The Pastor Theologians Podcast

In this final episode of the Preaching in the Pastor-Theologian series, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim are joined by Nicole Martin—pastor, preacher, and President/CEO of Christianity Today—for a wide-ranging conversation that brings the series’ central themes into sharp focus. Drawing on her own preaching journey and her book Nailing It, Martin reflects on preaching as a theological act of proclamation rather than performance, emphasizing surrender, simplicity, and a God-centered vision of the pulpit. Together, they explore the difference between preaching and teaching, the dangers of human-centered and culturally driven sermons, and the urgent need for theological formation shaped by the cross rather than triumphalism. The episode closes with a candid and pastoral word to preachers: true faithfulness lies not in success or spectacle, but in dying to self, trusting the sufficiency of God’s grace, and letting the Word of God do its work among a listening church—and a listening preacher.Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim welcome Todd Still, Delancey Dean and Professor of Christian Scriptures at Truett Seminary, for a rich conversation on theological education and the formation of preachers. Drawing on his own journey as a pastor, scholar, and dean, Still articulates a layered theological vision for preaching—rooted in the grand narrative of Scripture, shaped by evangelical and Baptist convictions, and deeply informed by Pauline theology. Together, the hosts and guest explore the vocation of the pastor theologian, the necessity of rigorous theological study for faithful proclamation, and the dangers of thin, topic-driven preaching detached from Scripture. The conversation also addresses the role seminaries play in forming preachers, the importance of uniting substance and style, and the need for preaching that aims at discipleship and Christlike formation. The episode concludes with an extended discussion of Truett Seminary’s PhD in Preaching, highlighting its commitment to forming scholar-pastors who can serve both the church and the academy for the long haul.Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with CPT Fellow Dan Brendsel about preaching in an age shaped by social media, attention economics, and artificial intelligence, exploring how technology subtly reinforces idolatry and the illusion of control. Brendsel argues that preaching should resist catering to diminished attention spans and instead cultivate prayerful attentiveness to God, framing preaching as God’s address to a listening community rather than a performance or content delivery optimized by technique or AI. Drawing on thinkers like Neil Postman, C. S. Lewis, and Oliver O’Donovan, he emphasizes improvisation, dependence on the Spirit, and the irreplaceable “occasion” of preaching—something no algorithm can anticipate. The conversation challenges pastors to examine how technology forms both preachers and congregations, calling them back to trust in the Word, embodied listening, and a posture of humble submission rather than technological mastery.Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with pastor, lawyer, and theologian K. Edward Copeland about how the gospel shapes the church’s engagement with today’s social and political tensions. Ed shares his unique journey—from overcoming a childhood speech impediment to decades of ministry and justice work—and offers a compelling vision of the gospel as God’s reconciling work for people, systems, and the whole cosmos. Drawing on the African American preaching tradition and the posture of exile, he explains how preaching can form Christians who discern cultural idols, process societal events theologically, and live faithfully amid fractured times. The result is a conversation full of wisdom, hope, and clarity for pastors and congregations navigating the complexities of modern life.Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this conversation, hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Gerald Hiestand—senior pastor of Calvary Memorial Church and co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians—about cultural intelligence and the work of preaching. Drawing from his ministry in the diverse and politically complex context of Oak Park, Illinois, Gerald describes the challenges and opportunities of engaging culture thoughtfully from the pulpit. He reflects on how pastors can understand the visible and invisible layers of culture, avoid the “ditches” on either side of cultural and political extremes, and use cultural “types” as pathways that point people toward the gospel. The discussion explores how preaching can form a theological vision of culture, how to love congregations well by understanding their varied backgrounds, and how pastors can navigate political tensions with a Christ-centered framework. Gerald also shares personal reflections on growing in pastoral confidence, learning to give clearer admonition with less scaffolding, and shepherding faithfully through turbulent cultural seasons.Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with Ahmi Lee about her vision for preaching as participation in God’s “grand drama.” Drawing from her global upbringing, pastoral experience, and theological training, Lee explains how preaching should bridge text-centered and reader-centered approaches by rooting sermons in the sweeping biblical narrative while remaining attentive to the lived experiences of listeners. She argues that preaching is ultimately a doxological act—first for God, then for the church, and still welcoming to those exploring faith. The hosts and Lee discuss the purpose of preaching, the role of the congregation as active listeners, the need for holistic and integrated biblical formation, and how preachers can engage diverse audiences. Lee closes by reflecting on how God is teaching her to trust Him more deeply amid a restless and chaotic world.Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Anglican priest and theologian Jonathan Bailes about the deep connection between preaching, discipleship, and the daily life of the church. Bailes reflects on the formative role of preaching within a liturgical tradition, emphasizing that the sermon is not commentary on current events but an encounter with the living voice of God that continually calls the church to remembrance amid spiritual forgetfulness. Drawing on Scripture, church history, and pastoral experience, he argues that discipleship is shaped less by novelty and more by steady saturation in God’s Word—through preaching, liturgy, and practices that help Christians hear, understand, and be formed by Scripture. The conversation ultimately invites pastors to reclaim confidence in the simple, repeated proclamation of the gospel as the heart of Christian formation.Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Paul Hoffman, senior pastor of Evangelical Friends Church in Newport, Rhode Island, about his ministry journey and upcoming transition to a faculty role at Samford University. The conversation centers on the book Preaching to a Divided Nation, coauthored by Hoffman and Kim, exploring how pastors can preach for reconciliation amid cultural, political, and racial divisions. Together, they discuss the theological foundations of unity, the “four isms” that divide the church, the importance of empathy and storytelling in pastoral ministry, and how preaching forms Christian identity. Hoffman also reflects on listening as a spiritual discipline, cultivating a “non-anxious presence,” and embracing the call to be ambassadors of reconciliation in a fractured world.Living Church - Awe and Presence

CPT fellow and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Grand Rapids, Jim Samra, joins Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim for episode two of Preaching and the Pastor Theologian. Together, they explore the connection between a pastor’s inner life and the ministry of preaching. Samra reflects on the church as a “pillar” and “conduit” between heaven and earth, emphasizing how a preacher’s holiness and attentiveness to God enable this connection. He shares practical rhythms of prayer, fasting, accountability, and sermon preparation rooted in dependence on the Holy Spirit. The conversation also delves into his understanding of prophecy, hearing God’s voice, and cultivating a congregation that listens for divine guidance. In closing, Samra discusses the importance of “cleaning up contaminated land” within the church—acknowledging past wounds and cultural sins so that the body of Christ can truly embody healing and holiness in its community and witness.Living Church - Awe and Presence

Episode One of “Preaching and the Pastor Theologian” Hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim introduce a ten-part exploration of the theology of preaching, launched through the CPT’s Compelling Preaching Initiative funded by the Lilly Endowment. Their guest, theologian Kimlyn Bender of Truett Seminary, discusses the theme “Preaching God, Listening Church,” emphasizing that God—not the preacher—is the primary speaker in the sermon and that Christ is present through the Spirit whenever the Word is proclaimed. Bender urges pastors to see themselves as “first listeners,” conduits through whom God addresses his people, and calls congregations to come expectantly as active, prayerful hearers. The conversation explores how preaching fits within God’s ongoing communication, the mystery of divine and human agency in proclamation, and the need for both humility and confidence in the pulpit. It concludes with Bender’s reminder that the church often “expects too little of God” and that true preaching rests on faith in God’s living presence and faithfulness to speak again.Living Church - Awe and Presence