Content and Conversation: Organic Growth Insights from Siege Media

Chris Kelly, ex-Asana growth lead, joins Ross Hudgens to break down how Asana scaled to 20M+ international SEO visits—and how to do it again in 2025. They dive into localization strategy, market prioritization, TMS tools, team structures, and how to tie international SEO directly to business outcomes. Chris also unpacks real-world mistakes, market-specific tactics, and where AI fits into future-proofing global content. Show Notes 0:08 – How Chris led Asana’s international SEO from 0 to 20M+ visits 2:12 – Aligning SEO with real business outcomes 4:27 – How to prioritize markets and go deep, not wide 6:06 – Why "strategy before scale" matters more than ever 9:09 – Centralized vs. distributed SEO models 10:13 – The localization decision waterfall: MT, native copy, or hybrid? 13:11 – Tiered frameworks for scaling efficiently across regions 16:43 – Localization teams and SEO: why they must integrate 18:05 – Market nuances: Japan vs. Germany 20:18 – The role of user research in international SEO success 22:02 – When to implement a Translation Management System (TMS) 25:33 – Real talk: the true cost of international SEO 28:18 – Mistakes to avoid: budget, ops, and lack of data 33:10 – Building the right international SEO team 35:06 – Communication tips for global collaboration 38:34 – How AI will transform international strategy and QA 42:26 – Will AI erase top-funnel SEO internationally? Show Links Chris Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherakelly/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Rand Fishkin joins Ross Hudgens to unpack the latest acronym craze—GEO, AEO, LEO—and why none may be necessary. They explore the origins of SEO, the rise (and fall) of inbound marketing, and how marketers can avoid falling into the trap of trend-chasing. From naming conventions to the real value of brand clarity, this is a conversation for anyone navigating search in the age of AI. Rand also shares a bold bet on AI’s impact on jobs, reflects on his early days in the “promised land of SEO”—and discusses why “SEO for AI” might be the clearest path forward. Plus: Cooking games, Snack Bar Studios, and whether creating a new marketing category is ever worth the effort. Show Notes 0:08 – Why SEO has too many new acronyms 0:44 – The wild origin of SEO in Bend, Oregon 1:29 – Danny Sullivan, Circuit City, and the OG SEO crowd 2:54 – Who coined “zero-click search”? 3:29 – Why naming trends like GEO can hurt clarity 5:00 – Is GEO catching on because A16z backed it? 5:59 – Should we name this shift at all? 6:37 – Why "SEO for AI" is clearer than new acronyms 8:09 – Organic digital vs SEO vs paid—don’t confuse your client 9:33 – Naming things doesn’t always benefit the person who coined it 10:13 – Why SEO isn’t in decline (despite the narrative) 11:07 – Google is still orders of magnitude bigger than any AI tool 12:34 – Rand bets \$100K AI won’t take half of all jobs 13:39 – “SEO for AI” has 100% clarity, unlike GEO or AEO 14:58 – GEO and AEO should be considered tags under SEO 16:07 – Simplifying your services for buyers: SEO still works 17:11 – SEO can carry baggage—but it’s still foundational 18:20 – Organic growth as the category; SEO as the tactic 19:03 – The Snickers bar analogy for misaligned category tags 20:01 – Why HubSpot had the power to rebrand with inbound marketing 20:54 – Applying lessons from game tagging at Snack Bar Studios 22:16 – Final thoughts: ride the wave if you’re Mars; otherwise, keep it clear 23:07 – Rand’s AI/job displacement bet explained 24:53 – Revisiting his blockchain bet with Dharmesh from 2016 25:21 – What worries Rand more than AI? Government decisions 26:14 – Elon, politics, and the future of tech influence 26:22 – Snack Bar Studios: magical boars and carbonara 26:56 – Sparktoro and “Search Everywhere Optimization” 27:03 – Tagging the cooking game: chill action, story rich, 2D action 27:51 – Geraldine’s writing brings it to life Show Link It’s Still SEO (SparkToro