The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast

GE Vernova is making bold moves in Australia with their Cypress 6MW workhorse turbine. With a renewed focus on power production and reliability, GE Vernova’s Nicholas McVey – ANZ Service Director highlights all the changes with Joel and Allen. GE Vernova Australia is looking for qualified technicians and electricians to join their team. Contact Nicholas on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/nicholas-mcvey-2802bb5b or via email at Nicholas.McVey@ge.com. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comJoin us at The Wind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Welcome to Uptime Spotlight. Shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow.  Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast Spotlight. I’m your host, Allen Hall, along with my co host, Joel Saxum. Today, we’re joined by Nicholas McVey, Service Director at GE Vernova, where he leads operations and maintenance for wind farms across Australia and New Zealand. With over 15 years of experience in operations and commercial leadership roles, Nicholas brings valuable insights on maximizing wind farm performance and implementing strategic upgrades. Prior to his current role, he served as Contract Performance Manager at GE Vernova and has extensive experience in project management and commercial operations. Nicholas, welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast Spotlight. We have a global audience that is listening to this episode for sure. And I would like to know, and I think a lot of people would like to know, what are some of the challenges you have in Australia in regards to turbines and O& M? Because it does seem like a relatively harsh environment. Nicholas McVey: Look, of course Australia is a harsh environment. We’re very different environments. We’ve got and we call it down here the tyranny of distance. So we’ve got a lot of different got wind farms in a place called Broken Hill, which is, almost in the middle of Australia. Extremely hot, extremely dry, lots of dust, sand. A lot of challenges specific to that environment. We’ve also got a wind farm in in the snowy mountains, we’ve got, one of the things about Australia is that you’ve got every environment you can think of in the one place. From an environment perspective, it’s harsh.  Joel Saxum: I know when I first heard actually Rosemary on the podcast, talk about going to the snowy mountains. I was like, there’s not snow in Australia. What are you talking about? Cause from a American, I didn’t think that. And then she’s yeah, of course we, she’s we have jungles, we have deserts, we have extreme heat, we have snow, we have cold, we have all these things. And of course, like you said, the size. So all of that from an O and M’s perspective, because Nicholas, that’s what you do every day. You’re concentrated on. The operations and maintenance of GE’s turbines within Australia. That creates Logistical nightmares. It also creates a lot of different problems, right? So if we’re talking about the turbines that are out in the dust there, it doesn’t matter what OEM it is. You’re going to have leading edge erosion issues, and you’re going to have different things that pop up based on that environment.  Allen Hall: So Nicholas, how big is the organization you run in Australia? Because I think the sense of scale would be helpful here. I know you’re scattered all around Australia and Australia is a gigantic country. There’s a lot of square miles in Australia. How many people do you have and how many turbines are you trying to cover right now?  Nicholas McVey: Yeah. We’ve got we’ve got 674 active turbines, over 12 sites. And and obviously Australia is growing exponentially at the moment. We’ve got a pipeline to get to about a thousand in the next five years. Obviously a big part of that it’s our partnership with Squadron and there’s a lot of a lot of projects on the, on the horizon. So yeah it’s a big business. We’ve got the operations and maintenance, we run a hybrid resource model. So we’ve got about 40 technicians on the ground and then we work with contractors. So that’s our kind of base resource. And then we have, we work with contract partners on various things from annual maintenance Through to our inspection regimes and our blade work, et cetera. So yeah, no, it’s a growing business.  Allen Hall: What size turbines do you use in Australia? In the U S a lot of them are two megawatt machines primarily, but in Europe, they tend to be much larger. What’s the focus in Australia?  Nicholas McVey: So we have predominantly three X at the moment. So our current fleet is mostly three X. We’ve got two Cypress sites. Okay. And from going forward we’re only selling Cypress in Australia. We’ve got the two types of Cypress in Australia. We’ve got the the six megawatt 158s and we have that there’s a one called Bangon and one called Marawara and another called Goita. So we’ve got three sites with that model. And then going forward we’re selling the Mark two, if you will, Cypress, which is a six megawatt 164. And that’s our workhorse product. So that’s our global workhorse Cypress product that is being assembled and shipped from Schenectady. And and it’s a really exciting product. I was there very recently and Schenectady got to see it on the factory floor. And it’s a really impressive machine and we’re extremely excited to have it here.  Joel Saxum: I think that’s a really exciting thing for that Australian market going forward. Cause when you talk about it, like engineering is difficult. Engineering for 15 different models of turbines is 15 times harder, right? You have all of those intricacies built in for all this little, that little of that. So when you talk about, Hey, we’re moving forward. We’re going to have one workhorse type machine. That’s what we’re going to sell onto this market. It’s, it gives you guys the ability as GE service and operations. To really hone in on these are the exact things we know this, you’re going to know that machine in and out. So that’s the plan going forward. What do you see for the, like the technicians? Are you guys going to be training and putting them into some training abroad or training ahead of time before those things get moving? What’s the plan there?  Nicholas McVey: Yeah, absolutely Joel, both, we’re, we want to be absolute experts in our product, right? That’s where we’re going. We want to be GE, we are our GE technicians, the GE experts in a GE product. And we appreciate that it’s a flexible market and that our customers are going to want. Differing types of O& M. So they’re going to want a full FSA, but some might want, self performance and they may rely really heavily on our engineering and product expertise while they perform, the farm themselves. Yeah. So we’re putting a lot of effort going forward into both local training, but also, getting people over to the U S in particular to do exactly what I just did, which is learn about the new Cyprus, the differences between the old and the new Cyprus and also get on the floor and see it being made. So that they can come back and be absolute experts in this product.  Joel Saxum: So that leads me to another question. A little bit ago we talked about resourcing, right? Australia’s an island. It’s sometimes tough to get resources there. And one of the most important resources in anything is people. So how are you guys how are you attracting technicians in and training them up? And what does that look like from your chair?  Nicholas McVey: Yeah, no, it’s a really challenging area. In, in Australia, there’s a, it’s pretty well documented that there’s a significant shortage in electricians in Australia. And I think there’s something like 32, 000 needed by 2050 or something like that. It could be earlier than that, but but there’s a lot of electricians needed in Australia, not just for wind but across the board. We’re really and I guess we really want to be a little bit different in the way that we, hire and and treat our people, we want our technicians to be GE technicians. We want them to be, really buy in and really want to be part of GE and see where this company is going. So I guess on that point, we’re really moving away from an O& M perspective. We’re really moving away from the FIFO model. And and really investing in local talent and that doesn’t necessarily have to be wind talent. We’re really investing in the transition. We’ve had a lot of people over the last sort of 12, 18 months that have come into wind straight out of a mine. And and they’ve never seen a wind turbine before, but they’re. Really experienced electricians, got a really great safety record, mature mature talent and we’re just showing them the wind industry and really grabbing onto that really amazing talent and experience and then applying it to to, to turbines. We’re finding that is really working. Sure. It takes a little bit longer and, we, we allow six months for somebody to get up to speed and get through their training and get through their understanding of GE as well. GE is, Vinnova is a. A company that is an extremely large company with its own nuances and systems and and ways of working. So we’ve got to get them into that as well. But no, we’ve seen some fantastic results. And I guess the key thing there is that we’re not necessarily looking for people that have wind experience. We’re looking for, we’re looking to get the best talent, in a local area so that they can go home every day, and have a really great work life balance as well. Allen Hall: So in, in terms of scale then, as Vernova is going to grow substantially in Australia, how are you trying to manage that? You’re bringing in Cypress turbines, those are big turbines, six megawatts are big machines, and sort of the scale, Squadron Energy being one of your larger customers there, how do Also in terms of scale, a really big renewable investment coming from Squadron, that’s a lot of ramp up in a short amount of time. How do you try to capture that? How do you try to plan for that? Because it does seem a monumental task for you, Nicholas. The key  Nicholas McVey: is planning, right? And looking ahead, understanding our pipeline, knowing is knowing that the, where things are and those areas. And I think, the local hiring strategy and and also, really working with our parts and tooling teams and, it is key and getting ahead of that, and so we’re putting a lot of. A lot of work in future planning to make sure that we understand our supply chain. We understand when things are turning out but also, having a really great strategy around, okay, where are our parts located from an ONF perspective? Which ones are, from the site to the local warehouses to our, APAC warehouses, so one of the, one of the good things about being Australia is you’re not that far from China. We can have some really great lead times, coming from China, as long as we understand that and know that, we can really, we can plan ahead and we can make sure that we’ve got enough in country. For the immediate needs, but also, we’ve got some really great safety spares that aren’t very far away. Allen Hall: Yeah. The planning for parts is so critical to future success. I know in the States right now, getting access to some parts is really difficult. And some of those parts are made in country. It’s just a supply chain issues and trying to address that ahead of time with a workhorse product. Makes infinite sense. The decision to even to do that simplifies your supply chain greatly. It’s such a smart move. Does that, then, as you’re planning ahead you’re, are you, and you’re going away from the hub and spoke model, which also congratulations on doing, because I think a lot of technicians really would appreciate that in Australia. Those two things really set you up for future growth, and I know when we podcast quite a bit, Full service agreements always come up, that we see some really long 30 year full service agreements, which just seem out of norm with the rest of the world. What is GE’s, Vernova’s approach to FSAs in Australia going forward? Are you looking towards longer 10 ish, 15 year kind of contracts or are you looking more towards the five year FSA agreements?  Nicholas McVey: Yeah, no, it’s a great question. Generally speaking so we’ve, we have significantly changed our strategy there in Australia. So we, we do have currently on foot some 20, 30 year contracts where we’re not signing those contracts anymore. We’re signing short term contracts, five, 10 year contracts, and we’re also completely out of EPC. So we’re focusing on what we do well. We’re focusing on turbines. And from an O& M perspective with that with that five, 10 year, the reason for that is, is essentially twofold. The first is to, because this is a developing market, right? And we’ve seen, certainly in offshore. The perils of signing up to large agreements, with indexing that doesn’t match inflation, doesn’t match the changing nature of the market. We want to have that flexibility to be able to to offer different pricing as it comes up at the end of those 10 years, but also we have, we’ve introduced a a series of sort of FSA light, and other options where. You can, a customer can pick and choose what level that they would like. So they don’t necessarily, it’s not FSA or, or BUST. It’s, you might want to just have a contract where, you know you want us to do the the annual maintenance and be there for the, be the experts for unscheduled maintenance. But you might want to take the major component risk. You might want to decrease the price and take on a bit more major component risk. So we’ve got those options in the market and available to customers. So that’s a really big point. And the other one is also we don’t know what our customers want yet. A lot of them, whether they want to self perform in the future. We’ve seen that sort of bigger players like AGL have decided to bring all of their wind farm operations and maintenance in house. What’s to say that somebody else doesn’t want to do that. And ultimately if they want to do that, they want to have the flexibility in their contract to support. So that’s another reason that we want to remain flexible.  Joel Saxum: We’re hearing that globally right now, to be honest with you, the, that people are pushing back on long term FSAs and it’s simply exactly what you say. They want that flexibility. The way the market conditions can change, the way the, whether it’s the power market we’re talking about, or just the supply chain market all of those things are adjustable as time goes on as economies change, all these things. So I think it’s kudos to you guys in, in, in your operation. Now a question for you there is, that’s happening in Australia, of course, that’s your market, that’s where you’re focused. Is GE doing that more around the entire world, or is that more just in Australia thing? No, my understanding is  Nicholas McVey: it’s pretty global. It’s a pretty global approach. I can’t necessarily speak for every for the Europe and the US. We, no, our commercial director said it said it. Gillan said it well recently where he said, look, We’re really interested. What, while we have this workhorse product, we want them, and that’s based on quality and performance. We also want to be flexible to our customer. We want our customer to tell us what they want. We don’t want to just say we don’t want to be, I guess we don’t want to be a workhorse commercially, I guess is a way to put it. So we want to be a workhorse in our product, but not necessarily in a commercial sense, because ultimately the customers is the one that knows. Joel Saxum: Business 101. I love that you guys are getting back to that.  Allen Hall: And the Cypress as a workhorse this Mark II version of the Cypress, which you’re going to be installing pretty soon in Australia. A lot of work has been done on that turbine before deploying that. You want to describe all the effort that has gone into ensure you have a quality product when it gets to Australia. Nicholas McVey: Yeah, absolutely. So the, and this may not be the official name for it. It’s just my name for it, but but that’s what I’m calling it. It’s the first time it’s ever going to be installed in the field for a customer is in Australia for Squadron at Ungopa. And that’s coming in, I believe it’s 2027 is when we will see that. This product has been something that, is part of that quality journey that GE’s been on, part of the workhorse strategy is, we want to make sure that this thing is, is a quality product, is working, is performing, and it hits the ground running. And so there’s been a test side In Europe for about 12 months before we, we actually started manufacturing this turbine. And we, it’s had, it had a full run of 12 months and at a 98 percent availability. It’s tested in the field. Sure. We talked about Australia and its harsh conditions. It, it’s, it hasn’t been to Australia yet, but it ultimately that. They’re minor, when you look at a product like this, it’s been in the, in operation for 12 months and it’s had that kind of performance. We’re not sending it into the desert. It’s still going into a normal, windy area that is perfect for its, that has a nice little wind speed that’s nice and perfect for its its use and and we’re really confident that’s going to do really well here. Allen Hall: Australia is so solar dominated at the minute that there’s some batteries coming online. It’s a fluctuating market. It is so unique in the renewable world. And Australia is, in my opinion, the leader in renewable energy, clearly because of how much it’s being delivered at the moment. When does that missing piece How do you see that wind fitting into that solar landscape as it exists right now? Nicholas McVey: What we’re finding in Australia is that there’s some very clear areas where state governments are building wind farms, right? So they’ve carved out these particular areas. And the reason that they’re doing that, I can’t speak for the reasons that they’re doing it, but. But from my perspective it’s to ensure that they can firm that wind power into the grid and make sure that it’s a consistent entry into the grid. We’ve got the, we’ve got, we’ve brought a call reses. And and squadron is the ones that we’re building for squadron are in the the New South Wales res, which is has a significant amount of wind farms planned for that one area and also has, significant transmission line upgrades associated with that area so that it can confidently pump that that energy into the grid without curtailment. So I guess the point there is that yes, it will, there will be an offset with solar and the idea is to is to utilize both of them so that, we can provide a consistent, a consistent energy source. So that’s where it’s going and there are, yeah, for one I’m not an expert, I’m sure maybe Rosie would have a lot better idea about this, but what is that there are some very significant transmission pathways, around New South Wales, the top of Victoria, down in South Australia where these res areas are pumping into that. Allen Hall: So is Vernova being an international company in electricity, generally speaking they’re involved in interconnects and all the grid infrastructure, and it’s a great business right now. If you look at GE Vernova, the infrastructure, electrical supply is Fantastic. Is that a business that Vernova is going to pursue in Australia because of this interconnect issue and did the distribution of power from windy areas to the cities? Nicholas McVey: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. We’ve got a, we’ve got a really strong grid team here already. We, we’ve seen certainly from the time that I’ve been at G Vernova, I’ve seen a significant increase in the, I’d say the relationship that our grid team is having with AEMBO and having with, with the NSPs. And and we’re starting to really see a breakdown of a lot of red tape, which is really encouraging. Of course, we always say that they need, the less red tape, the better but I think what we’re finding is that it’s all about that relationship and, regulators and MSPs understanding our product, understanding, the the underlying factors that are in, Involved in generation. So we’ve really got to be on the front foot with that and really transparent as much as we can be to give them the confidence they need to allow our customers to generate. That’s really where the grid team is.  Allen Hall: That’s why you choose GE Vernova, is because they can create the power generation piece, be it wind or in the US, sometimes natural gas, and they’re big in both those areas. Plus the distribution equipment. You want them to work together. And GE Brnova brings that as a package in a lot of part of the world, which makes complete sense. It just simplifies the process in getting the grid infrastructure and the power distribution already set up as one item. Now, Australia is poised for big growth as we had discussed. And wind, what does that look like over the next year or so? You mentioned what it looked like over the next couple of years. What does your next year look like? How busy are you going to be?  Nicholas McVey: They’re going to be extremely busy for the foreseeable future. So we’ve got which is fantastic and it’s not just us it’s our competitors in this market as well. It’s really, it’s a really strong market. And there’s some really great customer relationships happening and there’s some. And, our supply chains are are looking really strong. I guess it’s the, over the next year, there’s from an, I guess I could talk from a project perspective, we’ve got we’ve got Goita, which is the key one that we’re working on at the moment, but it’s, we’re about, it’s about halfway through. It’s 75 Cypress turbines they’re 6. 0158 turbines. And aiming to, to have that sort of finalized and in production next year. So that’s probably the key one for next year from an O& M perspective. We’re really just, continuing to make sure that we’re set up correctly and for the future, we’ve for me it’s really about making sure that I’ve got a really robust safety processes, really robust production. And productivity and making sure everyone’s happy. And that we’ve got the right people that, that are doing a really good job and that it’s an industry where, availability is always what we’re striving for, but there’s only so much you can plan for but we really want to work with our customers. To give them that the forward data that they need to be able to understand their generation and work with us. I guess the key thing that we’re doing at the moment is we’re putting together, 12 month look ahead availability forecasts presenting those to our customers. And then saying, look, how does this work with your generation budgets, do we need to ship something, can we move things around to make sure that you’re increasing your generation while we can, while allowing us to do our work for you. So having that conversation and that relationship with the customer, really make sure that even if we do have something, some major part of work to do that might take the fun down for a little bit that, that’s understood and that we’re ensuring that we’re not, that the generation losses are minimized. That’s our focus, a really strong, happy team and a really strong relationship with our customer is really what I’m focused on for the next year.  Allen Hall: So if you’re interested in connecting with Nicholas and buying some of these new Cypress turbines. Or, working with Nicholas as part of the O& M team, how do they connect with you? How do they reach you?  Nicholas McVey: They can always email me or Vic Dean, probably a couple of good ones. I’m happy to share my details on with you guys and we can share that. I’m also planning to be at the the O& M conference next year in Australia, which is, um, please come along to that and bam me up. And but look, really happy, I guess on your point about people, it’s really important to reiterate that point that you don’t have to be from wind to, to get into wind, we’re really interested in. Making sure that if you’ve got a wind farm, I know it might be hard to figure out whether it’s a GE wind farm or not, but if there’s a wind farm nearby and and you’re mechanically trained, electrically trained and you’re interested please feel free to reach out to us and we’d be more than happy to talk to you. Allen Hall: Yeah. If you want to get into wind, now is the time in Australia. You don’t want to miss out. You want to get hooked up with GE Vernova as quickly as you can. Nicholas, thank you for Thank you so much for being on the podcast. It’s been great speaking with you. We will see you in February for the O& M conference, and we’re going to have a great time. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. No  Nicholas McVey: worries. Thanks, guys.

This week on Uptime Power-Up, Equinor’s system to keep their offshore floating wind platforms stable, Vestas’s patent for customizing blade root angles, and fresh air breathing device for emergencies. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comJoin us at The Wind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Allen Hall: Welcome to Power Up, the Uptime Podcast focused on the new hot off the press technology that can change the world. Follow along with me, Allen Hall, and IntelStor’s Phil Totaro, as we discuss the weird, the wild, and the game changing ideas that will charge your energy future. Well guys, our first idea of the week is from Equinor, and they have developed a system and patented a system about trying to keep their offshore floating wind platforms stable in rough seas. And that technique involves using the turbine blades to actually control the blade angle and the generator torque to counteract the motions of the seas to provide stability. There’s a lot of rotating mass on a wind turbine, obviously, so the moment of inertia is there and it’s kind of self stabilizing to a point. But the seas are massive, and they’re still gonna cause the, the floating platforms to bounce a little bit. This is an interesting patent. I always wonder about these systems, what the effectives on the mechanical system, on the rotating equipment. Does it start to wear on bearings? Does it cause problems further downstream when you try to actively control a turbine from swaying? Phil, this one is interesting in terms of its approach. It’s a relatively new patent though, right? Philip Totaro: Yeah. So this, this was just issued a couple of weeks ago and that’s why we, we tagged it because we’re tracking, new. Patent publications and application publications on a weekly basis. We’ve cataloged something like 60, 000 plus at Intel Store at this point. But this one stood out because, first of all, it’s patents from owner operators and independent power producers are, are usually rare and it’s the bigger companies that tend to get them if they get them at all. So the fact that Equinor actually made it a point to, to patent something in general is, is noteworthy. The other thing I take from this is that they originally filed this. In 2019 in the UK and that was the jurisdiction that they claimed the, the patent priority filing in. The Highwind Scotland site was originally commissioned and started producing power back in 2017. So, the fact that they came up with this concept. And wanted to basically, I mean Joel will be able to explain this in, in a bit more detail, but it’s almost like they wanted to use the turbine as a giant gyro stabilizer on this floating platform. Joel Saxum: So some quick math here on what this looks like in the real world. In the North Sea, the average wave period is about seven to nine seconds. So period of a wave is between crest to crest. So if we’re talking about trying to counteract what a platform might do between a wave, you’re talking seven to nine seconds from crest to crest. Okay. And now you look at the these larger turbines and you’re looking at about the same RPM. Six to nine RPM, something like that. Six to 10 RPM. So you’re talking, and what I’m trying to get to is, is if you’re going to use a part of the turbine as an act, an active part of the turbine to counteract some of this movement, that’s a lot of cycles on whatever that motor may be. So if it’s a pitch motor or. So, or a yaw motor moving and a pitch motor moving, you’re going to be doing this for every, basically every revolution of that turbine. You’re going to have to be moving stuff around. And if history shows us anything from some of the active pitch management turbines that we know of out in the field onshore, those motors don’t fare too well in the long run. So my thought here is while this is a great concept on a, and I don’t know if it’s been deployed and I don’t know if it has to what degree of success. That’s a lot of moving and grooving for a lot of parts up tower when they could be looking at a different way to stabilize this thing. Allen Hall: Our next idea is from Vestas, and this idea is a way to create the root end of a blade that’s angled slightly, so when it connects to the hub, The, the blade has either a sweep angle back or it’s coned angle forward, so it’s a series of spacers that you can put into the tooling to create this little bit of angularity to the, the blade. The, I guess the concept, Phil, is that you could customize the root angles to give you sweep or coning. For each turbine, for a specific location in the world and a wind farm to improve power output and maybe even durability, but it does sound rather complex on the application of this technology. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and it’s, it’s interesting because the, the, this is one of these concepts that we talk about on Power Up Here. From time to time, that, that’s a bit of an engineer’s fantasy, I’ll, I’ll call it where good idea and technologically feasible, not really a commercially viable solution to potentially a technical problem and a challenge that exists reason being that, like you’re saying, if you start developing site specific designs, while that’s good for, energy extraction and, and can have a beneficial impact on AEP, it makes your operations and maintenance overly complex, particularly around sourcing and storage of spare parts. But this could be a step in, in a better direction if they could also find a way to make the root end more efficient. Potentially a little more modular where it, it could be kind of swappable. Maybe, it involves some of these shims and, and other kind of approaches that, that have been proposed. Joel Saxum: Let’s take O& M out of this and start a little bit earlier in the project phase to see if this thing is feasible. And right now I’m looking at financially feasible from a risk standpoint and from an insurance standpoint. Because right now as it sits in the marketplace, and I’m just talking in the US cause that’s what I’ve been dealing with the last few weeks, is, People looking for a blade. Hey, can you find this blade? Do you, do you know where these blades are? Can I get a set of blades here? Can I get one of these? Can I get one of those? Because I’ve got long lead times. I’ve got business interruption costs that are skyrocketing. I’ve got all kinds of things going on that are non, not conducive to uptime for turbines. And this is based on what we sit today as basic blades, right? A blade. You name it, blades should work from turbine to turbine. Of course, we know that they have to be matched for weights and bending root moments and all these different things, but it’s hard enough to get those simple blades that are supposed to be manufactured in bulk to go onto these turbines, to keep them running. I don’t think from a, if you talk to banks right now or, or larger financial institutions or the insurance side of things for risk wise, they’re not going to want to take that risk on. And they’re not going to finance a project that has something like this built into it. That’s my take. Allen Hall: Our fun patent of the week is a fresh air breathing device for emergency building evacuations. And it’s from a single inventor, and in response to some tragic hotel fires, the inventor developed this breathing apparatus that’s pretty simple and potentially life saving. It uses a flexible tube that can be inserted through the toilet water trap at the bottom. And excess, quote unquote, fresh air from the building’s plumbing vent system. It includes optional charcoal filters, and I would option for that. Because you’re just coming into raw sewage, essentially, on the other side. But there is breathable air there, and it can include, like, a mouthpiece, a snorkel mouthpiece, or even a full face mask. Now, I’ve only seen this invention in the movies, in the Kingsman movie, they have this scene play out. where they have to take a pipe and basically snorkel it through the toilet to breathe to get through the exercise that they’re doing. The only other thing that worries me about this, Phil, is I don’t know if I want to be stuck to this toilet. I’d rather be getting the heck out of the building instead of trying to breathe sewer air. Philip Totaro: This is also, like we just talked about with the Vestas patent, it’s one of those things where, you know, it’s a very specific thing, like, you’re in a building that’s on fire, and maybe you can’t get out, but somebody can get the ladder, all the way up to where you’re at, and so you need to just buy yourself some time, so your toilet snorkel is is available for you in, in that scenario. But yeah, I mean, most people, they’re not gonna bust out their toilet snorkel unless they just can’t get out of a burning building in the first place, so I, I don’t know, scenario I would need to, utilize this in, but because I’m probably, if the building I’m in is on fire, I’m, I’m evacuating. Joel Saxum: I think there’s a couple things you’re, you have to, and I’m gonna go back to, focusing on operations. You gotta make sure you get that hose, first off, all the way up and through the toilet water, so you’re not sucking toilet water. And also, I don’t think you want that hose on the other end to be touching the inside of the pipe in any which way, because then you might be sucking in something that is not nearly as friendly as water. And on the other side of things, I’m not a lawyer, right, and I will say that, I can say that pretty confidently, I am not a lawyer, but When they write in this patent that it is fresh air, I gotta say they should have used a different word for that because that doesn’t hold a lot of weight for me legally. Allen Hall: I’m not a lawyer or a plumber but I know that’s the truth.

This week Allen, Joel, and Phil discuss Bonfiglioli’s advanced servo motors featured in PES Wind magazine, China’s offshore wind dominance, and the economic challenges facing U.S. offshore projects. The Wind Farm of the Week is the 170MW English Farms facility in Iowa, the recipient of the Envision Platinum Award. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comJoin us at The Wind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Allen Hall: We’ve all had our rental car problems over the last couple of years, ever since COVID. It’s been as Joel put it, a crap show in rental car land. Over in Syracuse, which is not very far from me, I was just over there a few weeks ago now the employees at the Syracuse Airport Hertz location left their counter unattended, and they left about six hours early. There’s a number of people that had landed in Syracuse and needed a car and there was no one at the counter. So what they decided to do is and about 20 of them decided to do this, they just took the keys that were available at the counter and then went on their way. And one of them was Denver Mayor Mike Johnston, was one of them that needed to be somewhere and didn’t have ability to get a car and just grabbed some keys and left. Now, this created a lot of problems, right? Because all of a sudden these cars have disappeared. They don’t know who have them, and they were starting to look for them. And now they’re concerned that people that did this are concerned what’s Hertz going to do to us? But I think they felt like at the time, Joel, that What else am I gonna do? If your employee’s left, I need to get a car, I gotta go. Joel Saxum: Yeah, that’s a Hertz problem. That’s the way I look at it. Technically, it’s probably theft, right? Like grand larceny or something like that. I don’t know if it’s larceny. Grand theft auto? Video games? GTA? Yeah but, it’s illegal when you look at it, right? But I can understand being that I’ve been in that situation where you show up at 11 p. m., you’ve been traveling all day, and you’re like, Worst. Where’s my damn car? Like, where’s the dang car that I want to go? And I don’t know if there’s one person in that group who was the first mover, right? There was a pioneer before the settlers. One person was like, screw it guys. Let’s go. I’m grabbing these keys. I don’t know who that is, but this, that’s I don’t know. There’s some cojones there. Allen Hall: My recent experience with Hertz in Oklahoma was getting to the counter at about 1230 in the morning. And there not being a single car there. And then I was the second one into the little office they have. And then another person came and another person came and then pretty soon there’s about 10 of us standing there and the Hertz employee who was attending the place and was trying to do the best that she possibly could said, I have two cars. I’m picking you and you. Just pointed at people. Wow. Yeah, I got one. I never get that. Philip Totaro: Allen, that’s like a Seinfeld episode right there. You guys know how to take a reservation, but you don’t know how to hold a reservation. Allen Hall: I felt horrible because I was meeting Joel the next morning. I really needed this car. We were going far off into Oklahoma, but there were all kinds of military people there that had things to do, too. Everybody had something to do. So they’re, Uber was their best friend at the moment, but man, The rental car situation is horrible. Philip Totaro: Let me give you a hot tip. Because I’m gonna be doing this myself later this week when I fly into Houston and arrive at about 1245 AM. I have a service called Zipcar. Which you can just automatically, use your phone and unlock the car and you don’t even need the keys. So I don’t have to worry about doing something Hertz style. I can just rock up to the car, get in and go. That’s pretty cool. Now, there are other services available, so that we don’t, just promote Zipcar, but I’ll tell you what, they have been pretty convenient. I’ve been using that, actually, for a couple of years, and it’s, they also don’t charge you a deposit, and they cover your gas, so I’ll tell you what, folks. Zipcar might be the answer in the future. It’s either that or electric scooters, Phil. That’s the Allen Hall: future. The new PES Wind is out, and if you haven’t received it in the post, you can go to PESWind. com and read it online. Bunch of great articles. This magazine is really heavy. There’s a ton of articles in it. A lot of offshore discussions and technology in this particular area. issue and I’m an electrical person. I’m reading the one from Bonfiglioli on the new servo motors that are made for offshore wind turbines. And when you say servo motors, I always think little tiny motors that are used in like radio control airplanes and drones and that sort of thing. But these are massive. These servo motors are used on up to 18 megawatt machines for yaw and pitch motors. But there’s a lot of technology in them, a lot more than I thought guys when they’re talking about yaw some of the accuracy they have to have and moving these big, massive nacelles accurately is really critical. Joel Saxum: I think the crazy thing here is that there’s so many components that you don’t think about within a wind turbine. Like when you talk about what Bonfiglioli is bringing to the table here you’re talking about components that we’re just always Oh yeah, yaw motor, pitch motor. But when you dig into the technology of them and what really goes into them, it makes the turbine itself so much more complex, but they’re doing it in a great way. So to be a supplier to an OEM like this, I think the OEM is, we have to realize they, they do. rely on a lot of sub suppliers all around the world to get things done. And so they turn to the experts, right? Like you want to turn to an expert for lightning protection. You call Allen Hall and myself. You want to turn to an expert for asynchronous motors and yawn pitch drives and other things. You turn to Bonfiglioli. And it’s Philip Totaro: important too, that. With how big offshore turbines are getting, that the reason that yaw and pitch is needs to be so precise now is you’ve got the potential to have a huge rotor imbalance if you’re off by even half a degree. With, blades that are gonna weigh, close to 35 tons each and, a nacelle that probably weighs like 250 tons, if not more at this point for these large offshore machines rotor imbalance is one thing. Wake effect is also another thing where you have to have a certain level of precision in the yaw motor to be able to ensure that you’re directing the downflow from the turbine and the outwash from the turbine in the correct direction so that it’s not impacting, another turbine that’s, immediately behind it or adjacent. Allen Hall: In the addition of a couple of sensors that they’re putting onto these motors and the electrical systems. To detect failures early is remarkable, because I think in the offshore case, you need to know, because there’s not people going up and down those turbines every day, like onshore and getting that early detection is a huge advantage. The other thing I noticed about this, Joel, is the emphasis on weight, on reducing the weight of these servos, and my guess is offshore, if you have to replace one, The weight matters. Joel Saxum: Yeah, big time. Because just think about this. When you bring the part to the turbine, you bring the part to the turbine. That transition piece has usually a Davit crane, or we call a Davit crane on a vessel, but a Davit crane type on the, on, on the actual transition piece to get parts on, so you can’t have a thing that is, too heavy. 10 tons going up over there. Cause you’re never going to be able to get it up inside the turbine unless you do some have, have to get some crazy, offshore, like lift work style, lift platform, or bring in a specialized vessel. You don’t want to do that. So you need to be able to have everything basically maneuverable or handle handleable. I don’t know if that’s a good word, but by the technicians on the deck. And if they can’t do it, then you have to bring in specialized equipment and everything offshore gets more complicated. So when you talk about the, boron and neodymium magnets, and some of those rare earth metals are heavy. Allen Hall: Yeah. So they’re beginning to use more aluminum and lighter weight metals. Plus all the environmental concerns of being offshore. Where you need to add a number of features to prevent corrosion and degradation over time, which is why they’re providing some of the sensors to detect that early. It’s much more complicated than you think. We get used to being around two megawatt machines. We see those everywhere. Yaw and the pitch motors are pretty much ubiquitous, right? And they’re swapping them out on a regular basis. You really can’t do that offshore. That’s where Bonfiglioli comes in and makes a really cool product. So if you haven’t seen this article, you need to go to PESWIN. com. And read it online or reach out and get a official paper copy. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime Podcast recommends PES Wind magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind. PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PESwind. com today. China is reinforced its position as the world leader in offshore wind power. Recent data shows they’ve connected about 39 gigawatts to the national grid as of the third quarter of this year. Let’s put those numbers in perspective. China’s offshore wind capacity has grown from less than five gigawatts in 2018 to Now 39, which is a huge jump in about a little over five years. And now they now account for roughly 50 percent of the global offshore wind capacity. And as they have developed that marketplace I think they’re getting a little landlocked at the minute is what it seems like. They had a meeting a couple of days ago now. where 30 Chinese companies signed a collaboration agreement. And we had seen this just recently about pricing on onshore turbines, where they decided to set the minimum prices so they would compete with each other below that level. And they’re trying to get collaboration in terms of technology. And China’s Three Gorges Corporation is spearheading this effort into some research areas. And it looks like they’re focused on deep sea power transmission, and also control systems. For the cables, maybe there’s some technology that they have to develop because of the depth of the waters, is what it sounds like. And they’re working with petrochemical companies to develop some advanced materials. And they, as China usually does, it works with the universities to Get some of the technology together, but they’ve also identified, Phil, 74, what they call little giants that are enterprises across the supply chain. And these are really specialized companies working on all areas of the offshore wind turbine supply chain. But it does seem like there’s a lot of players. So 74 companies supplying offshore wind components in China does seem like a lot. And they must be competing against one another. Does seem like China. government wise is trying to consolidate, maybe not have so many expenditures into offshore wind on its own, that the companies need to stabilize themselves and work together instead of getting constant funding from the government. That indicates some weakness, I think, in the offshore wind market, right? Philip Totaro: Potentially, yeah. So just to also be clear, China actually has a rather substantial amount of relatively shallow water near shore that they can still exploit throughout their their eastern coastline in particular. I, why they’d be looking at deep water stuff, it’s, it’s probably just R& D or else to try and, prepare themselves for foreign markets that they’re looking to go into, like the partnership they want to get in Italy to do floating. They want to look at markets like Australia or Brazil. Although again, Brazil’s got relatively shallow waters until you start going much further offshore, at which point you could exploit a lot of deep water floating. Um, there’s still Sites out there for them to exploit. There are, as you mentioned, Ellen, a number of companies that are participating in the market as far as the supply chain goes. And it the interesting thing about the Chinese subsidies is that they, as long as they’re gross domestic product, their GDP and their economy basically keeps growing, then they can afford to keep providing the subsidies that they do to all these different companies. Companies, whether they’re independent power producers supply chain companies in particular. That, that get money for the supply of components as well as the, discounts on, on raw materials. Joel Saxum: Phil, can I ask you a question on this one? Because this is what speaks to me. So I think we got a good view of what they’re trying to do here, but in the United States, wouldn’t a meeting like this be like covered under antitrust laws? If you look at, if you’re trying to look at like monopolization of an industry or control, government control of it, how does someone, like, how does the US or the, or the EU react to what looks like to us unfair business practices on the other side? Philip Totaro: Welcome to communism, Joel. It’s China. They’re doing what they’re doing. And as long as it’s within their own market, nobody’s really got a say in it except for, like a world trade organization. Thing, which even if we filed a complaint or anybody filed a complaint, it’s going to take seven to ten years to even investigate and then adjudicate it. Good luck with that. So the reality of it though is, so yes you’re correct in that this does seem, anti monopolistic. However they’re also You have to also realize like how China works as far as like these guys have meetings all the time. So pick any one independent power producer in China. Every other week, they have a meeting with an OEM that was, originated by and sanctioned by China. The Chinese government and whatever province in China that they’re in, the provincial governor is usually, or somebody from his or her, office is usually participating in that meeting and facilitating that meeting. So these guys have meetings like this all the time. Not with 30, all 30, whatever, and 74 companies and all this sort of thing. So that’s a bit, This is a bit of a special circumstance. It is, but it’s also, they’re realizing that they’re at maybe an inflection point with costs and, in their own domestic market, their desire to expand globally and how they’re going to have to work together to be able to go facilitate that again, mostly in, they obviously have expansion plans into Europe that they desire to pursue. But even the participation in certain auctions in places like Denmark, there, there was an energy minister who came out in Denmark this week and said, you know what, we have tools, quote unquote, tools at our disposal to, to preclude the Chinese from controlling any auctions that we that we undertake. Can desire to have a global presence all they want, but as long as they’re doing whatever they’re doing in their own backyard, we’re not gonna have a whole lot to say about it. Allen Hall: Does the American election just change the whole dynamic? So now the meetings are coming together because the, obviously the United States is not really an offshore market there, but a Trump administration putting pressure on Europe is going to essentially keep China out of European offshore, I would guess, would be a lot of reluctance to do that. Joel Saxum: Yeah. The big T word hanging out there, right? Tariffs. Allen Hall: Does that really, does that change the way that, that China is dealing with the market internally? Certainly, going back to your GDP point. If GDP is at risk, are they trying to do preventative measures to consolidate, be more efficient because the tariffs are coming and they know they’re coming? That industry is trying to grow really quickly and they can’t in the midst of tariffs. Philip Totaro: Yeah, keep it. So keep in mind, the tariffs would only apply in the following ways to China. So there are a handful of Chinese jacket and monopile fabricators that have some Western contracts in Germany, UK. I think even France, one of the one of the project developments in France, if I believe has some I think it’s Dalian if I, if memory serves but anyway, it doesn’t matter. And then the second thing, so foundations is one thing where tariffs would be applicable. The second thing is Chinese fabricated vessels that are then going to be. Reflagged, for a Norwegian or a Dutch or some other kind of, or Belgian, vessel owner and operator that would potentially impact the, but again we’re talking about a couple of different things here is one is those would be tariffs that would have to be enacted by the European Commission. Whether or not it happens at the urging of the Trump the, incoming Trump administration is a whole other conversation, but that’s the sort of thing that, you can enact those kinds of tariffs, but then, You’re forcing all the vessel owners and operators to go to Brazil or South Korea or, some other place to get vessels. And the whole reason they go buy from China is because it’s cheap. So this is always the conundrum we talk about is you can complain about China if you want, but you also have to stop buying their cheap goods, because it sounds hypocritical to me that you keep going back to China, buying their cheap goods, and then complaining about how you don’t like everything in China and how they’re taking over the world. Stop helping them take over the world, and then they won’t. Allen Hall: I think this goes back to Joel’s point from several weeks ago, which is, I think the amount of Chinese components in a wind turbine is north of 40%. Roughly, so putting pressure on Europe to reduce the amount of Chinese created components, or even components that are made in China by European or American companies, that’s going to really slow down that trade effort that China has an advantage of at the minute. That changes the dynamic, right Joel? Joel Saxum: The trouble here is, it’s back to Phil’s point too, is we’re trying to make wind energy affordable to get this energy transition going and if that, that higher percentage of components coming from China is in even a western OEM turbine. What are we doing here? You’re trying to keep them out, but you’re only basically trying to keep them out by, just because of the nameplate, because the rest of the components are, it’s like when we did like tariffs to bring manufacturing good tariff story, Japanese trucks, we wanted to keep trucks in the United States, so we put tariffs on them, so they ended up bringing, Toyota ended up bringing plants into the United States. Great. Toyota is actually the most heavily manufactured truck in America. It’s not Ford. It’s not GM. Yeah, Ford is mostly Mexico. Toyota is the most, is the highest percentage. Allen Hall: But wait. Let’s talk to that tariff story just for a minute. Didn’t Ford announce that they were going to build a factory in Mexico and stop as soon as they finished? Felt like Trump was gonna be able to impose some tariffs on them and said you can build a factory you want But you’re not gonna make vehicles down there. They’re not coming across the border to America, right? So Joel Saxum: because I just put 25 percent tariff on them and now it doesn’t make any sense, Allen Hall: right? So even American companies that want to get out of America can’t get out of America because of the threat of a tariff So it works both Philip Totaro: ways. But this is also why, this goes back to my argument about China, is that, look, there are ways in which we could leverage them. Specifically, why not trade, the import of a certain amount of goods in exchange for access to more raw materials from China, they control still more than 90 percent of the refining and manufacturing capability for permanent magnets that we use in wind turbines and electric vehicles. Let’s get access to more of that in exchange for giving them access to more Western markets. And at least that way we get something out of it and it helps us take advantage of reducing cost even though we’re doing the production here or in Europe, it at least allows us to, to take advantage of leveraging something from China rather than just tariffing the crap out of them until they end up doing a similar thing where they’re gonna, Chinese companies have also looked at They’re probably not going to be able to get their wind turbine factories set up in time because presumably once the Trump administration comes in, they would try and block that. But there’s already a lot of work that’s being done. Some companies that are looking to produce batteries, Chinese and other Asian companies looking to produce batteries and solar panels in the United States because they want to be able to avoid the tariffs. Joel Saxum: I think that, I think an a possibility here, cause I was talking with a friend of mine about this is if the big pain point, I think for Western countries. The US, Europe, any of the above that are, hair up on the back of the neck about anything China, is it needs to be whatever goods we get from them, bring them on as long as they’re not electronically connected. It’s the DJI drone story, right? DJI drones are not allowed to fly for the Department of Defense because that data can electronically be transmitted back to the Chinese government. If you want to quell people’s fears about things in China, because you don’t want to have, I understand this, not wanting to have a complete. Chinese turbine on our grid because then it’s an order issue of national security and energy security if they could shut it down remotely or something of that sort. So make it so it’s agricultural, right? Make it blades, make it steel, make it a bearing, make it something that’s heavy and metal that’s not electronically connected. And then that quells some of the, the fears, I think. Allen Hall: It could. I think the contrast to what’s happening in the United States at the minute is really eye opening, right? There’s been more recent analysis of the U. S. offshore market by Intel Store and many others, but it looks like the offshore in the United States the prices are going to be headed towards 230 per megawatt hour. That is really high. Joel Saxum: That’s a game, that’s a showstopper. Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s three to four times of an onshore wind facility. And that’s forcing the hand of BP and Equinor and GE and a number of players. So the, I think the estimate right now for the total amount of gigawatts installed offshore in the U S is about 15, 12 to 15, I think by 2030, I see it differing numbers bouncing around. And obviously with the Trump administration coming in, there’s a lot of concern by Trump. The state I’m in right now, Massachusetts, where Massachusetts is really concerned about all the money they poured into offshore wind. Same thing for Connecticut because of the ports and infrastructure in New York’s going through the same effort. So there’s really campaigns going on from the states to to say, Hey, we got all these jobs, we just created all this infrastructure, we’re ready to go for offshore wind, don’t cut it because you’re going to kill jobs. I, I, and I’m trying to get a sense from you guys is, do you think that’s a very effective argument for the incoming administration or are there better arguments to be had? Philip Totaro: I think it’s an interesting thing because normally if somebody’s trying to get elected a second time, you can play the jobs card and be like, look, we’re, we control a lot of votes and those votes aren’t going to go your direction if you don’t help us preserve these jobs. But now That you’ve got a second term for a president, he doesn’t have to care anymore, and as evidenced by a number of the cabinet picks that he’s making, he’s trying to ram through, loyalists that are gonna do what he wants done. At the end of the day and potentially to the benefit of, things like permitting because while they’re making permitting easier for oil and gas, they might also be making permitting easier for renewables, by the way. But it’s still, again, we’ve, how many times have we talked about the, interest rate environment in this market? And what I mentioned last week on the show about how, whenever you get into a period of high interest rates that are sustained and you start lowering interest rates, you’re almost always going to start inducing a recession because corporations are going to look at those interest rate reductions as an opportunity to get more margin and more leverage. That’s when they start laying off a lot more people and cycling through trying to hire in cheaper labor. And so that usually, that, that kind of economic scenario usually precipitates a dramatic lowering of interest rates down, back down to the levels that we saw, prior to COVID basically when we were, we were really grinding out a lot of Greenfield project developments, both onshore wind, solar, and we were starting to get, offshore, remember back to the good old days when they were bidding 70 bucks, not 230. So that’s the reality is projects aren’t going to get built to 230. As a PPA and with CapEx being as high as it is right now, because of you’re still facing certain raw material challenges and shortages in specific components for onshore and offshore wind. I think until and unless these interest rates drop and everybody starts pouring money back into renewable project development. That’s the offshore wind is going to kill itself without any extra help from the Trump administration. Allen Hall: Yeah, I wonder if that’s the approach, honestly, is that the administration will have to do very little. Joel Saxum: They’ll leave it to the states are already stepping on their own toes and tripping over their own shoelaces trying to get, trying to get these things accomplished. If I was the Trump administration, I’d just back off and let them continue to mess up. Allen Hall: One of the odd things that’s happened in Massachusetts and a couple other states is the amount of angst that’s going on in press conferences where the governor of Massachusetts is not very well seen, typically. You hardly hear from her, in my opinion, and she lives somewhere around me, is from my area. You didn’t always hear that much until recently, then all of a sudden we’re up in arms and we’re going to protest and fight and all the things that they want to do. That’s not going to help you right now. If just being quiet a little bit and letting it, let’s see what plays out for another 60 days. We’re 60 days away from anything really happening as we record. Do we panic right now? I’m not sure that we panic right now. I think offshore wind is going to happen based on economics, like Phil’s been saying for months. It’s either economics, is it going to work or it’s not going to work. And what happens going forward is, based on that. Joel Saxum: Yeah. In the wind world, if you look at all of the different intelligence agencies, we’ll call them, the Intel stores of the world, they’re all saying the same thing. They’re like, it’s not all doom and gloom. It’s not going to it’s not going to be like January 21st, all wind development gets shut down. Allen, you wrote an article yourself about it on the the educated opinions that you have and educate the knowledge that you have around the space. I think that again, calm down a little bit. When things get moving here, it will continue on. I think in a better economic environment, you’re going to see Development happen onshore as well. Here’s anecdotal information. I have a friend right now that just relocated and he’s looking for, he’s a civil engineer, construction engineer type cap, large capital projects. And he’s looking in the renewables industry for a project manager jobs. And he’s got a whole load of them. He’s Hey, do you know these companies? And he sent me a whole list. And these are all active job opportunities with Altig, and all these other big engineering companies that are part of these developments. So they’re gearing, I think that if you, we know the writing on the wall type thing, those companies are still having demand to try to get things done. They’re hiring project managers right now. So that’s what’s happening. Follow the money. Allen Hall: If you look at PES Win Magazine, it’s full of offshore. Full of it. The future will be there. The economics are coming, but the future is there. I’m with you, Joel. There’s still a lot more activity going on. Unlock your wind farm’s best performance at Wind Energy O& M Australia, February 11th to 12th, in sunny Melbourne. Join industry leaders as they share practical solutions for maintenance, OEM relations and asset management. Discover strategies to cut costs, Keep your assets running smoothly and drive long term success in today’s competitive market. Register today and explore sponsorships at www. windaustralia. com Joel Saxum: But the wind farm of the week is the English Farms wind farm owned by Alliant Energy. It’s east of Des Moines, about an hour or so in Iowa. It began operation in March of 2019, has a nameplate capacity of 170 megawatts on this wind farm, 69 turbines. So in 2019, when this these wind, this wind farm came on board, the Institute for Sustainable Infrastructure, ISI, gave this one and another of Alliant Wind Energy’s, or Alliant Energy’s wind farms, Upland Prairie respectively, are the recipients of the Envisioned Platinum Award for Sustainable Infrastructure. Of Audio To earn the Envision Platinum Award, a project must demonstrate it delivers a heightened range of environmental, social, and economic benefits to the host and affected communities. We talk about when I do Wind Farm of the Week, when we talk about it here on the podcast, we always talk about local tax benefits, landowner payments. Same thing here, 47 million in local tax benefits. Approximately 12 million dollars in local payments to landowners. This project here with 69 turbines owned by Alliant Energy in Eastern Central Iowa is the wind farm of the week. English Farms Wind Farm. Allen Hall: That’s going to do it for this week’s Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. Thanks for listening and please give us a five star rating on your podcast platform and subscribe to Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

This week on News Flash, we discuss CIP and AMPIN Energy Transition’s $300 million investment in Indian renewables, Enel investing €38 billion in grid and renewables through 2027, and the Long Beach Harbor’s $14 million match for their upcoming state grant. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comJoin us at The Wind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Welcome to Uptime News Flash. Industry news lightning fast. Your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, and Phil Totaro discuss the latest deals, mergers, and alliances that will shape the future of wind power. News Flash is brought to you by IntelStor. For market intelligence that generates revenue, visit www. intelstore. com. Allen Hall: Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and Ampen Energy Transition are investing 300 million in joint equity for Indian renewables. The partnership will enable approximately 2 gigawatts of renewable energy projects across India. Their combined portfolio will include solar, wind, hybrid and storage technologies. Now, this new deal creates massive 2. 7 to 3 billion dollars of renewable energy assets as a base in India. Now, Phil, India is a huge market at the minute, and a lot of renewable projects are moving towards India. This is another one by CIP. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and it’s, it’s fascinating because, as you mentioned, the, the market’s really seeing an uptick in wind and hybrid projects, and this is exactly where CIP wants to be able to park themselves with this partnership. So putting the capital behind a local developer and independent power producer that’s, had a track record of success is good for both parties but they’re capitalizing on it at a time when you know, India’s likely to add a, something like 80 gigawatts of renewables over the next, like, five years or six years alone. Which is a massive amount. And again, they’ve had, big pipe dreams and, and big pipelines in, in India for a long time. But they seem to be getting serious about it, especially when companies start, plowing more and more money into the market and starting to unlock a lot more repowering opportunities in India, where they’ve gotten their policies all kind of squared away at the state level to, to start doing a lot more project repowering and also their transmission infrastructure which they also recognize they’re going to have to heavily invest in to be able to, to get all these renewable projects on their grid. So, they’re, they’re really starting to push hard, in, in India they’ve, they’ve, like I said, have pretty big pretty big ambitions to be able to add a lot of gigawatts here in the coming years. Joel Saxum: I’d like to see CIP’s kind of strategy play out wherever you see an emerging market. They’re there. They’re in every offshore play. They’re in a lot of, like in, in, I’m not saying India is an emerging market. It’s a very dynamic market right now. A lot of players moving and grooving people in, people out, but there’s one thing they have a big renewable energy goals and there’s a lot of money coming in there. So CIP, you’re seeing them. They’ve been in, they’ve been in country in India since 2021. Not only with Ampen, but with Vivid, Vivid or Vivid as well. So they’ve been in that market for a little while. And as Allen and I know, working in India, the Indian market, it’s nice to have a local compadre there to kind of guide what you’re going to do to safeguard your assets too. So, good look on them and I can see CIP doing more and more of this. Allen Hall: In our second story, Italian utility giant Enel will invest 38 billion euros in grids and renewables through 2027. The company is allocating 75 percent of investments to European business operations. And they’re committing about 26 billion euros to great investments, primarily in Italy and Spain. Now, Phil, you don’t think of Enel as being that financially rich at the moment. It seems like a lot of energy companies and renewables have narrow margins, but Enel does seem to have The wherewithal to do some really big projects at the moment. Philip Totaro: Well, between the credibility that they have, plus their balance sheet, and their, their projecting, growth up to, around 24 and a half billion euros by 2027 in terms of their, their EBITDA and net income of about seven and a half. So what’s kind of fascinating about this is they, they do a lot of turnover already from their conventional utilities business, and they’ve been heavily invested in solar up to this point which has made them a, a decent return. Keep in mind that Enel, also encompasses Endesa over in Spain and they have, asset holdings, and I want to say 39 or 40 different countries around the world. And a, and a good sized portfolio of renewables, but it’s, it’s good to see them that they, they want to keep pushing, particularly with the, the grid infrastructure, because as we’ve talked about, I don’t know how many times, that’s really what’s going to unlock a lot of renewables investments. Joel Saxum: What I like to see here in the press release that NL put out is seizing on brownfield opportunities. What we know about a lot of the European fleet of wind specifically is that it’s aging, right? They’re coming to end of life soon. So there’s going to be an opportunity for repowers, an opportunity for lifetime extensions and a lot of these assets probably coming up on the open market for sale, because there’s a, there’s a complete market there of buy an aging asset, refurbish it, get it up to run. And then. Run it for years or sell it again. So you can see and I’ll make some moves there as well. Allen Hall: Over in the United States, the Long Beach Harbor Commission will match 14 million dollars for an upcoming state grant. The project includes a massive 400 acre wind turbine terminal at the port of Long Beach and when it’s complete, it’ll be the largest offshore wind facility of its kind in the United States. Phil, in the outcome of the presidential elections you would think that California would slow down on offshore wind, but they’re going full steam ahead. Well, Philip Totaro: and keep in mind that this Pure Wind Project also was able to secure around 475 million through one of our state ballot initiatives out here, Prop 4 which is gonna raise a few taxes and, and things like that. What else is new in California? But at least give them some money to be able to put towards constructing this 4. 7 billion and that’s still a pretty steep price tag, but 4. 7 billion offshore wind terminal out here. And certainly the, the, if they do it and they can pull this off it’ll, it’ll be good for offshore wind in California, certainly, and, and elsewhere on the West Coast but there’s a long way to go because if, they’re only getting the money together to do about 10 percent of what they need, and they’re, it’s theoretically relying on the federal government for the rest of it. They may be out in the cold for the next four years waiting for some additional funding. Good, good on them to, to see the progress they’ve made up till up till this point and, and getting this extra money to do the design studies and the, the, the front end design work that they’re gonna have to do for the port and terminal is, is good. Amongst the Joel Saxum: three of us, we talked earlier today about the speed at which the Chinese have grown in their offshore wind space. I think Allen, the number you said was 39 gigawatts deployed as of now. The, one of the reasons that they’re able to do that is they have existing port facilities. They have existing, an existing ship building community. They have all of the things that you need. To do stuff offshore quickly. Let alone, of course, their permit and permitting and regulatory environment is a lot different than ours, but you’re seeing that the groundwork is being laid here way ahead of time, right? So we’re, we’re talking, we’re, we’re not going to see a turbine in the water until 2030, 2032 in California. And if you’re learning anything from what happened on the East coast, as we’re. Developing farms. We have a couple already going right now and we’re still fighting for port facilities on the east coast. You can see, learn those lessons and see what the difference is between us and other, nations that are doing the same chase. But they’re gonna have to get on this thing now because even though it is six or eight years before we see steel in the water there, they’re gonna need to start working on facilities ASAP.

Allen Hall and Joel Saxum talk with Cory Mittleider from Malloy Wind about the complex world of wind turbine main bearings. Cory breaks down why traditional bearing coatings are failing in newer turbine models and explores how electrical discharge, material choices, and monitoring systems play crucial roles in solving these costly failures. Dive into the technical challenges of detecting problems in these massive, slow-moving components and learn what operators should do during warranty periods to prepare for long-term maintenance. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Joel Saxum: Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. Allen Hall: This is the progress powering tomorrow. I’m your host, Allen Hall, joined by my co host, Joel Saxum. Today, we’re tackling a critical issue that’s affecting wind farm operators across the industry, main bearing failures and the evolving solutions to combat them. Joining us is Cory Mittleider business unit manager at Malloy Wind, who brings over 15 years of hands on experience in power transmission and bearing technology. Cory has built his career at Malloy Electric where he’s become their go to expert for complex bearing challenges. His journey from technical sales support engineer to wind business unit manager has given him a unique perspective on the evolution of bearing technology and the real world challenges faced by wind farm operators. Malloy Wind, based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, has been at the forefront of developing solutions for wind turbine bearing issues, particularly focusing on advanced materials. and designs to combat common failure modes like peeling damage and premature wear. Cory, welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast Spotlight. Thanks for having me. You are our go to guy for Anything bearing related. And as Joel and I travel around the United States this summer, we ran into a lot of people with bearing issues and now main bearing issues. And we’ve seen quite a bit in the press this summer about main bearings and coatings on main bearings and what is the right kind of main bearing to use and a lot of operators looking at different solutions at the minute, and we figured. Cory will know. So let’s just ask Cory what his thoughts were on main bearings and try to get a sense of what can be done. Cory Mittleider: Yeah. We’ve definitely spent a lot of time looking into main bearings, main bearing failures. Joel Saxum: So let’s dive into this, Cory, then what is the. Just for our users or users, for our listeners can you give us the rundown basically of what the main bearing is, where it sits in the turbine and what it does? Cory Mittleider: On the wind turbine drivetrain, you’ve got the blades and the rotor hanging out front, and then ultimately that’s connected to a shaft. Which then connects it to the gearbox and the generator. And on that shaft, that’s what we’ll call the main shaft. On that shaft, there is a really big pillow block. And it’s got the main bearing inside. So we’ll call it the main bearing, the main shaft bearing, a couple of different nomenclatures there. But that’s what helps support that load of this very heavy drive train, but also connect it and allow the rotation to generate the power from the turbine. Some turbines do have two. main bearings on this main shaft. And most of them installed in the U. S. have one. That’s what we’d call a three point suspension. The two main bearing ones we call four point suspension. There are some other designs some direct drives and stuff like that, but very small install, install base in the U. S. So we’re really talking about this type of configuration where we’re talking about main bearings most of the time. Joel Saxum: Okay. So I’ll ask you another really basic and simple question for people like myself. There’s a lot of people in the wind industry that have never been uptower and have never seen these things, so they may not know exactly what size and what kind we’re looking at, but, you’ve been in the wind industry for a while, Cory, so you’ve seen some small ones, and now we’re growing in from that one megawatt, sometimes 500 you’re in. South Dakota. So you’ve got some Zahn Z50s and stuff out your door. Cory Mittleider: Yeah, we’ve got some 750s out here. Joel Saxum: So there’s, there are a lot smaller in the main bearing size, but now we’re getting all the way up to the point where we’re actually hearing of, like right now, GE is one, one 6. 1 megawatt, 158s are being installed in Wyoming. So we’re getting to that larger size. What is the size of these things look like? Cory Mittleider: Yeah, it’s been fun to see the trajectory on size. I remember one of the first main bearings I saw in person was a shaft size. That’s 12 inches. And coming from the industrial bearing space, where a good size bearing is 4, maybe 5 inches. That thing was huge, right? I’m like, wow, look at that big thing. Over the last 10, 11, 12 years now we’re talking that mid two megawatt range, we’re talking 700 800 millimeter shaft sizes that’s about 30 inches. Shaft diameter. It’s really tremendous to see the size grow from another point of information, that shaft size bearing weighs in at about 2, 500lbs. So 30 inch shaft size, 2, 500lbs, call it 50 inch on the OD about. So Joel Saxum: putting this Cory Mittleider: into Joel Saxum: scale, right? Like I, I drive a three quarter ton diesel truck. That truck on the hoof weighs like 7, 700 pounds, 7, 800 pounds. So just three of these bearings weighs as much as that three quarter ton truck sitting out there in the park, in my driveway. That’s insane, right? Just to put that into scale. The scale, but I will, in the wind industry, you get that conversation quite a bit. Like people don’t realize how big turbines are until you’ve stood underneath one. You can drive by on the highway. Drive up I 35 in Iowa and you look out and you’re like, wow, they’re cool looking. That’s big. But then you stand on the pad underneath one and you’re like, whoa, this is a different story. Because when we talk about this, that main bearing supports a lot of weight, right? So you have blades, you have that hub sitting out there. And these blades can be 20, 30, 40, 000 pounds. Each, right? So you’re talking, this bearing, the weight that’s hanging out over the front of it easily can surpass a hundred thousand, 150, 000 pounds that it’s supporting. So they become a massively critical element in the drivetrain. Like they’re very important to the whole mechanism. If these things start to fail, which we’ve, Alan and I have been hearing in the field, right? Oh, we’ve got main bearing problems. We’ve got main bearing problems. This is not a trivial piece of kit to change out. Cory Mittleider: No, and that’s a really good point. You look at the complexity of the system, the fact that to your point, this system, when you drive down the interstate a little ways away, it’s like, Oh, that’s big, but. Once you put your hands on this stuff, you really start to appreciate just how big it is. And so one of the the mid two megawatt main shaft bearings is a 750 millimeter shaft size. This is the size of a roller from that main bearing. There’s maybe 60 of these. Joel Saxum: So if you’re listening online, rather than watching the YouTube version of this, you can see Cory was, Cory, you can’t see, but Cory was holding up a roller bearing that is the size of, it’s a larger than even a Coke can of just, and this is just one of these elements. Cory Mittleider: Yeah. Yeah. And there’s quite a few inside. The other interesting thing is there’s a curvature to it, so it’s not just like a Coke can, but it’s actually bulged in the middle. And, there’s a lot of different bearing types. Used just in any industry. And the thing that makes this this main shaft bearing special is it’s, they used in the design primarily, but are called double row spherical roller bearings. And those have been around for a long time. They were invented in 1919. Very well defined from an envelope point of view. But the benefit of this bearing type is that curvature of the roller and the corresponding curvature of the raceway allows. for some deformation and it’ll accommodate what we call misalignment. So you imagine you’ve got this a hundred plus thousand pound drive train on the up in the air, it’s 80, 90, a hundred meters in the air on top of a stick in a cornfield, right? The environment is changing constantly. Temperature, wind, weather, all this stuff. The ability of that system to move a little bit is why you pick a double row spherical type bearing. So that allows. confidence that it will still carry the load effectively while still potentially being able to move. So that’s why the vast majority of mainshaft bearings are in fact, this double row spherical type as well. Allen Hall: So if you have different OEMs you’ll see different manufacturers for those same bearing types, right? That they’re not uniform. I haven’t seen. Two manufacturers of bearings produce really the same bearing. Everybody has their own particular flavor that they add to it. Cory Mittleider: Yeah, that’s true. Every bearing manufacturer, tries to and they do a good job of setting themselves apart from one another, defining what what they think is important. For applications for just the bearing generally. And although the envelope dimensions to your point are defined they’re ISO defined dimensions. Each manufacturer does their own things, right? Um, material differences steel alloy differences, cleanliness roller shapes, coatings as applied, right? There are some coatings that are proprietary and some coatings that are Industry known, right? Maybe there’s their own formulation, but they fall into a category that’s similar. Allen Hall: So when an OEM picks a main bearing, it has a general spec, from what I’ve seen. There’s a lot of mechanical features to it. One of them tends to be lifetime, that they want to try to get a certain amount of lifetime. Out of the bearing where it happens. So all the manufacturers of these bearings come forward with their particular solution. What do those solutions look like? How do they vary between the bearing Cory Mittleider: manufacturers? Any OEM, they want to have multiple suppliers, right? So they want to define an envelope and make sure that they can have a supply chain to, To build all the farms that need to be built without constraints in their supply chain. As far as what it looks like in the aftermarket, right? That’s cause that’s where I live is completely in the aftermarket. We get to look at things after they failed and investigate the fine tune differences between them. Allen Hall: What I’m trying to understand is if I buy a particular turbine and I pick a hundred of these things. The main bearings will not be from the same manufacturer on all 100 turbans. They are choosing two or three different manufacturers to provide those main bearings. And even though the mechanical spec and even the lifetime spec and even the coding spec may be the same, the bearing itself is different from turban to turban. Why is that? And what does it matter? Cory Mittleider: The biggest change, depending on how much is specified to your point some designs are build to print. I think we talked about that on the blade bearings actually, right? Where a turbine manufacturer will take the full responsibility for geometries and hardnesses and finish surface finishes and material, the whole ball of wax and others are more meet the spec, have this material meet this surface hardness and, meet this fatigue life type of thing. So depending on the Sarah, historically it’s been the latter, right? Here’s our lifetime goals. Here’s here’s our loading. Give us something that fits and achieves the lifetime. Yeah, to your point though Materials can be used differently from different manufacturers coatings on the raceways, on the rollers. And this is something we actually saw a while ago on gearbox bearings as well. Gearboxes had an evolution of materials and coatings. And we’re starting to see some of that with main bearings. And true in most industries is that the OEMs tend to learn from the aftermarket as well, right? Learn some of those options because ultimately they want to buy the lowest cost product that meets the needs, the design requirements. But it’s not until you get it out in the field to understand the things that outside of just the design requirements, but the real world effects of what’s going on. And some of those things are then fed back into the OEM cycle that yes, this change is worth a little bit of a cost premium when you buy the turbine. So that you can have long term operational confidence. Joel Saxum: We talked with R& D test systems not too long ago about this actually, basically testing bearings and how these large size bearings are one of the most difficult components to test because they are, the failure modes are so Like it takes so much force and so much effort to get to that failure mode that to make it happen in a lab setting is almost impossible. So they’re getting to the stage where they’re doing some like hybrid testing where it’s yes, it’s on a bench, but we’re also involving some AI and machine learning algorithms from other things to try to get to that accelerated life test. What the reality is, because earlier in the conversation here, we’re talking about A 2, 500 pound bearing and all this steel. That’s hard. If I have this one on my chair, right? So if I’m testing the one on my chair, I just put some weight in it and spin it around a bunch. And eventually I can get it to come apart. But with a, something like that, like it would take years of testing. So what ends up happening, like you say, is they have to wait for a little bit of runtime in the field and some feedback from SMEs like yourself to say, Hey, this is the things that we should fix for the next generation of turbines. The difficult thing here is, the OEMs are learning lessons all through, they’ve been learning it forever. So take a OEM XYZ, they’ve, they’re on, model 58 of turbines by now. Hopefully they have some things figured out and which they do, but the difficult is as we continue to scale and rotor size so quickly these bearing sizes and the designs and the loads on them are all changing very rapidly. I guess a question here for you guys is, you’re in the field you’re getting calls from operators. Hey, I’ve got this problem. Come and dissect it and tell me what I can do next. What are some of the fixes that you guys are working on for main bearings at Malloy? Cory Mittleider: In the past, let’s say 12 years, there’s been a couple iterations of different attempts to fix the problems in the field. And to your point the OEMs they do a good job, I think, of the sizing of the bearings. I wouldn’t suggest that the size is necessarily wrong because their core goal is to achieve a runtime. And that, that formula, that calculation to understand, here’s the applied loads, here’s how many revolutions it’s going to accrue here’s what the fatigue life looks like, raceway rolling contact fatigue life look like is pretty straightforward. The thing that we learned from the field and is even really hard to learn on a test bench, is what are the other things? What’s happening in the real world, right? Because even the test bench, you still need to set up your test. If you’re setting up your test for rolling contact fatigue, you’re probably going to fall right in line with the calculations. But you need to test these other things, environmental different loading than expected. Is there some feedback from the field that it’s different than what was thought to be? Are there other conditions? As we talk about main bearings. There’s some investigation going on right now around electrical discharge happening in main bearings. Yes. They’re not solved today, right? These problems are where we live in the aftermarket. It’s where the operators that, that are taking control and self operating their turbines have opportunity. To learn and adapt. And that’s where the OEMs are taking feedback from the aftermarket as well. Not in the real world installed, not just test benches. Allen Hall: So how do you know you have main bearing problems? What’s the first indication? I’d like to ask Cory Mittleider: people that when they tell me that they have failed the main brain. So it’s interesting. Main bearings are really slow, right? We’re talking RPM on some of these as the turbines get bigger. So your traditional vibration. Signature it’s not impossible to see with condition monitoring tools like Vibration, but it doesn’t jump out as much as high speed bearings in a gearbox or generator, for example. Another thing that we do hear reports of is temperature as another feedback loop. Unfortunately, temperature indication, if you’re generating a lot of heat, In a failing main burn, it’s probably pretty late stage. Allen Hall: I thought a lot of times the key was just technicians hearing some grinding noises, but you’re saying you can actually detect it way earlier. If you’re looking Cory Mittleider: for it, you might be able to. You’re right. I’ve heard a lot of stories of the technician said it was growling type of thing or banging. But that’s, they have to be up there for that, right? That’s that personal exposure that doesn’t happen every day, every week even. Unfortunately, we’ve also heard reports of the turbine went offline because of an alarm. And when the technicians do go up, the rollers have fallen out of the bearing. I’ve seen some of those pictures. So they aren’t, as well monitored or easy to detect early. And to Joel’s point, there is a huge load applied to them, right? The nice thing about the high speed bearings or gen bearings although they’re moving fast and it can be monitored with vibration tools. They have a lot smaller load. They don’t have that a hundred plus thousand, a hundred thousand plus pound rotor assembly, Joel Saxum: right? So if you’re to monitor a main bearing, would you look for. Rather than vibration or something because you know a lot of things they’re running at 6 to 10 RPMs or so 6 to 12 maybe on a smaller one. Would you look for deformation? Or would you look for vibration? Cory Mittleider: I think that’s what the operators are and service companies, the the condition monitoring service companies are improving. I understand that some of the CMS tools do have some, I don’t know what the right word is, machine learning type stuff some things that are helping them learn more with more data points, which is going to be really helpful for those operators. From my position as a bearing person, not. Living in the monitoring world there’s things that an operator can’t control. Looking at it to your point is it a platform where we know there’s an extreme failure rate? Make sure that when you’re up there for your biannual maintenance is. That you’re looking at it. Grease sampling is another idea, right? It does have its own challenges in providing consistent results. Grease sampling, bore scoping, both tools available. They do require that personal attention though. It’s not the remote monitoring. The remote monitoring is some have figured out the clues on their turbines that trigger. The in person visit. I think both go hand in hand as far as monitoring goes. Joel Saxum: Yeah. Cause from the vibe, from a vibration monitoring standpoint, like high speed, it’s a lot easier to pick up. You get that higher frequency and you can sense that, but the list will slower, lower thing. One of the solutions that comes to my mind, Alan, who I’ve talked with you about this one, is that sensing 360, they have the fiber optic sensing that will go right basically around the raceway. And if that raceway starts to deform or move at all, You’d be able to see it or pick up on it. Now you’re going to have some natural movement in it, right? But you’re looking for that difference or the anomalies. Yeah, exactly that delta between what the baseline was and then what may be happening because I think at the end of the day, That’s what we’re starting to hear in the market is everybody wants a, they want a CMS solution for everything. If they could be remote, if they could remotely have eyes and ears in that turbine, right? The less people they have to send up tower to climb, the better off the operations are more efficient operations are. Cory Mittleider: And they can focus on the stuff that they’re there to do. PMs and address the problems that are qualified. Joel Saxum: Yeah, fix the problems instead of just having to Allen Hall: go up and look for them. So I want to get to the coding issue, and the one that has been discussed the most recently is the diamond like carbon coding. I understand what that is, generally speaking, but exactly what is it and why would I want to use that coating on my main bearing? Cory Mittleider: Sure. Yeah. So we look back at the history of main bearing failures to 10, 12 years ago where DLC started to become popular. A lot of the main bearing failures had, excessive wear in the raceway, peeling damage specifically, I would call it. And that can be caused with poor lubrication environments, right? The wind industry. It took advice from other industries. They didn’t, this DLC technology was not necessarily invented for wind it’s technology that existed before and was used successfully in other industries for similar failure modes. So it’s a tool in the toolbox and it was launched in wind and it’s done a pretty good job on a lot of applications really, right? Now DLC. As far as what it is, it’s it’s a coating that’s applied to the roller. And this coating is actually extremely thin, right? It’s, we’re talking 2 3 microns, 2 3 thousandths of a millimeter. It’s really thin coating. You’re not gonna, you’re not gonna see the edge and feel it. It’s very thin coating. It’s applied after the roller is produced, right? And then it’s assembled into this mainbrain. And the idea is that it’s really hard and it’s a different material than the steel of the raceways. So the dissimilar material and the high hardness are, where it has merit in trying to prevent that peeling damage in a poor lubrication environment. That’s what it was used for in other industries. And that’s why it was used in wind. Joel Saxum: So if we’re going to equate this to something that the everyday person can understand, is it like a, Like in your pots and pans, like a Teflon coating. Is it cause Teflon’s what’s slippery though. That’s different. I guess it’s not the hardness. Is it more like anodizing in a sense as Cory Mittleider: conversion coating? I’m glad you asked that question. So we talk about coatings in gearbox bearings too. And you said exactly right, Alan. Anodizing is converting a base material. Black oxide, as we look at gearbox burns, is converting a base material. And that’s actually where DLC is different. No, it’s actually applied afterwards. So it’s put into this environment and in a, highly controlled environment in an oven and it’s deposited onto the roller surface. So it relies on a bond strength to attach it to that roller surface. So that’s where it is different when we talk about some other coatings in wind, for example, in black oxide. Although we use the same terminology, Allen Hall: there’s a functional difference there. And if you’re applying a material to an existing piece of steel, which is what you’re doing, in that case, the prep you perform on the steel and the cycle you put it through to apply that coating become. really critical, generally speaking. Is that where that coding starts to have issues is in the application processes, or is it more in terms of the operational side? We’re just applying too much load to it. Sure. So you’re absolutely Cory Mittleider: Prep process control. Because remember, this is the size of one roller. There’s all this surface area. It’s five inches long. It’s a three inches diameter. There’s a ton of surface area on just one roller. Okay. There’s 60 of these. And all of them have to have really good adhesion of that coding for it to stay in place. Now what you’re asking is a really good question, right? Is what’s the. Why isn’t it working anymore? I think is maybe is maybe part of the question, right? Because it did work really well. And I would continue to argue that it still does work in some applications. But we’ve learned in the last four or five years, I would say that some applications, it doesn’t offer the same solution that it has on other applications or other platforms. So I, As much as we have explored alternate tools I by no means want to give the impression that I believe that DLC is bad or completely inadequate. So just so we’re clear, but no we’re actually not seeing a ton of problem with I’ll say the DLC necessarily coming off. We don’t view the DLC on the rollers. To be the root cause of the failure. We see it to be how the failure manifests. So we’re seeing artifacts of other things and to be fair, since this is relatively young, there’s still some exploring going on on what that root cause is. There’s some operators, certainly the turbine manufacturers and bearing manufacturers that are investigating some of those root causes. Now, at the same time as we have to investigate the root cause Bearings still need to be replaced. And if the bearing that’s being taken out now had certain characteristics, whether it’s DLC coding this cage guidance method, whatever it is, those are the variables that we have to look at changing to try. and see what works, right? And that’s where we spend our time in the aftermarket. About five years ago now, there was one application that was failing main bearings pretty young. And then over some time, DLC was applied as a typical aftermarket solution. And what we’ve learned there is That’s one of the Turbine models that just putting DLC on didn’t offer the solution that it did on some of the previous platforms. So we’ve looked into, what else can we do? And one of the tools in our toolbox, in Win specifically, is different materials. Alloys, heat treatments, both. Those are two independent things, alloys and heat treatments, as well as process control, cleanliness, quality control and that’s where we’ve turned to develop new tools as we collaborate with our customers and our manufacturers. Allen Hall: Let me just dive into this for a minute. Cause I’ve, this is fascinating for an electrical engineer when we start talking about metals and how things pick all these loads. So we’ve got this really thin coating. It’s secondary applied. It is. As it’s been described to me, flaking off, and that gets into the grease, and then you have this basically diamond hard coating in the grease, which then just runs everywhere and starts to attack the bearing surface itself, and then it just cascades into bigger problems. But we don’t really understand what drives that failure at the moment. We’re still trying to understand look at what the variables are. I know the one that I hear the most is, Electrical currents or lightning currents passing through the bearings. Now, electrical currents would make a lot of sense to me because that coding is non conductive. Dam light coatings tend to be non conductive ish. And if you start pushing current through it or breaking that coding down electrically. I’ve seen it on airplane parts. It doesn’t go well for that coating, but there’s probably 50 other reasons why this coating could go bad. Cory Mittleider: Yeah. Yeah. You’re, and you’re exactly right. You’re you presented a couple of the pieces on some of the working theories that I’ve been a part of as well. Any bearing, no, no bearings like electricity. Let’s be honest, right? We learned this 15 years ago in the generator. We see in the gearbox in certain cases, we think that’s in the main bearing. We’re probably not terribly surprised to see that may play a factor. Now to your point one of the things that we have seen and I know is being explored is if the DLC is damaged not even saying that it were to be inadequate in the first place, but just say it got damaged. from some hard particle debris or environmental or whatever. Now maybe if there is electricity, it’s now even more concentrated in this spot. This is one of the conversations that we’ve been having. So does that lead to some of the domino effect? Where more of it is coming off. And is it where, is it flaking? There may be some nomenclature disagreement depending on who you’re talking about but you’re also, you also bring up a really good point. Regardless, if it is coming off from damage, electrical, any reason whatsoever, if it’s coming off, you now have what is, remember the point was it’s high hardness. Now you have this high hardness debris. in your grease and it can accelerate the wear when in fact it was supposed to reduce the wear rate. Allen Hall: That just really makes me wonder what the solution has been over the last couple of months. I’ve heard differing opinions about it. Some of the operators are installing essentially the same bearing back into those turbines or choosing the other manufacturer for those bearings in the same turbine. And occasionally you hear them talking about putting what I call bonding straps, electrical straps around to tie all the equipment in the cell together electrically to reduce the amount of impact it would have on the main bearings just as a bandage. I don’t know if there’s any, I have not seen any hard data on any of this, but it feels like there’s been a lot of ideas being thrown against the wall at the minute. But we’re still trying to understand what the core issue is. Is that where you feel we Cory Mittleider: are at? Yeah, I would agree. I’ve heard a lot of the same, and I’m going to tell you as a Bering guy, whatever you can do to stop electricity going through the Bering. Yeah, do that. Give it a desirable path. Don’t let it go through this undesirable path, right? Let’s eliminate variables like that. That’s a great idea. But yeah there’s been a lot of talk about that. There’s minor differences between bearing manufacturers, which you hit on earlier, that maybe this bearing manufacturer had a little bit lower failure rates. We have a better chance. Using that bearing manufacturer. And that’s what I alluded to earlier. Right now, we have a choice of, wait for people to test this, which could be a year, it could be three years or install a bearing in your turbine and run it. And that’s largely where we’re living right now is we know we have history on certain things. We’ve learned quite well on certain things. This is what we feel we can do from a bearing technology point of view, but continue, we’re encouraging the operators to continue to explore this because if they need to work on grounding if that’s lightning, if that’s static, is it a induced current from other electrical systems in the turbine? Keep exploring. Don’t think for a second that you’re going to put something in, walk away, and never come back. Joel Saxum: Keep exploring. Cory, a question about you on this exploration part, and basically, because WeatherGuard here, we’re in the same boat, right? We’re always trying to get as much data as we can to put together to, because answers are driven from data, right? We can have anecdotal thoughts about what’s happening, but as soon as we start to, Really build a track record of a certain L, like for us, it’s a certain LPS system versus a, geography and environment operates in these kinds of things. We can start to get some really good insights of what’s happening in the field. Are you guys, so at Malloy, do you guys keep like a database of, these are the ones that we see that are good. This is what’s the failure modes we see. Cory Mittleider: So on a per platform basis our team has a pretty good knowledge of this platform, fails from this method failure mode rather. Early failure life might be X years, average failure life might be this, we hear some scuttlebutt about if there’s acknowledged technical issues, publications from an OEM type of thing which Alan alluded to earlier, of course. So from an app a turbine model point of view. We have a pretty good idea. And I like what you said, Joel. One thing that we like to encourage operators to do as we talk to them and we’re launching new solutions is validation. Validation is the most important part of this evolution. And you put in a new bearing, generator, gearbox, blade, main, all of it. Or all the other problems that operators are trying to solve. Whatever you install for a fix, it’s always based around really good ideas. And we generally agree on the scientific idea on why we think it should work, but you got to go validate, right? And that’s not a light task. I get it, right? There’s a time commitment. There’s a labor commitment. There’s just plain a desk time commitment to trending that data, understanding that data. But that’s how. Those operators are going to be able to come out of that successful and there’s it is a hard task, admittedly and some are really dedicated to doing it and it shows that they do really well. Joel Saxum: Yeah, I think that the, it’s a heavy lift, but as an industry, No matter what you’re dealing with, whether it’s bearings, lightning, blade problems, gearbox issues, whatever it may be. If we’re not doing that as a collective team, then we’re not moving the industry forward. Cory Mittleider: And that’s where our role is. I feel at Malloy, is working with multiple operators. Across multiple platforms and accumulating this knowledge across 12 plus years now on these failure modes on the different applications. And one of the things I touched on it already is we’ve had a lot of success for 15 years on gearbox bearing failures. And. The way that those were solved were not actually with a coating applied to the rollers. It was actually applied a lot of the solutions that we have developed are based on material changes, right? So that’s alloys, that’s process cleanliness that, Does some manufacturers have higher standards than just what ISO sets out for manufacturing standards and heat treatments to boot, and a combination of all those things are important. So when we looked at this main bearing problem, for example five years ago, although coatings on the roller was widely accepted in the industry, we wanted to look at some other solutions. And how can we inject some of these other tools. Because even at the time, this first one we looked at five years ago. It looked a little different than the historical main bearing failures. So we said we should treat it differently, right? So we took this different material and different heat treatment that was very successful in, in, WEC problems and debris initiated issues in gearbox, high speeds, planetaries, intermediate bearings and said, what we’re seeing, this might be a really good fit for main bearings as well. Allen Hall: If I’m a operator with a warranty and I’m trying to figure this out and I know generally that I probably have this issue, what should I be doing right now in the warranty period? So when I come off warranty, I have some sort of track record. Cory Mittleider: Yeah, that’s a great question. Cause you don’t have too much control probably in that warranty period. Other people are in control. Now, as I understand it, you have access. to go get what you want. So I think getting informed both on your situation because unfortunately we have heard that a warranty ends and operators have no idea what the history was. Failure rate, the failure mode, whether it was replaced at all or once or twice. So Collection of information on your fleet is probably a really good piece. Reach out, give us a call, talk to us about what our experience has been. Being prepared to make that decision, I think is the other side of that coin, right? Not just waiting until warranty’s up. Now we gotta, now we gotta go explore the options. Adjusting, anybody would do that but reiterating the importance of being prepared. All right, we can talk about what’s available, what our experiences are and ultimately we’re always learning more from the next operator that’s talking to us as well. So I view our role as a bit aggregating in the operator’s experiences, the service provider’s experiences to inform how we’re, Launching new barracks to solve those problems. Allen Hall: Can Malloy help develop that plan? Just because you have all that deep knowledge of other operators. Is that something that you can assist an operator with? Is here’s the plan you should be taking. This is the ones that have had success. Cory Mittleider: Ultimately we would probably give some recommendations. Look for this. Look at your bore scopes. This is what it, this is what you can look for from what the picture would look like maybe some response. I can’t say we’ve developed comprehensive step by step plans by any means, but a good conversation on what to watch for I think is the first step in developing that plan. Allen Hall: I think a lot of operators are in that boat at the minute. They don’t know what to look for and they don’t have any plan to attack it. They’ve seen the cranes on site. They’ve seen some main bearings being replaced. under warranty, they don’t have all the details, and yet, in a year or so, they’re probably going to own all those assets, and how do they start tracking it now? If you’re out there, you better get a hold of Cory at Malloy Win, because that’s where the answers lie. Cory, this has been a fascinating discussion. I love Talking Bearings with you because you’re just so deep into it. I love that it’s almost like a mystery. It always has to be solved. It’s a complicated problem. It’s probably one of the most complicated problems in WIND at the moment. And if someone wants to reach out to you, how do they connect with you? Cory Mittleider: I’m active on LinkedIn. My, my phone numbers is on the website, but it’s 605 357 1076. Don’t hesitate to call and ask about any bearings. I like talking about bearings with everyone. We have our say general inbox, which is wind@malloyelectric.com. That’s a good entry point as well, because it’s not just me. And I got to emphasize that, we’ve got folks in the field that are out collecting some of this information as it happens. Basically learning more about it every single day, we’ve got an inside team of product champions that really know those applications down to the detail that I work with we all work together, obviously on a daily basis. So there’s several of us. That depending on your, the operator’s situation today, what they know, what they don’t know, that could help guide for, what is the next step? Is it main bearings? Is it what your bore scopes look like? Is it gearbox bearing? Can we start with a nameplate picture to understand what that application is exactly to support you in that way? Allen Hall: Everybody out there listening go to malloywind.com. And look at all the information they have there. They have terrific online resources about main bearings, gearbox bearings, pitch bearings, it’s all there. All the failure modes are shown on there. They have great color photos and a description of what has happened to them. Tremendous resource. Cory, thank you so much for being on the podcast and we’re going to have you back again because there’s so many Gearbox problems. I want to get to gearbox bearings next on my list. So we got to invite you back. Cory Mittleider: Yeah, absolutely I’d love to talk about gearbox bearings, there’s definitely a lot of activity around blade bearing and main bearing failure, but it doesn’t mean the gearbox bearings have gone away, right? There’s still some of the existing fleet out there that can be addressed and there’s always new stuff to learn there as well. So yeah, I’d love to. Thanks for having me.

This week on Uptime Power-Up we discuss Vestas’ offshore blade repair method, Siemens Gamesa’s way of optimizing power production for floating turbines, and a fun way for kid’s to collect their Halloween candy. ign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Allen Hall: Welcome to Power Up, the Uptime Podcast focused on the new hot off the press technology that can change the world. Follow along with me, Allen Hall, and IntelStor’s Phil Totaro, as we discuss the weird, the wild, and the game changing ideas that will charge your energy future. All right, our first idea is from our friends at Vestas, and it is a a relatively sophisticated system for handling wind turned blades during maintenance, particularly offshore. And if you think about how you try to manipulate a blade offshore to do repair work on it, it’s not, it’s not easy to do that on the deck of a ship. So the, the concept is you take a crane, get the blade off the turbine, you move it down to the deck of the ship and it sits in these cradles. And they move it from the support cradles to a third device, which allows the blade to rotate. And they could slide it into a shelter that’s built up on deck so you can actually repair the blade without getting wet or, or too hot or too cold, probably, probably too cold in most cases which is a really difficult task to do and Vestas, Phil, has, has come up with a really unique idea on how to manage this. Philip Totaro: Yeah, this, this one is very Interesting, because we have comparable systems to this onshore, but it’s obviously a lot harder to implement offshore. So, for instance, having the tent, it’s going to sound like the stupidest thing ever, just like having a tent around the blade to be able to, protect the, the area that you’re scarfing out or whatever, if you’re doing that kind of a repair. That’s, that’s important. That’s an important consideration. And while it’s obviously possible to do that today offshore the fact that you would have to use the crane to, place and pick or use the, um, the fixtures that are attached to the crane to rotate the blade and then lower it into the cradle. That can be complicated and time consuming and expensive to do with the on board crane on the vessel. So, the fact that you can lower it into this rotating, we’ll call it a rotating, cradle. Or fixture and the fact that, they’ve, they’ve got this capability to be able to put up the, the, tarp or tent to be able to protect the blade to, to do the repairs, it’s, it’s really helpful and, and gives you potentially improved quality in, in the repairs pretty much at the same level that you would get from doing it onshore. Joel Saxum: Yeah, I like the idea here that we’re basically taking a concept that we know if you’ve seen major blade repairs on the ground, a lot of times a temporary tent is put up so that you can work in the wind, rain, snow, cold, whatever it may be. Doing the same thing here offshore. Important for operations and maintenance for the future as we have to start doing some, larger and larger repairs to these blades. But a big important part of this is if anybody that’s been involved in lifting operations, you want to minimize the amount of times that you actually touch these blades. When you talk about installing them offshore, you build them in the factory, you move them from the factory to the yard, then you move them from the yard to maybe Keyside. If the factory’s close to the, to the water, then it goes from keyside, another crane puts it on the boat, and then the vessel might, might be a barge, and then the barge goes out to the working rig, and then they have to pick it up. And every time you pick a blade with a crane or slings or other kind of fixtures. You have a risk for damaging it. So being able to drop it on deck and move it and manipulate it however you need to, to do repairs without having to re pick, re pick, re pick, especially in a Marine environment is super important. So I like this idea. I think it’ll, you’ll see it in the future, but in specialized cases. Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s a great idea. Our next is up from Siemens, Gamesa. And this one has to do what they call ride through, right? So the equipment on a wind turbine has to handle the grid voltage fluctuations. In order to do that, a lot of the equipment that is on a wind turbine has to be over designed, have special capabilities to handle grid voltage fluctuations. And that leads to additional costs and complexity into the equipment. Well, the Siemens idea is to take a transformer, basically a variable transformer, an auxiliary transformer, and have a quote unquote electronic tap, and a transformer converts electricity from one form into another, simply said. It can raise or lower the voltage, same thing with current. So they’re using semiconductors. So you’ve got a primary and a secondary and a transformer. You can adjust the amount of turns in a primary or a secondary using semiconductors as a switch. So in a voltage fluctuation case, all the auxiliary equipment in the turbine won’t see it because this auxiliary transformer with these semiconductors are going to stabilize the voltage within two AC cycles. Which is really quick, and that allows you to use much simpler, lower cost equipment in the turbine field. This idea makes infinite sense to me. Depending on what the cost is for this auxiliary transformer with all these semiconductor switches, it could be a lot less expensive. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and I think the impetus behind this was for larger onshore turbines. Particularly in markets where you’ve got a need to provide, well, a lot of fluctuation in, in grid voltage and frequency, but also where you may have to be able to provide ancillary services quickly. And so this technology will come in really handy with that, and I, I, it’s funny because every week these, these patents publish and, and we’re reading them at Intel Store to, to extract whatever technology intelligence we can get out of them or just catalog the, the, 60, 000 plus patents that I think we’ve cataloged over the last 14 years now. There are ones like this that actually stand out a little bit because it, it’s not the most revolutionary patent or technology in the world, but it’s something that’s actually going to potentially impact cost and improve function. of a wind turbine. And so we, we like ideas like this and we want to see more ideas like this. Joel Saxum: Allen and I talked with R& D test systems regularly and they have shared with us some of the testing mechanisms that they have to basically introduce grid problems backwards into turbines, into generators, into control systems and all this, to make sure that they work. So this is a system that Gets you that certification that gets you to that level. Then it can handle that. But in like, like Phil said, a more cost effective way. And one of the things I want to focus on here is the speed of which it happens. So when it talks about two AC cycles, okay, if we’re in the United States, usually an AC you’re cycling, it’s, or your power’s at 60 Hertz. So that means two of those 60 Hertz. So at one 30th of a second, this thing can find the issue. Correct that issue. Or if you’re in the European Union and it’s you’re at 50 hertz, then it’s in 1 25th of a second. That’s how fast these things will operate to make sure that that grid interruption, that grid voltage problem or current problem doesn’t make it back up into the turbine to actually damage something. So pretty impressive there. And doing it in a way that saves costs. That’s the kind of stuff that we need within the wind industry to make us more competitive, or to make it more competitive versus other forms of energy generation. Allen Hall: Our last fun idea. Or our last idea of the week is a fun idea regarding Halloween and a Halloween candy container. And if you’ve just had the kids arrive to your house, usually they have some sort of bag or a bucket that they want you to throw some candy into. Well, this is a novel idea because this is sort of a hands free containment device that is worn on the child’s back. So it’s like a, a clear backpack. But on top of that, there’s a chute that comes from the backpack forward with like a little character with an open end, like a I don’t know, a monkey with his mouth open or an elephant with his mouth open. So you actually throw the candy into this little animal mouth and it deposits back in the backpack. So the kid is hands free. I don’t know why the kid would have to be hands free to do this, but the concept is, well, they’re carrying a flashlight, they may be holding someone else’s hand. It’s a safety feature device. Ed, Phil, it’s also fun for the people that get to throw candy at this kid and try to hit the target, I’d Philip Totaro: assume. Well, hopefully they’re not just chuck chucking it at them, but I don’t think that’s almost as happy. Allen Hall: It’s all those little tiny ones, not those big full candy bars that you give out, Phil. Philip Totaro: Are you a full size candy bar household, Phil? Yes, absolutely. If if we’re doing it, we’re not we’re not miniature or anything. I mean, I’m not from Texas, but every, everything is bigger there, and, and, as it should be. I think this Joel Saxum: thing would work perfect for, I like the idea for berry picking. I do that whenever I’m home up in Wisconsin in the summertime, I’ll bit raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, and if I had this backpack on, it’d just boop, boop. That would keep me from eating them the whole time out of a bucket.

This episode covers Vestas’s manufacturing growth in Italy and Siemens Gamesa’s quarterly results showing both gains and ongoing challenges. The hosts explore how the U.S. election results could reshape renewable energy markets, with discussions ranging from grid infrastructure to natural gas expansion. And an in-depth look at quality control concerns at GE Vernova’s LM Wind Power blade manufacturing facility in Canada, where allegations of falsified quality control data have emerged. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Allen Hall: An endangered sea turtle that was found about a year ago, some 5, 000 miles from its native waters, has been released back into the Gulf of Mexico, according to the Houston Zoo. The sea turtle was found off the coast of, guess where? The Netherlands, after becoming entangled in the net of a commercial fishing boat. The zoo said the turtle apparently was carried by currents until it was found, and the U. S. National Fish and Wildlife Service secured the turtle’s return. Guys, there’s a really interesting bit. Some fishermen somewhere realized that this turtle didn’t belong off the coast of the Netherlands and decided to return it. Of all things. They took it to the Rotterdam Zoo the Rotterdam Zoo where it was nursed back the health. And then had a, must have a first class flight back to Houston where it was put back in the Gulf of Mexico. But this little turtle went a long ways. 5, 000 miles is quite a ride, right? Joel Saxum: I can’t imagine it was doing very well in the cold water up there either. Cause right now, even now the Gulf of Mexico is 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Yeah, he, the Allen Hall: turtle at some point had to know it wasn’t in the Bahamas anymore, right? It’s not gonna swim back from there. Rosemary Barnes: I saw a story recently about a king penguin that that swam from Antarctica to Australia to Perth. It was it’s not that far, I think it was like 3, 000 kilometers or maybe a little bit more, but similar thing of yeah. Animal just, just the kind of point in the direction and then just keep going until they reach land. It’s some decent persistence. Allen Hall: Isn’t it crazy when you think about how animals have moved around the planet? And then you, that’s impossible. And then Rosemary says there’s a penguin that’s got about 1, 500 miles, just taking a light swim. Joel Saxum: That’s crazy. There’s a book about this called Super Navigators, and it’s really fascinating, actually, to be honest with you. Allen Hall: This turtle is back home in the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico, which is a great story, right? Gulf of Mexico for the winter. Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’ll be joined by my Uptime co host after these news headlines. Thanks A major expansion of wind turbine manufacturing is underway in Toronto, Italy as Vestas begins production of its V236 15MW offshore wind blades. The facility will produce 115. 5 meter blades capable of powering 20, 000 European households each year. The expansion, supported by EU recovery funds, will create 1, 300 new jobs in the region. The Port of Toronto has granted Vestas a nine year concession to use its logistics platform, establishing the port as a strategic hub for wind energy component manufacturing and distribution. This development marks a significant step in expanding Europe’s wind energy supply chain. Siemens Gamesa reported a mixed fourth quarter performance with revenue growing significantly to 3. 1 billion. billion euros, up 19 percent compared to the same period last year, driven largely by increased offshore wind business activity. However, the division continued to face challenges, posting a negative profit of 472 million euros for the quarter. While this represents an improvement from last year’s 670 million euro loss, the results still reflect ongoing project margin pressures due to quality issues and increased product costs. Orders were moderately down to 4. 1 billion euros compared to 4. 2 billion euros in the previous year. The company’s order backlog increased to 38 billion euros, supported by a major North Sea order worth 2. 9 billion euros. Looking ahead to fiscal 2025, Siemens Comansa expects revenue growth to decline between 5 and 9 percent as it continues working towards achieving break even performance by fiscal year 2026. Scottish Power Renewables has finalized a 1 billion pound agreement with SMOs CESA to supply 64 wind turbines for its East Anglia two offshore wind farm. The project located off England’s East Coast has a capacity of nearly one gigawatt and will use SG 14 SG 36 DD turbines with a 236 meter rotor diameter. The 115 meter blaze will be produced at Siemens GI Mesa’s whole facility. which has grown to employ 1, 300 people following the addition of 600 new staff in the past year. The 4 billion pound wind farm is expected to generate enough clean energy to power nearly 1 million homes. GE Vernova, the world’s third largest wind turbine manufacturer, will continue its pause on seeking new offshore wind turbine orders while awaiting improved market conditions. The company currently has a 3 billion backlog that will take two years to complete. CEO Scott Straszak cited supply chain strains and rising interest rates as key challenges. The company’s offshore wind turbine unit has not added to its order backlog for almost three years, instead focusing on executing existing projects. GE plans to standardize its turbines to improve quality and reduce costs, though it announced potential cuts of 900 jobs in its offshore wind unit this September. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management has completed its final environmental impact statement for the proposed 2. 4 gigawatt south coast wind project. The development includes 147 wind turbines and five offshore substations with eight offshore export cables, potentially making landfall in Brighton Point or Falmouth, Massachusetts. The lease area covers 127,000 acres, situated 26 nautical miles south of Martha’s Vineyard, and 20 nautical miles south of Nantucket. That’s this week’s top. News stories. After the break, I’ll be joined by my co-host, the Chief Commercial Officer of Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Joel Saxum the founder and CEO of Pardalote Consulting, Rosie Barnes. And the founder and CEO of InterStor, Phil Totaro. Unlock your wind farm’s best performance at Wind Energy O& M Australia, February 11th to 12th in sunny Melbourne. Join industry leaders as they share practical solutions for maintenance, OEM relations, and asset management. Discover strategies to cut costs, keep your assets running smoothly, and drive long term success in today’s competitive market. Register today and explore sponsorships at www. windaustralia. com. All Allen Hall: So preparations are underway for Wind Energy O& M Australia in Melbourne on February 11th if you haven’t visited windaustralia. com, you’re missing out because the registrations are active. A lot of people have registered already and the sponsors are rolling in. Joel Saxum: So as we’ve been putting this together, we’ve had a lot of reach outs. We’ve been reaching out on LinkedIn. We’ve been reaching out an email to people down in Australia and around the globe. And we’ve had quite a few people reach back out to us saying they want to be involved. So we’ve got a couple of panelists line or some great panelists lined up. We’ve got a few that we’re in the pipeline right now to be sponsors, and they’re going to bring some crazy, innovative ideas, some things that are happening around the wind world where they’re actually, they’re helping operators in a big way. But we can’t say who they are quite yet, but stay tuned for that. Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s going to be a great event. Rosie’s going to be there. At least she promised to be there. Bill’s going to be there. Joel’s going to be there. And I guess I’m coming too. So it should be a good time. All the uptime crews will be there. And if you’re interested. In sponsoring or attending, you need to visit windaustralia. com. Rosie, in the U. S. we had an election. You may not have heard about it, but, Rosemary Barnes: Did you? Allen Hall: Yeah, we did. Rosemary Barnes: Anyone I know involved? Allen Hall: Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have competed and at least at the latest count it looks like Trump will be president come January 20th. Now, this has sent the renewable energy world all aflutter. There’s a lot of concern about it because during the election campaign, for offshore wind, Trump promised to shut down all the permitting for, or put a suspension on all the permitting for offshore wind. I don’t even sure that is really possible without having some valid reason, Joel. I’m not sure that can happen, but there’s a lot of people that are concerned about it, and you’ve seen a number of LinkedIn articles saying the world is ending, and I’m not sure that’s the case. Rosemary Barnes: I, I don’t see it from an outside perspective. I can’t see that it’s going to be disastrous for, Energy transition in general. However, Trump really dislikes wind specifically. And I think that wind was already probably not looked after as much as all other energy transition technologies from the IRA. That’s my belief anyway. So I do think it could be bad for wind. It’s definitely not a tailwind for wind energy, right? It’s Yeah. How much of a headwind remains to be seen. But I don’t want to get into the, it’s immensely comforting to me that I am not a U S citizen and I don’t really need to care that personally about it. Like I don’t need to get personal about it. Of course I care a whole lot about the energy transition cause that’s a global thing. But other than that, I can avoid getting too invested. But yeah, and some of the personality involves, personalities involved. I’m, like thoroughly sick of seeing what they have to say. But that said Elon Musk, love him or hate him. And it’s probably, fewer people outside of the US who love him these days. I still would find it really hard to believe that he would be keen in scrapping all kind of, energy transition incentives obviously electric cars, that’s still a big part of why he is the, I think he’s the wealthiest person in the world, right? And a lot of that’s to do with Tesla. Tesla stock has gone up heaps, like 60 percent or something in the last month. That’s a part of it. And I also, as crazy as he’s gotten on yeah, any range of topics that he talks about these days, I haven’t actually heard him say anything crazy about the energy transition. I haven’t heard him talk about it at all for a long time, but the last time that he was publicly saying stuff about energy. In the, after the Twitter takeover and, the foray into all sorts of other topics that I disagree with his opinions on. He was still saying stuff that was sensible to my ear about energy. So I am cautiously, optimistic that his presence will actually, moderate the kind of damage that Trump might be inclined to, to do about that. So yeah, we’ll see. And there’s a lot of big unpredictable personalities involved. So I wouldn’t like to get too rational about my predictions and think that, that it’s possible to have any certainty, but I’m not totally despondent about, I would struggle to believe that it’s going to be catastrophic for the global climate. Joel Saxum: I think there’s a couple of things to think about that for wind energy professionals or energy transition, anybody involved in it can sit back and be a little bit more comfortable. These are my thoughts. One of them is one of the things that Donald Trump ran on was deregulation and fixing some permitting problems. If you do this, those things for oil and gas, say on the, dealing with public land or lease areas or any of these sorts of things and in interstate cross boundary pipelines and that kind of stuff, those are the same kind of regulation, the same kind of regulatory bodies that regulate wind and or solar and or batteries. So if we’re deregulating that side of things, it actually might make regulations easier and permitting processes quicker for wind. So that’s one thing. Another one, if you look back just at history, 2016 to 2020, Donald Trump was president once already. And during that era, we had a boom in wind energy development. And most of that was driven. This was pre IRA bill, of course, right? But most of that was driven because capital was cheaper at that point in time. The cost of capital was not as high as it is. Now, or has been for the last few years. And so if we see that same kind of economic trend as what happened in 2016 to 2020, based on policies, I think that you could actually see development at, at least on the onshore level, spike, I think you could see it go up because cost of capital, if the economy is doing better, the global economy is doing better, the cost of capital is cheaper. And that makes it easier for developers to buy into things and make it happen. And that’s just a couple of thoughts. Allen Hall: But there’s really nothing that a president can do inside of a state anyway. Joel Saxum: Federal waters. That’s what we, that’s one of the things he ran on as well was, I’m going to do this and leave it to the States. I’m going to do this and leave it to the States. That’s actually the way the constitution is designed in the United States. It’s power to the States. The federal government’s just there to support. And over the years, the federal government has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. That’s another thing Rosemary, as Elon Musk has said we’re going to reduce some of the waste in the government and try to. Make it not so big. So I don’t think that, everybody doom and gloom about wind energy in because of the selection. I actually I’m cautiously optimistic to see what happens January 20th. And for the first a hundred days and over the four year course year to see what happens, because I don’t think it will be as. Bad as is made out to be today. Philip Totaro: If you want to talk about how cost of capital is impacted, we also have to talk about interest rates. And when we talk about interest rates, you got to look back historically at periods when interest rates were unseasonably high and what happens during the times when interest rates are being reduced as a frame of reference for where we are right now, by the way, when you have historically high interest rates and they start, being reduced, there’s almost inevitably a period of recession where we are inevitably in 2025 going to have a recession. How deep it is and how intense it is it’s, it’s inevitable that this is going to happen. So keep that in mind. Now, the consequence of it is when we’re in a recession, interest rates get reduced to Almost zero or significantly reduced down to the point where you don’t have those kind of barriers to projects anymore. So from the interest rate perspective, yes, interest rates are going to come down. We’re going to have to deal with this recession that is, as I said, is inevitable 2025. Hopefully it’s a mild one. Hopefully it’s a short one. And again, this frankly was going to happen regardless of who won the election and whatever the Federal Reserve was going to do and what level of influence the executive branch has over, the, this independent Federal Reserve Board. So that’s the first and probably the most important aspect of this. The second thing that. What we need to look at is what can a president do with an executive order? The reality is, can offshore wind be blocked? Not as much as people think. What an executive order could do is slow down the Department of Interior, and specifically from issuing any approvals for projects that aren’t already either environmentally approved or commercially approved for operation. Allen Hall: And Rosemary, executive order is one thing, but if you look at the GE Vernova statement and now today the Siemens Energy released its quarterly prospectus, the drill baby drill is something that they’ve already planned for. Natural gas turbines. are big money. G. E. Vranova’s stock has gone up 17 percent this week. There’s gonna be a huge push into natural gas, and the closing of a lot of coal fired electricity factories. And the reason they’re giving is AI, that in order to power all these data centers and to make AI magic, They’re going to need a lot of power and because they don’t have the renewables where they wanted to, and nuclear is not really an option in the States so much, in fact, they shut it down. It’s all natural gas. Does that make any sense? Rosemary Barnes: I know that the projections for, future electricity usage in the United States, 4 percent of the increase is associated with data centers. I’m pretty sure I’m remembering that correctly, maybe it was 4 or 5%. It’s very, it’s a nice convenient thing. If you have an incentive to say that there’s going to be increased electricity demand, then that’s a nice reason to attach to it. I know that in their planning most utilities around the world, and I’m pretty sure that a lot, maybe all of them in the UK. US are the same. The way that you make a return is by making an investment and then you’re allowed to, and a guaranteed rate of return on that. So they always want to invest in more electricity generation. And even though electricity demand has been very flat for, I don’t know, what, like 20 years or a long time anyway in the US and most developed countries, they have been looking back at their projections for the future. They’re always predicting that it will increase. It’s, it’s been flattened out. It’s about to increase massively. That’s what they’ve been saying. So take it with a grain of salt. Allen Hall: Hang on, Rosemary. I don’t think you take it with a grain of salt here because Hitachi, which is the largest manufacturer of high voltage transformers has like a four year backlog. There’s a lot of electrical infrastructure that is happening. So that feeds into your consensus. Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so the whole point of the, the energy transition, we’re transitioning to electrification of a lot of things that used to be, served by burning gas or by burning petrol slash gasoline. So there is going to be a lot more electricity used as we transition. So I think we’re all expecting that to happen. It, it’s starting to ramp up now we’re in the early days of it. I don’t think we see a huge difference in the amount of electricity generation that we need yet, but we’re all expecting it right. So whether it’s because of. Data centers. No, it’s not. It’s not because of data centers. That’s one of 20 other factors of the same or more of an impact. Yes, we will need more electricity. Allen Hall: Let me ask you this. If we’re going to put more natural gas turbines onto the grid, To produce electricity, we’re going to need more grid. If there’s more grid, does that allow us to have more renewables that plugs into that grid? Because if one thing is going to happen, they need to, and the drill baby drill does happen, they’re going to have to hang transmission line and have switchgear to take that electricity to where they need it. And once that happens, doesn’t that open up the possibility to more renewables popping online? Solar and wind. Rosemary Barnes: Allen, you’ve got the talking point wrong. If you’re playing the role of gas industry booster, everyone knows you only need transmission for renewable energy and that nuclear or or fossil fuels don’t need any transmission because, everyone’s got like a rooftop nuclear power plant or a rooftop gas turbine. And That’s how it works. So yeah jokes aside, yes, more transmission. But the other thing is that like gas, a gas power plant is super fast to build. And it’s of the kind of project that utilities everywhere are very used to doing. That’s another thing with the planning. If you say. Okay, we’ve had flat demand for ages. And now it’s all of a sudden about to increase massively demand. We need to put a gas turbine in because it’s the only thing we can do fast enough. That is another little bit of, I think like a forward projection that just like they’re working backwards from, We’ll have a gas power plant because it’s the easiest thing to do and we can, get a return on our investment. But it’s, like it’s unlikely to come on as fast as they’re saying. And with a little bit more time, you could plan a cheaper system if you would, yeah, build out more transmission and more renewables. And, Maybe there will be some new gas peakers, like I’m personally not opposed to gas supporting the energy transition while we wait for batteries to get cheap enough that they can, completely eliminate the need for gas peakers, which they are, by the way, already like strongly making inroads into that in California and also Texas. I would say it’s a short term horizon that the, rush on gas turbines would be for rather than a long term one. Joel Saxum: Rosemary, what is, maybe you know this, I think of anybody you’d probably know this on the panel here, what’s the average size of a gas, like a natural gas powered power plant? Four to five hundred megawatts. Okay, so you’re the size so one gas plant is the size of A large wind farm. You’re talking 100, 150 tower wind farm is the size of one gas plant. Ish. Rosemary Barnes: Ish. I think it’s a wrong comparison though. It’s like batteries. Batteries is the right comparison. Like how, because batteries are also super quick to put in. The world’s first big, like grid scale battery. Was in South Australia, and again, it’s, Elon Musk. They got it up in three months. Three, three months from when the contract was signed. Maybe about six months from when they first started talking about it. Like that’s fast. Joel Saxum: He’s not normal. They also built like the gigafactories. They said they’re gonna take five years to build the first gigafactory. And they did it in 18 months. So that’s an Elon Capital Projects thing. Rosemary Barnes: But still, when you look at, when you look at construction timelines for big batteries, we’re talking a year, maybe two years for a big project. We’re not talking like nine years for a nuclear power plant, like it’s, it is very different. So they’re also fast and as prices are still dropping and people are starting to see how profitable they are in when you combine batteries with. A lot of solar power, then you can get most of the year you can get really cost effective, flexible energy system, electricity system. I think we’ll see more of that. Joel Saxum: I know, Allen, when you and I are driving around West Texas earlier this year, we saw a lot of, Pseudo co located renewables and batteries, renewables, batteries, and data centers. And the data center thing is not going to slow down, right? Like we just saw this other one and Allen, you mentioned it briefly, but there was Three Mile Island was going to be unmothballed. And another plant was supposed to be converted over to being used for data centers. And they were going to take these nuclear power plants and use them for data centers. And that got squashed by FERC. So the companies that were associated with that, I think it was Constellation, their stock dropped like 15 percent overnight when that happened. Allen Hall: That’ll change though, don’t you think, Joel? I think that those nuclear power plants will get fired back up again with a new administration. I think that’s going to be high on the priority list. Unless there’s some safety issue that Is preventing it, but that wasn’t even in the discussion point, I don’t think. Joel Saxum: If you look at nuclear doctrine for energy, one of the big reasons behind not making it large scale, at least coming out of the United States, was to not share nuclear technology around the world. Oh hell, North Korea has it now. Allen Hall: Every Iran has it. It’s everywhere. Joel Saxum: It’s everywhere now. Why not? What’s the why are we holding back? Allen Hall: It’s gonna be well, I assume Rosemary They will televise the inauguration into Australia’s to make sure everybody sees it and I know you’ll be Attune to that. I’ll have to get the VCR ready so you can record it. This is going to be like at two in the morning for you, I’m sure. Philip Totaro: She’ll be watching the Australian Open Tennis on Nine Gem. As busy wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial. And let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime Podcast recommends PES Wind magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PEs wind.com today. Allen Hall: If you’ve been following the news very closely in Northern Canada there’s been some reports of. Quality control problems at the Vernova LM wind power blade manufacturing facility, and as reported in one of the Gaspé newspapers, there was an internal investigation revealing employees were allegedly directed to falsify quality control data. And that made blade data was reportedly associated with poorly made blades. The plant management had a point system that encouraged skipping verification steps. This is all alleged, of course, still. And those are some of the 107 meter blades that are at vineyard wind at the moment that are struggling. and GE is trying to take corrective actions for that. It apparently a senior employee at GE Vernova went up to the gas bay plant and told everybody what had gone on. This is a big deal. There’s been a lot of allegations, and I have read so little about this, but I’ve heard it from so many places over the last 12 months, that there has been some doctoring of quality data. Particularly the Canada plant is the one that I hear the most about and which becomes just horribly bad for Vernova and LM as, that’s, it sounds like from what I can tell, and the. The events, if you lay them out on a timeline, pretty much as GE upper management figured out this was going on, heads were rolling and rightly it looks like GE lawyers came in and started to suss out what was happening, but the damage is already done. Now, as a group of us, I can imagine each one of us is thinking, this is insane. What are we doing as an industry when this is going on? And Part of it may just be just the pressure. And there was pressure to push out blades. There was part, a lot of pressure to get blades delivered on time, particularly offshore, which GE really hasn’t done. Been taking orders for years for now. They just want to be done with it. There’s a lot of internal pressure here, but this is definitely not the right way to go about it. Do you see, is there more of this? Is this wider spread than just this one place? What are we all hearing? Joel Saxum: Yeah, let’s hope not. I know one thing I did see was an article today that stated that head of GE Vernova still says sales for offshore wind are on ice. They’re not even pursuing them. So they’re not even going after them. They’ve shut that thing down. And Allen, what you alluded to earlier, you and I watching through LinkedIn and stuff, they’re head of offshore. Was it June or July? Yeah, and is now Philip Totaro: retired. And they replaced the executive team at LM previously, so they’re, because as it’s, as the allegations go, the LM executives were, and again, whoever directed them to if it was self directed or, Encouraged by whomever we still don’t know, but the report is that they put in a quote unquote points system and we’re tracking whether people were, getting things done in a timely fashion, potentially at the expense of quality. And that’s not an environment that is, it’s obviously unhealthy from a corporate standpoint, but it’s also a really bad look for the industry. At a point in time when, the people at, in and around, The vineyard wind project are already apoplectic about, a one blade having a failure and leaving, some shards of fiberglass in the water. The fact that it may have been, induced deliberately by, executive order that’s extremely concerning. Allen Hall: But isn’t that a part of the problem when we have the headquarters of a blade manufacturer so far away from the manufacturing facilities? Unless you have a really tight control of what’s going on day to day, craziness I’ve seen it, I’ve worked in aerospace forever, I’ve seen the manufacturing facilities, that seems really indicative of that situation where the management is isolated away. This is a case about Boeing that the Boeing headquarters is in Chicago, not in the Seattle area where they’re making airplanes. That’s a huge problem because the oversight is thousands of miles away from the actual working activity. If it’s something where your job depends upon a quality product coming out the door, typically you like to be somewhere near that. Wind is hard because you’re making blades all over the place. It’s a global business. Joel Saxum: I think an important thing here is Rosemary on the panel here because she’s the only one of us that have spent time in a manufacturing facility for blades because there’s a million things in my, I’ve walked through the processes before, right? So there’s visual inspections, there’s certain times that, molds are able to be open, molds have to be closed on time, resins that have to set up in a certain way, glues that have to be, so we don’t know what. These falsified documents and I want to stress allegedly falsified. We don’t know this. This is a newspaper and some people in the industry talking. So what are some of these things, Rosemary, that do, in your mind, where could this have gone wrong? What could have happened here? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, Guthrie is the first wind turbine blade factory that I ever set foot on. I spent two weeks there. As soon as I started working at LM Wind Power, all the engineers in LM do a week usually of training in a factory to learn all of the different processes. It’s really important when you’re. Looking for a company that you know, you’re designing, but it has to be manufactured. It’s really important that, the realities of that, the part that I think that you would be able to to swap data out more, most easily. And what would make the most difference would be some of the scans. They do a bunch of non destructive testing on certain aspects of the blade. And the images that are taken are usually saved and you can look back at them afterwards. Some of the defects that I’ve worked on they’ve gone back to say, okay let’s see if we can find something in the scan that we missed, because, there’s a lot of images generated from one blade. And some of the analysis is being done with AI and maybe there’s something missing. So that would be my guess what would be the easiest part of it, the whole thing to falsify. But I’m, my mind is blown that someone would do that because it’s one thing to fudge things that aren’t important to save time. But it’s another thing, like when you know that this quality stuff matters. Yeah, like it’s definitely levels. Several levels beyond the worst thing that I ever saw working in a factory. And I am really disheartened by the fact that it has happened in our industry and happened to my previous employer. And it happened at a factory that, I worked and knew people and and liked them. So yeah, just overall dis, disappointing is, times 10. Joel Saxum: So Allen, you’re, yourself being like an engineering manager in the past. Is this look like a cultural issue or does this point to a person or an administration that directed things? And how do you fix it? Do you go wipe that factory clean or what does it look like? Allen Hall: Yeah. When this has happened in situations, I’ve been near. Goes on as the lawyers come in, because there’s a legal consequence to this, and the company can be brought to criminal court by the, in this case, Canada, or Quebec even there are going to be some consequences here more than likely. And the company hate that. Rosemary Barnes: It’s a small town, right? It’s a big employer in that region. And it was a big deal when that factory got started, it was actually by a guy who was a local and had gone away and then saying, okay, we should be able to have a factory in my hometown. And he he made it happen. And it was really important for the area because traditionally it’s a lot of seasonal work there. And this was an employer that operated year round. Yeah. It’s not going to be easy to just fire. the, all the workers and start again because you won’t have, you won’t have that pool of potential labor there. Management, yes but otherwise they’re gonna be shutting down the factory if they have to fire everybody. Allen Hall: I think they’re bringing in workers. Some of the news reports that have appeared over the last six months or so say that that facility was bringing workers from outside the country on, what, six month work permits because they didn’t have enough people to support it. Yeah. Joel Saxum: 179 days. See you later. Allen Hall: So that could lead to it, in my opinion, if you’re a transient worker in a factory and you’re being told to push something out the door, it leads to those conditions. Of wrong decisions being made. Rosemary Barnes: If you’ve got no future there anyway, then. Allen Hall: Exactly. I get I’m only going to be here for an 80, 180 days. I need to make money and go back to my home country. I’m going to do what they tell me to do. And that’s where I say that the headquarters, some of the leadership of the company have to be kicking the tires all the time. That is just one of the things you have to do. You have to be constantly checking up further down the chain. And it’s so hard. When you are literally thousands of miles away, Gaspé is not near Quebec, right? It’s how many hours of a drive is it once you get to Quebec to land? Rosemary Barnes: Like 10 or something, 10 or 12. It’s a long drive. Joel Saxum: I’m going to put it, I’m going to put a different hat on, and I’m going to put on the hat of a developer, right? We know, okay, that GE has stopped selling offshore wind turbines right now. However, I’m going to look at the situation that happened in that factory and I’m going to try to see if that same situation, migrant workers, like you said, the engineering headquarters removed from the factory. I’m going to see if that same situation is happening at where I may be getting my blades from. And I’m going to have a better microscope. On the factory where I’m getting my stuff. Rosemary Barnes: Hold on. We can’t blame the migrant workers when this was management that were signing off on this. It would have clearly contributed, but management wasn’t there on, six month visas and then they just left the company. I hope, if they were, that’s a pretty, pretty obvious weak point, but I’ll be, yeah, pretty certain that’s not how it worked. They have to be fired, obviously, all those managers. And, yeah, consider But Joel Saxum: I want to look at it this way. If I’m looking at the exact same situation in another place where I’m getting product from, I’m going to look into it a lot harder. That’s me. Philip Totaro: But Joel, let’s take that conversation one step further. Rosemary just made mention of something about how long it took to perfect the design and manufacturing process for that blade in the first place. Look at what the Chinese are doing. They’re building blades that are literally twice the length of the one that GE has, and it’s GE. They’ve got, what, 180 year history and pedigree of building products and all that. These Chinese companies are now trying to go out there and build a 300 meter rotor. On a 25 megawatt wind turbine. How is that even going to happen? Allen Hall: I don’t know. I just want it fixed. I want this process to stop whatever caused that situation. If it is what it has been alleged to stop. And from what I can tell, GE. Bonova came in and just cleaned house. That’s what it looks like to stop it immediately. And that may be part of the reason why they’re not looking to get back into offshore wind also, is that they have so much to undo that they need time to undo it. Philip Totaro: Potentially, but they’re also withholding sales because they’re not getting, they’re asking for a price increase to accommodate, a, Inflation, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And they’re not getting those, that price increase. So their management has also said, we’re not taking the risk on margin anymore, particularly when, if you uncover a situation like this and it introduces a potentially huge financial liability to the company, you can’t be doing that on thin margins. You have to be doing it where you’ve got cash in the bank. Allen Hall: The oil and gas companies do. Joel Saxum: You got to operate on an 80 percent margins for 30 years, and then you can have the cash. Allen Hall: That’s going to do it for this week’s Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. Thanks for listening. Please give us a five star rating on your podcast platform and subscribe in this notice below to Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter, and check out Rosie’s YouTube channel, Engineering with Rosie, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

This week on News Flash, Vattenfall invests 5 billion euros in Germany through 2028, Octopus Energy has surpassed two billion dollars in offshore wind investments, and the Asian Development Bank has secured groundbreaking sovereign guarantees for climate finance. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Welcome to Uptime News Flash. Industry news lightning fast. Your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, and Phil Totaro discuss the latest deals, mergers, and alliances that will shape the future of wind power. News Flash is brought to you by IntelStor. For market intelligence that generates revenue, visit www. intelstor com. Allen Hall: First up, Swedish utility Vattenfall is investing 5 billion euros in Germany through 2028, showing major commitment after selling their Berlin heating business. The company plans to build 500 megawatts of solar parks and 300 megawatts of large batteries annually. Two major offshore wind parks, the Nordelake 1 and 2, will add 1. 6 gigawatts of wind capacity. And they’re also investing 500 million euros in EV charging infrastructure. Wow, Phil, Vattenfall’s going a little crazy in Germany at the moment. This is a big investment. Philip Totaro: Well, and it’s coming at a kind of an interesting time because, there’s been some, uh, hard to say whether it’s mild or moderate disarray in the German government at this point particularly in terms of the level of support that is, is gonna be provided long term to, to renewables. But Vattenfall at least understands and appreciates the fact that, they’ve got a pipeline that, that’s pretty big besides the Nordlicht 1 and 2 projects. I think they’ve got an additional 1. 5 gigawatts of onshore wind and or solar and, and battery pipeline That they have in, in Germany. So, they’re, they’re really swinging for the fences here and committing a rather large amount of capital at 5 billion Euro. So that’s it, it’s, again, it, it could be challenging short term timeframe, but long term they’re positioning themselves to be, as big of a player in, in Germany as they, they are in some of the other markets outside of, of Sweden. Where they operate. Joel Saxum: I think a big part of this five billion euros as well as that Nordlicht one and two for 1. 6 gigawatts of offshore wind capacity, because that’s just a lot of money to build that big of wind farms offshore. But when you look onshore in Germany, it’s a bit harder to develop wind. You have permitting issues and those kind of things, but the tracks of land, it’s not like we’re here in the United States where we can put 100, 150 turbines out. The tracks of land are smaller, The setback limits are a lot bigger. They have different rules, right? It’s a little operations and maintenance is a bit more difficult, more expensive because you have, it’s like you have to test your lightning protection systems every two years. You, you have to have multiple ice detection systems. If you’re within a certain setback of a road, there’s, there’s all kinds of little nuances in Germany there. But Vattenfall clearly sees the the advantages of doing some business there. And I know that Germany as a whole. Like you said, Phil, they’re in a little bit of a turmoil right now, but they need it. So good on them. Allen Hall: In our second story, Octopus Energy has surpassed two billion dollars in offshore wind investments in just two years. They now hold stakes in six offshore wind farms across three European countries. The portfolio includes Hornsea One, one of the world’s largest wind farms, plus projects in the Netherlands and Germany. And the company has launched an innovative fan club tariff, giving locals discounted rates when it’s windy outside. So Octopus is a really unique company, Phil. They’re doing innovative things, but they’re also investing heavily in offshore wind. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and, and this is actually kind of fantastic because they’re doing this, I mean, as a, an investment group parent company to this, octopus energy utility that they, they run. But they’re, I’ll refrain from using the tentacles joke because I think I’ve already talked about how their tentacles are everywhere. So, they, the, The reality, though, is that with this business model where they’re inviting in kind of smaller investors or offering this, quote unquote fan club tariff they’re, they’re working on a lot of unique ways in which they can get community engagement where the community can clearly see the benefit that they get out of the investments that that are going into this, or if the tariffs are fixed or are being raised, at least the community sees what they’re getting out of it. And I think that’s become increasingly important throughout Europe, the UK especially, but the rest of Europe as well, where octopus energy is, is predominantly investing in, in offshore wind. So, again, good on them for, for what they’re doing. And we, we hope to be able to see more of it. Joel Saxum: I’d like to talk about something that is completely related to octopus energy and what they’re doing just for a second, but it’s not wind related. What octopus energy has Has done in the last few years is since jumping onto the market. This company is not old. They’re fairly new, only a couple of years old and the amount of capital that they’ve attracted and what they’ve done is a brand to bring people along for the journey of renewable energies. For, like the fan club and kind of all, if you go on their websites, you see, it’s just a bit more friendly of an energy company. It seems like it’s easier to get on board with. I think they’ve done a fantastic job of branding themselves and bringing that forth for renewable energy generation. And I’d like to see more companies do this because they don’t seem like this staunch kind of hard up energy company. It seems like something that you’re just dealing with your friends and you’re, you’re getting on board with the energy transition. So I really like what they’ve done. Allen Hall: And we need more of that in the, in the States at the moment. And over in Asia, the Asian Development Bank has secured groundbreaking sovereign guarantees for climate finance. The U. S. will guarantee 1 billion in Japan, 600 million of existing loans. That’s great. Creative structure will increase ADB’s climate lending to 7. 2 billion. Their first project uses 90 million to create sustainable aviation fuel in Pakistan, converting cooking oil to jet fuel. Wow. The Asian Development Bank is pretty busy, Phil. This is one of the things that sort of Europe is doing, but you’re starting to see it in other places. Philip Totaro: Yeah. And for those that aren’t familiar, the Asian Development Bank has made rather substantial investments already in wind, solar, and battery storage projects in Southeast Asia basically covering almost the entire Asia Pacific region outside of China. So they’re developing things in the Philippines, in Thailand all over the place, even, even, frankly, investing a little bit in some of the projects in Australia as well. So they’re, they’re making important strides here with the investments they’ve already made and the fact that they’ve been able to raise this much additional capital and get these kind of sovereign wealth commitments. To, to offer an additional 7. 2 billion. That’s, that’s extremely important and impressive. Joel Saxum: I’m super happy to see these projects moving forward. Sustainable aviation fuel. We know the aviation industry uses a lot of, hydrocarbons in what they do. And these kind of things with this capital being deployed. However, I’m not a huge fan of the U. S. underwriting a billion dollars of it when we could be doing these projects on our own shore.

Allen and Joel sit down with Jonathan Cole, CEO of Corio Generation and Chairman of the Global Wind Energy Council, for an illuminating discussion on the future of offshore wind energy. Cole shares invaluable insights on navigating regulatory challenges across multiple markets, building sustainable supply chains, and securing project financing. He also emphasizes the critical role of community engagement through what he calls “social license” in developing successful offshore wind projects. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, joined by my co host, Joel Saxum. Today, we’re honored to have with us Jonathan Cole, a visionary leader in the global offshore wind industry. and a key figure driving the transition to sustainable energy. Jonathan is the CEO of Corio Generation, a global offshore wind powerhouse, launched in April of 2022. As a portfolio manager of Macquarie Asset Management operating independently, Corio has quickly established itself as a major player in the renewable energy sector. Under Jonathan’s leadership, Corio has amassed one of the world’s largest offshore wind development portfolios, boasting over 30 gigawatts of projects in various stages of development across Europe, Asia Pacific, and the Americas. Jonathan’s influence extends far beyond his role at Corio. He currently serves as the chairman of the Global Wind Energy Council, GWEC. and his industry expertise has been recognized through numerous leadership positions. These include chairing the Global Offshore Wind Health and Safety Organization, the UK’s Offshore Wind Program Board, and the Offshore Renewable Energy Catapults Industry Advisory Group. He has also been a board member of Renewable UK and a member of the UK’s Offshore Wind Industry Council. Before joining Corio, Jonathan played a pivotal role in shaping the offshore wind landscape at eBird DLA from 2010 to 2021, he spearheaded the creation and growth of Ebert Della’s offshore wind business, transforming it into a market leader with approximately 14 billion Euros invested a project pipeline exceeding 30 gigawatts, and a team of 800 professionals spanning four continents and 11 countries. Jonathan’s a very busy person and we appreciate his time. Jonathan, welcome to the program. Great to be here with you. You’ve been a busy person. I’ve been watching your LinkedIn account in all the countries and continents you’ve been on over the last couple of months. You’re busy in offshore wind and you were just in New York for the climate week. What was some of the outcome from those sessions that you attended? Jonathan Cole: Yeah, it’s a busy time for offshore wind and busy time for me, particularly. And I was in New York last week really with two hats on. One was with my Corio CEO hat on because we’ve got a big project out there in New York Attentive Energy. So I was spending some time with the team out there and hearing all the great work they’re doing. But also I’m the chair of the Global Wind Energy Council, so I was out there with that hat on, helping on the advocacy piece more generally. So it was a really interesting week. I think New York Climate Week is a really important date in the calendar, the climate calendar, because it serves as a bit of a precursor for the COP events later in the year and quite often is quite important in setting the agenda for that. So we were out there with the G Wake and the Global Renewables Alliance talking about some of the big topics. That need to be tackled if we’re going to convert into reality the tripling up of renewables that was a part of the last COP 28 treaty, talking about some of the things that need to be done to make that happen. So that was a really interesting and positive week, I have to say. Joel Saxum: Jonathan, if I was to ask what are the top two, maybe, just to keep it simple, the top two things that as the GWF chairman, of course, and at Climate Week, what are the top two challenges that are facing offshore wind at a global scale right now? Jonathan Cole: If you don’t mind, Joel, I’m going to give you a top three, right? Yeah, perfect. There’s three big things that are necessary to happen in order to get the tripling up of renewables on track. So one is on the regulatory side, and that is about putting in place some regulatory enablers. Principally around speeding up the permitting process. So all these great projects that, that, developers like Corio and others want to build can get through that process as quickly as possible, but also on the regulatory side, speeding up the build out of the transmission system, the grid system, so that when the projects are ready. The system is ready to take the power. So that’s the first part of it. The second part of it is around supply chain and trade. And I think we all recognize that there is a huge challenge in tripling up because there’s a huge amount of capacity needing to be built in the supply chain, but also that’s a huge opportunity. One of the most exciting opportunities, actually, that we face is the ability to breathe life and economic activity back into these coastal communities and post industrial towns where offshore wind farms are located, but that doesn’t happen by accident. It needs coordinated action. It needs industrial planning, and it needs a sensible approach to things like trade policy. And the third thing is finance. This Now, finance in the more mature markets and the OECD markets is probably less of an issue, although the cost of capital going up has really had an impact and we need to do what we can to de risk and try to take that cost of capital back down. But when you think of finance in the non OECD countries and the emerging, markets, developing economies, Finance is one of the single biggest barriers to the energy transition, because access to capital at reasonable terms and reasonable rates is hugely significant. Those developing markets could be paying 4, 5, 6 percent more for capital than in the developed markets, and that makes the energy transition so much more expensive for them. So the three big things, getting the regulations right, and I think there’s a political will to do that. We know who to do that. Getting the supply chain built up. There’s definitely a political will to create the jobs, but we just need to get the right mechanisms in place to do it. And the finance, getting the finance in place, and in particular thinking about de risking for the mature markets. and getting concessional finance and, other finance in place for the emerging markets. Allen Hall: Can I touch upon the regulatory aspect for a minute? Because I think you have such a difficult problem ahead of you. You have projects in the US, UK, South Korea, Ireland, Australia, Taiwan, Brazil. Each one of those has a regulatory framework that is different from the others. In the United States, I think the issue has been more recently, not the federal government, they seem very attuned to developing offshore projects. It seems to be getting it into the states and then into the localities and transmission being one of those issues. How are you starting to navigate some of those state and local issues, particularly in the U. S.? where they seem to arise haphazardly at times. Jonathan Cole: Yeah I think that development of these types of infrastructure projects is very much a local game. You have to really understand the local regulatory framework and the stakeholder landscape to go about it in the right way. And you have to recognize that these are quite long development cycles. They’re complicated projects. It takes a long time to assess the potential and engage the potentially affected or interested parties so that you can find solutions. So you need to be in it for the long term, and you need to understand the landscape that you’re playing into. And then at that point, it’s really just about being very present and very engaging and very transparent and very open. So the US market is a complex market because You’ve got permitting at multiple layers. So you’ve got the federal permits, the BOEM are managing as a one stop shop, which is great for the federal point of view, but then you’ve got state and even, local and municipal permits that you need to get placed. So there’s a lot of intervention there and a lot of need to be constantly sharing and talking and engaging in a positive way, listening to people. adjusting your plans, where you can to try and accommodate those people. Educating a lot of cases about, the positive impacts and trying to dispel maybe some of the myths that you hear. And just generally trying to show people that what we’re doing is a force for good. We’re here to do something good. From a planetary perspective in terms of climate change, but even a local perspective in terms of energy security and local tax areas and job creation and all that stuff. So I think it’s about knowing the landscape and being there every day, working hard, being very transparent and open with people. Allen Hall: I have to applaud Corio because I’ve been following all the work that’s happening in New Jersey and how active Corio is in the community to try to bring local suppliers to connect with the schools, to connect with the neighborhoods. There’s a lot of a ground game that’s going on right now. And you seem willing to put people there and to staff those efforts well ahead of putting foundations in the water. That is, I think, a slightly unique approach that we’ve seen some operators Put engineering offices in and obviously they need to go do that But I think you’re right in the United States getting past that regulatory hurdle happens by the states and localities getting used to you being there and Contributing Joel Saxum: to the local economy. It’s very that’s a very specific thing in the United States for sure Allen we were just talking last night about the difference between what’s happening in the And some of the East Coast towns, as opposed to Wind, as opposed to the Midwest so people lump the United States into one, but it’s really different locally, even from, New England down to Virginia, it’s completely different. Culture and people and ideas, but with choreo and your broader experience with GWEC, really, Jonathan is you’re, because you guys are in, and you’re playing in all kinds of different markets, each one of those has its own like hyper local kind of culture that you need to engage with, to get your messages across properly and everybody needs that differently. How do you guys tackle that? Is it local people in every area or how does that work? Yeah. Jonathan Cole: Yeah, that’s it. I think you have to get the right balance. The way I often phrase this is in offshore wind, in order to be competitive in the market, you need to have a global outlook. But in order to be in the market in the first place, you need to be local and you need to be responsive locally to what’s going on there. And one thing I think we’ve managed to do quite well in Corio, and I guess it’s because we’re a, a relatively agile player, we’re relatively young. A, the type of company we are means that we’re able to get local quite quickly. So if you look in each of the countries where we’re operating, we have very strong local teams in each of those markets who are very well plugged in to the, the policymaking and the regulatory and the stakeholder landscape, so in Korea, in Taiwan, where we were one of the early movers, the market makers. So we’re there able, I think, to do that, and I think it’s really important. The phrase that we use, and a lot of people in our industry use, is social license. If you’re building infrastructure projects that’s going to be in communities for generations, you need to get the social license to be there. You need to show them that you’re doing this with them and for them, not to them and in spite of them. And I think that’s a really important mantra for us is, working with communities to sell the benefits. Um, and be seen as a long term part of the community. That’s what infrastructure, good infrastructure is all about, is it enables economic activity and other activity to flourish if you do it properly. Joel Saxum: I’ve been in the global oil and gas industry, onshore, offshore, global wind, onshore and offshore, large capital projects. I have never heard that term, social license, and I love it. I think it’s a, I think it’s a great way to go about things. Allen Hall: Let’s back up a little bit, and I want to talk about supply chain because that seems to be a huge driver. In offshore wind at the moment, and Jonathan, I’ve watched some YouTube videos, you’re talking about supply chain, what makes sense in terms of supply chain? Is everything local? Is it a worldwide effort? And how do you manage the cost if it if you try to force everything local? Those are some unique insights. You want to explain sort of your thoughts on that? What’s a supply chain should look like when you’re developing large offshore projects? Jonathan Cole: Sure. So I think that the first thing really to see, and this is not me trying to then give a known answer, but There is no single answer to that question. There is no right answer because it very much depends on market by market, area by area, but I think what is important is that when you are developing your supply chain or industrial policy around something like offshore wind, that you align that with your energy policy and you do it in a very rational way. I think there’s three layers to this. There’s localization. There’s regionalization and there’s globalization right now. Localization is basically where you try to bring things that make sense to be done locally, into the local area, and you create economic activity and jobs. Now, there are certain things that can always be done locally, like a lot of the o and m and the services that rely on proximity to the asset, and those are good long term well paid jobs, by the way. Quite often unionized, paid jobs as well. But, depending on your economy, depending on, your labor force, it may be that there’s other things that make a lot of sense to do locally, some of the fabrication and manufacturing, or it may be that actually those things don’t fit very well in your local economy. And there are a lot of big western economies that are quite high wage economies where it doesn’t really make sense to try and do, heavily manualized industrial processes In their economies, because you’re not going to do it as efficiently as it can be done elsewhere. So I think what you need to do is drive, strive for a localization policy that actually makes sense for your own economy. Then when you talk about regionalization, I think there what you’re actually looking at is if you’re in a market where the scale of your own market isn’t big enough to stimulate the level of supply chain investment that’s needed, What you need to start doing is looking outside of your own local market at a more regional solution, aggregating that demand, and then creating a supply chain solution on a regional basis. Now, if you’re talking about the northeast of the U. S., probably the scale is up there. Overall to create a pretty healthy supply chain offering. But if you go individual state by state, not every state in its own right has that scale. And so aggregating and looking at it on a regional basis makes sense. If you go into maybe Southeast Asia, it becomes even more of an issue. Because for those types of countries to get, to attract the investment they need, they’re going to have to do it probably on a more regional basis. And then you’ve got globalization, which is basically those aspects of the supply chain where in order to create resilience, in order to create, you know, efficiencies and economies of scale, You want to be able to source them globally and they’re, relatively mobile components, all the rest of it. And those things you should leave on that basis. And that’s how you create a more resilient, healthy supply chain. So I think that’s the way that I look at it, the way that Corio looks at it. It’s also, I think, very well aligned with how GWEC looks at, these things, localization, regionalization, globalization. Understand the pros and cons of each, understand what works best for your market, your area, your region, and then design an industrial policy that plays to that and is well aligned with your energy policy, and try not to have the two disconnected. Does that make sense? It makes sense to me. I talk about this a lot. Allen Hall: Makes total sense. So just bringing that down a notch, you have to deal with large manufacturers of equipment and the timing of some of your projects is a couple years out. So you have a little bit of flexibility working with OEMs from cables to substations to the wind turbines themselves. How are you approaching this over the next couple of years? Looking at sort of global forecasts for inflation and pricing and the OEMs and trying to get a slot into. Manufacturing a turbine, even. There’s a lot of moving pieces, getting a ship located and scheduled in. How are you trying to manage that in this sort of uneven economic times? Jonathan Cole: I think the best way to do it is to do it in a very transparent way, along with those key suppliers. Sharing openly your own plans, what you’re likely to need, when and where you’re likely to need it. And, having them share back their own capacities and capability to supply, and, that’s a good starting place, because then you’ve got a decent, they’ve got a decent view of how the market looks for them, and if there’s capacity investments needed, then, they get the visibility they need to make that investment case. Equally, we get a view of where, our, how our project planning fits in. And whether we need to adjust that project planning or, the timing for when we need to start making big decisions and securing slots in the supply chain. So I think it has to be done in a very iterative, but quite open, transparent basis. And then we have quite a good team internally who are, a procurement team, who are very engaging in the market and quite well known in the market with these key suppliers, as well as, good engineering teams and other teams who are good at, I think, predicting What we need, how the market’s looking in terms of its ability to supply the things that may influence that price and trying to, make good sensible assumptions about that so that we keep developing our projects with business cases that are, fairly robust and resilient and, less prone to shock. Joel Saxum: I think that, what I’m hearing here is the same thing that we hear from a lot of angles within the wind sector, and it’s just transparency and collaboration, right? Not everybody should have to commission a 50, 000 study from some consulting firm to find out who’s building a wind farm, right? It would be nice if everybody was open about, these are our plans, this is our future. But what you’re saying to me here is, when we talk local, regional, global and the goals of all of these countries, right? When we talk about COP get togethers, and how all of these countries are coming forward and saying, we’re gonna do this by 2030. We’re gonna do this by 2050. And these great things for the energy transition, what I hear is global opportunity for this supply chain, right? So whether it is building components, supporting the people that build the components, because these things trickle all the way down, right? And when you get to the port fac, even into building out port facilities and there there’s jobs made from the global wind industry all the way from, you think about the people building the turbines down to the people. Build it, having the restaurants that are next to the port, right? There’s so much opportunity here that the wind sector is bringing to the world, especially Jonathan, like you had said, some of these, these maybe depressed economies or other places that at once were, Allen and I were in Louisiana the other day, and we were at this port facility that used to employ 26, 000 people. Now there’s a hundred there. But there’s wind coming in and they’re bringing more jobs and expanding these areas that were once thriving back to their, their past legacy, which is great, right? The wind industry has the capability to do that. So with the supply chain, I see that big opportunity coming. However, as we’ve been through permitting and regulatory, we talked a little bit about the supply chain. The really big thing here the elephant in the room for a lot of people is finance. We’ve talked about, we talk about it on the podcast quite often about, what inflation has done and higher interest rates and paused projects and the cost of capital. What do you see as the environment right now and then looking into the future for the ability to finance these large projects? Jonathan Cole: Overall, the liquidity And the desire to provide finance into the projects is probably where it needs to be. But I think that what we’re not helping ourselves, I think, by imposing a bit too much risk and unpredictability and delay in the processes, but, so take, for example, we talk about permitting, right? And we say permitting needs to be shortened. Why does that matter? The permitting phase of a project is the phase where the financing costs the most. ’cause it’s the most at risk, right? And what you and it tends to therefore be funded by equity, not by debt. And they are so therefore, the capacity of the development community to keep going and going the industry. is enhanced significantly if you can shorten those development processes and allow that equity to be released again into other projects and get the projects into the next phase where it’s mostly funded by date. We tend a lot to impose on projects all these additional things that need to be done that put, additional risks into the projects where the more you can simplify a project and its revenue stream, the lower. The cost of capital becomes, and so you can take a lot of risk. So there’s a lot of things that we can do, I think, just by simplifying the regulatory framework to, to improve the terms of financing and to move us through the cycles quicker and therefore create a lot more liquidity. So that’s how I see it. Allen Hall: Let me drop the OEM back into the discussion here in terms of stability. The GE’s and Vestas of the world decided that megawatts is off the table. They’re going to stop at 15 megawatts. That put a lot of uncertainty into your planning. And in the United States, it made some of the states a little nervous because it changes some of the plans and whatnot. What effect does that have on you on planning when the OEMs say, Hey, 15 megawatts is where we’re staying. Or do you go down the pathway of someone like Siemens and that’s it? Call him out, specifically who’s attempting a 20 megawatt generator? How does that play out and how frustrating is that when you’re trying to develop a project and you can’t even define the basic turbine premise. Jonathan Cole: Yeah I think when you’re building infrastructure what’s more important is the timing and sequence of these events than the actual events themselves. A decision to stick at 15 or go to 18 in its own right is not a bad decision as long as it’s made at the right time in the cycle of the project and it’s planned in. And when you are planning the size of the project and the shape of the project and designing all the other plant and equipment around the project, and you’re setting the tariff for the project, if those things are all taken into consideration, then that’s perfectly fine. We, we can work with that. It’s where things change. an inopportune moment that it starts to become more problematic. There’s a perfectly good argument that says that sticking at the same level of turbine size for longer is a healthy thing because it’s good for the balance sheet of OEMs. It allows them to recover some of those investment costs, but also gives you more time to drive, industrialization and, economies of scale and learning curve benefits into the process. And as an industry, we’ve always been really proud of how rapidly we’ve upscaled the technology and rapidly we brought down the cost. But, probably it wasn’t the most industrially efficient thing to do because we were all the time then having to retool and rebuild the infrastructure and the ports and the vessels and all the rest of it. I don’t think turbine size in its own right is a good or bad. I think it’s, it just depends again on the timing of it and, how you then react to that and plan with that. Joel Saxum: I think what that, what we’re like, what you’re getting at is the same thing that we’re, we talk about quite often as well as if we can like, Stopping at 15 megawatts is not bad. It allows us, it allows the supply chain to stabilize is what it really does, right? So when people, the general public doesn’t, hasn’t seen a lot of the operations, but simple things like how you even put a blade onto a ship. All of those mounts and chairs and brackets retooled every time that you change the size of a blade or anything of this sort. So staying at a certain level to be honest with you, it might make it easier and make the supply chain more, like I say, more stable, but some give some longevity and the ability for people, like you said to balance out their balance sheets for lack of a better term over the long time for their, of the R and D that they had to put into these things to, to make it happen. Jonathan Cole: And it is absolutely essential that we do that, because for the energy transition to work, you need a sustainable supply chain. And the economics have to make sense. I think someone said, you can’t get green outcomes with red numbers. I heard that. I think it’s totally true. At the day, this is a 10 trillion investment program to to achieve the energy transition. And that has to be done in a profitable, sustainable way. Not excessively but it has to be profitable enough to make people want to stay in. So I totally agree with that. I think, having been in this industry for a long time, you. I would say that we are a little bit the product of our regulatory environment, and that for a long time in offshore wind, we were basically told, you’re ticking so many of the boxes that we need tech for, but you’re too expensive. You’ve got to get the price down. And our whole mantra, was driving the price down and a big part of that was driving the technology up as well as driving cost of capital down. And so we, we chase through a lot of technology cycles, maybe a bit too quickly as we try to do that. I think nowadays we need a more mature long term outlook, which is to see that this energy transition is not about discovering the cheapest price of electricity. It’s about abating climate change. It’s about creating, clean air and water. It’s about Investment in infrastructure, it’s about energy security, it’s about energy price stability, it’s about job creation and skills and community benefits. All of that has a value. I, and that value deserves to be somehow priced in. So I think, if we get to a point where from a regulatory expectation perspective, we can stick at a price that we’re happy with and we don’t need to keep constantly chasing price reductions, then I think we can then get to a point where we can industrialize and standardize the supply chain more and get much better. Overall outcomes for everyone, but that’s a mindset shift that we’re moving closer to in a lot of markets, but we’re not there yet because a lot of people still think that this has to be cheaper than the alternative as well as better for all those other reasons I mentioned. Allen Hall: That’s a good segue to the long term prospects here for offshore wind. You’re deeply involved in it worldwide. What do you see? Jonathan Cole: I really believe that the long term prospects for offshore wind are extremely positive. I absolutely believe that the energy transition has to take place. It’s essential that we get to a net zero world for the health of our planet, completely and utterly there. And I really believe that the only way we can do that in the time frame we need is to go down the road of an aggressive policy of electrification and decarbonisation. So we electrify as much of the economy as we possibly can. And then we produce that electricity by the wayside. Low carbon sources. And when you look at it that way, you then say what are the technologies available to you to deliver in the time frame? And they are the renewable technologies. And so solar, onshore wind, offshore wind, geothermal, they all have a big role to play in the energy mix of the future. And offshore wind is offering a complementarity to those other renewables technologies. Because it doesn’t have the day by day or seasonal variability. It gives you big scale. In the case of the North East of the U. S. it’s giving you massive scale really close to the demand centers. Without causing problems on the onshore transmission network. So the fundamentals are so obvious that, I think the future is, has got to be bright. I do think we’re going through a difficult phase right now because of inflation and cost of capital increases and supply chain fragility. But if we can hold on there and we can get the support we need from regulators and policy makers, we get through this and then offshore wind is going to be a huge part. of the energy mix. More or less every country with a coastline is going to be using that coastline to produce clean, abundant, affordable, reliable electricity in the future. I’ve got no doubt about that. Joel Saxum: In the last four years or so, we’ve had globally a kind of a tumultuous economic times, right? Where it was, we watched every, no matter what market you’re watching, it’s, it was up and down and up and down for, Quite a while there, but what we need through, and this is an opinion, but what we need through times like that. And what we see going forward for offshore wind is we need a steady hand on the tiller. We need that good leadership to point all of us in the right direction to, to gather these supply chain companies, to make sure that we’re dealing with the proper regulatory agencies to get the permitting in place and those kinds of things. From us, Jonathan, appreciate what you’re doing at Corio and greater in the board positions you have. And what GWEC is doing at the same time. Jonathan, Allen Hall: I want to thank you for your time today. I know you’re a busy person. I know you’re going to be all over the world. And your frequent flower miles must be astounding. And I want to thank you for your time. And if someone wants to learn about Choreo Generation, how would they do that? Jonathan Cole: If they want to hear more, they can find us on social channels, like LinkedIn, and they can get access to all the company details from there. They’ll also be able to keep up with my travel schedule as you mentioned, but they’ll see a lot of good information about all the things we’re doing and the countries we’re doing it and the stuff we’re doing, not just in the projects and shows. But the people that we’re trying to bring along with us on this really important journey. Allen Hall: Yeah. Everybody should check out coriogeneration.com for all the great things that Corio is up to and to find out where their projects are. Jonathan, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We appreciate you having you on the show. I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much to both of you.

This week on Uptime Power-Up, a method from Vestas for modifying control of a wind turbine using load probability, a blade tip swap-out for Cypress turbines from GE, and a wind turbine tower with solar panels installed. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor – https://www.intelstor.comWind Energy O&M Australia Conference – https://www.windaustralia.com Allen Hall: Welcome to Power Up, the Uptime podcast focused on the new, hot off the press technology that can change the world. Follow along with me, Alan Hall, and idasaur’s Phil Totaro, as we discuss the weird, the wild, and the game changing ideas that will charge your energy future. Well, our first idea is from Vestas, and it is an idea where they’re monitoring the Turbine tower loads for natural vibration frequency, and you say, well, why would you want to do that? Well, of course, as things change on a wind turbine, maybe something goes wrong. Those frequencies of vibration are going to change, and the system will detect those and say, hey, something is wrong. Here’s probably what it is, which is a smart way of detecting failure modes in the turbine fill. But the other thing it could do, is push the turbine harder if it’s not being driven hard enough and creating enough power. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and this is actually really fascinating because, again, this might not sound like the world’s most revolutionary, innovation, but it’s a practical solution to a challenge that is faced out there in the field when you’re operating a wind farm. And specifically, in addition to just monitoring the, the tower loads and vibration over time, they have the option to monitor the max extreme load in relation to the original design load limit and readjust that max extreme load value over time as there’s an evolution of the, the. Mechanical performance of, of the turbine. And that to me is, is really clever way of approaching this challenge of having additional safety factor. Or as we see in the United States where turbines get run a lot harder. Than they were potentially designed for. Sometimes because companies are trying to maximize their production tax, credit revenue. This is a way for a company like Vestus to keep an eye on whether or not they’re exceeding a. Safety criteria, or by how much are you exceeding a safety criteria of, the design load limit versus the max extreme load limit, which will necessarily change over time. As components wear and, and as the tower sees certain load cases on it. So I, I like this one a lot. I think, again, this is a really practical and clever thing. It might not be, or sound like the world’s most revolutionary. Invention ever, but I, I like stuff like this. This is a really great one. Joel Saxum: I think it’s a functional way of ensuring the safety and operation of the turbine. Right. The, the ability to adjust and to understand what kind of loads are being sensed and of course, When we talk about load changes in turbines, it’s every component is completely different, right? The loads in the blades and fatigue loads over time and what can be and can’t be exerted on them. To, to look, like a 20 year old blade is a lot different than a one year old blade and a 20 year old piece of drivetrain is a lot different than a 20, a one year old piece of drivetrain. So adjusting those load limits by calculation and understanding as the turbine ages and operations change. It’s something that should actually absolutely be done. So I’m, I’m with Phil. I think this is a good one. Allen Hall: Our next idea is from G. E. in Spain. And G. E. is noted for their two piece blades. Well, the, the issue with the two piece blade is you want to replace the tip, you have to physically bend it. Get a crane up there and remove the tip. Well, this patent allows the blade tip to be lifted and just, and drop with a cable running through the center of the blade. So it’s sort of a unique way of dropping in a damaged blade tip and putting a new blade tip on. It has a sort of a coupling mechanism to carry the loads. But Phil, this is a really slick idea. If you’re going to do a two piece blade, the reason you do that, so you can swap out the tip. You need a way to do without involving a crane. Philip Totaro: Yeah, and, and look, single blade swap outs, an idea that’s been around for like 12 or 13 years or so and has been commercially tested and is commercially used by a few service companies and, and even EPC contractors when they’re doing an initial blade install, they, if they don’t happen to have a crane, they might be able to do the installation of a third blade by using uh, either a turbine based crane or a ground based crane with a winch system that allows you to hook up this harness that’ll, that’ll suck the blade up into the onto the hub. Now, this invention is for swapping out the tip, which is kind of an interesting use case on a GE Cypress blade, wherein if they happen to have either, let’s say, lightning damage, or some other kind of tip related issue they can literally debolt the I don’t know that they successfully explained how that happens, by the way. How you get down into the blade deep enough to be able to, unbind the, the joint in there to be able to, to get the tip off. But once you’ve, once you’ve unbinded Unbolted this this tip, doing a quote unquote, single blade swap out with just the tip portion is is certainly a unique approach. So, assuming that they can resolve some of these other operational challenges and like how you actually, implement this and from a practical standpoint, I think this is, this is interesting. But like we’ve talked about on, Power Up and the Uptime Winnergy podcast before, not everybody’s using a two piece blade and not everybody’s going to use a two piece blade. So whether or not this patented innovation gets used, universally, we’ll, we’ll have to see. Joel Saxum: I like anything that can be done without a crane in the wind industry. Without a traditional crane, right? You have the lift draw, the lift works, those guys doing certain things, but something that can be done maintenance wise that traditionally would have taken a crane that you can’t, or that you don’t have to? Fantastic idea, right? The two piece blades are built for a couple reasons. The main one being logistics and transportation. But the second one is, is that idea that Phil has talked, that talked a little bit about, about the idea behind operations and maintenance of, hey, tip’s got bad leading edge erosion or a bad lightning damage or something, boom, just swap the tip out. It makes sense from a practical standpoint, however, have we seen it actually happen in the field? Not yet, to my knowledge if anybody has done these things. Please get a hold of us so we can learn a little bit more about it. But yeah, there’s some challenges there because you’re gonna have to probably either use a lift truck to get people up to the joint to remove the they put a seal around it and some other things and, but once, once you get past that, the ability to swap that tip out without a crane is, could be, could be game changing for these Allen Hall: two piece plates. Our last idea is a solar powered wind turbine tower, and it’s from Heliotech over in Germany. And the patent idea goes like this. I have this long tower that sits pretty high above the ground. If I can cover that in flexible solar panels, I can generate some electricity. That can go along with the wind power being generated. So the, the, really the concept is focused on the flexible design. So it doesn’t have a lot of air resistance and cause the tower to rock around this fill though, doesn’t seem like you’d make enough power to be worth it. Philip Totaro: Well, okay. Let’s start by giving some context to this. I will agree with that statement, but I’ll come back to why in a minute. So, Heliotech is a company that makes these kind of flexible roll up, almost like you’re rolling up or rolling out a piece of carpet these, these kind of solar panels that are really designed for industrial purposes Specifically on the top of, your warehouse building or other industrial spaces. They’re meant to serve as a an alternative to a rack mount system a rooftop rack mount system. Whereby you can just physically attach these solar panels, these flexible solar panels to whatever roof surface you want. surface you happen to have. Now, that said, why do I not think this is a great idea for wind turbine tower? Well, first of all, they are literally the ninth company to propose this type of invention, this generic type of invention of mounting, some kind of solar panel, flexible or otherwise, on Either the tower, the nacelle, or there have been patents by people talking about literally co covering the blades with solar panels. Sounds like a good idea but the other issue with doing this is that you don’t really You know, it’s, it’s an efficiency thing, right? We, the reason we don’t put a lot of wind turbines in the state of Florida is because it’s not windy enough. And the reason that you wouldn’t necessarily put these solar panels all over the, the tower is, like Alan mentioned, you’re not really getting enough power out of it. The only thing you’d be able to do with this is maybe power your, your pumps, your motors and your fans cooling fans for, some of your electrical systems. It wouldn’t allow you to black start the turbine by just using the solar power and it wouldn’t necessarily provide you with unless you had some kind of storage system, it wouldn’t necessarily provide you with like backup pitch system power during a Volvo to drive through or something like that. So I, I just, I, it’s, it’s one of those things like, and, and look, companies like Asiona have done like actual experiments out in Spain with this, not the heliotech system, but they, they had their own partner company come out and put wrap a tower and solar panels. And it’s just not something we see every day because it’s just not, it’s not LCOE efficient, it’s not cost efficient, and it’s not technically efficient in terms of the capacity factor you get out of, out of these panels, so it’s, it sounds like a great idea, but I think the technology and the concept itself, not worth it. And I think getting a patent on this at this point, when again, nine other companies before this have, have already gotten a patent or an application filed. This, this has been proposed. It’s been done. It’s not great. I’d, I’d say let’s move on. Joel Saxum: I’d like to start by saying I think that every surface that we have available in areas that it makes sense should have solar panels on them. I’m down here in Texas and all of the parking garages at every one of these airports that have massive, massive coverings on them to keep the sun off your vehicles that cover acres should have solar panels on them. We have a lot of buildings, I’m in Texas again. There’s no rooftop solar here, and I believe that, why not? Why wouldn’t we have rooftop solar? So let’s do that. However, it has to be balanced economically, like Phil said. Operations and maintenance wise, like, it’s a pain in the butt to maintain stuff on a tower like this. If you have them, 80 meters up. Otherwise, the other side of the coin is, is solar panels lose efficiency when they’re hot. And if you’re putting these on a tower, you’re putting them on a steel tower, and if they’re getting sunlight on the steel tower, that steel tower is hot, you’re gonna lose efficiency in the panels anyways. So while this may not be the best use of technology like these flexible solar panels, I do want to say I believe we should put putting solar panels everywhere else that we can.