Sound Judgment

The episode discussed on today's Sound Judgment is Weight for It: Episode 2, Shame Spiral. It’s produced by ohitsbigron Studios and distributed by Radiotopia. Ronald Young Jr. is a critically acclaimed audio producer, host, and storyteller, based in Alexandria, Va. He is an avid pop-culture enthusiast and the host of the television and film review podcast Leaving the Theater.  He is also a regular contributor to NPR’s Pop Culture Happy Hour as a guest panelist. He has hosted shows such as Pushkin’s Solvable and HBO Docs Club, from Pineapple Street Studios.  Selected as Vulture Magazine podcaster to watch, 2023 Ronald is currently developing new series, both scripted and narrative, that seek to unpack the human experience. His newest show, Weight For It, tells the vulnerable stories of fat folks and folks everywhere who think about their weight constantly.Weight for It: CreditsHost/Producer: Ronald Young, Jr. Story Editor: Sarah DealySound Design/Mixing: John DeloreTheme music is The Talk, composed by Jey ReddFollow Ronald Young, Jr.:www.ohitsbigron.comInstagram and Facebook: ohitsbigronLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronaldyoungjr/Twitter/X: ohitsbigronFollow the hashtags #ohitsbigron and #ohitsbigronstudiosIf you liked my conversation with Ronald Young, Jr., you’ll love: Sound Judgment Season 1/Episode 2: The Host Defines the Brand with John BarthSound Judgment Season 3/Episode 1: Classy’s Jonathan Menjivar: The Fine, Awkward Art of the Personal Audio DocumentarySound Judgment Season 2/Episode 9: Best of: Emotional Bravery with Last Day’s Stephanie Wittels WachsWe need your support! Please give Sound Judgment a five-star rating and a review. Visit our website to easily give us a 5-star rating and a review that’ll go to Apple or Spotify instantly. We’re grateful. The Sound Judgment team is: Host & Producer: Elaine Appleton GrantProduction Assistant: Audrey NelsonAudio engineer/sound designer: Kevin KlinePodcast manager: Tina BassirCover art by Sarah EdgellSound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLCContact UsTo contact us with questions, collaborations, media interviews, speaking engagements, or sponsorships, write to us at allies@podcastallies.com. We encourage your voice memos! Click the microphone icon at soundjudgmentpodcast.com. To follow Elaine Appleton Grant and the show: Subscribe to the Sound Judgment newsletter, about creative choices in audio storytellingSound Judgment websiteElaine's LinkedInElaine's FacebookSound Judgment Instagramhttp://podcastallies.com  Podcast Allies is a boutique production and consulting company making magical podcasts for NGOs and nonprofits, higher ed, and media organizations. Ronald Young, Jr’s takeawaysThese are the takeaways from the end of the episode. For more takeaways from all of our guests, subscribe to the Sound Judgment newsletter and visit our blog. Learn to draw upon rhythm and music to improve your delivery on the mic. Ronald grew up with the musicality of the storytelling and the singing he heard in church, and that turned him into a storyteller who is enchanting to listen to. But we can all do this by feeling the rhythm and cadence of language: Where are the beats? Where are the breaths? It’s not just storyboarding that makes great stories; it’s how we deliver our stories. Don’t censor yourself. At the beginning of the scripting process, Ronald’s story editor, Sarah Deeley, had him write down all the ideas he had for each episode. Only then did they narrow those ideas down into a structured narrative. Build stories in layers. Think about context: what does the listener need to know, right now, to understand this episode? To tell a story about his college girlfriend, Ronald had to first explain some stuff about his childhood. What context do you need to offer to make your story land? Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Anna Sale, creator and host of Death, Sex & Money, discusses her approach to creating intimate conversations. Topics include creating safety and dignity, leaving room for the listener, thoughtful choices in journalism, ethics of interviewing, and balancing privacy and openness.

Jonathan Menjivar, senior producer at Pineapple Street Studios and creator of Classy, discusses the power of personal audio documentaries and the challenges of presenting class issues with joy. They also delve into topics such as authenticity on the mic, dreams and limited options, and finding the right character for a documentary.

Follow Sound Judgment on your favorite podcast app. For more information on the show and to browse the back catalog, visit our website: www.soundjudgmentpodcast.com.Leave a voicemail for us! Just click on the microphone icon on our website. Sign up for our twice-monthly Sound Judgment newsletter on the art and craft of audio storytelling. Follow Elaine Appleton Grant on LinkedIn. Email us! allies@podcastallies.com. Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. We make beautifully crafted shows for social impact and higher ed organizations, NGOs, the media — and ourselves. Work with us.  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

The hosts of Famous & Gravy discuss the uplifting effect of their podcast, the difficulty of categorizing the show, and the deeper philosophical implications of exploring the lives of dead celebrities. They delve into the achievements of a Tony-nominated stage actress, the different categories used to analyze a celebrity's life, and the significance of the first line in capturing listener interest. They also reflect on a spontaneous moment where they pitch to St. Peter, contemplating redemption and acknowledging everyone's contributions.

[Scroll down for takeaways you can use from today’s show.]Win prizes! Tell us your favorite Sound Judgment episodeDeadline: 6.30.23This Sound Judgment season is quickly coming to an end. Our season finale airs Thursday, June 29. We go behind the scenes with the hilarious hosts of Famous & Gravy, the podcast that asks, “Would you like to have had this dead celebrity’s life?” To celebrate, we need your help! Please tell us your favorite and/or most useful Sound Judgment episode and why. In return, we’re selecting a winner, at random, to receive merch from their favorite podcaster. If that podcaster doesn’t offer merch, you’ll receive NEW Sound Judgment merch!To enter, respond to this quick questionnaire   by Friday, June 30, 2023, midnight EST. Would you like Sound Judgment listeners to hear your voice on our podcast? Record a brief voice memo and email it to us at allies@podcastallies.com by Friday, June 30. If selected, we’ll run your voice memo on a future episode of Sound Judgment. (Be sure to include your name, the name of your podcast or business, your favorite or most useful Sound Judgment episode, and why you chose it.) Thank you. We love our listeners!... Julia Barton is the executive editor of Pushkin Industries, following a long career in public radio. She helped develop Revisionist History and Against the Rules, among other chart-topping shows. She’s the editor of Malcolm Gladwell’s audiobook The Bomber Mafia, Michael Specter’s Fauci, and Michael Lewis’s unabridged Liar’s Poker and companion podcast. Her 2019 series for PRX’s Radiotopia, Spacebridge, was called “dazzling” by The New Yorker.A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to producers whenever it’s possible to do so.  Discussed on this Sound Judgment episode: The Best Audio Storytelling: 2022Foreword by David SedarisGet 15% off The Best Audio Storytelling: 2022 with the promo code BestAudioSJ15 here.The anthology features many different podcasts. We examined: "I Can Do Anything" by Jason Reynolds, from his Radiotopia podcast, My Mother Made Me"Armand's Garden" by Erica Heilman, from her podcast, Rumble Strip"The Tunnel,"  featuring reporter Andrea Bernstein, from Pineapple St. Studios/Wondery's Will Be Wild  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Celeste Headlee, an award-winning journalist and conversation expert, shares her insights on effective communication. She discusses her fascinating journey from reporter to podcast host, highlighting the importance of empathy in conversations. The dialogue touches on the initiative 'Hear Me Out' aimed at respectful discussions around contentious topics like secession. Headlee also emphasizes the art of preparation and the ethics behind guest selection, encouraging a nuanced understanding of diverse viewpoints for richer dialogues.

