Sound Judgment

Listeners to Sound Judgment know I’m on a quest to unpack how today’s best hosts make their magic — and to define the universal skills and qualities of “hostiness.” What makes some hosts stars, while we don’t remember the rest? Today, we name and explore the first of these universal skills: #1: Sparkling, Attention-Grabbing IntrosCompelling hosts know how to grab and hold listeners' attention from the very first seconds of an episode. A great intro, also called a "lede," relies on the elements of: — Surprise— Curiosity— Scene setting— For interview and conversation shows, stating your purposeWe explore how three hosts, of two narrative podcasts and one interview show, use these elements in dramatically different ways to create remarkably effective ledes.(Please note: This episode includes the sounds of guns and a brief discussion of some tough topics, including suicide, during my exploration of Stephanie Wittels Wachs’ lede into the Last Day episode, “A Love Story.” The third season of Last Day is about guns. If you’re a host or producer thinking about the tenth anniversary of the Sandy Hook school shooting yesterday, and how to report movingly and sensitively about guns, Last Day is a model of how to do this beautifully and ethically.)  The episode(s) discussed on today’s Sound Judgment:Last Day, A Love Story, from Sound Judgment Ep. 1, “Emotional Bravery on Last Day with Stephanie Wittels Wachs”Crime Show, Paging Dr. Barnes, from Sound Judgment Ep. 4, “Cinematic Storytelling with Crime Show’s Emma Courtland.” What Should I Read Next, Ep 350: “Book mail keeps us together” and Ep 351 “Book Club Favorites: LIVE from Bookmarks!”, from Sound Judgment Ep. 7, “Secrets of Hosting Live and In-Studio with the Queen of Book Podcasts, Anne Bogel.” Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling.Here’s a unique, last-minute gift idea for you or the podcast host in your life!Make sure you’re doing everything you can to hook your listener with a personalized Hook-Your-Listener Audit. You or your podcaster will share an episode with us. We’ll examine the intro, sound quality, structure, relatability, credibility, pacing and more, all through the lens of hostiness. For the holidays, this 45-minute session, filled with action-packed takeaways specific to your show, is only $149. If your loved one (or you) has resolved to grow their show in 2023, this is a quick and painless way to transform your show – and more importantly, you as a host – from good to great! Get one of the last remaining sessions now through New Year’s Eve and schedule your audit for January or February. The price goes back up to $300 on January 1. What could be a more personal gift? Click here for this special holiday Hook-Your-Listener Audit. Help us grow! Rate and review the show or your favorite episode on Apple Podcasts Connect with Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.Help lift up indie podcast hosts and producers! Bring untold stories to our ears with this worthy causeWe’re delighted to support the Podcasting, Seriously Awards Fund. LWC Studios launched the fund to support independent BIPOC, Queer and Trans audio producers in submitting high-quality work to media/journalism awards and receiving production education and training. Diversifying audio storytelling enriches all of us. Please support the fund in whatever way works for you.  Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. For more information on our production and training services, visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Anne Bogel has spent the last six years of her life doing something uncanny: Every week on her hit show, What Should I Read Next, she excavates a guest’s reading life in fine detail. Then she recommends books that always seem to be the perfect choices for that guest, no matter who they are.It’s not just her unusual ability to pair book with reader that keeps her show at the top of the charts. It’s also the way Anne approaches hosting – as the art of practicing deep hospitality for her guests. That keeps her in listeners’ hearts, year after year. It also makes Anne in-demand as public speaker. As intimate as she is with her podcast guests, you might never guess how raucously fun she is in front of a live audience! If you dream of moving effortlessly between studio and stage, this episode is for you. Anne Bogel is an author, the creator of the blog Modern Mrs Darcy, and host of What Should I Read Next? podcast and Modern Mrs Darcy Book Club. Anne loves talking to readers about their favorite books, reading struggles, and of course what they should read next. Anne lives in Louisville, Kentucky, with her husband, four children, and a yellow lab named Daisy. Follow Anne on Instagram.What Should I Read Next episodes discussed on today's show: Ep 350: “Book mail keeps us together”Ep 351 “Book Club Favorites: LIVE from Bookmarks!”Anne Bogel's holiday gift book recommendations for your favorite hosts and producers: The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker (discussed at 38:54)Out on a Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio by Jessica Abel with forward by Ira Glass (39:29)I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai, due out in February 2023 (40:13)Scroll down for hosting takeaways from today's show. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect! Follow Elaine: Facebook | LinkedIn | InstagramSay thanks! ✉️ Email me at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socials Takeaways1. We may not think of it this way, but the word “host” comes from the word “hospitality.” Anne takes that literally – she and her team practice hospitality consciously. They do everything they can to make their guests feel welcome and at ease. That hospitality starts with the way they invite guests, to how they prepare them, to the ways in which Anne calms their nerves at the start of an interview. The result of such care shows in the relationships she builds with her guests – and, as a consequence, with devoted listeners. 2. Anne practices hospitality in the manner that Priya Parker describes in her book The Art of Gathering – and that means understanding and explaining the purpose of that gathering or interview at the very beginning. “It can feel silly at first to name your purpose,” she said. But it helps you and your guests immensely to say: "What is our purpose in being here today, in having this conversation? What do we hope you take away from this?" Don’t let these important guideposts remain unspoken. 3. You’re not the same host in a quiet studio as you are in front of a live audience. Or at least you shouldn’t be. Before you host an episode – or a live event – visualize how you want the audience to feel. As Anne says, the visual for a conversation with a single guest might be two people at a table leaning over their lattes. But the visual for a panel discussion in a room of hundreds of readers is big! As she put it, “Come on in. The water is warm! Big Momma’s shepherding! There’s room here for all of us, and we’re gonna have a ball.” They’re both positive kinds of energy, but they differ dramatically. 4. Hosting a great roundtable takes a different kind of expertise than hosting a conversation with a single person. It requires deft moderation, an ability to think like an orchestra conductor and sometimes a tightrope walker – along with the diplomacy to manage several egos. Anne plans ahead to give guests equal time and to ensure a lively flow of conversation. And she also thinks about how to inspire guests to tell stories that they haven’t told before – by artfully asking for specifics…like a memorable experience at a book club. And remember – sometimes that first story sets the tone for all the rest.  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling.Scroll down for takeaways you can use from today’s show.Pabel Martinez is a native New Yorker, storyteller, and former tech executive. Throughout his career, Pabel struggled balancing two jobs…tech employee and actor.  As an actor, he would focus on assimilation because he was trained to believe that many parts of his identity were unprofessional. Pabel would dedicate days out of the week to study “white popular American culture” and memorize scripts he would later use for work conversations. He knew that talking about Bad Bunny and shows like Insecure would not make him relatable. Instead, he would binge-watch seasons of Riverdale since it would help him build relationships with colleagues and senior leaders. The assimilation became overwhelming, and it was at the expense of his identity & mental health. As a result, Pabel's mission in life became redefining professionalism by empowering authenticity. In 2020, he launched his company, Plurawl, to bring this mission to life.Pabel's TakeawaysInterrupting is often helpful and we need to learn how to do it deftly. Interrupting is cultural – it’s governed by what we consider polite, which is different everywhere. My husband, from Ohio where everyone is awfully nice, used to be horrified by what I see as my enthusiasm, which means I interrupt far more often than he does. I grew up in Boston and, later, New York. The skill of interrupting may seem pretty small, inconsequential, even, but it’s not – it’s about being a host who can create a good flow to a conversation, and stay in control of it so you can serve your listeners.  Is there an injustice you see, one that isn’t being addressed? You can use a podcast to fill that need, both by having the courage to share your own difficult story, and by encouraging guests to share their untold stories on your show. Representation matters. We know this, but Pabel is showing it. Listeners tell Pabel that because of quien tu eres, they no longer feel alone. And that gives them strength to make changes they didn’t have the courage to do before.That response says a lot about the connection a host on a mission can create with their audience. Could you help your audience know they’re not alone?  While I believe there are universal qualities and skills to hostiness – I’m on that quest to uncover them – I also believe there is no single definition of a “great” or “best” host. Because, like my mother used to always say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, we can certainly know when a host is beloved. Not everyone will love you. But your ideal audience will, if: you understand who you’re talking to. Are you serving that person? Do you know what they need to hear, and are you willing to go there? Pabel admitted that it’s hard for him to share episodes like the one he did about his salary, and the one he did about quitting his job at TikTok – but that they were among the most popular of all of his episodes. So get to know your ideal listeners very well. Care for them. Let your work speak to them. And, depending on your goals, speak out FOR them.Who we are as a human has everything to with who we are on the mic. And what I realized is that who we are as human beings has everything to do with who we are on the mic. If we are courageous, it shows. If we know who our listeners are and love them, it shows. If we are ashamed of something in our lives and that holds us back from expressing our full selves as hosts, it shows. If we are making our podcast (or giving our speech or writing our story) solely to support our business and make money – purely for our own ends – it shows. It doesn’t matter if we’re actually sharing personal stories or not: listeners hear and respond to our character in our voices, regardless of the format.So Pabel’s question — ¿Quién Tú Eres? — applies to all of us.Before you turn on the mic, spend some time with his question.  Who are you? Share the show! Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us on our quest to uncover the universal skills and qualities of hostiness! Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.For more information…on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production and training company, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Laura Joyce Davis, Host/Executive Producer, Shelter in PlaceLaura Joyce Davis is the host and executive producer of Shelter in Place, which won the “Changing the World One Moment at a Time” award at the International Women’s Podcast Awards. She is a full-time lecturer and managing editor at Stanford University's Storytelling Project, the CEO and co-founder of Narrative Podcasts (an online course), and one of Podcast Magazine's Top 22 Influencers in Podcasting in 2022. Her work has been recognized with a PR News Social Impact Award, a Fulbright scholarship, and occasional praise from her three children.Her favorite project management tools: Butcher block paper, nice markers, post-its, white boards, and gel roller pens. Scroll down for takeaways you can use from today’s show. A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to producers whenever it’s possible to do so. The episode discussed on today’s Sound Judgment: March 2022, Season 3, Episode 25: Cloud Cuckoo LandSubscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Share the show! Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment and shower you with gratitude and a decent cup of coffee.For more information…on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production and training company, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.Takeaways from Laura Joyce Davis, host of Shelter in PlaceYou need a strong hook to entice listeners. And you might have heard that there’s an unwritten 30-second rule – that’s all the time you’ve got. But you can get away with a lot longer lead if you create suspense. How can you voice a script naturally, and avoid that awful “readerly” quality? Take a tip from Laura’s Broadway actor brother:  Stop focusing on the words in every sentence. Instead, focus on the whole thought you’re conveying.  At some point, you’ll need to grapple with how much of yourself to share with your listeners. This is a big part of finding your voice. There are huge payoffs to sharing parts of yourself…and this is a question that you may need to wrestle with over and over again.More takeaways coming soon! Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell   Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Emma CourtlandEmma Courtland is an award-winning podcast producer and oral historian. In 2020, she created Crime Show, an episodic documentary series "about people -- and sometimes crime." The show peaked at #2 on Spotify's podcast charts. Her work in audio has been recognized by the Podcast Academy (Nominee - Best Host, 2022), the Clue Awards (Nominee - Outstanding Episodic Series, 2022) and the National Council on Public History (Winner - Excellence in New Media).Emma holds a BA in English from UCLA and a MA in oral history from Columbia University.We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to producers whenever it’s possible to do so. The episode(s) discussed on today’s Sound Judgment: September 2021, Paging Dr. BarnesMarch 2021: 18 MinutesSenior producer: Mitch HansenProducers: Jade Abdul-Malik, Cat Schuknecht, Jerome CampbellEditor: Devon Taylor Sound: Daniel RamirezSubscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Share the show! Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.For more information on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production and training company, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah EdgellComing soon: Takeaways from Emma Courtland, host of Crime Show Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Scroll down for takeaways about co-hosting well from Sarah and BethAbout the guests: Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers host the popular podcast Pantsuit Politics, which was named one of 2021’s best shows by Apple Podcasts and has been featured in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Good Morning America 3, The Guardian, Elle Magazine, and Parents Magazine. They are also the authors of Now What? How to Move Forward When We’re Divided (About Basically Everything) (2022) and  I Think You’re Wrong (But I’m Listening): A Guide to Grace-Filled Political Conversation (2019), which was featured on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. Sarah and Beth met in college before going their separate ways for law school. Sarah pursued a career in politics as a congressional staffer and campaign aide and Beth practiced law before serving as a human resources executive. Sarah lives in Paducah, KY, with her spouse, Nicholas, and children Griffin, Amos, and Felix. Beth lives in Union, KY, with her spouse, Chad, and children Jane and Ellen. Sarah’s dog, Cookie, and Beth’s dog, Lucy, are beloved (and involuntary) contributors to their work.Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Help us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.For more information on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production and training company, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.Share Sound Judgment!Follow Elaine on LinkedInHow to be a great podcast co-host: Takeaways from Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers1. Respond from a place of humanity.     As co-hosts of a news and politics show, Sarah and Beth are driven by what’s happening in the world.      “A lot of the news media and a lot of the political podcasters are in that same reactive posture. We just try to take a very different approach. We try to react from a place of humanity, instead of a place of expertise; a place of lived experience, instead of a place of … ‘decided-upon’ perspective. We really just try to show up as our whole selves.” 2. Don’t try to be a brand. Be yourself.      “We are here to be Sarah and Beth. And so our honest reactions after the [2016] election, I hope are the kinds of honest reflections that you get anytime you listen to our show.”3. Take your listeners on your journey, no matter where it takes you.      Accepting and being transparent about her own evolution was particularly important for Beth. In 2015, when they launched Pantsuit Politics, their premise was that although they came from opposite sides of the political spectrum — Beth was a Republican, Sarah a Democrat — they could hold nuanced, “grace-filled conversations.” That changed after the 2016 election, Beth says — a change that easily could have threatened the show.     “Trump was the beginning of the end for me as anything that someone in 2022 would identify as conservative,” Beth says. “And I've tried to be really honest with our audience about that. We didn’t get stuck in a brand.” Instead, the podcast evolved as they evolved.      “What we're doing is changing all the time,” Sarah says. “That's what’s so life-giving about it. That's why we like to do it. That's why I think our audience is so invested. The work at Pantsuit Politics — it's an invitation to just take a journey with us.”4. Their secret to producing Pantsuit Politics for more than seven years     “We know that we can continue to do this at the rate that we do because it's always met a need for us. And it continues to meet the need… We really wanted to sit down and have this conversation that we weren't hearing somewhere else.... And when it stops feeling like that, we check in with each other and say, 'Do we need to take a break? Do we need to shift the topics?' If we started down a path, we [may] need to ditch that path because we want to come back to meeting this need that we have.     “And so that's our guiding light: If it doesn't feel helpful to us as individuals, it’s not going to be good content for the audience. And we need to take a step back.” — Beth5. Differences are essential for a good co-hosting partnership. Lean in.     It’s not just OK to look at the world through different lenses. It’s a fundamental reason to have a co-host in the first place.       “Our general thesis from the beginning of the show [has been that] personality is a huge part of politics. And our personalities are different… you hear that a lot in the show. And I think our strength is that we allow both things to be true. We allow both perspectives to live and thrive and trust that the audience will gain something from each of them, because we absolutely gain something from each of them.” — Sarah     How are you similar to and different from your co-host? When you’re different, like Sarah and Beth, the sum of your parts is greater than the whole. As Beth says, “I can't imagine doing this with someone who was just like me, or really with anyone else. I think it is the contrast that is interesting to listen to.”6. Who are you? What do you value? Who do you want to be to your listeners?      Beth can sound professorial — wise and a bit distant. Sarah is more emotional and expressive. As she says, “It’s not unusual for me to cry on the show.” These two personalities, both naturally who they are, complement each other like interlocking puzzle pieces.7. Resist the temptation to sacrifice deep thinking for speed.      Being first with a scoop may feel crucial. But often the more valuable content is not that which we can publish immediately. Thoughtfully unpacking the news, a cultural phenomenon, or a feeling, is often far more valuable to listeners.     “Honestly, just can we slow down for a second? Not compete for the hottest take or the correct take? For the one-liner that's quotable… but instead really figure out what are we talking about? Why is [that headline] so captivating to everybody? What is it touching that we aren’t naming, [the real reason] that makes us fascinated by it?” — Beth8. When you know your listeners well, you can meet their needs.