's dedicated to doing just this running. And he was also a follower of the late Sri chum NOI, who many of you runners may know of. He was a Indian spiritual leader who died in 2007, but he was very much into unifying religions and to meditation and the power of a sport and athleticism to help you reach spiritual realms, which I find really, really fascinating subject. Speaker 2: (02:25) And the film that Sanjay has just produced is called 3,100 run and become, and it's based around the fact that human beings are meant to do this long, long distance running that we talk about that we're born to run. And it's particularly seen it on the race in New York city. 3000, 100 miles. This has been going for over 27 years, I believe around half mile block in New York city. And every year about 14 to 16 runners come to test the metal against horrifically long brutal arduous race. And the distances that they cover in that time is over 52 days. Is 3,100 miles set is over with just up, no, sorry, just over 5,000 kilometers. That's like going right across the United States, but in a half mile blocks. So you can imagine how hard this is. It's absolutely brutal. It's not something I would've ever tackled. It's too big. But he talks in chosen this foam, one of the characters, the main characters is the Norwegian runner who has done this over 15 times. And as really the world's best at the super, super, super long distances. So we get into a really deep conversation around philosophy and spirituality. The power of running to train, seeing yourself the healing abilities of running, how it can connect you with mother nature and you know, soul, a lot of our modern day woes. So without further ado, here's Sanjay. Speaker 3: (04:01) Well, hi everybody and welcome to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you guys back again. We're nearly at the end of 2019 and I can't believe it. And today I have a special special guest with me who is sitting in New York city at the moment. Sanjay Rowe. Wow. Welcome to the show. Sanjay. Speaker 4: (04:20) Thank you so much. It's a, it's a winter here, so I'm just trying to keep it together while you guys enjoy mother nature in a different way than I am right now. Speaker 3: (04:28) Yes, I've been, yeah. Well you're welcome to come over here anytime. We'd love to have you ever New Zealand. You can come and visit way. That'd be fantastic. So have you ever been to New Zealand? Speaker 4: (04:38) I have, I haven't been there in almost 20 years, but I am coming for about 10 to 12 days at the end of February. The screen, the movie that we're going to talk about. Speaker 3: (04:48) Oh wow. Okay. I've got to make sure I get to that somehow. So we'll talk about that afterwards. So everybody listening who doesn't know sanjay you will soon. So he has produced a number of films over his career. But recently won a film that we are going to be talking about mostly today is a film called 3,100. Sanjay, can you tell us a little bit about this amazing though? Speaker 4: (05:15) Yeah, I'd be happy to. So the movie's 3,100 running become and it follows a pretty diminutive relatively unheard of. Finished man named Ashbery. Hannah Alto is a paper boy by trade. At the same time, he is an underground, multi-day distance running legend. The film follows him trying to complete the 3,100 mile race and the year 2016 this race is the world's longest certified road race. It's almost 5,000 kilometers. It's just a few case short of five K 5,000 but it takes place all around a half mile, close to a kilometer along a loop. In the heart of New York city runners have to try to complete at least a hundred K a day for 52 days in order to finish the race. Under that window. It's grueling, but at the same time, although it sounds like an absolute misery Fest, a suffer Fest, people don't come out of it physically devastated. In fact, the only way you can actually tell the line for this type of mores is to have a deep understanding of the spirituality of long distance running. Speaker 4: (06:31) So in the film, not only do we follow Ash Briana, El Alto, but to kind of show how and why this race is even possible, we'd go back into time. We follow three other runners on their own quests, but runners who come from very deep traditional cultures of running a, we follow an ultra marathoner on the Navajo nation. In Arizona, we go to the Kalahari desert and Botswana at hunt with Bushman hunters who chase down game across two to three day law tracks. And we follow an aspirant in the Highlands of Japan who was doing a thousand day Trek of about 31,000 miles in the mountains outside of Kyoto. This shows the spirituality that's inherent to running that really fuels the runners in the 3,100 mile race. Speaker 3: (07:20) Wow. Well you preaching to the converted here and a lot of my audience, of course Evan runners. And what really surprises me, I mean I have to, I have to tell you a little bit of a story. I actually tried to get a documentary series done for discovery channel called run the planet and we actually uncovered, so the Kalahari, the Navajo, the, the Mount Tia amongst the, and a number of other tribes, people with stories and legends of doing long distance running. I didn't manage to pull it off. We did the the pilot for the series a in Australia reenacting an Aboriginal men story who ran 250 kilometers to save a friend of hers across the desert. And that was the end of the project unfortunately. But you actually manage the Paul was off which a huge amazing seat too though because I know what these sort of things take. Speaker 3: (08:17) But we, we came from the same premise that running is an inherently, we are born to run and stuff. The famous book is from Chris Google. We have born to run and we are made for this sort of long distance stuff and that we've done that throughout history. And you have uncovered these amazing people doing these incredible things. What's interesting for me is you've come from a very spiritual background and I've actually not come from that same background as a runner come more from the sporting and the, you know and I, I think I lived a lot of untapped potential sort of on the table looking back cause I didn't tap into the more spiritual side. I think I did to a certain degree without really understanding it. But you know, let's talk a little bit about Sri chum noise and what the races that he set up all around the world actually have to do with a 3,100 mile race. And, and your, your what, what your beliefs are around, she treats your NOI and has had a trick to long distance running. Speaker 4: (09:25) First of all. I so wish you'd completed that series. It sounds like it would have been awesome and I probably wouldn't have had to do this movie. Speaker 3: (09:33) It would have been complimentary, would've been awesome. Yeah. We didn't manage to pull it off. As, you know, there are lots of hurdles to jump through when you're totally, yeah. Speaker 4: (09:44) So, you know, to your question, I, I ran track in high school and I, I, I grew up in the United States and you know, the state that I grew up in, California has 35 million people. So a lot of people ran track, you know, but kind of got disillusioned from everything at university and ended up after graduation moving from the West coast of the U S to New York city where an Indian spiritual teacher named Sri Chinmoy lived his path really intrigued me because no harm, no foul, like there's no superiority or inferiority. But he really advocated a a pretty unified philosophy of not just making your heart strong and, and trying to develop the kind of beautiful qualities that we have inside, like love and peace and joy. But he also felt that physical fitness was a paramount importance to achieving that sense of inner peace. And so he came at running an exercise from a totally different vantage point than I did for me. Speaker 4: (10:45) You know, it was all about competition. And you know, when I was in high school, I would win a lot of races, but by the time I got to college, you know, I was no longer in that kind of top echelon. And you know how it is. It's like once you realize you're never going to be like at the very, very top, you know or, or you're not going to win every single race. I know you want a lot of races, you start really losing, you know, a sense of purpose. But when I came across region wise philosophy, it was totally different. You know, and, and this is reflective in all the cultures that we explore in 3,101 and become that there's something unique about running and we just have to take it on faith that unlike any other activity, however wonderful, whether it's tennis or swimming or biking, that running connects us to mother nature in a completely unique way. Speaker 4: (11:41) And when I, when you know, when I spent time with the Navajo and people will see in the film are our main Navajo character. Sean Martin says, when you run your feet are praying to mother earth, you're breathing in father sky. You're showing them, you're praying to them, you're showing them that you're willing to work for the blessings of mother earth. And that's a philosophy that I've seen reflected in traditional cultures all over the world. And that was in Sri Chinmoy. His philosophy, even though we don't actually, nobody really consider as Eastern philosophy as something that really revolves around an act of, of, of physical fitness, like running. Yeah. But in a sense, you know, it was men and women, humanity's first religion, that idea of connecting to nature and the energies both within and without through our feet. So when, when, when he kind of presented that to me and to others, that blew my mind, but I wasn't really ready for the philosophy. You know, I ran 800 meters and the 1500 meters, but when I moved to New York to study with them in 1997 that was the summer that the 3,100 mile race was launched and I hadn't, I hadn't even done a marathon. So the idea of doing 60 miles a day or 52 days just blew my mind. Speaker 3: (13:03) Yeah, absolutely. How does the human body, I mean I've, I've done, you know, the longest I've run is like through New Zealand, like 3000, 250 Ks in 42 days, which is not as much money per day is what they were doing. Given we were on the road and doing book tours and things at the same time. But the, the amount of pain in the suffering that you do go through and people have often said to me, did you reach this flow state? And then you became a, and I know that a lot of people experience that. And I, and I have to say I had had times or flow state when I was in a flow state, but unfortunately I couldn't leave a hole myself in that flow state. And the, the suffer face did, you know, it was about, you know, overcoming a lot of pain amazing levels of fatigue with a lot of willpower which we know as limited, you know, we will have a limited amount of willpower. Speaker 3: (14:09) And, and I was always hoping to reach that state of self transcendence really. And, and Neveah, but I hadn't been a catered myself to meditation and to the other sides of all that. Probably enough looking back which I'm much more into these days. But back then it was all about, you know, the physical, mental, the mental strength and the physical strength to actually prepare your body for this battle going in. And this is a completely different approach to what Sri, Jim NOI head and what these people that are doing the 3,100 have really it's, and I wonder how do they actually get to that, you know, as someone who's don't done a hell of a lot of running and not really achieved that flow state for long periods of time, at least how the heck do they do it. Speaker 4: (15:00) So there, there, there are two types of runners in the race and you know, again, no superiority or inferiority, but there are very few people on earth like you that have the mental fortitude to like will themselves through 40, 45, 50 days, you know, of of doing, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, a hundred Ks per day. Like, you know, that willpower will only take you so far. And, and in your darkest moments, you know, in the run, willpower is not going to offer you any light. If it's gone, then it's just Sufferfest. So a lot of people who come to the 3,100, whether they, there, they come from a background of faith or not, they realize either in their first attempt or beforehand that if they don't kind of develop access to a place within themselves where they can be happy, simply just happy in the worst moments. Speaker 4: (15:58) If they can't be in that flow state at will, then it's going to be a long 52 days. And you know, a lot of people, I would say probably at least a third to a half of people who do it the first time, you know, it's, it's it's a mixture of pleasure and pain and those moments like you experienced in, in your, in your cross-country run, those moments are enough to get you up the next day. But they're not necessarily gonna fuel every single mind mile. That said, it's like the people that come back and do it over and over and over, either through the race or outside the race, they really develop the power of meditation and at the same time, like unlike your race, and I think you'll appreciate this more than most, the reason why they do the race on a half mile loop is so that you have access to your aid every half a mile. Speaker 4: (16:53) You have access to a bathroom every half a mile. There's no traffic. There's foot traffic on this loop from just the public, but it's a pretty isolated area of New York and you don't have to worry about cars or anything. So in that sense your mind can like stop forgetting about the surroundings and, and it's, it's a lot easier that way. So that said, it's like this race, like the people that get the most out of it come at it the way you would now that come at it, knowing that you need to have access to that meditative side of you and you need to train with that in mind. It's like you have to find a way to find joy or happiness in those moments of exertion. And that doesn't come spontaneously out in the suffer Fest. You have to build that in your training. Speaker 3: (17:38) Yeah. And you have to develop that skill and the years and years of meditation, I should imagine to be able to reach that state. And that's something that fascinates me now. And I'm in, I'm developing, you know, those skills of late, but it's something that I wish on head back then instead of just the will and mindset. And I'm doing this no matter what. And, and it surprises me that how many people can override all of the the pain and the, you know, we do have an amazing ability to deal with things. But I cannot, I cannot, in all honesty, say to you, I enjoy it or I was happy in doing a lot of those races. There was a lot of, you know, I want to achieve this. It's a challenge. It's an opportunity to find out who I am. And I think when we, when we connect to nature and we do find out so much about ourselves and so even though I didn't approach it from a spiritual point of view, I think the stuff that I learned from it has been so, so powerful to helping me in, in everyday life. Speaker 3: (18:51) In, in getting through obstacles, other people that are doing these types of things, in your opinion just more, are they tapping into a higher power? Are they able to actually leave the the, the suffering behind in some way? Speaker 4: (19:12) That's a great question. So like going to the time that we spent with the Bushman and the Kalahari, these cultures that have been running for literally 125,000 years, they say you cannot separate running from God. Of course, if you want to run to become a better looking person running, we'll give that to you. If you want to run to become healthy running, we'll do that for you. But if you run with the intention, I mean this is wild, but if you run with the intention of getting closer to the divine part of yourself, to the divine part of the universe, whatever you, you label that as running, we'll get you there. I mean, just like if you meditate for just power of concentration, it'll do it. If you meditate to feel a little bit of peace, it'll do it. But if you meditate for a self discovery to discover the oneness you have with the divine, that's everywhere. Speaker 4: (20:07) Meditation will do that. And so when it, when it comes to running this particular race, people come into it as a pilgrimage. You know, you can either come into it what the mental attitude of like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to achieve this. But there was a runner on an Israeli multi-day champion and Coby Orrin who did the race, I think in 2017 and across the first thousand miles he was pushing. And he actually sat in Israeli national record for the fastest time to a thousand miles in the midst of this 3,100 mile race. But he realized that the true meaning of this race wouldn't reveal itself unless he moved into a completely different state of mind. And he realized that he had to take the race as a pilgrimage. And what that meant was not thinking about your splits, not thinking about how many miles you're doing each day, but really finding a way to focus on the meaning of each action of each step. Speaker 4: (21:06) And when he got into that sense of, or lack of expectation, and when he got into that sense of focus, he realized that there was, there was joy, there was actually happiness by looking at the moments, by looking at the specific actions and the steps and that happiness wasn't going to come. Looking at your watch or looking at your daily mile totals, that happiness kind of existed in the middle of all that. But again, it's like, it all sounds like fun and games, but unless we had that kind of intention, we don't actually find where happiness really exists. Speaker 3: (21:40) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, overcoming changing perspective. I mean, I never went into races with the, the thought of winning, to be honest, most of the time it was all about, you know, survival getting through to the other in some which way. And I've had some very spiritual type experiences underway. Perhaps induced by, you know, fatigue, sleep deprivation, those types of things, hallucinations. And the things that you actually discover about yourself are just absolutely mind blowing, even without the spiritual aspect. But I do wish now that I had gone more into that side of things to be able to overcome the limitations. You know, what worries me nowadays as a, as a running coach and we train $700 sleets all around the world is, is the danger that is involved with ultra marathon running. Because there is, you know, you can do permanent damage. Speaker 3: (22:44) I've done some damage to my body. Why do these guys not have physical damage from doing these extreme races or do they? I've had, you know, big problems with things like rhabdomyolysis kidneys, you know, not functioning properly from repeatedly breaking down too much muscle. Things like that, fibroid problems, adrenal problems, adrenal burnout. Do these guys ever suffer from those sort of normal physical breakdowns? Of course, muscle tears and in those sorts of things as well. And if not, why not? Why do they not have that limitation, those very human limitations on them Speaker 4: (23:26) That, that, that, that's a great question. You know, as, as opposed to most ultra distance running, I mean this is more akin to your, your, your 42 days across New Zealand where you can't push it. You know, you can't win the 3,100 mile race in a day, but you can lose it in a day and it's not wanting a 24 hour race where you can say like, I can push myself past the limit because I can sleep for two weeks and I can take care of like the damage I do across the next six months or a year with the 3,100. Imagine doing a hundred K then waking up again and doing it again and then waking up again and doing it again. And the, the, the leaders are, are, are at about 120 K per day. So it's a totally different mindset. I mean, you know, they can't, they Canyon say that when you run long distances, whether they're 10 Ks or marathons, you have to run dumb. Speaker 4: (24:20) The UMB like in the 3,100 you have to have like a real sense of softness between your ears. You know, even physiologically, it's like if your, if your mind is thinking and thinking and thinking, your face muscles get tense, which tenses up, you know, your upper cervical vertebra, which have ramifications all the way down your body and you start getting repeated. Use injuries. Your, your knees aren't aligned, your tabs aren't aligned. But frankly it all starts in the mind. And so if you can find a way not to be in your mind, to cultivate, you know, your heart, your spiritual heart, that things that you focused on in meditation and bring those feelings and emotions and sense of self, sense of peace, sense of joy into your one, then it becomes an entirely different experience physiologically. You know, you're much more in tune with what's going on. Speaker 4: (25:14) You're much more in tune with the sense of balance. You have more patients. But in that patience, when you're not pushing, you can also experience a sense of happiness that you, you, you typically don't get in shorter races. And when I mean shorter like, you know, 24 hours and less, where are you going? Like, I've got to get there. I've got to get there. I can't stop. I can't stop. You know, when you've got that type of an attitude in a race, you, you rarely dissociate from your mind. I mean, the trick for those of us wanting shorter races is finding ways in training like the Kenyans to completely get rid of expectation and to find a way to get into that flow state in the first couple of miles. Speaker 3: (25:53) Yup. Yeah. And it does association. I mean, I definitely use it to some degree, obviously not to the degree that I would like to have used it and being able to take your mind away from the pain and the suffering in the body. And that's one of the tools that I, you know, teach about a little bit. And I do find like when you get into a rhythm, a rhythm is something that that is meditative. And I'm often, if I'm running behind, someone will use their feet as a little flicker of they fry, they fried and they, it's almost a trance like state that you can get into. But I can't keep it in the forever. That's a, that's the key point I think. And that's the difference between these guys. So they are tapping into things that we as, you know, average not so spiritual human beings, if you like, for the ones who have a bit of expression and you know, can't tap into. Speaker 3: (26:52) And that's what I find absolutely fascinating because I know what it takes to run 70 Ks a day. I cannot imagine the amount of pain that it would take to run 120 days beyond. It's certainly beyond my physical limitations. And the, the amount of pain that you'd have to overcome us is, is phenomenal. But what you were saying there about stress and stress is I listened to an interview with dr Chatterjee that you were talking about stress and how, why can't AIDS epidemic in our world. And it's one of the killers and it's one of the most problematic things. And we are living in a cult stunt state of alertness and fight or flight sort of state because of the society that we live. And we're no longer being chased by lions, but we seem to be living in that constant state is meditation and using even this, running this self transcendent, running a way of calming the body and stopping those stress responses. Speaker 4: (27:59) So the curious thing is that running is humanity's oldest physical practice, maybe dance as well. That movement through your feet and there is something electric when you're aware of it, between the connection between mother earth and our feet, our lungs breathing in oxygen and air, there's something deeply nourishing and effecting that way. At the same time, meditation is humanity's oldest practice of contemplation. Not just getting rid of stress, but understanding who we are, why we're here, what we're meant to do in any given moment. And meditation gives us access to different parts of our body and our, or of our being, I should say. It's like we've got a tool belt on and we've got 15 sets of tools, but we're using a hammer 24 hours a day. You know, it's like we might not even know all the other tools that we've got, but meditation is a very simple, very natural way for people to go, wow, when I'm stressed, I don't have to like think about it. Speaker 4: (29:05) I don't have to like, you know, just become obsessed with what's going on. There's another part of me that will allow me to feel something different, to allow time, for example, to take its course at the same time. If, if this dress requires something hyper-focused, you know, we can pull that tool out and apply it to the moment and get rid of that stress in a very constructive, you know, analytical way. Some meditation and running, you know, are really the two oldest tools that we have. But it's a question of, of coming back to that as, as a civilization, as a species. And you know, obviously as individuals we can come back to that just, you know, we just have to, we just have to take those first steps. Speaker 3: (29:45) Well, I actually had to an argument or not an argument, but a discussion with reduce your, of the, the portal, which is a new movie that's come out. Tom Cronin, who was on the podcast a few weeks ago and he was, he's, it's all about meditation and the power of meditation to heal the whole world. And I'm a very, very interesting man. And I said to him, I believe meditation running is a meditation. And he said to me, no, it's not a meditation. It's running. And I said, I know, and I had this discussion with an amazing no, because running you are in a sympathetic nervous system state and you're not in a parasympathetic state. Speaker 4: (30:23) It's that if for four, I would say for most people not myself included. That was true up until a few years ago. But I F I was trying to understand why the people who do the 3,100 mile race, most of them come back and do it a second time, a third time. The main character in the movie, Ashby Hunnel, you know, did it again last summer for get this a grand total of 15 times he's completed that race 15 times when when you understand that running and meditation can actually go together, you know, and you've explore what that truly means. I mean, again, it's, it's not simply the fact and I, I get where he's coming from. It's not simply saying like, my running is my meditation. The way that chopping onions is my meditation. It's like, you know, I, I get the kind of like, you know, hyperbole that that comes with that. But if you get into a state in running where you're completely beyond your mind, where you're completely in that flow state and, and you know, it's like the definition or the flow state is not an absence of pain, but it's finding happiness in the, in that exertion. And there there was a Hopi elder. Hopi is there. There are tribes in central Arizona, some of the best runners anywhere Speaker 3: (31:46) We uncover the swipe for that with a series. Yeah. Speaker 4: (31:50) Yes. W a Hopi elder had told us when I was on a prayer run with a bunch of native kids in Arizona, he told us as, as we headed off for monument Valley, he said, find joy through exertion. And that was mind blowing to me because how many of us, when, when we're really working hard, number one, feel joy, number one or number two, even know that we can feel joy in those moments of intense effort. And he said, not only do you need to realize that joy exists in the most extreme forms of exertion, but you can find it. You just have to be aware of it and find a way to, to tap into it. I mean, that totally changed the way I race that only that changed the way I run. It's like in those moments when you're really pushing to learn that joy actually exists there. Speaker 4: (32:43) That you can go beyond that pain by tapping into joy. I mean that that's how to get into flow. That's literally step one and to getting into flow. And when you're in that flow state as, as you know, it's like you can have experiences or you can tap into those same places within your being that you try to get to in your highest form of meditation. That said, learning and knowing how to meditate is going to help you get into that state a lot easier. And if you get into that state and running, you're going to be able to get into that state when you're meditating. So I completely disagree based on experiences that I've had personally, but more importantly, seeing these cultures that have understood the connection between prayer running and the spirit for tens of thousands of years. Speaker 3: (33:33) Oh, I'm so glad you've said that because I've, you know, had a debate with myself over the last few weeks because I took him on what he said, and I thought, well, that's probably got an element of truth about, you know, we're looking at the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system, and you, when you are in the meditative state, you have to be in the sympathetic state. But I have that, I've had that experience of being in a meditative state, running granted I can't do it on demand, but I have been there. So I, I was having trouble with that sort of like autonomy, if you like. They, they're sort of opposites. And that gives me permission to go back to the thought. And yes, actually there's a type of meditation and it is a powerful one and it's something that I've missed like the last four years. Speaker 3: (34:19) Sandra, you you wanna know, but I had a mom who had a mess of aneurysm and my listeners know the story and was in a vegetative state, basically would have any high function at the age of 74. And obviously the last four years I just stopped doing the long distance running because I had to completely focus on her rehab and that, you know, they're trying to make a living was all there was 24 hours in a day basically. And now four years later, I've just written her book. It comes out in March this year. It's called relentless and tells the story of, of bringing her back and she's now completely normal again. At the age of 78 against all odds. And I created, I created this comeback journey that I've been on with her, on to the fact that I've done this running. Speaker 3: (35:06) If I had not have had the mental skillset that I developed through running, I wouldn't have been able to, to do the things that I did with here to look outside the square to, to push through boundaries that most people would have, you know, quit long, long time ago. And to go up against some medical system and say, no, this is the, she will come back. And this the story is very powerful because it's in why I'm so passionate about getting this book out there is because it taps into these types of tools that we discover when we are doing these extreme things like you know, running long distance races and we learned stuff about ourselves and then how the body works and how that we are capable of so much more than what your average local doctor will tell you. What capable of, I mean, have you ever been to a local doctor and they've said, look, you can't run anymore. You've got a sore knee. Yeah, Speaker 4: (35:59) Yeah. I mean, I mean th th th the thing to understand is that we physiologically evolved as runners. You know, from, from an evolutionary biology standpoint and all your, all your listeners will know that the humanities first advantage as bipedal beings was number one, unlike Quadra peds, we could step without having to breathe. Many people can imagine what a dog looks like or a horse looks like in full sprint when their legs are extended, you know, splayed out on the, on the an extension. Their lungs, inhale air. When the legs come together as they all do, they all come together in the middle of the, of the center of gravity. It's like that's when the lungs are forced to expel air. So they're incredible anaerobic beings, but we're the only animals by virtue of standing on two feet that can like trot and not have to breathe every single time we take a step. Speaker 4: (36:56) And so that's given us a tremendous sense of endurance. You know, we can breathe, you know, multiple times per step, which Quadro peds can't do. And you know, we can, we can breathe every three or four steps, which also keeps our Arabic level kind of pretty low. So it's like, if you, if you look at that, you know, human beings are meant to move on our feet. The things that take us away from that state of being are all the, all the afflictions of modern day life. But I would say weirdly enough, like I, I'm on the medical team at the 3,100 mile race too, and 95% of the day to day trauma that the runners face. The pain, you know, we can take away through a deep tissue, we can take away through Raul thing, but it tends to come back day in and day out. And when that starts happening to runners, I tell them like, look, your problems are mental. Speaker 4: (37:50) Like there's no reason why if these problems are taken away through through some sort of therapy that they, that they should come back the next day. I find that 90% of injuries that people have through, you know, basically through a non-traumatic running racing is totally different. But when you're just in training and you're just doing like low stress low intensity type of stuff, you know, maybe heavy miles, the injuries that are repeated use injuries are really due to bad form, which really comes from a state of mental unrest from a state of anxiety and not allowing the mind to release. And then the body subsequently to release. Speaker 3: (38:31) There's not so much rinks in the core strength and you know, like we teach about, you know, you've got to have a strong core and strong had some things to be able to be upright. You were saying it's more of a mental stimulus. That's, that's the problem that we are because of the stress that we're all under or that we are thinking we are under we're actually inflicting that on our bodies as, as much as anything else. Speaker 4: (38:56) I mean of course is since most of us don't spend day to day, you know, I spend, spend our day to day kind of inner body the way we might've as hunters and gatherers. Yeah. Yeah. We need to do all the range of motion, all the core activities that we don't get from our, our, our standard nine to five jobs. Yeah. But still like you have plenty of students that do all of that and that still gets Phantom injuries. Yep. And then I'll take it Speaker 3: (39:22) Good. You know, I can do everything and I'll still be struggling with one or two injuries Speaker 4: (39:27) And that come that that comes entirely from the mind. Like the 3,100 mile race is a great Petri dish for it. Because like I said, like, you know, like LA last summer, Ashby hunt all did it and I was, his handler. It, I would kind of take care of his afflictions, you know, every break he had every six or eight hours. And after a few days of of him having calf pain and taking it away through simple, you know, deep tissue or, or Rolfing or, or, or you know, active release stuff. And I just told them like, I can take care of this every single day. But the reason why you're having these problems is somehow you're, you're not running fluidly, you know? And that comes in that race from overthinking, from stressing out, for thinking about stuff that you shouldn't be thinking about. Mainly from, from thinking at all. Speaker 4: (40:18) Yeah. And so I go, I go back to the time I go back to the time we spent with Sean Martin on the Navajo reservation. We're all you're supposed to do when you run is listen to the sound of your feet. Breathe in the universe through your lungs. And when you do that, you begin to feel the importance of the connection of your feet and mother earth and your breath and father sky. And that nourishes you. And that gives you the sense of happiness that you need from running. But most of us, myself included when I go for a run and looking at my watch, I'm looking at my pace, I'm thinking about my workout. I might think about like, you know what I'm going to eat afterwards, what I'm going to do afterwards. My, my, my, my experience of running is already done, you know, and I'm getting nothing out of each moment. I'm only just checking off a workout. And that's the difference. It's like unplugging from our playlist, you know, you can run with a GPS watch. We all do. But not worrying about what your watch says to you, but listening to yourself, listening to your thoughts, listening to your heart, and taking, running as a spiritual discipline rather than as an escape. I mean, that's when the fruits of running really, really coming to the fore. Speaker 3: (41:34) Yeah. And I'm just going back briefly to that story with mum. The difficulty if I haven't been able to do the long distance running in the, in the last, you know, three and a half, four years and I've missed the clarity of mind that came with it. You know, when you, when you spend hours a day running is indulgence as that sounds. It actually, you know, I had time to work through the problems that I was facing in my life and to get them out, it's very cathartic, sort of a, a thing to do. And when you don't have that, you can be missing that piece quite badly. And then, you know, so they, I think running is a physical release and a spiritual release in a, in a mental release. It's a, it's all rolled into one and the connection that you say to, to mother earth. Speaker 3: (42:28) And I think this is one of the major, major problems that especially our young generation are facing because we so on devices and we so connected all of the time that we have no time to just be in our own thoughts or just being with ourselves and to just be in movement. We just constantly wanting entertainment or connection. And, and not being connected to mother Ruth not being outside in the burning sun, the freezing rain, the, all of those things that really make us feel good. You know, when you go for a run in a storm, you can't come back, you know, if anything but invigorated and like alive, you know. And it might've been hard and it might've been cold and it might've been this, but you're alive. You're, you're feeling you're alive. And I think that they, in their very artificial world where everything's air conditioned and we jumped from Avalon to a garage, into the car and off to the mall and you know, all of these things is just disconnecting us so completely from, from the way that we are meant to be living generally, like outside of just running, but just not being connected to nature is, is killing us, I think. Speaker 3: (43:44) Do you agree? Speaker 4: (43:46) I'm, I'm totally with you now. You know, imagine that 3,100 mile race on a city block. It's sidewalk. Almost a K it's, but it's a square. So it's like you're going around right angles. It takes place in New York city summer, you know, for for almost eight weeks where the temperature last summer climbed above 41 42 seas. For a day or two. But much of the time in, in the heat of the day, you know, you're talking between 32 and 36 Celsius. Again, it's like unrelenting. You're pretty close to some major roads. There's buildings all around and it's not like you're running through the grand Canyon, but that, but that said, it's like if you're, you know, on the South Island or if you're in the grand Canyon, it's really easy to feel the power of mother nature. But our, our Navajo character's father is a, is a as a medicine man. Speaker 4: (44:39) And he told me mother earth is under the sidewalk to no mother earth is under the asphalt. That is mother earth. So on this course, you know, people are, are desperately, desperately struggling to maintain their connection to nature despite being in an urban setting. And you know, when you've got that type of intense focus on what you need when it comes to you, it's, it's in a much higher dosage than you can imagine. So like, yeah, in the 3,100, that connection to mother earth, even though they're running around in circles on a sidewalk, it's absolutely essential. Speaker 3: (45:16) Absolutely. And that you don't need, you know, people often say, well we don't lock them did on these rices and the Sahara and the Gobi desert and Dave belly and Australia and all like Himalayas. To be honest, actually it wasn't about, Speaker 4: (45:33) Yeah, Speaker 3: (45:33) The views, it wasn't about what you were seeing, keeping you going. In fact, most of the time, unfortunately, you know, your heat is usually down on the ground trying not to fall over the next thing or you're so, so tired. You can have the enjoy your surroundings very often. And, and of course it is more inspiring to at least go to these places and you know, in the before and the after and the cultural exchange that you have. But actually during the race, it's not about the beauty, you know, it's and running around and ran a block or running through a desert. They're both connected the both outside and nature. Like you say, they both are. Speaker 4: (46:15) And w one of the great things about this race happening in New York is that whatever you need, whether it's a new pair of shoes, whether it's a very specific type of medicine you're in New York city, someone will be able to get a volunteer. We'll be able to get it for you within a couple of hours. And as you know, it's like when you travel for these like international ultras, very often if you don't have something with you is stuffed, you are not going to get it. Yeah. It's not going to be a good experience for you. Speaker 3: (46:44) No, it must be. Yeah, it definitely has a be a great advantage to have all of the things around you and that half-mile block, although it's, you know, mind numbing and people think, Oh gosh, going around in a circle. I mean I've only done like 24 hour races, but they are easier than running across the desert per se, where you don't have access to anything. And if you've forgotten something, you're in deep, deep trouble, physically in trouble. But it does become about the mind and what you are, what you were doing. The so this, this movie is coming to New Zealand. This phone was [inaudible]. Speaker 4: (47:23) Yeah. Yeah. So from February 10th through, we'll be traveling from, I think we're going to be an Oakland, Wellington, Christchurch maybe a few other places in between doing single nights screenings. The information is going to be up on our Facebook page, which I think is facebook.com forward slash 3,100 film and afterwards, after the 20th, that you can't make, one of those screenings will be up on all the online platforms. But Lisa, I would love to have to be able to, to, to ask you questions at one of our screenings. You know, I'm not sure what city you're in, but Speaker 3: (48:02) It would be fun. It would be really, really fun. I think we can make that happen. I live in a little place called new Plymouth, so you probably not coming here, although that would be awesome. But I can travel to, you know, walking into Wellington or something to make sure that I get to see this and I've seen the movie. But to actually meet you would be of course just, you know. Awesome. and you know, people out there, how do they get tickets so they can just go onto Facebook and find out where the screenings are. Get me tickets via that way. Speaker 4: (48:30) Yeah. The, the, the, the movie screenings are going to be in proper theaters and all of those cities. And so, you know, on our Facebook page there's links to the times and dates and we're going to be adding a few more things here and there. But yeah, all the tickets can be purchased online. Speaker 3: (48:45) Fabulous. And we will put all the links in the, in the show notes and stuff and all that. I do want to ask you a couple more questions about you and your background because you've had a fascinating life. This isn't the first movie you've done. Tell us about how did you get into filmmaking? Cause I'm very fascinated by filmmaking. I made a couple of, well eight documentaries, but on a very, very low budget documentaries. And I know I want to know, you know, how did you fall into this area and do the amazing things that you've done. So tell us a little bit about your life. Speaker 4: (49:19) I, I'm, I'm a Jack of all trades, master of none. Know I, I moved from California to New York to basically, you know, S to just study what's rich and white and spend a few years even with a good university degree, you know, just spend a few years working in health food stores and just, you know, getting to understand who I was and what I really wanted to do in life before launching into a career or whatnot. But switch in my head a lot of friends from other Theresa to Desmond Tutu and Mikhail Gorbachev and Mandela. And as I got more interested in kind of humanity specifically in, in like international development, humanitarian aid, human rights, I began having opportunities to work with some most rich and moist friends. So I got a chance to, to work with Desmond Tutu and you know, a ton of other people and gradually kind of like made my way into the world of humanitarian aid and human rights. Speaker 4: (50:18) So I kind of worked in that, in that sphere for about 15 years till around 2010, 2011. And you know, realize that a lot of the projects that I really, really enjoyed were ones that required me to take photos or to make little small documentaries, just being the only person with a camera for hundreds of miles. And I began making some short films, like my first one that most of them have been on sports, weirdly enough. My, my first one was called ocean monk and it was like an, a personal exploration of the connection between meditation and surfing in the winter in New York city. Of all things. I mean there is surfing like you know, in New York city in the winter here, you know, you might walk through, you know, half a meter of snow or a meter of snow to get to the water. But you can imagine like when the city's going like 24 hours a day to be out in the water was no one else around is probably the only experience of real nature we can get in New York city. Speaker 4: (51:21) But my, my second film explored, you know, kind of a curious aspect of streets and noise life. You know, after he stopped being able to do distance running, he took up weightlifting and he left, he lifted astronomical pounds, you know, in fact, when I was in New Zealand in 2002 and 2003 I was actually on a three month trip with him and one of, one of the cutest things he did was he went to a farm, you know, not too far away from Topo. A sheep farm and sheep are put into little cages and put onto this contraption that's reaching. Mike could sit under and he would like push up, you know, a cage with a sheep on each hand and you know, lifted a thousand sheep. It was just, it was really, really cute and childlike but also kind of mind boggling. And the physicality. Speaker 4: (52:11) I made a film called challenging and possibility, but then kind of went back to my human rights roots and made a film about the exploitation of farm workers in the United States. And that was, that actually achieved some success. You know, we had some famous people that were involved, Forrest Whitaker and then this movie 3,100 run and become was my second, you know, big feature length project. Wow. Oh, I should add as well. Just jumping back to the last topic that there have been two Kiwis that have done that 3,100 mile race, a man named Jade Lynn who did it I think in 2006 but there is a three time female finisher of the race. Hurry to Davey's. She lives in the States, but she's actually gonna be in New Zealand with us for all these screenings. They, cause she's doing a series of events during that time called the peace run. It just basically, it's like a, an Olympic torch style relay where they're going to be running from Oakland all the way down. You know, obviously what the ferry all the way down to Christchurch and stopping in a zillion schools. So she'll be at all though. She'll be at all the screenings too. I'll get to make a hopefully. Speaker 3: (53:27) And we also have another very famous lady. He used to do the 2000 kilometer race in New York city. Sandy Barwick. Oh yeah. Cause she's [inaudible] who was my role model. I feel like as a little girl growing up and who, who came with me to the family when I ran through death Valley, an incredible woman fates that again, just defy I think she had nine world records. I think some of them still stand. So we've got a, you know, great tradition in New Zealand of incredible runners and, and she was certainly way above where it, anywhere I ever got to. So we've got some amazing people. And on the note of shirt tree, Jim, he wanted to tell you just a little cute story. I was in the nationals. We have the streets of NOI, 24 hour race in Oakland every year. Speaker 3: (54:17) And it was, she was actually very, very sad while we were doing it was, it was in 2007 and we were doing the 24 hour race and a day before the race. [inaudible] He died as you would. Well, and, and so the people were devastated who were organizing. Right. And so they all just dropped everything and flew to New York basically. And I didn't really understand the whole street and rowing movement at that stage. I just, just was a runner turning up to the race to run and all of a sudden the rice was no longer happening. So one of the other runners and I, we decided we're doing it anyway, so we just, we ran around the track for hours. Well, I need actually made it to 20 hours that they ended. It was a absolutely torrential rain. The poor people in the street show me the way that were just so devastated. Speaker 3: (55:16) I just had to go, you know, they just had to be there to say goodbye to the master. And it was just a really for us back home running around in the rain, me and one other guy. And it was one of those special memories because it wasn't an official race. It wasn't going to be the official national race. And I'd been trying for years to qualify for the New Zealand team to go to the world champs. So I had to wait another year before I qualified, but we did get there in the end. But yeah, just the dedication to him was, was really moving and that they all just, they just dropped tolls and all just flow to, to New York overnight. It was really they were so, they were so devastated, obviously. Because he was such a great man and, and it was a man who, who really unified the religions rather than, you know, things are, don't matter. From what I understand. He was a very unifying figure. And yeah, for sure. I mean, his philosophy was, was, was love of God. Again, from an Eastern tradition, we don't really have the singular Speaker 4: (56:24) Concept of, of God being just, just, you know, a masculine energy, you know, it can be anything and everything. And, you know, we, we worship many different forms of, of the divine. But you know, his was about, you know, kind of an ancient path that way. But at the same time it was very accepting of people no matter what their backgrounds were. And, you know, he felt that you could live in the outer world and still achieve the highest. You didn't necessarily need to become a monk and renounce everything. And I know he loved New Zealand, you know, he, he had a, he's had a long friendship with a number of Kiwi runners like Alison Rowe, who he, I think he first met during the the New York city marathons. And you know, just to my great benefit, when we opened the movie in theaters in New York city and in November of 2018, it was during the week of the New York city marathon. And Alison was there to be inducted in the New York city marathon hall of fame, and she came to one of our screenings and did a panel. So I got to meet a lifelong hero of mine. And yeah. It's like, it's interesting because all the people that I've met through each and Moy still have, you know, you know, some sort of a connection with activities that his followers still kind of hold around the world. Speaker 3: (57:41) Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, even my life. So through that we connected in some weird, weird, bizarre way, you know, and that's fantastic. And, and th the, the one that you did was the on the food food chain. Tell us a little bit about the food chain movie. And that was all about the, the site of conditions for workers migrant workers. Speaker 4: (58:04) Yeah. So most countries require some sort of foreign labor to pick their food. And especially when you're looking at like industrialized countries. I mean even England, you know, has had pre-Brexit you know, had a lot of, a big requirement for Polish workers, for Chinese workers, for Thai workers to come seasonally to pick food. You know, we know these are the hardest, most labor intensive jobs anywhere in the world and most people in developed countries don't want to do that kind of work no matter how much it pays. But in as we know it, those types of jobs don't pay much at all. I guess the big corollary in the South Pacific are the, the fishing fleets with a lot of indenture Thai workers, Filipino workers, Burmese workers working in essentially some in some cases like realistically slave like conditions. But the movie really delves not just interpersonal stories but looks at the kind of economic system behind it. Speaker 4: (59:05) Most of us, most places in the world kind of follow a food system that America set up. And that's like a supermarket grocery system where we expect to buy the cheapest possible food, good quality, but like very low prices. And w you know, Walmart in the U S a big chain kind of started that. And from their standpoint, they insisted on buying it ultra low prices from farmers and from meat producers and dairies, but buying in very, very high volume. And that created a set of conditions that not only had made it really hard to be a farmer in the us, but has made farm work essentially, you know, extremely low wage. Now we've see, we see these supermarkets all over the world and this is really a model that was created in the U S and exported to other countries. Even though you know, obviously there's, there's chains that are completely, you know, owned by people in their country. Speaker 4: (01:00:04) But when that supermarket system, that idea of convenience and being able to have the same types of food, you know, 365 days a year, that's made us in the U S rely on a lot of like New Zealand blueberries. But at the same time, you know, you guys get a lot of stuff into your country that are, that are not seasonal, that aren't grown in New Zealand, but that you still expected very low prices and we don't necessarily know the ripple down the food chain that it's causing farmers to really, really make very little at the same time. It creates this reliance on labor that's very colonial, that's very almost kind of feudal as well. And that's what the, the movie food chains kind of looks into. Speaker 3: (01:00:47) Well thank you for bringing it to light because it is a worldwide problem and that, you know, we have migrant workers here as well from the islands. You know, I, when I was the young girl I used to work on, on fruit, on, you know, Apple picking and kiwifruit cracking, I can tell you it's bloody hard work and very little money. Speaker 4: (01:01:07) Yeah. So yeah, so you, you, you, you, you absolutely know that it's, it's not something you would ever want to do the rest of your life. Speaker 3: (01:01:15) Oh my, no, definitely not. I'd rather run the 3,100 actually. There you go. There you go. Look st I would have taken up so much of your time today and I just really wanted to thank you for all the work you do, all the goodness that you put out into the world because it's very, very powerful what you are sharing and you're making people think and you're making people aware of some of these humanitarian stuff that you've done earlier. And also with this new wonderful movie that you bought out, everybody, you have to go and see this movie. It is, if you're into running, obviously you have to go. But if you are into just finding out about what the human body is capable of, what the human mind is capable of, and you want to see very average. And I put that into, you know, a quotation marks, average looking, average appearing, people doing incredible things. Speaker 3: (01:02:06) And that's the beautiful thing about ultra marathon running. We don't all look like Hussein bolt or Paula Radcliffe or or some, you know, elite specimen. We just normal people, but with very, very strong minds and strong willpower to do things. And in this case, it's all about the spiritual side as well. So thank you very much for doing this movie, for putting it out there. And I can't wait to see it and I hope we can connect and not, I can get to one of those screenings that would be absolutely fabulous. Meet you. It'll make my entire trip worthwhile. Right. We've got to make that happen. Thanks for not Sanjay. Thanks so much, Lisa. Speaker 1: (01:02:48) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.

In this episode, Lisa talks to her business partner/Coach Neil Wagstaff about resetting your mindset and how to get your brain to do what it should.   We all have goals and plans and as we head into a new year we are all making new years resolutions and dreaming of what the year could bring us.    But how often do you fall off the bandwagon, how often do you sabotage your own goals and don't know why. Neil and Lisa discuss tricks to get your mind on track, to developing new habits, reprogramming your subconscious to get onboard with the plan and how to trick the limbic brain into doing what your conscious brain wants.     We would like to thank our sponsors:   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff   If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here and I am once again with Neil Wagstaff. How are you doing Neil? I'm good, I'm very good. And tonight Neil and I, this is just before Christmas that we were recording this and we want to, you know, we're coming up to new year's and time to reflect on what you did this year and it might be playing for next year's goals that you want to sit out. And we thought we would do a session on resetting your mindset. I knew. So we want to go over some tips and tricks and some things we use. Think about when you're setting goals and how you going to be able to stay on the right track more often. So first of all, you've got to set some goals. I knew where do we go from here? Speaker 3: (00:56) Is this the best place to start? Make sure there's a, there's a goal in a goal in place and make sure it's a clear goal. Make sure it was well outlined and make sure, most importantly, once you've got the goal in place, you understand why you are doing it. Speaker 2: (01:09) Why, why the why, the why. The why is a really important fact to see if you have a goal in itself. It's, it's in it. It's nothing. It's just a piece of paper that you wrote something or it's all of those. It's when you start unpacking the why that you want to get this goal. That's when you come into the emotional triggers and your values and all this sort of stuff that actually creates the action that actually creates the, the, the ability for you to overcome the obstacle obstacles in order to get to that goal. So it's really important to understand your why. Now when you're working with a client, what do you do to pull out the why if you like, Speaker 3: (01:53) Hey, it's, it's really making sure it's down in your, it's written down in your words, your language. It's, it's used, used the words that you, you actually come out of your mouth, the language you use. So as an example of someone had been very stereotypical, says they're gonna they might not want to lose weight and I'm going to then continuously ask why. And it's like literally peeling back the layers of an onion. So we want to, as you said, get deeper and deeper, fond at the emotional reason that's driving that. And once you keep putting back the layers, why, why do you want to lose? Why'd you want to lose weight? Well, I want to lose weight because I want to feel more confident. Okay. Why do you want to feel more confident? Because I want to be able to comfortably company run half marathon. Speaker 3: (02:33) Okay. And why'd you want to run the half marathon? Because I want to be a good role model for my children. Okay. And why do you want to do that? Because my dad wasn't a good role model to me, so I want to step up now, make sure that I'm really a straight to my children, that I'm moving and being regularly healthy. And am regularly active is, is what we need to do to, to move forward in a productive way. Once you get all those layers back, we've then got the words that you jump out. There will be things like confidence, health activity, role model, and then we can put that into a statement that actually means something. And that's the key thing is the statement that the all clients have in front of them should mean something to them. And then that statement, we are statements to write down on paper and then that is then put somewhere that they can see it on a regular basis daily. Speaker 3: (03:21) And for some people who are really encouraged to actually rewrite it on a weekly basis. So whether that's taught into update it into a Google doc or it's actually written down and rewritten. So that is just front of mind writing. We've, the experience I've had and firstly from doing myself actually having to write it out, just brings it back front and center again. You know, I want to be, for me, my key words that have been, I've been enrollment of my children being a superhero for them. I want them to look up at me like I'm a, I'm a superhero, so I want to remind myself that on a regular basis so that that's my why and once I put that clearly in my head, understand and let me do a little bit of work on purpose as well, but that's probably another podcast in itself. Speaker 3: (04:00) But really once you've got the goal written on paper, clearly there, then that is what you're going to base your daily decision on. Because if you really want to get to that and achieve it and get to that half marathon, do it in a time. You won't be the wrong mode. You want be the be the superhero you want to be. Then each day when you're making your decisions, you make your decisions purely based on your goal that's clear in your heads. And if it's not clear and you don't understand why, then it's so, so easy to take the wrong path and make the wrong decision each day because you're not very, very clear on what you're doing. If you're a hundred percent clear on what you're doing and taking the right path and making the right decision is a whole lot easier. Speaker 2: (04:38) Yup. And we have like two to 300 decisions a day to make. And so this is really, really important that we have these goals and these are the reasons why in the front of our brain all the time that it's how, and I actually find two that actually working that physically on an old fashioned note and piece of paper much better than on a computer. I find that it just, it gets in your brain more, you know, and you have it in front of you. And when we come to, I call them lawyer folk in the road, each decision that we have as a fork in the road and I can just decide to go lift, which will lead me to the path towards more success than the other one is away from the goals that I want to have. And if we take the, you know eating chocolate, what am I definite weaknesses in life is a chocolate and right. Speaker 2: (05:22) So when I come to the decision, I actually want to eat less chocolate. The chocolate sitting there in front of me and I can decide I'm going to either eat it because it tastes good or I can stick to my goals, which won't be to lose weight or to, to have a healthier diet. And then when I understand the why behind it, I can take a little bit more of a zoomed out view instead of just the taste and the immediate impulse. So we as human beings tend to run on Sudi sick and decision making impulses. And if we can to lay a decision for just a few seconds, sometimes we can override then impulse to just stick the chocolate in your mouth. Right? And, and so w when we zoom out a little bit and we see what's around the corner, cause often we come to a fork in the road and all you can see is the chocolate. Speaker 2: (06:12) Yes or no. You can't actually see you like you, you're not thinking about, well if I eat this chocolate and I do this behavior repeatedly is obviously one piece of chocolate isn't going to be a problem. But if I do this behavior repeatedly, then around the corner as perhaps disease round the corner is obesity around the corner was diabetes. And, and while negative health outcomes I say, and not a motivator, it's still a good thing to be able to zoom out and to understand, well actually I want to be fit. I want to feel good. When I got to the beach, the sear on the summer and we my bikini, I, I want to, you know, whatever it is that moves and motivates you, seen as more likely to be at least a ten second sex discussion in your mind about whether you're going to do it. Speaker 2: (06:56) And sometimes you'll start to win in those discussions. If you can just delay the impulse a little bit is as human beings we and this is scientists speaking, not me. We all go towards pleasure and away from pain. We don't like to move ourselves towards painful decisions. And, and when I first heard this, I was like, I don't agree with it. I, I, you know, running a marathon definitely can be painful. I knew, you know, or an ultramarathon there's a hell of a lot of pain and discipline and overcoming yourself. And they said yes, but you're still going towards pleasure because you bigger goal. And again, we're looking at the zoomed out view is actually leading you towards more pleasure. The goal of having the marathon done the middle around your neck, that, that feeling of achievement. So you are moving towards pleasure and that pleasure is bigger than the pain of having to overcome yourself to get out the door to go training this morning. Speaker 2: (07:54) Does it make sense? So the pleasure and pine thing, it can be just an immediate impulse, the pleasure of that Tyson, that chocolate is going to make me eat it right now. Or I take a slightly zoomed out view at the bigger goal and w w w worked towards the pleasure of being fitter and stronger and losing weight or whatever the goal is. And remember, this stuff is not just about food and training. This is not just about that. This is what every goal you have in your life and your career and your business. If you can take this, this method, if you like, this framework that we're trying to give you and see this as a real fork in the road. Get a picture with a, you know, a tree in the middle of the road that goes left in a road that goes right and picture that in your brain. And when you come to those decision points, try and think about what's around the corner and what is my bigger goal and zoom out a little bit and at the beginning, Neal, isn't it? Isn't it true that when you be stopped starving you habit, it's a really tough road at the, Speaker 3: (08:56) This is real, real hard and it's not. If it was easy, then we'd all be doing the right stuff all the time, but it's a real, what's worked for me personally and everyone we're working with is just really, you've got a fork in the road and just understanding that doing small things consistently will can lead you down the bad road. So consistently, as you said, in chocolate in small pieces daily will eventually lead to the you somewhere. You don't want to be consistently having four or five coffee today daily. In the short term it provide pleasure, but in the longterm it's going to take it somewhere you want to be. If you flip it round and often the Creighton, the new habit, it feels quite overwhelming. There's going to be a real big, big challenge, but if you just pick one or two things and work out, if I consistently do those day in, day out, it doesn't need to be massive things. Speaker 3: (09:45) It could be simply walking for an additional 15 to 20 minutes a day. It could be drinking a little bit more water each day. It could be something real simple, but you work out. I consistently do that and I do that every day, day in, day out. Then all of a sudden the path to the pleasure and the longterm goal gets a whole lot easier. So it's not massive things you need to look at and that's where a lot of people end up taking the wrong puffs. It's actually just too much to do and it's really not. It's consistently just the little things. And to your point, looking at 30 seconds of immediate pleasure looking out across and above that and into the future and seeing that, right? If I just leap frog over that go this way, then all of a sudden the results start coming. Speaker 3: (10:27) Health changes, body changes, how you're feeling changes. And now it becomes easier to make, make more future future decisions by agreed, yes. The habit for me is is the tough part, but consistent little bits each day and work out what are you willing to commit to? What can you commit to? Because a site, a lot of people's at, if you could be 50% further ahead from where you are now, would you take that and everyone goes, well yeah, so it's not like we're asking you to make a huge change. If you can make some a 50% improvement, which percentage wise doesn't sound massive, but some changes that are quiet re give you 50% improvement. That's goal. If you're 50% in three months time than you are today. That's some big improvements from a health point of view. Some big improvements from a fitness point of view, big improvements from a mindset point of view, big improvements from a business point of view. Whatever you apply this to is it gives you some big, some some big wins and I'll ask the question as well. What's the one thing if you did it consistently each day, who would make the biggest difference to your goal? Yeah, Speaker 2: (11:27) The 80 20 rule. Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3: (11:29) One thing that I'm trying to do. Lots of little things. What's the one thing that will give you the biggest, best bang for your buck? What that out and then just go go at that. Because in a amongst time you're going to be glad this is Speaker 2: (11:42) In chopping things up into little bits that you can handle when you hear it. You know, it's like that analogy that I've used a lot of times about running through New Zealand and being totally overwhelmed by the thought of this 2000 plus kilometers and mum going to me just get to the Dame through Apple for status. Stop thinking about all that stuff. You know like if I say to, I'm going to eat healthy for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the rest of my life, that's never going to happen. Cause on I myself, I know I'm not always going to win and that's okay. But if I say to myself like, I'm going to have five good dinners this week and I'm going to, I'm gonna not have a takeaways or something, then that's a small goal and I can manage this week and I'm focusing on just one or two things at a time. Speaker 2: (12:25) There was also, you know, when you, when you make a habit and you, you, you starting to develop a new habit, it takes about 60 days for the brain to be able to actually make a new pathway in the head. So we have what they call neural pathways. Now these are habits that you've formed and connections in your mind that make it, then the brain is very lazy and then it wants to use as little energy as possible. So when you create a pathway in your mind that repeat so behavior over and over again, it goes, Oh, this is easy. And it's, you've got a real big highway. If you can imagine you've made a big deep groove and the in your, in your brain, we're not physically but I a deep highway, that this is where the traffic is going every day and the brain knows this pathway. Speaker 2: (13:13) It knows this behavior. And so it becomes a, the path of least resistance. So how that translates to habit forming is it in the first few weeks, you're going to find it royally, really tough cause you're going to be running all willpower and decisions and the goals that you've set and having this front of mind and that requires some willpower. But willpower will, will run out on, you can tell you will run out on you. But what doesn't run out on ya is the fact that you've created this new neural pathway, this, you've created this habit. And then it actually becomes easier for the brain to just to, you know, I did the social example. I have a morning routine. I get out of bed, I do some stretching exercises, I go and have a cold shower, horrible. And then I'd gotten him a better leader or a vegetable juice. Speaker 2: (14:02) And it's not life stuff. It's horrible. You know, it's what, it's what I should be having. And that's the way I start my day. And it's a good thing because I'm sitting my day out. But at the beginning it was like, Oh, this is awful. Now my body does it without even thinking. It just goes. Because that is the habit that I've created over many, many months. And so now it's actually quite normal for me to do it. And it's actually a, I can seal it when I, when I travel and I don't have my blender or whatever with me and I can't do my routine. It's like, Ooh, don't feel like right. Usually because I haven't had that routine to follow. So it gets easier as we do these things. And so just get through those first couple of weeks and then already really it will be easier. Speaker 2: (14:46) And when you get to 60 days, it'll be a piece of cake, you know? But so the Brian moved type their path of least resistance once you've set that up. So another little trick that I use Neil, and I've done it if you use this one, is if I'm don't feel like training for example, own like, you know, feeling what and I don't really want to and I'm unmotivated and I know that I've got a race coming up or I've got something that I want to achieve. A little trick that I use to get myself going is that I count backwards from five, four, three, two, one. And when, you know, every movie in the world has got that, you know, with, we're going to lift off in 10 seconds, 10, nine, eight, seven, six, even if you just do it from five to one, it creates this impulse of action because you've heard that so many times and you, you, you know, they don't. Speaker 2: (15:38) Zero, you're going to take off. So, and there's a whole book written on this about just counting down from five to zero. And by the time you get to zero, you'll just go and do without ruminating, without thinking and overthinking. Do I feel like training today? Do I not feel you need a bloody feel like I can tell you when you've had a hard day at work and you know things have gone wrong, you'd just rather go home and I put a bottle of wine. We all feel like that, but if you can go and put your gym clothes on or your running clothes on, I have a bargain with myself. I'm just going to get changed and then I'll say and once I put my clothes on, usually I'm like, cool, I feel more athletic already and I've actually done this thing and I'll, well I'm here now. Speaker 2: (16:22) I might as well just do a little warmup and see how I feel and then I start warming up and then all of a sudden my body starts to kick into gear. My body warms up, it gets ready for action and then we're off. We're off to the races, but I hate to overcome myself each and every bloody time actually people is, it's not just like, you know, Oh are you one of those motivated athletes who loves to give them the gym everyday? No, there are very many days when I do not feel like going for a run when I do not feel like going to the gym. But that's a little trick that I use to get my app Speaker 3: (16:56) The road. Exactly. We've been, you know, you said at the start at least it's having that fork in the road and setting yourself up, giving yourself signs valid. I like to put signs that direct me in to that, to the, the right fork in the road. So last night, it's good example. We've we've had a few nights this week. We've had friends around for barbecues and things like that. This morning is, I definitely getting up and going for a run. So I put my spiky ball. I used to roll my feet before a run. I'll stick that on the wood on the workbench before I went to bed last night, made sure I knew where shorts, t-shirt, have fines were for my, my phone's heart goes to my music when I'm running. All those things are out shoes by the front door. So when I got up this morning and walked into the kitchen, all those, they're the signs for me. Right? Not rolling your feet, trying to the, it was, there was no reason because the easy thing to do, if those things weren't there, then all of a sudden I'm off down Speaker 2: (17:50) The, the other path, and this is what I want everyone listening to understand is the people will look at often look at you and me and other people like this guy and they just get up and do it. It's easy. It's, it's not, it's not. But what we've got better at doing is, is really getting our minds and in the position to make the right decision. And that some of the time you need to, you need to do things like you've described things that I've described where you put your sign up, they put them up, you make it easy. And then you have your your accountability partners in place as well. The people that are going to ask you like in the day, how was your run? The minute I came down to the, to the gym this morning to jump on the podcast with you as I walked in, it was couple of memes I'd already told and couple of the team who had already told I was going running. Speaker 2: (18:34) First thing else was how did you run feel so much better explained to them how great the run was rather than saying, Oh yeah, so that and that, that's where you start to get the, the feeling success as well and that's the bit you is never no way that I want to walk in this morning and go that didn't do it. So when I saw the people I knew I was going to see, right, they were my accountability partners who are even realizing they were going to be my accountability partner. It says if they pay pressure that they are good prefers. Yeah. And we are all part of a, you know, they talk about the herd mentality and I like to call it like a Wolf pack. Really. You know, you're like, you, you're part of a pack and a when, when someone just exudes a little bit of pressure on you or makes you accountable, it's gonna make you go, you know, it's gonna make you go a whole lot more. Speaker 2: (19:21) Another example, my husband Heisley, he, he's had a hell of a week. The Farber gave some mess of big fires, you know, lots of overtime, three days, three nights. I haven't seen him in, in a week and tonight on his schedule was a 35 K run because he's preparing for the unity ultra, which we've got coming up in March, which is 84 Ks and you know, I all signed to him last night when if you have another really bad shift night then you know, you might want to shift that. And luckily last night wasn't too bad but he had everything prepared. You know, he had all his gear out, he had the foods that he needed, he hit the water all prepared. He had his literal lights all done. He had prepared his mind all day yesterday for the beta lets coming today. And he just came in the house before to get some headphones and then he ran back out again and carried on his way. Speaker 2: (20:09) And he's on a mission and he's happy because he's, he's actually doing the thing that he set out to do and he prepared himself for it, even though he's had a hell week. And I've said to him after this, you need a bloody good break and you need to sit and watch YouTube for a while, you know? And then it's okay. And it's understanding that as well that you need that downtime. But that's a classic example of somebody who's prepared themselves and his prepaid, the mind for the battle is to come and he's out there doing it right now. So, you know, and that makes me proud of him and in what he's doing. So home, like we have got the unity ultra coming up. I just wanted to mention that while we're talking about it. So I, I'm invested at for the unity ultra, which is a a 51 mile or 83 K's, I think it is down in Christchurch in March of 2020, if anyone is interested in doing this. Speaker 2: (21:01) This has been done is a to commemorate the victims of the Moscow techs. And Christchurch, one of the organizers lost his auntie in this horrific event and was moved to as a run out wanting to do something and Koran golfs. And he asked his friend who's a rice organizer and who does a lot of charity events to come and help organize this event. And they're actually over in Bali at the moment, running another event. But this one is going to take place on the 20th of March 20, pretty 20th to 22nd of March. And so it's one day of running, but it's a whole three day of beans around, you know, sinking in, in, in showing solidarity to the people that were affected by this horrific event and honoring the 51 people who died in, they'll see lives. And we're also going to be raising money for the red cross to help refugees who are being set up in New Zealand and needing some help and support around and the, you know, establishing themselves in New Zealand. Speaker 2: (22:03) So a great cause, a great reason to be doing it. So if anyone is wanting to find out more about that, you can go to the unity oprah.com. And, or reach out to us and we can tell you more. So that was just an a little bit of an aside. But going back to the goal setting into this year, like we're coming up to the end of the year, we've got the new year's resolutions coming in. 90% of people who sit new year's resolutions, I don't know what the actual statistic is, but it's pretty horrific. Do not follow through with it. So I don't be one of those statistics this year. Be one of the ones that's, it's some really good, well thought out goals. Start to understand your why behind these goals and then start to understand what it's going to take to get there, break it down into small bite sized pieces and then start developing the habits that will get you there and understand that you are going to fall off the bandwagon. I knew you're not going to be perfect, Speaker 3: (23:01) So if you need help then there's a whole process, quite detailed process we take off on through understanding their goals, their purpose, their why, what their purpose in life, what they're doing is, is as we've talked about many times before laces when you achieve your goals, there's a lot of other factors that come into it and that's what we can help you with. If you want to, we can take you through a goal setting session, a purpose session at the start of the year and then tie that back to what you're doing, the chances of you been successful in achieving it. If you've got support around you, if you've got coaching around you. We use, we use coaches ourselves. We use mental, mental ourselves for that reason because we know we're going to be a much higher chance of being successful and achieving our goals if we've got support around us. So we create that around us with own mentors and our own coaches and we can help you guys and go through it as well. So if you need help with it, reach out. Where's the best place to contact this list? Speaker 2: (23:54) I'm Lisa tammany.com [inaudible] website. And you can contact us via that. You can see all our programs. We have our epigenetics program, which is what Neil was talking about there. So we go through this process, but we go through this with the lens of looking at your particular set of genes. A very an incredible program that we've talked about a couple of times and we are actually going to get onto doing some sessions on the genetics program that we have in the next few weeks. We've been saying it for a couple of weeks and the idea would be to get onto it, but it's actually a really amazing program that will give you insights into your genes, what they're doing, how they're expressing and what recommendations and trying to understand who the heck you are. This is the biggest power in this is not just the food lists and having lists of foods that you're going to, that, that are going to be good for your body and in times of the day that you should be exercising and what types of exercise. But it's also about how your mind works in relation to your genes and how you were, how you were made. You know, it goes right back through embryology when you, and your mom's tummy, how you developed, what we, what energy went into the different systems. And I won't go into it now because it's very, very detailed and scientific and we need our you know, probably five or six podcasts to get through it all. But we have a huge result. So this and we're just, Speaker 3: (25:20) I'm really my skill set in and finding your purpose easier. Cause once you know who you are, how goal setting process and, and the purpose process becomes so much easier because you've got the tools to really, really, really help you choose the right fork in the road. Speaker 2: (25:35) Yeah. And understand how you operate. You personally, what is it that your dominant hormones are and how is your mind set up for action? You know, and we know you know, Neil and I worked together and we have both crusaders and this is one of the epigenetic types biotypes and we both very, you know, mission driven and very on a mission all the time and in huge goals and things. And we know that other people operate differently. And we can as coaches now talk to them in a different way, motivate them in a different way because they need to hear different things and what we need cause we taught the person, if that makes sense. So we will be going into all that. If you want to chicken out or really you can help onto our website, at least the lisatamati.com Hit the programs button and you'll see our three programs, our online run training program, our epigenetics program, and our mindset Academy, which is all about mental toughness and developing war emotional resilience and mental toughness. So check those all out. Have a great Christmas guys is upon us account believers and if you're listening to this afterwards yeah, I'm sure we would've had great Christmas. Any last words you want to add to before we wrap up the holiday period? Enjoy the Christmas. Have a great new year guys, and enjoy Tom and your family and loved ones. Yeah, sounds like a bloody good idea to me. So you guys, yeah, Speaker 1: (27:00) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