About Sam MullinsSam Mullins is a writer, comedian and journalist based in Toronto, and is the host of the critically acclaimed podcast series “Chameleon: Wild Boys” and “Chameleon: Dr Dante” from Campside Media and Sony Music. For the past decade, he's been writing comedy for TV + radio, and performing his award-winning solo shows all over North America. His stories have been featured on This American Life, The Moth, and CBC's The Doc Project.The episode discussed on today’s Sound Judgment:Chameleon: Wild Boys  Episode 1. ArrivalWe believe that no podcast host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, editors, and engineers -- the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to every podcast team whenever it’s possible to do so. Wild Boys Credits: Host: Sam Mullins; Producer: Abukar Adan; Senior Producer: Ashleyanne Krigbaum; Executive Producer: Matt Shaer; Editor: Karen Duffin; Sound Design and Mixing: Hannis Brown and Garrett TiedemannAt the end of every episode, I give you a few of the many takeaways from these conversations. Here are today’s:  As storytellers, we already know that curiosity is critical. But are you as curious as you can be? When Sam first started looking into this old story, he discovered that reporters had only skimmed the surface. Sam was driven by a need to understand how this situation could have happened. He began asking questions like what was their childhood like? What would drive two young men to do something like this?Trust your instincts. If you think there’s more to a story than meets the eye, you’re probably right. Sam trusted his when he said, “There has to be much more here than they were just jerks messing with us.” And there was.Working with a good editor is a godsend -  it can mean the difference between a memorable story or series and one that falls flat. But, as Sam says, the relationship with an editor is a scary one, because it’s so intimate. You have to earn each other’s trust and be completely honest with each other.The creative work you do without recognition or outward signs of success is never wasted. I’m a sucker for an overnight success story – which is what Sam’s story initially sounded like. But I’m also a sucker for most people’s real overnight success stories – which is that good fortune isn’t sudden at all; it’s the outcome of years of building skills.Links mentioned in this episode:Sound Judgment Ep 14:  Bone Valley: How to Create a True Crime Podcast That Makes a Difference***Bring lessons on hosting and producing into your inbox! Did you know Sound Judgment is also a free newsletter? Every two weeks, get storytelling, hosting, and journalism strategies taken straight from the on-the-ground experiences of today’s best audio makers, no matter the genre. Newsletters feature examples for you to try in your studio; essays on the challenges and rewards of this craft; and news about fellow audio creatives making the kind of work we all aspire to. Click here to subscribe. ***Work with us!We make original podcasts for NGOs, purpose-driven brands, and universitiesWe also offer podcast strategy and consulting servicesOr contact us about our public media and individual training services for content creators and on-air talentVisit podcastallies.com or email us at allies@podcastallies.com for more information. *** Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

Mother's Day seems like it should be a Hallmark moment. But for many, reality is far different. Dana Black started her very personal podcast, I Swear on My Mother's Grave, for listeners suffering from complex mother loss — meaning not only people who have lost their mothers to death, but also, in life  by estrangement, illness, addiction, circumstance. Sensitivity warning: This conversation touches on alcoholism and addiction. Audio storytellers can learn design the tone, writing, and mood of a podcast to foster  intimacy with listeners. They can grapple with the defining the role of the podcast host. They will learn how to make guests, and listeners, feel seen, and to create a sense of belonging. We also discuss the power of scenes to convey memory, character, relationship and feelings. At the end of every episode, I give you a few of the many takeaways from these conversations. Here are today’s:  We say podcasts are an intimate medium. But that’s really not the case. What’s true is that podcasts have the capacity to feel intimate – but it takes a clear sound vision to make that happen.  Dana has it. She thinks carefully about how she wants her listeners to feel. “Come here come here come here,” she whispers. She talks to them directly, as if they’re right there. “Sit by the fire with me. Grab a cup of cocoa. Put on warm socks.” She wants them to feel they’re in on a secret and so she writes, voices, and sound designs with that goal in mind.  There’s no intimacy without trust. “The only way to gain the trust of someone I’ve never met,” Dana says, “I have to share myself, so that they will share themselves.”   