Blog): (https://sparktoro.com/blog/its-still-seo-search-everywhere-optimization/](https://sparktoro.com/blog/its-still-seo-search-everywhere-optimization/) a16z: GEO Rewrites the Rules of Search: (https://a16z.com/geo-over-seo/) Rand’s Game Studio: (https://snackbarstudio.com/](https://snackbarstudio.com/) Subscribe today for weekly tips: (https://bit.ly/3dBM61f](https://bit.ly/3dBM61f) Listen on iTunes: (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174) Listen on Spotify: (https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM](https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM) Listen on Google: (https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA) Follow Siege on Twitter: (http://twitter.com/siegemedia](http://twitter.com/siegemedia) Follow Ross on Twitter: (http://twitter.com/rosshudgens](http://twitter.com/rosshudgens) Directed by Cara Brown: (https://twitter.com/cararbrown](https://twitter.com/cararbrown) Email Ross: (ross@siegemedia.com](mailto:ross@siegemedia.com) #seo | #contentmarketing Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens and Drew Page sit down to unpack Siege Media’s latest study on the surprising shift in search behavior caused by AI-powered experiences and large language models (LLMs). The headline? Homepage traffic is up 10.7%—despite a decline in overall site wide clicks. They dive into the impact of branded search, the difference between B2B and B2C performance, and why your homepage might now be your most important conversion asset. From SEO’s evolving KPIs to strategies for retargeting and improving click-through rates, this conversation is a reality check—and a game plan—for marketers navigating the AI-dominated SERP. **Plus:** Siege Media’s own numbers, conversion math that makes sense of the doom-and-gloom, and actionable advice to build a brand that stands out in zero-click search results. Show Notes 0:08 – The optimism vs. pessimism spectrum in AI-driven search 0:42 – Why Ross launched this study in the first place 1:04 – From impressions up, clicks down—what triggered the deeper investigation 1:24 – Should SEO start valuing impressions like PR does? 1:51 – Why homepage clicks matter more than ever 2:29 – Branded search as the silent traffic driver 2:49 – What Siege saw across consumer & fintech sites 3:19 – Homepage impressions up 54%, site wide clicks down 4.8% 4:03 – Why that might be good news: homepage conversion rates 5:05 – B2C trends: more impressions, mixed click behavior 6:07 – B2B trends: homepage clicks up 15%, better revenue alignment 8:19 – Average position declines but branded queries still driving visits 9:36 – Seeing real value in brand mentions from ChatGPT, Perplexity, etc. 10:16 – Siege’s internal data: 30% homepage traffic lift, no pipeline drop 12:20 – Conversion math: homepage 3%, sitewide 1% 13:25 – The net positive: more conversions despite fewer visits 14:06 – Why you should optimize your homepage now 14:58 – Brand building, storytelling, and digital PR 15:46 – Homepage CTR and pricing page visibility wins 16:37 – Retargeting strategies for branded homepage traffic 17:00 – If you didn’t build a brand, this won’t help 17:44 – Aligning SEO with PPC to defend the SERP 18:25 – Communicating the impact to leadership 19:12 – Content quality still wins, even in LLMs 19:35 – Creating a brand health dashboard 20:22 – Final thoughts: conversion is the key metric, not traffic Show Links Full Study: https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/ai-homepage-traffic-increase Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

In this engaging discussion, Kevin Indig, a growth advisor and SEO strategist, delves into his groundbreaking UX study on Google's AI Overviews. He reveals how AI is reshaping user behavior and why brand trust now drives conversions over traditional click metrics. The conversation highlights the importance of trust signals, the varying effectiveness of SEO across industries, and how younger users embrace AI more than older ones. Kevin also emphasizes the need for interactive content and underscores that mediocre AI-generated material won't cut it in the future.

