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You’ve heard of the glass ceiling, but what about the glass walls? Dr. Andrea Wojnicki speaks with Dr. Amy Diehl, co-author of Glass Walls, about six subtle yet powerful gender bias barriers still limiting women at work. Learn how these biases show up in communication in the workplace and what individuals and leaders can do to recognize and dismantle them. CONNECT WITH ANDREA  Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ CONNECT WITH DR. AMY DIEHL Dr. Diehl’s website & speaking engagement enquiries: https://amy-diehl.com GLASS WALLS book: https://amy-diehl.com/glass-walls-shattering-the-six-gender-bias-barriers-still-holding-women-back-at-work/ Gender Bias Scale for Women Leaders: https://amy-diehl.com/gender-bias-scale/  TRANSCRIPTION “Female hostility. I always get the question. Sometimes people say that the women in the workplace are worse than the men. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, but I will say that when women don’t support other women, it hurts us more. We expect solidarity from our female colleagues.” That was Dr. Amy Diehl, co-author of the book Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work. In the next 45 minutes, we’re going beyond the glass ceiling and glass cliffs. You’re going to learn what those six glass walls are, how they manifest at work, and what we can do about them. Especially in the context of communication, we’ll explore the power of labeling these barriers and talking about them. We all witness these glass walls at work. Whether you’re a woman directly affected, an ally observing them, or a leader with the power to influence change, this episode is for you. Let’s be clear: this isn’t about complaining. This is about using real research to identify, label, and discuss gender bias. Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast. If you’re a returning listener, welcome back. If you’re new, let me introduce myself. I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at Talk About Talk. You can learn more about me at talkabouttalk.com. While you’re there, I encourage you to sign up for my email newsletter. Between this podcast and the newsletter, you’ll get valuable communication coaching. I help leaders improve their communication: presentation skills, executive presence, precision, and personal branding. All of these skills are hard enough without the additional challenge of gender bias. Recently I read Glass Walls by Dr. Amy Diehl and Dr. Leanne Dzubinski. From a communication perspective, I saw insights that I knew would resonate with you. So I reached out to Amy, and here we are. Here’s how these 45 minutes will go: I’ll first introduce Dr. Diehl (Amy) and then we’ll jump into the interview. At the end, I’ll share three key takeaways. Yes, always three; the power of three. OK, let me introduce Amy. Amy Diehl, PhD, is an award-winning IT leader and Chief Information Officer at Wilson College in Pennsylvania. She’s also a gender equity researcher and co-author of Glass Walls. Her work has appeared in scholarly journals, Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Ms. Magazine. She’s a sought-after speaker, consultant, and expert witness. Her passion is gender equality in society and the workplace. You can find her at amy-diehl.com. Here we go! Thank you so much, Amy, for being here to talk about glass walls with me and the Talk About Talk listeners.   Amy Diehl: Thanks so much for having me, Andrea. I’m excited for this conversation.   Andrea Wojnicki: We’ve all heard about the glass ceiling and the glass cliff, but can you define what glass walls are and walk us through the six described in your book?   AD: When my co-author Dr. Leanne Dzubinski and I wrote the book, we didn’t initially have the title. It came together after we finished the manuscript and realized what we were really talking about—barriers in every direction. Not just a ceiling above, but walls all around. Invisible, like glass, you often don’t notice them until you run into them. So the metaphor of glass walls made sense.   These barriers are baked into workplace cultures. Our goal was to name them, make them visible, and start discussions about how to dismantle them.   AW: It’s a perfect metaphor. Can you walk us through the six walls? AD: Absolutely. The first is male privilege: A dominant workplace culture that includes male gatekeeping, the boys’ club, and even the glass cliff, where women are set up in risky roles and then blamed when things go wrong.   AW: And that first wall, male privilege, forms the foundation for the others, right?   AD: Exactly. The other five barriers build on that base.   AW: Before you go further, I want to encourage listeners to do a mental checklist as they hear about these barriers. Ask yourself: Have I experienced this? Have I observed this?   AD: That’s great advice. For context, we developed a tool, the Gender Bias Scale for Women Leaders, while researching. It identifies the six barriers and is available on my website as a quick self-assessment.   AW: Fantastic. I’ll include that link in the show notes. AD: The second wall is disproportionate constraints. Women are in the workplace, but with limitations, fewer choices, more scrutiny. From career paths to communication, women face muted voices and are held to unequal standards. Their appearance, tone, and behavior are under constant watch. The third is insufficient support: lack of mentorship, sponsorship, and access to informal networks. Women are often left out of spaces where decisions are made. One insight from my dissertation: the most confounding barrier for women was unsupportive leadership. Being hired, but not backed when challenges arise, is demoralizing.   AW: That’s especially confusing. “You hired me. Why aren’t you supporting me?”   AD: Exactly. They couldn’t make sense of that. The fourth wall is devaluation. Women’s contributions are diminished. Salary inequality is one example. Others include being interrupted, called pet names, or not addressed by their professional titles. And there’s office housework (taking on tasks like organizing lunch or cleaning the fridge) without recognition.   AW: Linda Babcock’s work on “non-promotable tasks” comes to mind.   AD: Yes. These tasks are necessary but should be shared. Better yet, hire admin staff to handle them.   AW: Leaders must ensure tasks are equitably distributed. AD: Right. The fifth glass wall is hostility. Harassment, discrimination, and, yes, female hostility. People often ask whether women in the workplace are worse than men. I don’t know if that’s true, but when women don’t support other women, it hurts more. We expect solidarity from each other. When another woman blocks your opportunity, it feels more shocking.   AW: Can you talk about the queen bee phenomenon and female-only versus mixed-gender dynamics?   AD: Yes, and the sixth and final wall is acquiescence. After repeatedly hitting barriers, women may give up. They stay silent, limit aspirations, or leave entirely. Not because they’re incapable, but because the emotional toll is too high.   AW: So we’re talking to women, allies, and leaders; people who can help create equitable, productive, happy workplaces.   AD: Exactly. AW: Let’s shift to communication. One strength of your book is the vocabulary. You and Leanne coined many terms to describe these phenomena.   AD: Yes. When we couldn’t find terms in the literature, we created them. For example, role incredulity: assuming a woman isn’t in charge. A director mistaken for an assistant. A physician assumed to be a nurse.   AW: One of my clients is a global CEO, and people often assume she runs just the Canadian division. It’s a classic case.   AD: Yes. It’s often unintentional, but impactful. That moment can change a person’s perception. Another term is credibility deficit: women’s statements aren’t believed unless confirmed by someone else. My co-author Leanne once had a man turn to her husband to verify what she said, even though she was the expert.   AW: That example stuck with me. What about terms like mansplaining and he-peating?   AD: Mansplaining: Explaining something to a woman in a condescending way. He-peating: A woman’s idea is ignored until a man repeats it and receives credit. If done intentionally, that’s called bro-propriating.   AW: The intent matters. Sometimes it’s unintentional, but still harmful.   AD: Right. One of the biggest issues is interrupting. Men’s voices are privileged. They’re taught it’s acceptable to dominate conversations. If you’re interrupted repeatedly, especially by peers, it undermines your credibility.   AW: I coach women through this all the time. They need strategies, from jokes to private conversations, to enlisting allies.   AD: Yes. Sometimes the most effective approach is pulling someone aside, assuming positive intent, and addressing the pattern.   AW: Let’s talk about a story from a workshop participant. A senior OB-GYN received feedback that she was difficult. She believed female nurses were biased against her.   AD: That’s the status-leveling burden. Women in higher roles often go above and beyond (baking cookies, being extra nice) to gain cooperation from other women. It’s about navigating the contradiction between gender and organizational hierarchies.   AW: Leaders should be aware and provide training so teams understand these dynamics.   AD: Yes. Raising awareness helps people recognize patterns and adjust their behavior.   AW: You mentioned experiencing this personally.   AD: Yes. I had to spend extra time connecting with a secretary who didn’t support me. In the end, what changed things was her retirement. I even sent male colleagues to ask for things because they’d be more successful.   AW: It’s about recognizing the situation and working around it strategically. Let’s talk about flip it to test it.   AD: A simple but powerful tool from sociologist Kristin Pressner. If you say, “Maria is too assertive,” flip it: “Would I say Mario is too assertive?” Probably not. It reveals gender bias in assumptions.   AW: Great for self-checking and for leaders in hiring or evaluations.   AD: Exactly.   AW: What’s your take on Adam Grant’s article about women using “weak” language strategically?   AD: His mistake was calling it weak. It’s not weak, it’s smart. Women are adapting to navigate male-normed environments. Maybe men should adopt these techniques, too.   AW: Like imposter syndrome. Maybe men should question themselves more!   AD: Yes. These strategies make women effective communicators.   AW: Tell us about your next book, Excuses, Excuses.   AD: It explores six myths about why women are never “just right” at work, excuses based on age, appearance, race, etc. The subtitle is The Six Myths Why Women Are Never Quite Right at Work and How We Can Shatter Them. Many of these judgments are contradictory: too quiet, too outspoken, too young, too old. It’s not about the woman. It’s about systemic bias.   AW: Sounds like a powerful follow-up.   AD: We aim to name these issues so they can be addressed.   AW: Let’s end with three rapid-fire questions. Are you an introvert or an extrovert?   AD: Introvert. I think before I speak, and I listen a lot. I believe introverts make great leaders.   AW: What’s your communication pet peeve?   AD: The expectation that women fluff up their emails with pleasantries. It’s time-consuming. With close colleagues, I skip it. But with others, I feel I have to include it so I’m not perceived as cold.   AW: Should men do more of that, too?   AD: Yes. It builds relationships and improves communication for everyone.   AW: Final question. Any books or podcasts you’re recommending?   AD: Yes—Powerfully Likable: A Women’s Guide to Effective Communication by Kate Mason. It offers practical tips without telling women to change who they are. It’s about authentic, effective strategies.   AW: Thank you, Amy. Any final words for listeners?   AD: Gender bias is solvable. It takes all of us working together. And if you’re experiencing bias, remember: it’s not about you. It’s a systemic issue. Don’t take it personally. Strategize and persist.   AW: Thank you, Amy. I learned so much from our conversation.   AD: Thank you for having me.   AW: Most of my guests are doing good in the world, but Amy truly stands out. Her research and advocacy are making workplaces better. As promised, here are the three takeaways I want to reinforce: Vocabulary: Learn and use terms like glass walls, role incredulity, credibility deficit, housekeeping duties, non-promotable tasks, mansplaining, he-peating, and bro-propriating. Labeling helps make bias real, and solvable. Female hostility: It hurts more when it comes from other women. This isn’t about blaming. It’s about raising awareness and fostering solidarity. Intentionality: Bias is often unintentional, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore it. Consider whether a private or public conversation is appropriate. Thank you again, Amy. And thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review the podcast. It helps others discover us.   Talk soon!   The post Gender Bias and Communication in the Workplace: 6 GLASS WALLS with Dr. Amy Diehl (ep. 189) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Are you ready to go beyond the basics with AI? If you’re only using it for simple tasks, it’s time to level up. Andrea shares three powerful strategies that move past the fundamentals to elevate your communication, deepen your audience connection, and help you integrate AI seamlessly into your workflow. CONNECT WITH ANDREA  Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ How to Use AI to Improve Your Communication Most of the executives I coach are already using AI in their day-to-day work. They’ve mastered the basics, but they know there’s more potential. If that sounds like you, you’re in the right place. Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast. I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (but please, call me Andrea). I’m an executive communication coach who helps leaders communicate with confidence and credibility. Through private coaching, workshops, keynotes, and this podcast, I empower professionals like you to level up your executive presence and personal brand. In this episode, I’m sharing three next-level strategies for using AI to supercharge your communication effectiveness. But first: let’s talk about how most of us are already using AI. 5 Basic Ways to Use AI to Improve Communication AI has become a behind-the-scenes partner in our daily workflows. If you’re using it this way, you’re not alone: Spellchecking and grammar correction Using AI as a thesaurus to find better or more precise words Brainstorming content, from blog posts to presentation titles Adjusting tone, such as making your writing sound more formal, supportive, clever, or empathetic Summarizing or shortening content to make it more concise These tools are powerful, but they’re just the beginning. 3 Next-Level AI Strategies to Boost Your Communication If you’re ready to go beyond spellcheck and tone tweaks, here are three powerful ways to use AI to improve your communication strategy: 1. Crafting Compelling Metaphors Metaphors are one of the most underused tools in business communication. They help clarify complex ideas and make your message memorable. 💡 Example: A friend of mine, Richard (a partner at a consulting firm) explains staffing requirements to clients using a metaphor: “Our team is like a tennis ball machine. If your team doesn’t have enough people to hit the balls back, the balls pile up on your side, and the engagement stalls.” How to Use AI for Metaphors: Ask AI: “Give me 10 metaphors to describe [concept].” Narrow it down to a few promising ideas, then refine with follow-up prompts. Test different tones (professional, humorous, or inspirational) to fit your audience. When used well, a metaphor can become the centerpiece of your pitch, deck, or keynote. 2. Creating Visuals with AI AI isn’t just for text. It can also generate or inspire visuals that elevate your communication. Here are some ways to use AI to create effective visuals: Upload a document and ask: “What visuals would best support this?” Ask AI to generate charts or graphs to illustrate data Request slide outlines or graphic design ideas for a presentation Use AI to generate illustrations or images or brief a designer with AI-generated direction 💡 Pro Tip: I used AI to create the cover art for this episode. Check it out at talkabouttalk.com on the podcast tab (link in the show notes!). 3. Getting Critical Feedback from AI Would you rather get constructive criticism from your audience, or from AI before you hit send? Use AI to anticipate issues with your communication by simulating tough critics: Prompts to Try: “What questions might my audience have after reading this?” “Why might my boss reject this?” “What parts of this proposal might frustrate a skeptical customer?” “If you were a disillusioned editor, how would you critique this article?” Asking AI to play devil’s advocate helps you spot blind spots and strengthen your message before it goes live. 3 Caveats to Keep in Mind When Using AI for Communication Before you go all-in, keep these best practices top of mind: Enhance, don’t outsource. AI is your assistant, not your voice. Start with your own ideas. Keep personal messages personal. Use your real voice in personal communication. Relationships deserve authenticity. Double-check everything. AI still hallucinates. Your credibility depends on accuracy. Recap: How to Use AI to Communicate More Effectively The Basics: Spellchecking Thesaurus use Brainstorming Tone adjustment Summarizing Next-Level Tactics: Crafting compelling metaphors Creating engaging visuals Getting constructive, critical feedback What About You? How are you using AI to enhance your communication? I’d love to hear your thoughts. Connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram, or comment on YouTube. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a colleague, and don’t forget to subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast for more communication tips. Thanks for listening. Talk soon!  The post How to Use AI to Improve Your COMMUNICATION (ep.188) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Bad habits in your communication, like apologetic language, upspeak, and jargon overload, can undermine your credibility. Dr. Andrea Wojnicki shares fixes for 10 bad habits so you can start communicating with confidence and credibility.  Get the free “Bad Habits” download: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/badhabits CONNECT WITH ANDREA  Website: http://talkabouttalk.com/ LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Do You Have Bad Communication Habits? Let’s be honest—we all do. Yes, even communication coaches like me. I’m not talking about quirks my teenage kids tease me about. I mean legitimate habits that undermine how we show up—especially as leaders. Recently, I caught myself overusing the word “right?” at the end of sentences. It was like I needed agreement from you, the listener. Once or twice per episode? Fine. But it got repetitive—and annoying. So I stopped. I also caught myself saying “you guys” instead of something more inclusive like “everyone.” Not great. The Perks of Hosting a Podcast One benefit of podcasting (and YouTube)? You get to review your own communication patterns. And let me tell you—it’s eye-opening. So, what are your bad communication habits? Bad communication habits can be distracting, annoying, and worst of all—they erode your credibility. That’s a big deal, especially if you’re an ambitious professional or executive (which I bet you are, since you’re here!). Episode 187: 10 Bad Communication Habits That Undermine Your Credibility (and What to Do Instead) Welcome to Talk About Talk. I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki—please, call me Andrea. I coach executives to communicate with confidence and credibility. At TalkAboutTalk.com, you’ll find info on 1:1 coaching, corporate workshops, a free communication skills newsletter, and more. Ready to level up your communication? Let’s dive in. Download the Free Checklist Follow along with this episode using the free downloadable checklist at talkabouttalk.com/badhabits. It lists all ten habits and what to do instead. Great for self-evaluation or as a conversation starter with colleagues or your boss. Bad Habit No. 1: Weak, Apologetic Language Phrases like “This might be a dumb idea…” or “Sorry, can I just…” diminish your authority before you’ve even started. Fix: Cut qualifiers like “maybe” or “I think.” Replace “sorry” (unless warranted) with confident framing like, “Here’s an idea to consider.” Use silence instead of hedging. Try reviewing transcripts of your meetings and searching for “sorry,” “just,” and “maybe.” Bad Habit No. 2: Upspeak That rising tone at the end of a sentence? It turns statements into questions and signals a lack of confidence. Fix: Practice “landing” your sentences. Use tools like a post-it with a question mark and an X through it. Deliver statements with conviction—no upward lilt. Bad Habit No. 3: Rambling (a.k.a. “Epic Storytelling”) Rambling dilutes your message and frustrates your audience. Senior leaders especially need to speak with precision. Fix: Start with a clear headline: “Here’s what I recommend.” Use structure: “Let me give you three reasons why…” Pause intentionally and stay focused. Bad Habit No. 4: Filler Words Overusing “um,” “like,” or “right?” distracts your audience. They stop listening to your message and focus on your delivery flaws. Fix: Watch yourself on video. Ask a trusted colleague to flag filler words. Practice intentional silence instead. Bad Habit No. 5: Lack of Eye Contact Avoiding eye contact can make you seem disengaged—or worse, untrustworthy. Fix: In person: hold eye contact for a few seconds at a time. On Zoom: look directly into the camera, especially when making key points. Bad Habit No. 6: Monotone Delivery A flat tone, even with smart content, loses the room. Fix: Vary tone, cadence, and volume. Emphasize key words. Think: how would you read a children’s book? Use dramatic pauses to draw attention. Bad Habit No. 7: Getting Interrupted Allowing interruptions can signal low authority—especially from peers or subordinates. Fix: Politely assert yourself: “I’d love to hear your thoughts—right after I finish mine.” Say it calmly and confidently. Bad Habit No. 8: Using Corporate Jargon Buzzwords like “value-added” or “scalable solutions” can confuse and alienate. Fix: Speak plainly. Test your language with someone outside your field. If they pause or ask for clarity, simplify. Bad Habit No. 9: Dodging Tough Questions When you deflect hard questions, you risk losing trust. Fix: Acknowledge the question: “That’s a great question.” Share what you know. Be honest about follow-ups if needed. Bad Habit No. 10: Confidence Without Warmth Confidence is key—but without warmth or a growth mindset, it can come off as arrogance. Fix: Use names, smile, and ask genuine questions. Admit where you’re still learning. Show curiosity and openness. Wrap-Up: Time for Self-Assessment That was a lot—but it’s worth it. Visit talkabouttalk.com/badhabits for your free checklist. Use it to evaluate your habits and prioritize your improvement. 📩 If you enjoyed this episode: Subscribe to Talk About Talk Leave a review—every rating helps! Share this episode with a friend or colleague who could use a communication tune-up For more communication tips, sign up for my bi-weekly newsletter or explore executive coaching options at TalkAboutTalk.com. Thanks for listening—Talk soon! The post 10 Bad Communication Habits That Undermine Your CREDIBILITY (ep. 187) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Discover how to elevate your elevator pitch with a dynamic 3-point framework designed for authentic communication. Learn the importance of personalized messaging and empathy to make meaningful connections. This approach empowers you to engage confidently during high-stakes conversations, ensuring you leave a memorable impact. Say goodbye to scripted pitches and embrace a tailored style that resonates with your audience!

Looking for guidance on how to ace your job interview? Andrea shares an interview preparation checklist, focused on your preparation before the interview, your communication during the interview, what to do after the interview, and how to answer specific Qs. You can download the free downloadable checklist at talkabouttalk.com/interview RESOURCES The “Ace Your Interview Checklist” free download: https://talkabouttalk.com/interview Talk About Talk podcast episodes focused on boosting your confidence: Ep.158 – 7 Ways to Boost Your Confidence & Your Credibility Ep.83 – Let’s Talk Imposter Syndrome Ep.169  – Communicate with Confidence – Mental Preparation CONNECT WITH ANDREA  Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/   TRANSCRIPT Do you have any memorable interview stories? Any epic fails—either as the interviewer or the interviewee? I do. And while it wasn’t exactly a disaster, it still haunts me. This story takes place when I was finishing my doctorate and actively looking for a faculty position. I was in my early 30s, super keen, and well-prepared. Most of my first-round interviews were held back-to-back at a conference hotel—efficient, intense, and generally successful. I turned most of those interviews into second-round invitations. But not all of them. There was one interview that didn’t go well. In fact, it was a complete miss. And to this day, I still think about it. When the “H-bomb” backfires This interview was with a state school in the U.S. I walked into the room and was met by two middle-aged white men. As soon as they looked at me, they exchanged a glance… and then rolled their eyes. One of them said, “You probably wouldn’t accept a job here anyway. But why don’t you tell us about yourself and why you want to work here?” Yep—the H-bomb. That’s what we call it when the Harvard credential backfires. In hindsight, I should’ve stood up, thanked them for their time, and walked out. But I didn’t. I stayed. For the full 45 minutes. And let them grill me. It. Was. Torture. Have you ever wanted to walk out of an interview? Walking out of an interview is a bold move. And honestly, staying was probably the right call. What if those two professors later talked to faculty at another school and said I walked out mid-interview? Still, that moment sticks with me as my worst interview ever. And here’s the kicker—I hadn’t even opened my mouth, and they had already decided they didn’t like me. Even great interviews can be stressful Even when the interviewer wants to hire you, job interviews can be incredibly anxiety-inducing. That’s why, in this episode, we’re covering four key things to help you ace your next interview: How to prepare before the interview How to communicate during the interview What to do after the interview How to answer specific questions effectively Let’s dive in. Hi there! I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki, but please just call me Andrea. I coach ambitious executives—just like you—to communicate with confidence and credibility. If you’re new here, check out TalkAboutTalk.com to learn more about: 1-on-1 executive coaching Corporate communication workshops Our podcast archive And our popular bi-weekly newsletter Want to nail your job interview? Lately, I’ve had a lot of clients in career transition ask me for help with interview skills. Good news: Interviewing is all about communication. And that’s exactly my sweet spot. To succeed in your next job interview, you need to confidently and clearly communicate your true and best self to the interviewer. So I created something just for you: Download the “Ace Your Interview” Checklist Yes, it’s completely free. And yes, it covers everything we’re about to discuss. Press pause and print it now, or listen and come back to it later. Either way, go to:  talkabouttalk.com/interview One more thing before we dive in: Confidence Before you focus on interview prep, there’s one other thing you need to manage: Your confidence. I won’t cover confidence in this episode, but don’t worry—I’ve got you. Check the show notes for links to other Talk About Talk episodes that focus on building confidence and managing nerves. How to prepare for a job interview: The four focus areas 1. Before the interview: Preparation is everything Start by researching the company, the role, and your interviewers if possible. Prepare examples that showcase your experience and align with the job description. Practice your self-introduction and key talking points. Bonus: Use the checklist I created to guide your prep. It’s all there. Download it now. 2. During the interview: Communicate strategically Your job in the interview is to communicate your value clearly and confidently. Be concise, positive, and focused. Use frameworks like STAR (Situation, Task, Action, Result) to structure your responses. And remember: Your personal brand matters. Every answer should reinforce who you are and what sets you apart. 3. After the interview: Follow up like a pro Always send a thank-you note—ideally within 24 hours. Reinforce your interest in the role, recap a highlight from your conversation, and reiterate how you can add value. A thoughtful follow-up can help you stand out and leave a lasting impression. 4. Answering specific interview questions Prepare for common questions like: “Tell me about yourself.” “What’s your greatest strength?” “Tell me about a time you failed.” “Why do you want to work here?” And don’t forget to prepare smart questions to ask the interviewer too. Curiosity signals engagement and critical thinking. Free resource: Ace your interview checklist Want to feel calm and confident before your next interview? Want a tool to help you stay on track during your prep? Grab the free downloadable checklist here: talkabouttalk.com/interview Use it to prep for your next big opportunity—whether it’s your dream job, a board seat, or an internal promotion. One last reminder: If you’re on the job market, download the ace your interview checklist at talkabouttalk.com/interview. If you found this episode helpful, please: Subscribe to the Talk About Talk podcast Leave a review—I read every single one Share this episode with someone who’s interviewing Thanks for listening—and as always… Talk soon. The post How to Ace Your INTERVIEW (ep.185) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

#BeYourSelfOnPurpose: Five words packed full of meaning. Andrea shares the power of developing your strong unique personal brand by doing two things: 1) being yourself, 2) on purpose. You’ll also learn three specific contexts when you can put this mantra into action. CONNECT WITH ANDREA  Website: TalkAboutTalk.com LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/   TRANSCRIPT Recently, I hosted a live virtual webinar on personal branding—and I have to say, it went really well. Now, my corporate workshops and webinars usually go great, but this one felt different. I was vibing, and I could tell by the audience’s reactions and questions that they were really getting something valuable out of it. After the webinar, I received a ton of positive feedback. One message stood out: a woman messaged me on LinkedIn almost immediately. She told me she takes her dry erase whiteboard very seriously—it’s where she puts her goals, meeting notes, follow-ups. After the session, she erased everything on it and wrote just five words: Be Your Self On Purpose. Then she sent me a photo. I was floored. A couple hours later, I posted the webinar video on LinkedIn, and a senior executive I deeply respect commented with a hashtag: #BeYourSelfOnPurpose. That’s when I knew—this concept really resonates. It’s clear that being your self on purpose is an idea that sticks. So, in this episode, we’re going to double down on those five powerful words: Be Your Self On Purpose. You’re going to learn what it means, why it matters, and how you can apply it to build a strong, unique personal brand. Welcome to Talk About Talk – Episode #184: Be Your Self On Purpose Hi there! I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please just call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at Talk About Talk, where I help ambitious executives communicate with confidence and clarity so they can succeed and reach their career goals. You can learn more about me and all the coaching and resources I offer—one-on-one coaching, small-group bootcamps, corporate workshops, this bi-weekly podcast, and my newsletter—at TalkAboutTalk.com. And if we’re not connected yet on LinkedIn, I’d love to change that. Let’s Talk Personal Branding Before we dive into what it means to Be Your Self On Purpose, I want to briefly revisit the roots of personal branding and share a few definitions. In 1997, when I was a brand manager at Kraft Foods, I received a physical copy of Fast Company magazine. The cover looked like a box of Tide laundry detergent—but instead of “Tide,” it said “You.” The headline: “The Brand Called You” by Tom Peters. This article blew my mind. Peters didn’t invent personal branding, but he brought it into the corporate mainstream. He suggested that everything we apply to marketing products and services—differentiation, target markets, brand values—can and should be applied to ourselves. Personal branding was born. Fast forward to my time teaching MBA students at Rotman. At the end of every branding course, I would dedicate a class to personal branding. Why? Because everything we learned about branding applies directly to you. Another powerful definition comes from Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon: “Your brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room.” That’s a great thought experiment. Ask yourself: what are your stakeholders—your clients, your boss, your team—saying about you when you’re not there? If their perception doesn’t align with how you want to be seen, that just means you’ve got some work to do. That’s what personal branding is for. Then, during a podcast interview with marketing legend Seth Godin, I asked him how he defines personal branding. His response? “Your brand is what people think you’re going to do next.” Another brain explosion moment. This forward-looking definition adds a sense of momentum. It’s not just about your past—it’s about what people expect from you next. Taking Control: You Have Agency What’s missing in both Bezos’ and Godin’s definitions is agency. Yes, your brand is what others perceive—but you have the power to shape that perception. So here’s my definition: Personal branding is about being your self on purpose. Instead of passively going with the flow in your career, it’s about stepping into your power and making intentional choices. It’s about owning your reputation, your professional identity—your brand. Be Your Self. On Purpose. Let’s break it down: Be Your Self This is about being your authentic, whole, and best self. Not a different version of yourself depending on the context, but a strategic filter of what parts of you you choose to share. You are always you—but you emphasize different aspects depending on the situation. On Purpose This is where strategy and discipline come in. You’re not just letting things happen—you are intentionally reinforcing the parts of your brand that align with your goals. You are being thoughtful about how you show up. The Wardrobe Metaphor Here’s a great metaphor I first heard from Ron Tite: Think of your brand like your wardrobe. All your clothes are authentically you. But you choose what to wear depending on the day—movie date, big meeting, networking event. The same is true for your personal brand. You are always you, but you decide what to highlight in each situation. That’s being your self—on purpose. Expansive & Focused This idea might feel messy—and that’s okay. Human beings are complex. You are being expansive by embracing your full identity, and focused by strategically choosing what parts of your brand to share. That balance is where the magic happens. Three Ways to Practice Being Yourself on Purpose 1. Your Self-Introduction This is your chance to communicate who you are, what you’ve done, and where you’re going. Use the present-past-future framework and be strategic about what you share. Don’t just rattle off your job title—own your narrative. 2. Comments in Meetings Whether you’re a CEO or a new hire, how you contribute in meetings matters. Try framing your input like this: “Based on my experience in ___” or “With my expertise in ___.” This reinforces your value and strengthens your brand. 3. The Stories You Tell How you tell your story—especially career transitions—can either strengthen or weaken your brand. Be intentional. Tell the truth, but do it in a way that highlights your leadership style, your strengths, and what sets you apart. Final Thoughts Write these five words down: Be Your Self On Purpose. Put them on a sticky note, on your whiteboard, at the top of your to-do list. Let them remind you to show up as your best, most authentic self—strategically, intentionally, and unapologetically. If you want more coaching on personal branding, head over to TalkAboutTalk.com. You’ll find my podcast archive, my newsletter, and information on coaching and bootcamps. Just search “personal branding” in the search bar. That’s it for episode #184. Now go out there—and Be Your Self On Purpose. Talk soon. The post #BeYourSelfOnPurpose – Be Your Self On Purpose and build a strong personal brand (ep.184) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

What’s your archetype? Knowing your archetype can help you control your narrative, provide you with focus, and boost your confidence. Take the Archetypes Quiz at www.talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz. Archetypes are shared, universal patterns that help us understand characters, stories, and even ourselves.     12 PROFESSIONAL IDENTITY ARCHETYPES   CAREGIVER – maternal, comforting, trusted, generous  CREATOR – artist, designer, maker, vibrant  CITIZEN – girl/guy next door, hardworking, friendly, down-to-earth, loyal  EXPLORER – adventurous, innovative, pioneer, investigator, trailblazer HERO – disciplined, inspiring, strong/brave, warrior, champion  OPTIMIST – kind, simple, innocent, pure  JESTER – humorous, comedic, entertainer, playful, light-hearted  IMPASSIONED – focused on senses, relationships, inclusive, passionate, devoted  MAGICIAN – transformer, dreamer, visionary, spiritual guide.  REVOLUTIONARY– radically distinct, bold, rebel, unapologetic  RULER– authoritative, influential, political, sophisticated, ambitious SAGE – learner, teacher, academic, analytical, wise.    TRANSCRIPT   This might be one of the shortest and most impactful podcast episodes you’ve heard in a long time.  I hope so!   Of all the topics I coach people on and that I speak about, I’d say Personal Branding, and helping people articulate or narrate their unique brand makes the biggest impact. Typically I run my coaching clients through several exercises to help them identify their unique brand, including but not limited to: seeking input from others, taking personality tests, creating your personal Venn diagram, running through mental exercises, reviewing formal work feedback and evaluations, completing worksheets that I assign, and lots more.    And of all these personal branding exercises, identifying their archetype is the one that they often tell me is the most helpful.   So I thought I’d spend an episode coaching YOU on how to identify your unique professional identity archetype, and what to do with it to help you be your happiest and most successful self. Sound good?   Welcome to talk about talk podcast episode 183: what’s my archetype. In case we haven’t met my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please just call me Andrea. I’m an executive communication coach at talk about talk where I coach ambitious executives like you to communicate with confidence and establish credibility so they can achieve their career goals. The topics I cover are all focussed on communication, including things like overcoming imposter syndrome, becoming a great storyteller, listening like a leader, nailing your formal presentation, establishing executive presence, and establishing your unique personal brand.   You can learn from me through private one on one coaching, corporate workshops and keynote speeches, the boot camps that I lead, the archive of this podcast, and through my email newsletter. If you go to talk about talk.com you can sign up for the newsletter there. It’s like getting free coaching from me every two weeks.   While you’re there on the talkabouttalk.com website, I encourage you to take the archetypes quiz. That’s the topic of this weeks episode. I’m going to help you identify which of the 12 professional identity archetypes resonates most with you and what you can do with this insight. Just go to talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz.   OK – By the end of this episode: You’ll understand the power of identifying your professional identity archetype and how you can use your archetype to accelerate your career trajectory.   Here’s how this episode will go:    First I’m going to define archetypes for you. Give you the archetypes 101 lecture.  Don’t worry – it’s brief. Then, I’ll share a list of 12 professional identity archetypes.  Your challenge is to identify which 1-2 of these archetypes resonate for you. I encourage you to do this both qualitatively – by listening to my descriptions and thinking about which 1-2 resonate with you.  Then also by taking the archetypes quiz at talkabouttak.com/archetypesquiz. This quiz is kind of like a personality test. It will help you validate which archetype resonates for you.   So Let’s start with this.   What are archetypes? Simply put: ARCHETYPES are UNIVERSAL PATTERNS. Got that? Universal patterns. Universal as in broadly understood – by many or most – as well as universal as in over time.   Many archetype researchers highlight that archetypes, these universal patterns, have been around since stories were told. Think Athenian philosopher Plato, way back in 400 B.C.  Think mythology.   If you consider the etymology of the term archetype, there’s ἀρχή archḗ, which means “beginning or origin”,[4] as in the word archaic.  And then there’s type or τύπος týpos, as in pattern or model.   More recently, just 100 or so years ago, Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung talked about how archetypes relate to our collective unconscious.  (An aside. Carl Jung also developed several other important psychological concepts such as the persona and such as extraversion and introversion. You know, at the end of every Talk About Talk podcast interview, when you hear me ask the guest expert “are you an introvert or an extravert?” Well, that’s Carl Jung too. Anyway, I digress.  But hat tip to Carl Jung.)     So Carl Jung is the scholar who established that archetypes are innate representations that universally exist in our minds. These archetypes, or universal patterns, typically come in the form of two things: characters and/or stories. And these universal patterns are commonly adopted by fiction writers, as a means to help us as readers or audiences members to make sense of the story.   Many of the papers you’ll find about archetypes identify 12 common archetypes. So why should we identify our archetype?    Based on my experience coaching thousands of executives, I can tell you that this can be a powerful exercise. First of all, people love being diagnosed.  Who doesn’t love copleting a personality test, then reading the results and thinking, WOW.  That’s me. To a T.  We feel seen, recognized. That’s a good thing.  But there’s more to this.    Understanding your archetype can help you create your narrative- you can adopt the words and phrases associated with your archetype to describe your leadership style, your personality, your values. And you can do so knowing that this description, this archetype, will make sense to others.  Based on all the research on archetypes, we know this is a universal pattern. It’s not that you’re walking up to people and explicitly declaring: “I am a Magician and a Sage!” But rather, you reference your strengths and passions in these terms/ So Archetypes can help you clarify your narrative.     They can also provide you with focus and direction. It’s not that you won’t evolve or grow, but chances are the themes associated with your archetype will describe your strengths, perhaps things you could focus on and succeed.   And last, people tell me that knowing their archetype provided them with a confidence boost!   Now, let’s get into this. Which archetype resonates for you?  We’re not all Heroes, are we?  I know I’m certainly not a hero.  But I do know which archetype resonates with me.  Do you know yours?   Before I read you the list, I want to share something important with you. For our purposes, I substituted several of the archetype labels to make them more relevant for this professional context. There are some words that, even if they accurately define us, are less suitable for our career context, I mean,.. Imagine being on a job interview and telling the interviewer that you are a “Lover.” Or “Innocent,” or even a “Rebel.” So I changed a few of the labels, without changing the main idea.:     “Lover” became “Impassioned” “Innocent” became “Optimist” “Rebel” became “Revolutionary”   The main theme for each of these remains the same.  Just the labels changed, to make them more relevant for our professional, career context.  OK – To make this easier for you, there’s a list in the shownotes that briefly describes each of these 12 archetypes.  Whether youre watching on Youtube, or listening on Spotify or Apple or wherever, just click on the shownotes and you’ll see the list there. Now I’m going to briefly take you through 12 of the most common archetypes.  And I have a challenge for you.  Listen to the descriptions and think about the extent to which each archetype resonates.     Are you ready?  OK- here’s the list – in alphabetical order:  Caregiver Citizen Creator Explorer Hero Impassioned Jester Magician Optimist Revolutionary Ruler Sage   Im going to read that list again, this time with a brief summary of how you might show up at work if this archetype resonates for you.  In your mind, for each of the 12, I encourage you to decide which of three categories it belongs.  It could be:   YES!  That’s me. Or SORT OF – that describes me sometimes Or NO – that’s not me.  I know those people, I respect those people, but that’s not me.   SO YES, Sort of, Or No.  Again, in alphabetical order:   CAREGIVER – maternal, comforting, trusted, and generous.  I’ve met plenty of physicians and consultants who are caregivers. Certainly, you do not need to be in a vocation where you are literally caring for people to be a caregiver archetype. But it’s true that sometimes our personality can draw us to a particular career. Ask yourself. Compared to others, are you a caregiver? Yes, sort of or no? next. CREATOR – think inventor, artist, designer inventive, unique, maker, and vibrant.  If creativity and expression is your default, you might be a creator. Yes, sort of, or no.  Are you a creator? CITIZEN – girl/guy next door, hardworking, friendly, down-to-earth, and loyal. Whenever I think of the citizen archetype, I always think of Michelle Obama. Think of the person that everyone wants on their team. Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no. EXPLORER – adventurous, innovative, pioneer, investigator, trailblazer, the adventurer. I remember a CEO I coached a few years ago who was definitely an explorer. In every one of his positions over the last 15 years he had pioneer ednew categories, or created new products. He was a trailblazer. What about you? Are you an explorer? Yes, sort of, or no. HERO – disciplined, inspiring, strong/brave, warrior, champion. Hero’s an interesting one. We’d all love to be called a hero, right? But there’s a specific definition here. Are you a warrior, making sacrifices on behalf of a cause? Think about people like Malala or Nelson Mandela. Are you a warrior too? A hero? Yes, sort of, or no. OPTIMIST – kind, simple, pure.  You smile a lot. You bring positive energy to meetings and your optimism is contagious.  Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no.   JESTER – humorous, comedic, an entertainer, playful and light-hearted.  I remember coaching one women who had just received a big promotion to chief of staff at her large global organization.  When we were talking about archetypes, she said “Im probably a jester, but I hide that at work.  It’s not appropriate.”  “HANG ON A SEC!” I said. Didn’t you just get promoted?  Doesn’t your booss know about your sense of humor?  Of course you dongt tell inappropriate jokes.  But having a sense of humour is a strength. You are the one who brings leveity to intenseor dire converstaions.  You know what? She felt so relieved.  I could tell by the look on her face.  And awhile later I got an email from her, saying this had changed everyting for her. She was happier and more successful that she’d ever been, mostly because she was being herself, including being the Jesterr. So are you a jester? Yes, sort of, or no? IMPASSIONED – focused on sense, relationships, memories, and inclusivity. I’ve noticed in my coaching practice that several senior HR executives resonate with this archetype. It’s not surprising. What about you? Yes, sort of or no. MAGICIAN – transformer, dreamer, visionary, an inventor, or even a spiritual guide. Don’t let the word spiritual scare you away. You might be a magician if you are focussed on change and impact. Is this you? Yes, sort of, or no. REVOLUTIONARY– radically distinct, bold, revolutionary, and unapologetic. Whenever I think about this revolutionary archetype. I remember a CEO I coached a few years ago who told me that he purposely wore a black motorcycle jacket to work on his first day. He wanted to reinforce his reputation as a rebel. Are you a revolutionary? Yes, sort of, or no. RULER– authoritative, influential, political, connected, sophisticated, ambitious. I can think of a few friends who are incredibly successful and who are senior leaders who are rulers. I remember during Covid I was running online personal branding workshops with female executives all over the world. When we got to the ruler, archetype one woman raised her hand and said in her beautiful deep voice, I believe I am a ruler! We all laughed. Yes of course she’s a ruler, it’s amazing when you read a description and you know it’s you. SAGE – learner, teacher, academic, analytical and wise. I think I have been a Sage since I was a young kid.  Whenerever we were playing “house” (like who’s the mom, who’s the dad, who’s the baby? Who’s the dog? ,I would say “I want to be the teacher.” What about you? Are you a sage? Yes, sort of, or no.   That’s it! Just 12. Sure, its just 12, but I know it’s a lot. That’s why included the list for you in the shownotes.   I mentioned that I’m a Sage.  Actually, I’m a combination of Sage and Magician. So Sage as in the learner, the teacher, the academic.  Yep. That’s me.  Also known as a nerd.   I’m also a Magician.  .  I hope to help you transform into a confident, exceptional communicator. My best day at work is when someone tells me that I helped them improve or transform.   How you should feel when you’ve effectively identified your 1 or two archetypes:  excited, satisfied,…  Stories should come easy to illustrate you in your role as this archetype This is your happy place. Benefits of identifying your archetype Help you create your narrative- you can adopt the words and phrases associated with your archetype to describe your leadership style, your personality, your values. Provide you with focus and direction Boost your confidence!   Last, I want to share three important things to keep in mind:   There is no hierarchy of archetypes. No one archetype is better than another. The Hero is no better than the Optimist.  And the Sage is no better than the Caregiver. The true power here, lies in identifying which 1-2 archetypes truly, deeply resonate with you and your true essence.  Your purpose.  Your default.  Your essence.   Your goal is to identify which 1 or 2 archetypes resonate for you. No more than two! I used to think identifying your one archetype was the goal.  But witnessed for many clients the powerful identity that can come from the unique intersection of two archetypes (like for me, Magician and Sage). If you narrow it down to 3, then I challenge you to identify which one is primary and which two are secondary. In other words, three primary archetypes is too many. Your goal is to identify your top one or two archetypes.   yes your archetype can change.  I’ve had a few meaningful conversations about this. First with UofT professor Maja Djikic, whom I interviewed in episode 157.  Then more recently with Harvard Professor Jerry Zaltman, who shared his concern with me of pigeon holing people. Yes, we evolve as humans.  We have chapters or seasons in our lives, when particular archetypes might be more resonant. Your archetypes can change.  Got that? So there is noo hierarchy of archetypes. Theyre all good. Your goal is to id 1 or 2 – not more than two archetypes that resonate for you. And yes, your archetype can change.   I should mention 1 more thing. I touched on this briefly when I was describing the 12 archetypes. Sometimes, people with a particular archetype might be drawn to a particular vocation. Like say caregivers might be drawn to nursing.  That’s an obvious example. But you get the idea. But don’t take this to mean you have to conform to succeed.  In fact, being unique can be part of your strength. Some of the most successful people in a certain vocation are successful because of something that makes them stand out relative to their peers.   And that’s the main point of this episode.  Identifying your unique strength can make you more successful and more satisfied than ever.  Identifying your archetype can help you get there.   Take the quiz.  It’s at TAT.com/archetypes quiz.   Please email me and let me know which archetype resonates for you.  And also what you thought about this podcast. I love hearing from you! You can connect with me through the TalkAboutTalk.com website, or you can connect with me on Linkedin and message me there.   Thanks for listening.  And TALK SOON! The post What’s Your ARCHETYPE? (ep.183) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Learn three ways to control your narrative and steer your professional identity. Andrea will teach you how to introduce yourself with purpose, reframe perceived weaknesses as strengths, and narrate your career transitions and your career journey. There are a million ways to tell the same story.  Why not tell yours in a way that serves you?    CONNECT WITH ANDREA  LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ Archetypes Quiz: https://talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz   TRANSCRIPT At a recent live workshop I led on personal branding, I kicked things off by sharing three definitions of a personal brand—each one packed with meaning and offering a unique perspective. I started with Jeff Bezos’ infamous definition: “A brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room.” Think about that for a moment. It’s powerful, isn’t it? Imagine the conversations happening about you—when you’re not there to guide them. Are they speaking about your leadership? Your creativity? Your dependability? That’s your brand.   Then I highlighted the definition that Seth Godin shared with me when I interviewed him for Talk About Talk episode XX. This really struck a chord. Seth says your brand is what people think you’re going to do next. Wow. Let that sink in. Your brand isn’t just what you’ve done or who you are right now—it’s about expectations, trust, and your potential. Here’s a challenge: take out a sheet of paper. In one column, write down what YOU want to do next—your goals and aspirations. In the second column, write down what you think OTHER PEOPLE expect you to do next. Are those two lists aligned? If not, that’s where the real work begins. The gap between those two lists is where your brand needs some serious attention. Back to the definitions of personal branding that I shared in the workshop.  Finally, I shared my own definition of personal branding, which isn’t just about a thought exercise—it’s about action. Here’s how I define it: personal branding is about being yourself on purpose. Being yourself—your true, authentic, unique, and best self. And on purpose—as in unapologetically, deliberately, and strategically managing your brand. It’s about being disciplined and stepping into your story with intention and owning it. One of the most powerful ways to do this is by controlling your narrative.   And that’s exactly what we’re covering today in this episode. I’m going to walk you through three impactful ways to control your narrative and steer your professional identity. Trust me, these strategies can transform the way people perceive you. Ready to get started?   Welcome to Talk About Talk podcast episode #182: “3 Ways to Control Your Narrative and Steer Your Professional Identity.”   Hi there! In case we haven’t met, I’m Dr. Andrea Wojnicki, executive communication coach at Talk About Talk. But please, just call me Andrea. My mission is to coach executives and professionals like you to communicate with confidence, establish credibility, and achieve your career goals. I’m here to help you take charge of your narrative and own your story—and I couldn’t be more excited to share this episode with you.   You can learn more about me and what I do on the talkabouttalk.com website, where you’ll find details about my 1:1 private coaching, small group bootcamps, keynote speeches, and corporate workshops. I’ve also put together some amazing free resources for you, like the Archetypes Quiz and the Personal Brand Self-Assessment. They’re all on the website, and I’ll leave links in the show notes so you can dive in.   Alright, let’s do this! Let’s talk about how to control your narrative and steer your professional identity exactly where you want it to go.   After working with hundreds—maybe thousands—of executives, I’ve identified three specific ways you can take control of your narrative in a disciplined and strategic way. Here they are: Introducing yourself with purpose. Reframing perceived weaknesses as assets. Narrating your career transitions and your career journey.   Let’s break these down, starting with the first one.   Introducing Yourself with Purpose The first and most direct way to control your narrative is by introducing yourself with purpose. Let me be clear: your self-introduction is the cornerstone of your personal brand. It’s the most direct way that you can reinforce your identity.  It’s your words, about you, from you. It’s YOUR chance to own your story and reinforce exactly how you want to be perceived. If there’s one thing you focus on to take control of your narrative, make it your self-introduction. If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you probably know that the number one most downloaded episode of this podcast is the one where I explain the three-point self-introduction framework. It’s resonated with so many people because it’s simple, actionable, and effective. In fact, I recently re-released this episode as number XXX, and if you haven’t listened to it yet, I highly recommend it. This framework was also featured in an August 2022 Harvard Business Review hbr.org article, and in 2023, it was one of the top three most downloaded articles on hbr.org. That’s how powerful this topic is—it’s a game-changer.   Here’s a quick recap of the framework. The first step is present—as in present tense. This is where you share your name and what you do. For example: “Hi, my name is Chris, and I’m the Chief Financial Officer at the bank.” Straightforward, right?   The second step is past—as in past tense. This is where you establish credibility. You might talk about how long you’ve been in your role, highlight our credentials, or talk about an award. Think about what reinforces your credibility in that context.   The third and final step is future—as in future tense. This is where you inject some energy and enthusiasm. Share a statement about what you’re looking forward to. For example: “I’m really excited to get to know you better and work together on this project.” Or, if you’re in an interview: “I’m excited to learn more about this position because, based on what I’ve heard and read, I think I’m a great fit.”   The beauty of this framework is that it’s simple, yet endlessly adaptable. And here’s the magic: within each of these three steps, you can weave in elements of your personal brand that you want to highlight. Let me show you how this works with an example.   Imagine you’re trying to establish yourself as a strong people leader. In the present step, you could say: “Hi, my name is Alex, and I lead a team of 26 in the finance department.” In the past step, you could mention a successful program you launched to develop your team’s skills. And in the future step, you could share: “I’m passionate about helping my team members thrive, and I’m looking forward to seeing them achieve even more.” See how this reinforces your strengths at every step?   Let me give you another example. This one is  personal. Often, I’m asked to introduce myself to HR leaders who are considering me for executive coaching or workshops. Before I introduce myself, I pause to think: what aspects of my personal brand do I want to emphasize in this context? Maybe it’s my academic background paired with my high energy. So, I might say something like: “People tell me that my workshops are uniquely engaging and impactful, thanks to my academic training and the energy I bring to the stage.” That’s not just an introduction—it’s a narrative that reinforces exactly who I am.   So, here’s your homework: make a list of three to five strengths or superpowers that define you. Then, depending on the context, incorporate them into your self-introduction using the present-past-future framework. Trust me, this simple exercise can do wonders for your personal brand.   Okay, that’s the first way to control your narrative. Let’s move on to the second strategy, and this one’s a game-changer.   REFRAMING PERCEIVED WEAKNESSES AS ASSETS We all have something we perceive as a weakness, don’t we? But here’s the thing: often, those so-called weaknesses can be reframed into strengths. I’ve seen this transformation happen time and again with my clients, and the results can be life-changing.   Let me tell you a story. A while ago, I met a mixed-race gentleman who shared with me how exhausted he was with people constantly asking, “Where are you from?” He was frustrated. “I’m Canadian,” he’d reply. But his grandparents were from four different continents, and that seemed to invite even more questions. Instead of letting that frustration fester, we worked on a new narrative. Now, when people ask him where he’s from, he smiles and says, “My ancestry is a mix of A, B, C, and D. I also travel extensively for work and pleasure, so I bring a truly global perspective to my leadership style.” Powerful, right? He turned what felt like a nuisance into a compelling part of his story.   Here’s another example that hits close to my heart. . I was hosting a big Q&A focussed on personal branding. A brave woman raised her hand and shared that she’s a lawyer and she’s tired of being known as an immigrant. She wanted to change her brand, but wasn’t sure how. Here’s what I said: “based on your accent, am I right in detecting you maybe from India?” “Yes,“ she nodded. “Well here’s the thing. We all have accents. They just become more noticeable when our accent is different from others around us. But your English is very clear and the research shows that as long as we can understand each other, an accent is not a bad thing. And in your case, your accent may actually be an asset” I paused. She raised her eyebrows and looked at me expectantly. I continued. “you said you’re a lawyer. What kind of law? Corporate. Where do you practice law? New York. OK. I thought about it for a moment and then I said, here’s how you can introduce yourself. “I am a corporate lawyer in Manhattan with global experience.” And here’s the thing. Your accent serves as evidence of your global experience. Now, your accent is an asset. How does that sound? I don’t think I’ve seen a bigger smile on anyone’s face. She was thrilled.   And then there’s the story of a CEO I coached. This CEO spoke at warp speed. People struggled to keep up, and they’d often ask for clarification. Instead of seeing this as a flaw, we reframed it. Now, when the CEO introduces themselves, they say, “I think fast, and I speak fast—it’s how my brain works. But please let me know if I need to slow down.” Suddenly, their rapid speech became a reflection of their intelligence and agility.   Here’s a common one: being an introvert. Now, I want to make this clear. Introverts are no worse or better than extroverts.  But I know many people who are introverts who would rather be an extrovert. My answer to that is that we should all be our true, authentic selves. And we should also control our narratives. If youre an introvert, I encourage you to steal these insights. To start, Introverts are typically fantastic listeners. So if youre an introvert, you could make this part of your brand. Or introverts could also reference the fact that while they don’t say much, when they do, people lean in to listen.    Here’s another example – your sense of humor. I’ve had a few clients who told me that they try to hide their sense of humor. One was a global chief of staff and the other was a psychiatrist. One of them referenced their sense of humour as a wicked sense of humor. They both tried to conceal their desire to crack jokes, at least when they were at work. After working with each of these individuals on their personal brand narrative, they both ended up focussing on their unique ability to bring LEVITY to otherwise negative situations and contexts. Of course, they checked their sense of humour at the door when it wasn’t appropriate. But they also had a unique talent for establishing camaraderie, encouraging joy, and like I said, bringing levity to otherwise dire situations. Suddenly, their sense of humour became their superpower. Hmm.  I love it.   Do you see the pattern here? What you perceive as a weakness might actually be your secret weapon. It’s all about reframing. So here’s my challenge for you: think about something you’ve been trying to hide. Could it be turned into an asset? If you’re not sure, talk to someone you trust. Sometimes, it takes an outside perspective to see the potential in what we’ve been holding back.   Narrating Your Career Transitions The final way to control your narrative is by owning your career transitions. Whether you’re meeting someone for coffee, networking, or interviewing for a job, how you tell the story of your career matters—a lot. And let’s face it: transitions can feel tricky. But with a little strategy, you can turn them into powerful moments of connection.   Here’s the framework I teach my clients for narrating career transitions: the 3 Ts. Talent, Timeline, and Tomorrow.   Talent: When sharing the story of their career transition, many people start with the past, and they are often negative. They start listing everything wrong with their last employer, their position, their boss, and their colleagues. Sound familiar?    Instead, start with YOU. Start with your talents and strengths. What makes you unique? What’s your superpower? This anchors your story in who you are, not what happened to you. For example: “I thrive in fast-paced environments where I can lead change.” Or: “I’ve always been known for my ability to build strong, collaborative teams.” Once you’ve established your brand, then you can start to tell the story. That’s step two.   Timeline: Next, share a tight, positive summary of your career journey. Highlight the moments that matter, but don’t dwell on negativity.    Whether you’re gainfully employed and curious about other opportunities, or perhaps you were fired, keep your messaging professional and positive, or at least neutral.  While it’s tempting, avoid blaming and avoid venting.  Do NOT criticize past bosses or colleagues.  Do NOT elaborate on your frustrations, conflicts, or dissatisfaction. And do NOT mention grievances, blame others, or share gossip.   And of course, don’t ever share sensitive or confidential information.   Instead of saying, “I left because my boss was terrible,” try: “I realized I was ready for a new challenge and decided to explore opportunities where I could grow.” Keep it concise, and keep it professional.   So you’ve nailed your Talent, and you’ve shared your Timeline. Now what?    Tomorrow: Finally, end with enthusiasm about the future. (Yes, this might sound familiar if you’ve heard me talk about the 3-point self-introduction framework!)    Share what excites you and where you’re headed next. For instance: “I’m energized about finding a role where I can drive meaningful impact and continue to grow as a leader.” Or: “I’m excited to explore opportunities in [specific field] and see where I can make a difference.”   And there you have it—the 3 Ts framework: Talent, Timeline, and Tomorrow. It’s simple, effective, and helps you own your story with confidence.   One quick note: be intentional about the language you use to describe your transition. Words matter.    The question of how you “label” your transition is significant.    Recently, I was coaching an impressive executive who resigned from his employer of over 20 years to reset and try something completely new. Unfortunately, he created a LinkedIn post announcing he had “retired.” He meant “retired from the firm,” but the hundreds of folks who commented on his post understood he was retiring from work altogether.   Oops. Words matter.   So are you taking a “sabbatical” or a “gap year”? Did you get “downsized” or were you “packaged out”? Are you “re-setting” or making a “career pivot”?  Choose terms that feel authentic but also convey strength and professionalism.   Wrapping It Up   Let’s recap. We talked about three powerful ways to control your narrative and steer your professional identity: Introducing yourself with purpose using the present-past-future framework. Turning your perceived weakness into an asset by reframing it as a strength. Narrating your career transitions with the 3 Ts: Talent, Timeline, and Tomorrow.   I hope these strategies inspire you to take charge of your narrative and step into your story with confidence. Remember, your personal brand is all about being yourself on purpose.   If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe on whatever podcast platform you use – Apple Spotify, YouTube, whatever, and please share Talk About Talk with your friends. Thanks for listening, and TALK SOON! The post 3 Ways To Control Your NARRATIVE & Steer Your Professional Identity (ep.182) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Explore five dynamic strategies to kickstart your personal brand. Learn how to craft a memorable self-introduction and articulate your unique value. Discover the art of thought leadership and its public versus private aspects. Optimize your LinkedIn presence with actionable tips for customizing your profile. Finally, enhance your networking skills with effective strategies for building quality connections and maintaining professional relationships.

Optimizing your voice means sounding like your best self – not someone else! Andrea talks with vocal coach and voice actor Claire Fry to understand why you should focus on your unique voiceprint—rather than imitating others—and how to support your voice through techniques like deep breathing and smiling. They also cover practical tips for enhancing your voice and presence in online meetings.   CLAIRE FRY LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/loudandclaire/ Website – https://www.vocalconfidencetraining.com/ Website – https://www.loudandclaire.com/ Podcast recommendation: Think Fast Talk Smart with Matt Abrahams   CONNECT WITH ANDREA  LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Newsletter:  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/newsletter/ YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ Archetypes Quiz: https://talkabouttalk.com/archetypesquiz   TRANSCRIPT   Are you ready?   Welcome to Talk about Talk podcast episode #180 – Optimizing your Voice with Claire Fry.   Claire is a voice actor and a vocal coach. In addition to having a beautiful voice and expertise on the subject, Claire is also witty and fun. Her linkedin posts often make me chuckle. Like the time she had to get her car towed and she took a selfie of her and the tow truck driver. She posted the photo of the two of them in the front seat of the tow truck, and of course, she shared some life lessons. Anyway, I encourage you to follow Claire.  You can find her coordinates in the shownotes.   You can find my coordinates there too! In case we haven’t met, my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m an executive communication coach at Tak About Talk. Please just call me Andrea. I coach executives like you to improve your communication skills so you can communicate with confidence, establish credibility, and ultimately achieve your career goals. That’s our objective. To learn more about me and what I do, head over to talkabouttalk.com where you can read about my 1:1 private coaching, small group bootcamps, keynote speeches, and corporate workshops. Plus there are a bunch of free resources, including my free communication skills coaching newsletter, and the archetypes quiz.    In case you haven’t taken the archetypes quiz yet, I hope you will. This can help you establish your professional identity. Im a Sage and a Magician.  If I had to guess, I’d say Claire is a Citizen or maybe a Caregiver, AND a Jester.    OK – in my conversation with Claire Fry, which you’re about to hear, you’re going to learn how to use your best voice. If youre like many people, you might not think about your voice. But here’s the thing: whether its online, in person or on the phone, your voice says a lot about you.    There are some relatively easy things you can do to optimize the sound of your voice. Yes, of course, there’s the importance of breathing.  Breathing is key. But there’s a lot more to your voice than just breathing, as youre about to hear.    At the end, after the interview, I’ll summarize with three important learnings that I want to reinforce for you. And you will probably be surprised about these learnings. Some mindsets and tactics that will definitely help you use your best voice.    Now, let me introduce Claire and then we’ll get right into this.   Claire Fry is a veteran voice actor with over 20 years experience, and a vocal coach with a talent is for connecting, persuading, and demanding attention with her voice. She teaches people and teams to do the same –connect, persuade, and demand attention with their voices.   Through her firm, Vocal Confidence, Claire conducts webinars, workshops, keynotes and 1:1 coaching. She trains teams and leaders across the globe at organizations including Google, HubSpot, Amazon, Apple, McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Stanford University…and many more. Her objective is to provide people with the tools to sound amazing and the confidence to sound like themselves. I love it.  – the tools to sound amazing and the confidence to sound like themselves! Here’s Claire.   INTERVIEW   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: thank you so much, Claire, for being here today to talk with me and the talk about talk listeners, about our voices.   Claire Fry: Thank you so much for having me, Andrea. I’m so excited to get into it.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Let’s start. Really, General, I’m wondering if you can share with us what you think. Some of the most important things are that we can do to improve the sound of our voices.   Claire Fry: Support, we can support our voices. So this is something that I think is so key, and people come to me because they say I want to sound more confident, or I want to sound more powerful, or I want my voice to sound deeper, and what it actually all comes down to is breath support.   So if I start from a nice deep breath, you can hear how rich and full and supported my voice sounds if I keep talking for a while you’ll hear how it starts to thin out a little bit, and now you’re getting not quite as much of my voice, and if I keep going I’ll end up in my vocal fry down here at the bottom. So that vocal fry is that telltale sign that I don’t have enough breath support for full phonation. You’re not getting my full voice. so I think so many of the things that people associate with having a good voice, a powerful voice, a confident voice. What they really mean is a supported voice. So that’s 1 of the 1st things that I work on with people is. hey? Your voice sounds different when you’ve got some breath behind it. So let’s learn how to do that.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So supporting your voice is is synonymous with putting breath behind it.   Does that just mean taking a deep breath? I’m sure it’s more than that.   Claire Fry: It’s taking a deep breath, but it’s also grounding your voice right? So a lot of the time, especially when we’re nervous. We’re kind of speaking from our throat. You can hear where I’m pushing from my throat. And sometimes when people want to achieve volume, they push from there as well. Right. We get kind of a little bit of a yelling sound, and it’s all coming from the throat versus if I put it down in my belly and use that diaphragm for support.   This is the kind of volume and power you can get from there. But it’s a much freer, more open sound. So it’s definitely about taking that time to fill up with breath beforehand. But it’s also about moving that center of gravity down into the belly, so that we’re not all up here in our throat or breathing from our chest, but everything’s sort of down and grounded and powerful.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I’m just going to take a second and say to the listeners, if you’re not watching us on Youtube. I suggest you switch over to Youtube. So you can see what Claire’s doing. She’s pointing to her throat. She’s pointing to her chest and her lungs right.   Just if you could coach us just for a minute, because, as you’re going through this, I’m thinking, well, maybe you can coach me on this right like, how do I think about my diaphragm.   Claire Fry: Let’s do it together. You want to take a few seconds. Yeah. So one hand on your belly and one hand on the small of your back, Andrea, and what we’re going to do is we’re going to breathe in, and we’re going to try and move both of those hands outward.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay.   Claire Fry: So I’m gonna be vulnerable and show you my tummy for a second. Just so you can see what I’m talking about.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love this.   Claire Fry: Hand on the belly, hand on the back. We’re breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. and you can see how both of those hands are moving as we do it, right.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yep.   Claire Fry: So now let’s kind of connect that to speech, Andrea. If I told you you’re walking along the street, and you see a friend across the street. You see me across the street, and you    recognize me, and you just yell to get my attention, you might say, Oh, hey, Claire.  give that a try. Just do that out loud.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Hey! Claire.   Claire Fry: Yeah, yeah. So where did you feel that when you just did it.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Well, I think because I was conscious of my belly, I felt my belly expand, and then I definitely felt it up here.   Claire Fry: So even just. And I’m so glad you said that, because even just doing this once, just taking the breath in gives us that consciousness of oh, wait! I’ve got all that support down there. I’ve got all that capacity down there. So when we yell, we tend to go here we tend to go, hey, Claire? So I’m going to have you do it again. But this time really focus on you can even use your hands like you’re squeezing an accordion.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay.   Claire Fry: Pushing the breath from below. So it’s more like, Hey, Claire.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Hey! Claire.   Claire Fry: Oh, nice Andrea! Nice! Did you feel that difference in how you’re using your instrument? There.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I definitely did. I was pushing my abdomen in and my back in at the same time with my 2 hands. I also felt like I might have cheated a little bit, and tried to make it sound deeper.   Claire Fry: Did you catch? I did catch that. And that’s a very, very common thing to do, especially for women who, I think, are conditioned, socialized to think of deeper voices as being associated with authority. So if you think about the voice that we put on when someone says, Oh, I want you to sound really serious, like, okay, this is my serious voice, right? Like we associate deeper voices. And and so does everybody. That’s what the studies show. Right. We associate deeper voices with authority, credibility all these things.   Claire Fry: So I’m so glad you brought that up because one of the things I work on with women is. I don’t want to pick on her specifically, but not pulling in Elizabeth Holmes right? Not doing that thing where we do like a fake deep voice to sound a little more like a dude, but instead, to keep our voice at the pitch where it wants to be, but have more support behind it right, have more of that grounding, have more of that power behind it, so that we are supporting our voice in its natural placement, and not squashing it down.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So just to paraphrase, would you agree that we can maintain our natural pitch. but improve the credibility of the sound of our voice by being more supported by thinking about about our diaphragm. and and what and what else do I need to do to to?   It’s not coming from my throat. Right? It’s coming from my abdomen.   Claire Fry: Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be about doing it in the moment. I don’t want people trying to do their job and also thinking about their diaphragm at the same time. That’s that’s a pretty heavy lift. But even just getting in the habit of taking that deep breath into the belly before the meeting. so I always say, do it on the transitions, do it before the podcast interview, do it before you press, join on the zoom, call before you step out on stage. That’s your moment to okay, right? That’s where my breath is. That’s where my voice is. And then.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Let it.   Claire Fry: Go. But we’ll kind of automatically make that adjustment.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, so this is a 1. i’m going to move my camera back up to my face and not my abdomen. This is a wonderful, I think habit for us all to acquire and adopt. before every important meeting, before I press record to record a podcast before I go into a keynote speech or a workshop, even a coaching session. Wherever you’re going into, maybe a high stakes meeting or presentation.   I already encourage people to do slow, deep breathing, and I say, particularly on the exhale. This is what the research that I’ve been hearing is inhale completely and then slow exhale. And now I will just add to that, put your hands on your belly and your lower back, and feel the expansion as you’re inhaling, and then lengthen your exhale and research shows that this actually changes your blood chemistry. Right? It makes you less fight flight, or freeze before these high stakes moments. So I’m going to try that. And I’m going to encourage everyone to do that, too.   I have another question that’s really a bit tactical, but it’s something that I, speaking of, you know, when I’m recording a podcast. I’ve heard that if you smile when you’re talking. even though it might seem silly, I’m talking into a microphone and and recording a podcast episode by myself. There’s no one else in the room that it changes the sound of your voice is that true.   Claire Fry: Yes, it’s true. You can hear it right? You can hear it on the phone with your mom, or talking to your partner from the other room like you can hear smile in the voice. It it’s the the way that the muscles engage changes the way that the voice interacts right and expresses itself so. Yes, we can hear smile where I always think we want to be careful. Especially working with women in the workplace. Is this idea of smile more. If you want people to like you to listen to you, to engage with you. Right? So smile shows up in voice. It’s not, however, the only way to in voice over we’d call it warming up your voice right? So it’s not the only way to warm up your voice. It doesn’t have to be a giant smile on your face. Some of this can be even just the vocabulary we use. We can warm up our vocabulary if we don’t feel like having a giant smile plastered on our face all the time. and it’s very easy to over index on smile really easy. So this is something I discovered Andrea when I 1st started doing voiceover because one of my 1st voiceover classes I was there in the studio and there was a group of us, and we were all doing a pampers. Commercial and person after person would get in the booth, and the director would say, Okay, now do it and smile right. This is a pampers. We need more smile great. So that’s my turn, and I get in the booth. And I put on this giant smile, and I’m like when your baby needs the best care. And it was way too much. because my voice already has smile in it. Even when I’m not smiling. That’s just part of my voice print. My voice is warm, it does have smile that’s not good or bad. There’s no value judgment there, that’s just a descriptor of what my voice has in it. So I have to be careful about not over indexing on smile, because it can get to be way too much. Really fast, right? If I add, smile on top of smiles like putting a hat on a hat. Yeah.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: It’s actually part of your personal brand is not just the fact that you’re a voice coach, but that your voice sounds happy, and you are generally a positive and happy person, so we’ll get into the personal branding. But I want to go back. You said the word warm up, and I wanted to clarify. You don’t mean warm up, as in preparing or warming up, you mean warm up as in sounding warm.   Claire Fry: That’s exactly what I mean. So like a painter would add a little bit of orange or red to warm up the tones in a painting locally. I’m talking about the things that we do, and we don’t need to get too down the rabbit hole. But there are various muscles that we use. Some of it could just be crinkling, the eyes, crinkling our eyes up creates a warmth as well as smile as well as different ways. We use it. So God, we’re talking about creating warmth in the voice.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, okay. so you were talking about the impact. That smiling, turning, literally turning, or physically, I suppose, turning up the corners of your mouth affects how your, how your voice sounds, of course, because it changes the physical structure of where your voice is coming through. That’s the non technical way of.   Claire Fry: No, this is perfect. That’s exactly it. Okay.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I want to talk about the difference between how your voice may show up, and we could get into equipment. We could get into all sorts of things online versus in person.   Claire Fry: And the smiling thing really, really made me think about this.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I watched a video of me being interviewed by someone a couple years ago, and I was like, I really don’t look very friendly.When I looked at myself really carefully, when I slowed it down, and really looked at myself carefully, which, by the way, is very painful. I was like, it’s not that I’m scowling, but I’m not smiling. And then I had this conversation with a couple of other people online. There’s the the. It’s almost like the camera reduces the the happiness of of your appearance. It makes you. It downgrades your emotional tone visually so. And I was talking to a senior executive a couple weeks ago, and he told me that his communication team told him, when you’re on camera, even when you’re not speaking. You need to be ear to ear, smiling, because otherwise you look like you’re not happy. And I said, That’s what I noticed of myself on screen as well. So I mean, that’s more of a physical appearance. Difference between on person in person versus virtually. But what about our voices in person versus virtually.   Claire Fry: No, I think that’s a direct analog. I love that. It’s a flattening medium. right? So it’s flattening in terms of visual presentation. And it’s flattening in terms of vocal presentation as well, especially if people are using second 3rd rate equipment, which is not picking up all of the tones and gradations in voice, the way that we would be able to do if we were in the room together.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay.   Claire Fry: Absolutely. I want to come back to the looking at yourself on screen thing in one second. But I’ll say for voice. people can be so much louder than they think they can. So part of that is that any piece of video software you’re using, whether that’s zoom Google meet teams, any of it all has built in limiters. which is just a way of saying it’s automatically bringing down the peaks of your voice right? So you can get so much louder than you think. It’s often louder than you would if you were in the room with these people. And the way it translates over video is as energy.   It translates as passion, engagement, excitement, right? Like all these positive things. So we feel like we’re being way, too. I feel like I’m being way too loud right now. I bet it doesn’t sound.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Not allowed no.   Claire Fry: You.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: No, it sounds like you’re excited and enthusiastic. Yes.   Claire Fry: So the software is bringing it all down. So I think people really need to understand that because I think it feels so vulnerable in some ways.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: When we’re in video calls and people just.   Claire Fry: Shrink everything about themselves right to be as neutral as possible because it does feel so vulnerable. But actually, we need to get bigger. We need to use more notes, more melody, more.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: He does.   Claire Fry: And what blessing that will be to the people who are listening to us.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Ok, so back to the point that you made before about you can always go too far. Right? You can go too far in trying to make your voice deeper in whatever we’re recommending here. That said, I. Just want to say, Claire, this insight is huge.   Thank you. So the fact that the screen and in virtual meetings, basically every way that you’re communicating, which is, I guess, auditory and visual things are flattened. So your facial expression is flattened. So smile more.   I’ve even heard that if you’re on screen you should wear more makeup than you would if right, I’m I’m seeing you nod. Okay. So, whatever whatever you normally do, you need to amplify and in terms of your voice. So this is, I guess, a segue into some recommendations that you can give to us. I’ve heard that to optimize the sound of our voice, one of the things that we can seek is variation, variation in pitch, in tone in cadence, and so on. And and I would hypothesize that you would suggest that we should do that even more. So when we’re virtual or online as opposed to when we’re in person.   Claire Fry: Absolutely cadence, intonation, just the number of notes that we are using. And again, our 1st instinct seems to be to shrink. All of that when you ask people, or when more accurately, when someone is telling themselves in their mental script, I need to sound professional. The 1st thing to go is the notes.   The 1st thing they start doing is using fewer notes and saying, This is my professional voice. This is my buttoned down, giving it to you straight. Kind of what? Right? Because it’s safe. You’re safe there. You feel safe there. But actually, it’s such a barrier to people being able to hear you follow you and engage with you because you’re not giving all those verbal signals that roadmap that helps people to follow you when you’re speaking. So we flatten it out. And it’s the worst thing that we could do. and we over. So I’m sure this is something that you’ve come across as well. This idea of negativity bias in communication.   So when we hear someone speaking and we’re not getting clues from them. From their tone of voice.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: We don’t know.   Claire Fry: They’re happy. We don’t know if they’re sad. We don’t know if they’re excited, we automatically assign negative qualities. We go. Oh, well, they’re mad at me. Oh, they’re frustrated! Oh, they’re bored, or they’re whatever right. So we need to be sending that really strong signal all the time. And I think that’s true for face as well.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay.   Claire Fry: That we need to be sending that signal all the time.   There was an interesting study that came out last year. I don’t know if you came across this that we over attribute emotionality to our own neutral face when we see ourselves on screen. Yeah, I’ve memorized that that because I wanted to get it exactly.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Say it again, say it again we.   Claire Fry: When we yeah. So when we see our own face on screen, when we’re looking at our own face, we over attribute emotionality to our own neutral face. So even when our face is actually neutral in expression we read it as emotional and usually negative.   So this is that thing where we go. Oh, why do I look like I’m mad, or why do I look like right? Right? But it’s it’s it’s a little bit in our heads, because we always have this negativity bias when it comes.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: And it might be amplified, or the effect might be exaggerated. If it’s online. Right? Was the research virtual.   Claire Fry: Yes, exactly. It was entirely virtual. And it’s why I always tell people. If they’re speaking, they should have their self view off online always.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: That’s a big tip. That’s a big one, Claire.   Claire Fry: Always, always, always. Because if you see your own face 1st of all, it’s the most distracting thing you could possibly have on your screen. I don’t care what your relationship is with your face. It doesn’t matter. You’re always looking at it right? You’re flicking over. You’re checking in. That’s taking you out of connection with your audience, which is where that attention should be. And we’re judging ourselves. We’re doing this over attributing of emotionality. We’re doing all these things, and it makes us feel like we’re on stage. It lights up the same part of your brain as if you were performing. So these are all impediments to communication. Yeah, I think.   Turn off the self view. Take you don’t need it. You’ve never walked into a conference room, sat down, pulled out a mirror, and stared at yourself.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: True. True. So so, Claire, I always adjust my, the, you know the Zoom screen or the Microsoft teams screen, whatever it is. so that I’m on the bottom, and the people the other people are at the top closer to the camera, and I and I don’t look at myself. But you’re saying, take it to the next level and just remove yourself from your view. Okay. Claire Fry: It’s easy to do. It’s just a click of a button, and everyone can see you. But you can’t see yourself but what you’re doing. Andrea is so smart when you always want to put your audience as close to that camera as possible. Right? So we get that eye contact.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. Your face right now is right below the camera.   Claire Fry: This, too. It’s almost like we thought about this check.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: That’s amazing. Okay, I’d love to dig a little bit more into gender differences. You mentioned that women in particular may try to make their voices sound deeper. I would guess men probably do too, like you said. We all hear this anecdotally in society, and it’s reinforced that we attribute deep voices to power, status, authority, all of those leadership qualities.   Right? What? What gender differences do you come across in your work with your clients that you might want to mention here.   Claire Fry: Hmm, interesting. Yeah, it’s not. It’s not a crazy thing to do right. Which is why I said before, I don’t. There’s plenty of reasons to rag on Elizabeth Holmes, but lowering her voice, is not one of them that’s completely understandable, especially if you’re working in a male dominated field because it’s true people prefer, I think, in the last 20 Presidential races we’ve elected the person with the deeper voice every time. But one or something like that, right like this is just a thing. This is a thing that we do.   So what’s a woman to do right? And you know, as you said, there are certainly men with higher pitched voices who, I’m sure, are as aware of this. But I’m going to talk specifically about people who are assigned female at birth. and therefore have smaller larynxes, smaller voice boxes. and voices that are higher pitched. So, generally speaking, there’s a little less of a resonating chamber. so we the voices don’t have quite as much power to them. We don’t have quite as much resonance to them, and we have that that slightly higher pitch. So I’m I don’t want to be boring, but I have to go back to the breath part right? Because here’s the thing. It’s it’s understandable to want to lower your voice, but it doesn’t.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: We’re.   Claire Fry: Because it’s just not how your instrument is put together. It’s trying to make flute sound like an oboe right? Like it’s it’s just not the way that it’s constructed so ultimately the thing that is going to best serve us in terms of getting heard, in taking up space with our voices, and having a level playing field with the men. is putting a little more energy behind it, a little more breath behind it. And hey, maybe get a really good microphone.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah.   Claire Fry: Right, because your virtual meetings, if you have a good microphone that’s gonna automatically bring your voice higher in the mix. So now it’s going to be more present in people’s ears? And why not take every advantage you possibly can?   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah.   Claire Fry: Yeah, in voice over, we call it cut through that quality of making people sit up and pay attention when you speak. So let’s let’s use everything like everything in our arsenal.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, I’ve been in plenty of meetings where you know I there say, there’s 5 people in the meeting and 3 people talk. And then the 4th person speaks for the 1st time, and you’re like what your brain you you just sit up and pay attention right like snap to it because. And then you say, they’re the one that has the professional. Whatever podcasting equipment, it doesn’t have to be professional podcasting equipment like, you can get a little microphone that sits on your desk on a tiny little tripod, right? And and it’ll make all the difference in the world. So that’s a great point. Yeah. so true. And I don’t think it’s as much of investment as people think right. I’m using.   Claire Fry: This is an audio technica 2020. It’s $79, and it plugs directly into the USB port of my computer, right? This is not some gigantic and no one’s dropping thousands of dollars on a Neumann professional microphone right? Like.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah.   Claire Fry: Just something simple, something.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: It’s a little thing that can make a big difference.   Claire Fry: It really does, and then it cuts down on the amount of echo in your room. Because I think this is the other thing people don’t realize it’s not about the microphone just boosting your voice. It’s about directionality. So when people are using the microphones that are built into their laptops that microphone is picking up your voice, but it’s also picking up every reflection. every echo of your voice, as it bounces around your room, and it makes it sound like we’re underwater a little bit, you know, because you work in audio as well right know exactly what I’m talking about. I’m sure you’ve had guests where you had to deal with that to some extent or another, because people don’t realize how those reflections build up so something closer to your mouth just eliminates that whole issue.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I want to shift now to personal branding, and you made the comment that your voice sounds. I think you said as if you’re smiling, it’s warm because it sounds like you’re smiling. You have a natural smile in your voice. So do you want to talk a little bit about the unique sounds of our voices, how they can reinforce our personal brand and vice versa. If we think about our personal brand and then reverse engineer.   You know the process that I take my clients through step one is articulating or creating their personal brand. So coming up with 12 to 15 themes that really resonate with them their expertise, their passions, all different types of of themes. but that are positive and unique to them. And then we shift to communication, and I talk about virtually and in person, directly and indirectly, we are constantly reinforcing, or maybe contradicting these elements of our personal brand that we’ve identified. So maybe we’ll start there. Imagine that you’ve created this brand, and you want to be seen as a strong people leader. And you have a real growth mindset. And you’re also encouraging that in others. and then you’re and then I say, well, there, there’s direct or explicit ways that you can reinforce, that when you’re introducing yourself when you’re talking about your strengths. There’s also implicit ways like your voice. Right? So how can we think about this.   Claire Fry: I think what we’re talking about here is tone. So I’ll ask you if it’s okay. I’ll ask you a question, because this will come back around, I promise.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay.   Claire Fry: One of the things that I think people think of when they think of personal brand, among other things is their visual presentation of self things like their wardrobe, and what they wear right.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: We call this, how you show up.   How you show up.   Claire Fry: I love that we need a verbal equivalent of that. How you, how you sound up, how you hear! We’ll figure.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Somebody sent me an article today that they said, What is your verbal brand? And I was like, that’s just the implicit communication that we talk about in my boot camps, and coaching all the time related to your voice.   Claire Fry: oh, I love that. I love that. So if someone were to come, to you with you know they’d, they’d gone through and created a collage of this visual style that really resonated for them. And it was extremely sleek Japanese inspired minimalist. But it wasn’t a good fit for their body type. for example, right? So there’s the brand we want. And then there’s sort of the raw material that we’re working with. I’m curious. What what advice would you give under those circumstances.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I would have gone back a step, and I would have said, You know, what are the themes? Right? So it it can include your geography. It it can include your, you know. As I said, your strengths and your passions, so I can’t imagine that you would end up identifying themes that are inconsistent with your physicality. Actually. So. So, by the way, your very question directly illustrates one of the biggest mistakes that I see people making, and it’s trying to communicate their brand before they’ve done the work of articulating it. And right they they go. They’re basically, if if you’re coming to me with your brand style guide. and you haven’t done the work of identifying what your what your brand is. You’re going to end up in trouble right? Because it may be like you, said an aspirational visual aesthetic. That really is just something that you think is beautiful, but it has nothing to do with your unique brand.   Claire Fry: Oh, that is so cool! What a cool pro! I wanna go through that process with.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, let’s do it.   Claire Fry: Quiet. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let’s do it at some point that sounds amazing.   So I think, similarly. what I think the equivalent here is that sometimes people come to me and they send me Youtube videos of Ceos. Ted speakers and say, I want to sound like that.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Hmm.   Claire Fry: Well. that belongs to them. That’s their verbal style. We cannot take that and transplant that on yours, because there are. There’s your instrument. There are physical limitations. There are all of these parts of our voice print right, and that might be things something like natural smile, or directness, or softness, or breathiness that could be an accent that could be the depth of your voice, the height of your voice, right like. There are all of these things about your voice. So rather than trying to make your voice do something like you, I always go back to the source which is the intention behind it.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Beautiful.   Claire Fry: Because what we find is that when you’re asking the right questions questions about who is my audience?   Who am I talking to? What’s my relationship to them. And what’s the main message I want to get across.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah.   Claire Fry: Your tone will follow every single time. So it’s not about creating some tone right to your point. This sort of external focused. This is what I want to sound like. It’s this is how I serve this message for these people.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yes.   Claire Fry: That’s going to be the most effective way every time. So we want to work from the inside out, not the outside in.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yes.   Claire Fry: Yeah, which I think resonates very much with what you were.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Very much, very much, Claire. I think you and I need to collaborate on this. There’s so much opportunity here. I feel like the sound of your voice, of your you keep saying instrument, the sound of your instrument as a voice could actually be, input to step one which is creating your brand. But then it also is part of step 2, right? Which is the communication. So it’s step one and step 2. I love that. That’s a that’s a big insight. There are probably other elements of your brand that are that way, too. Yeah, wow. So for example, your physical stature, right?   It is an input to your brand themes. But it also is then how you can reinforce and communicate your brand theme. So okay.   Claire Fry: And I think this speaks so much to this idea of authenticity that I think we’re always circling around in communication because people say, what’s okay? Well, what’s my authentic voice? Is that how I sound with my best girlfriends when we’re hanging out drinking wine together, and your authentic voice is not your lowest energy voice.   Do you know what I mean? Like those are not the same thing. So the metaphor I always use with people is, imagine your wardrobe so ideally. Everything in your wardrobe is something chosen by you that reflects to use your language that reflects your brand. But you’re going to pick different things for different occasions. So if you know you’re giving a keynote, you’re picking a different outfit than if you’re spending a day at the beach or going out to a concert with friends. Those are different outfits, but they come from the same wardrobe.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Beautiful.   Claire Fry: Same with voice. Right? We are using different aspects of voice that are suitable for different occasions. But it’s not inauthentic, right? That doesn’t make it fake that we’re switching our voice, depending on the context. That’s just picking the best tool for the job.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love this metaphor. I have to be honest with you, Claire. It’s the second time I’ve heard the metaphor from a guest that I respected very much. The 1st time I heard this was from Ron Tite the author of this book think, do, say, and and other books as well. He brought that up when we were talking about personal branding. I love it in the context of using your voice.    Claire Fry: I love it well, 1st of all, I need to listen to that episode because I love it right like that means there’s something true. There, if a few of us are running around and have independently come to this idea because I’m a voice actor, I use the word modulated. So it’s modulating your voice for different.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Notifications.   Claire Fry: One example would be in voiceover, we treat radio scripts really differently from TV scripts. because in television or any visual medium. our voice is there to support the visuals? We are not the main attraction, but if it’s a radio spot. our voice is the whole shebang right? Like it’s the entirety of the delivery mechanism for the message. So the way you modulate your voice is really different for those 2 media.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, before we get to the 3 rapid fire questions, I just want to conclude here by asking what I’m guessing a lot of people would would ask you in a coaching session, which is what’s the best way to prepare for a high stakes event where I’m going to be on stage. I’m saying this in in air quotes it could be literally on stage behind a podium with a mic, or it might just be standing up in front of a group. Or it might even be. you know, when you’re called on in a really important meeting with important stakeholders around. what can we do to improve or optimize the sound of our voice when we’re in particular feeling nervous and anxious.   Claire Fry: Take a deep breath.   No, I know I no, I know like trying to find. I need to go to the Thesaurus and find other ways to say, Take but take a deep. It’s that especially so. I’m going to say this. I’m going to say there’s 2 different things here. One is that if it’s something that you’re preparing for, if you are going out on, if you’re giving a presentation, warm up your voice. do a voice Warmup, do some lip trills.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Hey!   Claire Fry: Do some yawns because you’ve got your content. You’ve got your slides. It does not benefit you to keep going over it over and over again. So take a break from all of that, and just do something to get in your body and get in your voice and know you’re doing something that’s going to help you sound better.   How great is that? That’s that’s like a that’s doing 2 for the price of one when we are on the spot when we’re asked a question. You know this fight flight or freeze right? The 1st thing that happens is we feel pressure to start talking right away. And what we have to learn to do is to fight that impulse.   Hmm, okay. we feel like, Oh, someone just asked me a question. And now I have to start talking right away, or I’m gonna look like I don’t know what I’m talking about, and we end up using more words with less impact instead of taking that beat and waiting to start talking until we feel ready. So yeah, taking the beat, taking the breath and warming up your voice whenever you have a chance to do so.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love that. Okay? So take a deep breath. Trills yawns. You didn’t say, take a sip of water. I’m going to guess you assumed we were already well hydrated.   Claire Fry: I’m making that assumption. Yes.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay? And then when we when we’re in the moment, the power of pausing. And you know, I talked with someone about this recently, I said, there’s you know, this. This idea of the power pausing has become sort of a like a common thing that that people are sharing because we race to fill the silence. As you said, right, someone. All eyes are on you, and you feel like you need to fill that silence right away. Otherwise people are going to make assumptions that you don’t know what you’re saying. Blah blah! Right?   Actually, you will appear more confident if you nod and take a moment, and then people will like lean in. What is she going to say? Right.   Claire Fry: That’s the power move it really is. And then pausing at the end in voiceover we call it letting the dust settle. You know what that is, because you’ve heard it a million times. There are some things money can’t buy for everything else.   There’s mastercard right, and you give up. It’s the moment. Right? It’s that moment. And it’s so effective. And yeah, just give giving your words the weight that they deserve.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, my friends at Mastercard are going to love that. You shared that, Claire. Amazing? All right, I’m going to move on to the 5 rapid fire questions. Now, are you ready?   Claire Fry: I’m ready.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Question number one, are you an introvert or an extrovert?   Claire Fry: Oh, I’m such an extrovert, but I’m an extrovert who doesn’t love talking about myself. I’m just endlessly curious about other people, so my husband will tell you I’m a nightmare to bring to a cocktail party, because I will. Just. My favorite place is a cocktail party, where I don’t know a single person there. I just walk up to people, and I just start asking questions. It’s it’s my favorite.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay. So, Claire, I’m also an extrovert. And and most people on the podcast usually tell me that they are an introvert, but they have become more extroverted that it’s this whole thing, anyway. I love that you are. I am an extrovert.   You also, I think, have a superpower based on what you just shared, because there’s research that shows that introverts are better listeners. But you shared that. You have this innate curiosity about people. So if you’re an extrovert. You’re you’re socially comfortable. You’re getting energized by being around people, and you’re probably asking them questions and listening. Amazing.   Claire Fry: I like that framing. I’ll take that.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Tell your husband, you have a superpower. Okay.   Claire Fry: Ha! Ha! It’s true, honey, I’m not a nightmare to bring to cocktail party.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You can never.   Claire Fry: Get me out of there right? That’s the problem.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay? Question number 2, what are your communication? Pet? Peeves?   Claire Fry: I really do not like it when people read something that has been written and they throw it away. So I, for example, if you. You would never do this. But if someone gave you their introduction to read, and you’re like. so Claire Fry is a communications coach who has worked with executives from lots of right. That reedy tone of voice, instead of putting in that little extra effort to bring it to life to make it sound like your words. Yeah, it drives me crazy when people don’t put in the effort to do that and just throw it away like it’s that Yada Yada kind of cadence.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So, Claire, you’re reminding me of a question that I get a lot that I have an opinion about. But I’d love to hear yours. It’s a little bit off topic from your voice per se. But what do you say about cue cards generally.   Claire Fry: I always encourage people to work off bullet points and not word for word scripts, and this is because I am a trained professional who has been doing this for 20 years, and it’s still hard for me to make a written script sound like a real person talking. That is a hard thing to do. so I encourage people to set themselves up for a scenario where they can stay on track where they have guidance, but they can use their own words and their own attunement to the audience to deliver the message the way it’s going to best be heard.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You have no idea how happy that makes me, because that is exactly the answer that I say to the goal is not to get rid of the cue card. It’s to have the outline in front of you that you can reference if you need to. Yes, okay, okay. That wasn’t very rapid fire. But I’m really glad we went there. The 3rd and last rapid fire question, is there a book or a podcast or maybe both, that you find yourself recommending lately.   Claire Fry: Oh, that’s funny. People ask me this all the time, because everything everyone thinks I should not should have a podcast. But it’s strange that I don’t given that my medium is audio, and I do coaching. But I say, Matt, Abrahams is already making the podcast that I would make if I were to make one. So I just send people to him. So yes, the Matt Abrahams. I think it’s talk. Think fast, talk smart, yeah. fast talk smart. I just think there’s a i don’t agree with everyone he has on. I don’t even agree with everything that he says, but I just think it’s such an interesting and eclectic group of people talking about communication.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I got to get him on my podcast.    Okay, amazing.    And before I let you go, I just want to ask Claire, is there anything else you want to share with the talk about talk listeners, about optimizing the sounds of their voices.   Claire Fry: You know less about optimizing the sound of their voices, and more just an exhortation for people to sound like themselves. Hmm! Feel like that is the thing that I learned from doing voiceover training that inspired me to start this coaching practice. To begin with, which is your voice, is enough. It’s enough it is. You have everything that you need for it to do the job. You need it to do. So get out of your head. Stop worrying about what you’re supposed to sound like or what you think. Someone with this expertise should sound like and sound like yourself. but supported and strong and intentional.   Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Claire. I learned a lot, and I had fun. Thank you.   Claire Fry: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Andrea. This was such a delight.   CLOSING   Isn’t Claire great?  I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.     OK – let me summarize now by reinforcing three main learnings that I hope you’ll take away with you from our conversation.   The first is the point that your best voice is YOUR best voice. (Not someone else’s) Think about your voice print – the unique elements of your voice. Your voiceprint includes your pitch, your accent, your natural smile, your directness, your softness, your breathiness, the depth of your voice, the height of your voice, and a lot more. (Claire talked about how her voice print has a natural smile in her voice) When it comes to our voice, we want to work from the inside out, not the outside in. Instead of trying to sound like someone else, we should focus on sounding like our best self.  Hmm.  Sounds familiar.  This is exactly what I tell my clients when we’re working on their unique personal brand. Instead of copying others, focus on identifying YOUR unique strengths and passions. SO for example, when it comes to your voice, If you’re a small person, your voice will sound different than someone with a barrel chest. As Claire says: consider your instrument – don’t try to make a flute sound like an oboe.   So that’s the first thing – instead of trying to sound like someone else, we should seek to optimize our own best voice.   How do you do that?  This is the second point. Claire talked a lot about SUPPORTING our voice. This, of course, is attained through our breathe. Deep breathing. Using your diaphragm.   And depending on the context, also by smiling. People can hear your smile. You can warm up your voice with a smile. But of course, be careful you dont go too far.  Claire talked about how you can over-index on things – there’s a happy medium.    As an aside – that goes for just about all the communication skills advice you’ll hear  Sometimes it’s easy to over-index.   So that’s the second point – supporting your voice, primarily through breathe, and with other things like smiling.   The third and last point I want to reinforce is about optimizing your voice and your presence online. This was probably my favorite insight from my conversation with Claire.  We discussed several things you can do to warm up, to optimize your voice when youre in an online meeting.   The main thing to consider here is that online is a flattening medium. When we’re online,things look and sound flat. Mediocre. Audio software brings down the peaks. In other words, it makes us monotone – and that goes for both audio and video.  So – what should you do? You should amplify everything youre saying or doing online.  For example: use your voice – talk louder. Increase your personal volume. outside the context of your voice, there’s also your facial expression – Online, we sometimes read neutral facial expression as as negative.  SO what do we do?  Replace your neutral face with a smile. That’s an easy fix!!!   We also referenced a few other online meeting hacks for you: Invest in a microphone – the mic will pickup the nuance in your voice and help filter out all the other sounds around you.  This is about optimizing the sound of your voice. turn off our self-view – I LOVE Claire’s point here.  Your self-view is distracting and not necessary.  When’s the last time you walked into a meeting room and pulled out a mirror so you could watch yourself talk?  Never.  Exactly. SO turn of self-view.  Focus on others. When youre in an online meeting, put the audience (or speaker) as close to the camera as possible.  If youre on a laptop, cenre the other person or the speak\er right below the camera light on your screen.,  That way it looks more like youre maintaining eye contact.  Another easy fix!   And that is everything for this episode! Thanks again to Claire Fry.  You can find all of Claire’s coordinates in the shownotes for this episode.  And my coordinates are there too!    I’d love to hear from you. Please connect with me on LinkedIn and send me a DM there.  Or you can conta0ct me through my website – talkabouttalk,com.   If you enjoyed this Talk About Talk podcast, please make sure you subscribe. And don’t forget – you can also WATCH Talk About Talk on our YouTube channel – yes, you can WATCH the Talk about Talk podcast!     Whether youre watching or listening, I want to say thank you for being here.  Talk soon! The post Optimizing Your VOICE with Claire Fry (ep.180) appeared first on Talk About Talk.