In this episode, Lisa Tamati and Exercise Professional, Health and epigenetics coach Neil Wagstaff discuss the latest trends in the fitness industry, the latest shocking stats and how we can reverse them and about the power of power posing, stress management techniques and disease prevention rather than cure.   Shocking Health states & the latest insights from the Fitness Industry Timestamp:   2:52 The latest (and shocking) insights from the fitness industry In new Zealand 7:55 being a role model & brain health 9:20 Stress, stress manifestation, and stress management 13:10 the power of posture - Power poses 16:00 Anger vs Love & Gratitude 22:40 Preparing for healthy holidays 30:15 Working with us, And epigenetics   We would like to thank our sponsors:   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff   If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:00) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) Hi everybody. This is how many here at the limits and this week I have my favorite person, Neil Wagstaff on the podcast who's been on here so many times. I can't count any walls cause he's my offsider at by running hot coaching our company. So welcome to the show Neil. Thanks Lis nice work as always hoping to find a person. That's cool. Besides my husband of course now Neil has just been up at the fitness awards, which, and New Zealand a fitness industry awards and it is also a three day conference alongside this and he has just come back with a Monaco award. So I want to congratulate my mate own winning the Monaco reward. Now this is for excellence and leadership and work ethic and there's something that has peers have nominated him for because he is a really major player in the fitness industry and fully deserves this award. So congratulations mate. Well done. Thank you. Right, thank you. He'd grown a little bit now. Now well done, Mate, the Monaco award at the FedEx, that's a really top notch thing to meet, to receive in the fitness industry. So we're really, really proud and I'm not surprised to be honest. I mean, you just absolutely mentioned this, you know so congratulations on that. Speaker 3: (01:37) The cool thing about the neighborhood as well, Lisa's and it's very touching to get it very, very cool, but it mentions the people around you. So it's really a great reminder to me that I can't be what they are. We can't do what we do without the people around us. So having, having good people around us makes a massive, massive difference. So, you know, for me it's not just about what I'm doing, it's about what we're doing and, and really thankful to the people that that we've got around us and I've got around me. So it's very, very cool. Speaker 2: (02:07) Yeah. And that just really shows how humble you truly are because a lot of it is down to you, but use your team is important. Last week I had on the show, dr Rob bell and he has a book called no one does it alone and that will no one gets there alone. And it's definitely true for this case as well. And we're always a team effort usually for everything. Even the races that I used to do, I used to think, crikey, here's me getting the middle. But without my proof I wouldn't be standing there, which could be meetings for the crew as well. Speaker 3: (02:40) It's about team. And it's anyone who says that they're on their own is often raise an eyebrow cause cause they've always, Speaker 2: (02:46) Yeah, PayPal of part. We're not so self-made. Right. So what we're going to, again, my aim on this podcast guys, we wanted to talk stuff that new sorn for the FedEx awards and Oh, conference, sorry. Because this is like a cutting edge of the latest and the fitness industry and he learned a whole lot of great things and we always like to stay up on the latest in science and the latest developments. So Neil, take us through what you learned on this incredible. A few days up more often. Speaker 3: (03:23) So the, we had a great real good keynote at the start of the weekend, which was where everyone comes together and goes to that. And the the, the chief executive, the heads up excised New Zealand. He gave me some guidelines which nearly had me falling off my chair on you. We were, we weren't where we needed to be from activity point and newsfeed. And it's when I heard the stats and the and looks at the numbers, it was quite shocking and often the, I found myself in a little bubble with the people I worked with. Cause we're all very active where we're at the gym we're at with our business, we're surrounded by people right to, for across New Zealand the world health organization guidelines. We are the 13th worst in the world for an activity 13th world worst in the world for our kids. 90% of our children don't meet the daily guidelines of 60 minutes of activities a day. Speaker 3: (04:13) That's 90% of our children meeting the the activity guidelines of 60 minutes a day, which isn't a huge amount of time of physical activity. Our adults are just about 50% of meeting the guidelines of 30 minutes a day. That's, that's half our population who aren't meeting the activity guidelines and 30 minutes a day, which again isn't a huge amount of huge amount of time as well. And for obesity we're sitting at number three, number three in the home and the whole world. So well that what that after I fell off my chair, pick myself up and brush myself down, it really sort of hit home to me in a message I wanted to send from from this podcast today and for our listeners is, is share what you are doing. I know a lot of our listeners will be out to if they will be moving, but you will be an inspiration to those around you. Speaker 3: (05:01) You are in a position to teach and educate those around you. You are in a position and more importantly to teach and educate our children please, especially over the upcoming holding holiday period. Take the time to, to be that role model. Take the time to, to, to get active with the family, get out with the family that worry if you ended up in the next few weeks. If you're not hitting your runs. Exactly. Don't panic. But do make the time to get out with your family and get walking on the beach. Get walking on in the, in the local parks, walking on the local trails and get the family moving and just let everyone around, you know, handful and that is and let everyone around. You know what, what is going on in our, our community and our country because we need to get moving. We need to move or regularly we need to really address our health or a obesity epidemic and we need to do something about this quickly so that we're in a position to, to reverse that because there's a lot of choice, right? So it's out there, there's a lot of options, but they are clearly not hitting them up. They are not meeting the market school. So pretty that role model for that person. Speaker 2: (06:03) This is going to have massive consequences for our health system, diabetes and all the obesity diseases, any of escalators. There's always things that a knock on effect if that chosen one and not, you know, we used to, we used to have such active childhoods. I mean I had a wonderful childhood running around all day, every day. And that's not the case now. And those kids aren't learning those habits and those routines and it's going to be a disaster for the health. You know, the medical system and New Zealand and I mean this is not just New Zealand, this is happening obviously across the board. We all know Speaker 3: (06:40) Worldwide. It's a worldwide problem. There are, there are stats, but every, every country is facing similar things. And I mean, just look at how much on you and your family is spending on screens over the holiday period. Look at how much time you do in general. If you're trying to get something done at the and, and your family are on screens where you're trying to get something done, it's plans and so on. Take some time out where you are actually moving. It doesn't need to be high intensity, but get yourself and the family out, move in and just ask yourself, look at those stats. Are you one of the 50% that is meeting the guidelines or are you one of the 50% that is missing them? So if, if that's the case and with your children, you know, you want to, we want to really reduce that 90% so that children each day and really so much gets my blood pressure up. But this does because that there's responsibility from our schools as well as the responsibility from our schools to take this on board as well. And look at how much movement the the children are doing each day as well. Speaker 2: (07:37) Yeah. And as you've got three little kids who are extremely act the one, know how much you put into their activity and to keeping them on point. And you know, I come around to your place and you've got the kids ability with that doing their own thing. I mean, I was always surprised to come, come around and it's three and four year olds doing like little bell swings and stuff and sign little, okay. And what did he do? Like a 12K last year and he got beaten by us big sister this year I'm like, I'm running what, 15 Kai up the mountain or something,uin signing for little kids. Uit doesn't have to be that level guys, but,uyou know, you are a role model for your children and I will [inaudible] Speaker 3: (08:20) What you do and watch what you do and be there. And then the other thing I just wanted to add in this world, and you, you know better than anyone leads the importance of brain health. So the connection with activity and brain health is, is phenomenal. So this isn't just about movement. This is about development of, of of the brain as well. And from an education point of view and a learning point of view and an experience point of view. And as we're, you know, we're using more and more Lisa from RF genetics point of view, the rec geneticists program, the importance of mind with that and the connection of how we will develop our mind and use on mind is, is key. So this is a huge, a huge topic and something we're both very passionate about. But there's simple message out there is please, please, please think about what movement you're doing each day. Cause it's, it's not just about activity, it's not just about why it is about, it's about learning resilience, it's about the development of of the brain and mind. And it's about, you know, Atlanta children's become Speaker 2: (09:16) Good, good, healthy peoples who grew up as well. Absolutely. And that sort of goes into our next topic, which was around the stress and emotional the effects of stress on the body. Because this is another thing that it ties in very much. You hit another good, great point. Speech up there. Speaker 3: (09:33) One of 'em, one of, one of my mentors who's, he's taught me a lot over the past few, few, few years, Angela Lee and she, she was delivering a session called issues in the tissues. So your tissue, basically the message is coming out of it. Your tissue as in your your muscles. Yeah, all my, all the connected tissue. Of course, your body will carry a lot of your emotion. So it's the structure of our body. You can have injuries and niggles that are caused not by necessarily by postural problems that are not caused by a lack of flexibility but actually caused by emotion. It's a simple comparison. There's a lot of lists. There's, I'm sure when we experience, when they get tired or stressed, they're anxious, they feel tension around their neck and shoulders. But that can manifest itself all over the body. So a couple of good examples and we've done some release work with some of our clients, one on one and some of the members here at the gym as well. Speaker 3: (10:26) I've had people who've actually released them, really some some of their body that burst things tears because that, that part of their body has been carrying, carrying the emotion. So something to be very aware of as well. If your body is tight, if it's restricted, it's feeling uncomfortable. And for those of you that are runners that are listening, it might might be the distraction just doesn't work. And you've got to address the emotion with the, with the good movement and the stretching and relaxation work. So release the, release the emotion. All of a sudden you'd be moving, moving a whole lot better in response to stress in our body. And this was a great point I took away. We've talked a lot, Lisa, about the flight or fight response. Okay. What angel did very well and just reminded me of as well, there's also a freeze, a freeze response. Speaker 3: (11:10) Now the freeze response is what a lot of us are doing in this day and age. We're no longer fighting, staying and addressing an issue and therefore we're getting, we're allowed, we're able to release all those stress womans. We're not flighting and running away and releasing all the stress hormones that we've built up in our body. We're actually freezing and submitting to it. Yeah. We're freezing in place, submitting to the stress, the stress response we've been given. And if that can't be released by fighting or fighting or the sudden that's just loaded into our, into our body and into our tissue, which then results in, in a pretty pretty tight body. Speaker 2: (11:47) Does that mean that when the boss yells at you at work next time you should fight back, keep yourself healthy or should you run away? Speaker 3: (11:59) Is it needs to be released so it has arrows released that a, again, to lay one on your boss probably isn't the best of it. Speaker 2: (12:05) Well, I don't go and punch a box. We're not saying that, but leave it out somehow. Yeah, Speaker 3: (12:09) Let us somehow, and if that comes out in a constructive discussion with your boss, then then great. Or if it comes out with a discussion with your partner at the end of the day or a loved one, then the imperfect, if it comes out through some exercise activity, then great. The key message here is it needs to be coming out because if it's not, and this can be, you know, we've, I've looked at a lot of the research on it and then there's the stuff that some people will be carrying from childhood and teenage years that is now causing and continuously built up kind of structural. Our body is a great representation of the emotional stress we've been through over the prayers previous years and managing that and releasing it is is key. She led in very nicely from there just talking about the importance as well of this in mind and have a control on motions throughout that they and how we feel about ourselves is the importance of power posts this which I know you understand really well and you use a lot of them. Speaker 2: (13:02) Yeah, definitely. The Bay sadness Speaker 3: (13:04) And I and a hundred position is you can leave this feeling by the end of the day, pretty, pretty uncomfortable depression all about ourselves. So changing that body position can have a massive physiological and hormonal benefit as well, which, which really changes how we feel. So what did you talk through some of the things you'd do? Speaker 2: (13:21) Yeah, I'll just give me a bit of an example of what the hell we're talking about with power posing. So just one example that I use on a regular basis. You know, do a lot of speaking on, on stages and sometimes big scary stages. And you know, when I start to feel the nerves and you know, I've been doing it for 13 years and I still feel nerves every time. I go somewhere quiet, even if it's in the, in the toilets or somewhere. And I do some power posing, which might sound a bit weird. I go around, you know, beating my chest and I, you know, Rocky top of the Philadelphia stairs there and saying, and standing in a really strong position in being what they call power posing releases to saw thrown into my body and makes me feel more courageous and stronger. Speaker 2: (14:06) It's an actual physical thing. And I've talked about this before, like from sample, what the all blacks do, you know, to do the hacker before they go into the game. And that was done traditionally because they pumped up the, the, the main going into battle back in the day. And the Maori you know, back in the war days without tribal people, they would do the happiness to psych themselves up. And that's psyching themselves up as really releasing the hormones so you don't have to second to that level. But by doing a little bit of power pose in straightening up and even like putting a smile on your face when you don't feel like it, it actually causes a change in the difference in your hormone hormones that are being released into the body. And that will change how you feel. You know, that's a little bit of a fake it till you make it, you know, you put a smile on your face in, in, and after a couple of minutes you start to feel action. Speaker 2: (14:58) You'd better you stay in that Strider and you feel stronger. You hunched over all day. I was used to that at the chiropractor with my mom, which one? I'm getting his spine straightened out and I said, you know, I'm really struggling to get her to stand up straight. And you know, probably he'd bet cause with the Brian [inaudible] because when you have a, an injury of a snatcher, your body's response is to go into that fetal position is to hunker down and taped your, your heart and chest, your areas that are, that are vulnerable. So the Xena becomes a chronic situation, which you said you hunched over like this. So now I have to try and remind him of either to hold herself up nice and straight. And that's another example of the body's actually doing it to protect yourself and then instance, but it's no, no longer work with thing in the chronic state. So you will, posture has a massive influence on how you feel and how you act and the hormones that are running around in your body. So try it out. Speaker 3: (15:56) Very, very tricky. You've got to them about the good examples. If you think about anger, if you feel angry, then it's going to increase your heart rates and increase your breathing rate, your blood pressure, it will have your brain doughnut at great speed. You can have higher adrenaline and cortisol levels. Loving comparison. You're gonna release your your good hormones, your oxytocin, your dope mean blood pressure will come down and breathing rate will come down, heart rate will come down. And generally you're gonna, you're gonna feel good, less anxiety, less depression. So practicing love is, this is a very simple way to start feeling, feeling, feeling better about yourself. Speaker 3: (16:33) And we are having this discussion earlier on can actually make you and will actually make you put on weight. It will make you, it can make you can make you fatter and where might you fall? Whereas practicing love, you can, you can lose, you can lose weight. And if you think of examples in your life and sometimes the, the time with those of you listening where you fell in love, you would have probably felt, if you think back, it was one of your, one of your healthiest times, you felt great about yourself. You'd have been going for that period with your partner where you're, yeah, you're having fun, you're going to exploring the world together and it's good times. That's important to work on that in life. And it's important to work on that. So important in your relationship, not just for the stability, your relationship with this stability, your help as well. From a physiological point of view, there's cool responses and things going on in your body. You're getting released, serve, as I said, the oxytocin dopamine, which just makes you feel a whole lot better than excessive adrenaline and cortisol that you get with that you get with anger. Speaker 2: (17:26) [Inaudible] This, I'm actually Dr. Bruce Lipton, who I've talked about inversely on this podcast. He has a book called honeymoon effect, which is all about that. They in love sealing and had, had a sustain it and love feeling an all the both sides of that. And I had wait, wait, before the last block, the poor Lawson on the show the scientists or who's an expert in it and he was wearing a constant glucose monitor to see what his sugar levels were doing throughout the day. And he had a bad email comes through from his accountant. You know, how your anxiety level goes up when you get an email from your accountant. And it caused an angry response in him because this something in NEMA and he watched on his glucose monitor, his his blood sugar levels go through the roof even though he'd been fasting for 18 hours at this time as he did intermittent fasting. Speaker 2: (18:21) So in other words, his blood sugar went up without any food going into his mouth, just from the reaction from his anger. Okay. So that's how powerful this is. So when people say to you, stress is a killer, we see it very gladly and very like, Oh, you all got stressed and stuff. It is eye color. And it will cause you to put on weight and it will cause you to be more unhealthy and have problems. So if your blood sugar levels are going up and you've got problems with diabetes or prediabetes or have some insulin resistance going on, then is going to damage your body. Another reason to go for a run very quickly and get out and, and releasing that. But it's, it's that powerful. You have an angry response to someone in the traffic. You are not hurting the dude that you're giving the finger. Speaker 2: (19:12) So you're hurting yourself by having this emotional reaction. And when you understand that, you start to think about getting angry all the time because then you start to realize, wait, actually I'm not, I'm not doing any damage to anyone else. I'm doing damage to my own cells token when we have gratitude in their heart. And we, there's a great book by the HeartMates Institute which is all about developing this, this, this muscle of gratitude and in, in tuning in with the heart. And when you do this, it all sounds very airy theory, but it's absolutely based in science. When you have a feeling of gratitude, when you, if you're having a really bad vibe of what I do as I imagine I'm stroking my cat who I love Dealy and when I cuddle my cat it calms me down. So we know I'm having a response. I'll often think about my cat as stupid as that sounds, but that calms me down a little bit. Okay. Or it might be cuddling your baby or whatever it is for you or giving mom a hug or all these things that would actually help you feel more gratitude than you would like. Thankful for that personal, thankful for that, that little weight or whatever you have. And that changes your, your, your psychology and your actual biology immediately Speaker 3: (20:31) As well. The grass tutors practicing that on a daily basis. And there's some other good things I've just been writing down journaling or just talking with your family about three things that have happened that day that are good. It really does change your physiology and your body connection is key as well, so connecting with people you want to spend time with. That can be husband, wife, family, friends, have a look. Often there's people, especially at the stage of life, a lot of our listeners will be in having that connection with people that they want to because of other commitments with life, family, work. Take the time, especially in the holiday period, coming up to connect those people again and just see how different it makes you feel. That is the really is it's not just the, again as you say, an airy fairy thing is a very cool physiological response going on. Speaker 3: (21:17) Hormonal responses. You do that and bring as much fun and laughter and as you can often makes you feel real. I feel a whole lot better. Having fun in life is when it's there your, and again you look back into memory some times you remember you, you remember because of the amount of fun and laughter in those in those times, but you want more health, you want more control of the physiology, then bring these, bring these things in. Interesting as well Lisa. We've got about 80% advantage it sorts and in quite a lot data about this. 80% of our serotonin is is found and developed technical gap. So again, some another looking at as another one of our happy hormones. It's looking after your gut health is key. So the connection between gut health and one of our other, our other good buddies, Ben Moore and talked a lot about this as well is a connection between depression, anxiety and gut health. Speaker 3: (22:05) And general mood is, is huge and this is the reason if you've got issues with your gut, leaky gut or the food you're putting into your body is not as good as it could be. Then we're looking for stuff to make us feel better the whole time we're fueling ourselves with staff. There's going to flare up our gut and cause inflammation. Easy winds. And especially something to be conscious of coming into the holiday period is what we're putting in because it's a time we should be happy, should be fun, should be hanging out with your friends and families haven't lost. So put some quality stuff into you and you got, rather than stuff that's going to flare up, because that's going to affect the serotonin production, which then means from a happiness point of view that starts, that starts, starts dropping, dropping down. Speaker 2: (22:42) Yup. And I'll say on that point, you know, being that we're coming into the solace season and we're coming into Thompson, we're going to be having lots of fag family get togethers hopefully and, and lots of good food and alcohol and, and all that sort of stuff. And it's a hard time to be disciplined. And you know, a little bit of leeway and a bit of fun is it's cold. But if we go in a little more competed mean to Lee for those situations. If we think about, you know, on Christmas day and all the food that's going to be available, and what am I going to do on that day? So that you're not like hijacked by a surprise at all. Oh my God, they have Loma that I've been dreaming about for ages is sitting on the table. And it's not to say you can't have any, you know, like it's never a, you know, we all have treats now and again as well. Speaker 2: (23:32) The thing is to be prepared mean to me because when you make yourself aware of what's going to come, then you can arm yourself for bagel. It's like preparing for a race. And I talk about visualization a lot appearing for that battle coming. And this is in a way a willpower battle. And if you're prepared for it to more likely to have maybe a little bit of traits but not too much traits so that you feel sick afterwards, you know, and we all have that, you know Christmas afternoon, like, Oh, what did I eat that for? Remorse, you know? So if you go into it, being aware of it and then practicing this, you'll be easier. W our brains are just like muscles. When you start a new habit, when you start a new behavior, it's very, very hard at the beginning because you creating a new neural pathway. Speaker 2: (24:24) But once you've done it fits B 60 times, it's just old hat in the brain is very much about conserving energy. And so it does want it the path of least resistance. And that means it does what it's used to doing. So you'll find after getting up every morning and having a routine, like a a morning routine and the right foods and you do it day in and day out and the first few weeks it's terribly hard. There's a whole lot of willpower involved that is dice like white becomes more retained and then it becomes easier and easier and easier to say no to the bad stuff because your brain is actually used to it. And it just follows that same path. It doesn't think a lot of time. It just does. And this is the danger things when you program in your body negative things or you program and all sorts of things it will ever work. Speaker 2: (25:14) And one other point on that the emotions that you attach to things, it's also a very important point. So I like, for example, if I, if I go for a run and my whole thought process in the half an hour before the random as I'm going out the door is I hate running. I don't want around, but I have to run. I have to go because it's all my program and I've got to do it. This is, Oh, I'm so lucky that I can run and I can't wait to get out the door and have some time to myself and to be able to breathe in the fresh year and sick the whole lives. People who can't do this and how lucky I am. Do you see the difference in that mentality? And that's in has a massive influence on how you will perceive your future training sessions. Speaker 2: (25:58) When you program negativity with your exercise or with your food, it becomes an automated response. So the next time you go for a run, before you've even sought about whether you want to or not, your Brian's going, ah, hat's the run. I don't want to do this. That's already got that preprogrammed emotion with that activity. So it's really, really important to program, even if you're faking it. Once again, I love running. I'm feeling positive about running. This is a privilege for me to do. And when you go out with that attitude, it will program your brain in that way. Then an associates exercise with fun in Asia and not exercise with, I have to, and I hate this and that will in the same goes with your food and say if you put food into your mouth, it's not optimal, but you are actually believing this is really good for my body. It will be better for your body than if you actually put good food in your mouth. But go, I'm hating this. This is awful because you were associating and neither before the hormones and everything else is still affected by it. So in other words, your mental game is as important as the food you're putting in is as important as the exercise you're actually throwing. Speaker 3: (27:15) Just the stuff on the mind and Brian leads is just easy wins as well as hydration. We talk about this loads and I continue to talk about it because it's just such an easy win. I still see so many people that, that aren't looking after their hydration. They're looking for something else to fix. But your brain needs water, your brain needs water. It needs hydration. Well thinking, well I'm feeling positive and being able to just really reinforce everything you've just talked about there. Then keep on top of your hydration, especially over the next, the next few weeks in the holiday period, think about your water. Think about what's going in. I dry the brain. The brain will feel a whole lot better. Therefore your mood will be a whole lot better simply because you're getting some good quality hydration to the brain tissue, Speaker 2: (27:56) Especially when these times where you know, alcohol is going to be a part of a lot of parties with people and it's also so hot and we're changing the seasons. We're going to need more water and keeping on the older people in your family because older people tend not to have the same system. Fix, hit make so they don't feel the need for the water because the Seuss doesn't work as well, but they actually need it. And then they go on Austin, have a cup of tea and think that they're hydrating. Whereas tea, coffee, alcohol are all do relaxation, take water away from your body. And I, my dad is a real bad one for this. How had a cup of tea, you know, I don't need to have some more water. Oh, I had a bit of a drink out of the hose models gardening all day. Speaker 2: (28:37) And it's like old dead. You know, you've been out 15 hours in the bloody sun cause he still doesn't see you're dividing and he hasn't had anything to drink. You know, and then he's wondering why his brain's not working. That's why, you know, it's not the nature. It's Stripe not having enough water. And in fact, a lot of the people that are admitted to hospital woods, dementia, older people actually come right when they put on a drug. So strike up demodulation. So if you're older, loved ones are not drinking what they should enough water just give them a chain to Rwanda. Coffees and teas. Very true Speaker 3: (29:15) Enough police. I'm up at the conference too to share what we do. So we were lucky enough to have the three talks while I was up there. It's the other coaches and trainers around the country. One I'm running skills and drills one a, a business one about how we've structured and set up our online training. And I'm also one on the runners warm up the importance of that and some good things that we use in our warmups both online and, and in our one on one and our big seminars we do as well. So it's really cool to be able to share that. And it was really, again, very humbling and very cool to see how much the 10 days participants were taken away from it. So it's just to remind everyone as well that we're, and it reminded me as well that some of the stuff we're doing is, is quite different. Is, is from our perspective and our client's perspective is a cutting edge and it's, it's, it's getting good results. So if you're interested in finding out more about it where, so people, people go to the website and get to least times you.com and find out some more about it and has the best ways to connect with dealers. Speaker 2: (30:18) Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. I'm all over Instagram and Facebook at lisatamati on both of those. And he, he don't over to our website, at lisatamati.com Under the programs button you'll find epigenetics programs. We have running coaching our online run training system which we have over 700 employees. I think now we're wide on this program. It's a holistic program. It's based around health as well as just running and we're not high mileage coaches has been said quite a few times on this podcast. We do everything about Tom efficiency and avoiding burnout and injury, which is really, really important, especially is a lot of our people are busy executives and got kids and go crazy Koreans. And as you know, the stress levels can be quite high. So when you are trying to run long but also not blow yourself the pieces and having the right combination of the right structure is really, really important. Speaker 2: (31:12) So we're also also health coaches and epigenetics programs. So if the epigenetics testing is one of our major programs and in the coming weeks for going through the, doing some stations on AP genetics this is the most exciting thing since sliced bread. It really is, it's, it's the next level and science. This is a first time in history that we have had access to this information about our own genes and our own body. It's the combination of fisting different sciences who all put in new evidence. There's one on toll, hundreds of scientists around the world of the past 20 years have all worked on this. This is really Nick's label paper with you as ceiling. Like one of those people as I train, I eat right, I do everything right and I'm not getting the results. I can guarantee you it's because the stuff that you are doing is not white for your genes in this program will tell you exactly what to eat, when to eat it, how to eat it, what combinations. Speaker 2: (32:10) It'll tell you all about more dominant hormones and youth basically just want to have on your health and tell you so much about your personality. It's not just about food and fitness, it's all about the mind, how your mind works, how your personality works, how you developed in the womb. This stuff is next level. So we're super excited to be using this really cutting-edge toll. If you want to find out about that, if he's sick of not kidding results because the one size fits all fitness and is just not giving it to. Yeah. And we've been honestly frustrated with us for years. We've trained two people in sacrad saying giving the exact same thought and like completely different results. We know that every trainer in the world will tell you that, that and that experience, that client that doesn't get the results because of their genes because they're not doing the right thing. Speaker 2: (33:01) So if you want to reach out to us, talk to us about that. That's our epigenetics programs. And then the third program we have is all about mindset and meeting partners. Which we call mindset. Who is our online equal spirit. If you want to take your mind to the next level, Bulletproof yourself was mean too late, then that's the program for you then otherwise you can reach out to me and Neil anytime just by the website. Any last words today, Neil, before we wrap this one up, go and do something that really releases you. Get almost the day, can get someone to cuddle a kiss. I laugh and laugh loud and just consider what you're putting into your body. Yeah, sounds good. So it's wrapping up for this week and we'll see you again next week. Thanks guys. Speaker 1: (33:53) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

Dr Rob Bell from Indianapolis in this USA is a renown Mental Toughness Coach, Speaker and the Author of 6 and soon to be 7 Books on the subject. In this interview he shares his top insights from working with elite level athletes across a number of sports and corporate athletes as well. He discusses his approach, his philosophies around developing mental strength to optimize performance and upgrade your life and the tools and perspectives he uses with his athletes. Dr Bell says: Mental Toughness means performing your best when it matters the most AND dealing with the adversity and setbacks that we will face. If performance is important in your life, then both of these are inevitable, so it isn't a matter of "if", but "when" mental toughness is needed. The odd thing is that many people don't actually need to be mentally tough in today's society. These people are comfortable on the sidelines. I'm not sure about you, but we just survive in mediocrity, not thrive. Our goal is to be the BEST at getting BETTER." You can learn more about Dr Bell and his work, his books and courses at www.drrobbell.com. His books include No One Gets There Alone Don't Should On Your Kids No Fear Mental Toughness Training For Golf 50 Ways to Win Hinge   Mental Toughness - The Key To Success with Dr Rob Bell Timestamp:   4:20 About Rob 5:32 About the hinge  7:50 hinge moments 11:05 lisa's hinge moment 14:34 Rob's coaching stories 17:45 a new level, a new devil - being excited vs being fearful 24:02 focusing on success vs focusing on segnifficance 28:32 Mental Toughness Hacks 33:28 reprograming our subconscious & choosing our tribe 37:52 Scarcity vs Abundance mindset   We would like to thank our sponsors:   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff   If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:00) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:11) How everyone listed. Somebody here at pushing the limits today. I have a real treat for you, but before we get underway, I'd just like to encourage you to hop on over to our website and to check out all our flagship programs. We have an online run training Academy running hot. It's called a holistic run training. Whether you are doing your first half marathon marathon or doing ultra marathons or even if you're just taking your first steps, check out our system, what we do and how we can help you achieve your goals. We also have an Eaton genetics testing program. This is absolutely my blind stuff. I've just been away actually on the weekend doing some more training. On this. And this is a personalized health approach. This is taking the last 20 years of hundreds of science work from festing different science disciplines. Bring this all together into one online tool that will enable you to get insights into you and your genes. Speaker 2: (01:12) Like [inaudible] before. You'll be able to understand exactly what foods to eat and what time of the day you should be eating, what types of exercise to you, but you're learning so much more than just food and exercise. It's all about how your brain works, what hormones are dominant in your body and what a fixed means will have and what time of the day these are these are happening. You'll get information about what types of work you'll be put at, what times of the day you should be doing different types of activities. Just insights that will absolutely change your life, blow your mind. I'm really, really excited about this genetics program because it's no longer a one size fits all approach, which it has been throughout history up until this point of time. Now we can look at who you are, how your genes are expressing and give new personalized recommendation. Speaker 2: (02:08) So that's our second bag ship program. And the third one we have is mindset here, which is all about developing mental toughness, a strong mindset so that you can achieve the things in life that you want to without all the problems getting in the way and stopping new wrench in your potential. So check those all out at Lisatamati.com. Now, today I have Dr Rob bell on the show and he is from Indianapolis in United States and dr Rob is an author, a coach, and a speaker. He's trained hundreds of executives and athletes of all levels and across all sports. He's the author of six books and soon to bring out his seventh and you're going to get so much value out of today's show. So without further ado, I'd like you to introduce you to Dr. Bell and one last thing before I go. Please, please, please give the show a rating and review if you enjoy the content that really helps the show get exposure and really helps our ratings on iTunes, et cetera. So I really, really appreciate you doing that right over to Dr. Bell, everybody, Lisa Tamati here at pushing your limits. Fantastic to have you with me again on the show. We've got a very exciting geese. We've got to the Rob bell all way from Indianapolis in the United States with me today. So welcome to the show that grew up. Speaker 3: (03:33) Awesome. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks Lisa for having me. Speaker 2: (03:37) So Rob and I have connected by LinkedIn as you do these days. And I have delved into Rob's work and what he's done and he's a meeting toughest coach and an author and a speaker. Someone who speaks my language obviously. And I just loved what he was doing in his work, so I wanted to share that with you guys and my audience and to maybe get some insights from Rob about about me to toughness and he works with a whole lot of different types of athletes and corporate to golf to, to NFL, I think, or you'll be able to share. So, dr. Rob, welcome to the show. And thanks for being here. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Speaker 3: (04:22) I mean, well, thanks so much for introduction. And I mean, again, we connect over LinkedIn and I was like, wow, like this, this lady's amazing. Like, look at all the races she's done. So anybody doing like those ultra marathons, like Badwater like yourself and you know, the salve there in the Sahara. I mean, I'm all about, I mean, not just I'm in my, my whole life is just dedicated I think just to helping people get to where they want to go. So it's just being the coach and, and you know, as well as I do, I mean, the, the greatest satisfaction I think we get as a coach is just being that small part. And that piece of, you know, I think what we're always trying to get is just that one moment that, that one point in our lives, and I call him these hinge moments where we don't know what it looks like, but if we can make that small difference in that person's life. So helping them connect with who they are, with who they're going to become. And I always preach and I know you, you're on the same vein, but you know, no matter how bad things aren't, our life only takes more. It takes that one moment, that one person, that one event to make all the difference. And that's why I just love no one. I do. So I mean I've been blessed enough to just always kind of follow that passion and just leave me here, the podcast today. So I'm excited. Speaker 2: (05:34) Absolutely. And you actually have, why you have seven bowls, six books in the seventh one on the way. Is that right? Your books is called the hinge. I know. And so this is all about hinge moments in sport does it, right? So what do you do? Speaker 3: (05:51) Well, so I say like every door has a hint. So if you hear about doors opening and closing in life, that's of the hinge you hear of a rusty door. It's not the door that's rusty at all. It's the Hinsey gets rusty. And so always say is every, you know, a, a door without a hinge hinges a wall. It just doesn't work. And so what the Hanjin is, the answer is going to be that one person that's gonna be that one moment or one event. Sometimes that one decision that makes all the difference in our lives. We just don't know when that's coming. We can't connect the dots in our life looking forward, but can only connect the dots looking backwards and seeing the impact of that one person or that one moment made in our life. And when it comes to, you know, mental toughness, like I said, it only takes one. Speaker 3: (06:34) Now we might not know the hinge connects sometimes two weeks, months, years later. The impact of one person saying you can't do it, you're not going to be good enough. Or one decision or that one person that we, that we met that connected us to somebody else. And since we can't know when that moment's coming, that's the importance of being present and not taking any day off and making sure that every moment that we do and every person that we meet matters. Because it does. Because we don't know when that moment's going to happen. And that's, that's the real point about the hitch. Speaker 2: (07:10) That's a real insight. Yeah. I hadn't even thought about this. This just opened up my mind to a new way of thinking. I hadn't thought about that at all as being, I was sort of thinking hinge moments, those, you know, crucial moments. And, and in the sporting event where, you know, either we left or it went right and you succeed, but you're saying the opportunities are going to come towards us, these opportunities, but we don't know or see them necessarily as really important pivotal points. And if we're not paying attention and if we're not out there actively looking for these hinge moments then we're gonna miss them and miss opportunities in our lives basically. Is that right? Speaker 3: (07:50) Yeah, absolutely. And I mean a lot of, a lot of these come when we're, when we're not even ready for them, you know, and one of the half iron mans I did, I mean one of the hinge moments was somebody to stop the change my tire for me. And I have no idea even what I was doing in the race, how to change a tire. And that changed my entire life. Just that one moment. And we're going to have several hinge moments throughout our lives. But I think that's the real importance. And, and that's the part that I really think is, is so crucial is no matter how bad our situation is, right. No matter how bleak and outcome looks, no matter what, it only takes one. That's what we're getting. Speaker 2: (08:29) Yeah. Actually I, I re listen to that little video on your website about the doctor. Rob was in a, in a halftime, it was one of your early first ones. I believe Tony wasn't signed up with no training at all. And then suddenly your talk gives up and then you standing on the side of the right guy. What do I don't disappoint? People that are riding past you as they doing it. Rice. Yep. Named some nice person. Decided to sacrifice basically their position in the rice to help you out, help you change a tire and get you back on the road. And prior to that, what was your way of thinking before and what was it afterwards? Speaker 3: (09:13) Well, I mean I think like people don't think people don't do things to us. They do things for themselves and it's kind of the two by four principle and no matter what, no matter what the kind of situation is, I mean it was, it wasn't like I was a bad person, but when it comes to racing, you do that suit best that you can. I asked myself in the question when this guy stopped and I would tell people about this, what I have stopped and the answer to that point, Lisa was no, I wouldn't have stopped. I wouldn't even have thought about it. But once he stopped, then I started exploring then other professional examples of why would other people stop their own race and what was it about these individuals that they got that I didn't get. And so now every race that I go into isn't focused really on how I do every race is who am I going to be able to help. Speaker 3: (10:03) And then it's one of the things I just kind of pray about, put me in a situation Mark and help somebody. And so then the whole viewpoint changes. And the reason why is cause you know, we can't help out others in life without also helping out ourselves. And that's the part that we never get. I mean, if anybody has volunteered before, it's a perfect example. We volunteered. No one leaves volunteers situations helping out kids at a hospital saying, boy, those kids are so lucky that I was here to help them. We say the opposite, right? We say, boy, those kids helped me more than I ever helped them. Yeah. Why is that? Would they give us where they gave us perspective, right? They gave us an appreciation and gratitude for our own problems. I'd gladly take that stuff and we cannot help out others. But that also helping out ourselves. That's the point about getting outside of our own head. If we can just focus on other people, that's how we get outside of our own head and that's how we help ourselves at the same time. So it's, and I think it was like Gandhi or author Ash that said it, you know, one of the most selfish things you can do is to help somebody else. Speaker 2: (11:05) Wow. That's real. It's really insightful. And I tell you what, you're getting into Oak marathons now of light and you've got a hundred model. You, you said you were hoping to play next year, a hundred mile are coming up this year. Yep. What I've, one of the things I love about ultramarathons, and this is how it's changing slowly, but it's very much not about the winners. It's, it's, it's different to say iron man's where it's really competitive and crazy. Most people are doing outwards because they have a personal challenge that they're trying to overcome themselves. It's, it's, you know, me versus me sort of situation for most of the people, the top couple of esteem going for the placings. But for most people understand that it's all about survival and getting to the finish line some which way, and the moments that I've, in my school where I've been literally people saved my lives, people have helped me. Speaker 2: (11:58) I've helped other people in medical situations where you're in dire straights. I mean, one comes to mind. I was running across Nigeria a 333 K race. I'm terribly organized, one of the most poorest, most dangerous countries on earth. Civil war going on. I got food poisoning an hour into the race, passing out and really deep trouble. And one of the other girls comes past me in the race. You know, I'm alone, unconscious in the same, she gets me, you know, wakes me up, gets me out, warms me up, stays with me, keeps me on my feet, drags my ass until the next checkpoint. You know, it took a good couple of hours that she lost out of that in a, in a race that's, you know, on the edge of crazy. And that, that's sort of a sacrifice for someone that she didn't even know, you know, she'd meet two days before and was just phenomenal, you know? Speaker 2: (12:54) And it's those sorts of moments that you think, wow, this is more than just about, did I get to the finish line or not? This is about humanity and this is about, and you know, you, when you, when you go outside of yourself and you, you might be suffering in an ultra somewhere, right? And you're just like, Oh my God, I don't know how I'm going to get there. And then you come across someone who's in worse shape tell you what you like, focus fully on them and you'll forget that you're suffering and they're not an arrow to go buy a new guy. Like, where did my pain go? It's absolutely amazing how when you focus on someone else, your own suffering disappears or diminishes. That's the point. Like when we're stuck in center head, that's when we're behind enemy lines. The only way to get out by an enemy lines is turn your thoughts towards helping somebody else. Speaker 2: (13:48) I mean, think about it, right? When we started encouraging others in those races, we're encouraging ourselves at the same time. So church is, so that's the, so if anybody wants to get actually any of your books, where do they go? They just go to www.drrobbell.com or have they always said that's the best way. Yeah, www.drrobbell.com and and the book on so no one gets there, gets there alone is also sort of a story that was the story of the half iron man and the guy's not going to change my tire. Absolutely. Yeah. And nobody does get there alone in life in general. We all need a team of people and we all need to stand on each other's shoulders, so to speak, to, to reach the top. Tell us a little bit about now your, your work with the athletes that you worked with and some examples perhaps of, of amazing experiences that you've had and things that you've seen in your time as a coach. Yeah, I mean, Speaker 3: (14:53) Yeah, I was saying, I mean I was, I was blessed enough to know early on in my life, this is what I wanted to do. And I got into the field because I was the athlete that would always think too much and no one can, no one could ever help me out, at least never go in, would always say, Hey, those butterflies go away and playing baseball then everyone away for me. And you know, I had a really, I had a hinge moment when I got to college and that was because I was partying way too much. I thought I can play baseball and party in college and be the best, no accountability, what could go wrong. And I, and I fell off a 80 foot cliff in college and you know, fraction my back broke my arm and that was the end of sport. Speaker 3: (15:31) And yeah, that was a hinge most of my life because from that moment on now, everything was different. If that didn't happen, I don't know if I would have taken that psychology class. I don't know if I would've had that one professor who had just spoke right to my soul and I knew I want to do with my life. And you know, always, always be in the ultimate sports honk. And it didn't matter what it was, but if we're trying to do something to the best that we can I just discovered early on that everyone needs a coach. Speaker 4: (16:06) Okay. Speaker 3: (16:06) There's all these demons that I think get in the way of us trying to reach greatness and what we're doing and really as a coach and, and you know, as well as I do, I mean, it, it does take a team and there are no shortcuts. There are no shortcuts to it. And our job is to point out the blind spots in people's lives. I think there's many ways, many routes up to that mountain. There's not one route. And which is going along the journey with athletes and helping them get to where they want to go as just been absolute blessing. I mean, you know, with any coach, I mean there's two types of coaches, those that have been fired and those that will be fired. I've been fired before, you know, so I've been at the lowest of lows. And then when in in the highest of highs you know, our job as coaches sometimes to work ourselves out of a job that's not, that's not the best business model. Speaker 3: (17:02) I don't know. Somebody, I don't know, somebody selling insurance that wants to come in there and be like, boy, I don't really think you need me anymore as insurance sales. So if we're trying to work ourselves out of a job because you know, we're trying to build them up in their capacity, you're gonna get fired. So, I mean, that's, there's just so many examples. I mean, it's just I really just focus on the office that we have and what's the office? So my office is a swimming pool. My offices, you know, is there going to be that golf course sometimes? Is that executive board, but other times, I mean, it's a you know, it's the race track. It's, it's going to be you know, on a, you know, at the tennis match. And then that's, that's the best part. It's just what the office looks like. So you, you, you try and cut Chinese leaps, end Speaker 2: (17:50) Corporate executives. So in all types of sports, what are the, some of the biggest things that in general now people are struggling with? Like is there a couple of central themes that people just keep coming back to that you see again and again as being a major Speaker 3: (18:09) Problem for people on their bridge? Sure. So I think when whenever we hit a new level, there's going to be a new devil. And so a lot of the difficulties when we get like that success and how do we deal with that if, if I've got to boil it down in what I think like the essential mental skills come. I mean obviously the building block of all mental toughness is, is going to be that motivation, right? It's going to be that persistence is, gets back to our why. You know, your goals, your, how are we willing to do the things that we don't want to do? Yeah. After that, then it comes into confidence and I mean confidence that, that trust, that belief in ourselves. And what we're trying to do. There has to be that belief. I believe that everyone has that, but it just gets really muted throughout our lives. Speaker 3: (18:59) A lot of times when we listen and then to that wrong voice, we're not, I think it comes to confidence. What I believe is that we have to adapt the philosophy that it all works out in the end. If it hasn't, then you know what? It's just not the ENT. And that's, that's a big part of what people suffer with. I think another one then it comes back to then focus like how do we build our confidence to what we're focused on? Are we focused on the excitement? Are we focused on being nervous? If we focus on being excited physiologically? I said same exact thing, right? Like we are palms get sweaty. Like we get real anxious, you know, it gets rolling. Our thoughts are a lot, but boy is that nervous or is that excited? Because I think it's excited. It means I want to be in this situation something good can happen. Speaker 3: (19:45) Being nervous means I don't want to be in the situation. This is a threat. And then being able to train our mind to focus on everything is an opportunity. That's how we build a confidence in ourselves. And then that, and then I think that last field, so we got the, the motivation, the confidence, the focus. And then I think that last mental skill, which I suck at is how do we let go? Mistakes. If you show me, if you show me an athlete that can let go mistakes, I will show you somebody that's mentally tough. So I like to say this, our confidence focus is how we build our confidence. How we refocus just reveals the level of confidence. Wow. What I mean by that, if you show me an athlete that makes mistakes and still stay school calm and collected, well what they're really saying is I don't need everything to go my way in order to be successful. And we know bad stuff's going to happen, right? But it's all about how we adjust from that. If you show me an athlete that his or her cool when stuff starts going bad, I'm going to show you somebody that never had any confidence to begin with and then they got to play the mental gymnastics and not as well as competing against themselves. That's where it gets really tough. Speaker 2: (21:00) See, this is a journey for you as I'm making toughness coach, it's not like it's, it's an easy thing we've got at once and we've, we're away laughing and we're never ever going to have a problem again. That doesn't quite work like that. Speaker 3: (21:11) No man, people were, people make more fun of me when I get upset because it's like, wait a minute, I thought you're supposed to be good at this stuff. Speaker 2: (21:16) Yeah. You know, I have moments, Tobin, I'm thinking, you know, you just watch your own behavior sometimes and you're going, hang on a minute. This isn't cool and I'm glad I was watching. Speaker 3: (21:29) Right. It is. I don't think we were really made to coach ourselves. Speaker 2: (21:32) I think we need others to coach us. Very, very good point. It's hard to get out of your own forest and see the trees when you're in the middle of it and someone who has that seed perspective on you can give you a lot of more insight into your behaviors that you're not actually even seeing. And I really love that challenge versus, and I have been in mind, you know, things that I talk about, the challenge versus the threat and changing your cause. It actually changes your physiology when you're standing at the start of a massive race and you start to feel fear and step B, feel nervous and Oh my God, am I trying enough? And all of those things that are going to be absolutely no good to you, they're not. They're not going to help you and your performance then by changing the narrative and your story, like you said, exciting opportunity. Speaker 2: (22:19) This is amazing what you know, what a chance to have that releases actual hormones in your body. The more testosterone you get, more bold feeling rather than the nerves. And that can just change your perspective. And it's a subtle change. Sometimes it's not, you know, like a massive thing. But it'd be enough just to get you over the line and get you going. And we all know like that waiting around for rice can be the worst time once you're actually on the way and you're five Kaizen. It's like right, I got this. But those nerves at the beginning can be pretty bloody horrible, can't they? And that's I can imagine with someone like golfers, I don't play golf, but the mental toughness, a completely different type of mental toughness, but the ability when all eyes are on you and on the, you know, one sick and when you hit the ball, they must have some special challenges as its own. Speaker 3: (23:10) Yeah. And that's it. Cause there's so much time in between shots, you know, but that's why we need people like you to the poor my life and to coach me up cause I can't push myself. Speaker 2: (23:19) Well I had, I loved me to help me get to that a hundred miler that would like, and we can swap some, I need some coaching on, on the mental toughness. How do you do this? How do you bring it across? Be, you know, cause you've obviously been doing this a long time seeming books as let's say in lots and lots of athletes who are Olympic athletes and corporate people and you know, Ben have really had massive success working with you. That's always exciting to connect with and you know, amazing people. And this is, this is one of the selfish reasons I have this podcast. So I get to meet cool people like you. So this is not all selfless. Once again now you see it on your website, there was a quote there that I really resonated with. If you only focus on success, then you'll never reach significance. But if you're living in a life of significance, then success will follow. Yeah. Quote. so if you're focused on Jess winning all the time, just on the money, just on the whatever it is, it's all gold. It's not going to bring you the joy in life. Actual the legacy, if you like. Is that right? Speaker 3: (24:31) Well, that's absolutely true. And the, and the reason why is because well let's use Mount Everest as an example, right? I mean the, the year it takes in terms of preparation, the four to 30 to 40 days of actual hiking, they spend what, 10 15 minutes at the top and when did most of the deaths occur on the way down from Mount Evers? And so I mean, if it's all about the journey, it's all about the process and it's all about who we can help along the way. That's how I think that we get real significance in our life. The fact of you know, even those that hold up the trophy, even those that fly back with a gold medal from the Olympics, there are people that had that feeling lease of, boy is that it? Or okay, okay, now what? Now I've spent my whole life for this and I got it. Speaker 3: (25:25) What now? And, and, and that's the part, right? The new level, new devil. If we focus on other people and making that impact along the way of our journey them, that's how we just focus on, you know, success is going to happen from us. And that's the part of just being able to focus on that process. And be able to make that impact. Those with elite athletes, I mean there, there has to be selfishness there because of how much time it takes. But at the same time, how can we help others along that journey and, and using our skill and our craft and our God given talent to help others. That's how we get that. That's how we get that significance. Speaker 2: (26:11) Yeah. And so it's not just about that gold medal and most people who have, who have a gold medal or something massive success will also understand that it wasn't them alone that got them there. Unless, you know egomaniacs but most of them will understand that this was a team effort. You know, and this was and like you say, we're not all going to be on the gold medalists. We're not all going to be world champions. So it's defining success, insignificance as well. Like the significance for me, like I want to have an, I knew obviously the same, want to have an impact on, on many, many lives and change lives with the knowledge that we have and help people through the journey and help them avoid the problems and the, you know, fast track them to, to success and help them reach their full potential. Speaker 2: (27:06) And therein lies the significance more than the couple of finish lines that are, you know, reached or the podiums that I've managed to reach in the middle that's hanging on the wall. That's all great stuff. But at the end of the day, I think you and I at least when we get to the end of our days, want to look back and go, wow, that all right. I helped a lot of people and I made a big impact in the world and I left the legacy. And these are, these are words that I think you know really, really important for us to have in our vocabulary and to be thinking about, it's not just the individual moment, it's not the selfish endeavor. And I mean, as an athlete I was, when I look back over my younger career and stuff, I was selfish to the point of, you know, I didn't understand I was selfish, but I expected everyone else. Speaker 2: (27:58) But there were doubts around my mission. You know, I was very mission oriented and very focused and that was the only thing in the world that was important. And I understand now that we added a lot of sacrifice on the behalf of other people, had to sit price for me to get there. And you know, you do lead that single-mindedness to, to achieve those sorts of things. But understanding now it's a bit more older person that you there isn't the only macro of success in the, yeah. So Dr Rob what book are you working on at the moment and what are some of the other sort of mental toughness tricks that you can help people gives people, you know, there are a lot of people suffering out there. There are a lot of people with lacking massive self confidence and self belief. They've been told perhaps their whole lives, they're not good enough, that they're not the right shape and not the right height. They're not the right one either to be good at something. Have you got any words of wisdom for them? Speaker 3: (29:03) Sure. I mean the, or the next book that I'm working on, it's called puke and rally. How, how champions adjust. And I know you get this one cause you thrown up and racist too as well. And it's not, yeah, it's not about the puke, it's about the rally and the fact of, you know what? Everyone in our life, everyone has puked. So no matter what, everyone has had setbacks, everyone has had failures. They are inevitable. That is going to happen. The only way to do it is to sit on the sidelines of life. And then you just live a completely different life. You know, if you want to be in the game, there's going to be, there's going to setbacks. And I believe, and if anybody listening that that resonates with this, that it's not about the setback, it's about to come back. Yeah. That's, that's what matters. Speaker 3: (29:51) So it's about the rally. It's about how we rally on your point. I believe this is everyone that has reached high levels of success was told you can't do it. That's a dumb idea. Don't try it. Why is that? Cause I haven't come across anybody that's achieved anything that has, you know, you especially with your mom were told by doctors, there's no way that that person's going to come back. And what does it do? Well, it Galvin not yes it has proved people wrong and I'm going to prove them wrong and that motivation, but it also has like in order to do something, you better believe in yourself. And so if we listen, I mean we got to really thank the people that say you can't do it because they're the ones that are given us a diner, are going to galvanize our own spirit, our own soul and our own confidence towards achieving that goal. Speaker 3: (30:45) And no matter what it's going to be there. Now I think it's really difficult to like coach that way. You know, you can't coach that way. I mean, but I do it all the time. Sometimes I can in short situations tell my pro golfers, boy, there's no way you get this ball up and down and say par and you know what it does, I'll watch me. Right. I'll show, I'll show you. Yeah. And that's the point is who is it that tells you you can't do it? And then what's the other voice say? What's that true voice? Cause like I said, I believe everybody has that confidence muscle. It's there, you know, it just sometimes getting muted so much in our life. But what is that voice really saying and allow that voice instead to be able to come out. You know, a lot of times what I think is we as individuals, I mean we, we hear that voice that we were as a nine year old kid, you know, from our dads saying, you know, how could you strike out? How could you miss up? And then that's the voice that we got in her head. Well, if that's the voice in our head, then what's the real voice that want? And that's, that's the key is just allowing that real voice then and be able to come out and, and sometimes, you know, we've gotta be able to tell ourselves and yell at ourselves rather than just listen to it. Speaker 2: (31:57) Yeah. And, and, and this is, and we've all had those naysayers in their life. And I know in my life I wouldn't have got there inanely of the things I did if I didn't have those people. And if I wasn't trying to prove something, and some people might say that that's a negative motivation, but I actually think that this is a really powerful tool that we can use to really fire the furnaces, to push through those hard times, those obstacles, those times when you want to give up and you think about those people who said you couldn't do it, and you're like, nah, I want to keep going, even though it's painful. When I want to quit, I'm gonna keep on going. And I think that that's a really powerful, and what you see at about the nine year old child, we all have this inner child. Speaker 2: (32:41) I believe this, this kid who took on staff without sautering it, which has landed in our subconscious and then become a part of our thinking mechanisms. You know, when we were paid ugly, told as kids, and often these were teachers, appearance or whatever, we're just having a bad day, you know? But they were telling you things and that they weren't perfect. But when you hear this repeatedly becomes a part of your subconscious programming, and when that becomes the, the voice that sees you useless at sport, you were too dumb to go to university. You're to this, whatever that was that was programmed into your brain. And as an adult, you've got a heck of a job to override that in a subconscious thinking. Is there some ways that you've found to get around that, that programming that we had as kids when Speaker 3: (33:36) Just Speaker 2: (33:37) Put into our subconscious without us even thinking about it? Speaker 3: (33:40) Yeah. The best thing we can do is tell ourselves rather than listen to ourselves. You know what I mean by that is you got to tell yourself what it is that you're going to do here. When you tell yourself then commit to it. When you commit to it, it gets done too often. If we listened to it, then we hear that, well, that voice in the back of my head, you've got to tell that voice sometimes where to go and that it doesn't have a vote in this kind of situation here by confidence. Yeah. Confidence in doubt. Like they live in the same house, but it's confidence. His house now it is a squatter, like it just lives there. Rent free. Well, if there's somebody that overstays their welcome, I'm going to, I'm going to tell them where to go. Right. At least I'm gonna say like, look, it's been a little bit too long. Why don't you just hit the road? But we think you know that doubt that that has a right to live there. And that's the part is tell yourself what you're going to do. Don't listen to yourself. Speaker 2: (34:31) Yeah. And program the stuff that you want in there. So then whether that's through affirmations and outfit gnosis and being around people who are positive, giving the support, the coaching, the mentors, the tribe of people that tell you you can or these things will happen slowly. Speaker 3: (34:51) We assist who you are and what you're capable of. Speaker 2: (34:56) That brings me to the point, you know, the five you have it on your website too. The five people that you hang around with the most. I think it was something, something around there. And so w who you will become. And I think this is also a very important point that we need to bring up. Speaker 3: (35:13) Well, I mean, we, we are, we're a, you show me your friends. I'll show you your future. So true. I mean, if we want a higher net worth, you've got to hang out with people that have a higher net worth. It's just, it's so important because the mindset's different. You know, they, the conversations are different. You know, if you look at any kind of any kind of sport team, I mean, I'll take baseball for instance, but I mean, well, I mean, let's just look at the all blacks, right? The starters are hanging out with the starters all the time. Those are sitting on the bench and not playing. They're hanging out with one another because the conversations are different. And you know, I love the all blacks when it comes to the culture because man, they're focused on the team and boy and I don't know how many little kids are there that aren't thinking, boy, I want to be one. Speaker 2: (35:58) Oh yeah. Everything. Speaker 3: (36:01) And that's the part, I mean, we've gotta be able to hang around successful people and winners, not people that were better than just so we can feel good about ourselves. Yeah. Harrison game. And that doesn't work. Speaker 2: (36:14) Yeah. So when you're hanging around people that you are actually at the top of the class, and if you like, then you don't really, but when you're hanging around people who challenge you and stretch you scare the hell out of you sometimes. Those are the ones that are going to help them change and develop and grow. So pick your tribe carefully is a, is a, is a hugely important message to take away from that one and get the coaching you need and get the support that you need around you so that those naysayers, when they come calling and they will come calling, don't have the control in your mind. And when you do have those naysayers or then you use it as fuel to overcome. Absolutely. Man. Yeah. You find ways to get there. So not people Speaker 3: (36:57) And this, and this is the point, Lisa, and I need you to, I need somebody, show me somebody that that reached success that did not have, somebody said you can't do it. Yeah, maybe there is, but I haven't seen it yet. Speaker 2: (37:10) We've all had those people want, I mean, yeah, I've had them all less through my life and in there can be your family, be your best friends. And it's not to say they're not good people. There may be reasons why they are saying this to you. I know, you know, parts of my family. It was like fear for you because they're scared that you're going to get hurt, you know, or going to fail. And what happens then? And so that can be well-meaning naysayers, but they can still be nice. I as, and we have to get ourselves away from that and listen to the people who've done it and listen to the people who tell you you can do it and that you're going to get there and give you a pass to get on your way. And that's why it's really, really important. I want us to just talk a little bit about scarcity mindset versus the abundance mindset and why it was competitive world that we live in. Speaker 2: (38:03) You know, we don't have to be, well, if I help that person, I mean, classic example, so mental toughness coaches, right? We could be going, well, I'm not talking to him because he's competition, you know? Or I can go, wow, he's got insights that I don't have and perhaps I haven't sliced the, you don't have. And we can. Yeah, we can. We can learn from each other and we can grow. And that's a, that's a classic example of the mindset we both have, which is an abundance mindset and not a scarcity mindset. Do you see a lot of the other, you see a lot of the scarcity mindset and how do you. Speaker 3: (38:37) I mean, you know, I think we all possess, I still possess it. You know what I mean? I, I think true success, true success is when we can root for everybody. Because then what that means is, is, you know, and I, I grew up sometimes I would go to my wife's you know, Thanksgiving and they'd have these meals, but it's a big Italian family. And if you don't get in there, that's going to be gone. Speaker 2: (39:01) Well, right? Speaker 3: (39:04) Yeah. I mean, so if we approach life that way, then what we're saying is, is that there's one piece of pie for me. If I don't get that piece of pie, then it's gone. Look, there's the, being able to root for everybody means that I can still have my slice and you can be successful too. Being able to root for everybody is true success because it means just because that person's successful doesn't mean I can't be successful too. And then we're not playing a zero sum game, then we're playing a game of abundance and then just the game changes, you know, we're playing on a different one. That's the part where I kind of look at like how often am I room for other people and if not, then I'm coming from the point of scarcity. The real part about that and the scary part is then that's what I start projecting. Know the people only when I can get that abundance mindset in here, then, then I'm able to give that away. Speaker 2: (40:01) Yeah. Without being, these are my little pressure steams when no one else is giving them and having that mindset of I have to hold everything in and my knowledge or my, whatever it is, skills or whatever is a scarce thing. It isn't just about one, one point. There's only one slice for you. It's actually lots of highs when you start walking in. And I think just adopting that attitude in life makes you a more generous and caring human being for other people. So doctor, I'm thinking very much for all of these insights today. I really appreciate your time and I hope we will get to have a few more sessions like gruesomely I'd love to swap notes and maybe work on an idea or two with you. And dr Rob also has his own podcast. Can you tell us where people can, can listen to your show wants? Speaker 3: (40:49) Oh well yeah, it's a, it's 15 minutes of mental toughness either on my website, www.drrobbell.com or or Apple. I am and I look forward to having you as a guest on their tool. I can collect is, yeah, cause your book will be coming out. Thanks. Fantastic. And that would be great. Speaker 2: (41:06) No, it'd be absolutely fantastic to do that and I can't wait to do, to do a few things with you, Dr. Rob, I'm very glad that I found you on LinkedIn. It's been fantastic and I'm sure that my listeners would have gotten a lot out of today, so I really appreciate that. Dr Rob bell.com six books Siemens on the way. Go and check those books out. There's also a 30 day challenge on, on Dr Rob's website. Make sure you check that one out as well. And if you've got any questions, I'm sure Dr Rob will help you. If you've got, if you've got anything that you want to know from him, so please reach out to them. Have you got a Instagram handle or a Facebook or anything? I do. It's you know, with Twitter and Instagram says D R or B B E L L. Easy. So doc, Rob, thank you very much for your time today and we'll be in touch again soon. Speaker 1: (41:55) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.  

High-Intensity Interval Training is all the rage at the moment and for good reason, there are so many sporting, performance and health benefits to be had from this type of training. But it isn't all just about all-out sprints and going till you blow but using HIIT Training strategically and learning the different types of HIIT training and how to integrate them into your sporting and fitness goals. Dr. Paul Laursen has a Ph.D. in Exercise Physiology, is an author of the bestselling book "The Science and Application of HIIT Training" alongside co-author Dr. Michael Bucheit.    He is an Endurance coach, high-performance consultant and has helped many of the world's top athletes get the best out of their bodies. He is an Adjunct Professor of Exercise at Auckland's AUT and was formerly the head of Physiology of High-Performance Sport NZ and resides at the nexus between research and applied sports science. He is an expert and goes into in this episode HIIT training types, Heart Rate Variability and how to use it gauge your training and health, Thermoregulation and Artificial Intelligence in training.   He has don 17 Ironmans himself and uses his experiences both as a top-level athlete and scientist to help his athletes. He has two websites www.hiitscience.com where he offers a course in HIIT training for coaches and exercise scientists and his book and www.paullaursen.com.    He is the co-founder of the Floe Bottle  (www.floebottle.com) - which delivers ice slurries via a specially designed bottle for athletes training and racing in extreme temperatures.     Ultramarathon running Pros & Cons Timestamp:   7:13 why is HIIT   Important across all sports? 10:53 how do slow-twitch fibers have in endurance muscles 12:29 the 5 HIIT training weapons 16:03 how far should we go with HIIT training?   18:32 Are other sports (except for running/swimming/rowing considered as HIIT?  20:17 what type of training is best for ultra running? 22:10 Is There a Danger in overtraining? and is there a way of returning to balance? 27:40 ways to reach balance and lowering stress 33:27 About HRV + HRV app (HRV for training) 38:40 The Flow Bottle   We would like to thank our sponsors:   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff   If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:00) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Hi people, and welcome to pushing the limits. Before we get under the under way with today's guest, Dr. Paul Laursen, who I'm going to be introducing in a moment, I just want to remind you to please, if you enjoy the show, give us a rating or review on iTunes. It really, really helps the show get exposure, share it with your friends and your networks. We do a lot of amazing interviews with incredible people and the value that you get out of the show is really, I think, awesome. Some slightly biased well with the time investment. We'd also like to invite you to come and check us out on our website at lisatamati.com And check out our programs. Now we have three flagship programs. We have our online run training system running hot. And this is all about helping you develop your running skills and taking you to the next level. Speaker 2: (01:03) It's how to run faster, how to run further and longer without burning out, without injuries. It's about what even level that you're all with you just starting out in your running career or with you're doing, you know, 101 hundred miler. We'd love to help you there. The other program that we have is called mindset. You now, this is my online mental toughness and emotional resilience equals that you can do, which is all about developing that mental game, getting stronger in your mind, developing leadership qualities helping you be more resilient to cope with all the stresses that life throws at you and how to reframe your mind stronger for whatever challenges you are facing. And then the third flagship program that we have is epigenetic testing. Now, epigenetics is a pretty new area of study. This is an incredible program that we're having huge results with, with our, with our clients. Speaker 2: (02:00) And it's basically personalizing your health and fitness program to you and your genes and how they're expressing right now. So you'll get information from this about Zachary, what foods to eat and what ones to avoid. More importantly what times of the day you should be eating, how many meals they should be having, what work environment you do well and what social environment, what dominant hormones you have, what a body type you have, whole lot of information that will really help you take your training to the next level without being generic. And it's all specifically made for you and what you're doing right now. So check out all those programs at lisatamati.com now today's show, I have Dr. Paul Laursen. Now Dr. Paul is one of the world's leading scientists and hit training that's high intensity interval training. He's a exercise physiologist, the manager of high sport in New Zealand at AUT and is an adjunct professor of exercise physiology at a UT in Oakland. Speaker 2: (03:07) He resides at the nexus between research and applied sports science and physiology and he's a real expert on HIIT training on HIV, on Sumo regulation and on using AI for training. So it's really interesting interview. I'm sure you're going to get a lot out of it now without further ado, over to the show. Well, hi everyone. Listen to how many here at pushing the limits. Once again, thank you so much for your loyalty and coming back to the show every week. I really, really appreciate it. I'm super, super excited. I've been studying all yesterday and I've got one of the, one of the world's leading experts and head science and exercise physiology on the show today. I'm Dr. Paul Laursen, so thank you very much, Dr. Paul for being on the show. Welcome to the pushing the limits. Oh, thank you for having me. Listen. Honored to be here. It's so exciting. Dr Post's setting in Canada but he also knows New Zealand very well because he was the head of exercise physiology over here. Yeah. and you were here for two Olympic cycles training our Olympic athletes. Speaker 3: (04:15) That's right. Yeah. I was there for the Rio or, yeah, the London and the Rio Olympic cycles and I was leading the physiology team at that point in time, so, Oh wow. Great times. Awesome memories based at the millennium Institute on the North shore in Oakland. And you know, words have a hard time kind of describing this, like what a great time in life. That was for my whole family and stuff and so much learning along the way as well. That really forms where I'm at today with hit signs and some of the other stuff that we'll talk. Speaker 2: (04:52) Yeah, because you're really at the cutting age between your, you yourself are a very experienced iron man triathlete. So you have experience actually as an athlete as well as being a professor and exercise physiology and having all these experience with Olympic athletes. That must, you know, it's an incredible combination. Can you drop a few names of people that you perhaps worked with an ORC and that'd be interesting to, to, to know. Speaker 3: (05:21) Well I mean, you know, I don't know if I can really name drop too much. Like it's not, I think the cool thing about being a physiologist is that you, you sit in the background and you work with people and you work with all the top coaches and the top athletes, but you really just need to, yeah. You just kind of be the quiet person in the back. And I mean anyone in that you can just about anyone in that Olympics, those two Olympic cycles, you touch their program and see the, through the coaches support. It's a big end. Like it's, and again, I'm just one cog in the wheel of the high-performance system, so it's just, and it's a whole, it's all about team and yeah. So but yeah, no lots, lots of other, lots of big names, but they're not big on dropping. Speaker 2: (06:15) Fair enough. Fair enough. So Dr. Paul today I want to go into some of your areas, especially special day. So a lot of my audience, not all of them, but a lot of my audience are runners. And many of them are ultra marathon runners. And I'd like to we're going to get into the science of, of hit training. So high intensity interval training for those listening and how the supplies and maybe something in, in the sport, like, like marathon running or long distance running and, and what sort of benefits we can gain from it. So can you tell us a little bit about band and then I would like to go later on to heart rate variability and or those sort of good things as well. But let's start with training. So you've written the book on her, on her training what does the title the signs and application of her training. Can you tell us a little bit about why is it training so important across so many sports? Speaker 3: (07:14) Yeah, it's, it's a, it's super important. And, and when you look at a sport like ultra distance running, you would think it may be almost has no place, but in fact your listeners can get massive gains by implementing such type of training in their, in their programming. And you know, well, let's maybe ask the question why, why would someone who's doing a, you know, a hundred K ultra possibly benefit from hit? And the, I, I guess they're, they're really, I mean, we should also define what hit is like high intensity interval training specifically is defined as repeated bouts of high intensity exercise that are performed above your threshold. So that threshold kind of pace going to be above that by by default for it to be called kit, but not even moderate intensity sustained efforts. We're actually talking like above your your threshold. In other words, it's, you can't sustain the exercise for too long before you have to stop and take a breath. Speaker 3: (08:19) If you were to hold the exercise intensity up there, you would, you know, you need to ultimately fatigue. So if you're doing this repeatedly, you're actually you're listening some effects in your physiology that you're not going to be getting from just your steady state exercise, your long distance training. And some of these key ones are recruitment of your fast Twitch muscle fibers. So you get to, you know, you get to build on those fast Twitch muscle fibers. You, you know, you have to use those by default to perform such exercise. And that creates the adaptations you want, especially as an ultra distance runner. You want to create those faster Twitch muscle fibers, make them more slow Twitch like, or fatigue resistant and oxidative. And you do that by if it's, if the stimulus is repeated, you wind up actually doing that. So and then the second one relates. Speaker 3: (09:15) So that's the peripheral component. The second component really relates to the central component. And I am like, I'm pointing to my, when I'm saying central component, I'm really pointing to my, my heart, my cardiac cardiac apparatus. So the VIN trip, the ventricles of the heart wind up stretching out further filling up further. And by default they actually push more blood out to your stroke volume, winds up, increasing your cardiac output winds up increasing. So you and you and you get more so than chicken as stretch, more so than if you were just gonna do a steady state long exercise. So by supplementing his exercise into an ultra distance program, not all, but just that, you know, intermittently in the week your listeners will get you know, a real, real good bang for their buck. Speaker 2: (10:09) Yeah, no, I as an, as a young athlete before I knew what the hell I was doing at all, I used to do just miles and miles of slow, long distance running. I had no speed genetically speaking, you know, I wasn't right. Didn't have a great Theo to max or anything like that. And so for years, especially in ultra distance, it was very much a sort of a pioneering time if you like, you know, 20 something years ago and we had no idea of anything or at least not my circles. I just go out and just run long and slow because that's what we were going to be doing in the race long. And so and of course I could get to the finish line of those races, but it wasn't the most efficient style of training as I now know. But it was, it took me a bit of a stretch to get my head around why, you know, if I'm all about the slow Twitch fibers, I'm all about the endurance. Speaker 2: (10:58) What possible benefit can I do by recruiting my fast Twitch fibers? And I'm sure I've got very few left. I don't know if you can lose them all when you're doing journeys training. So how do the fast switch fibers actually benefit you later in a, in a, in a longer race, for example? You know, why is it not just all about the slow Twitch fibers I get, I get the cardio output side of things. You're going to be fed, you know, Hy-Vee, [inaudible] and so on. But from the flow Twitch fibers don't ant they the most important thing for an endurance runner. Speaker 3: (11:34) Yeah, they would definitely be the most important thing. However the more fast of the larger motor units you know, it's a bit of a continuum. It's, you know, it's hard to say whether a one is actually fast versus slow. So the key thing is actually the like, like you want to be able to these larger motor units like the the fast Twitch fibers, and when you do, they're more powerful right there. They're actually bigger. And these more, these bigger and more powerful motor units when they're contracting, they're going to be able to propel you a lot faster than your slower ones. So your pace will be able to be increased. Your pace on the Hills will be a lot better. You just have, you, you'll just feel a lot more energy ultimately. So you'll be able to, Speaker 2: (12:23) Yeah, a sustain a higher pace even over the longer, along with us sensors. Now there are different types of training. Do you, have, you talked about the five training weapons, I think you call them. Let's look at that because you know you know, for the average person, hit training just means, you know, perhaps sprinting and then backing off and sprinting again. What are some of the variables and some of those different types of pet training that we can do? Speaker 3: (12:51) Yep. So the two key variables and the most influential ones are the intensity of the workout and the duration of the work boat. Those are the two key ones, right. And then we can also look at the recovery interval as well. The intensity and the duration of the recovery interval. But let's just focus on you know, if we break the intensities up, the first one we usually start with is our long interval. And this would be just above your are just, sorry, just at, pardon me, your VO two max exercise intensity if and if you know where that might might be. Right. So that might be sitting on a, you know, repeated one K efforts on the track would be typically if you're going to do, you know you know, six of those that's typically around your BX max and exercise intensity or you know, you're, you're starting your 1500 meter to 3000 meter run pace on the track, all that kind of thing. Speaker 3: (13:46) So, but yeah, so you're kind of repeating those four, a two to five minutes repeated, repeated bouts of that for two to five minutes at that pace. And that's typically, or that's considered your a long interval. And that's the first of the five questions that you referred to. Second weapon is the short interval. The short interval aren't done. It just a marginally higher exercise intensity that we've done in a long interval, you know and these might be on the track, might be like, Nope, 100 or 200 or 300 meter repeats, something like that with the equivalent. Usually equivalent rest intervals is recovery too. So I've done a little bit harder, not much, just a little bit more harder than the long interval with with, with some sh with equivalent short rests. So these are typically in the 10, second to 62nd range duration and 10 seconds to 62nd range of recovery. Speaker 3: (14:43) Got, there's your long interval, there's your short interval, and then the, the other three. Let's let so the next one is you, you referred to it. Do I all out? But yeah, the next two are all out maximal sprints. Tobacco, like intervals for the sprint interval training. Those are the long sprints or really short and sharp all out short sprints for repeated sprint interval sprinting. And we'll try it. So I'm sorry, repeated sprint training, R, R, S. T. and then the last one is not used too much in the the ultra distance context, I would think. But it's game-based interval training. So there's a good, there's a good team sport base of of people in New Zealand with the rugby and the football. All those various different sports. And if you're in a team sport, you're definitely using game-based animal training. They're typically, they're like, you're actually in putting the ball into play as you do an interval Speaker 2: (15:41) And making it a bit more fun and very short sort of sharp bursts of, of, of activity. Speaker 3: (15:46) So, and the coach will actually do that and they'll kind of almost trick their players into getting the, the, the work the work done. So yeah, they create, create fun, but it's also very sports-specific too. So you can see why it's so successful in the team sport contents. Speaker 2: (16:02) Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you said, you said trick them into it because you know, we, when I hear training I hear, Oh no. And I like personally when I have to go, I've got a head session on today, it's like, Oh no, here we go. You know how, how do you overcome that sort of a feeling of like, because you know, should you be going to the point of, of absolute exhaustion and throwing up in the bucket somewhere during these sessions? Or is that going too far? Like, you know and it is another question too. Is training only in relation to running like cardiovascular or a bike or can you do say a tobacco session net counts as a hit training session? So it can be weights relate related or is it only sort of cycling and Speaker 3: (16:54) I'm running? Sure. So let's start with your first question there, which is basically around the whole, you know, does it have to do, have to go to the weld? Does it have to be no pain, no gain? And that is a really important question that you asked Lisa because it's absolutely not, the shouldn't hit equipment hit training was never originally designed for that. It you should like, it should not be no pain, no gain. Like, that's not if you've taken it to where it's too painful, like that's, you've taken it too, too far and it's ultimately not, not very effective for almost like a longevity type type sort of thing. So you, the key thing that we find with training, those who are most successful in training are those who backup session after session. Consistency of training is key. And if you are going to the well and you're killing yourself and you're not able to perform the next day because you to be trained too hard in a hit session or for whatever year you're slowing down the progression compared to what you could actually, she had you had, you punched a little bit back and then repeated that repeated some sort of a session the next day. Speaker 3: (18:10) So that's the first question. It's not about no pain, no gain. It's not about going to the, well, always leave a session like you could have done one more. So the first rule remind me of your second question. Second question was, is it only cardio is hit training only in relation to say cycling and running is yes, no cardio, you know, activities also tobacco and or CrossFit, you know, those sort of things counted as hit training. Yeah, bit of a debatable one. So from a purest standpoint, it's typically we're talking about a, you know, a, a mode of exercise like cycling, running, rowing, swimming, a whole body type exercise. However, there's lots of ways to skin the cat as we love to say. And you know, there's a lot we see this being done throughout team sports and exercise and fitness industries, CrossFit, etc. Speaker 3: (19:09) And the, you know, there's, there's certainly way, loads of different ways to kind of do that. So I guess it's kinda yes and kind of no on that question. It just really depends on the camp that you're sitting in. Here's to our own. Yeah. And also like, I mean also depends probably on like what you're trying to. So if you're a time crunched individual that has to sit in an office and work most of the day, you know, you might like a cross fit type exercise where it's hitting lots of different things like circuit training, that might be all you can kind of get in in the day. And that might be really practical to your context. So it's super, super. If we're going to take the professional athlete, we don't recommend it because the professional athlete context, typically we can just be a little bit more precise with the, with the training and we don't have to be super setting everything and going back and forth. Speaker 3: (20:05) That will differ and that will differ across you know, beliefs and strategies of, of different conditioners. That's just what Martin and I kind of feel with our, with what we, what it is that we do. So it's very specific to the sport hat that you're doing. So you would train a soccer player different than you would train to note for a marathon runner or an iron man triathlete. What are some of the typical training? I mean, not typical training sessions. Probably a hard one to answer, but if you had an athlete coming to you that doing a hundred K, what type of trainings would you prescribe to them as a typical part of the week? Yep. So if Speaker 3: (20:48) I was training an ultra runner, I would probably train them very similar to a, you know, a marathoner and I would train them, you know, they would they would have lots of elements of the long slow distance type training in it, but they would fit in terms of the hid sessions. There would likely be a short interval session in there. So like 30 on 30 off, you know, set point in certain sets of 30 on 30 off, say like you know, seven 30 on 30 off and then followed by five minutes easy. And then repeat that. So you're actually listening of the OT response and you're again recruiting those fast Twitch muscle fibers. I might have a long interval in there, a few long intervals at a couple of different moments in the, in the training program. I would be implementing Hill training in there. Most definitely because so many ultras actually have have a Hill requirement. Plus that would be kind of a, as a strength endurance element that we wanted their, both that benefit that you get both on the uphill climbing as well as the downhill. So I think those would be the key. Those would be the key elements in addition to some moderate intensity, pace, pace work and lots of lots of long distance work in there. Speaker 2: (22:07) Yeah. And that's sort of what we sort of, you know, adhere to, to generally. So I want to ask you what are the dangers like? I just, you know, selfishly asking for personal reasons now I've done obviously, you know, loving long time of doing stupid amount of running. And in the beginning, you know, just doing huge, huge mileage and now I'm totally not into huge monitor meant more the, you know, bearing everything up and the five pillars, we call them, say, you know, your strength training in mobility, your, you run sessions of varying types your nutrition and your mental game as well. But I've run into problems with burnout and adrenal exhaustion and the HPA access, you know, in the gutter, basically cortisol, not while I'm like at a stage now where the cortisol is just not, not producing at all. It's just like more day is have. And I think I've done too many we're long staff and the, the head stuff as well. Is your danger in doing too much overtraining and can you come back from that very complicated your way back for me? Speaker 3: (23:34) Yeah. I mean I think the body always wants to get back and heal itself and return to homeostasis and balance. Right. So, so, and I think you know, the answer to the first question, you certainly can burn out food too much, too much yet. And that is a, so you may have seen the article in the film afternoon and I wrote on the unhealthy athlete and that's really around the old you know, burnout thing with fit but unhealthy. Healthy. Yeah. So it's made its rounds around rounds around the world and, and yeah, that's one of the ones that, yeah, I mean I even saw that a lot in the high performance sport context, whether it was just too much intensity in certain programs and we do see this, this burnout that actually occurs. And yeah, it really, really, it's just, it just requires a period of rest and provides a, usually a well let me back up a bit and just say that, you know, there's stress comes in many different forms and it's often not just the high intensity interval training that's contributing to that. Speaker 3: (24:37) A lot of times it's a bunch of different stressors that are coming into play and creating a perfect storm ultimately. So we've got, you know, nutrition can be a stress in itself if it's inappropriate for the individual. A lack of sleep is a huge stressor. Psychosocial stresses that we all experience through our human existence, going to life. So all of these things create and then add exercise into that as well. If any of those are creating too much of a stress, but we're all, it affects what you mentioned, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access, the HPA axis, which is basically our integrator in the brain between the nervous system and the endocrine system. And it, it it's there to help protect us. At least it was, and now I can can sabotage. That's right. Speaker 3: (25:29) And, and yeah, and then also we can see we can reach the point where it's you know, it's almost done a little bit too much and we're not able to return to create, to you know, create the hormonal profile that we need to have control our moods and, and these sorts of things. Right. But at the end of the day, it requires rest and recovery. One of the, one of the little tricks that I like to use, or I sometimes when that happens, is a floating, and I'm not sure if floating is taken off in New Zealand has around flotation tanks. Speaker 3: (26:10) It's a great means of of resetting and returning the body to homeostasis. What immune, it's not like you're going to get there on one single float, but it's like a series of floats can reset the sleep and then it can, and then the body can kind of come back into rhythm. You really need to get back into that circadian rhythm again and getting, yeah, so, so what you're saying, and it's something that we talk about a lot and now coaching is you've got a bucket of stress and it, you, if you were sticking in mental stress, Speaker 2: (26:44) Work, stress can stress whatever wrong photos and then your bucket sets here fall and then you've stopped putting in training loads that and when you're not a professional athlete, you just, you know, busy executive or something with three kids, then you're going to overfill the bucket and then you've got to tip over. And that's when they sorts of things can start to happen. And and on that point we could get onto the heart rate variability in a moment. But yeah, it is, it is quite a struggle. What we're seeing a lot of with the people that we're coaching is where we touch a lot of Sonata elite athletes as much as probably 80% woman and their thirties, forties and 50s who are having hormonal changes as well as going through, you know, but trying to still stay at the top end of the of their game, wherever they're at. And that can be quite a tricky tight rope walk as well. Have you got any experience or any advice for, for say, a woman approaching those changes, menopausal years, period, menopause in regards to the training that can help them get through that period if you like. Speaker 3: (28:00) You know, I don't I don't have any great advice that's you know, it doesn't really add on what I just kinda mentioned. Like you've got to, so those changes are going to be happening. That's a natural physiological occurrence. Can't get away from that. And your management of those issues is going to relate to your own context. You're going to do the best you can. But some of these strategies such as really checking in with your diet, you know you know, potentially there's a lot of individuals that have, I think they've gotten the diet right, but maybe it could actually be better not issues. That's a real telltale sign that something's a little bit off. You get some help with that. Cause that could be, you know, two things that are, that are kind of going awry in the, in the diet or in the, in the stressors. Speaker 3: (28:57) And then, you know, things like in meditation it's so much easier to say that harder to do, but if people can find a meditation practice that helps, that is, that is one, another way that you can kind of reset the HPA axis. Almost forced meditation is this look flood tank kind of, lot of people can't have, they can't even imagine getting into one of these isolation tanks because they think like they're just so claustrophobic and anxious about it. And that is again, a telltale sign that they could be an issue there. Right. If he can't do that, that's another, yeah. That, that anxiety might be elevated. Stress might be elevated in that individual too. So, and where do you start with us? You know, I don't know. You just take one step at a time, fix one little thing, make one step towards becoming a, you know, lowering that stress in your life. Yeah. Because there's no, there's never a blanket solution for every individual. And look, in my experience, the menopause process is very, it's quite variable. It's, you know, it's, it's all, it's weird on one morning and then it's fine the next moment. And then, yeah. Speaker 2: (30:21) Big conscious self proponent to be a good general Rowando. I'm not expecting the eighth all the time of yourself. But yeah, I think that the message, and I know I'm a very big proponent of meditation or deep breathing exercises and things like the Wim Hoff meets ed or those sort of areas that can help sort of stimulate that parasympathetic nervous system and calm the body down so that it is Speaker 3: (30:45) Not completely in fight or flight all the time. Having seen things. Yeah. Can I add one other big one is, you know, we're, we're both using it right now as we speak and some of the listener because they're listening to us likely on some sort of technology device, but it's, technology is a real big elephant in the room too. We haven't had that in the past. And that is another thing that really affects our stress levels as being glued, you know, to our, to our phones and to our computers and iPads and all these various different things. You know, it's become integrated and part of our life. But that's another big factor that we can, that can really make a difference. And that's probably why, you know, ultras are so appealing to people because their phone and need there need a little bit of technology behind when they go. Speaker 3: (31:40) They can just get away from it for a certain amount of time. And if you're feeling that way, like I know you, I know I do. So you've got, you know, there's, there's a, there's a little bit of magic that's probably within that whole you know need that we kind of need to appreciate. So last year I went on a big big paddle trip, but the family, and it was in a place in British Columbia where there's no technology and it's like, yeah, it's public. It was called the Bower and lakes. It's a series of, you know, 11 lakes and your poor through it. And there's just no point in taking any technology cause there's nothing out there. So you just, you live in when you're camping or that many days. And I just, you know, I can't tell you how incredible that was a whole reset of the, of the HPA axis for me. I just like, you know, it's back to nature and stuff. So doing more ultras. Speaker 2: (32:40) Yeah. I think, I think that's something that I'm miss. Cause I've stopped doing ultra marathons the last three years. I had a mum who got sick and I hate to, you know, drop everything and rehabilitate here. And I miss that singularity of thought and that, those hours of clearing the mind every day. And that's something that really is missing, especially when you're, you know, like, like yourself running businesses and folly. You know, always high-performance everything. And it can really be a load on the whole body that I think is actually worse than the load of ultra Raleigh. If I could go back to the simple days when all I had to worry about was the finish line getting to the finish line, it was a whole lot simpler than all that stuff that we have typically in our life and our crazy world now have coming at us. On their point. I wanted to start talking just briefly about HIV heart rate variability and how you use this to judge. What is it first status. Cause a lot of people still haven't really heard what heart rate variability is and how it works and how they can use it in their training. Can you talk a little bit about that? Speaker 3: (33:49) Sure. So heart rate variability is what the word kind of described. So it's variation of the heartbeat. And a lot of times when we, when we just start out and we just think of heart rate in itself, we think of it more of a less like a clock or like a metronome. And it just goes tick tock, tick tock, you know, if you're to, you know, listen to your heart, that's what you would think. But in actual fact, there's a lot of variation that's going on beat to beat. So it's like, it's actually going tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. And that variation, what scientists have discovered is that that variation in those beads actually means something when it's more like the clock or the metronome and it's just, it's right on time. You're using what's called your sympathetic system or your fight or flight. Speaker 3: (34:41) Okay. So your stress would be high. And when it's really a lot more variable, I'm going all over the place. Well that's more associated with the parasympathetic system, the rest and digest system being relaxed or recovery like when you're sleeping. So what's what's happening now is there's, we've, we've gotten very innovative means being able to get, get a hold of the area of this heart rate variability. And that's why people are hearing a lot more about this. If I certainly measure this in my own athletes and they can because they can do it. So simply now, and this was a, we had, we had the honor of being a part of this innovation and development and validation of it, the AUT lab in millennium. And we verified this HRV for training, not the HIV for training actually uses the iPhone camera. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this, but basically you can measure you can measure your heart rate variability just using like the, the phone, like a phone camera so you can actually use and you can actually like get a measure of your heart rate variability just on your, on your oxygen. Speaker 3: (36:02) Oh, well this is teeny of HIV for training. And we verify this and lab with against CCGs standard ECG. It uses various different, you know artificial intelligent means of, of just a, a stab wishing the, the HIV and it's even better than using a polar chest strap. We discovered HIV training so they can, people can get that in the app store and, and, and there's also a coaching version too. So I use the coaching version a bunch. All my athletes are on that. We can just see how easy this is. So I was right or wrong. I do sleep with my my iPhone beside my bed and I wake up in the morning. Yeah, very, very first thing I'll do is I'll take this measurement of the HIV and that just automatically logs on to the HIV for training, I guess server and then your coach or yourself can actually look at that and he can actually get your score and yeah, you don't actually even look at what, you know, a single measure you don't usually look at like a single measure, but you looking at the trend and that measure over tolerance. Speaker 3: (37:19) And that's very useful, especially if you're under a heavy training load or stresses are getting in the way. So all the stress stuff that we were talking about before, it can be quantified using the HRV for training or at least it's on marker. Right. So that's, that's a really exciting, I mean, we use a very simple analog version, which is like a, a wellness check sheet that sort of give us people who are writing a one to 10 on the hydration, their sleep and Nagel go their stress levels, all that sort of thing. But this is a much simpler way to just get that one figure. But there is a little bit of is it isn't just saying, Oh, today it's dropped before I'm not healthy or something's going on. You do have to look at the train lines and not reading too much into any single ratings, isn't it? So when you're saying I have a three or four days, there's something going on, that's when you get more maybe it's time to back off and have a, have a bit of a recovery period before you go and see a Nick session. So that's definitely a super exciting app. I'll be downloading it today. Everybody go and grab that. That's tip tip of the white, that one. So, and this is something that's very simple that we can really measure that if we're going into over-training or Speaker 2: (38:36) Getting sick or anything that's going on inside the body, it's a very quick way of, of giving us that measurement. So that's, that's super exciting. Now I wanted to go onto your flow bottle, but we, you have designed the flow bottle, which is like a slushie. And I said to Dr. Paul before I got on the recording, I wish I'd had that in this Valley or in the sorrow when I was running. So how does this work and why is so Summa regulation is another area that you're an expert in. Tell us a little bit about that. Speaker 3: (39:12) Yeah, sure. So this has a cool story that again goes back to New Zealand. And so when I first arrived in New Zealand and I was coming from Australia, I'd just done my PhD and been a professor over in Australia, working a lot with the Australian Institute of sport. And there were a couple of hot games that we were preparing for. I think one was Atlanta, another one was Athens. And yeah. And so pre-cooling was one of my areas that I did a lot of work on figuring out how we could cool the body beforehand. And one of the first things that my, I guess the leaders at HBS and Zed said when I first arrived is, you know, do something innovative Paul and figure out, you know, make sense, be creative and make us something that we, you know, our athletes can kind of use to to win on the world stage. Speaker 3: (39:58) So, but my head, you know, put my head on and got to work and I came up with this because I knew the power of, I slushie the coolest I from my work in Australia. I said, wouldn't it be cool if we could actually use ice slushie when we're exercising? And I said, Oh, perfect, easy. We'll just we'll, let's get a water bottle and we'll, we'll put ice slushie in it. There were no water bottles at the time that would allow for the expulsion of a slushie when you were exercising. So that's when we went to the, there's this innovation project with the engineers and the university of Canterbury down in Christchurch. So we got into their program, they took it on and a bunch of fourth year engineering students made the flow bottle, which is basically a, you know, they figured out, they did all these, did various different experiments to figure out how they were going to design a bottle to be able to cause for the, the the ice to ice slushy to kind of get out of that, keep it cold. Speaker 3: (41:02) And they came up with a prototype bottle. They did an amazing job. And then a company by the name of procreates a Graham Brewster, his company out of, out of Auckland North shore. He and his team made a beautiful, what I believe is a beautiful design of a silicone version of this one. You know, a Silicon from your other nets and other sorts of gay, it's been kind of keeps it like it's solid, but it's still like you can kind of you know, push it to to laugh that slushy to come. And they made beautiful design in terms of the nozzle and, and now, now we have the, the flow bottle. Yeah, it's being used by number of different countries in the, the Olympics. You might've heard that the Tokyo games, it's just going to be absolutely in terms of the key. So it's already been used in the test event. We've seen some very great photos, New Zealand team mates using that and that's been just absolutely awesome. And and yeah, the so it's, it's, it's pretty exciting. So it's available for anyone to use and especially your listeners most to be in New Zealand can, can can access that pretty easily through, through the flip bottle website. And and actually, you know hitting up procreate for some for some bottles. Speaker 2: (42:23) Oh, got to get one. So what is the website there? So this is tip number two for the, for today's show we get asked a flow bottle from what was the essence Speaker 3: (42:33) L O E ball. So we're a bottle so and no flow. FFL OB is like a plan where it's with like a a nice slow, which is but yeah, like a nice, a nice slow like a, you know, like a, like an iceberg and stuff. And then they call like little pieces that are breaking off and hanging out there in the Arctic. The uthe flows. Yeah. So it's, yeah. Speaker 2: (42:55) Well something that they will be very beneficial in some of these hot races, especially hot long running races. How does ISIS is the last thing before we wrap up today? So I'm aware of your time. How does when you put ice in your tummy, doesn't it? I've always hated it. It's not good, you know, and we'll stop the digestion and cause trouble. Is that true or what's, what's the go there? Speaker 3: (43:19) No, it certainly wouldn't be through the cool temperatures and that can only kind of benefit. So we should actually leave with, with being very clear on the benefits and why I especially actually works from a cooling standpoint. So it works for a couple of different reasons. First of all, it's almost like reverse of the sweating process. So when we sweat and our sweat is actually a BACP rated on our skins, it's the process of the evaporation, the actual state change from a liquid to a gas elicits that energy release, heat energy us. So again, that's a, that's a very important physics kind of principle that allows us to survive in not sweating. But when you can't evaporate your sweat and not flakes, such as in places like Tokyo or Hawaii unity, what are you going to do? Well then you can't really do too much about it. Speaker 3: (44:12) You can, a little trick of course is to work the opposite phase chain and you're, you're actually going from a, the same thing happens stuff that happens on you when it's going from a solid to a liquid. So you're putting solid ice into your system and in order to melt that ice, it has to, the ice has to rotate heat, energy away from your body. And it does that in the places that matter as well. When you're ingesting it, it's cooling your neck and the carotid vessels that are going back up to your brain. And same with your essential core. So you're getting it in just the right places that you need it. And yeah, I mean all the sciences on the website, if people are interested and cleaning all of the research papers, it's well documented within the studies. Again, that's why I'm, and that's at this thing cause I was, you know, we did, we did eight years of research in a laboratory to kind of uncover a lot of this stuff works like a hot damn. Speaker 2: (45:09) Wow. Cause one of the things that we did say in death Valley or whether it was extreme temperatures was always having ice, little ice bags that we hit on our wrists and up here, a thing around here. But yeah, nobody had one of those back then. So definitely something to watch out for. Now. Dr. Paul, you have a course, a training course for any other, you know, sports and conditioning coaches out there who want to really dive deep into the top in science. Tell us a little bit about that course and about the book that goes along with that and what you are doing now and how people can reach out to you. Speaker 3: (45:46) Yeah, for sure. So I am, so my main, I guess main work is with hit science. So it's hits which is H tie it, science.com. Check it, check that out. And there's a course on there that the user can take and it'll teach you all these various different things. So for coaches, they'll find it very useful in terms of getting the prescription and you know, understanding how they can manipulate the sessions appropriately. Same with the book. So the book is published by human kinetics. It's a best seller and that's on Amazon. So again you can reach that through the hit science website as well as links on everywhere. And then otherwise, if you want to find out all the other different things that I'm doing, all my other different projects. Annette Nepal, arson.com, and I'm a, an endurance coach to many of the top endurance athletes in the world, at least in the sport of Ironman triathlon and a bunch of other different, Speaker 2: (46:49) You're an amazing coach and an amazing level at the top end of cutting edge science. I, I hope I can do that course and that in the course of the next year I've got another couple of I'm going to get through AP genetics training and a few other things, but I'd hope that I can get there because that's what helped take our athletes definitely to the next level as well. And that would be very interesting for us. So thank you for all this information today. I think there's been some real gems of wisdom for our listeners that they can take away. And yeah, everybody, you've got to do your training no matter what sport you're in. There is an application for this. If you want to find out more, if you want to dive deep into the research, get their book out of science and application or pet training by Dr. Paul Laursen and your colleague's name was Dr Michael Bucheit. Speaker 2: (47:38) So you can grab that. I'll put the the links in the show notes. Any last words, Paul, for for anyone out there or anything that you would like to say is the last message to get across? Well, my, just, my last message is that I miss miss New Zealand by the way friends and family back in New Zealand. We are a joint, so we spent enough time in there that we're actually a joint citizenship family heritage as well. And come back. We move back one day. We love, we love it there. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much Dr. Paul. Speaker 1: (48:19) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.  