Ross sits down with Jess Joyce, SEO consultant at Inbound Scope, to talk about why the term "blog" is outdated—and how systems thinking, revenue-led SEO, and diagram-driven storytelling are creating smarter strategies for SaaS brands.Jess unpacks her visual-first approach to social content, explains the shortcomings of traditional keyword research, and breaks down how AI tools like Gong and Granola are unlocking insight directly from sales calls. They also explore the growing irrelevance of traffic as a core metric and why internal linking, customer pain points, and first-link architecture matter more than ever.Plus: why technical SEO isn’t dead, how to build smarter weekly systems with your team, and a hopeful rant about killing the word “blog” once and for all.Show Notes00:00 – Intro: Why Jess’s Diagrams Stand Out01:00 – Visualizing Content for Clients (And Prospects)03:30 – Why Revenue-Led SEO > Traffic-Led Metrics06:00 – What Google & AI Are Doing to Top-of-Funnel09:00 – Segmenting Content by Intent, Not Format12:00 – Sales Conversations as the New Keyword Research15:00 – Using Granola and Gong to Extract Real Pain Points17:00 – Are Keywords Dying in a Zero-Click World?20:00 – Technical SEO Still Matters (Despite the Hype)24:00 – First Links, Internal Linking & Breadcrumbs27:00 – Systems Thinking: Weekly Sprints & Triangulated Ops30:00 – Why "Blog" Is the Wrong Word for Modern Content33:00 – Enterprise Content Silos & the WordPress Problem34:30 – Where to Follow Jess & Final ThoughtsShow LinksJess’s Work: https://jessjoyce.com/Inbound Scope: https://inboundscope.com/Granola AI: https://www.granola.ai/Gong.io: https://www.gong.io/Ross’s Studio Recording: https://riverside.fm/dashboard/studios/ross-hudgenss-studio/recordings/29fbaa7c-9c87-41a0-82b0-e46416b9401d?share-token=ad8195daf09f9375064a&content-shared=recordingJess on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessjoyce_heres-how-i-would-create-an-roi-generating-activity-7295472607041138690-v4L0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAOzg8UB65a5t0zuiVlWCkdHaLrjxPPAwS8 Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross sits down with Kieran Flanagan, SVP of Marketing at HubSpot, for a deep dive into AI’s impact on SEO, content strategy in a post-search world, and the real story behind the "HubSpot traffic drop. Kieran breaks down why conversions—not clicks—have always been at the core of HubSpot’s strategy, how AI is reshaping team structures, and why co-citation and brand authority are the future of SEO. They also cover LLM optimization, the importance of tools in training sets, and what separates influential content from purely informational posts. Plus: Why lazy AI marketers will fail, what The Hustle acquisition means for HubSpot’s media strategy, and how to build long-term influence through POV-driven content. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro: Did HubSpot Really Lose 80% of Blog Traffic? 02:00 – HubSpot’s Real Metrics: LTV: CAC, Not Just Clicks 04:00 – Google’s AI & the New Era of Search Disruption 06:00 – What Content Will Be Cannibalized by LLMs 08:00 – Influence or Information: Winning with Point of View 10:00 – From Links to Mentions: Co-Citation SEO Strategy 12:00 – Optimizing for LLMs: Citations, Not Just SERPs 14:00 – AI, Brand Authority & The Repetitional Layer 17:00 – Tools, Training Sets, and the Battle of Ideas 20:00 – Inside HubSpot’s Media Play: The Hustle, Podcasts & Creators 24:00 – Why Interactive Tools Still Work (If Done Right) 26:00 – Gated Content & Moving the “Free Line” 28:00 – New Team Models: Journalists, Generalists, and Engineers 32:00 – Kieran’s Leadership Framework: Manage Problems, Not People 35:00 – Contrarian Bet: Buying The Hustle & Building Influence 38:00 – Lessons from Zapier vs HubSpot’s Go-To-Market 40:00 – Why Lazy AI Marketers Will Fail 42:00 – Is M&A Still a Growth Lever for HubSpot? 44:00 – Final Thoughts & Where to Follow Kieran --- Show Links Did Hubspot Lose 80% of Blog Traffic? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHoJMOkL6Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHoJMOkL6Y) Contrast Ratio by Siege Media [https://www.siegemedia.com/contrast-ratio](https://www.siegemedia.com/contrast-ratio) Interactive Content Data Use [https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/content-marketing-trends#interactive-content](https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/content-marketing-trends#interactive-content) The Hustle by HubSpot [https://blog.hubspot.com/the-hustle/page/1](https://blog.hubspot.com/the-hustle/page/1) Kieran Flanagan on LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan](https://linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan) 🎧 Subscribe & Follow Subscribe for weekly tips: [https://bit.ly/3dBM61f](https://bit.ly/3dBM61f) iTunes: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174) Spotify: [https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM](https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM) Google Podcasts: [https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA) Follow Siege: [http://twitter.com/siegemedia](http://twitter.com/siegemedia) Follow Ross: [http://twitter.com/rosshudgens](http://twitter.com/rosshudgens) Directed by Cara Brown: [https://twitter.com/cararbrown](https://twitter.com/cararbrown) Email Ross: [ross@siegemedia.com](mailto:ross@siegemedia.com) #seo #contentmarketing Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross sits down with Andrew Warden, CMO of Semrush, for a behind-the-scenes look at how the company has scaled past a billion-dollar valuation through brand innovation, performance marketing, and fearless experimentation. Andrew unpacks how he’s built and structured Semrush’s powerhouse marketing team, why they favor in-house execution over agencies, and how data science and AI are reshaping modern marketing ops. From viral hits like “Be Like Gaby” and “CEO Kiddos," this episode highlights what works—and what doesn’t—when building a global brand. 00:00 – Intro & Nick Eubanks M&A Stories 02:00 – Building the Semrush Marketing Team Structure 04:00 – Why In-House Creative Wins Over Agencies 06:00 – Brand, Digital, and Owned Media: Org Design Explained 08:00 – The Role of Data Science & Marketing Ops at Scale 10:00 – AI Ops: Automating for Speed, Not Just Hype 13:00 – Enterprise vs. SMB: Maintaining Brand Balance 16:00 – Big Wins: “Be Like Gaby” and User-Driven Campaigns 18:00 – When Humor Doesn’t Convert: Learning from the “CEO Kiddos” Flop 21:00 – Why Failure Is Part of the Process at Semrush 24:00 – Scaling Content: Growing the SEO Team from 4 to 40+ 26:00 – Localization: What Works, What Doesn’t 29:00 – Brand vs. Performance: How to Actually Measure Impact 33:00 – Traffic Down, Revenue Up: Moving Beyond Vanity Metrics 36:00 – What SEOs Should Actually Be Goal-ed On 39:00 – AI and Search: The Real Impact on Marketers 41:00 – Semrush’s AI Toolkit & ContentShake Overview 44:00 – The Most Underrated Features in Semrush 47:00 – Prompt Engineering & Early AI Adoption Lessons 48:00 – Conference Announcements & What’s Next for Semrush ContentShake: https://www.semrush.com/apps/contentshake/ Impress your boss commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCR5XBEM5c Semrush’s most popular campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRHG5CjsPvo Andrew Warden on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewwarden Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Chris Walker (CEO of Passetto) joins Ross to talk about personal transformation, scaling through delegation, and why most entrepreneurs are chasing the wrong kind of freedom. Chris shares insights from his month-long sabbatical, including frameworks for creating true independence—beyond just financial freedom—and lessons learned about leadership, agency structure, and internal alignment. Ross and Chris also unpack strategies for delegation, avoiding burnout, client selection, the evolving role of SEO, and how B2B companies should rethink go-to-market in a post-ChatGPT world. 00:00 – Welcome Chris Walker & “The Collision of Worlds” 00:51 – Why Bigger Doesn’t Mean Better (And Why Chris Took a Month Off) 02:05 – The Real Test: Can Your Business Run Without You? 03:09 – 10 Types of Freedom (Beyond Just Financial) 06:01 – Time, Social, Creative, Mission, Health & More 09:10 – Letting Go of the Clients That Drain You 13:07 – Freedom Through Delegation: Fake vs Real 15:05 – Why Firing Someone Might Set Them Free 17:20 – Rethinking Wealth: Why 2x More Money Won’t Make You Happy 20:00 – Breaking Mental Loops Around Growth, Suffering, and “Success” 22:50 – Why Resistance Means You’re Out of Alignment 26:00 – Layoffs, Misalignment, and Making the Hard Call 29:00 – A New Agency Playbook: 10 People, $10M 31:32 – Delegation as a Superpower (And Trap) 34:20 – Hiring Without Job Descriptions 37:00 – How Top Talent Finds You (Not the Other Way Around) 39:01 – From Fake Delegation to Freedom Frameworks 41:00 – Pattern-Matching LinkedIn Content for Real ICP Impact 43:13 – SEO Today: Outdated, Unpersonalized & Being Replaced 46:50 – Why ChatGPT over Google for User Intent 48:10 – The Case for Diversified GTM (and SEO’s Narrow Role) 50:00 – Reframing Search: It’s Not Just Google Anymore 52:20 – Personal Holdings Companies & Managing Partners 54:00 – Why Resume-Perfect Execs Often Underperform 56:00 – Agency Scale: Founder as Visionary, Not CEO 59:00 – Building the Business That Serves Your Life Chris Walker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171 Chris’s Company, Passetto: https://www.passetto.com Siege Media: https://www.siegemedia.com Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on Twitter: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Kristan Bauer returns for a deep dive into the technical and organizational SEO strategies that helped Zillow grow to nearly 2 billion annual visits. She shares tactical insights on enterprise SEO at scale, including testing frameworks, internal collaboration, indexing strategies, and what it takes to lead with executive presence in a high-stakes environment. Ross and Kristan also unpack the challenges of long-tail targeting, structuring an SEO team for success, and how to know when it’s time to build your own SEO testing platform. 00:00 – Welcome Back Kristan & The Zillow SEO Journey00:34 – From Agency to Zillow: What Made Zillow’s Traffic Explode01:09 – How Zillow Reached Nearly 2 Billion Visits/Year03:23 – The Hidden SEO Power of Off-Market Listings04:23 – Internal Linking Tactics to Boost Indexing06:52 – Long-Tail Dynamic Pages from Listing Descriptions08:44 – Managing Page Quality in Long-Tail SEO10:21 – When & Why Zillow Invested in an SEO Testing Platform12:09 – How SEO Was Structured at Zillow (and Why It Worked)13:58 – Quarterly Planning + Executive-Level SEO Visibility15:05 – One-on-One Collaboration With Other Channel Leads17:10 – Building a Culture of Shared Ownership Around SEO18:56 – Risk Management via SEO Testing Platforms20:39 – Why Testing Is a Must at Enterprise Scale22:51 – How Zillow Prioritized Smart Resource Allocation24:41 – How to Know When It’s Time to Build a Platform26:41 – Structuring SEO Inside Product vs. Marketing30:06 – How Cross-Team SEO Works at the Enterprise Level32:21 – Building Executive Presence & Communicating Up34:05 – Wins, Challenges & Transparent SEO Reporting36:00 – SEO Summits with Airbnb, Yelp, TripAdvisor & More41:00 – Final Lessons: Communication, Creativity & Big Rocks Kristan’s Website: https://www.kristanbauer.comKristan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristandaubleOur Previous Episode on Enterprise Real Estate SEO: https://www.siegemedia.com/conversation/kristan-bauer Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes Eli Schwartz, author of‬‭ Product-Led‬‭ SEO‬‭ , to unpack the evolving‬ role of SEO in a world shaped by AI, shifting perceptions, and organizational‬ challenges.‬‭Eli dives into why SEO is being deprioritized, what companies are getting wrong,‬ and how product-led SEO is the path forward.‬‭They cover layoffs, agency churn, the role of growth teams, and why most‬ companies‬‭ shouldn’t‬‭ do SEO at all.‬ ‭ Show Notes:‬‭ 00:00 Welcome Back Eli & The Current Pulse on Search‬‭ 00:53 Marketing Layoffs & Volatility in SEO‬‭ 02:31 Why SEO Struggles to Defend Its Value‬‭ 05:49 AI Search vs Traditional SEO — What Actually Changes?‬‭ 07:58 Are We Just Rebranding SEO?‬‭ 09:27 Visibility, Links & Human-Like Search Engines‬‭ 12:50 The Problem With “AI SEO” Hype‬‭ 14:45 Why Edge Case SEO Will Die Fast‬‭ 18:19 Why “Technical SEO” Isn’t a Moat Anymore‬‭ 22:06 The AI Content Misstep: Spam at Scale‬‭ 24:27 The New SEO: Blending Human + AI + Product‬‭ 28:11 Your Product Has to Be Good Now — Period‬‭ 29:20 Revisiting the Book: What Eli Would Update‬‭ 30:20 The Spicy Take: Most Companies Shouldn’t Do SEO‬‭ 35:03 How to Evaluate if SEO is Right for You‬‭ 38:45 The “Tax Preparer” Problem With Agencies‬‭ 41:06 If You’ve Fired 3 SEO Agencies… It’s You‬‭ 43:20 The SEO Funnel Needs the Right Org Buy-In‬‭ 46:01 Growth & Product Titles Are the Key‬‭ 47:28 The Sales Enablement Side of SEO‬‭ 50:30 Content Strategy vs Keyword Volume Obsession‬‭ 51:40 The Non-Apocalypse of AI‬‭ 55:04 The Real AI Shift Will Be Gradual‬‭ 56:01 How to Actually Execute Product SEO‬‭ 59:49 Final Thoughts & Where to Follow Eli‬‭Show Links:‬Eli’s Newsletter:‬‭ https://www.productledseo.com/‬Eli’s Book on Amazon:‬‭ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091D572ZL‬Eli on LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze‬‭‭‭ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing