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Contact Richard Starkey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardstarkeyyves/CronosNow: https://cronosnow.com/meet-the-team/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:05)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I'm happy to bring you episode 58 of our series today. We welcome back Richard Starkey, serial entrepreneur, digital nomad and one of the first guests we had on our show. He talked to Mitch again this time explaining his shift in business focus and highlighting the benefits of being a digital nomad. Richard's first episode remains one of the most popular in our series and we're sure the second one will be just as well received. Let's go to the conversation now.  Mitch: (00:42)The last time we spoke, you talked about how CronosNow automated a lot of accounting services. I know we've kind of focused on the small to medium size businesses, entrepreneurs, the opportunity that you recognize since that conversation. How is your business focus really changed?  Richard: (00:58)I think it's been quite an interesting journey because we've landed up actually never in our niche quite a bit and that's been driven by our marketing. As I personally have learned more about marketing, which is key to any digital nomad will you, if you can't market online, you can't fit an income and the other aspects is also just increasing the speed at which we learn about the new systems that we implement and the way we implement them for clients has become a lot less so we can, we can implement a new system in a fraction of the time compared to what I thought we would be able to even even a couple of months ago. So I think we've learned to kind of be the monster of a very small niche. We get things done quickly and marketing that niche in a much more effective way. How clients get the gains because we are able to pass a lot of the cost savings along to them. but also we get to keep up what are those gains, which means we're more profitable on net space that we make and I just, I've learned in that space that's as an accountants and I think I might be, I'm definitely going to generalize in my next statement, but we do have a tendency to overcomplicate things, right? And the tail wagging the dog as aware. And I've just really learned about the importance of the principle that it 80-20 rule and the reality that although accounting is incredibly important to us and perfectionism in that space, it's quiet, quite difficult to overcome for most of our clients are entrepreneurs. You know, the accounting and back office function is never going to be something that turns them on and gets them excited. Right? It's something, it has to be done and only if it becomes an absolute priority if something's going wrong. Mmm. So yeah, it's been a very interesting, especially in the digital nomad world because that's what we are, my wife, myself, our staff. But that's what our customers are.  Mitch: (03:07)And I just want to kind of clarify something for our listeners too. You mentioned the principle and 80, 20, you know, what in your opinion, is the end goal of following this principle? You know, what are you actually trying to accomplish?  Richard: (03:21)The end goal is that we need to deliver on an objective. So obviously it's about fitting the objective correctly, but that 80 20 rule for us as accountants means that we, we actually deliver it. We don't land that we're running over budgets. We don't run into never, never systems that never end. So it's about delivery and efficiency in that delivery.  Mitch: (03:44)So I think, you know, being in this technologically advanced, you know, business environment, having the opportunity to really complete, I know what you said about 80% of what you're looking for with automation. So roughly 20% of the time, you know, that's where the cost savings comes from that you were referring to, right?  Richard: (04:04)Oh yes, absolutely. So I think there's the kind of sets, the 80% of aim to deliver the 80% in the 20% time. And then along with that, the, another application of principle, which we've discussed previously, is looking to automate, a lot more of the FM cost. So if we can achieve 80% of what we want in terms of automation with 20% of the FM costs, well, I mean we have to let go affection as tendencies and deliver on what the customer wants because ultimately the customer also one better to lower costs. So you can deliver 80% with automation, with 20% of the efforts. Why not?  Mitch: (04:54)That's perfect. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, we kind of clarified that and know another, the term that you've referenced now is the digital nomad. And I know, you know, I've done a little bit of research on this and my understanding is it's essentially someone working exclusively online. So I just wonder if you can kind of expand on that a little bit and tell us what that really means to you and for your firm.  Richard: (05:21)So first of all, I agree. And in terms of the simpler kind of view of the term digital nomad. It's all about somebody can work online. but for me it goes a bit deeper. It's about, about having freedom rights. So it's, we can work. My staff, myself, my wife we work from wherever we want in the world. So we have freedom in terms of location and to large extent, we also have freedom in terms of time. So yeah, we could be working and we've done this quite recently, sitting on a beach in Cape town, you know, I'm sitting with a non alcoholic beverage while we're doing our work, but that's, we could just as easily be sitting in a coffee shop. So that ability to work online and deliver the same results, but actually at a lower cost is what drives our effectiveness in the, they're just from nomad space, if that makes sense.  Mitch: (06:20)Yeah, that's great. And I am quite envious of sitting on the beach in Cape town. I think that sounds like a great place to work. but I know, you know, you're not the only one. And what I mean by that is many businesses are going online, a lot of client services are being provided remotely. So I'm sure you can speak to this better than I can, you know, what are some of the challenges of working in that kind of environment?  Richard: (06:45)Ah, so I think there's quite a few challenges that come with it. I'm far outweighed by the benefits, but some of the challenges if I talk about it from an accounting practice perspective is that a lot of our clients, sometimes we'll battle with the technology for communication specifically. So yeah, you and I might be comfortable on zoom. Another of customer might understand Google and other one might know Skype. And this is actually quite a geographic thing, which is interesting. And learning when we actually just got to pick up a phone, for seven clients. so I think the, the challenges really come down with your client's comfort with the technology that you use. And I'm also seeing a shift in order to make that easier, which is really a way of overcoming some of these challenges is I'm really enjoying the shift to single sign on, across devices. So, you know, sign in wi...