“Sometimes, we have a really in-depth look at an issue planned. And we realize our audience is worn out right now. We're just hearing it in emails, they're tired. They need something… people need some delight. How can we serve up some delight right now? Maybe we need it too.” — Beth9. A simple way to understand what your audience wants: real-life avatars     “We have an amazing community manager, Maggie Penton, who just reads the room. She’s really good at [knowing] this is where people are at right now; this is what we're struggling with. She's also just an excellent listener avatar. She’s been listening to our show for a really long time.” — Sarah10. Listen to your audience — and your heart     “We're not going to produce a show that we feel everyone's consumed with if we don't want to talk about it ourselves.” — Sarah11. How to avoid perfectionism     “I just tell myself, we're gonna make another one. We can get that wrong. There are two a week, you know, we will have another chance if we feel like we missed the mark.” – Sarah12. Set yourself apart from the competition     “We’re constantly pushing ourselves to say, ‘what could we add?’ Because every conversation is so saturated. When we started Pantsuit Politics, there weren't a million…news and politics podcasts, it was a totally different time…. Quiet quitting is a good example. When we discussed having this as a topic, [we asked] what could we possibly say about this that hasn't been said? We are challenging ourselves all the time to ask, what's new? Or what could we say differently? Or how are we thinking about this that we haven't heard somewhere else or read somewhere else?” — Beth13. The value of premium channels goes far beyond revenue     Rather than reporting on and analyzing every headline, Sarah and Beth confine themselves to a few well-chosen topics each week. The freedom they feel to be selective comes in part from having “escape valves” — premium feeds that satisfy the needs of different listeners.      “In the beginning, we felt like we had to…report on every news story. We don't do that anymore. Because there's lots of new summary podcasts. We produce one every day, so if you’re into that, you can get it on our premium channel…. Our premium content that we produce has…freed us up to approach the show differently, because we know there's other places where if that's what the listener is looking for, they can find it.” — Sarah14. Emotional intimacy builds devoted communities.     “I didn’t understand how deeply people connect with a voice that they listen to. Sarah says, all the time, ‘You can't skim a podcast.’ People do connect, because you're in their ears and they are paying attention. And there's something really powerful about spending almost two hours a week with the two of us just in your headphones, as you're buzzing about doing other things — when we are a part of dog walks and laundry and dinner preparation and commutes.” — Beth15. Stop overthinking.     What Beth wishes she’d known about hosting when they started: “Understanding the entire premise of your show — that it is about the host. I am not trying to make something. I'm just being and letting people into the experience of me being. Developing that trust in myself is a journey that I'm still on…. If I could go back, I would say to myself, ‘Don't overthink this. Just trust that you can just be you and that's what people are here for.’” CreditsSound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

How to be a great host: John Barth’s takeaways1. What is “hostiness?” This is where John shines as both a talent recruiter and a content developer. As he says, he’s always looking for ‘the blue M&M” — “that special voice.” “It’s a combination of very different factors. There’s a likability in someone's voice or style. There's this innate sense that I’d really like to spend more time with them. There’s also this range of curiosity and joy and versatility that comes across when you encounter hostiness. But it’s that compelling nature, that if you saw them live on stage, you’d never want the show to end.” 2. Consistent sound matters, and improves with a good host-producer partnership.“Anybody who uses their voice professionally, you want to get to a consistent sound. If a good host can hear what makes them sound good in front of an audience, you want to implant that sound in their head. [As a host], after a while, you know your own range — and even on an off day, you can pull that out.” John’s job as an executive producer? “Helping talent be the very best talent they could be behind a mic.”3. For a more natural and dynamic sound, talk about your passions before taping.  John coached a reporter who’d never before had voice coaching. “First, I let her talk about the story, about her passions. When people talk about their passions, they automatically get a bigger range. You hear more color in their voice. So then, when it came to reading a script, we would do it again and again. And I would listen for moments of passion…and hold up the mirror. After a while, you hear the joy come out.” And then, John says, they would rehearse that script again and again, going over the most difficult and most promising parts. Often, he would direct her, saying, “Take me back to that scene that you're describing and feel that in the sentence.” When they finished, she couldn’t believe how great she sounded. “Sometimes, we just don't know what our own voice can do. And you need a coach, another pair of ears to say, ‘Ooh, that really did work.’”4. “We’re not enthralled by copies. We’re enthralled by originals.” “The goal is certainly to read the script, but your voice and style is loose enough that you can really bring some expression of life to it. There's nothing worse than sounding like Walter