BRAVE Southeast Asia Tech: Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand & Malaysia Startups, Founders & Venture Capital VC (English)

Jeremy Au reconnects with Kwok Jiachuan, his first-ever podcast guest, to reflect on their journey from school friends to army roommates to co-founders of Conjunct Consulting. They talked about the challenges of starting and scaling a social impact consultancy, from early skepticism to securing funding and navigating the evolving nonprofit landscape. They also discuss leadership lessons, the importance of sustainability, and how their work has shaped the next generation of social impact leaders. The conversation is a candid look at what it takes to build something meaningful and why community matters. 1. From friends to co-founders: Jeremy and Kwok first met at 15 in a creative arts camp, later became army roommates, and eventually teamed up to build a pioneering social impact consultancy. 2. Solving a gap no one else saw: They realized nonprofits lacked strategic help while young professionals wanted to contribute, so they created a platform that connected both. 3. Facing doubt and rejection: People dismissed their idea, fundraising was tough, and they had to figure out everything from legal structures to convincing nonprofits to trust them. 4. Turning a passion project into a real business: What started as a volunteer effort had to evolve into a structured, financially sustainable social enterprise to survive long-term. 5. Adapting to a changing landscape: The social sector professionalized with more government funding and consulting firms entering the space, forcing Conjunct to evolve its role. 6. A legacy that lives on through people: Alumni have gone on to lead impact-driven initiatives, and Tribe Consulting, founded by former members, continues the work they started. 7. Lessons for future changemakers: Passion alone isn’t enough—build for sustainability, find allies in the ecosystem, and focus on long-term impact. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/social-entrepreneur-wisdom Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Mike Michalec shares his journey from molecular research to outdoor adventure guiding and eventually into education consulting in Southeast Asia. He discusses the region’s diverse education landscape, the challenges of scaling edtech businesses, and the impact of China’s regulatory crackdown on the sector. He explains why many education startups fail, how funding and business models shape the industry, and why Chinese companies are now expanding into Southeast Asia. He also shares his thoughts on technology and children, emphasizing the importance of balancing screen time with real-world learning experiences. 1. Mike’s career pivots: Mike started in molecular research but left the lab for outdoor adventure guiding before becoming a science teacher and later moving into international development and education consulting. 2. Why he moved to Southeast Asia and stayed: He first came to Bangkok in 2007 for a short-term UNESCO assignment, initially expecting to be in Paris, but decided to stay in 2009 due to the region’s diversity and opportunities in education. 3. Education in Southeast Asia: A fragmented but dynamic market: The region has vastly different education systems, from strong public education in Singapore to accessibility issues in rural Indonesia, with a mix of public, private, and international models. 4. Why Edtech startups struggle to scale: Many Edtech founders enter the market without realizing similar solutions already exist, and education’s highly localized nature makes scaling across countries far more difficult than in other sectors. 5. How China’s crackdown changed its edtech sector: In 2021, China’s Double Reduction Policy forced major tutoring firms like TAL Education and New Oriental to go nonprofit, leading some Chinese edtech companies to expand into Southeast Asia. 6. The impact of AI and technology in education: Mike believes edtech is already "solution-saturated" and that the industry should focus on improving existing products rather than creating new ones, citing research he contributed to from the World Bank and Omidyar. 7. Technology and kids: He supports limiting screen time for young children, noting that many Silicon Valley tech founders do the same, emphasizing the importance of real-world learning and human connection. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/vc-education-tech-gamble Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Jeremy Au discussed key aspects of venture capital decision-making and tech regulation including how VCs make sequential investment choices, navigate acquisition offers and public listing routes, and address regulatory challenges. He also examined how customer advocacy and jurisdictional differences shape tech policy, while debating the trade-offs between asking for permission versus seeking forgiveness. 1. Sequential Investment & Timing: VCs re-evaluate decisions over time, balancing past rejections with new opportunities. 2. Acquisition Offers & Public Listings: Companies with similar acquisition terms can choose different paths, and public offering routes vary widely. 3. Regulatory Environment & Legal Lag: Laws only regulate what exists, leaving tech companies to navigate gaps in regulation. 