There is so much power in scenes. A 45-second scene – in Dana’s case, about getting American girl dolls for Christmas – we get a distillation of who her mother was. Scenes done well are beautiful shortcuts to both facts and feelings – and inevitably have listeners conjuring up memories from their own lives.  One reason listeners are hooked on I Swear on My Mother’s Grave: At the end of every episode, Dana reflects on what that conversation meant to her, often in surprising ways. Listeners can’t wait to find out what she’ll say. Links mentioned in this episode:Mother's Grave Retreat, June 8-11, 2023I Swear on My Mother's GraveSound Judgment Ep 5: Finding Your Voice with Shelter in Place host Laura Joyce Davis***Bring lessons on hosting and producing into your inbox! Did you know Sound Judgment is also a free newsletter? Every two weeks, get storytelling, hosting, and journalism strategies taken straight from the on-the-ground experiences of today’s best audio makers, no matter the genre. Newsletters feature examples for you to try in your studio; essays on the challenges and rewards of this craft; and news about fellow audio creatives making the kind of work we all aspire to. Click here to subscribe. ***Follow Elaine on LinkedInHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!  Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.Work with us!We make original podcasts for NGOs, purpose-driven brands, and universitiesWe also offer podcast strategy and consulting servicesOr contact us about our public media and individual training services for content creators and on-air talentVisit podcastallies.com or email us at allies@podcastallies.com for more information. ***Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParrellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson

One day in the summer of 2022, Lemonada Media’s Stephanie Wittels Wachs received a surprise: an invitation to the White House to witness the signing of a gun safety bill. The invitation was sparked by the tremendous emotional impact of their hit show, Last Day, and especially of this episode, "A Love Story." If you strive to make audio documentaries on the toughest problems we face today, this behind-the-scenes conversation is your road map. Scroll down for several actionable takeaways from this episode. Stephanie Wittels Wachs is a longtime actor, voice-over artist, theater teacher, author and the co-founder, with Jessica Cordova Cramer, of Lemonada Media. Last Day is only one of Lemonada’s 30-plus podcasts, including chart-topping Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Lemonada Media's tag line matches Stephanie’s personality: Humanity. Unfiltered. A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers. We strive to give credit to producers – the true behind-the-scenes talent – whenever it’s possible to do so. The episode: A Love StoryExecutive Producers: Jessica Cordova Cramer and Stephanie Wittels WachsSupervising Producer: Jackie DanzigerProducers: Kagan Zema and Giulia HjortAssociate Producers: Hannah Boomershine and Erianna Jiles Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter.  Improve your craft! Read our free, twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in podcasting and radio. Join subscribers from PRX, AIR (Association for Independents in Radio), Hindenburg, PRPD (Public Radio Program Directors Association), Pacific Content, NPR affiliates, and more.  Help us grow: Please share this episode with a fellow creator. Stay in touch!Follow Elaine:FacebookLinkedInInstagramHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hosts!Who’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Share them with us! Write us: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment.Work with us! Looking for a production company that understands audiences and puts storytelling first? Visit us at www.podcastallies.com.How to tell sensitive, impactful stories: Stephanie’s takeawaysBe curious. Frame your story around a central question.“I'm a central question psychopath… I'm always saying, okay, but what's the question? What are we trying to figure out? What's the point? That's really critical to any storytelling, but I think it [emerges] over time. And it's so baked into the process of revision and collaboration. And you know when you’ve found it… If the episode isn't working, it's typically because you haven't nailed down what that central question is.” To be vulnerable on tape, you need at least one partner who encourages vulnerability. Stephanie relies on her team of skilled and sensitive producers.“I am used to collaborating very deeply and closely and trusting one another through that process. I don't know how I would do this with a team I didn't trust and feel safe with. The show is a real team sport.”  To help a host be authentic in front of a mic, give them permission to have feelings.“Gloria Rivera [host of No One’s Coming to Save Us and a veteran news broadcaster] was doing tracking…using her broadcast voice. And I was like, “Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, that microphone hates that. Let's shake that off. We're gonna play this tape. Can you just listen to this woman talking about how hard it is for her to juggle a newborn with a toddler with her own job? And I know you've experienced some of that yourself. And can you just close your eyes and then respond to it, just however you feel. And Gloria…she's so full of heart and soul and vulnerability herself. Once she had that permission, she started crying. And she started talking about her own experience having to go to war zones with little kids at home, and how painful that was for her to have to balance. And we kept that as the first moment of the first episode.” Have fun making the show. It shows. “We have fun making the show, and that feels important, because it’s real dark.” (Elaine’s note: If you’re not having fun, it might be time to reevaluate how you’re creating it, what you’re creating, and whether to continue.)  Great storytelling is built on truth, contrast, and unexpected turns — or why Stephanie led an episode about suicide with a scene of her team whooping it up at a shooting range. “I had never understood how hunting could bring somebody joy until I shot a gun that morning. I had a ton of fun. Seven hours later, we were in a living room talking to a family who lost their son. Because he took his life with a hunting rifle. I didn't know how else to tell that story honestly… And I always [pleading with my team] ‘show not tell, show not tell!’ And the way that we showed it was to have fun shooting the guns. And then let's see the pain that this causes. You have to have both of those to understand the issue.”  To make a gripping narrative podcast, use scenes, as often as possible (but only good ones).“This is the theater part, right? It's about character and it's about humanity and that's the stuff we try to capture, right? What are the human things about you? And what are the human things about me? And then when we put those things in a room together, human things happen. And that's interesting.” Make choices about the quantity of your narration on a case-by-case basis. “We typically have a lot of tracking in these episodes. And we made a very conscious choice with this one to keep a lot of the conversation intact. They were so honest, and we had this really amazing moment together.  And let's just try to keep a lot of that together. And take me as narrator out as much as we could…A lot of our episodes are seven voices…really woven together and patchworked.”   Find a champion. How do you find people willing to share deeply personal stories? You need what Stephanie calls a “credible messenger,” someone trusted in a community, to show you the ropes and introduce you to people. “We had a lot of trouble tracking down people to talk to us in Montana. To be honest, it took many, many months. We started with this guy named Carl…who heads up mental health for the Department of Health and Human Services in Montana… In our very first call…Carl said you're gonna have to fix your poker face before you come into Montana or no one's going to talk to you. And we kept that in. We wanted to show everyone there's barrier to entry. And if we came in with [the stance that] you shouldn't have guns, we would not get anywhere. So he culturally put us through the wringer. Once he could see that we were down to not come in and tell everyone the way that they should live their lives, he opened the gate, and connected us to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention in Montana.”Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantProject Manager: Tina BassirSound Designer: Andrew ParellaIllustrator: Sarah Edgell  Improve your storytelling Check out our popular workshops on interviewing, story editing, story structure, longform narrative, audience engagement, guesting, scriptwriting and more. Hire Elaine to speak at your conference or company. Subjects include: Effective Storytelling; Communicating for Leaders; Communicating about Change; Mastering the Art of the Interview; Success in Guesting, and much more. Discover our strategic communication services and coaching for thought leaders using storytelling tools to make the world a better place. Serving writers, podcasters, public speakers, and others in journalism & public media, climate change, health care, policy, and higher education. Visit us at www.podcastallies.com. Subscribe to Sound Judgment, the Newsletter, our twice-monthly newsletter about creative choices in audio storytelling. Connect:Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram✉️ Email Elaine at allies@podcastallies.com💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify 🗣️ Share the show by word of mouth and on your socialsHelp us find and celebrate today’s best hostsWho’s your Sound Judgment dream guest? Email me: allies@podcastallies.com. Because of you, that host may appear on Sound Judgment. Credits Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. Host: Elaine Appleton GrantPodcast Manager: Tina BassirProduction Manager: Andrew ParrellaAudio Engineer: Kevin KlineProduction Assistant: Audrey Nelson