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. As we've said in previous episodes, IMA is here to support the profession through a variety of resources to keep management accountants connected during this time and a portion of our profession that has been significantly impacted by the movement to remote work due to the Coronavirus is the accounting academics. Yesterday, as of the release of this episode, I may presented a webinar on tips and strategies for effective online education. To further meet the needs of our members and our extended listeners. We would now like to share this bonus podcast, episode four leading remote learning and managing online students. Adam spoke with Wendy Teitz about what can be done to better transition and in-person curriculum to an online one and facilitate these online classes. Wendy is an accounting professor at Kent state university and a veteran to online teaching to help others who may not be. She shared some very timely advice as she walked Adam through lessons she's learned along the way. Let's head over to their conversation now.  Adam: (01:14)Wendy, thanks so much for coming on today. We really appreciate you coming onto the podcast. You've been a professor for a while and you've taught classes in person and online and with the state of the industry and everything that's happening with the pandemic right now, a lot of professors are being thrown into, becoming online professors now. And what advice would you give to somebody just starting out?  Wendy: (01:35)Okay. I would tell them to take it slow, do a little bit at a time. Right now it's a big order to say, oh, convert to online in the next three days. So take it day by day. You'd know that you're going to make mistakes. The big thing is to be flexible with your students. Be flexible with yourself and know it's not going to be the best experience for everyone. But that's okay. So the primary concern is that we're all safe and healthy and that our students education continues.  Adam: (02:10)I think that's great. So I know each college probably has their, has different technologies that using. What are some technologies that you have used that have been successful for you?  Wendy: (02:22)Well, I have a large class. So before this pandemic hit, I was teaching classes. I have between four and 600 students a semester. And my students have the option to attend class in person so they can in a traditional environment just like you picture. But then I also have an option for students to attend live online where they can see the screen, they can hear my voice, there's a chat room and they can ask questions. So kind of webinar style. And then the third option is they can view the recording for the day and then answer the questions on the recording. So I have done that for several years. So when the order came to shut down, classes, I was probably impacted less than anyone else because I have the infrastructure. So I have, over the years I, I've developed the delivery online and recording simultaneously. But I also do things like I do record step by step tutorial videos so students can learn at their own pace. I've also done, I do a variety with different social media. so for a couple of years I did Snapchat where I would show examples in real life of what we were studying in class. I've done Instagram way back when. It was just beginning. I did Facebook groups. and most recently I started at group me. And this was in reaction to the pandemic that we're trying to reach out to students because now no one has the social system that they had before. So now I'm trying to reach students and make it more personal experience because so much during the regular semester you see students in person, you know that they're seeing each other. They may be watching the class together in their dorm lounge, but now everybody's their own little Island. But over the years I've also used, I also use polling software and I can continue to do that online. That's not an issue because I want the students to engage with me. So my class is not simply broadcasting videos but engaging with me and I'm using all those resources that I can leverage into the class if there's a valid reason for it.  Adam: (04:45)You know, I like the idea you mentioning of finding ways for the students to connect to each other. Are there any other ways that you're doing to kind of help create that community that the class that the class usually creates for people create study groups and they, they look at things together. What are some other ways that you're helping that the, the class kind of build that community?  Wendy: (05:04)Well, since the pandemic occurred, I did start the group may, which is a mobile messaging platform. So I've had several students join our group, me and that way they can ask me questions faster and then I can reply and then they can find other people in the class that maybe they want to form their own electronic groups with. So I'm trying to facilitate that. I'm also in, normally during the academic year, we have a chat room, every class day and my graduate assistant monitors the chat room and she will answer any questions. And during a regular time, non pandemic, I always say keep the chatter down in the chat room. It can only be on topic and because things were normal. But now that everyone's all over, I have students all over the country now and I feel like everyone's all by themselves. We are making a real effort to in that chat room start asking students questions like, how are you doing? Or where are you right now? What's happening in your classes? So my graduate assistant has instructions to try to chat with students and we're getting some success there. One thing that started a conversation, the chat room was Monday, I was talking about property, plant and equipment and I wanted to show how land and a house are two different entities. And so I put up a picture of this old Victorian house that happens to be in the city of Kent and put it up and started talking. And all of a sudden in the chat room, one of the students was saying, OMG, OMG, OMG, that's my house and here, she lives there. So she hadn't really talked much all semester, but now she's like, Oh no, that's my health. That's where I live. I'm not there now. But it was really interesting cause then other students start asking and there was a conversation going. So we're trying to build the sense of community even though halfway through the semester everything changed. And then, another thing that I did is Monday, Snapchat had a filter where the filter, I took a picture of my cat cause who doesn't take pictures of cats. I took a picture of my cat wanting to send a Snapchat to my children. And so the filter was my work at home coworker and I thought, Oh that's funny. So I thought, well let me give it a try, put it in my slides for the day. And I introduced my cat to my students and said, send me your own pet pictures so I can feature them. And I got a bunch of pet picture between Monday and today. I just got some pictures today and I continuing to get pictures. So that seems to be a way that they're communicating with me. And every time a student sends me a picture, they sent me a little note about what's going on. So I'm hoping that's me to them, but I'm hoping that I can be a little more personal for them. Then I feel like we really have to work hard to make school feel more personal than just this is my computer...

Heather's article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/6-tips-new-remote-worker-heather-fletcher/Heather's Linktree: https://linktr.ee/heavenhealing FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Hey everybody. Welcome back for another bonus episode of Count Me In. I'm your host Mitch Roshong. And today I'll be bringing you right up to another conversation on how to best manage working from home. This time Adam talked to Heather Fletcher, a freelancer and candidate manager who looks to offer some quick tips to help anyone who is new to working from home for another perspective that'll help you settle into today's new norm. Let's listen to the conversation now.  Adam: (00:37)So there's a lot of people who are finding themselves in an extended period of working from home. And, we wanted to reach out because, you know, you have a great article on LinkedIn and we just wanted to see, you know, do you have some tips on how people can be successful and kind of stay sane as they find themselves in this new world of probably having kids home from school and having to work full time and just trying to balance all those things. what's the advice that you can give them?  Heather: (01:03)Oh yeah, I mean, I feel like it definitely depends on what things are happening that are important for you. Like people with kids, obviously their type priority is figuring out how to juggle work and taking care of their kids at the same time. I've already seen people post articles on this as well. It seems like some of the best tips that are for almost everybody is to get yourself on a schedule. It's really easy to be like, well I can sleep in, I don't have to drive anywhere and deal with traffic and then all of a sudden you're just kind of lollygagging around the house until it's time to start working. So keeping to a regular schedule really is a big help on that one. I feel like that's probably one of the top tips I can give you, but it's also still really important to get a lot of sleep to take care of yourself. So you're keeping your immune system up, eating healthy instead of snacking all day cause you're at home. I really feel like planning your meals, if you already do that, keep doing that because you're going to find that as cool as it sounds to cook yourself a fresh breakfast, lunch or dinner, it takes time to set up, prep, cook, serve, and then eat those things. So if you've already got a few meals planned for you, it's going to help your day go by a little more smoothly without stressing about how long it's taking you to chop vegetables, that's for sure.  Adam: (02:29)And then if you're making food for other people as well as yourself, then it gets even more complicated.  Heather: (02:33)Exactly. Like, yeah, like people that with the kids, maybe your spouse is home at the same time too. Maybe your roommates are home. If that's the case, and you've got all those people home. Another tip I would like to share is to try and find a space that doesn't have all those people in it. Maybe a place that you can shut the door on those people for a short periods of time if you need to. Cause it's, it's really easy to be distracted if you're sitting in maybe the, maybe you're sitting in the dining room and your kids are watching TV in the living room and then maybe somebody else is in the kitchen doing stuff. So especially if you have to talk to other people, those distractions that are nearby, it really helped get you off course without even, you just don't even notice it until an hour has passed sometimes.  Adam: (03:19)Definitely. So it's talking about, speaking of talking with people and speaking with other people cause she coworkers or clients or whatever your, whatever your job is, what are some technologies or some tools that you've, you've learned to use over with your experience working from home?  Heather: (03:35)Oh yeah. Our company uses a specific one called Nextiva. That's going ti be a bigger program for a bigger company. Perhaps you might not be using that already, but Skype is super easy and it's free. So you can call anybody. That way. You can use video chat or not use video chat, whatever works best for you. you can still use your phones. You still need to keep in touch with people. Email is probably going to be one. People are going to just remember that communication gets a little more difficult when you're not face to face with somebody. So give a little leeway for the person that you're talking to. Give them the benefit of the doubt. If you maybe misunderstand what they have said cause it always makes sense to yourself when you're saying something. But sometimes from the other person's perspective it doesn't come out that way. So our first reaction can sometimes be defense or offense and give yourself just a little bit of leeway to call that person and clarify ahead of time before you react one way or the other. Because more often than not, it's just going to be a small misunderstanding that you can clear up with a quick phone call.  Adam: (04:48)Now as you give that example, I feel like there's a, I feel like there's a personal experience in that. You want to share a personal experience where the communication didn't go as well and you had to clear that up.  Heather: (04:58)I feel like, honest to goodness, it probably happens once a week for me. I have another coworker that I work with, she's got the same name as me and we talk a lot. We're really interfacing quite a bit, but every now and then I'll send her a message just thinking I'm sending her like a quick message and it will sound offensive on the other hand and I'll need to give her a call and apologize and let her know that's not what I meant. And then I've got her back 100%. Because when you start to let those like little seemingly trivial things slide, they build up a bit and the sooner you can clear up that misunderstanding, the sooner you're moving on with your day with a clear head and clear heart.  Adam: (05:42)Definitely, definitely. It's always good to get it out in the open right away and not let things fester because as human with friendships or with family, if you don't communicate clearly and then if the other person doesn't understand it quite well and you don't clear that up, you know that goes into 20 years of never talking to a sibling.  Heather: (06:01)Exactly. It's a big problem with text messages in general. I tell all my friends and family, the second your text messages bring up in emotion, stop and call because a text message is for like, yes, no thank you. I'll be there. Be there. This time when you start to get into these like quote unquote like deeper conversations that have meaning to them, you really need that tone to set the stage for what you're saying with somebody.  Adam: (06:33)Definitely. And it's even important to use something like a webcam because when you're saying something to somebody, you may not see their facial expressions and how they're looking. And so how has a webcam been important in your experience?  Heather: (06:47)A webcam has bee...

Peter's website: www.petermargaritis.comPeter's books (Both books can be found on Amazon in paperback and Kindle.  Improv Is No Joke can be found on Audible)"www.TakingTheNumbOutOfNumbersBook.comhttp://petermargaritis.com/improv-is-no-joke-book/Change Your Mindset Podcast (Can be found on Apple Podcasts, C-Suite Radio, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and many other podcast platforms)Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/change-your-mindset/id1127514117C-Suite Radio: https://c-suitenetwork.com/radio/shows/change-your-mindset/Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5EXc70lxp3g6SWXBab596yiHeartRadio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-change-your-mindset-30921543/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)We are back for another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and we are now up to our 56 episode of the series. For today's discussion, we are going to hear Peter Margaritas, the accidental accountant. Talk to Mitch about the value of storytelling and accounting. Peter is an engaging storyteller himself. So we will cookie jump over to hear his perspective now.  Mitch: (00:25)Thanks for joining us today Peter. And as I was just kind of mentioning to you, I've done a little poking around, a little background checking here and I came across, the accidental accountant. So I'm wondering if you can kick that off and, you know, tell us a little bit about what that means.  Peter: (00:46)Oh, what that means was I didn't get into this profession until I was 30 years old. I'm Greek, I'm a Greek American. I really should be in a restaurant versus being a CPA. And I grew up in a very good Gary us environment, worked in many restaurants, were very customer focused. And when I got into the accounting profession, I understood it. I loved it. I'm not kind that does it very well. And actually in one of my reviews from my employer before I even sat down, she said, how in the heck did you ever become a CPA? The CPA can get all the way down to this detail. I'd only get you about three quarters of the way. You're an accidental accountant. And I thanked her for that. That was the nicest thing she had said. And so I, I've actually taken that and it's registered trademark and is, I'm doing business as the accidental accountants.  Mitch: (01:40)That's great. So as I'm going through this and I come across some of your other work here and I saw an article that you put out there, I believe it was accounting today. And, my next question is really about the profession in general and, and how has data and technology really changed the accounting industry in your opinion? The article was written about whether or not gap is really in touch with today's economy. So how does that all piece together?  Peter: (02:06)I think by the 1900's I mean we really talking about data analytics or even in the 20s now we're so data-driven and analytics-driven and, but if you sit and think about what accounting standards when they're written and when FASBI is proposing them primarily for publicly held entities, especially very large publicly held entities and they do feel tested and they get these luxury organizations to be part of part of it. But a lot of companies out there use gap statements because it's required of them to use gap statements. And they're much smaller entities. I mean the complexity of a gap, the revenue, the new revenue recognition standard, which is principles based now rules-based, there's over 700 pages. The convocation has over 10,000 pages. So what we're trying, and it seems like we're always trying to catch up, and think about back when the derivatives and during the Enron years and we were trying to write standards, what was it? Fin 46 and Fin46R then, there were SPEs, now they're VIE's we were writing them. We felt like we were, yeah, four or five years behind. We looking at today, you know, the SAS applications, you know, business software applications are being delivered on demand via the cloud and some of the metrics that are important within these organizations as recurring revenue, you know, churn rate, the number of subscribers which are crucial to their business. There's no way fashion is not addressed any of these things. So there's, I've, I've always felt that there always has been somewhat of a, gap, lack of a better term between, you know, what we're writing and where the U S economy is going. And we've, it's gotten so complex that counselors can even describe to the clients. And when I say clients, I mean both internal and external CFOs, you know, in the, in that group to their clients, what the purpose behind it. What we're doing, how do we apply it? It's very, very complex.  Mitch: (04:28)So I guess, you know, what I'm curious about really is, aside from the complexities, aside from being behind the times, essentially, what challenges is this really causing for today's accountants? And how are these standards, you know, really hurting the performance of today's accountant.  Peter: (04:49)I'll share a story with you. As soon after that article came out, I had a partner firm contacted me here in the central Ohio area and she said, I love your article and as you shared the story with me that their firm was doing a after hours gathering, CPE kind of gathering and they invited all the community and local banks in the area into this thing. And basically they were talking to the banks to see if they would start accepting the AICPA SME model for standards versus US gap because of the complexity. Yeah. I'm a former banker and I, bankers don't really understand the complexity that we're dealing with and when we're trying to, like my buddy who is still in banking when rev, rec, and leasing was coming out, he contacted me, he goes, so you guys just make standards to keep your jobs to be irrelevant to, is this like full employment? Now? What, why not? But perception and reality are so different. And when we try to communicate these standards to our clients within the organization, like consolidations vie's, there's thousands and thousands, hundreds of pages out there on this topic. And when we're just data dumping information, Oh, we're doing this, put it in sleep. Well we need to learn how to well well I asked my audiences is well a question like how many of you speak a foreign language? And I mean a few hands, you know, French, Spanish, Japanese. I said, let me reword that question. How many speak the foreign language of business call accounting? And they all start laughing and I went, it is a foreign language to the sales department, to human resources, to every part of the organization. Other than accounting and finance. Have you ever tried to explain anything to a sales, our HR person, whomever, can you listen to yourself? You're speaking in the foreign language of accounting, we have to become better translators of this language into plain English. And I think that's our biggest challenge is recognizing that we speak a foreign l...

Jordan's Resources:"So you're suddenly working remotely" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/so-youre-suddenly-working-remotely-jordan-hirsch/MURAL's "suddenly remote" webinar series recap: https://blog.mural.co/suddenly-remote-recapPhase2's WFH "How-to" Packet: https://phase2.gitbook.io/phase2-remote-work-playbook/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and knowing there is a lot more going on outside the accounting and finance world. We would like to align with Ima CEO Jeff Thompson's message and extend our heartfelt support to everyone facing the implications of the worldwide Coronavirus outbreak. Today we would like to share a timely bonus episode as IMA continues to support the profession with a variety of professional development resources. As many of our listeners are now faced with remote work and distant learning. My cohost Adam had a conversation with Jordan Hirsch to give our listeners some suggestions for working remotely. Jordan is the director of innovation at phase two a digital experience agency with a strong remote culture. He has over a decade of experience working from home and share some real practical tips for those who may not be as accustomed to working outside of the office. If you find yourself handling your business in what feels like a new, slightly uncomfortable work environment, listen to this conversation to help you adjust and get the most out of it.  Adam: (01:15)So Jordan, as we see with the recent events concerning the Corona virus, many people have been thrust into working from home suddenly. I know you've been a remote employee for a while now, so could you describe what it was like for you when you were first getting started?  Jordan: (01:28)Sure. I would say also that I feel for everybody who's getting thrust into it now because it is definitely really different from working in an office, especially if that's what you're used to. When I first started it was, it was kind of weird at first, my very first job out of college way back in 1999, I had an office job and I was allowed to work from home one day a week in that job. And that one day for a while I sort of saw it as my like get everything at home done day. I would, uh, you know, I'd vacuum the apartment, I would do a bunch of chores. I tried to get my work done ahead of time the rest of the week, so I didn't actually have to do much that day. And then over time, as I had other jobs and I started sort of do it more and more, it occurred to me, I started to realize that I actually needed that time to do work and I had to learn how to actually do my job at home. And I was working in tech at the time. So the mechanics of doing the work weren't that bad. I learned how to, you know, which files I would need to bring home from me, uh, to be able to work on my home machine, how to access all the network things that I needed from my job at home. How to sort of minimize the things I would need from the office. But probably the hardest part was learning how to apply some structure to myself to not see it as, you know, fun time or time when I could sort of get things done at home. But how to actually be at work at home was the biggest adjustment. So learning how to really have the discipline to sort of structure my time by myself and how to have that structure while I was, you know, literally all alone in the apartment was, was probably the steepest learning curve for me.  Adam: (03:04)So if there was one thing, there were a couple of things that you could have told yourself back then when you first started working at home, what would that be?  Jordan: (03:11)Probably just because you can do all your household stuff in the middle of the day and then do all your work at night. It doesn't always mean it's really a good idea. That worked. Okay. Sometimes when I was doing development work and I was a bit more working on my own. But if you're working with part of a team that can be really disruptive. So I wish that I had known at the beginning to start practicing giving myself some structure so that work time is for work and home time is for home. So kind of resisting that urge to get things done. You know on the, on the household front during the day. Now that so many household chores are online, you can do them in the office too. And so it's not that big of a difference. But you know, if I do decide like I've been at my desk too long, I have a break between meetings, I'm going to go, you know, go for a walk, go for a bike ride, vacuum the apartment, go do something else. Also having the discipline to make that time up later cause eventually it will catch up with you. Something else I would say I would have liked to know then is the idea of over communicating with everybody else at work, especially if you're new to it and if your team is new to it, it can take awhile to build up trust. Over-communicating helps people know where to find you, when to find you, how to find you, what you're doing. If you're busy, all the things that they could probably tell just by poking ahead and you know, at your desk or at your cubicle. But they can't do that now. So if someone reaches out to you and they don't hear back, they don't know. If you haven't set things up correctly, they don't know, you know, are you in a meeting? Are you going for a walk? Are you watching the Simpsons on your couch? You know, what's going on? Why can't I find Jordan? And those things can start to eat away at trust a little bit. So I'd say probably the thing that I would've liked to know also in addition to structuring my time is how to engage in those trust-building behaviors.  Adam: (05:00)So speaking of like trust-building behaviors, you know, there's probably a lot of team leaders who are suddenly the leaders of virtual teams. You know, can we keep talking on that? Where we'd like on keeping the culture and the teamwork alive, even though everybody's in different locations? Like, what advice would you give to them?  Jordan: (05:17)Oh, absolutely. The first thing I would say is if your team is moving to video calls, turn your cameras on. That's a really seemingly simple thing and it's also something that people get really uncomfortable with. We don't mind sitting at a table, you know, in a conference room full of our coworkers where everybody can see us. But turning on a camera feels like a really different step. There's definitely a mental barrier there to being on camera that people just aren't used to. When you turn your cameras on, it humanizes you for everybody and it humanizes everybody else on the call too so that you can all still look each other in the eyes, quote unquote. It's not exactly the same, but at least you are able to see each other and that goes a long way towards kind of remembering that like we're all together, we're all at work, we're all on the same team. These are the people I work with every day. I'd say also to make sure that you're making time for your culture. It's something now that you're going to have to schedule culture used to be able to happen, you know, in the break room and the kitchen stopping by someone's desk to say hi, just seeing someone in the hallway on the way...

Alessia's Suggested Resources:PwC’s 2019 Annual Corporate Directors Survey: https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/governance-insights-center/library/annual-corporate-directors-survey.html SASB’s Materiality Map: https://materiality.sasb.org/ EY, What investors expect from the 2020 proxy season: https://www.ey.com/en_us/board-matters/what-investors-expect-from-the-2020-proxy-season Alliance for Corporate Transparency 2019 Report: Analysis of Sustainability Reports of 1,000 Companies Pursuant to the EU Non-Financial Reporting Directive: https://www.allianceforcorporatetransparency.org/assets/2019_Research_Report%20_Alliance_for_Corporate_Transparency-7d9802a0c18c9f13017d686481bd2d6c6886fea6d9e9c7a5c3cfafea8a48b1c7.pdf SASB Integration Insights, Building TCFD-Ready Portfolios with SASB’s Standards, September 2019: https://www.sasb.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/ESG-Integration-Insights-Pinebridge-092719.pdf FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Adam: (00:00)You are now listening to episode 55 of Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I am your host, Adam Larson and I'll be bringing you right up to the conversation between my cohost Mitch and Alessia Falsarone. Alessia joined Count Me In to talk about how and why 2020 is the year of ESG data. She is the head of sustainable investing for portfolio management for PineBridge Investments and has a wealth of knowledge in the area of sustainability and integrated reporting. Let's head over to the main part of our episode now and hear Alessia share her valuable perspectives on ESG data. Mitch: (00:43)What are some typical line items or key data points relating to ESG and sustainability that accountants should really be reporting on?  Alessia: (00:57)Well, first of all, thank you Mitch for inviting me to share the investor lens with your audience at the IMA today.  2020 is truly the year of data for ESG. The entire field, not only investors, I am referring to- but also corporate finance specialists, controllers, treasurers, CFOs and auditors are taking a much closer look at what is generated across their organization as relates to sustainability efforts of the enterprise and starting to take stock of any linkages  between sustainability credentials that a company may list for customer outreach and end-market awareness in their reports and their website vs. the financially material sustainability factors that affect the profitability of their business. And that is an area where either accountants or treasurers or CFOs are spending in my opinion, as it is the case for the companies I engage with as an investor, a lot more time, since they're really looking at them not only as an engagement tool, but as an alignment with their financial commitments. So where sustainability is adding value in reporting is at the intersection of enterprise value, operating efficiency and top line growth. What's interesting about that is, when we think about corporate governance, and go back to corporate directors surveys for last year, for example, I think it was The PwC’s annual corporate directors survey that found more than half of directors say investors are giving too much time and focus to ESG – environmental and social governance considerations – which is nearly twice the percentage in 2018. What is it eye brow lifting for me as an investor when thinking about the accounting side of the business? Clearly there is the need for continued dialogue- if the board does not recognized the value, nor its audit committee, then investors can continue to debate the divestment saga or not but we will see little value in corporate reporting initiatives. So when you compare that survey to the engagement priorities for institutional investors during the 2020 proxy season remains environmental resilience and also the ability of the board to address resilience and capital planning considerations is clear. My lens remains bias as I am both a capital markets professional and a certified director with NACD – the National Association of Corporate Directors - in the US and a governance fellow for a number of years. I can assure you that at NACD there has been a strong push to elevate directors’ skills – certainly those sitting in audit committees – to see the relevant disruptions. This is something I would like to make clear to the audience at the IMA. ESG is certainly a tangible one on a clock – it carries reputational risk that no sustainability credentialing process could make up for if lost. Few enlightened board chairs or audit committee members see that and they are certainly keeping the accounting for ESG data up the priority list.  Mitch: (04:21)So that's really interesting. And you know, from this investor perspective here, you know, aside from the time and the priority that goes into it, I'm sure there are a number of other challenges as well that, you know, accountants particularly must be aware of. So from your perspective, what are some of these challenges that accountants face with this ESG data when it comes to giving investors the information that they're really looking for?  Alessia: (04:45)It’s quite interesting. When I think about financial innovation and the headlines surrounding the issuance of sustainability-linked financial instruments such as traditional green bonds, loans or even transition-linked capital raising instruments, they have certainly raised awareness as the treasury team at a company and the CFO is as involved as the auditors and the external verifiers in aligning capital raised with capex associated with a company’s green effort. That’s one part of it. Certainly, from an accounting perspective, the need for ESG data is to be aligned with the financial commitments of a firm as data is about long terms trends that will require as much opex as capex to build resilience or competitive advantage and top line growth. Either way, ESG data and the impact on $-Unit measures are the hardest to address as non-financial risks and non-traditional sources of risk don’t come in same unit measure. Clearly you have accounting and finance professionals testing themselves on kilowatt-hours when aggregating energy efficiency to metric tons of CO2 per home yearly when discussing home energy use, or even more esoteric such as “near misses” which is the count of events with the potential of loss or injury if the accountant is analyzing health and safety statistics within the workforce. Who’s domain is that? It is increasingly of financial professionals. While there is certainly room to define best practices, it is simply good business management to define E-S-G indicators at the company level that are associated with financial outcomes and address them and report them consistently – they could be in the form of trends or as statics, absolute levels if there are absolute (sustainability) targets in place.I will give you an...

Contact Efrain Rivera:https://www.paychex.com/newsroom/executive-bios/efrain-riverahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/efrain-rivera-75b4b15/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:00)Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and I will be bringing you episode 54 of IMA's podcast. Today's expert guests is CFO and treasurer of Paychex. Efrain Rivera. He joined my cohost, Adam to explain how technology trends have impacted paychecks and the services they provide for their clients. He also talks about how clients expectations of their services have changed. Listen and now to hear how this executive of a highly reputable outsourcing firm has realized the changes in our accounting and finance world.  Adam: (00:35)So Paychex is a provider of human resource, payroll and benefits outsourcing services. And so with the broad scope of traditional services, how have technology trends impacted the job you and your team are required to do?  Efrain: (00:54)Yeah, I think it's impacted it in two ways. So the first is with respect to the platform itself that we use to deliver those services. And then I think the second which we'll talk about is the way those services are actually delivered. So first, let me talk about, the technology of the platform itself. I'd say starting about nine, 10 years ago, you saw an evolution of service providers, moving to the cloud, on platforms that were multitenant and SAS, meaning, you moved away from on premise software, we moved into the cloud and your systems were available to all of the participants, in that were using the product all at once. And you had to have a robust system that was capable of addressing the needs of all of those, those clients. What that meant was, you needed to be able to deliver updates to that platform seamlessly across all of your client base and you needed to do that in real times. So, your systems had to become more, high availability and, they, they needed to, participate or be available for frequent updating instead of an update that occurred maybe once or twice a year or three times a year. If you were doing it more frequently, you now have the evolution of systems which frequently were updated on weekly and monthly bases based on, the needs of both users. And requirements of the system. When you put that all together, it put a lot more demand, on the technology. and it fundamentally impacted the way, the technology was delivered and now what was a trend 10 years ago has become the dominant way in which technology is delivered, particularly in the human capital management space, which is what we talk about when we talk about HR, payroll and benefits. So it's changed very dramatically over that period of time and impacted the way that we do our job and the way that we make investments to sustain that platform. That's the first part of the, equation. The second part is more recent and that's how the services that, technology enabled service providers deliver have changed and those services have changed because what used to be primarily a service provider function has now shifted to become a mix of both technology and service provider. What I mean by that is this many things that in the past, could only have been done directly with a phone contact or chat contact with a service provider, an actual service provider can now be done through technology itself. So, for example, the use of technologies such as intelligent chat bots, artificial intelligence, robotic process automation, all of these things have revolutionized the way service is delivered. So while we used to think about this clear divide between technology and service delivery, those lines became blurred. And what used to be a service is now increasingly delivered through technology. In our case, we have, intelligent chatbots that, that can answer many, many questions that clients, pose. And our systems are becoming more and more intelligent so that when we see that a customer is lingering in one part of the, application, chat, a chat window will pop up, giving them some indication around what to do next. So systems are becoming more intelligent, service is becoming more blurred with technology, and all of that puts a premium on making the right kinds of investments in technology. So that, the customer can get the service that, that they want and deserve.  Adam: (05:54)So you just mentioned a lot of different software applications, the, the evolution of all those and there's also the evolution of cloud accounting technology, which all those things have to talk together. Do you, what found, what challenges do you face in providing those services?  Efrain: (06:11)So I would say with respect to the evolution of cloud accounting services, um, that's not an area that, that we provide, but a cloud accounting services interface with the technology that we do provide. And so for us, the biggest challenge there is, or one of the bigger challenges is to ensure that our systems and our software, particularly our, our software interface seamlessly with the kinds of accounting software that major providers, delivered, to customers. So there's a number of packages that, that are prevalent in the marketplace. There's one dominant package. And, for us as we design our systems, particularly on the payroll side, but in other areas too, on, on, human resources administration and also in our time and attendance systems, our time tracking systems, they need to seamlessly integrate with those, accounting packages so that the information that's being, captured in the system is transmitted, into the accounting systems and the correct information flows both ways and increasingly if not just good enough to do it, on some sort of file transfer basis. Increasingly what's going on is that that information is exchanged real time or, or we're being asked to exchange that information real time, with third party vendors. And so configuring our systems to be able to do that becomes an important challenge. and, one of the, one of the things that, that our it group, works on.  Adam: (08:02)How have you handled a security, with those systems talking together in real time now?  Efrain: (08:08)Yeah, security, I would say in the last decade, the amount of, the amount of investment that we have made in security has increased significantly. There's a couple of reasons for that. One is because we transmit so much, money, we have to ensure that the perimeter of our, our systems is hardened, to prevent intrusion. So we're constantly on the lookout for that. But the second point, which you just mentioned is we also need to be, um, we also need to look at how our systems interface with other, other providers to ensure that there are no vulnerabilities when information is exchanged. And so we have made a lot of investments and things like encryption of information ensuring that, when there are handoffs, in information, there's no, there's no security issues around that. And also, um, we have made significant investments in monitoring activity in and out of our systems to ensure that, data is protected and there intrusions are not minimized, but basically prevented. so we, we spent a lot of time, thinking about that and working on that and investing to make sure that those issues will not occur.  Adam: (09:44)Now, I'm sure your clien...

Contact Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelbdruckenmiller/UNMUTED: www.UnmutedLife.com FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I am your host, Adam Larson, and this is episode 53 of our series. Our featured expert guests who joined Mitch for this conversation is Rachel Druckenmiller the founder and CEO of un-muted Rachel is a keynote speaker who uses her compelling speaking engagements and live workshops to energize and engage workforces. And her discussion with Mitch, Rachel talks about self care, self leadership and explains how individuals can manage expectations of others to meet the expectations and personal goals of their own. Keep listening to hear more about this valuable leadership topic.  Mitch: (00:43)So as we started talking about this conversation, we really said we wanted to focus on what we're calling self-care and self leadership. So the first thing that came to my mind was, you know, how do we effectively assess expectations? And I'm just wondering if you can kind of share your thoughts on, you know, how do we assess our own expectations against what other people are looking from us?  Rachel: (01:13)Yeah. There's a, there's a book written by a woman named Bronnie ware called The Top. It sounds kind of morbid. It's called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. And I share these with people when I speak at different events and conferences, but the number one is tied to tied to expectations, the number one and regret that people say that I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself and not the life others expected of me. So I think expectations come in two forms, I think in one form for us to be honest about what it is we want out of our lives and being intentional about designing a life that we want. Because otherwise, if we're not calling the shots, other people will be happy to kind of tell us what they need out of us and, and, and basically design our lives for us. But when it comes to a professional setting, I think a lot of times we have, we make assumptions about what people expect of us because we see how the people before us have handled themselves professionally. And so if they've just driven themselves into the ground, we assume that we have to and we don't necessarily, you know, get curious and ask questions about what is truly expected and from other people and what are the expectations that perhaps are not justified that we're putting on ourselves.  Mitch: (02:35)That's great. And how do we go about prioritizing this though? You know, you always want to put your priorities, your goals first. You know, that's kind of the message and being intentional. But um, once you get to know what other people expect of you know, how do you go about reaching their needs to a point where you're still successful?  