4. Permission vs. Forgiveness: Startups must choose between seeking approval or risking later consequences based on local rules. 5. Customer Advocacy & Jurisdictional Impact: Mobilizing customers can influence regulators, and success depends on local political and legal climates. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/vc-decision-making-playbook Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Yuying Deng, CEO of Esevel, and Jeremy Au talked about Esevel’s IT service business evolution over the past few years. They trace the journey from handling simple device procurement in Southeast Asia (with a focus on Singapore, India, and Indonesia) to offering full IT life cycle management and cybersecurity support. They also discussed how customer feedback and real pain points drive service expansion, the importance of a targeted sales approach, and the need for clear leadership and delegation, especially for companies with 200–300 employees. They share personal insights on balancing startup life with parenting, noting that Yuying started her first company when her daughter was just two. 1. From Procurement to Full IT Support: Esevel began by helping teams in the APAC region procure IT devices and later expanded to include device setup, repair, offboarding, and cybersecurity support. 2. Customer-Driven Service Expansion: Feedback from clients in regions like Singapore, India, and Indonesia pushed the business to grow step by step beyond simple procurement, meeting broader IT management needs. 3. Targeting Clients at Their Peak Pain Points: The most effective sales approach emerged by reaching out when companies faced high-stress moments such as during rapid overseas hiring or critical IT issues. 4. Building Trust Through Incremental Engagement: Clients initially engage with low-risk services and, over time, entrust the company with more complex IT functions, proving that trust is built gradually. 5. IT & Cybersecurity Standards: Yuying emphasizes the importance of certifications like ISO 27001, SOC2, and GDPR to secure client trust, satisfy insurers, and mitigate risks. 6. Effective Leadership Through Delegation: Yuying learned that trying to do everything herself was unsustainable. For companies with 200–300 employees, delegating to trusted team members is key to growth. 7. Balancing Startup Life & Parenthood: Drawing a parallel between raising a child and building a company, Yuying noted that starting her first company when her daughter was two taught her the value of clear goals and simple focus. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/yuying-deng2 Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Mohan Belani, CEO and Cofounder of e27, and Jeremy Au talked about how the Southeast Asia startup scene has transformed over the past decade, including the shift from early-stage exuberance to a more cautious, capital-efficient mindset, and citing specific cases like eFishery and Carousell. They touched on regional challenges, with markets as different as Singapore, Indonesia, and Malaysia, while urging investors to adopt a more hands-on, private-equity approach. They highlighted the importance of personal growth, and they advocate for curiosity and balance in leadership. 1. Southeast Asia Startup Ecosystem Evolution: The early days (2010–2015) were marked by wild “what if” dreams and a Silicon Valley mindset. By 2014–15, that excitement had given way to healthy skepticism. 2. Investor Caution: Cases like eFishery, which raised over $100M, show that excessive capital without sustainable growth can backfire. 3. Founder Maturity: Founders now, often serial entrepreneurs, are more experienced, with clear goals, as seen in companies like Carousell. 4. Regional Challenges: Scaling is tough when starting in a strong market like Singapore and expanding into countries where purchasing power drops (e.g., to Indonesia where GDP per capita is 10× lower, or Malaysia where GDP per capita is 5× lower). 5. Shift to a PE-Style Model: There’s a growing call for VCs to be more hands-on and adopt a private-equity approach to drive liquidity and realistic exit strategies. 6. Exit Realities: While VC valuations can be 10–20× revenue, public listings in Southeast Asia often fetch around 1× revenue, highlighting a significant exit gap. 7. Personal Growth & Leadership: There’s a need for curiosity and balance—staying childlike in innovation while being pragmatic—to solve problems and build great companies. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/southeast-asia-startup-evolution Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea Spotify English: https://open.spotify.com/show/4TnqkaWpTT181lMA8xNu0T Bahasa Indonesia: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Vs8t6qPo0eFb4o6zOmiVZ Chinese: https://open.spotify.com/show/20AGbzHhzFDWyRTbHTVDJR Vietnamese: https://open.spotify.com/show/0yqd3Jj0I19NhN0h8lWrK1 YouTube  English: https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyAu?sub_confirmation=1 Apple Podcast  English: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/brave-southeast-asia-tech-singapore-indonesia-vietnam/id1506890464

Jeremy Au explored the strategic dynamics of venture capital, network effects, and first-mover risks in technology markets. He illustrated how Uber outmaneuvered Lyft by aggressively raising capital to fuel network effects, while Airbnb achieved superior capital efficiency through globally pooled inventory. Using the case of Henn Tan, the Singaporean inventor of the USB thumb drive, he highlighted the vulnerabilities of weak patent enforcement and the unintended benefits of fast followers in driving mass adoption. He also examined how VCs allocate capital, using Instacart’s funding history to demonstrate the high returns of early investors versus the diminishing gains of late-stage backers. Through the lens of blitzscaling, he emphasized the importance of understanding unit economics—where strategic capital deployment can lead to market dominance, while miscalculations, as seen in the failed bike-sharing boom, can result in rapid collapse. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/blitzscaling-strategic-capital-deployment Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Jeraldine Phneah, Content Creator & Account Director of one of the top AI SaaS companies, and Jeremy Au discussed: Journalism to Enterprise Tech Sales: Jeraldine studied journalism and public policy but pivoted to enterprise tech sales in 2016 for financial stability, future-proofing, and work-life balance. Initially hesitant, she realized B2B SaaS focused on problem-solving and improving efficiency and saw how technology streamlined workflows and freed up time. Her role involved research, contract negotiations, and internal coordination. The job provided autonomy and senior client exposure but came with high pressure, performance scrutiny, and a drinking culture. Sales remains an unconventional career in Singapore, where government and engineering roles are more common. Establishing credibility was an added challenge, as leadership and client interactions were largely male-dominated. Sales Gender Bias & Online Scrutiny: She encountered gender biases ranging from inappropriate client remarks to doubts about her competence in tech sales. Raised by a father who championed gender equality, she expected fewer barriers but found workplace realities different. While tech firms promoted inclusivity, biases emerged in external client interactions. Sales leadership remained male-dominated, making credibility harder to establish. Content creation brought harsher gendered criticism, with scrutiny often shifting from ideas to appearance, something male creators rarely faced. Adjustments like neutral-toned attire and refined messaging helped manage perceptions. Unlike in sales, where company policies offered some protection, content creation left her exposed to unfiltered public backlash. Online Discourse Shifting Norms & Content Creation: A 2015 blog post about Lee Kuan Yew’s legacy sparked backlash due to timing and tone, shaping Jeraldine’s approach to content. She learned that framing and sensitivity mattered as much as the message. The digital landscape made past content permanent, increasing scrutiny on young creators. Singapore’s online discourse favors diplomacy over confrontation, unlike Western norms. She and Jeremy reflected on how younger generations now curate their digital presence more carefully and how content creation remains a powerful tool, but requires balancing authenticity with audience perception and societal expectations. They also discussed Singapore’s rising cost of living, the shifting housing market, workplace well-being, the role of private universities in career progression, and how cultural norms influence leadership and communication styles.  Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/jeraldine-phneah2 Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Shiyan Koh, Managing Partner of Hustle Fund, and Jeremy Au discussed: 1. Trump’s Economic Policies, Tariffs & Crypto Initiatives: They examined the economic impact of Trump’s 2025 return, including a 10% tariff hike on Chinese imports and new tariffs on Canada and Mexico. The administration also ended the de minimis exemption for low-cost e-commerce imports, affecting platforms like Temu and Shein, which had relied on duty-free shipping to US consumers. These changes disproportionately impacted lower-income Americans, despite cost-of-living concerns being a key election issue. Canada and Mexico secured a 30-day tariff delay, while Trump also launched Trump Coin and proposed a US Bitcoin reserve, signaling a pro-crypto stance that could draw US crypto firms back onshore. 2. DeepSeek & US-China AI Dynamics: They discussed the launch of DeepSeek-V3, a Chinese AI model matching GPT-4 but with lower training costs, which Jeremy called a “Sputnik moment”. The model’s success exposed the limits of US chip export bans, as Chinese engineers developed efficient AI training methods despite NVIDIA H100 restrictions. DeepSeek’s open-source availability via Hugging Face complicated regulatory enforcement, leading US Senator Josh Hawley to propose severe penalties, including 20-year prison terms for users and $100M fines for corporations. Meta’s AI lead, Yann LeCun, framed the issue as a debate between open-source and closed-source AI rather than a purely U.S.-China rivalry. 3. Grab-GoTo Potential Merger: They revisited ongoing Grab-GoTo (Gojek) merger talks, noting that Grab’s stronger financial position made it the likely acquirer. While Singapore’s regulators were expected to approve the deal, Indonesian authorities might impose conditions such as fare caps or job guarantees to prevent monopolistic practices. Reduced competition could push ride-hailing fares higher, with some Singaporeans already shifting back to public transport as Grab’s peak-hour prices reached $40. SoftBank, a major investor in both companies, had long pushed for consolidation, and with Gojek’s founding team no longer involved, negotiations had become more financially driven. Jeremy and Shiyan also discussed Waymo’s self-driving taxis and their potential impact in Southeast Asia, Singapore’s emphasis on “future-proofing” careers versus the US culture of embracing disruption, and how US trade and AI restrictions are accelerating Chinese firms’ shift towards Southeast Asia and the EU. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/deepseek-and-us-china-ai-race Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Adriel Yong, Orvel Venture Partner, and Jeremy Au discussed: How eFishery Fooled Investors: They examined the elaborate scheme that allowed eFishery to inflate revenue and mislead major investors. They broke down the warning signs, such as financial irregularities, CFO departure (similar to Zilingo failure signal) and too-good-to-be-true business model that were ignored until it was too late. Informal Business Practices: They discussed how informal business practices in Indonesia contribute to the perpetuation of fraud by senior executives. Adriel shared stories of where kickbacks, inflated supplier numbers, and fraudulent financial reporting were common. They noted that many investors struggle with due diligence in Southeast Asia because operational transparency is often low, and cash-based businesses make fraud harder to detect. They contrasted the startup environment with family-owned businesses, where profitability and dividend payouts serve as stronger incentives for financial discipline. Jeremy explored why foreign founders often exit Indonesia due to ethical dilemmas. Agritech Future: With eFishery’s implosion leaving a gap in the market, they analyzed whether competitors will rise or if investor confidence in the sector has been permanently damaged. They debated whether eFishery can stage a recovery similar to Luckin Coffee in China, or whether the board will write off the investment. They acknowledged the chilling effect the scandal has already had on future investments in Indonesia, agritech and Southeast Asia. Jeremy and Adriel also discussed prior fraud cases, ethical business executives and board governance. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/efishery-agritech-implosion Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts

Viktor Kyosev, Chief of Staff at Docquity, and Jeremy Au discussed: 1. Navigating Startup Failure: Viktor shared his experience as a founding team member of Greenhouse, a premium coworking space startup in Indonesia. Faced with declining performance during the COVID-19 pandemic, the company went through layoffs and failed pivots before he made the difficult decision to shut down operations. He reached consensus with co-founders and investors, stressing the need for clear decisions and good communication with all involved. The closure process, prolonged by Southeast Asia’s regulatory hurdles requiring up to five years for dormancy and proper shutdown, highlighted the challenges of operating in emerging markets. 2. Greenhouse Founder to Docquity Chief of Staff: Following Greenhouse’s closure, Viktor joined Docquity as Chief of Staff, and leveraged relationships built while Docquity was Greenhouse’s largest customer. He shaped his role based on his entrepreneurial background, given the trust between both sides. The transition from founder to employee required him to adapt to organizational dynamics, build internal credibility, and lead without formal authority. He highlighted the challenge of managing his ego and shifting focus from individual decision-making to team-oriented contributions by aligning with larger organizational goals and applying lessons from his startup experience. 3. Southeast Asia Startups Integrity Risks: They examined how competitive pressures and Southeast Asia’s complex regulatory environment create opportunities for ethical compromises. Viktor discussed how unchecked ambition and overconfidence can lead founders to bend rules, especially when faced with financial constraints or performance targets. He also emphasized that long-term success depends on strong governance, trust with investors, and adherence to ethical boundaries. His experiences underscored the importance of balancing innovation with integrity to maintain sustainable growth. They also discussed the role of external-facing positions in building strategic networks, the impact of serendipity in career transitions, and how understanding personal insecurities can help leaders navigate challenges and maintain resilience. Watch, listen or read the full insight at https://www.bravesea.com/blog/viktor-kyosev Get transcripts, startup resources & community discussions at www.bravesea.com WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VakR55X6BIElUEvkN02e TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremyau Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremyauz Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bravesea English: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Bahasa Indonesia: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Chinese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts Vietnamese: Spotify | YouTube | Apple Podcasts