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Get ready for part two of our insightful ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) discussion on the Count Me In podcast. Our expert panel, Douglas, Dan, and Catie, unpack the pressures and fraud risks inherent in ESG reporting, offering invaluable insights gleaned from real-world scenarios. But it's not just about identifying risks; they also provide practical guidance for those embarking on their ESG journey. Learn how to start with what you have, concentrate on materiality, and establish a robust, cross-functional ESG team. Tune in for an essential roadmap to navigate the complexities of ESG reporting in today's business landscape. This is one episode you won't want to miss!Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we have part two of Unraveling ESG. We're joined, again, by Catie Selex, Douglas Hileman, and Dan Mosher for the completion of their conversation. Now, if you didn't hear part one, I encourage you to pause right now and listen to that first. In today's episode, we explore the challenges and risks of ESG reporting, including the potential for fraud. Our experts delve into the pressures companies face and discuss real-world examples of how well-intentioned sustainability efforts can sometimes lead to misreporting and potential fraud. But it's not all about the pitfalls, they also offer essential guidance to those new to ESG. Emphasizing the importance of starting with existing resources, focusing on materiality, and setting up the dedicated cross-functional ESG team. Don't miss this invaluable conversation, so let's get started. [00:00:55]       < Music > Dan:                Doug, I mentioned the ACFE's Fraud Triangle earlier, and I'm eager to hear some of your perspectives on applying that Fraud Triangle to ESG.  Doug:              Thank you, Dan, it can be done too. It's a familiar construct, and I was fortunate to be an in-house at a Big Four when Sarbanes-Oxley hit. And at the very beginning of designing internal controls and testing internal controls, we had to consider the possibility of fraud.We had to design controls to prevent fraud, in audits we had to detect fraud.  Being an environmental specialist, and then with the IIA coming out with changing their IPPF, their framework, to require testing for fraud. I've been testing for fraud and considering fraud for 20 years, in the environmental space since 2002. It looks a little different for ESG, but not as different as you might think. There is pressure, pressure can be, "We've got to get this report out." "The customer wants this answer." "We have to say, for example, that our products didn't come from Bangladesh, so what the heck? How will they find out?" There's so much pressure. I see that people are involved in ESG, in this non-financial reporting, as an add-on to their jobs. It might be 20% of their job, and it's the 20% between 120 and 140% of what they're supposed to do. People are under, and companies, are under tremendous pressure to put the right answer out there.  They have the opportunity to do so because the controls are not designed, and have not been implemented with the potential for fraud in mind. So where there are weak controls or no controls, the opportunities are there. I see this comes into play, also, when data and information comes from outside the organization. There's this tricky thing where so much of what we do, in ESG, is not only what the organization controls but what the organization can influence. There are some challenges there, how do you control what you don't control?  So the opportunity is there because the controls can be weak or nonexistent. And the rationalization can be, "Well, everybody does it."  Or "It's not about money, it's about prestige." "It's not really this, we want the award." We've seen, for example, there's a magazine, an organization, that rates colleges, the 10 best colleges in each thing. And we've started to see, in recent years, where the colleges are even fudging the information to get the prestige of being in that award. That may have secondary effects for how many people go to that college or what they're willing to pay for tuition, but that's fraud.  In my book, if you submit data and information that is incorrect, or inaccurate, or misleading, with the intent to deceive at the expense of others. Especially if that turns into actual or potential financial gain, I call that fraud. So that applies on all three sides of the triangle. It's just a matter of thinking about this ESG and non-financial world and how that can happen. Dan:                Excellent, Doug. Yes, maybe, just to add a couple of extra points around those pressures and incentives. Today we are seeing that there is incentive compensation for certain executives that is linked to various ESG measures. If you think about that and the opportunity for management override of certain controls that are out there, that's a great incentive.  If you're going to get paid a bigger bonus because of greater ESG metrics, and your ESG, for example, your emissions information is held in Excel spreadsheet, which in many cases that is the case. I saw a survey, not so long ago, of more than a thousand executives saying that, I think, it was 86% of them had their emissions data just sitting in a spreadsheet. And if you could change that with a few keystrokes, at the executive level, to boost your bonus, someone might do that. Other things I think of are from an incentive or pressure standpoint. Things around ESG-linked bonds or credits where there are a key performance indicators and you're required to maintain those metrics, to maintain certain interest rates or payment on your bond. Those things are out there and they're going to influence some portion of those that are held to them. Catie, maybe, you have some other thoughts around this as well? Catie:              Yes, Dan, so one of the things that we're seeing in ESG, especially because people are so compelled to make great strides on their data and to make progress towards their targets, in a very quick manner, is there's an emerging market of solutions that some are absolutely l...

As highlighted in the recent COSO publication on Internal Controls over Sustainability Reporting, good governance and systems for sustainable business activities and ESG reporting require attention to potential risks around fraud and greenwashing.  Reflecting Grant Thornton’s recent report on control activities related to these risks, join us as we take a dive deep into the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) in business with our latest episode of the 'Count Me In' podcast. Hosted by a panel of experts, which includes Catie Serex, Douglas Hileman and Dan Mosher, our podcast uncovers the truth behind ESG, its importance in today's business world, the challenges it presents, and importantly, its potential role in fraudulent activities. Tune in for a fascinating conversation on ESG reporting, corporate purpose, sustainability, and the latest trends affecting investors, employees, and stakeholders alike. Don't miss this chance to stay informed and ahead of the curve in the ever-evolving world of business.Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/ Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello, and welcome back to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the complexities of Environmental, Social, and Governance, ESG, with a distinguished panel of experts. We're joined by Douglas Hileman, an experienced sustainability consultant, with over three decades of experience in environmental management systems, and internal controls.  Alongside him, we have Dan Mosher, a seasoned professional who excels in helping businesses navigate the complexities of sustainability and environmental risks. Last but not least, we welcome Catie Serex. A leader in environmental, health, and safety, auditing and management who assists businesses in integrating sustainable and socially responsible practices.  Today's discussion will delve into the importance of ESG, the challenges businesses face in managing ESG data, and the potential risk of fraud in ESG reporting. Here we go, let's listen in together. [00:01:00]       < Music > Doug:              And one of the things that we might kick off is with a very basic question of what is ESG? Dan, when people ask you this, how do you answer? Dan:                Well, it really is a big umbrella, and I'll ask for some help from Catie in this regard. But ESG stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. And, so, lots of things under that environmental area. Everything from waste management and air quality, climate change. From a social perspective, it could be your human capital management, health and safety matters. Governance, I think of anticorruption, data risks, and the like. So it really is a broad title when we say ESG. Catie, do you have some things you'd like to add to that comment? Catie:              Yes, Dan, you definitely covered the gamut as far as some of the phrasings and the terminology, and really the topics that fall under that ESG umbrella. What I would want to add is that ESG is certainly one of the buzziest words in business today. But you might not know that ESG is, very simply, the newest iteration of concepts you've likely known for a long time. It's been previously known as corporate purpose, sustainability, even philanthropy.  But what differentiates ESG from these previous versions is that it now represents the closest alignment, to date, of business operations, so think about your tangible assets. To those intangible elements of business that drive value. And, in this case, I'm referring to things like customer loyalty, labor environments, community engagement support. And because of this connection, ESG is moving from a nice-to-have to a need-to-have for companies, but also their investors, their customers, and other key stakeholders like their employees. Doug:              I also think of ESG as a convenient taxonomy for all things non-financial. Many people have published those pillars or the word clouds that's in the ACFE report, and what topic goes where. For financial reporting, we know where sales goes and we know where EBITDA goes. We know where those are in a format and how to put the data and information together for clarity and reporting. For all things non-financial, it's just such a sprawling array of topics that ESG serves for one reason, in one way, as just simply a taxonomy. And there are some issues, such as climate change, like Dan mentioned, that really transcend more than one category, if you will. But for purposes of just where do you find it, and how do you manage it, and it can just serve as a taxonomy. Catie, to your point, on how to organize some processes, some controls, some recordings to understand what the organization is doing. Dan:                And I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the various channels in which this information is being put out there in the public. Catie, maybe you have some thoughts around the wide scope of that. Catie:              Yes, so in terms of the reporting side of things and getting to the nuts and bolts of what, I'm sure our listeners are interested in, in terms of, what am I on the hook for? There are a lot of reporting frameworks out there that are guiding folks. And I know that that's been a point of confusion for people is understanding, there are all these different acronyms out there. That I can report to like SASB, or the Global Reporting Initiative, GRI, Task Force for Climate-Related Financial Disclosures or TCFD. There are a lot of frameworks out there, but the field is narrowing.  So some of the communication that we've been seeing from these wider umbrella frameworks, are that they are working together to consolidate. To make things a little bit more straightforward, and to make things a little bit more uniform across the reporting landscape. But that's currently in progress, and this is just a result of this being not in nascent stages, but still in its growth period, and really honing down what are the things that shareholders, regulators, and such need to see when it comes to these ESG disclosures. Dan:...

Discover the secrets to unlocking employee engagement in this eye-opening episode of the Count Me In Podcast. Join us as we welcome Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy, as she shares valuable insights into employee engagement, strategies to transform disengaged employees, and the importance of creating inclusive communities within the workplace. Don't miss this chance to learn how to maximize productivity and employee satisfaction in your organization! Connect with Sarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-rubenstein-a724632/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy. With us to discuss the crucial role that employee engagement plays in an organization's success.  Sarah brings her extensive experience in cultivating positive work environments to the table. Offering valuable advice on identifying disengaged employees, implementing effective strategies to boost engagement, and the benefits of fostering an inclusive, collaborative workspace. Stay tuned as we uncover the keys to unlocking a happy, productive, and thriving work environment. Adam:            Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about employee engagement and all that that encompasses. And maybe to start off, maybe, you can start by defining what is employee engagement to you. Sarah:            Sure, to me, employee engagement is how positive people feel about their work, and we measure that in a lot of different ways. But, really, I'm lucky, the company that I work at, we survey our employees every year, regarding employee engagement. And we ask some really good questions that were developed by very smart people at Harvard, and Yale, and Stanford, that tell us how engaged people are.  And, so, we're able to evaluate, and a lot of the questions relate to things like management, leadership, integrity, work-life balance, workload, allocation, autonomy, and things like that. And all of those factors really tell us how engaged our employees are. Adam:            That's interesting, and when you mention engaged, a lot of times when you see discussions about employee engagement. You see engaged employees versus disengaged employees. And, so, maybe we can start by talking about that a little bit. Because you have your engaged employees, and you can usually tell who those are. But the disengaged maybe a little harder to see, or maybe not so hard, depending on what they're not doing, I should say. Sarah:            Yes, sure, and the first indication we have, that some employees are not engaged, is that they don't answer the surveys. So we don't get 100% participation. So that tells us that some people feel like maybe their voice won't be heard, even if they answer. And those people, usually, just have a negative outlook, maybe, on what type of work they're doing or their future within the company.  And, so, a lot of times, you lose the engagement when people feel like there's no career development path for them, or the work that they're doing isn't valuable, or they're not being told that the work that they're doing is valuable. Adam:            And that can be very difficult for an employee, especially, when you don't feel like you can't move up in an organization. How do you take somebody who is disengaged and try to get them to be engaged? Sarah:            That's a great question, and, especially, when you don't have a development path for a person, it is really challenging. And, so, what we try to do is we try to provide a lot of personal and professional development opportunities. And we talk to our employees about how those types of opportunities can help them develop themselves. Whether for this particular company and role or just in general for their career. So we try to offer them opportunities to learn and also to, maybe, work in an area that isn't related to their job.  So we try to look for things we call stretch assignments. Where there might be an opportunity in another group, where someone needs help with a special project, and that might give that individual the opportunity to learn new skills that they can put on their resume, even if it doesn't give them direct path to promotion. So we try to demonstrate what we can offer the employee, even if it isn't upward mobility, and that maybe we can't keep them forever, but we can keep them a little bit longer, and that helps us overall. Adam:            Yes, because it shows that you care and that you're engaging with them, even though they seem to be disengaged. And, so, it encourages them, even if there is no upper mobility at that moment. Sarah:            Right, because everyone is looking for some type of personal development, even if they don't see a future for themselves at that company. So we try to offer something for everyone. If you don't see yourself as a leader at this company, that's okay, we'll work with you on how you can make yourself a better employee and a better person. So that, at least, we can keep you around, and have you feel happy to be working at the company for the time being. Adam:            Mh-hmm, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe we can focus a little bit on what are some benefits, to organizations, to creating an engaging environment? Sarah:            I haven't read all of the studies, but there are numerous studies that show that engaged employees are better employees, they're more productive. Of course, we know that hiring new employees, and training them, and getting them up to speed is very expensive and time-consuming. And, so, it benefits us to take the time to develop programs to promote employee engagement. Because, overall, we end up with better productivity and just a better workforce. Adam:            I mean, that makes a lot of sense to want to have a better workforce, especially, when they're engaged. And, so, maybe, we can talk a little bit about what do you need to look for, especially, when your team is not engaged. Are there certain signs that you can look for? Obviously, you mentioned you can tell people are not engaged when they're not taking a survey. But then what are other signs that you can look for, within your team, if you can talk a little bit about that? Sarah:            Yes, no problem, I think, there are  a couple of different signs that I look for. Generally, I look for people who aren't participating in the conversations, who don't speak up in meetings. People who have been doing the same work for an extended period of time. And, of course, you look for the signs of people who are not responsive. They're taking a ...

Join us on the next Count Me In as we delve into the world of accounting and finance with Megan Weiss, YP and General manager, FAO services and host of the CFO weekly podcast at Personiv. Learn about the talent shortage in the accounting industry, the benefits and challenges of outsourcing, and how recent events have impacted the profession. Don't miss this insightful conversation about the future of accounting and how companies can adapt to thrive. Connect with Megan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-weis/Check out the report mentioned in today's episode: https://insights.personiv.com/reports/cfo-talent-survey-reportFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Where we explore the world of accounting and finance with industry experts. Today we're thrilled to have Megan Weiss join us. With a rich background in accounting and consulting, Megan currently leads the Finance and Accounting Division at Personiv. She's here to share her insights into the talent shortage, in the accounting industry. The pros and cons of outsourcing, and how recent events like the Great Resignation and quiet quitting have shaped the profession. Let's dive in and learn from Megan's wealth of expertise and knowledge. So, Megan, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. And I wanted to start off, a little bit, by if you could just give us an overview of your background and how you got to where you are today. Megan:           Yes, sure, and thanks for having me. So I graduated with an undergraduate degree in accounting from Kent State University. I managed to pass the CPA in my final semester of school there. So right after school, I went to work for Deloitte & Touche, one of the Big Four accounting firms, and I was with their audit practice. I stayed and served my time for about three and a half years.  When I left there, I went to work for Pricewaterhouse Coopers in their transaction advisory services group. Where we were looking at helping organizations who were getting ready to purchase a business or sell a business, just to determine if it was a good fit. If they were paying a good price for the business.  From there I went to work for British Petroleum as a financial analyst. I left there after a couple of years to work for Accenture and that was back in 2003, and that was when I was introduced to the idea of outsourcing, it was pretty new back then. Not a lot of companies were doing it and the ones that did do it were very large enterprises.  So I stayed there for 13 years, and while I was with them I went back to school. I got my MBA from Duke University. I left Accenture to then work at a small boutique consulting firm here in Dallas, Texas. It's called Everest Group, and it is a consulting group that focuses on outsourcing service providers and companies with shared service providers.  And, so, my role there was to focus on finance and accounting and I was really looking at the service providers, and their visions for the future, and where the finance and accounting outsourcing industry was headed. And, then, while I was there, I did a project for the company I am at now, it's called Personiv. And the project I did for them was to take a look at lines of service that they should consider getting into.  So, although, they'd been around since the mid-'80s, finance and accounting was never really on their radar as something that they should maybe venture into. So during the course of that project, finance and accounting was one of the things that we suggested that they branch into. And, so, when they decided to go down that road they reached out to me, brought me on to start it up.  So I've been here now for five years, it's been a really exciting journey. It's like being in a startup organization, but with the backing of a company that's been around for 35 years. So that's how I got to where I am today. I feel like it's a good culmination of everything I've done to date. Adam:            Yes, that sounds great. You've had quite the story going of a bunch of different places, but it shapes who you are and how you see everything in the accounting world. And one thing that you and I had talked about is that there is a talent shortage, in the accounting and finance world, when it comes to having to outsource, it's because you have a talent shortage, and it's been around for over 15 years. Reading articles of people saying, "Oh, it just showed up during the pandemic." But as we talked about your experience, previously, you're saying, "Well, no, it's been around for a long time." Megan:           Yes, I mean, I would say it's been around for, at least, the last two decades. When you've read top challenges for CFOs, over the last two decades, talent has always been one or two, on that list. And, I think, it really started way back in the early 2000s, when they decided that they would make accounting a five-year program. In order to sit for the CPA, you needed a master's degree, and that's, maybe, when people stopped going into the study of accounting. And, really, it's been around and becoming more and more of a problem, every year since. And back in 2015, the AICPA, which stands for, actually, American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, and they were predicting that by 2020, 75% of their members would be retired. And I know not every accountant is a CPA, but that's a good indicator of where the profession is headed.  And, then, you add, on top of that, millennials and Gen Z's, who are looking for more meaningful work. And accounting, historically, has not necessarily been seen as an area that is conducive to meaningful work. So, yes, it's, definitely, been exasperated in the last three years since COVID hit, but it's been a problem for a long time coming. Adam:            So if you're in an organization and you recognize that, "Hey, I need more talent in my accounting team." What are some benefits that they can see when they think about outsourcing their accounting and finance team? Megan:           Yes, well, in the years past, outsourcing was really about just cutting cost, and it was all about the cost, savings. But, today, it's really about opening up a new pool of talent. A pool of talent that's equally qualified as the talent you would find, if you could, here in the United States.  So, yes, it really is just a wonderful way to find very talented accountants. And on top of that, if a client chooses, I mean, you can have 24-hours coverage. You can have people that work here in the United States. You can have a team that works over their days, which is on the other side of the world. So you're basically getting 24-hours coverage. But a lot of times, consultants or outsourcing providers, have people that are willing to work nights. Because that's not uncommon, in India or the Philippines, where a lot of this outsourcing is done, for people to work overnight in support of U.S. companies.  And as I mentioned, ...