Cronkite with the forced intonation and forced pattern. That doesn't mean credibility.”5. A host defines the brand of the show. “When you're hiring a host, the host really does imprint their own sound, voice, and style on the show. So it actually begins to define the brand that you're creating. [On Marketplace] it took me a while to get to a host who embodied the sound that I heard from the show… There was an editorial vision, but there was also a sound vision. And it needed to be distinctive. I always imagined how the audience was listening to the show and the kind of listener I wanted to attract. So that had to be a certain sound.”6. How to prep before taping. “Our goal (at Marketplace)  was to laugh uproariously before we went into the studio to do the live show. So we would tell a funny joke or dirty joke; we would be really snarky in his (David Brancaccio’s) office. My job was to get [David Brancaccio], as a host, not only loosened up, but comfortable with a real range of emotion. So by the time that mic went on, he could really bring his full self to whatever he had to do in those 30 minutes. I mean, it was so much fun.”7. What producers do “It's sort of like directing theater and being a writer and being a cat herder. And, you know, everything all at once. People have no idea what producers really do.” (Elaine) 8. Choose to learn storytelling from the very best — The MothWhen John first saw The Moth on stage, he went back to his boss at PRX, Jake Shapiro, and said, “We have just found our first hit.” He then became a key member of the team that developed The Moth Radio Hour. “The Moth knows probably more about hostiness than anyone. So if you think that storytelling is just getting somebody on a stage to tell their story into a mic, you don't appreciate what The Moth does to get to The Moth sound. Their  process is so respectful of finding not only the true story of the storyteller, but the voice of the storyteller and the hostiness of the storyteller.” 9. Just because we are accustomed to a conventional broadcast voice does not mean it remains relevant today. Experiment. [About the search for a host of Reveal and the choice to hire Al Letson]“What we needed for that show was a voice and a host who would help us redefine what investigative reporting would sound like. And that's why Al  was a natural choice for that job.”10. Bring your identity to your story, and be transparent about it. In Mississippi Goddamn, Al Letson and producer Jonathan Jones (J.J.), tell the listener where they were born, what their races are (Black and white) and where they have lived. “Most journalists are trained to remove themselves from the story,” John says. ‘But that’s a false construct; you never really do.” Of course, he says, there are objective facts. “[And] it’s your eyes, your ears, your notes… And then it's also layered by all the experiences that help you see what you see or what you notice or what you miss…It's a false neutrality [to remove oneself from the story], because we're all individuals…It's rare to hear this acknowledged so plainly, but it really does need to happen that way, especially in a story like this.”More about John BarthToday, John Barth runs his own firm, Creative Media LLC. He does talent recruitment and content development for clients in public media, news and social impact. He also coaches people in their media careers. For 16 years, John was the Chief Content Officer of PRX, named by Fast Company magazine as one of the Top 10 Most Innovative media companies. He led the design and launch of Reveal with The Center for Investigative Reporting and The Moth Radio Hour, both Peabody Award winners. He was the founding producer of Marketplace and worked at Audible as director of original content.A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to producers when it’s possible to do so.  The episodes and shows discussed on today’s Sound Judgment:Reveal: Mississippi Goddamn,Host: Al LetsonExecutive Producers: Kevin SullivanSeries producer: Michael I SchillerProducers: Al Letson and Jonathan JonesProduction manager: Amy MostafaBunga BungaNetwork: WonderyHost: Whitney CummingsThe episode: TrailerThe DailyNetwork: New York TimesHost: Sabrina TaverniseThe episode: Utah’s ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’MarketplaceThe Moth Radio Hour Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Share the show! Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.For more information…on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production and training company, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Stephanie Wittels Wachs is a longtime actor, voice-over artist, theater teacher, author and the co-founder, with Jessica Cordova Cramer, of Lemonada Media. Last Day is only one of Lemonada’s 30-plus podcasts and growing. Wittels Wachs and Cordova Cramer founded Lemonada three years ago. Its tag line matches Stephanie’s personality: Humanity. Unfiltered. A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers. We will strive to give credit to producers – the true behind-the-scenes talent – whenever it’s possible to do so. The episode: A Love StoryExecutive Producers: Jessica Cordova Cramer and Stephanie Wittels WachsSupervising Producer: Jackie DanzigerProducers: Kagan Zema and Giulia HjortAssociate Producers: Hannah Boomershine and Erianna Jiles Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our once- or twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Share the show! Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.For more information on Sound Judgment and Podcast Allies, our production training and studio, visit us at www.podcastallies.com.How to be a great host: Stephanie’s takeawaysBe curious. Frame your story around a central question.“I'm a central question psychopath… I'm always saying, okay, but what's the question? What are we trying to figure out? What's the point? That's really critical to any storytelling, but I think it [emerges] over time. And it's so baked into the process of revision and collaboration. And you know when you’ve found it… If the episode isn't working, it's typically because you haven't nailed down what that central question is.”To be vulnerable on tape, you need at least one partner who encourages vulnerability. Stephanie relies on her team of skilled and sensitive producers.“I am used to collaborating very deeply and closely and trusting one another through that process. I don't know how I would do this with a team I didn't trust and feel safe with. The show is a real team sport.” To help a host be authentic in front of a mic, give them permission to have feelings.“Gloria Rivera [host of No One’s Coming to Save Us and a veteran news broadcaster] was doing tracking…using her broadcast voice. And I was like, “Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, that microphone hates that. Let's shake that off. We're gonna play this tape. Can you just listen to this woman talking about how hard it is for her to juggle a newborn with a toddler with her own job? And I know you've experienced some of that yourself. And can you just close your eyes and then respond to it, just however you feel. And Gloria…she's so full of heart and soul and vulnerability herself. Once she had that permission, she started crying. And she started talking about her own experience having to go to war zones with little kids at home, and how painful that was for her to have to balance. And we kept that as the first moment of the first episode.”Have fun making the show. It shows. “We have fun making the show, and that feels important, because it’s real dark.” (Elaine’s note: If you’re not having fun, it might be time to reevaluate how you’re creating it, what you’re creating, and whether to continue.) Great storytelling is built on truth, contrast, and unexpected turns — or why Stephanie led an episode about suicide with a scene of her team whooping it up at a shooting range. “I had never understood how hunting could bring somebody joy until I shot a gun that morning. I had a ton of fun. Seven hours later, we were in a living room talking to a family who lost their son. Because he took his life with a hunting rifle. I didn't know how else to tell that story honestly… And I always [pleading with my team] ‘show not tell, show not tell!’ And the way that we showed it was to have fun shooting the guns. And then let's see the pain that this causes. You have to have both of those to understand the issue.” To make a gripping narrative podcast, use scenes, as often as possible (but only good ones).“This is the theater part, right? It's about character and it's about humanity and that's the stuff we try to capture, right? What are the human things about you? And what are the human things about me? And then when we put those things in a room together, human things happen. And that's interesting.”Make choices about the quantity of your narration on a case-by-case basis. “We typically have a lot of tracking in these episodes. And we made a very conscious choice with this one to keep a lot of the conversation intact. They were so honest, and we had this really amazing moment together.  And let's just try to keep a lot of that together. And take me as narrator out as much as we could…A lot of our episodes are seven voices…really woven together and patchworked.”  Find a champion. How do you find people willing to share deeply personal stories? You need what Stephanie calls a “credible messenger,” someone trusted in a community, to show you the ropes and introduce you to people. “We had a lot of trouble tracking down people to talk to us in Montana. To be honest, it took many, many months. We started with this guy named Carl…who heads up mental health for the Department of Health and Human Services in Montana… In our very first call…Carl said you're gonna have to fix your poker face before you come into Montana or no one's going to talk to you. And we kept that in. We wanted to show everyone there's barrier to entry. And if we came in with [the stance that] you shouldn't have guns, we would not get anywhere. So he culturally put us through the wringer. Once he could see that we were down to not come in and tell everyone the way that they should live their lives, he opened the gate, and connected us to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention in Montana.”Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell    Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

The beautiful voices included in this trailer are: John BarthFormer chief content officer, PRXCurrent principal, Creative Media  LLCStephanie Wittels WachsHost, Last DayCo-Founder and Chief Creative OfficerLemonada MediaThe episode Stephanie mentions is A Love Story from Last Day, Season 2Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the NewsletterRead it first here. Who am I  go behind the scenes to help explain the craft of hosting? Read my bio here.    Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson