

On the Media
WNYC Studios
The Peabody Award-winning On the Media podcast is your guide to examining how the media sausage is made. Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger examine threats to free speech and government transparency, cast a skeptical eye on media coverage of the week’s big stories and unravel hidden political narratives in everything we read, watch and hear.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 28, 2023 • 52min
To Catch a War Criminal
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President Biden just ordered U.S. investigators to share evidence of Russian war crimes with The International Criminal Court. On this week’s On the Media, what will it take to secure justice for Ukraine? Plus, a moving look back at the early days of the conflict.
1. Mstyslav Chernov [@mstyslav9], a video journalist for the Associated Press and director, on the making of the documentary, "20 Days in Mariupol," and what footage from Ukrainian frontlines didn't make it to American newsreels. Listen.
2. Deborah Amos [@deborahamos], a veteran Middle East correspondent and this week's guest co-host, on how war crime investigators focusing on Ukraine first learned how to document war crimes in Syria, and what this means for holding Russia accountable. Listen.
3. Nathaniel Raymond [@nattyray11], war crimes investigator and Executive Director of Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab, about his report confirming the Russian government held at least six thousand Ukrainian children in re-education camps. Listen.
4. Philippe Sands [@philippesands], professor of law at University College London, on why Western nations are hesitant to charge Putin for the “crime of aggression.” Listen.
Music:The Glass House (End Title) -David Bergeaud
Yesterdays - Fred Hersch and Bill Frizell When Doves Cry (Prince) -Starr Parodi
Whispers of a Heavenly Death - John ZornBertotim - John Zorn
Night Thoughts - John ZornRobert’s Sermon - John Renbourn
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 26, 2023 • 8min
Investigating Russia's War Crimes Against Ukrainian Children
The researchers at Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab gather in a carpeted underground bunker, beneath the campus library, to steadily gather evidence of Russia's alleged war crimes. In a report published earlier this year, in collaboration with the State Department, they presented evidence of the Russian government operating more than 40 child custody centers for Ukrainian children who have been forcibly removed from their homes to Russia. On the other hand, Russia's embassy in Washington has claimed that the children were forced to flee to safety due to the war. About a month later, on March 17, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Russian president Vladimir Putin, accusing him of the war crime of illegally deporting children from Ukraine. For this week's midweek podcast, we're airing a piece by our guest co-host Deborah Amos, first broadcast by NPR's Morning Edition in February, in which she reported on the devastating evidence unearthed by the Yale researchers, and what this means for leveraging accountability against Putin.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 21, 2023 • 51min
Staying Alive
This year has seen record layoffs in the media industry, with some digital news giants closing down altogether. On this week’s On the Media, how did The New York Times rise to the top of the bleeding news business? Plus, instead of reaching for top profits, some new publications have opted for a humbler mission: survival.
1. Ben Smith [@semaforben], editor-in-chief and co-founder of Semafor, on what went wrong for BuzzFeed News, and why digital media is splintering. Listen.
2. OTM correspondent Micah Loewinger [@MicahLoewinger] examines why The New York Times is expanding, and thriving, even amongst record layoffs at other media outlets. Listen.
3. OTM correspondent Micah Loewinger [@MicahLoewinger] takes a look at a growing cohort of new outlets around the US trying to wrestle journalism away from big capital through a co-operative business model. Listen.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 18, 2023 • 41min
A. G. Sulzberger on Bias and Objectivity at The New York Times
For the big show this weekend OTM correspondent Micah Loewinger is working on a piece about the extraordinary transformation of the New York Times from a struggling newspaper into a digital behemoth. In the meantime, and as kind of background research for you guys, we’re airing a fascinating interview about the Grey Lady from our colleagues at the New Yorker Radio Hour. Host David Remnick spoke to A. G. Sulzberger, the publisher of The New York Times, whose family has owned the paper since 1896. Sulzberger says he wants to push back on a culture of “certitude” in journalism. “In this hyper-politicized, hyper-polarized moment, is society benefiting from every single player getting deeper and deeper, and louder and louder, about declaring their personal allegiances and loyalties and preferences?” he asks.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 14, 2023 • 51min
Money, Money, Money
Over the past year, the federal reserve has raised interest rates repeatedly in its attempt to curb inflation. On this week’s On The Media, is greed to blame for our inflation woes? Plus, how a century-long PR campaign taught Americans to love the free market and loathe their own government.
1. Lydia DePillis [@lydiadepillis], economy reporter at The New York Times, on what "greedflation" actually is. Listen.
2. Naomi Oreskes [@NaomiOreskes], professor of the history of science at Harvard University and the co-author, with Erik M. Conway, of “The Big Myth: How American Business Taught Us to Loathe Government and Love the Free Market,” on century-old PR campaign, conducted by big business, to imbue Americans with a quasi-religious belief in the free market. Listen.
3. China Miéville, a speculative fiction writer and author of the recent book, "A Spectre, Haunting: On the Communist Manifesto," on the ebb and flow of the text’s popularity through the decades, and what we might draw from it today. Listen.Music:Nocturne No.1 in B-Flat Major Op.9. No1 (Chopin) - Ivan MoravecBallade No. 2 in F, Op. 38 (Chopin) - Maurizio PolliniMarch for the 3rd Regiment of Foot - Liberty Tree Wind PlayersThe New East Louis Toodle-Oo (Duke Ellington)The People United Will Never Be Defeated - Carla Bley, Charlie Haden, Don CherryStolen Moments - Ahmad Jamal Trio
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 12, 2023 • 17min
The Decline of AM Radio Will Hurt More Than Conservative Talk Shows
This spring, Volkswagen and Mazda announced that they will be removing AM radios from their upcoming fleets of electric vehicles.Tesla, BMW, Audi, and Volvo have already gotten rid of AM radios in their electric fleet. The automakers cited engineering difficulties. AM's already crackly reception is vulnerable to even more buzz and interference when installed near an electric motor. This announcement, however, incited a burst of outrage from conservative talk radio hosts, such as Charlie Kirk, who called it an "all-out attack on AM radio," and Mark Levin, who claimed, "they finally figured out how to attack conservative talk radio." But it isn't just conservatives lambasting the automakers' moves — a bipartisan group of lawmakers are joining forces to stop the exclusion of AM radios from these cars. In May, Senator Ed Markey and Representative Josh Gottheimer, both Democrats, helped introduce bills that would require car companies to include AM radios. And in late June, Senators Ted Cruz and Ed Markey co-wrote a letter to seven major automakers asking them to commit by July 7 to keep radios in new vehicles. For the midweek podcast, OTM correspondent Micah Loewinger speaks with Katie Thornton, a freelance journalist and host of OTM's Peabody Award-winning miniseries, "The Divided Dial," about the dangerous myth of AM radio's reputation as a solely conservative platform, the medium's potential as a highly accessible source of local news, and what this story means for the future of AM radio.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 7, 2023 • 51min
I, Robot
This year, headlines have been dominated by claims that artificial intelligence will either save humanity – or end us. On this week’s On the Media, a reckoning with the capabilities of programs like ChatGPT, and declarations that machines can think. Plus, the potential implications of handing over decision-making to computers.
1. Tina Tallon [@ttallon], assistant professor of A.I. and the Arts at the University of Florida, on the love-hate relationship with AI technology over the past 70 years, and Nitasha Tiku [@nitashatiku], tech culture reporter for The Washington Post, on what ChatGPT can actually do. Listen.
2. Geoffrey Hinton [@geoffreyhinton], a cognitive psychologist and computer scientist, on holograms, memories, and the origins of neural networks. Listen.3. Matt Devost [@MattDevost], international cybersecurity expert and CEO and co-founder of the global strategic advisory firm OODA llc., on the rise of AI-powered weapons and what it means for the future of warfare. Listen.
Music:Original music by Tina TallonHorizon 12.2 by Thomas NewmanBubble Wrap by Thomas NewmanSeventy-two Degrees and Sunny by Thomas NewmanEye Surgery by Thomas NewmanFinal Retribution by John ZornLachrymose Fairy by Thomas Newman
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jul 5, 2023 • 14min
Why the Supreme Court Broke Up Hollywood's Studio System
The dominance of giant streaming services like Netflix and Disney Plus has led to the current strike by television writers, who say their ubiquity has led to lower pay, shakier job security, and perhaps even worse writing. In order to understand our current media moment, historian Peter Labuza directs us to a pivotal time for the film industry, when the government successfully broke up the major studios that ruled Hollywood in the 1930s and ‘40s. Earlier this year, OTM correspondent Micah Loewinger asked Labuza about how independent film flourished in the aftermath, and the lessons that apply to media in 2023.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jun 30, 2023 • 51min
On the Trail With RFK Jr.
Almost as soon as an armed rebellion flared in Russia last week, it fizzled. On this week’s On the Media, how the brief revolt compares to military coups from history, and how it’s different. Plus, how to cover a new kind of conspiracy theory candidate, and what it might mean for the country.
1. Naunihal Singh [@naunihalpublic], author of "Seizing Power: The Strategic Logic of Military Coups," on the brief rebellion in Russia, and how paying attention to the narratives in the aftermath of the mutiny is equally as important as the mutiny itself. Listen.
2. Anna Merlan [@annamerlan], author of "Republic of Lies: American Conspiracy Theorists and Their Surprising Rise to Power," on the mistake the media have made in covering RFK Jr. Listen.
3. Claire Wardle [@cward1e], co-founder and co-director of the Information Futures Lab at the Brown School of Public Health, on the backlash to content moderation, and the impacts of these changes as candidates like RFK Jr., an anti-vaccine activist, enter the 2024 presidential race. Listen.
4. Paul Offit [@DrPaulOffit], a pediatrician specializing in infectious diseases, vaccines, immunology, and virology and the co-inventor of a rotavirus vaccine, on the science community's response to RFK Jr. over the years, and the dangers of elevating such conspiracies to the White House. Listen.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jun 28, 2023 • 15min
Trump Caught On Tape Talking About Classified Documents
On Monday, CNN aired a bombshell recording in the classified documents case against former president Donald Trump. The recording, released to CNN by the special counsel working on the Department of Justice’s indictment of Trump, is reportedly of a 2021 meeting in Bedminster, New Jersey, where Trump discussed and seemingly showed secret documents to a group of onlookers. It was just the latest revelation in the government's case against the former president. Classified documents that belonged to former high-level government officials, including but not limited to former President Trump, former Vice President Pence, and President Biden, have been found in unauthorized locations in recent months. These cases vary greatly in volume and severity, but they point to a larger, systemic problem in the American government: the problem of overclassification. The latest data that the government released, in 2017, showed that around 50 million government documents are classified a year by over four million people, including outside government contractors, costing American taxpayers around $18 million, says Oona Hathaway, professor of law at Yale Law School, former special counsel to the Pentagon, and author of the Foreign Affairs article "Keeping the Wrong Secrets." In this conversation with Brooke, Hathaway talks about the incentives driving government employees to classify so many documents, the differences between the Trump and Biden document dramas, and why labeling so many things as "secret" makes these secrets less safe.
This is a segment originally aired on our January 27, 2023 show, Sorry, That’s Classified.
On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.