Chain of Thought

What’s the first step to building an enterprise-grade AI tool? Malte Ubl, CTO of Vercel, joins us this week to share Vercel’s playbook for agents, explaining how agents are a new type of software for solving flexible tasks. He shares how Vercel's developer-first ecosystem, including tools like the AI SDK and AI Gateway, is designed to help teams move from a quick proof-of-concept to a trusted, production-ready application.Malte explores the practicalities of production AI, from the importance of eval-driven development to debugging chaotic agents with robust tracing. He offers a critical lesson on security, explaining why prompt injection requires a totally different solution - tool constraint - than traditional threats like SQL injection. This episode is a deep dive into the infrastructure and mindset, from sandboxes to specialized SLMs, required to build the next generation of AI tools.Follow the hostsFollow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Atin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Conor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vikram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Yash⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Today's Guest(s)Connect with Malte on LinkedInFollow Malte on X (formerly Twitter)Learn more about VercelCheck out Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agent Leaderboard

Aurimas Griciūnas, CEO of SwirlAI and AI bootcamp founder, discusses building sustainable AI businesses. He emphasizes that success now relies on speed, financial backing, and exceptional talent, rather than just trendy tools. Aurimas warns about the pitfalls of neglecting fundamental engineering in a crowded market. He also shares insights on the future of AI, foreshadowing a slowdown in LLM advancements and the rise of self-improving systems, making a case for the significance of robust data engineering and automated feedback loops.

Hamel Husain, an independent AI consultant with a rich history at Airbnb and GitHub, dives into the mindset shift required for successful AI engineering. He critiques the reliance on vanity metrics, arguing they lead to misconceptions about AI performance. Instead, he champions custom evaluations and error analysis as the backbone of robust AI products. The discussion also highlights the importance of domain expertise in refining AI metrics and encourages an experimentation mindset to foster continuous improvement and reliability in AI systems.

What if your next competitor is not a startup, but a solo builder on a side project shipping features faster than your entire team? For Claire Vo, that's not a hypothetical. As the founder of ChatPRD, formerly the Chief Product and Technology Officer at LaunchDarkly, and host of the How I AI podcast, she has a unique vantage point on the driving forces behind a new blueprint for success.She argues that AI accountability must be driven from the top by an "AI czar" and reveals how a culture of experimentation is the key to overcoming organizational hesitancy. Drawing from her experience as a solo founder, she warns that for incumbents, the cost of moving slowly is the biggest threat and details how AI can finally be used to tackle legacy codebases. The conversation closes with bold predictions on the rise of the "super IC" - who can achieve top-tier impact and salary without managing a team - and the death of product management. Follow the hostsFollow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Atin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Conor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vikram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Yash⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Today's Guest(s)Connect with Claire on LinkedInFollow Claire on X/TwitterClaire’s podcast How I AICheck out Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agent Leaderboard

How do you build an AI-native company to a $7M run rate in just six months?According to Marcel Santilli, Founder and CEO of GrowthX, the secret isn't chasing the next frontier model, it's mastering the "messy middle." Drawing on his deep experience at Scale AI and Deepgram, Marcel joins host Conor Bronsdon to share his framework for building durable, customer-obsessed businesses.Marcel argues that the most critical skills for the AI era aren't technical but philosophical: first-principles thinking and the art of delegation.Tune in to learn why GrowthX first focused on services to codify expert work, how AI can augment human talent instead of replacing it, and why speed and brand are a startup's greatest competitive advantages. This conversation offers a clear playbook for building a resilient company by prioritizing culture and relentless shipping.Follow the hostsFollow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Atin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Conor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vikram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Yash⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Today's Guest(s)Connect with Marcel on LinkedInFollow Marcel on X (formerly Twitter)Learn more about GrowthXCheck out Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agent Leaderboard

Andreas Cleve, CEO & Co-founder of Corti, discusses AI's game-changing potential in healthcare. He debunks the myth that the industry is slow to adopt technology, showcasing how tailored AI solutions are alleviating burdens for clinicians. Andreas highlights how AI can tackle the 10 million healthcare professional shortage projected by 2030, redistributing a trillion dollars of work back into patient care. He emphasizes the importance of AI in augmenting, not replacing, human professionals to enhance care delivery and drive organizational growth.

Mikiko Chandrasekhar, a Staff Developer Advocate at MongoDB, brings her expertise in the data-to-AI pipeline to the discussion on mastering multi-agent systems. She highlights the importance of reliability in AI agents, advocating for treating them as software products. The conversation delves into MongoDB’s role in supporting generative applications and discusses the need for robust debugging tools and systematic evaluation for agent performance. Mikiko also emphasizes the significance of balancing qualitative insights with quantitative metrics for effective AI development.

Philipp Krenn, Director of Developer Relations at Elastic, discusses the critical need for trust and reliability in AI agents. He highlights the new AI reliability platform from Galileo and its role in enhancing developer experiences. The conversation touches on Elastic's evolution towards AI innovations, including Retrieval-Augmented Generation and specialized language models. Krenn emphasizes the importance of robust testing and guardrails for building high-performing AI systems, ensuring they meet the demands of modern enterprises.

Giovanna Carofiglio, a Distinguished Engineer and Senior Director at Cisco's Outshift, leads the AGNTCY Collective focused on agent interoperability. She discusses shaping the Internet of Agents by establishing protocols like Slim for seamless communication. The importance of observability and security in AI applications is highlighted, along with the challenge of scaling agents reliably. Giovanna advocates for open standards to foster collaboration, ultimately aiming for trustworthy, efficient agent interactions that can transform AI systems.

When AI makes creating content and code nearly free, how do you stand out? Differentiation now hinges on two things: unique taste and effective distribution.This week, Bharat Vasan, founder & CEO at Intangible and a "recovering VC," explains why the AI landscape compelled him to return to founding. He sees AI sparking a new creative revolution, similar to the early internet, that makes it easier than ever to bring ideas to life. The conversation delivers essential advice for founders, revealing why relentless shipping is the ultimate clarifier for a business and why resilience, not just intelligence, is the key to survival.Drawing from his experience on both sides of the venture table, Bharat breaks down the brutally competitive VC landscape and shares Intangible's mission: to simplify 3D creative tools with AI, finally bridging the gap between human vision and machine power. Listeners will gain insights on company building, brand strategy, and why customer obsession is the ultimate moat in the AI age.Chapters:00:00 Introduction 00:45 From Founder to VC and Back03:17 Human Creativity in the Age of AI07:50 The Role of Taste and Distribution11:49 Building a Brand in the AI Era16:17 The Venture Capital Landscape for AI Startups20:11 Advice for Founders in the AI Boom23:55 Incumbents vs. Startups27:10 The New Generation of Innovators29:19 Pirate Mentality in Startups30:00 Building a Brand36:28 Shipping and Resilience41:49 Customer Obsession46:58 The Vision for Intangible51:52 ConclusionFollow the hostsFollow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Atin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Conor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vikram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Yash⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Today's Guest(s)Connect with Bharat on LinkedIn.Follow Bharat on X.Learn more about Intangible at intangible.ai.Check out Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try Galileo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Agent Leaderboard