Dive into the world of fintech with our latest episode of the Count Me In podcast, where we discuss the transformative power of financial technology for businesses of all sizes. Join us as we chat with Joe Keeley, the CEO of Justify, a company dedicated to accelerating the fintech potential of software platforms. Discover how companies can leverage fintech tools to reduce costs, enhance revenue, and offer new services to their customers. From the giants like Amazon and Starbucks to small businesses, the opportunities are endless. Don't miss this insightful conversation that will change the way you think about the financial landscape. Connect with Joe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joekeeley/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today we have a special guest, Joe Keeley, CEO of JustiFi. Joining us to discuss the world of fintech and its impact on business. We'll explore what fintech really means? How companies can harness its potential, and why it's important for businesses to understand the various tools available in the fintech toolbox. Joe will also share are some fascinating success stories and insights on how companies can thrive in this financial, technology-driven world. So let's get started and delve into this exciting world of fintech. So, Joe, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on and we're going to be covering the topic of fintech, and that is a big buzzword in the industry right now. And I was hoping that we can maybe start with defining where you fit in the fintech world, and we'll continue on from there. Joe:                 That's great, thanks for having me, Adam. And it is, I think, fintech is one of the biggest buzzwords that's out there. It's been said by leading venture capital firms that every company should be or will be a fintech company. So it's like, "Okay, well, that's a lot of pressure." So first of all, I think, we need to step back and say, "What is that mean?" I mean, it's just an abbreviation, just flat-footed, first, it's financial technology, which can mean so many different things. But, for us, the company that I lead is called JustiFi and we exist to do just that. To accelerate the potential or the fintech potential of other software platforms.  So in that context, it turns out that a lot of companies that are out there, one of their major, or their biggest, or only economic engine is not actually selling the product, or the service, or the access, then, that is there in plain sight.  So, for example, software platforms, there are many software platforms that sell a SaaS fee, and they charge you to use it. But that is simply the Trojan horse to get funds flow. So they're making money on payments. They're making money by offering additional fintech products like embedded insurance, embedded lending, card issuing.  So when you think about interchange that, deliberately, opaque monster that no one really seems to understand. You can make money and participate on interchange, by lowering your costs and keeping your price. And you can make money on interchange by participating at being high, too, by issuing cards. So there's just a lot in there. But, ultimately, what we do as a company is help platforms with their economic engine being fintech, and we provide infrastructure and a team to help them do that.  But it's interesting for all companies, not just software companies, to think about and try to understand what are the different tools in the fintech toolbox, and how could they be applicable to your business, big or small? Whether that be through cost reduction, or an area that's typically not talked about by finance and accounting professionals is enhancing the revenue. Adam:            Totally, and I think the other part of the problem that we run into, with every company being a fintech company is that, you and I were touching on this a little bit before we started recording, where does it live? Your IT team has to manage it and finance has to touch it, but nobody really owns it. And how can you really fully manage it if no one really owns the software, when it's within your company? Joe:                 Yes, and that is a really big issue. And part of our JustiFi, we have what we call our tech infrastructure, but we also have an engaged fintech team. Where we have a dedicated chief payments officer. A chief fintech officer that's available to our clients because they sit in between finance and accounting, and product and engineering or IT at a particular company. But I would think one of the things that I would really encourage and if multiple people own something, to your point, Adam, then nobody owns it.  But to finance and accounting professionals, to really take the ownership of how can we and challenging the status quo. Does this 3% need to be 3% when we collect or how could we think about differently on lowering cost?  How could we think differently on what adjacent revenue streams could be available to us. Where you're enhancing the offerings to your customers? It may not be the core product but, ultimately, it's been said that on every dollar in commerce, there's up to 10% of that. So a thousand basis points that is available and leaks out, whether that's in fees-in fees-out, early pay discounts, all of these different things.  So I would encourage from a strategic perspective, it's one that finance and accounting can own this. Implementation of how it's working is more product and engineering. Adam:            Of course, an example that comes to mind is I just saw an article, a couple of days ago. Where Amazon is going to start accepting Venmo as a payment option. And if the big behemoth, Amazon, can start accepting Venmo as a payment. What possibilities are there for every company to accept different types of payments, and be more creative using technology?  Joe:                 That's right and, sometimes, you're accepting a type of payment like Venmo or a buy now, pay later, and it's actually a more expensive payment method. Those are more expensive payment methods, then credit card and debit card, and then bank transfers, and ACH, going all the way down. And you do that because you're trying to get more customers or you're trying to ease the customer journey, the customer experience.  But in terms of every company being a fintech company, you want to make those choices with your eyes wide open. Because what if you could monetize or make money on that payment flow? And it takes certain kinds of architecture to do that. But just understanding the space, it's the first step. Why are we doing something? What is it actually going to cost? And there's just an immense amount of opportunity that exists there. But basis points can matter at scale, they very much matter at scale. Adam:            Yes, especially, when it's affecting your bottom line in the long run. Es...

Dive into the world of ESG (environmental, social, and governance) at IBM with our latest episode of Count Me In. Today we discuss the challenges and successes of implementing ESG objectives in a global corporation. Join our Guest John Mahoney, ESG External Reporting Project Manager and hear how IBM's commitment to sustainability, open communication, and cross-functional collaboration is driving positive change and shaping the future. If you want to learn how to navigate the complexities of ESG and unlock new opportunities, don't miss this episode!  Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmahoneycpa/ IBM Impact: IBM's ESG Framework | IBM Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're joined by John Mahoney, an ESG external reporting project manager, IBM. He shares his unique journey and insights into the company's approach to ESG integration. We discuss the importance of having the right company culture. Support from leadership, and cross functional collaboration to make ESG initiatives successful. So sit back and relax and let's explore how IBM is uniting for a sustainable future. Now, John, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to talk about ESG, and ESG at IBM. And, so, many professionals, in this space, have been reluctant to engage with ESG for a number of different reasons. But maybe you can start with talking about what your journey is, was to get here. John:              Of course, and my thanks to you, Adam, and the IMA, for having me. I'm excited to be a part of the Count Me In series, it's really great. In terms of my story, I'd say I've had a relatively conventional accounting background, in that I spent the first chunk of my career in public accounting. Splitting my time between audit and advisory services. Where I was fortunate to have the chance to work with some really great clients, and help them navigate through complex and challenging topics. Spanning from the adoption of accounting standards, acquisitions, carve-outs, stocks implementation, as well as, some SEC reporting jobs.  So I was really grateful to have seen so many different things, early on, in my career, in public, and I knew I wanted my next role to be dynamic as well. So I was very thankful to have landed at IBM. First joining the Accounting Practices and External Reporting Organization, which is really a consultative group focusing mostly on technical accounting consultations, as well as the preparation of IBM's periodic SEC filings.  I had always enjoyed the reporting aspect of the job, and helping companies craft their stories and messaging to external parties. So I knew I wanted to stay close to that and I was grateful that the opportunity at IBM afforded me that. So, as you can tell, I don't have an ESG background, but I did know I wanted to continue to explore new topics. And with all of that being said, I had been keeping an eye on the energy in the ESG space, and I had expressed interest to stay involved wherever possible within the group.  So when the opportunity arose to make it a full-time job, I jumped right in headfirst. And really saw this as a great chance to apply the skills that I've been working on, thus far, in my career to a new area and one that was not only hyper relevant, in the time, but also deeply purposeful in terms of subject matter.  We spend a lot of time working on dollars and cents related topics and working through financial statements, and this was just a really exciting opportunity to apply my skill set in a different forum. So, well, I can't speak to reluctance, personally, I'd even venture to say that we're probably passing the point of reluctance. But for those that are hesitant, I'd encourage everyone to engage and start exploring the topic and draft standards.  While it is gaining more momentum as a topic, there's still only a small amount of accounting folks that are focused on it currently. And with the rules still being written, it's a great chance to get in on the ground floor and establish yourself as a go-to person, not only within your organization, but really the space at large. So really excited to be a part of the journey, and keen to see where it takes me and all of us at large. Adam:            And I'm really excited to hear about your journey, as we've heard other people's journeys when it comes to ESG. I find that everybody's journey is different and I feel that that brings a real diversity of thought into the ESG space. Which is needed in something that's growing and something that's just starting out, you need to have many different perspectives. John:              I couldn't agree more, and everyone I've engaged with have been coming from a diverse background. And some folks have that key SEC reporting or accounting footing, and other folks, perhaps, have spent more time in true-blooded ESG functions, if you will. I think between the pending rule on SEC climate, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive in Europe, the ISSB standards, we just haven't seen anything of this magnitude all at once.  So bringing together a diverse group to really tackle this watershed moment for the profession. It's going to have broad impacts on not only finance and accounting organizations, but organizations for years to come. Adam:            Yes, definitely, so when organizations bring on ESG into their organization. You have to start combining the ESG objectives with the overall objectives of the organization. How does IBM go about harmonizing those objectives? John:              Yes, so, no surprise, IBM is a large company. We've got more than 280,000 employees, globally, operating in more than 170 countries. So with that scale, and for the scale of most large companies, there's always countless initiatives and objectives that need to coexist, simultaneously.  We are lucky in that IBM does have a great legacy with ESG just as it relates to climate. We incorporated our first environmental policy in 1971, and began reporting on CO2 emissions as early as 1994. But truly have a deep history in all three pillars of ESG. So that legacy is great, in that it not only gives us a head start in navigating the landscape and proposed rules. But it also has helped establish responsibilities within the organization, as well as avenues for communication between groups.  So really fortunate to have that legacy. But even with that head start, recent activity in the ESG space comes with even more and it adds incremental objectives that we all need to navigate. Including pending regulations that I've mentioned. Rating agency requests, shareholder needs, analyst inquiries, and countless other internal and external factors. So really important to emphasize how important that open lines of communication and regular touch points with different functions are. And, also, the importance of educational sessions to bring awareness of what other functions are managing and striving towards. Leadin...

In this episode of the Count Me In podcast, host Adam speaks with Matt Druckman, an expert in the field of crypto accounting, about the challenges of accounting for digital assets. With no authoritative guidance in place, Matt explains the framework of best practices and opinions that have been pulled together to guide the industry. However, as the nature of crypto and digital assets is changing rapidly, there is a need for increased vocalization and guidance from regulatory bodies such as the FASB. Matt also highlights the complexities of cost basis and accessing and making sense of data, which can present challenges for accountants as they try to categorize and report on digital assets. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the field of crypto accounting and the future of accounting for digital assets. Connect with Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-druckman-60a21938/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. The podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. In today's episode we explore the world of crypto accounting with Matt Druckman, currently, the Vice President of Business Development at Soft Ledger. A company focused on helping companies get their data faster.  Despite the existence of non-authoritative guidance, there is still no clear framework for crypto accounting. The lack of clarity is due to the, constantly, evolving nature of digital assets. Which are not easily categorized within traditional accounting practices. Join us as we navigate the Wild West of crypto accounting and discuss best practices for accounting, in this rapidly changing field. Matt, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast today. I'm really excited to be talking to you about crypto accounting. And, as everybody knows, Bitcoin has been around since 2008. But when you look at the authoritative guidance there is none, it feels like the Wild West. And maybe, as an expert in the field, you can talk a little bit about what it looks like to be in the crypto accounting space. Matt:              Great, thanks so much for having me on, Adam. Happy to get into this a little bit with you. You're exactly right, there is not authoritative guidance, yet, on the topic. What we have is non authoritative guidance. We have this framework of best practices and opinions, that have been pulled together that folks are following.  There's a really good practice aid that the AICPA put out on accounting and auditing digital assets, and that's proven to be very helpful. But there is not this authoritative framework for people to follow. So everyone's still figuring this out and the nature of crypto, and digital assets, and their evolution is it's this breakneck pace. Things are changing on a daily, weekly, basis.  So there's, definitely, a need and an increased vocalization to have this guidance in place. And it does look like the FASB is really starting to take a harder look at this, we'll probably get into it a little bit later. But there's been some momentum, recently, specifically, in October, but right now it's still early days. Adam:            So when we think about accounting. It's been the same since the 15th century, when the first accountants came into place and they were writing their entries. The accounting has pretty much been the same at its core. And when you look at digital assets, they don't really fit that core. And, so, what does that look like, especially, prior to this FASB vote that happened in October of 2022? Matt:              Yes, it's a great point. And, so, you have this new asset class, digital assets, come into play here, and we need to figure out a way to account for them. And, I think, that's where some of this complexity has really arisen, is trying to figure out where to put these. And then once you put them there, what guidance are we following? And there, probably, isn't a one-size-fits-all and that's what's happened. And, so, currently, or prior to this vote, digital assets, for the most part, were treated as intangible assets, and following the guidance within ASC 350. And, so, as a result, you also need to follow the impairment guidance that exists, and it doesn't quite match up with the economics of what's taking place with a lot of these assets. Where you have these very active markets, readily available prices.  And, so, the idea of marking down an asset, and pairing an asset, when there is an event, which would theoretically be anytime the price drops below cost. You're never going to be able to write that back up. And that just doesn't quite make sense, in terms of how people are viewing these assets, and how they're using them, and they're leading to some very material impacts on financial statements.  And, so, that in and of itself is an area that people have been very vocal about, and trying to take a better look at how these should be classified and updating how we're accounting for them. Adam:            So, Matt, are there any more complexities that accountants have to be aware of, as they're really getting into the nuts and bolts of this accounting? Matt:              Yes, the cost basis piece is definitely a tricky one that we've addressed, and that can present a lot of issues, especially, with higher volumes. But another one that should be known is just the accessing and making sense of your data. It sounds like something that should be so simple.  You have these series of transactions that are taking place on an exchange, or within a wallet, or on a blockchain. And you're just assuming that you can pull that data down, easily, and it's all going to make sense, and everything's going to be nicely categorized and classified the way you want to see it. And that's really just not the case, at least, not in all cases, some have better data outputs than others. But, especially, as you start to get into more complex transactions and, maybe, you're getting more involved in DFI's, or dealing with NFTs, or just different less-plain vanilla transactions, if you will. Being able to make sense of the data that you're pulling down, and tag that properly, and ensure that that's going to be getting into the system in a way that you want to report on it.  It can be a bit manual. There could be a process that needs to take place, to make sure that you're properly categorizing everything and getting it into the system. It's not just going to pop out of an exchange or another data source, and everything's going to be nice and neat. So I think that going into it, knowing that there's going to need to be some work there and probably some processes that need to be ironed out.  Certainly, if you have maybe a little bit more of a sophisticated operation, and you're capable of putting a business logic layer on top of that data before it gets into your platform. A system like ours, like Soft Ledger, that's programmable via API, that's one way that data could be ingested. So there are some things to help automate that and smooth that process, but it can be a bit manual. I would think that in the future, as there's more reg...

Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas co-founders of Advise  join Count Me In to talk about the current state of the market for accounting technology and the status of the industry today, which is constantly evolving. They discuss the lack of innovation in the accounting technology market and the pain points that practitioners face when using traditional tools. They share their vision for changing the status quo and making the accountant's job easier by reducing manual processes and reporting financial data more accurately and timely. The podcast also highlights the challenges of getting practitioners to adopt new technologies and the need for reimagining tasks to automate and reduce time spent on them. Connect with our speakers:Graham Stanton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamstanton/ Edgar Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgart1/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas, the co-founders of Avise. A company that provides accounting technology solutions. Both my guests have seen many pain points that accountants face daily, and have worked hard to build solutions that address those pain points.  Despite the available innovation, practitioners still use the same tools from 15 to 20 years ago because of the lack of penetration by newer tools. Both Graham and Edgar share their vision of making an accountant's job easier and reducing manual processes. Join us as we discuss how technology can help accountants and the challenges they face, adopting new technology.  Adam:            Graham, Edgar, I just want to thank you both for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have the co-founders of Avise on the podcast with us, today. And today we're going to talk about accounting technology. And I figure we could start off by discussing what is the current state of the market for accounting technology, and the status of the industry, today? Because it's constantly moving and evolving. Edgar:            Yes, thank you, Adam, really appreciate you having us both on, today. And, yes, it's a topic that we both feel very passionately about. For me, as an inactive CPA, but a practitioner that has worked with a lot of accounting tools, I've seen it from both sides.  So, right now, as an entrepreneur, building a solution that solves a lot of the pain points that I saw in the marketplace. But also the pain points that we're getting feedback from our current clients and prospects of our own. It is an exciting time to be looking at it because there is a lot of innovation going on today. But quite, frankly, practitioners, today, are doing a lot of the same thing and using a lot of the same tools they were using 15, 20 years ago. Because there's been such little penetration by the tools out there, today, available.  So when I was practicing as an in-house accountant, a lot of the tools I found lacked the vision or the understanding of what a practitioner needed to do. So they were focused more on FP&A and other finance functions. But didn't really focus on improving the lives of the core accounting suite. That the accountants had to do their jobs in on a day-in and a day-out basis.  So if you go and talk to an in-house accountant, at a company, and they talk about their close. And they say that it's five days, it's 10 days, it's 15 days, or maybe even 30 days long. And when you, actually, dissect the things that they're doing, you immediately see opportunities for improvement based on the tools that are available today, but are not available to the accountants, yet.  So that's one of the things that I feel very passionate about. Changing that and making it so that the accountants benefit from a lot of the tools and a lot of the innovation that we see elsewhere in the finance tech stack. So when it comes to tools like the ones we're building at Avise it's really focused on how do we make the accountant's job easier. To close the books, report out the information, the financial data more accurately and in a timely fashion, and reduce a lot of the manual processes. Graham:        I'll add to that a little bit. Obviously, Edgar and I share this vision here, and when we were getting started there's a lot of real pain coming through in our discussions. I previously worked somewhat cross-functionally and had a lot of experience with the tools that the marketers get, and that data engineers get. Ultimately, FP&A was starting to get, and, for whatever reason, the accountants have been at the end of the line. And there's been a lot of attitude of, "Well, accountants are paid to do this busy work, so what's the problem here?" And it's unfortunate, and, thankfully, accountants are starting to wake up and saying, "Well, it's the year 2022, almost 2023, we don't need to put up with this anymore." Adam:            And I think sometimes the biggest thing is that if it's not broke, they don't want to try to fix it. We've been doing the same thing and using the same technology for 15, 20 years, as Edgar was saying. But why change things up and mess it up? What do you guys think is the biggest problem with the current technology, the state of the technology as it is today? Edgar mentioned some of those things, people are trying to cut down the close, and those are some of the big problems that they're dealing with. But what's the problem with the actual technology that you think is causing them to not adopt it as fastly as possible? Edgar:            Yes, I can take this, I like the way your insight there is that, for a lot of folks they accept this status quo as, like "This is the way things are and should be, or will continue to be." One of the things I really enjoy about my job today is that as we show our tool to folks, the response is very common one. Where it's just like, "Oh, I didn't even know that that was possible, or I didn't even think about how much time it took for me to do that task." So a simple thing like a reconciliation month in and month out, may take an accountant 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours, and it's just an accepted part of the job, "My job is to reconcile an account." But then when you reimagine what a reconciliation is, and you automate a lot of the components of that reconciliation, and reduce that from 30 minutes down to five minutes, a light bulb goes off. It's just like, "Okay, these are minutes, hours, of my life that I can get back, and I can do more value added things for the business besides a lot of these things, which are, quite frankly, busy work." So one of the things that we've come across is that there's a lack of knowledge. I've never seen this before among my accounting friends. I've never seen something like this before. And then it's like maybe a hesitation, like you said, "If it isn't broke don't fix it." If I know the system has been around since 1970 and, literally, my predecessors have been doing this, I know it works, and I will continue to do it.  So it is a really exciting journey that we've been on at...

IMA is celebrating International Women's Day on March 8th to commemorate the cultural, political, and socioeconomic achievements of women.  In this special Count Me In podcast Yvonne Barber, CFO, HR Knowledge Source, discusses how the pandemic affected female small business owners and how some used management accounting strategies to help them become more  resilient. Connect with Yvonne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yvonnebarber/Episode Transcript:Margaret:       Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Margaret Michaels. Every March, IMA celebrates International Women's Day. A day recognizing the unique contributions and accomplishments of women.  Embracing equity is the theme of this year's celebration. Questions of equity are prevalent when speaking about women and the workplace. Nowhere is equity defined as the promotion of justice, impartiality, and fairness. Within the procedures, processes, and distribution of resources, according to IMA's Diversifying U.S. Accounting Talent Report. More important than in the realm of small business. Where female, small business owners account for 21.4% or 1.24 million of all small businesses in the U.S., according to the Census Bureau.  Today, I am here with Yvonne Barber, CFO of HR Knowledge Source and IMA's Small Business Committee Chair. To discuss how the pandemic affected female small business owners. And how some used management accounting strategies to help them become more resilient.  We will consider the challenges these owners face in a competitive, post-pandemic business environment. And the ways strong management accounting principles, can help them operate their businesses more efficiently and profitably. Thank you for being here today, Yvonne. Yvonne:          Thank you for having me. Margaret:       So I guess we'll start with looking back at the pandemic. Which really did bring a lot of attention to small business owners and their challenges. At the height of the pandemic, you worked for Blue Abacus Solutions. An accounting services firm specializing in small businesses. Small businesses took a huge hit during the pandemic. With quarantines, social distancing rules, and employee turnover affecting their ability to operate and stay profitable.  According to the World Economic Forum's Global Entrepreneurship Monitor, female small business owners were hit harder than men. With women 20% more likely than men to report business closures, due to the pandemic. Can you offer some perspective on why female-owned businesses were especially at risk? Yvonne:          Sure, in addition to the resource that you mentioned. I've researched this topic to develop a better understanding of the challenges faced by small businesses. So that the IMA's Small Business Committee, where I serve, can offer the support needed to the small business community.  And I found that the biggest factor to be the lack of access to funding and capital. A majority of female entrepreneurs self-fund their business. And this can limit the ability to scale their business or invest in the needed resources, to improve operations.  One of the things that small businesses, in general, struggle with is looking forward at what's coming, as opposed to reacting to what's currently on their plate. And I think that is where a lot of small businesses found themselves.  They just weren't in a position to handle what the pandemic served out to them, and that is one of the biggest factors. But among that, bias among customers was also listed as another factor.  Now, this may not be a great obstacle for some women. Especially, here in the United States, I think we've made a lot of progress in that area. But I found several studies, throughout the world, that found customers are less likely to purchase goods or services from women-owned businesses.  So there's a variety of reasons that women were impacted as they were. And I think it's difficult to offer a one-size-fits-all approach to this. I think, instead, it's good to look at each individual item. And address as it pertains to your business, as a female-owned business or a small business owner in general. Margaret:       Yes, those are great points and I think the funding issue is very top of mind. And that's really interesting, the bias, I never thought about that. But women experience bias in a lot of realms. So it shouldn't be surprising that it's also prevalent in small business ownership and customer choices. Those are great points. Yvonne:          Yes, that surprised me as well. Just because my perspective here, being in the United States, I think that we've learned to navigate that a little better. But in that The Small Business Committee, we serve a global membership. I am interested in what the challenges are for our membership. All over the world, not just here in the United States. So that was surprising to me. But it was helpful to see the information, so that I'm in a better position to offer what's needed for our members. Margaret:       And the IMA's Small Business Committee does a great job, with helping members who are struggling with these issues. In fact, IMA's Small Business Committee published two important reports, to help guide small businesses through the COVID crisis, and to help them stay resilient post pandemic.  I wonder what differentiated the businesses, who managed through the crisis versus the ones who failed? And from your perspective, why is it difficult, when you are a small business owner, to address both short-term crises and long-term strategy? Yvonne:          I think the businesses who survived focused on sustainability and leveraged strong relationships, and a diverse network of sources to meet their needs. Those who prioritized relationships were just better positioned to survive the storm. The relationships include the customers, suppliers, as well as employees. And it can be tough to think about tomorrow when you're just trying to survive another week.  I know a lot of small business owners. I know they're just trying to make payroll. But making short-term decisions that impact the long-term sustainability of a company, they may seem to help the short-term, but ultimately they do end up hurting the company. Margaret:       I think that's something that even mid and large-sized businesses grapple with, is that balance between the short-term and the long-term. And not having those short-term decisions affect your ability to operate in the long-term. So that's absolutely on point.  And now, as the immediate crisis of COVID passes, new risks are also emerging for small businesses. These include worker shortages, failure to embrace digitization, inflation, and supply chain disruptions. And without the resources that larger size companies enjoy. How can small businesses mitigate these risks? Yvonne:    &...

Today we're excited to have Robert Cooke, the founder and Principal Architect of 3Forge, a New York-based fintech company that focuses on solving complex data problems in the accounting world. Robert joins Count Me In to share his story about his lifelong passion for computers and his journey to founding 3Forge. He breaks down the three buckets of data that the company focuses on: real-time streaming of data, asking computers about data, and data entry. Robert emphasizes the importance of having the right technology in place to analyze data properly and shares his experience working with various organizations to solve their data problems. Join us as we explore the fascinating world of fintech and data.Episode Transcript: Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. The podcast, where we examine all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm Adam Larson, and I'm excited to introduce our speaker today, Robert Cooke. Robert is the founder and principal architect at 3Forge, a New York-based provider of data visualization and visualization technology. Today, Robert and I discuss his passion on the interrelationship between computers, people, and data. And describes the future trends he expects to see in data management.  Businesses of all sizes can gain value through using data to optimize and streamline their business. And we discuss how the technology chosen plays a role in driving a competitive advantage. Let's listen in to learn more. Well, Robert, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to talk about you and your organization, and fintech. And before we go there, I just wanted to start with maybe you could tell a little bit about your story and how you got to where you are? Robert:           Okay, yes, great, Adam, thanks for having me on today. So my story is I'm a lover of all things computers. I've been into computers my whole life, ever since when I was a little kid. I went through the natural learning curve, which is, originally, I wanted to build video games, and this is in the early '80s. So I was focusing on what does it mean to write efficient code and things along those lines. And then later on, we had this club, and in the club people could buy sodas and buy candy bars, and things like that and it was like a Boy Scouts equivalent. But it was all being paper-driven in terms of the accounting and everything. And I felt, "Well, this is a great opportunity for computers." And that's when I realized, wow, computers, as a kid, I always saw video games, and I realized these really are business machines, they can really help streamline things. And, so, our little club was actually, probably, one of the first grade school clubs to, actually, be managed through electric accounting.  Now, I'm embarrassed by the system I built at the time it was very hardcoded for sodas and candy bars, but it still got me started on the concept. So I've really spent my whole life thinking about, abstractly, what it means to connect humans to data. And that can take you in a lot of places.  And then I ended up working in fintech, it was Bear Stearns, it was in 2002. And I was head of infrastructure at the dark pool Liquidnet. My work product has been at many of the tier-one banks, but all the while it's been this, I would say my story has been one of interest in computers and interested in how humans and data interact. Adam:            And that's a huge part of, especially, in the accounting world. Where you have to understand where your data is and what your data is doing. To be able to visualize it properly, to give the right reports to your CEO and all of those items. And, so, we all understand how important data is. What does your organization, what does 3Forge do in terms of data? How do they look at data?Robert:           Well, I look at data, I've actually broken the problem down into three buckets. I think two of which are very important for accounting. But to be exhaustive, I'll go through all three of them. The first bucket is what I would call real-time streaming of data. And that is not necessarily as important for this conversation, but it is something that we focus on as well. So the idea is, as data is taking place somewhere you want to be able to have that streaming in, and as a human be able to read that in real-time.  An example I could give is, if you think of, at this point, cars are pretty advanced. That dashboard in your car, that's real-time streaming information coming to you, telling you your speed limit. You don't have to ask the car, "What's my speed limit?" It's just always showing it to you, that's real-time. I think very cool things could be done in accounting with that, as you start to move into workflows, but I'll digress on that.  The second thing is what I would call asking your computer about data. And, so, a very simple analogy would be you simply go on to Google and you type in, "Who is Adam Larson?" And then it comes up and gives you an answer. That would be you, a human, invoking a question, asking the computer and the computer comes back, that's the second thing.  And then the third thing is data entry, which is pretty much what it sounds like. The ability to fill out a form, hit Submit and send that. And then that goes into the computer. Maybe it goes through some validity, maybe it goes through some workflow process, with the ability to enter data. So, to recap, we break it into three buckets–  Data moving in real-time.The ability to ask questions about data.And the ability to enter data.  And I think one of the cool things is, and this is like decades to come up with this answer. It almost seems embarrassing because it seems so simple, at the end of the day. But once you've thought about it in those three buckets, you can really start to tackle just about any problem that comes your way. And, frankly, accounting has some of the most deceptively, challenging problems there is.  I mean, some of the systems that I've seen built on our platform are way beyond my understanding, to be quite frank. You know what I mean? But there's a lot that goes into it. Adam:            Yes, there is a lot that goes into it. So that just goes to show it's really important to have the right technology in place, at your organization. To make sure that you can analyze your data properly. What have you seen as you've worked with many organizations. As they come to you with different problems and having to work through their data issues? Robert:           Well, it's interesting because it goes without saying that Excel is the predominant piece of software being used. And Excel, I'm sure if I look, I've got five monitors here, I'm sure if I look around enough I'll find Excel up on one of them for something. And, I think, Excel is an incredibly powerful tool for certain activities, especially, if you're trying to mock things up quickly. You're trying to aggregate some data, maybe determine interest rates, something like that it's very good for that.  But I do think it has a tendency to be overused, to the point of abused, and I think a lot of people would agree. But a...