Rachel: (02:55)I mean, for part of it I feel like is you know a matter of really being really being honest about you know what you need from people. I think a lot of times we're afraid to ask for what we need. We're afraid to ask for support. We're afraid to ask for clarification. We're afraid to ask people questions about things cause we don't want them to see us as incompetent or an inadequate in some way. And so part of that I think is around making sure that we have the courage to be vulnerable and to be honest about, you know, what we need. But then I think, you know, another side of this is that, um, we have to, we're working for a business, you know, and so it's important for us to be clear with whoever we're working with that, you know, what are you, what are you expecting of me? So that I can measure my own success. Cause there's, there's a, there's a book called the truth about Employee Engagement. And one of the things that he talks about is that a measurement is one of the key factors that leads to job misery. So basically not being able to gauge our own success and progress. So I think you know, as employees, as leaders, one of the things that we can do to really make people feel, you know, a sense of engagement at work, and this is also tied to expectations, is to really be clear on how they can measure their own success. And so if we don't know how to do that, if it's not clear to us, we need to be willing to ask those questions and get that clarity.  Mitch: (04:23)That's a great point. And I actually just looked over, I have that book on my bookshelf right next to me in my office. So that's a great reference. Yeah. I guess, you know, the next question, maybe flipping the perspective here a little bit, but you know, we're talking about someone else's expectations of us. How about those who aspire to be leaders, you know, particularly our listeners, they look to be CFO's, business partners leading in the accounting and finance world. When you are the leader, how do you really, you know, not just develop your own personal leadership style but you know, consider the expectations of somebody else and make sure that you, uh, you know, work with them also from the other side of it.  Rachel: (05:05)You know, it's interesting, I think a lot of times, especially in very technical profession, so I've, I've often speaks to people that are in technical fields like, like finance, accounting, engineering, architecture and design, construction. So people that are in spaces that are generally very, very technical. And there's an assumption that in order to advance that we have to have the most technical knowledge, that if we're the most technically competent, that is going to be the thing that is going to help us advance and grow. And what I've come to learn through experience but also through a lot of research that's been coming out lately, is that there's this study done that looked at over 50,000 managers. And what they found is that warmth. So when we think of warmth, we think of approachability, accessibility, kindness, care, honesty, being present with people, that warmth was a greater predictor of leadership effectiveness than competence. And that surprises a lot of people because we assume that if we're just the most technically competent, that's going to get us ahead. And it's changing. So what's expected of leadership is, is changing and it's evolving and it's even been framed by Josh Berson, right? Futurist who has a lot of influence in terms of, you know, talking about leadership and the future of work. And, and he is reframing what we often call soft soft skills like these, you know, the skills related to emotional intelligence, Jensen communication and listening and kind of the behaviors associated with warmth. But he's reframing those and calling them power skills because those skills, if you can do those well they give you real power at work. They give you real influence at work. So I would encourage people to focus if you want to get to the top level of leadership to focus as much if not more on more of these these power skills like your agility people management ability to effectively, those are the things that are going to help elevate you. You still want to be competent. I mean we need people who are technically competent, but it's the combination of those two things that really sets people apart.  Mitch: (07:14)That's really interesting. And I like the kind of re categorization of ...

Mike Wallace, Partner at ERM: Environmental Resources Management, joins Count Me In to talk about all things relating to ESG. Mike previously spoke with IMA around the Global Reporting Initiative (GRI) in 2011 and was able to provide insight into some changes that relate to ESG data and integrated reporting. With so much data now available, businesses and investors are very interested in particular metrics that represent an aptitude for managing their money and their firms responsibly. Mike is an internationally recognized expert in sustainability, ESG, and human capital, and brings this global knowledge to IMA once again to provide advice and insight into the development and implementation of sustainability. He has helped launch a range of sustainability programs inside existing organizations, helped create new initiatives, and helped organizations expand into new markets and, in this episode, he speaks specifically to those in accounting and finance of small and medium sized businesses. Listen now to hear about how your business can measure its reporting and performance with all the tools and resources available in today's industry!Contact Mike: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikewallace/Mike's Recommended Resources:https://www.gmsustainability.com/gri.html https://www.erm.com/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Thanks for coming back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. This is Mitch Roshong and I'll be bringing you to episode 52 of our series. My cohost Adam Larson, had a great conversation about various reporting expectations with Mike Wallace. Mike is partner at erm environmental resources management and is an internationally recognized expert in sustainability, ESG and human capital. He explains the recent changes since the global reporting initiative, measuring data for the expectations of different sectors and all things accounting and finance professionals should pay attention to regarding ESG. Keep listening to hear about how you can measure your company's reporting and performance with all the tools and resources available.  Adam: (00:55)So we first met, uh, almost a decade ago when you were working for the GRI or the global reporting initiative and a lot's happened since then. And can you let us know what changes you've seen most since then?  Mike: (01:08)Yeah, sure. The I mean I think, you know, the GRI is an interesting one where we met because the GRI itself is an entity but also the world's leading provider of our sustainability reporting framework, which has now become a standard. But that year I was created literally almost 20 years ago and was developed by a group of stakeholders that got together and said, you know, it's really fantastic what all these companies are doing about their environmental reporting and voluntary sustainability reporting, but they're not doing it in a very standardized manner. Let's create a framework by which companies can, how used to guide how they disclose this type of information. And that was the birth of the GRI literally 20 years ago. At about the same time a similar group of companies and stakeholders got together and they were talking about of all things greenhouse gas emissions disclosure and how those disclosures weren't consistent either. And that was the beginning of the greenhouse gas protocol. So today the GRI is the most widely used reporting framework out there. If you Google any company and and the word GRI after it, you're very likely to find it. The GRI report for the company so you know that they've done it according to a recognized global. My standard and the greenhouse gas protocol underlies all of the ways that we measure and manage and disclose carbon emissions today. So it feels like there's a sudden flood of all these things but it's actually been growing for the last, you know, 20 years or so. Probably the biggest things that have happened to the most significant changes that more and more people have grabbed onto the GRI's approach and enhanced it and tweaked it in ways to help focus it into certain areas or directions. For instance, the CDP is very focused on greenhouse gas disclosures and it's backed up by lot of investors who were saying, we want this type of information. There is, there are things that are specific to health and safety and how you treat your people or your human capital one in particular. It's called the workforce disclosure initiative and they've taken the ball and run with it around disclosures that companies should make about how they treat their people. And that can be gender and diversity issues or it could be right down to health and safety policy. And probably the biggest, most influential is, is the TCFD cause it's, it's the biggest one out there with the most players around it. And in essence the entire global market. The financial community, it's gotten together under this entity called the task force on climate related financial disclosures. Long name, but just think about it from the name of the standpoint of TCFD. You look up the signatories on that and you're going to see stock exchanges, the major rating agencies, insurance companies, lenders, asset management firms, commercial banks, private banks. And you'll see a lot of companies names on it and essence. They all got together and said to each other through this platform, the TCFD, we've got some issues here related to climate change risk and we all want to do business together. But it's in all of our best interest. If we figure out how we as individual companies and within our industries should measure, manage and report on the risks we face. I want to list, you says stock exchange, who's part of TCFD? But I want to know that you're going to be around for the future. I want to ensure you says insurance company, but I want to see your TCFD disclosures. I want to rate you says one of the ratings firms, but I want to see your TCFD disclosures and the companies are turning around and doing this because they want that finance financing. They want those business partners and they realize that these risks are true and real to their business. That's probably the biggest thing I've seen in the last decades, the TCFD emergence. But then this week we just last week we just had Davos and the world economic forum throughout all sorts of new news for us to digest. And yeah, it might feel overwhelming for companies, but it's actually pretty consistent with the pattern that we've been monitoring for the last 20 years.  Adam: (05:09)So thanks for those points, Mike. One of the things we noticed that um, black rock released their letter in January. You know, how was this shaking out in the marketplace?  Mike: (05:21)Yeah. It's interesting, Adam, because we've seen the letter come out for the last few years from Larry think and it's increasingly evolve to include more and more discussion about environmental, social and governance topics. And it's just put yourself in the driver's seat. There. World's largest asset manager. They have a lot of customers, asset owners like the big public pension funds and sov...

Contact Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellypaxton/Pink Collar Crime site: https://pinkcollarcrime.com/IMA's Annual Conference & Expo 2020: https://bit.ly/2HXTN42IMA's website: https://www.imanet.org/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:00)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. In the past we've included some IMA focus bonus episodes where we spoke to Ima, staff members where I am a volunteers and young professionals. Today's bonus episode is very interesting because we are going to share a conversation held with Kelly Paxton, a certified fraud examiner and pink collar crime expert. She spoke with IMS manager of brand content and storytelling, Margaret Michaels Kelly presented on pink collar crime at IMA's 2019 annual conference and expo in San Diego and she was nice enough to sit with Margaret after her presentation to share some additional insights as we approach our 2020 annual conference. We thought it would be a great opportunity to share some valuable perspectives like Kelly's and make sure you look out for this year's speakers and topics. Let's head over to the conversation now.  Margaret: (00:57)I'd like to start with your area of expertise. Can you tell us a little bit about how you became interested in pink collar crime and how you learned more about it?  Kelly: (01:15)So I became interested in pink collar crime when I was working as the fraud analyst at a local Sheriff's department. Prior to that I was, my original career was in finance and I became a customs special agent. So I was used to arresting bad guys you know, money launderers, drug dealers. But then when I go to a local Sheriff's office and I'm doing primarily embezzlement type cases, all my suspects are women. And I came across the term pink collar crime and I just started researching it and it fascinated me because we were arresting women that look like you and me. They were nice woman. I had a detective one day who, she arrested a woman who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from her child's school where she worked at. And the detective said it was the hardest day of her career. That was this nice woman. She was crying, she was devastated, she had no criminal history, nothing. She made a bad decision and it just spiraled out of control. So I was fascinated because I was, we think of criminals as bad guys. We don't think of them as the people that live in our neighborhoods. And that's what I was seeing in embezzlement cases.  Margaret: (03:54)This is so interesting. Can you explain to us what is the difference between pink collar and white collar crime?  Kelly: (04:03)So white collar crime came in in 1939 by Edwin Sutherland. It is a crime committed by a person of high social status in the course of his occupation and it was his occupation. So it took another 50 years for pink collar crime to come out, which is petty amount stolen by lower level workers in the workplace, primarily women because women are in those positions. So what I say a huge part of the difference between pink and white collar crime is it's position, not gender. So white collar crime is generally considered to be fraud, which is Ponzi schemes, financial statement, fraud and corruption. Whereas pink collar crime, I call it garden variety embezzlement. It's the main street crime. It is the dentist who gets ripped off by his trusted office manager. It is the manufacturing company who has an accounts payable, you know, employee who steals. It's relatable. That's, I use a lot of hashtags in my social media and presentations and I call it the relatable crime. I can't tell you how many people come up when they find out what I do and they have their own story of how they are. A family member had been ripped off by someone or a school club that their kid belongs to. So I call it the relatable crumb. We don't relate to Bernie Madoff. It's just we don't, we don't live in his world. We live in the world of mainstream. Margaret: (05:37)Are there patterns in the behavior of pink collar criminals? For example, I'm not sure if you consider Elizabeth Holmes a pink collar criminal or not, but there have been reports that her behavior seemed to raise some red flags. In the cases you've worked on. What have you commonly seen?  Kelly: (05:56)So some of the common characteristics of pink collar criminals are the trusted employee. It is your right hand person, you own a business, it is your trusted employee. I will tell you it's positioned not gender. A man can be a pink collar criminal. It's the position, it's just the women are in more of these types of positions. According to census, you know, reports 90 plus percent of administrative positions are filled by women. And that's where the cash is in a business. It's in accounts payable, it's in accounts receivable, bookkeepers, receptionist's office managers. So, but they are trusted employees, absolutely trusted employees. So, um, Elizabeth Holmes, I don't consider it to be a pink collar criminal. I don't know what she actually financially profited from Theranose. But the thing about the women and pink collar criminals or the men and pink collar criminals is they're indispensable in a business. They really are indispensable. One of the, I call them pink flags instead of red flags, I call them pink flags is never taking a vacation. So if you have an employee who never takes a vacation, it is a huge pink flag. Of course, lifestyle I do, I tell businesses to do a parking lot audit, look outside and does their salary match the car? I mean, I've had a dentist who, when you find out you've been embezzled, it's horrifying. You are just gutted. And so what do people do when they're horrified? They try to bring humor in it. And so here I have this dentist, he realizes he's been ripped off and he said, you know, when I realized she drove a newer model, BMW's than me, that would be a clue. And I'm like, yep, that would be a clue. So there are patterns men steal more than women. So if you get a male pink color criminal or embezzler, he's going to steal more than a woman. Women steal 45 to 50 cents on the dollar compared to men. Embezzlers and that's been my practice. The two biggest cases I've had male embezzlers.  Margaret: (08:14)Very interesting. Well obviously you don't know someone's behavior before you hire them. Not fully at least. So what are some of the best practices for background checks or industry standards that organizations can follow when looking to hire new employees?  Kelly: (08:31)So I did background checks for many, many years and the ACFE has their report to the nation that most company, about 50% of companies do background checks. Now a background check is a rear view looking assessment. We went to look now into the future. So that's what I say, a parking lot audit lifestyle audit. Many States you can no longer run credit reports unless you did. There is a, you know, a need that can be documented. So the problem with the background check is a lot of these people may have done it before and just been fired or terminated and not prosecuted and so it won't show up on their record. But then there's a huge amo...