In this episode, Lisa interviews one of the athletes she and Neil coach through Running Hot who has just completed his first 100 milers but Vin is not just one of their athletes but the head of the technical department in the business. In this race debrief they go deep into the mindset of what it takes to overcome injuries (a broken back) and temporary setbacks to ultimately succeed. About Vin Framularo Vin Framularo is from Trumbull, CT, USA, and has been a member of the Running Hot Coaching family for over a year.  Vin is coached as an athlete through the Running Hot Coaching program, and also excitingly helps the Running Hot Coaching team lead digital marketing initiatives. He has been a competitive runner since high school and has been ultrarunning for over 2 years. Vin recently completed his first 100-mile race at the New Hampshire Hamsterwheel Ultra Race in November of 2019.  His journey as an ultra runner and overcoming a broken back was recently featured in UltraRunning Magazine online in November 2019. Vin is the CMO & Co-Founder of The Framularo Group.  He has been in the marketing and interactive media sector for over 15 years.  Vin is an entrepreneurship graduate of Babson College and has his MBA in Management and MS in Interactive Media from Quinnipiac University.   When not leading fun marketing initiatives or running, Vin is an avid skier, snowboarder, and coach at EPIC Interval Training in Connecticut.   In 2019 Vin raised $3,976 for Vermont Adaptive Ski & Sports to benefit adaptive athletes, as part of the Vermont 100 Mile Endurance Race and Team Run 2 Empower.   He is a member of his local trail running group the CT Trailmixers, a Freemason, a member of the Sons of the American Legion in his community, and a member of Sigma Phi Epsilon alumni board. Connect with Vin at: vin@framularo.com http://instagram.com/vinframularo https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincent-framularo-1690505/ https://www.facebook.com/vinframularo   We would like to thank our sponsors   Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of Interview   Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com.   Speaker 2   00:12 Hi everyone. This is Lisa Tamati here. I'm pushing the limits. Thank you very, very much for joining me once again on our podcast. We lo ve to have you join us. And today I have a special guest all the way from Connecticut and the USA and this is a guy who has been a part of our world now for about a year and a half I think. And is actually works with us at running hot and is our VP of everything I called them. Get involved with the head of the technical department if you like. And he's the one that makes everything run smoothly in the background because Neil and I definitely don't know what the hell we're doing. So welcome to the show Vin Framularo. Vin How you going?   Speaker 3   00:54 Oh, thanks Lisa. Great, good morning. Thanks for having me and always loved talking with you every week and yeah, it's, wow. It's, you're right. Almost a little more than a year. I've been part of the running hot family and pretty excited and have been following you for a little time before that. And I'm sure we can get into that a little bit. So I'm excited to be on. I love your podcast and you know me, I'm huge on the personal development and stuff. So excited for your answer.   Speaker 2   01:23 One of the reasons I wanted to bring Vin on the show, we had a, one of our other athletes and we're going to do a few athletes over the next few months. One of our other athletes met, scrapped and from New Zealand who just did his first 100 K we, we might've been a case study out of ed of him and we did a bit of a coaching session. So we're going to do something similar today. We're going to, she it VIN story and his background and how he's just got to complete some very, very big races. So Ben came to us, well he found us on the needs as you're doing joined us, joined up, and then we actually connected over all the technical staff and we ended up getting him on board with our company. But then his has got an incredible mindset and this is what I really want to delve into today because he has, he has a relentlessly positive editor that I just cannot lay sometimes. And his mindset really, really shines through. So I want to dig in today a little bit into Vin's history and his running successes that he's head, but also how he's got the, because he's had a couple of massive obstacles to overcome on the way. So then I want you to start by telling us a little bit about you, your family, where you're from and how you got into running and what you've been doing.   Speaker 3   02:44 Sure. Thanks Lisa. Yeah, so I'm from Trumbull, Connecticut, born and raised and I've lived a lot of different places, but that's always been home base. And right now I'm talking to you in my house, which is about a mile away from my parents and where I grew up. So we have our entire family in our neck of the woods here. And I have, I'm one of five siblings, so I have an older sister and older brother and two younger twin sisters. And I think you know, I, I'm the only runner in the family and I always tease people about that cause every family needs one of us crazy endurance athletes or renters. And kind of interestingly, I got into running when I was about nine or 10 years old because basketball was my first love and big sport at the time. And I remember telling my dad, we used to go vacation up in the purchasers and I really want to improve my speed and my vertical jump for basketball.   Speaker 3   03:47 Now I'm not the tallest person, but man, I could jump jump like a kangaroo. And when I was like a young kid, I was like, okay, I want to be even better. So I, I forget how I came up with the idea. I think I saw it in a movie and I was like, dad, I need to get ankle weights and strap them to my, my feet and then I can run up and down the mountain when we go on vacation. And most parents would tell you you're crazy, you know, and especially to a nine or 10 year old, I wanted to do this and my dad was like, sure, no problem and I'll follow you in the car. So I would do this two two mile loop around the mountain with ankle Wade strapped my feet and my dad would follow me in the car and took his day.   Speaker 3   04:29 He still takes credit of not just the genetics as an athlete, but that he's strapped ankle weights on my feet and I'll tell you, that worked excellent. I got good at basketball. It helped my overall fitness and just as a young kid to take that initiative, now that I think about it, I'm like, wow, what kind of nine year old wants to be like, yeah, I want to go run two miles up the mountain with ankle weights on my feet. Especially nowadays, it's like, no, I'll probably just play video games or hang out with my friends. Right. But yeah, so that really led into, I really started to get serious about running in my high school career. I was still playing basketball and then I needed a sport to do in the fall. So I first played soccer and then spring ran track and the track coach was like, Hey, congratulations, you're going to run year round.   Speaker 3   05:25 And I'm sure a lot of runners have probably been through that and they were a Multisport athlete and I was like, wait, you mean like run for fun? Like distance and what the hell? And you know, just like most runners, I fell in love with it. And it was really at that time I learned, unlike most sports where it's like you fight for playing time or you fight for to be on a team. This was the first sport I was part of. Not only if you weren't as good, you got more playing time. So to say that it really had a direct correlation to the hard work that you put in, you get out. And I was always a really hard worker and I was, you know, went on to captain, all of my teams in high school as well as ran in college and grad school. So that was really the base of running. And then fast forward, you know, till about a year and a half ago when I found running high, I started getting into ultra running, which is ironic because I remember in college reading runner's world and having your senior buddy Dean carne ASAs on the cover of a magazine. And I'm like, man, this guy's nuts. Why would anybody want to do that?   Speaker 3   06:44 And I think at the time I had just run my first marathon and I was probably 18 years old and ran the, ran the Boston marathon just for fun and for training. And I was like, gosh, sounds terrible. Why would I be? And at the time I was so, so it's funny how life, you know, he kind of point you in certain directions and I'm very grateful. I found you guys and ultra running for a lot of reasons, but that's kind of a brief background to my story there.   Speaker 2   07:15 Yeah, right. That, that, that sort of, I can't believe you did a marathon at 18 years old. Okay. You have definitely got a nutty gene and yet that's definitely come out of late. So, and then last couple of years, so I think it was like two and a half years ago. Then you had a really bad accident that you were currently in training. Can you check, go into a, into the story a little bit?   Speaker 3   07:41 Yeah. So I've told myself after college, but after college I'm like, gosh, I'm never going to run a marathon ever again. I'll just be a weekend warrior and have fun doing some five K's and half marathons and stuff. And then it all kind of ebbs and flows. So I eventually recapped marathon and thought it'd be a great idea to sign up again for a marathon. So I signed up for the bend, Oregon marathon, and that was right around my birthday, which was in April. So I was pretty excited and I was like, I'm getting started training for it and started really get back into running shape because I went for about a year or two where, you know, my career took precedence over. I was still running but not, you know, training as much as I should be. And you know, those rest days would turn into week long rest days and stuff instead of hitting the gym when he should be.   Speaker 3   08:35 So I was snowboarding in February and I went off a mogul and landed really hard. It was super ICL. I'll never forget it was presence day weekend. It was a Monday, which was our holiday and I didn't realize at the time, but when I fell back on my back, I'm a mogul. I could barely get up and couldn't move my right leg at all. So I got, went to the mountain doctor in ER, and then when I got home, went to the ER and it turns out I broke my back. And of course, like a typical runner, I don't know. I said, you know, I just want to know, well doc, how, how long is my recovery time? Cause I have a race in nine weeks. So if my marathon was nine weeks away and he looked at me like, you don't understand, you probably won't be walking right through about a year or two and you'll, you might not ever run again.   Speaker 3   09:27 Wow. And my response to the list, I remember kind of just looking at them and go, well what if I dropped to the half marathon marathon? And the doctor just looked at me like I had two heads and says, that's not going to happen. And so I left the doctor that day and I was like, no, that's going to happen. I'm, I'm going to that race compromise. I'll do a half, but I'll be there. So I went and got a second opinion. Of course that doctor kind of said something similar and that I decided to take it into my own hands and say, no, I can heal myself. I'll do lots of stretching, lots of rehab for my back. Lots of exercises and a lot of mindsets. So I started to look into alternative therapies and it's kind of like if you want different results, you have to do something extra ordinary.   Speaker 3   10:23 I heard about this book called self-mastery through conscious autosuggestion by you know, it's from the 1920s lease and it was this author, a meal, a meal QA, and basically it's just all the power of your mind and the power of belief and saying every day in every way I'm getting better and better. And I listened to that book. I got the audio version at the time religiously for like two hours at night when I went to bed and two hours in the morning. And I did that for weeks between the rehab that I was doing, just stretching, strength training and as well as constantly feeding that belief system and my mind through that book, I was able to not just be walking back to normal, but the pain was totally gone and I was, we're not to run that half-marathon nine weeks after hurting my back.   Speaker 3   11:18 Granted it was the slowest half marathon I had ever run in my life. But it was also the most fun cause I was just so grateful to be running. And and there was also a lot of fun for me cause it was made me be really grateful for the running and my body that I always kind of took for granted. And my running career up to that point was always just about trying to hit PRS, you know? So this was really eyeopening just to be grateful to my slow time. Yeah. Was a PR for someone else and just to be able to be out there and to have something. I love that. I've been doing my pretty much my whole life be kind of almost ripped away.   Speaker 2   12:01 You Beck was damaged or wasn't so your spinal cord was obviously intact or like your, your right knee looking properly.   Speaker 3   12:08 I broke my sacrum and my L L four and L five and so those just leading all the way, it felt like all the way from my buttocks up through my, my lower back. So that was   Speaker 2   12:24 A lot of rehab as well as the mindset stuff. So you are really focused on both of those aspects for that nine weeks to get back to that.   Speaker 3   12:34 Sure, yeah. Yeah. And and now, you know, I still take that as a priority. I'd never go to my chiropractor regular really to keep taking care of that back and I'm fully heal now and you know, thankfully. But really that also taught me that,   Speaker 2   12:51 Yeah, you, you really believe that. I mean, and I, and I certainly believe this too. And that's funny that that book that you mentioned, self mastering, what does it, self-mastery,   Speaker 3   13:00 Yeah. Conscious auto suggestion or auto suggestion through self-mastery, through conscious autosuggestion science, say that self-mastery through conscious auto suggestion.   Speaker 2   13:17 Now this is really important because this was written in the 1920s, and like the science is now catching up to what was then probably very woo and not, not validated, but it was obviously a great book already. And now science is really validating. Like wait was Dr. Joe Spencer and Bruce Lipton, who I talk about constantly on the show, talking about the power of what you believe and what you put in your head. It's not just you know, you, you, when you are, you're willing something to happen and you actually influence yourselves and your, your body to heal itself. And I do think that this is a very, and this is not an easy thing to do, it's not like, well, I've just decided today to believe in this. It's going to have to really reprogram that subconscious mind, don't you? And this has helped you like moving forward from this where you like, you're really interpersonal development. It's like you're always reading everything.   Speaker 3   14:19 Yeah. I'm even rereading your book right now. Yeah. We're running hot, which is a great one. I would recommend that to anyone listening. So,   Speaker 2   14:28 And we're re-publishing that guys soon. So running hot does Stacey you know, I are editing a whole lot through that book and re re what do you call it? You're republishing it. Putting out a second edition, hopefully in time for the release of my other book, relate those which comes out in March as well. So bit of a plug there for myself. So what chapter? That one, but next to the personal development. It's really, really so important that you do the work before you need it. You actually, you've got the tools when you, when you hit a crisis side.   Speaker 3   15:03 Yeah. And you know, great example that we still, I was thinking of it recently and I just encountered right before we got on the call, I was talking about this woman I met at my, I just finished my first a hundred miler as you know, and thanks to your Neil's awesome coaching through running hot and you know, I could talk for hours about that. And yeah. And cause woman that was at my race, she was pacing a friend of mine who was an adaptive athlete visually impaired. And it was my first encounter with her and I got to see her again this weekend and she was like, man, you're so positive. And the whole time. I remember at one point you were, we're sitting around the campfire, I wasn't sitting by, just came in quick, said hi and then went back out cause it was a loop course and she goes, man, you look like you were, you could be asleep walking up, but you're still smiling and you are still, Nope, I gotta just keep moving forward and that, you know, and I, she asked me if I'm always like that and I'm like, yeah, generally I am, but you know, I take a lot of deliberate practice to work on my mindset.   Speaker 3   16:13 I'm constantly reading books. I'm constantly listening to podcasts such as yours. I remember the start of that race, someone was complaining about the weather, you know, it was 30 degrees Fahrenheit and then it got down to like 26 degrees   Speaker 2   16:28 Fahrenheit zero here. Yup.   Speaker 3   16:29 Yeah. At all. I just remember thinking, well I got to get, get away from this guy because they're not going to last. You can't go into a race like that with that kind of mindset. And sure enough, that person only lasted for about five hours in a 30 hour race because you can't look at it.   Speaker 2   16:49 You got to surround yourself with people who are positive and who believe that you can get there and, and, and avoid like the plague. Like anybody who's going to tell you you can't do something or it's all complain about everything, every five minutes because that is going to set all of your energy. So you had the, the, the way it was all at that race to go, I'm going to remove myself from here to keep myself. And it's protecting yourself, you know, that's protecting your mindset. And we need to all do this. And our daily lives protect their mindset from people who will run us through a nice size, who are negative, who tell us we can't do things like the doctor who said that you won't, you know, you know, you'd probably run it run again and you certainly won't. You're running a marathon, you know, a half marathon and I'm weak.   Speaker 2   17:38 So, so this, and this is what I've noticed with you is you have, I mean, you and I both do a hell of a lot of personal development stuff. We find a bitter out stuff. In fact, I think I'm a development junkie. But I, I still have a ways to go I think in comparison to you as far as the positivity that you bring on an absolute daily basis. Yeah. A couple of months ago, VIN was doing I think 400 monitor at the malt 100 mile race over the now I want, because this is a rice that didn't go according to plan and you'd spend a freaking long time gone hard out training, sacrificing a hell of a lot to be at this race. Can you walk us through that, that race in what happened?   Speaker 3   18:28 Sure. How you approach that. Yeah, that was exciting and I was, I was super pumped for that race. That was my first a hundred mile attempt. And going into that, you know, I'd run a handful of 50 milers and 50 Ks and I'm still a very much newbie ultra runner. But thanks to you and, and Neil, I got on that starting line. My fitness was on pointed, my mindset was on point, but it was a lease as you know, it was one of the hottest days of the year and about a decade here, back home. So in Vermont, the average temperature including in the morning and at night was about 98 degrees Fahrenheit, which I don't know the conversion of Celsius on your end, but then it got up to 115 degrees during the day. And again, and you know, and I was like, I trained for that. I, you know, based on your recommendations and made sure I trained in the sun and the heat and my family was there, so I was really excited and I was fundraising for Vermont adaptive.   Speaker 3   19:36 So I was pumped. I got bib number seven through fundraising, which is my lucky number. So I was like, approach that starting line. And I, I always make a joke, I'm like, the hardest part of a race is over once you show up for the starting line. Right. And on the hardware people. Some people look at me like I'm crazy and some people laugh, but the race is supposed to be fun for me. As long as you're like, you put in all the hard work and if you can wake up and not hit that snooze button and you know, some of these ultras start at like weird hours and once you get rid of all that pre-race anxiety, it's like boom, okay, let's go. And it was so hot that day. I experienced something I would never even expect to be a race, obstacle size, starting at really bad trench foot just from sweating into my shoes so much.   Speaker 3   20:28 And I changed my socks multiple times. I changed my shoes. You know, I put all the stuff that you're supposed to put on your feet, but it was just so hot. And I remember I got to mile 50 which was the first point I saw my family and my mom's a nurse and going into the race, I told them, Hey guys, make sure, just no matter what, tell me to keep going and you're doing great. So no negativity and my family's not negative, so I didn't have to tell them, but they're also the type. If I was like, Oh, I'm a little tired, they'd be like, Oh, we're proud. Yeah, you can sit down. Like, so I, I got to mile 50, and at that point that had been the furthest I'd ever run. And I felt great and I was holding back a lot cause it was really hot.   Speaker 3   21:15 But I knew my, my foot was getting aggravated. So I took my shoe off and I knew I needed to bandage up my foot and my mom's face just went white. She just looks, cause my foot looks so bad from the trench foot. And she was such a good sport. She didn't say anything and she was like, sweetie, I'm so proud of you and what do you want to eat? And she just, but I could tell by the look on her face as a mom and a nurse, she was like, Oh gosh. So my family bandaged me up. I had a little snack and I kept going. And you know, I felt great. The fitness was still there and everyone was like, Hey, it's your first hundred milers, especially on this course. If you could still run at mile 70 you're in good shape.   Speaker 3   22:01 Very good shape. So I got to mile 70 and I still had plenty of time for cutoffs and I was like, yeah, okay, let's see if I could still run comfortably and I could. But then the next two miles it went downhill at parts where it should have been runnable at least that was basically the mile. Before that I was like, okay, I can still run like a nine 30 mile. Which honestly I wasn't doing the whole race but I can still comfortably run that pace. Then my gate got so messed up from the trench foot and my shin got so swollen like a golf ball that I then limped a mile that should've been runnable in about 25 minutes and then the next mile took me about 34 minutes. This last one can grow, which, which is so frustrating cause all I could think was like, wow, you spent all this time and I, you know, I spent all year training and just visualizing the finish line of that race. And I started to do the math in my head. I go, okay, worst case scenario, if I just lived for the rest of the race in 25 minutes per mile or 30 minutes per mile. And that put me farther than the cutoff, which was like, you know, I did the runner math in my head, which normally I can't do math. But then it became all of a sudden you're like a math genius and you're like, that puts me out like 35 hours in 12 seconds, you know?   Speaker 3   23:24 And I remember dropping out and I told one of the volunteers and he said, man, but you still got, you've got plenty of time for the cutoffs. And I go, well that last two miles basically took me an hour. And he was like, Oh yeah. And I knew at that point it just, and if there wasn't a time cut off me, I probably would've kept calling. But I just knew I had eventually would miss some of those cutoffs. So that was hard. But I was still very proud of myself cause that was the further side ever go and run.   Speaker 2   23:55 And this is the, the the thing that got me about that story cause I mean any, you know, things can go wrong in, in a race and yes you could have carried on and just got to the the time limit and then, and then being shut down by the rice people organizers and there was a hell of a fallout on that race. So many, many people didn't finish that race would normally fell. And there's always reasons and there's always things that can happen and we can't, we cannot control all the variables. What we can control is the preparation we do, which you had done, you're done the work, done the mindset sit stuff you've done, the visualization and the it should happen. Basically you got through, what was it, 88 mile 81 or something. And then you hit, you had to pull it out of the rice.   Speaker 2   24:42 Yeah. So most people that I've worked with that would have just st them into the doldrums, like they would have been hitting the net carb once they actually got over the pain and the physical thing then comes in the a I find out I didn't make it. I sit this huge goal and the disappointment is huge cause you, you've given your heart and soul and all the time that you could have been spending with your friends and your family and or has gone to nothing apparently nothing. But you and I know that they, it's not the case with you. And I was expecting like we've got a couple of days later we go to on the, on the phone or on the, on the call and I was expecting to have to give you a really good pit talk. Call me pulling you out of the doldrums.   Speaker 3   25:27 A nice coach. Yeah.   Speaker 2   25:30 But how I did it late too, I was like, you got on the plane. Yeah, this happened. That happened. But I was still great and it was all SEM and I, and I was just like, Holy hell   Speaker 3   25:42 Yeah. You know, and I think I described it when people are like, then how's the race? And I made it to mile 72 that day and I go, Oh my gosh, it was such an Epic day. And even though I didn't hit my goal, I knew like I know going in that race for next year, like my fitness was there and I felt awesome and you know, base thanks to our training program and just mindset was there. And then I understood it and I kind of laughed a little cause I'm like, Oh, this is why all these ultra runners describe the races and like, Oh, I've had this many starts and this many finishes. And I was just laughing about just, you meet all these interesting people during the day that you're just cheering on and supporting and you might run with some people for half a mile or you might just pass them at an aid station or, you know, I shared with some, even some folks like 10 or 15 miles or even more throughout the course of the day.   Speaker 3   26:38 And it was just so emotional, like taking your whole lifetime of emotions and compressing those into one day, like all the ups and downs in the laughs and you know, and the friendships in the family. And so I think that's why I came out of it really positively. Cause I even though didn't hit my mileage goal to the finish, I still had all these awesome experiences and and a lot of us failed and we failed hard, you know, and it's like I left it all out there and really happy. It's not like I was, I finished, but like half, you know, you hadn't given it a go. They didn't give him my all. I'd definitely give them my all. And I definitely was you know, out there when I, I remember coming to the decision to stop. And I, at first I was like, Aw man, I is, cause I'm not like that.   Speaker 3   27:35 I'm not a quitter at all. But I was like, Nope, I'm good with this. I made it this and, and, and that's hard to do. You know, he's, and I was huge and the next day I took it as a sign, as the proper decision cause we were in line for lunch and I met this nice woman who had had trench foot and like kept pushing through it. And to this day she says she still has like nerve damage from it. And I just took that as a sign from like a higher being, you know? Yeah. Ava and you made the right decision so you can still come back stronger.   Speaker 2   28:08 You know, though, we gotta think about this like we're not, we're not in a war and we don't need to do permanent damage to ourselves. If we, if you were a soldier and you got three to four, you had to carry on in any option, you'll never die. We have the luxury of not being in a silly situation like that. And it's your question like Dave. And so there is no point in an ultra marathon in my opinion now as a mature person to depend on a damage and I've done permanent damage to my body. It's like paying the price or not pulling out when it should have pulled out of races and so are really convenient with like, you know, it's not about being lazy, it's not about giving yourself excuses to pull out. It's about really when it's time to pull out.   Speaker 2   28:52 And I'll tell the story from a friend of mine, Mecca who he and I were in the New Zealand thing together and we're doing 24 hour ricing and we were over in England and we worked so hard, both of us for eight years to qualify as being the national team to go with me for our champs and stuff and the Commonwealth games. And we were over in England and we were racing in two hours into the run. His leg broke like wrist fracture and a broke and he was trying to run with a broken leg, you know, because this is how strong you Monte can get to a point where you can nearly like and he actually had to be dragged off like kicking and screaming. He was not taking off and we had to really calm him down and he was so badly disappointed and he, we'd make the next five years in, in knocked it out of the ballpark and at the age of 50 was 55 when he did his best time ever of 217 Kaizen in 24 hours.   Speaker 2   29:47 Wow. He came back, you know what I mean? But the thing is he was, he was going to be running in doing real massive damage. You know, you shouldn't [inaudible]. And so the moral of the story is yet, remember this is a sport and that we don't have to do, this is not a life on the line and we shouldn't be pushing fit degree. Now when you did do this and you worked through this in your mind and you keep yourself positive, so a lot of people lose their confidence and then they're down on themselves and then everything starts to spiral downwards. And of course you've, you've absolutely naked your body. Like you've used a hole or reserves cause you've just run 72 miles. We're emotionally in a, in a, in a whirlwind anyway cause your body's naked and with you, I just didn't see any of that. I've never not seen that. I've usually seen people go down and really depressed and then it might take two weeks or it might take a year for people to sort of come back out of it. And you like, right. I remember saying to you it was the next week or something that you were like, right, we'll find another race.   Speaker 2   30:54 What's up? And I'm going, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Just let you better come up close and, and, and, and so on. You're like, I haven't done with thing. I want. Oh, another one. Yeah. You did some other rices. The theme just was last weekend. It was the weekend before.   Speaker 3   31:10 Yeah, two, two weeks ago, it seems like months ago.   Speaker 2   31:16 Did you go to us and say, right, I'm gonna do 30 hour rice and I want to hit a hundred mama. Yeah. She wanted that a hundred Mahler. And this is, so this was a course that went around around, so you pick up the story of the event.   Speaker 3   31:30 Yeah. So this was exciting. So I was excited for this one. It was again, local, this was in New Hampshire and they call it the hamster wheel race, but race directors were awesome and I was looking at different ones to pick out and I, you know, to your point, importantly, I did take my much needed rest days. I took almost like that month off and I think I have the mindset after the Vermont, I made sure I signed up for another race, but I made sure I took those rest days and caught up with friends and family and enjoyed social time and just enjoyed, you know, going to the movies. And I think that really helps you rebound too from what I went through in Vermont, at least from me because it gives you something else to look forward to. And then I also knew, I was like, okay, I don't need to go out and crush it this week cause I, I know I'm resting cause I had this other big challenge coming up. But I was excited about New Hampshire cause it was a much more runnable course and remodel, you know, obviously a lot of pills and I, I do not like power hiking. These, I am like the worst power Hager, which I've been trying to work on as an [inaudible].   Speaker 3   32:38 So I was like, yes, I'm going to go. And the weather temperature was totally the opposite of Vermont. So that was exciting. I went out this race fell feeling really good all day. I was probably like leading the race up until about mile 70 and thanks to your great advice coach you said, you know, careful the cold weather can just suck the life out of you. Man. Did it ever, especially the New Hampshire called and, but again, going back to my mindset, people are like, Oh my gosh, it's so cold. And this one had a very high dropout rate because of the cold. But instead of focusing on how cold it was, I was just running and I had just got like a, a new cheap jacket and some new gear from Amazon essentials and instead of focusing on how cold it was, I was just like, Oh man, this gear's great. I'm so glad. You know,   Speaker 2   33:30 It's hard to get a ton of gear and have everything I own.   Speaker 3   33:33 Yeah. I was like, I gotta send that Jeff Bizo as a thank you now cause this stuff is keeping me warm, you know, so, so it was really picking out those things. And you know, I went through the first 50 miles way too quick. I think I went through and about, but I felt good. I went through about eight 40 paces and I had some friends yelling at me like slow down, slow down. And I was teasing them. I go, you're not the boss of me. Like let me run my race. And sure enough, my second half of the race was much slower, but I just told myself, Nope, just keep going. It doesn't matter how fast you go. And I remember when it got made in my body tightened up really bad and really started to slow down and I always say like I, I have a quote from, it's from you, from one of your podcasts. And I, I remember telling myself, Hey, it's okay to be the tractor and not the Ferrari as, as long as I'm just moving forward one step at a time. And that, that definitely got me through with my time at that race. And then once the sun came back out, it was almost like gives you a second life and you have a little breakfast snack or something pushing through that night.   Speaker 2   34:49 There's a couple of points I wanted to bring out the so you pet your, you're still new to the, out to running game on us. So pacing is is still something that you are learning and it's, it's really hard to know like when you're feeling really great and you've done 50 miles and you're still feeling great but your pace is actually, you know, is too high, then you are going to pay the price and you can't imagine it and feel it until you've done maybe half a dozen races. And the me guy, I know, I know what's coming at more lady, so I'm gonna really take it, consumed it. And of course your tendency at the beginning, and I still did this, I just told a is to want to, I'll just get as much behind me as I possibly can and then if the wheels fall off, you know, but you actually causing the wheels to fall off, you know, but it's a, it's a really fine balancing it because even just naturally over the day you start to lose energy like we all do just in daily life. So your, your thoughts are get the most done as fast as possible in the first six hours. When it's more about the consistency and the planning of the, of the speed that you're going in. And then when it comes to cold, absolutely called I written told is way harder than heat to deal with for me personally, at least   Speaker 3   36:04 I think it is for me too. Yeah.   Speaker 2   36:06 Yeah. Cole just takes you will to live because   Speaker 3   36:09 I'll take the suntan.   Speaker 2   36:11 Yeah, it's the suction dry and makes you want to stop just moving and you just want to go to sleep. And that's, that's something that's really, really hard. So we had another couple of athletes doing a 24 hour rides here around one of the lakes here and it was freezing cold, not quite as cold as you, but was cold. And when you've been running all day, you have no glycogen left in your body and basically you're living on fat fuel and protein. Hopefully not breaking down too much muscle of your own muscle, but usually you are. So you've got no glycogens. They actually heat the body. All your reserves are gone. So even when it's hot, you can be freezing and shaking. So when it's really cold, you can be very Simic very, very quickly in a net sets. And we'll do that. So what happened then? You got through the night and then the does some, when the sunrise comes up, isn't it like a new Brie reborn?   Speaker 3   37:05 Oh yeah. And I kept telling myself to the food 0.2 weeks like what you and Neil have taught me. I just made sure I knew because it was cold or my body was burning more calories and I could tell I was much hungrier than, you know, you would be in the heat. And I just kept being like, it's okay, just keep snacking, keep snacking, keep eating, you know, follow my nutrition plan. And I had my nutrition plan laid out, but I was also supplementing that with a lot of aid station food and like real food and soups and stuff. And then I remember the last loop before the sun came up and I was almost falling asleep, like, like running, falling over. And, and I just remember going, Nope, just keep going. And my family had gone home and gone to the the hotel and I, I remember just saw myself, no, you're here to do work, just keep going. And once the daylight comes and we'll be back in the afternoon and you get to see them. So it's like I just told myself, keep going. It doesn't matter how fast keep eating and one foot in front of the other. And that really got me through and then I just kept being like thankful for packing the proper gear in the cold because I was like, Oh man, this is as people. Some people were running by me and, and like singlets and I'm like, how do you aren't a single it right.   Speaker 3   38:29 But yeah, it was,   Speaker 2   38:31 Yeah, you got to the a hundred mile.   Speaker 3   38:34 Yeah, I was pace most of the day for like, you know, at least 120 miles and I made it to the a hundred mile Mark and I still have time left in the race director said, Hey Ben, you got to keep growing. And I felt good up until I got kind of like a second wind at mile 88 and was running strong again. And but then around mile mighty six was a struggle. I think just mentally I knew I was hitting my hundred mile goal goal cause I had one minute to go and I knew it was going to happen and even if I crawled for the next four miles. So once I got to that hundred mile Mark I was like, no, I'm, I'm happy with that. Cause that was   Speaker 2   39:17 What was the goal that was, and this is an interesting point, what do you mean you put in your head is your goal. You will stop it there. So even if you like you could have carried on because you had time to carry on and go over. But in your mind you would actually sit a sit lemon of a hundred and even though, like you'd said, talked about possibly going on and doing maybe 110 or something like that, when you have that backup, go back to come to Priceline. So you have to be really, really careful about what you do as your, as your affects goal because that will be where you get to and not appealing more sort of like,   Speaker 3   39:55 And you're rightly say it absolutely was. My baseline goal was that a hundred mile and my big, I always try and set a big scary goal too. So my big scary goal was like, you know, 120 miles. But then I, my baseline was a hundred miles. But if I, if I had a baseline of a hundred K I would've stopped at a hundred K absolutely. Cause it was so cold and you're just like, but I told myself, Nope, I would, I'm here to do this and just keep it going. And I'm, I'm getting that a hundred miles ago and obviously I didn't have any serious health things like in Vermont. So I was able to continue and I felt good and honestly at points you feel you got to expect, you're going to feel like crap at multiple points in the race and not like a serious injury like your friend that broke his leg.   Speaker 3   40:43 But just knowing that you're like, Oh wow, I'm out of energy. I feel like crap. And once you're, I kind of expect it. I can recognize it, internalize it and then realize that it's going to get better. And that's really important for me because then when it does happen, I tell myself like for mile 70 to like 88 was when I say a struggle bus, Lisa, it was like a complete, but I told myself, I was like, yeah, I came to run this race until the wheels fell off and I was there to, you know, I had been training all year as you know, and I was like, yep, I expected the wheels to fall off so I expected this. So just keep going.   Speaker 2   41:27 You had prepared yourself so well and you'd sit, this next goal was a hundred mile. You wanted to join the a hundred miler club and I have to congratulate you because you know after, after that that problem that the mold that you experienced, it would be very easy to go, well, I'm not going to do anything for an exciting months. Yeah, maybe never come back again because I failed. And I know one of these sort of things that go through his mind and they're all legitimate. But the thing is, you had the resilience to get back up and just, just, what was it? I don't know, eight weeks later I would do another one was probably a little bit short for my liking or, you know, as a turn around time and I would, you know, you were ready for it. And, and I think you, you illustrate so many points that are so important then that's resilience.   Speaker 2   42:17 That's what have you set your goal out to be. That's what it becomes. You just, you learn a lot about pacing. You learn in the first race in Vermont, you learned a lot about, you know, the shit can happen regarding, you know, and you've gotta think like people, even like people are like thinking S's have races where they fail it and don't make it. You know, every ultra marathon runner has times when things go pier shade. I mean I've definitely hit enough of those. And then never, not cause you're heartbroken because you've just speak, you know, I was doing a rice in the, it wasn't even a rice, it was expedition. I know Himalayan is trying to do the world's highest marathon ever recorded a world record. And I'd spent a year and a half in preparing and I'm not good at our student. I'm not good in the cold.   Speaker 2   43:05 It's not my forte. I'm bitter and desserts. But I was with a guy who was a Mountaineer and done neighbor us and stuff and we were on entree and I get up there and after a year and a half or preparation, you know, over $50,000 of money raised from crows, the prime minister on African documentary, you know, like every, it was really big deal. And I get altitude sickness and I couldn't even start like the heartbreak and the disappointment. And this was getting towards the end of my career anyway. And it was just like freaking out, you know? And it ran off the crap out of me. But I had a couple of really good friends and my husband Haisley who just with a to pick up the pieces and it's really important that you have those people that they can channel. Come on, you've got this, we've got you. And we've got yet to blow you to pieces. When you sit big here he goes and then you fail at them. What I want you to understand is hurts, but you are someone who's pushing the limits. You're an ambitious person that's reaching for the stars and you cannot control all the variables.   Speaker 2   44:14 So if I don't think any, I just want you to wrap up. We've got to wrap up now. We've got a meeting coming up. We're going to get to our technical stuff. So we've been to get onto there, but then I just want to leave the last week to you. Tell us what you want to get across to people listening to this who are doing the first five K two who are just starting out on running. Who or who had aiming for an ultra marathon. Tell us what you want to get across.   Speaker 3   44:39 Yeah, I want to add it. This leads right to your point that you just brought up, Lisa too, that these things happen and everything happens for a reason and you're much more capable than you think you are. So you might be thinking right now it's all of those failures and those successes I think all provide a great frame of reference. So someone right now might be training for their first five K and say, Oh man, I'm struggling to break 32 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever their time goal might be. But then they might look back a year from now and be like, wow, now I'm running 25 minutes with ease. And remember when, you know, I was really struggling. So it's off frame of reference. So even those, those struggles that you go through and they really help you become a better person to kind of get the job done that you need to be, to be able to, you know, not just run these races and push the limits, but it's really a metaphor for life.   Speaker 3   45:37 Right. And I think I've learned so much from that. And at the time it might seem disappointing or it might seem difficult, but then when you look back and you're like, wow, look at the person I've become now because I've challenged myself and I've gone through those successes and pushed my limits to hit those goals and I might've hit a lot of them and I might've failed at some of them. But when you look back a year from now or even longer, it becomes like, wow, those help make me the person that I am today. And I can certainly say that for myself from my running career, you know, my business career going through like my broken back, I'd probably never would've found ultra running. I wouldn't have been introduced to you. You know? So everything really happens for a reason, to the development of who you are as a person. And if you look at it that way, I think you can be totally unstoppable with whatever you say your minds who, right?   Speaker 2   46:35 Definitely unstoppable than formulary. Yeah.   Speaker 3   46:38 Oh thanks Karen.   Speaker 2   46:41 Absolutely. Relentlessly positive. You're a real poster boy for the personal development side of things. And then if you work really hard on your mindset, you can change your own personality and you can become a stronger, better, more positive, happy person. You've certainly shown me a thing or two over the last year because, you know, like with our business side of things you know, ven really has changed their whole dynamic and the, our company because he brings a, a super amount of technical knowledge to the whole, to the whole business which we desperately needed. But he also brings when things don't go wrong, because by the same token as things go wrong and ultra marathon running, things go wrong in business. And when we, you know, we've been, you know, months preparing for a launch or months doing all of this sort of, you know, technical staff and then crickets, nobody got.   Speaker 2   47:33 And we're like, and we want to give up. And then it's like, well, no, we'll just try this other thing and we'll go down this track and we will learn, you know, he's relentlessly positive in every aspect of his life and that has been so valuable to us in our company. And is an escalate. It just really shows what you can achieve when you have this incredible mindset. So Venice, awesome. Having on the team. Thank you for sharing your, your story today with everyone from running hot. Any last things, any last words, Mike, before we get onto the actual words tonight? No, I think, you know, just what we said and I, I would encourage everyone to really at least listen to what Lisa and Neil put out and you know, I'm constantly learning from you weekly research. I really appreciate it.   Speaker 2   48:18 And yeah, just keep pushing forward team and take those wins and take those, you know, those use those losses to his growth opportunities. I mean that's a good place to stop. Thank you very much. Vin, if you want to reach out to Vin, we can, they find you on Instagram and Facebook and all that good stuff. Yeah, you can find me at Vin Framularo. So my first name, V I N and M, last name F R a M U. L. a. R. O. I'm on Facebook, Instagram. You could even email me vin@framularo.com or even reach out through running hot page and we'll put on the show notes because Vin if anybody needs help with anything technical and computers as far as things like sales funnels and click funnels and pretty much everything technical I don't really like to share you because you're too good to go. If anyone wants help, he's man. So thanks very much and we'll get onto our work now. Excellent. Thanks Steve. Have a great day.   Speaker 1   49:22 That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com   The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

In this interview Lisa Tamati speaks with Lisa Whiteman - Lisa's background is in biological health science, with a specialty in the biomechanics of human motion, and she worked in private practice sports and rehabilitation for over 20yrs. Lisa also is at the cutting edge of research related to human function and performance and is working on a new running tech device call "Run Vibe" which is set to help runners improve their performance through this biofeedback device. Both Lisa's discuss the shortcomings in the health sector, the future of health and fitness, running biomechanics and much more. Lisa is also an experienced entrepreneur who has grown start-ups, turned around failing businesses, bought and sold businesses, mentored business owners, employed staff, and worked from the coal face of health care to the boardroom of private-sector education. Developing dynamic leaders through instilling continued learning, self-awareness and self-improvement form a large part of Lisa's current role and she believes strongly in the power of communication, the power of connection; and the power of relationships, in business and in life. Lisa works with organisations and individuals to improve wellbeing and performance by distilling the science and research in ways that are meaningful and achieve positive outcomes.   You can learn more about Lisa's Podiatry Group which has 8 branches throughout NZ at www.respod.co.nz and  follow Lisa's blog at  https://thebeingproject.nz/ where Lisa discusses everything health, wellness, science and whatever is taking her interest at the moment.   We would like to thank our sponsors Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of interview     Speaker 1: (00:00) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:10) Well how everybody to tell somebody here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again with me this week. I have another fantastic guest that I've managed to meet this week. I was at a woman's conference in Wellington and I met some fantastic ladies down the, a shout out to everyone who was at the woman's leadership conference. It was an absolute awesome to be down there and to be amongst amazing ladies in one of the ladies that I got talking to afterwards is Lisa Whiteman. So welcome to the show Lisa. Thanks Lisa licensee today. Now Lisa is, I'm not even going to say what she is cause she actually got such a broad, so I'm going to hear to her a broad area of interest. And, and so many projects that she's working on that I thought would be really beneficial for my audience today to hear from these tourniquet who type on us on a few different things. So at least you're in Wellington now by trade or by profession or whatever you wanna call it. You're a podiatrist. You started your journey, but you've also gone into a number of other areas. And Lisa said, can you just give us a brief overview of what the does that you do? Speaker 3: (01:19) Sure. it's a really difficult question to answer, Lisa and I always struggle, I need a better elevator pitch around this. So, so my day to day work, my day to day role I look after an umbrella organization to support podiatry business owners, to have both successful businesses but also to drive clinical excellence in shitty expertise. So we at nationwide the group is called resonance. It's reasonably podiatry group and there's a reason why resonance comes up a lot. And and a number of my, my brands, CF, so I manage businesses and I manage clinical outcomes. And that's my day to day. Okay. As a segue from that, I also do quite a bit of work in leadership and development in other sectors. Areas is diverse as the music industry. So I've worked with musician and purposeness. And another business I work with and the Bay of plenty is around positive reinforcement training for horses. Speaker 3: (02:30) Well, it's a different way. So this is another, another business and quite a unique and a unique skill set. So I work on businesses, I work in leadership and I have a passion for noticing life and I like to notice with intent. Yeah. I don't want to live life just going through the motions. So noticing has brought me to have a blog and it's called the being project. And my blog there is just a talk about stuff. It is the versus, you know, pressure or stress or pain or relationships or communication. The only areas, I mean, I guess, yeah, it is. It's about, I'm challenging myself to intentfully live my life every single day. Does that make sense? Speaker 2: (03:26) Yeah, absolutely. And in whatever area you're interested in, that's where you go down the rabbit hole on that area. Speaker 3: (03:32) And generally, Lisa, it's the things that pop out of a conversation. So you can guarantee you watch my blog over the next week or two. Yep. Our conversation. Well yeah, because you will spark a need for me to write something Speaker 2: (03:47) That's, that's been fantastic. And in laser and I both, we've, we've just been talking before we got on this recording, we're internal students and we're always looking for what is the latest and, and newest in the app with the science. And Lisa has also a biomechanic she's got some other stuff that she's going to add in too. You just got a charity as well. But let's talk a little bit about your bio mechanics side of things because obviously a lot of the people that listen to my show runners so tell us a little bit about, you buy a mechanic background and what you do there. Speaker 3: (04:20) So as a, as a podiatrist, obviously we're interested in gate, so can gate running gate. And I found I had a, I've always off physics, so the physics of motion and leavers. And so it was a natural place for me to specialize in, gravitate through my clinical Korea. So rehabbing runners from injury on one side and then more recently looking at how we can improve performance in runners. So esteemed the so that they can achieve the goals that they want without them being broken. Cause you know, the running statistics are huge. We're going to have 80% of our run as in any 12 months I'd go into heaven running injury. Yeah. So how do we navigate through those things? So I spend a lot of talks being too, a lot of time learning both bio mechanics function can emetics kinetics, you know, how we run, how we move and then the science of injury. So but looking at the fact that not only are we addictable from a neurology perspective or neuroplastic, we're also bioplastic out tissues have the ability to read, generate, and to get stronger. It's how we find they, for an athlete, that sweet spot, we are getting stronger, but before they're going to break. Yeah. So I'm fascinated and that area of potential Speaker 2: (05:46) It's, and that's for us to, as coaches is a really fine line between over training and your athletes breaking down and optimal performance. Exactly. Speaker 3: (05:58) And it's a really, so you've got a can we talk about the, the, the, the tone if you like, of that you were working on the running bribe. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Just this is something that's cutting edge and new people. So it's coming, it's not yet on the market, but this is what's coming. I've been, I've been working for the last five years, becoming up five years on a project review, research and development about looking at whether we can pick out markers in someone's running gait. So specific metrics in the running gate that put together can give us a really accurate indication of the performance. So that's the power that producing and the efficiency at boundary shifts in body forward. So that's what I've been working on. And we've gone through pilots. Speaker 3: (06:51) We've done pilot done trials and pilots studies and we have a patient we've done a patient and our next step is to go to commercialization. So it's something the goal was, is a lot of complicated metrics out in the Elisa. And the really had to understand, and I really hot right as it is, is great. It's nice and simple. We can understand that you start adding layers and layers and layers to that. It can be overwhelming for the athlete. So every girl was something really, some people that looked at the ability for you to take your body and efficiently move it forward. Yep. And not so, so we're talking about your gait and your, so your, your Tommy, your feet on the ground, your ground resistance, your cadence, not when, what we're not talking about is those specific pieces of form. Speaker 3: (07:47) So what we know is that the metrics that we put weight that we gained from the sensor, we can alter those by things like increasing Hep extinction or increasing the affliction. So what we wanted, and I guess I often call it, we want the best, the most bang for our buck. Meaning we want one number that to alter it or to improve it, he'll base in three simple changes that you'll need to make. So it could be increased cadence. It could be a little bit more high steeper purge. It could be a little bit more hip extinction. It could be a little bit of a tweak to the position of the pelvis. But rather than having to measure those things, measuring the output of those things, one metric which is life a lot easier and simpler. So you know, as running coaches, we're obviously very interested in this because it's very hard to, we have a set of rules that we all take, you know, in regards to bio mechanics, mechanics and what what constitutes and this changes obviously, because don't getting your research Speaker 2: (08:56) All the time, as you will know. So we can generally say that, you know high cadence as a, as a beta wide run and we don't want to be planting our legs in the ground. And we want to keep our hips stable and things like this. But this is going beyond that, the mechanics of that and looking at this one metric which will tell you whether you're approving the force forward or not. Speaker 3: (09:19) Yup. Exactly that. So rather than the, so for you, you'd probably still do that stuff. Yeah. But you do it exactly that we know these things. We know that cadence is important. We know ground contact time is important. What we want to achieve is that runners out there practicing this new technique that you may have guided them through and they want immediate instant feedback that they are achieving that step-by-step-by-step and that's our goal. We know that gait and this is on the science. We know that gait retraining is definitely doable. Yeah. We know that gate retraining takes a minimum of 12 weeks and then it has to be continuously churned until it becomes muscle memory. So I would team decide to my X lights. It's going to take you a year to be able to confidently say you've altered your gait in a month. That, imagine if you had feedback that you were on task and your training runs, you knew that you could hold it for five K but you can't hold it for team. What do we need to do in the gym to improve your, you capacitate to that, that load. Yeah. He know how you're going. So that's what we're, we're that's what we're working on. That's very exciting. And talking about it. I get re invigorated. Speaker 2: (10:41) Yeah. I hate [inaudible] and it's a long process to get something like this to market. So then ultra-marathon in itself. But this is coming in. So people watch out for this in the, in the, in the hopefully near future. What is now you've got podiatrists all through the country in some of those do video gait analysis or do they do all, do live gait analysis in the businesses? Can we, so Speaker 3: (11:12) With so with the reason it's group, we have, everyone does video, gait analysis analysis the ones that specialize more in that running a running analysis or it could even be running for other sport. So we see, you know, a lot of the footballers love rugby. Or the netball is, we use three different forms of gait analysis. One we do mobile motion capture, so that's using a mobile, a HD camera and it can be on the field, on the court. So you're looking at, you might be looking at landing skills or you might be looking at type of skills or it may be a particular thing you want to assist, not just running. And then we do dual camera today. Video capture using treadmill. So we've got two cameras, one at the back when it's side. So we're doing that and there's a really good Bella to tape between or correlation between running on the road and running on a treadmill. So the difference in kinematics is very, very minor. We know the science of that, so things that works well and the food that we do, which is unique for new Zealanders. We do three D, I'm both running and walking Gates. So we use a three D capture camera yup. That plots all the points, creates an avatar and looks at what's loading correctly, what's not loading correctly. So that's really unique and we're the only clinics in the country to be using three D motion capture. Speaker 2: (12:41) I will be able to [inaudible] we can talk afterwards about hooking us up with it so that we can talk to, I mean we do, we just about to which video analysis, like online, but the analysis, but head's got its limitations. You know, we can look at the big areas of change that we can improve upon, but it's not looking three D it's not, you know, doing the stuff that you were doing. So perhaps we can workout something after this conversation or I at least the ones in New Zealand. Now let's change tech a bit, a little bit. So you've got a, obviously a very big science background and by mechanics you've also got a charity that you're involved in that is, tell us a little bit about that one. Speaker 3: (13:24) So today's future is the name of the charity and today's future is an education based charity to support and facilitate a pathway a learning pathway through gifted in neuro diverse young people. So we've particularly focusing on young people between the ages of 14 and 24. And we know that those are critical. If you don't fit, if you don't fit into society or you feel you don't fit into school, which is a big thing. And you might struggle with relationships. This is the time we have, we see a rise in anxiety and depression and really concerning and often these young people, these young adults are functioning, are really high level academically. Yeah. Don't have a peer group to relate to. They often don't relate well to be a thorough in their own peer group. And we find a lot of them will shut down. Speaker 3: (14:23) So we lose this potential for the future. And I have a strong belief that it's our kids have now that hold the case to LC mutual survival. So what today's future wants to do is to nurture these kids through into adult hood. So we have openly lifelong learners who have the courage and it's mental fortitude, laser, the stuff you work on day in and day. I mean to fortitude, to be able to face whatever the future is to throw at us in this planet. It's small, it's growing. And we have resource issues like every other small business organization. We just want to try and make a difference. Speaker 2: (15:09) Trauma can definitely lead to individual kids' lives. So, you know, so these are some of the gifted kids but who have maybe a certain learning difficulties or difficulties fitting in with the groups in your peer groups than in some sort of social difficulties. So that's a really good thing. So you've got a very, very diverse background and I know we were talking earlier about your life as well and you've got a very diverse background. You've had a brain injury, so we can make that. I have a brain injury and talking about rehabilitation, you know, we obviously I used to hit my story with mum. Do you want to share like your insights on, on your journey with them? Speaker 3: (15:50) Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm happy to and I'm reasonably new as well in, in, in this journey. So I three years ago I unfortunately fell off my horse, which wasn't ideal and broke my back. So I broke 'em T 12, L one and L two. And I did what's called a retropulsion burst fracture of T 12, which is where the part of the, the fracture ends up in the spinal cavity, in the spinal column. Wow. You don't need the spinal nerves. And it was really unfortunate in amongst all of that, I hit the Dick with my head and it's team relay. People recover really well from a single episode head injury. So I was unconscious for a very short period of time. I was a really low risk patient. The thing that no one asked is, have you had a head injury before? This was my food. He didn't drink. Now you would know from probably your research that that puts me in a completely different camp. I should've been looked after quite differently than I was. So I was sent home from hospital after a week and a spinal brace from my chin to my butt and I was a net for 16 weeks. I didn't have surgery because I chose not to. Yup. And my Beck's pretty damn good. As long as I say strong and my cool Lisa. Speaker 2: (17:15) Exactly. Yes. Thanks. So did you hear that everybody, if you've got a bad back, you need to have a strong core that's at the end. Don't necessarily yet jump into the operation side of it so quickly. Speaker 3: (17:30) Well, it's interesting because again, coming from, I'm just a little secret here. Coming from the sports medicine, the Australasian sports medicine and science conference, he was significant. Talk about don't operate. Yeah. Avoid and not just a spinal arthritis, knee arthritis foot. The pain that we are experiencing. I have a passion for pain science. The pain that we experience is not due to tissue damage. The pain we experience is due to the perception of our central nervous system around how safe we are or not. So pain is our response to a feeling of not being safe. And it can be heightened by fear. Fear heightens pain. The longer you've had pain, the least it is linked to tissue. Speaker 2: (18:26) Wow. So the chronic pain is actually it's a more of a a side. Yup. Yup, Speaker 3: (18:34) Yep. It's more, and I'm in around belief systems. So if somebody takes the pain to the body part, like I broke my back, I have back pain. If I believe that I'll continue to have pain. Yup. I understand that actually my back's fine and I'm strong. Then my pain will reduce and I have to tell you this way story. So what they did, and this is on the research, what they did is they used VR. So part of the hip seat on and head. Somebody look at themselves with this really strong back to broad shot, beautifully muscles. So it was their bag that was their body, but it was, it was strong Apple. And they asked them to do stuff and they did what they were asked to do with the strong back. Then they gave them this really weeding Bodie week hunch, looking back in, ask them to repeat the same tasks. They couldn't, they couldn't lift the weight. They didn't have the mobility, they were stiffer. This is how much the mind, the crux of everything we do, Speaker 2: (19:41) Of everything we do. And when we, when we diagnose and when we get a label and we have a back injury and we think with powerless to do anything. Have you heard of the work of dr Joe Dispenza? How? Okay, so he's amazing. I mean, he healed his own back through visualization. I'm talking about, I don't know how many weeks was that? 16 weeks or something. And now he teaches about the belief. Have you also heard about Dr. Bruce Lipton? Really everything of his biology of belief. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm all over there and you're by phone and say why I tips. So people basically what, what these two doctors, dr Joe Dispenza, who I highly recommend you go and search out, Dr. Bruce Lipton, who I've mentioned a couple of times on this podcast, and looking at the biology of belief. So what did you believe in? You put in your mind carries through into your body in a fix your actual physical body. And this is why it's so important that we're not telling ourselves we're going to be sick. We are weak. We have this repeatedly and over and over again. Because you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy basically. Speaker 3: (20:46) Exactly. And when we're talking Speaker 2: (20:48) About that it does, it hit and the mind filters through the body. It changes not just the, that, the structure that we think of like our bones and our muscles. It changes the structure of every single cell. No, it's down to the, it's down to more Kyla. And I think that that's the most mind blowing thing with Joe's work. The whole thing around VI visualization gain and the, this is wonderful. It's coming in through the science. The reels, the idea that's coming into college, they talk about the visualization is priming the brain for success. Yup. It's critical. It's a critical way of reducing the pain. People are in this critical for performance. Totally. I mean, I've, I've preached this for a long time as an athlete preparing for big races. That visualization is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle. I had a, a guy actually was on my podcast last week, met script and who, who a few weeks before the event had an injury and he was training for a hundred K and it was in a very bad space mentally at any, you know, Sydney walls reached out for help. Speaker 2: (21:58) And I didn't spend time working on his injury, his fault. You know, Neil dealt with it for business. We could, but he wasn't going to be able to train much up until we had been. And he was going to have to go in blind and, and the train to say. So we spent the time concentrating on his mentality and the way he approached it and strengthening his mind and the, the just, you know, within 48 hours, the shift that his mindset was huge. And suffice to say he went on and even though he hadn't been able to try and hit a fantastic race, not that out of the ballpark because he went in with a strong mindset because you went in with the belief that he could do it rather than going in, which is what we all tend to do. I've had an injury, things haven't gone to plan, therefore I'm not going to be able to do it and leave it home standing on the start line. I don't believe I can actually do it. And of course you're right. You believe as Henry Ford saying, I believe you can or you can't, then you're right. Speaker 3: (22:54) Okay. And this is why we put so much. And you know, my husband's a does iron man and triathlon and if you look at that lead up, they do the lead up, they do the big, big, big training days and then weeks and then they have the rest week. And then what does everyone do? I miss drop into nutrition stuff here, Lisa. They all go out and have pasta party. It's terrible. I just don't know how in this day and age, when we know so much about nutrition, is it that it's almost like it's so instilled in a bit in our culture, even if it makes no sense in the science, Speaker 2: (23:33) But used to make seeds so that yeah, we used to think load up with carbs. You know, you blockage on the spot cause up to the top, but you loading it with shit, carbs and probably stuff that you wouldn't normally, so then you'd double distressing your body. And then you're overloading it. So we don't get out our athletes at all to carb low. We, we want them to be on good, healthy nutrition and it depends and we work on the epigenetic side of it. If they do that, that program, if we can fit knowledge available and then we get them just to eat a little bit more and hydrate a little bit more in dry sleeper. That'll get more in the preparation and focus on the meditation. Focus on the breathing techniques, lowering the stress levels low, which CLIA, Speaker 3: (24:17) And that all lowers the inflammation, right? Speaker 2: (24:20) No, only the, the this, this whole mind, body connection, the home, you know, it's not just nutrition, it's not just meditation, it's not just training, it's this combined multipronged approach that really leads to ultimate success and long longevity in the sport as well. Speaker 3: (24:37) And even if we take that out of the sport, and I guess where I started that my, my big goal, my, my, my daily approach to life is, is I'm noticing stuff, noticing everything with intent and if we stop going through life half asleep, as most of us do, you know, statistics or die or we've got 85% of people hate their job based on a 2018 Gallup Gallup poll on average. It's, what is it, a 5.2 hours per day watching telly and four hours on social media as the average. Wow. You go to work for eight hours hating what you do, you traveled there and back. You spend the next nine hours either on social or watching television, you have to eat and sleep. That's a lot. That becomes a life. Yeah. And I think that our approach to our, I'm hoping repo if we can approach how we're running our life and the same way with the same intent fullness as we approach our running isn't going to get better. Speaker 2: (25:41) Yes. Yeah. And, and this is again going back to dr Joan in the leptin, they talk about the power of the subconscious mind that it's, you know, runs 95% of our day up to 99%. In other words, we're running on autopilot. You know, when you're driving home and you're listening to music and singing, you actually doing the singing, maybe consciously, but you're driving it subconsciously and you know, it's great because it means we can do things automatic and it's easier. We don't have to overthink it. And when we're training in developing a ritual, that's why it's hard at the beginning to develop a habit because we haven't got those groups in their brain where it's all subconsciously run. By the same token, they, that subconscious controls our behavior to a degree that we not aware of where their behaviors come from. So we've got this programming that we've had since childhood usually, or something that's happened traumatically and it's got into our programming. Speaker 2: (26:38) You're useless. You're not able to run your, to, you're always fed you or whatever it is. You can't speak, you're, you know, you're not, you're not going to be good at this. Whatever that programming was at that time, that's now sitting in your subconscious and you can read all the personal development books you want and you can consciously try and work on this. But if the subconscious program is running its own ship, you're fighting against David versus Goliath. It's such a powerful force. And this is why going in doing the meditation, doing self hypnosis, doing the co, you know, definitely doing the conscious exercises as well, the affirmations and the visualization and all that sort of stuff. But trying to go in and not let it subconscious just run, ride on its own without any, I'm doing that thought again that I don't want to do. You know, and I'm, I'm constantly working on my own sets of behavior. You know, I get very I've got a team Pat and I get really angry and frustrated at the computer mostly. And now I'm trying and a lot saying I'm perfect and [inaudible] straight to the main donation. When I feel that frustration and they want to Chuck it out the window, I'm damaging myself. When I'm feeling that stress, I'm damaging myself. So I try and get up and like try and leave it for five. Yup. Speaker 3: (27:57) And I think one of the really important things via, and we know it's critical and again, it's in the science we had designed, we must move on. I'm reading a fascinating book. The name is escaping me, but we can talk about it another time. Which looks at the connection between us becoming bipedal is never walking on two legs as organisms as opposed to being on four. And the connection between that and our consciousness developing and our cognitive development and the talking about how it's in so much science. If you, if you go and Google movement movement as medicine, we have to move. So when you get frustrated with your computer, nothing to do with the computer. But I beat show at least some of it as a smidgen that listen, Speaker 2: (28:47) Yes, a deadly. And I don't think it's just me, although I'm probably an extreme case of counselors though. But I, we know, and this is when I, something I miss now that I'm not doing the long distance running for example. And my, my business partner and coach Neil wakes up, pointed out this to me one day. He said, I see I'm really frustrated at the moment. I'm feeling really down and you know, and I've got all these tools to deal with it. The, where's it coming from? He said, we used to have hours running and that was time for your brain to sort stuff out and meditate it away and you are in motion all the time. And it gave you just your, your brain time to process everything. You don't have that now you're going from one, you know, computer job to another computer job to another computer job to working with mum to, you know, and it's just don't have that it's face in that time. Speaker 3: (29:42) It does. So it's, so movement is, it's, it's great for mental health. It's also exceptionally good for creativity. So we are creative brain finding novel solutions, novel outcomes, problem solving in our life happens far better when we're moving than when we're still, the book is called perfect motion [inaudible] motion. It's, it's very good. And it comes from a very strong science and you know, historical and scientific basis. It's very, very good. So movement is key. Movement is medicine movement and when we're injured, can I just jump back to X some and whether it's escalates or, yup, my injuries, whatever. Movement is the only way to rehabilitate. In the old days. If you sprained your ankle, you tweaked to knee. What did they do? Mobilized. You stop being active and mobilizing does not do anything to heal tissues, tissues here with movement. Now, sometimes we might put a patient in a moon boat, but we're putting them in the moment so they can keep emulating, keep moving, keep walking. And they will give them some limited exercises to start that strengthening happening or rehabilitation happening. But to risk something that cause it sore is the worst thing you could possibly do. Speaker 2: (31:12) Yeah. Now this is a really know this is an interesting and dangerous piece of knock off. Got the opposite problem. Like selfishly I'll ask you a question. I've got an injury with plantar fasciitis and I keep running and I do all the foam rolling and the foot release and the sayings and the what's the waivers and you know, then they help. But I keep running cause they can't stop run it cause I'm addicted to them up to, to training. Is that bad in which zone? Like, or is this a good thing and I'm, it's okay to keep, I mean, pushing, in other words, pushing through injuries, running, it's Speaker 3: (31:52) Through injuries. Well, it depends, doesn't it? It depends on is this, this, this safe, that safety buffer between your self protecting. So therefore you're not, you, you don't, you could actually do a little bit more. You're not going to break these, that safety barrier. And then at the top is the point that you're going to break. Now if you it decide to keep on going to the point of breaking, it's not gonna turn out well for you. Yeah. So that's knowing where you are in the middle of that. So I'd be asking you a few questions now. Plantar heel pain, we call it chronic plantar heel pain these days or chronic plantar heel pain syndrome. We don't use plantar fasciitis anymore because firstly itis means and there was no inflammation to be found of the plantar fascia. Right? So we've changed the same with like Achilles tendinitis gone. Speaker 3: (32:50) It's, it's Achilles tendinopathy cause there is no inflammation. So anyway, those just changes in our medical world. So it's the most caught heel pain. Chronic plantar heel pain is the most common injury that we see at any one time with 15% of the adult population suffering from it. At any one time. So the things, the questions that I would be asking you with these things, like have you got first stick pain in the morning when you first get out of bed, how many steps does it take for that pain to reduce or probably four minutes and five minutes of walking around the Hills. Yup. And then it reduces right down again. That's right. And then it's, if you sit at your computer and get up, does it feel erupt again? Yes, it does. It does. And if you go for a run, does it get worse? No, I can cope with it. That's the dangerous thing. Of course, when I'm warmed up Speaker 2: (33:45) I can, I don't feel it as bad. And so I think I'm lots of add. So I keep training and then again, the next morning I wake up again. I'm a negative. Speaker 3: (33:53) Okay. What do you wear on your feet during the day at home? I'm just at home. Right usually. Yup. So the first thing, listening to your story, and I haven't examined, you know, because I'm not sitting with you. First thing I would do would be to suggest we changed that one sector that you have. And I probably suggest something, I don't want to do a brand push here, but something like a also heel gender or something like that that has a contoured sole and a slightly flicker field to forefoot and that you don't do anything, be a foot. Okay. So it's a bit like Speaker 2: (34:30) Kelly's really we shouldn't if you've got an Achilles' don't run around before. Speaker 3: (34:34) Yeah cause the Kellys the interesting thing is there was the Achilles in the plant, that plant of first year runs from the heel to your toes underneath your foot and the Achilles that runs from your calf to your heel to function together. Yes. It's like a cradling. Yup. Right. So you should be doing your calf work. Yeah. Heel pain. So that's good. Yup. So all I want to do is change the forces on that bitch. That fascia. Yup. Alter those forces at the points that you normally in pain. Let's see what it does to your pain. Remembering that pain and tissue damage and not always exactly correlated. So I'd start with that one thing only and changing. Now I've got a free tip. Thanks for that. Yeah. And like you said, you posted was the science is changing all Speaker 2: (35:24) The time. Like we've been teaching, you know certain things play into the shadows and we all know that that does take a while to heal. It does take its time. But it's a pain in the ass, you know, and there's so many. We try and avoid injury obviously as much as we can. So and it's one of the most common things that we see coming up and he began to gain. So I'll try that. I will not go around bare feet anymore or actually at least put some shoes on when I'm at just walking around the house even. No, no, no. That works for the Achilles cause you know, when you in, when people are going from a cushioned shoe to a zero drop show, that's when we often see athletes get problems as well. Speaker 3: (36:08) Again, they can adapt. It's balancing out in that comfort and that little safety zone. Yes, we're, we're, how am I going to build the tolerance to new load without breaking them? And that is the challenge of every trainer out there. Speaker 2: (36:23) Yup. This is under training. We did talk briefly, we'll have to wrap up in a minute, but the buyer plasticity thing, we were talking before we got on this call recording about the fact that different people have abilities to withstand different amounts of pain in regards to whether the body with the dead individual thinks hurting themselves or not. And I said to you, I know that in my life, in through lots and lots and lots of training, I could get to a point where I nearly killed myself a few times because I would ignore my body's signs and signals to the point of, of stupidness looking bag. But, and, and I seek you by the same token, now that I'm haven't been doing super long stuff for a couple of years, that horizon of variability to go and push out to that level is also gone. But you reconnect via plasticity. Once you've got it, you have it will come back quicker. Speaker 3: (37:20) It w and, and the science is telling us, and this is recent, this is from last week's conference. The science is telling us that if we get young people active and moving and resilient and building tissues when they're younger, even if they spend, you know, 10 years sedentary and don't do anything, their ability to return to that is fun. It's easier and faster than someone who's never done that when, when they were younger. So we're starting from scratch. So Bioplast as a T is around the fact that our tissues are strong, we have huge ability. And one of the things I found fascinating we were talking about the league bone, the tibia. This was at the conference, the tibia, all the a runner. This is a hockey player and this is the thing that your guys may find really interesting. So bones, a deck with load. Speaker 3: (38:16) We all know that, right? So the more you load, and we know that people who run have higher bone density than people that are seen in tree. Okay. What I didn't know and I learned last week is that if we look at the shape, if we do a cross section of a tibia of a runner, the tibia will be from to back elongated. So it'll be long front to back and quite narrow. Yup. If you do the same thing with a hockey player, so cross section of a hockey players tibia, it will be the bone. This is the bone. The bone will be wider. Wow. As well as long. So what that suggests that the, and this is what they were talking about is that multidirectional exercise, stop, stop, push forward site. Yup. That is dynamic and high frequency is the best protection from, from bone injuries and bone injuries. Speaker 3: (39:17) Decreases the risk of stress fractures is one of them. Now you've talked about having heel pain. The other biggie in our runners is what we call medial tibial stress syndrome. Shin splints. Yup. Okay. Part of that is quite possibly because we're not doing enough multi directional work to build that within the bone would be going in one direction. So that was brand new to me. Thanks to sports medicine Australasia conference. So movement variability the question they asked of us to ask about our patients or about in your case, the people that you're training, can you do the same thing in different ways? So I try and avoid that. This is where we talk about mix up your shows. I talk about in my work with different shows and run on different terrains. Wow. It's awesome as well as cross training. So this is a model that is much more than this. Speaker 2: (40:13) There's some real deems eye for us to take away and I'll, what I'll do is I'll get you back on laser and we will go but more of a deep dive and the next time that we do this all those chips and injury prevention side of it if you wouldn't mind you're gonna yeah, we're going to have to wrap it up for the day, Lisa. But you have been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much. Now I'm going to link in the show notes to your group, your website. I'm also your charity. And where can people find you on like Facebook or Instagram and that type of thing lists. Speaker 3: (40:45) If it's around the bio mechanical side. So just find me through business but I a tree, that's that, that's the easiest way to find me there. And otherwise probably the links that you gotta use the being project as well, there is ways to hook up with me through that as well. Speaker 2: (41:03) Awesome. No, you're fantastic when they said thank you very much for being on the show today. We really appreciate all your insights and your enthusiasm for this topic and I'm cheering the latest and science and watch out for that. What does it running vibe, run vibe, run vibe, run vibe. Watch out for that in the future guys. And I'm checking it out when it comes on the market. Speaker 3: (41:23) Thanks Lisa. Speaker 1: (41:25) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com   The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

Emily Miazga is a 3 x winner of the  Coast to Coast World multisport champion she is also a clinical nutritionist and found of "Em's Power Cookies" - a range of nutritious and delicious  Cookies, Bars, Power Bites, they also sell Hemp Protein Cookies! In this episode Canadian born Emily shares how she got into multisport and just what it took to win the coveted Coast to Coast race three times and what she learnt about herself along the way. How she used her insights as an athlete to help power her business dreams and what life after competitive sport looks like. She shares her philosphies on pushing through sporting and life obstacles and how she managed to keep her mind on track during the toughest of her races.   We would like to thank our sponsors Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.   All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.   www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel  www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group   www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff. Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with! No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home Find out more about our  Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com    Transcript of interview  Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by www.lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits is fantastic to have you all back again. I'm super excited to have you. And today we have a very special guests. I have Emily Miazga and if you don't know who Emily is, you probably know who famous cookies, which are IMS power cockies. So I'm sure a lot of you are going, Oh yes, I know in South of his well him is now two based on pushing the limits. Welcome to the show, Emily, how are you? Speaker 3: (00:39) Hi Lisa. I'm really good. Thanks for having me on. It's, it's a real pleasure. Speaker 2: (00:43) Well that's, it's super exciting to have you on. We actually had a case sorry, a fan of the show, write to me and say, can you please have Emily on? And she's so evoke and I want to hear her talk. So I reached out to Emily and who we are today. Speaker 3: (01:00) Awesome. Thankfully I'm too for that. It's very cool. And we finally got gotten here, so now it's very, very cool. I love it when a good plan comes together. Speaker 2: (01:08) Took us about three months, but we did get there. Speaker 3: (01:11) Absolutely. Speaker 2: (01:13) Now Emily is a Canadian born but she's living in New Zealand and Emily is famous for her Em's cookie. So let's go there for a stylist. Before we get into your athletic career, you've been an amazing athlete, but you have cookies. What are the, what are these about? Speaker 3: (01:30) Oh my cookies. I should've had one here with me. I'll have to run, get some kitchen. But my, my power cookies, it's quite funny. I had been making them since I was a little kid growing up in Canada because in Canada we just love, you know, it's like cookies are really the thing to do. And I was a sporty kid, I was always running and I was always into nutrition as well. Like I ended up studying dietetics and became a dietician. But when I came to New Zealand I was, I was traveling and I ended up here for coast to coast. And I, what I do, this is just kind of how I roll. As I would stay at friends houses and I'd make them buy power cookies as it, as a thank you or give them to the guys at the bike shop, the bribing them, you know what I mean? Speaker 3: (02:12) Like it always works a treat. And in the faculty I lied. I had always wanted to start my own business and I didn't, I decided I wanted to stay in New Zealand. I didn't want to go back to work in a clinical dietetics setting. So I actually brought power cookies to Robin Jenkins, the director, the creator of the coast to coast and wow. Yeah. So after my first coast to coast in 2004, I went and saw Johnny and I brought him cookies and I'm like, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a business and selling these cookies because you know, everyone like always said they're so good and I should sell them. So, so I, I basically just started the business and it's, it's a nice, I always loved giving them to people and to share them with people. And so that was like a real behind wanting to do it. Plus of course, you know, having my own business and doing my own thing because the products, they just, they really, they just really work. And so what, what the actual power cookies are, is they're just made from ingredients that, you know, you'd probably find in most pantries, you know, typical bloody fine ringing in the background. Oh, I probably should. I should probably put mine on airplane mode while while we're here. Just ignore it, carry off. Speaker 3: (03:32) But they just have like, like rolled oats as the base ingredients drive through. It's real dark chocolate bit of Brown sugar a and rice syrup, peanut butter in a peanut chocolate farm. But just naturally, I think the reason why they work so well is because they're yummy. They taste really good and they're really and digest and they just don't, especially when you're racing or doing something hard, they just don't upset yourself. And I think it's because like, I don't use component chocolates. I don't use processed oils. There's no Palm oil. I don't add all these protein powders, like soy protein isolate. And you know, whey protein it of ISO. So, you know, go into that a little bit. So I saw it like, no, we all read that on the packet means not much to math. Why is they the bad thing? I just don't think, and this is just my sort of anecdotal feeling I guess. Speaker 3: (04:29) I, you know, it's, it's not, you know, a real like dietetic thing, but I just think your, your body when it's under the pump it up just can't digest those types of foods. They're not real foods cause that processed in a way that it's, yeah, it's processed and it's concentrated. It's kind of like when people try to race and they just try to only consume gel. Oh terrible. Yeah. I know like gels have their place. Like if you're, if you, if you need them in an emergency or like for example, in the coast to coast mountain run, I use gels because they're convenient. They work for that specific purpose. But to fuel a whole iron man or a whole ultra or whatever on just gels, you're just going to end up with majors. Yeah. Because it's just really hard on your gut to digest it. Speaker 3: (05:17) So that's where having real food I think works works a lot better. And so that's the main difference between my products and your sort of commercially available nutrition bars. Like they'll look good on paper nutritionally. But for me, I guess I'm a dietician and as a foodie, sure it's got to look good on paper, but it also has to taste good. It also has to be digestible and it has to give, it has to fulfill the intended purpose. And so with M's, the intended purpose is to give them a really nice sustained energy. And this is really, really important because yeah, a lot of things look good on paper or they don't, you know, have this or that. I mean, I've had some really bad experiences gels and in Speaker 2: (05:58) A lot of our athletes that running hot have, have come unstuck with gels and the in I, yeah, stay away from the completely, or if you're running something like a teenK or even a half marathon, you can get away with it. But if I was that we as soon as your guys' use of track is going to be struggling because all the blood is out of the muscles, I'm going to go for a little bit longer that just not, but yeah, there was some new ones on the market that I haven't tasted and that, that are meeting the new formulations and so on. But even, even ones that are fruit based, I find that they go very acidic and your tummy and served, at least for my stomach,uduring,uduring your vendors is a no go. So food is something that I'm quite passionate about getting white athletes to adopt to and in food. It tastes good. So really good too. We will have to talk a little bit about getting some Eames cookies for our athletes to Speaker 3: (06:56) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That. That's right. You know, one of the types of gels that I used to use it was just actually the corn syrup. Yeah. But it, but it was better than the glucose. And the maltodextrin ones, like a lot of them have that multi Jack strain, which is just like eating, trying to consume paint, paint stripper. And it's just like, Oh my God. They, like I said, y'all do have their place, but you can [inaudible] their playground, Speaker 2: (07:25) Not on the rise and the bloody fight. I don't know who it is. It's trying to get me, but Speaker 3: (07:30) Somebody you can answer it and put them on the podcast. Speaker 2: (07:38) Yeah, it's it's my business partner. Neil's, not everybody does blame Neil for bringing me in. Speaker 3: (07:44) Yeah. Speaker 2: (07:48) And it happens every week. So those things, but I think my lessons sort of get it that we've got life going on. So now I want to change tech, then I want to talk a little bit about your sporting career. We've touched on the fact that you did coast to coast now. You didn't just do coast to coast. Take, take show your, your, your history with the coast to coast and your amazing records. Speaker 3: (08:12) Oh, thanks. How long did we have? Talk about coast to coast all day. It's a very, very dear race to me. It's what really connected me in New Zealand, you know, the mountains and just how inspirational the courses. It's amazing. So I would, I was traveling and I was doing some adventurous thing. I was living in Australia and training with a guy named by Andrews. He was served by Ironman lifesaving champion of Australia. And he won that a few times and I met him while I was traveling and racing and, and he's just like, you're all right. You're a good cheek. And I'm like, yeah. So I was living in Ozzie and spent about six months training with guy and he really helped me with my kayaking because I hadn't kayaked before. Yup. But that was all ocean paddling. And anyway, I thought, well after my stint there, I've, the plan was to come to New Zealand to race the coast to coast cause it was, you know, like I guess on the bucket list and I thought, well do the coast to coast and then I'll go back to Canada and you know, settle down and get a life and go back to work as a dietician. Speaker 3: (09:20) Well that's, you know, I came in, never left. So, so the first year I came, it was in, when I raised, it was 2004 and that year it flooded out and shoot thirds of the field never finished. They were getting the mountain, it was carnage man. Like it was. And, and I had only been through the run on like I'd gone through the run a couple of times on five days and I hadn't experienced that New Zealand rain around mountains, rivers coming up. I had no concept. I grew up in the prairies in Saskatchewan, like where kind of stuff just doesn't happen. And so I remember going up through goat pass and it was just like, it's Torrens of water coming down. And we're collaborating while we're, you know, using the trees to get up and like skirting these like waterfalls. It was in the Harley and I was like, Holy shit. Speaker 3: (10:09) Like this is, I knew it was pretty, pretty intense. And so I've got through goat pass and there was a Marshall, they're asking us how we were doing and I was definitely probably hypothermic probably, you know, probably wasn't so good for me to carry on, but I actually felt okay. And I said I'm a little cold but I'm okay. And I just kept my head down and I kept running. Didn't stop cause I knew if I stopped they would, that'd be it. And I got through the mountain run and got onto the river and I'm like, you know, and everyone, like it was just like one of my friends from Australia, Chris Clawson, he was like walking back up the Hill to Mount light when I was running down to the river. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Like I didn't realize the corners that was unfolding both in front of me and behind me. Speaker 3: (10:59) Wow. My crew, like the, the marshals were, we're checking people at the [inaudible] transition and if we are hypothermic, they were pulling you off and not letting you get on the water. If I was able to sneak through and my crew like put me in the boat and they're like, Oh, you'll be fine. And off I went. And anyway I made it through and I finished. And like I remember we, I remember reading some Chaffey Lynch's stuff about the coast to coast will make you grovel and Cathy Lynch, for those of you who don't know Kathy Lynn, she's probably one of the toughest athletes. We'll stop, you know, on the planet. She's amazing. I've never met Kathy, but she's one of my inspirations. Yeah. And I just remember her like on that final ride about groveling and as I have like on the final ride, cause I was completely, and when I got to the finish line I just said there is no need to ever do that again. Speaker 3: (12:01) And then two days later with my buddy Lynn, and I was like, you know, my keys, my chronic sponsor, and he's been with me from the start helping me. I love Lenny and I'm, you know, you can start conspiring again for the next, the next year. And, and at the time I was being coached by Michael jacks and Wellington and he emailed me and said, Hey, I reckon you can win this race. And so he coached me through and, and we got there in 2005. I actually had a pretty good race in 2005 I came third again. But I was recovering from knee surgery and I was still getting used to the course. And then 2006 was a major step up for me because I upgraded my class and actually learn how to really handle that river. And I really started to master that river. And I also, I think I had a shift as well in I guess my mental approach. Speaker 3: (12:57) Yep. When I first started it was about, you know, I'm going to come smash the coast to coast. And it was very ego driven. And like I was out to prove something and then it started to transition into more introspection, learning. What was it that was driving me? Why was I wanting to do this and feeling more gratitude and most driving you do you think? No, when you look back? I think, well in the beginning it was, I, it went hand in hand with the cookie business and I needed to be successful in the race because I wanted, I was literally using my racing as a testimony, as a Testament to my power cookies. Yeah, true. And so that was a big driver. I wanted to actually show people how it could, how it could be a big driver was just the, the sheer beauty of the course in New Zealand and being in the mountains. Speaker 3: (13:57) And I think, you know, I've always been a competitive person, so of course that comes through. But, but it was, but it was beyond that. It was a Oh, understanding. Like why, you know, why was I going on this earth? Why was I here? You know, what is it that, that, that I can do? And, and when I would, when I would do well it would, it would inspire other people. And you've probably have this as well and that actually feeds back on to you and, and it really, I was really in tune to that and really receptive and, and you know, like I'm all that kind of stuff that the philosophical stuff and you know, sort of this mind, body, spiritual thing, you know, it's all up to individuals as to how they interpret or assess it. And you know, it might be real, it might be not, but what's, what is real is what's in your head. Speaker 3: (14:47) And I, I was listening and I, it kind of become a part of me and I let it become part of my story and part of my motivation. Wow. So now we're at where we were in two thousand sixty thousand students. So have some flaws you've done and you want it now, how many times is that entitled? I want it. I want it three times. So yes. So 2007 I had a foot injury, I had plantar fasciitis and I tried pushing through and it just didn't work. Like on race day, I always say like with longest day coast-to-coast, if you try to hide an injury or if you have a problem, the race pulls it out of you. And it pulled it out of me. I go past and I was like, Ooh, I just can't do this. And so I pulled that other ACE, which was really sad, but I I it was too much. Speaker 3: (15:40) And it's pretty penis. I mean that's racing when you're pushing the limits, things are gonna go sometimes pear shaped and there was, and if it was easy everyone would be doing it, you know. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So that year Fluor pausey wanted and she sort of popped up and surprise people with her when I pulled out Elena, Asha, one of the other top girls, she didn't have very good race. And so people were sort of speculating and saying, Oh, you know, who's this blur? And, you know, kind of talking about her when, and like it wasn't a, a worthy winner because girls kind of dropped out, but which is just stupid. Like she had an absolutely brilliant race, but like the longest day is about who manages themselves the best. And that day Fleur was amazing. And so the next year in 2008 with a pretty exciting year and I was really working on my mental game and that year I learned a lot. Speaker 3: (16:34) So I, I ended up beating for buying 44 seconds that year. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So she was leaving, coming off the water. I had a bad paddle light at that point. I still, I wasn't eating on the water, I was just using sports, drinking Coke and the river was really low and it was taking longer than I thought. And so my nutrition fell a bit short and I had to pull over and I had an emergency gel, so I had a gel in the backup. I normally don't use gels only on the round bit. So I came off the water's seven minutes behind Fleur and we still have the 70 chain time trial to Christchurch and that's a lot to make up. But one thing that I was really good at with my racing, I sort of took a feather of some Steve Grundy's hat and I mastered that final ride. Speaker 3: (17:21) Yep. Most people hated it. I loved it. I knew every inch of that ride and I knew that I could probably ride 10 minutes quicker than any other woman. So I like I was, and I was very good at my energy management and I think, I think that's why it was good at posting coast is not because I was the best runner or the best paddler or whatever cyclist. I think it's because I was really good at managing my energy and I think that the power cookies had a lot to do with it because it push me to do so. I I had to chase her. Oh, what's up? Speaker 2: (17:54) Yeah. I think that's actually one of the things that I was good at too. I wasn't fast. It wasn't anything bad. W over the really long was sort of races. Yeah. How do you manage your body and your energy levels. And I did have difficulty with dodgiest of things, but I managed to even still be moving, you know, I mean I have all that wall that you're out here. Speaker 3: (18:17) Yeah. You know, my, my coach that year I changed to John Newsome in pressure. She's a triathlon coach. And one of the things that he said to me, which really stuck was when you're in these races, it's, you're always gonna have those low points, but it's all about when you have those low points to really minimize the losses. So I was always open and it's like, well, if I'm having a shitty time right now, chances are my competitors are as well. And so I am going gonna acknowledge it, I'm going to accept it, I'm not going to fight it, but I'm going to deal with it and I'm going to get on. Because before, you know, you'll probably have that next part of your human race where, Oh, all of a sudden I actually feel quite good. And and so it's just a little moment in time and it passes. And so you just have to accept it that those low spots are going to happen and you just got to minimize those losses. So that was really good advice. Speaker 2: (19:09) It's a good quote that it's one of my favorite quotes in the world that says this too will pass. Yes. Keep it in your head when you're in the deep dark prices and rice, it will pass as well. And sometimes, and this is I think for new athletes who haven't experienced this before, they think it's all over. Yeah. They think there's no, there's no coming back from this. I'm feeling so bad. There is no way out. I'm so glad. So I've lost so much energy on vomiting or whatever that they, I bet very 99 times out of a hundred deer is a white bag and they will pass. And if you can give your body maybe just a few minutes break or slowing down a little bit or walking for a bit and then hello, you come back and you [inaudible]. Speaker 3: (19:51) Exactly. Exactly. It's so true. And I think what, what does help with having a bit of experience w well, well you can practice this without racing, but you have to work on like, it's really easy to sit and talk about it out, you know in a, in your living room. But it's another thing to actually put it into practice. And so that's where, when the heat is on and you're in, in that moment, having the wherewithal to kind of look at yourself objectively and know yourself out of it. And that was, I used to joke about doing that. I used to joke about, Oh, I'm brainwashing myself and we would kind of laugh because it's kind of true. I literally was like, that's how I thought of it. I was like brainwashing myself and you know, being able to master your mind. And so, so when I was chasing floor on that final gride and I remember my coach, we, they put me on the bike and he's just like, right to settle in when you're ready, John, put in the big gear and do what you know you can do. Speaker 3: (20:51) And he's like, whatever you do, just never give up. And so on that ride was my first real experience because I'm chasing and I'm, you know, seven minutes isn't a lot of time to make up two hour ride. And I was like, well, okay, am I going to catch her? What's the split? You know? And I was going through all these scenarios and I was thinking, and I was worrying about like, I don't want her to win because that's, you know, I, this is my race and I wanna win this race. And then, you know, and I was thinking beyond into the future and then I was worrying about, you know, stuff that had happened in the past. And as I was observing in myself, as I was thinking futuristically or in the past, my energy would literally drain from my legs. Wow. But when I stopped, when I re, I realized that that was going on. Speaker 3: (21:39) Cause my, I was working with Renzi Hannon, who's is spent in eighth grade. And he, I remember him saying like, when you're thinking futuristically or in the past, you, you literally lose your energy when you're in the presence. And you and I, I gave, I realized that I was like, right, I gave myself permission. Yup. Let her go. Don't worry about her. Don't worry about whether or not I'm gonna win or catch her. Just like dropped my elbows, relaxed my back, click it up a couple more gears, pull off with my heels, take a sip of my Coke and I just focused on writing as fast as I could. And and you know, I still got the split, like the radio guys were going back and forth and giving us splits and you take it on, but you take it on as useful information, you assess it, you take it and then you move on. Speaker 3: (22:27) You don't hang on to it. And so once you get to that point where you're completely in your zone and it's not a magical enigma, you can create it and you can make it happen. And once you're in that zone, you literally feel like super woman. It was, it was an amazing thing. And when I started reeling her in and when I knew I was going to catch her and, and, and this is where this energy thing really came into play because, because it was such exciting racing and the girl, I'm Rachel Cashin who was in third place, she was only a couple minutes behind me so you could ride a bike as well. So we were all, we all finished within a few minutes of each other, which is really exciting racing 13 hour race, but you can feel the energy people were pulled over on the side of the streets like I had never seen before. And I just, with support that was out there and that electric energy, I could literally feel it. And it really fed me cause I was like, I was, I was using it to my advantage. I was taking it and using it and that was a really pivotal time because it made me realize how you can actually put into practice harnessing that, that mind body connection and mastering your mind. Yeah. And this is something that, you know, I try and do nowadays whenever, because most, Speaker 2: (23:46) Most of the time, most of us in the future or in the past, you know, held bet with the crap that makes up my past. We get where in the predictable future is. Dr Joe Dispenza talks about if someone I follow very closely, we're emotionally one way we're being pulled or the other instead of actually being in the present and then creating our future without the baggage and in the middle of a rice, I can totally understand how that drains your imagery and yeah, keeping your mind in the right place. Yeah. Just such a crucial piece of the puzzle wasn't it? Yeah. You can try and everything, but you have to train that mind and then having that experience. So you managed to, so take us over the finish line on those last couple of minutes. What was it like Speaker 3: (24:36) Everybody, everybody was out on the street and a couple people that I trained with and my coach and everyone, it just seemed like everyone was there for me. I think they were there for both, for all of us. I felt like we were there for me and it was just electric and it was almost, I remember riding through red cliffs floor in red cliffs and when I went by her and you know, she, she was at, she was spent and I was just like, I was just like wrapping up. Like it was really crazy shift. But I just remember this, this feeling of the, the Hill I'm riding past the Hill and the people out cheering. It was like riding in an amphitheater. Wow. It was almost like an out of body experience. We just love lunch n*****s. But when I, when I got across the line, I absolutely freaked out. Speaker 3: (25:26) I just lost it and I was screaming and Jenny was like, we were like, cause I was just like, you know, I had such exquisite focus and discipline and then to get across the line and to actually achieve, you know, what I had set out to do, it was just like amazed. Like it was, it was an amazing feeling. It was like, it was pretty life changing. And then when when flare across the line and we high fived it, it was, I think she was really happy as well. Like obviously she didn't win, but it was an amazing thickened the story. It was a moment of empowerment for women in sports to see like, take that boys, this is not a boring one. Wars race. Our girl, and we made this awesome race and Florida and I knew it and it was all that moment wasn't about who won. It was about look at what, look at what an awesome race we just had Blake. Speaker 2: (26:23) Oh no, Ben is such a, you're such a good storyteller and I can feel the emotions of it. And having been in similar situations myself and just, yeah, a hundred K nationals that running around Talco and I'd had a really bad, I injured my back then the night before I, or an actually falling off, went here and hit my kidneys. So my kidneys were hit painkillers and at midnight we were starting it early in the morning and at midnight I was liking Hagan, me, you know, spasms and stuff. And I had take all these painkillers and of course then I was completely woozy with the painkillers. My mum had to dress me. That's how bad I was. And I'm standing on the, that line at 3:00 AM with my business partner and my coach Neil, who was doing his first hundred K and three o'clock in the morning and I'm like completely out of it. Speaker 2: (27:12) But going right, we're going, you know, yeah, here we go. We're doing what we're doing. That's agony. Like the first couple of hours, you're really, really bad. And then and then I started falling asleep because of the painkillers and I just kept, you know, who, who's doing his first hundred and I'm meant to be helping him. Right. And him holding my hand and trying to keep me away. Can you kind of, you know, wake me up as I'm passing out. It was probably good for him. He was great. And then as far more on in the day came in and my body started to wake up, as it often does in the painkillers was out of my system. And some have the kidney pain at least, and got out. Isn't it funny how that happens or the way you think it's all over. And then if you just go, sometimes you can get through it. Speaker 2: (27:59) And then we were running along, we're doing quite well. And then we got to about 70 kilometers in and Neil started to really break down then because it was his first race doing this. He was, you know, having those really deep, dark moments and the spear and crying and, you know, I should do, Oh, and going along and I'm talking to him and we, you know, so we've been helping each other way. And then for about 93, 94 kilometers, and one of my crew came back and they said, the number one lady is just ahead of you. I'm sorry, number two. So I was in third place at the stage and we reckon you can get her, you know? And so I was like, Oh, I've got to go. I'm leaving yet to my Mike Neil and I usually don't like to bend someone fishing. Speaker 2: (28:44) That helped me through the first half, faced as crying and God and go for, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And so then I started drinking the Kaka call. I would watch guys don't drink, I only drink Coke if you're doing all [inaudible] it was like anything goes and was drinking and I was just going like in that flow state where you see you can see here and hitting me and I was just mowing or getting away from you. There is no way honey poke the call. I had my little cousin as a probably year old and he was running beside me and bringing me the codes and stuff and can come on, come on, come on. Speaker 2: (29:26) We passed that. She broke. Of course. You know, cause when you was yeah, and I didn't want to do that too, but I want to know like you have to do it. It's like liquid. And so I mowed down on and I ended up, so I was sick. And so the first birthplace gave it already come across but sick and the nationals. And that was just like one of those Epic moments, you know, one of those times that you and my poor might, Neil came over a few minutes later and he was fine. He had us be a standard Chi under his belt and just, you know, so you never quite know how race is going to go Speaker 3: (30:07) And it's never, it's, it ain't over till it's over. And you know, it was so funny because at that year, when, when in 2008 when it was such a close race, and I remember we were staying with some friends and I was debating about, Oh, should I wear an Aero helmet for the last ride or should I just use my normal helmet? And my friend said, well, you can make it up to, you know, 30 seconds quicker. And it's just like, well then we may have 30 seconds else. I've worn the Aero helmet, you know, one thing that people can do to train themselves to work on, on that being in the moment kind of thing is first of all I think just acknowledging that you are the master of your mind and it's your decision how you take things on. Are you gonna let external things that distract you cause that's all they are, what your competition's doing, what the weather's doing. Speaker 3: (30:56) Those are all just external distractions that you cannot control. So you have to acknowledge what you can control and what you can't control and be really mindful of, of, of just filtering things out. And if something does come at you, take it as like, just be really objective, be really clinical and clear and just take it as information and then, and then you can do some exercises too. Like you know, I'd be out on a training run and you know, long run and you're looking at that Hill way out in the distance of it's like seems so far. But then you go, well actually is it far like who decides how far it is? Like, depending on your perspective, it could actually be quite close. And then you, you run that, you do that run and then you quickly learn, well actually that only took me 10 minutes to run up to that Hill and it looks like ages. Speaker 3: (31:50) And so then you, you kind of take that and go, Oh okay. And then next time it doesn't seem so bad and next time it doesn't seem so bad. So like in the beginning when I was starting the training for longest day, like I had never done that kind of long training before. I was mainly doing like five days days and a few like triathlons and stuff. So to do like a six hour bike ride or a three hour, four hour run like that or big paddles, that was way beyond my variance level. And so in the beginning it almost seems unfathomable to have volume of training. But in the end it was like no big deal at all. And it was just, the only difference was a bit of experience and a bit of just gone, Oh it is fitness. Speaker 2: (32:34) But mostly it's your mindset. And you know what's interesting is like we, you've retired now and I've retired now and for prime going through, yeah, we're suitable now. [inaudible] For a while I'd go and try and do something long. That experience is actually gone. Like I have to reopen up their horizon again, Alex for when I, when I decided that I'm doing something along with today and it's like, what was I so far again where I was, it doesn't stay open. Like just the, I used to do hundreds of kilometers. It doesn't mean you can always stay there. So you actually have to keep, in other words, it's a muscle that needs to be [inaudible]. Speaker 3: (33:15) Yeah. And your body will only let you do so much. And that, that's actually kicked my butt a little bit because like I won't do anything for awhile. Like I'll do stuff but like, you know, getting yoga up and working on my lands, you know, cutting some gorgeous or whatever, and then it's like, Oh, I haven't been for a run in a way while I'm gonna I'm just going to go out for a run. And then, you know, you just think that, but like there's a bit of muscle memory there, but then you pay for it. Cause you know, yeah. Just Speaker 2: (33:41) You think, you think I remember my very last run that I did, which was right across the North Island for a charity of a three days. And with my, my husband [inaudible] and Neil, and it was for a friend of ours who had died and we were running across and I hadn't trained the entire year because I'd had mum sick and I sort of thought, ah, I'll be fine lot, way, way, way more. And then, Oh my God, it kicked my butt because I shouldn't been training. And I hadn't had that mental thing for basically a year, so I got to the finish line, but Oh well I wasn't in good shape, you know? Yeah. I know. And you think it would remain with you by the thousands? Speaker 3: (34:25) Yeah. It's like anything, you have to train it and practice it and that. Yeah. But that keeping your muscles active and [inaudible]. Speaker 2: (34:33) Yeah. And even like, like you're training and you're doing your fitness, it's very different to be doing those long sort of stuff. And they're grueling. What's in store for Emily now. So you're still doing that in [inaudible] week and people get them and yeah. Tell us a little bit about, Speaker 3: (34:49) Well, people can get the ends at the most bike shops in New Zealand. Like especially like the torpedo sevens and the bike shops. We have pretty good distribution there. We've been in the, the new worlds nationwide. Not all the new world stock, all the products though, but if you have, but, but they can certainly get fun. So if you bought like a favorite new world you can in there or you can go ask for them because that Speaker 2: (35:17) You get them in name or, huh. Speaker 3: (35:19) That's what picks peanut butter did. He got his customers to go in and harass the grocery buyers. So go in and like, just be shamelessly, you know, harassing, harassing them. Last year I brought out, I was the first to the New Zealand market with the him a protein cookie. Ed. I'd always wanted to make a protein cookie, but I wanted it to be vegan and natural and I wanted it to taste good. I didn't want to just load it up with sugar substitutes and protein powders. So my ham cookies are made with natural peanut butter dates are, and I'm hemp protein. Wow. And it's not just a token amount of hat. It's like 16 and 18% protein, which we source from New Zealand. And those are in all the countdowns. So most of them countdown. So countdown doesn't have my other range, but they have the ham cookies. Speaker 3: (36:07) Okay. So yeah, so bike shop, BP connect nationwide has, has a few of the bars and I'm actually just working on a distribution deal with a company and, and we're just still going through the process of pulling together all the information. But I'm hoping that that's going to help to give us more widespread distribution because that's like, that's one thing that I've always struggled with over the years. Cause we're a small company. I'm not, I'm not owned by a big food conglomerate. I don't have like big marketing budget from this kind of stuff cause it's really, it's really expensive to to really distribute it and service your product. Like when, when I first met Julisa I was doing that in store tasting new world and Wellington and like to do that all over the country. Obviously you can't do it yourself because you just can't be everywhere at once. But if I were to pay somebody to do that for us, like it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and to do his disdain campaign like it's so it's hard but we're, but we are getting there. We're slowly, slowly just like just like a ultra or just like coast-to-coast, you know, you just take it, chunk it down one step at a time. Speaker 2: (37:18) A fun and fascinating whole distribution thing in the whole [inaudible] their business. Cause you know, I'm entrepreneur toe and I've got the same, it's different product obviously, but we've got my new book coming out and it's the whole same thing. You have to get it to distribution. You have to get into bookstores, you have to get on the Amazon Kindle. God knows [inaudible] box, get it actually, get it translate into other languages. Hopefully get it into Australia or new ways or this with stuff that you have to be aware of. Speaker 3: (37:44) Yeah, no idea. Oh, Oh totally. And like little things like packaging, like, like all of their packaging designs, there's so much that goes into it and people just think, I don't think they, I don't know if they realize just what goes on behind the scenes and just his magically arrived here. There's a lot that goes into it. So yeah. So I'm looking at, yeah, we want to hopefully get this distribution happening and, and it'll give us a little bit more like, you know, they'll be able to get us into more places like the four squares and hopefully more of the new roads and get more ranging and top down. So, so that's what's coming up. What else? So really working on that. And then we've got our property. And so I'm a bit of a homebody and I love working on my land. I love planting trees. Speaker 3: (38:35) I planted about 5,000 native trees on our property rehabbing. So we've got wish out the back, which is, it's absolutely beautiful. But the front section is on a whole hillside, which I, well it's funny cause it's got gorse on it. And you know, at first I was gonna just flip all the Gores to get rid of it, but it's actually really good to stabilize the Hill, but it's also nitrogen fixing it. The legume. Oh wow. It's actually really good for the soil. And nutritionally as a dietician it's the course isn't so bad. And also to the NATO, it's a good nursery plan for the natives to come through. Wow. So we've been up here for a few years now and even in that time I can see the native starting to overtake the course. Wow. But I'm still doing a lot of planting. Like I did a whole section that was quite steep and then I've got like along our road side that I've done. And it just takes a lot of maintenance and a lot of that'll keep your foot good guys. Keep me fit. Like if I, if I do a day on the scrub powder, I feel like I've done a big post to coast. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: (39:43) The aim. Let's, let's Oh, we got to wrap up now, but I just wanted to thank you very much for coming on the show and for sharing your wisdom because it's really interesting. I have no idea what it takes to doing coast to coast, so all I've ever done is run. Speaker 3: (39:58) I'm the same thing with all, like I, I'm sure like I could do an ultra, but I just couldn't imagine doing like a hundred or 200 Kane. Why? Oh, I don't know. My, I think my feet, I think my body's limit is about that 33 K of arch. Okay. That's me. Yeah. Speaker 2: (40:20) But yeah, it's different. A different, you know, techs, different skills and disciplines and to do something that complicated, I always look at coast-to-coast and go, Oh God. And the biking in the running in, you know, how much money that takes and how much it, yeah, I'll put it over here, shows a runner, Speaker 3: (40:37) This animal can, I can totally get that. The simplicity of running is, is there's a lot to be said for that. And then I have to say like bat is my go to fitness is yoga and running. Cause you just put on your shoes and go, there's no stop to the gear. Yeah. It's easy. Speaker 2: (40:52) So nice not to be fiddling around with stuff sometimes. Speaker 3: (40:56) Oh that's totally, totally, yeah. Speaker 2: (41:00) Wait, is it, you want to see like if you, you know, you've got the young girls out there that are starting out in their careers 40 or, or just thinking about things like anything. Speaker 3: (41:08) Yeah. If there's something stressing you out, don't worry about it. Just focus on yourself. Focus on what you need to do and just don't worry about other stuff. Just, you know, I used to spend a lot of energy wasted worrying about things I couldn't control. Yes. Like it's like Len, my quiet guy. I remember one time, you know, he just, you know, we were talking about something, I was stressing about something, you know, unnecessarily. And Lynn just said, don't worry about it. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. And that was, that was actually really good advice. So yeah, don't, don't stress stuff. And Speaker 2: (41:44) That might Manson was at a mall hose and just keep pushing forward. Hey, Speaker 3: (41:49) That's right. That's right. And just get out there and do it and just yeah, we're work on your mental game. [inaudible] There's some really great stuff. Like, I know you mentioned Joe does better than my husband actually just mentioned him. I'm going to start getting into his stuff. Speaker 2: (42:03) Amazing. Oh. Cause the whole mind body connection and the, the meditation and the power of leaving all the crap that you've gotten past behind. And it's some pretty deep stuff, but it's a, yeah. Work in progress. Speaker 3: (42:14) Yeah. It's all over. Can programs and just, you know, remember that you're not going to accomplish everything in a day. Like just do, do what you can do within your control and understand your limits and just put one foot in front of the other and just Speaker 2: (42:27) Go for it. Sounds brilliant. Awesome. So everybody know, kick kick-out aims cocaine and brought them support here. What's your website? Him? So it's power, cookies.com. Our cookies.com. Speaker 3: (42:41) Yay. Thanks so much, Lisa. That's be good. Speaker 2: (42:45) It's been lovely having you on and thanks for being such a great role model and yeah, we're hopefully we'll catch up with you again, so. Speaker 3: (42:52) Okay, that sounds really good. Thanks Lisa. Look forward to catching up with you as well. Speaker 1: (42:59) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team. At www.lisatamati.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.