
Under the Tree: A Seminar on Freedom with Bill Ayers
“Under the Tree” is a new podcast that focuses on freedom—a complex, layered, dynamic, and often contradictory idea—and takes you on a journey each week to fundamentally reimagine how we can bring freedom and liberation to life in relation to schools and schooling, equality and justice, and learning to live together in peace.
Our podcast opens a crawl-space, a fugitive field and firmament where we can both explore our wildest freedom dreams, and organize for a liberating insurgency. "Under the Tree" is a seminar, and it runs the gamut from current events to the arts, from history lessons to scientific inquiries, and from essential readings to frequent guest speakers.
We’re in the midst of the largest social uprising in US history—and what better time to dive headfirst into the wreckage, figuring out as we go how to support the rebellion, name it, and work together to realize its most radical possibilities—and to reach its farthest horizons?
Latest episodes

Feb 19, 2024 • 55min
Guilty of Journalism with Kevin Gosztola
Julian Assange who founded WikiLeaks in 2006 went on to win multiple awards for his investigative journalism covering, among other stories, political killings in Kenya and social unrest in Tibet. Assange came to wide international attention in 2010 when WikiLeaks published a series of leaks from US Army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning, including footage of US airstrikes in Baghdad, and US military logs from Iraq and Afghanistan. The US government—charging Julian Assange with conspiracy to commit computer intrusion, and later for violating the Espionage Act of 1917—has pursued Assange relentlessly. Since April 2019, Assange has been confined in HM Prison, Belmarsh as the US extradition effort grinds forward and is contested in the British courts. We’re joined by Kevin Gosztola, author of Guilty of Journalism: The Political Case Against Julian Assange, for an urgent conversation about the imminent fate of someone who dared to tell the truth.

Feb 9, 2024 • 59min
Care with Premilla Nadasen
The brutality of capitalism is apparent in every direction: war, invasion, and occupation throughout the world; militarized police forces at home; super-exploitation at the point of production; the looming catastrophic climate collapse; the banality of evil in the increasingly pervasive carceral state. Capitalism willfully and skillfully nurtures our vilest qualities—selfishness, greed, murderous competition, corruption—and deliberately degrades other qualities: mutual care, human kindness, the beloved community. The rage to accumulate is the beating heart of capitalism; injustice and predation follow as surely as day follows night. We’re joined today in conversation with Premilla Nadasen, professor of history at Barnard College, Columbia University and author most recently of Care: The Highest Stage of Capitalism. Professor Nadasen interrogates the plundering, profit-driven care system in the US, and illuminates the transformative power of collective resistance.

Jan 24, 2024 • 1h 1min
Investigating Apartheid with Omar Shaktir
As Israel’s crimes against humanity multiply and mass death and indiscriminate destruction escalates, as the world unites around a near-universal call to stop the genocide against the Palestinian people and militant resistance to US complicity deepens here at home, we are fortunate to be joined by Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine Director at Human Rights Watch. Omar Shakir has authored several major investigative reports, including a 2021 account that comprehensively documents Israel’s apartheid apparatus and its systematic persecution of millions of Palestinians. As a result of his advocacy, the Israeli government deported Omar in November 2019.

Jan 11, 2024 • 1h 17min
SPECIAL: All Eyes on Palestine
As Israel continues to execute its pre-announced genocide of the Palestinian people, ethnically cleanses Gaza, and attempts to liquidate an enclosure that they themselves created, everyone of goodwill around the world is calling for a ceasefire. As of now 22,000 Palestinians have been murdered, close to 2,000,000 displaced in Gaza, countless hospitals, school, and clinics destroyed, and vital supplies of food and water stopped at checkpoints. The US media says that Gaza is starving, and it’s true that famine is imminent, but the passive voice is an obscenity. The truth is that Israel is starving Palestinians deliberately. The US stands alone in blocking a ceasefire. This Special Episode is curated from Episodes 23, 41, 77, and 81—episodes recorded over the past two years. We hope these conversations are enlightening and illuminating, and that they deepen your sense of the urgency to act against war in these terrible times.

Dec 31, 2023 • 1h 13min
Survival and Resistance with Janie Paul
In this episode we’ll be heading over to the dazzling Pilsen Community Books, a regular stop on our freedom tour, for a conversation with Janie Paul, Professor Emerita at the School of Art and Design at the University of Michigan, and curator and co-founder with her late husband, Buzz Alexander, of the Exhibitions of Artists in Michigan Prisons, a project of the legendary Prison Creative Arts Project. Her beautiful new book, Making Art in Prison: Survival and Resistance, is filled with extraordinary images of the dazzling creations of people caged inside Michigan prisons—it’s a stunning achievement. But before we go to the bookstore, we pause for a moment for an update, because the genocide in Gaza is on-going, and Palestine is still front-of-mind for us, and we hope for you too.

Dec 15, 2023 • 36min
Palestine on my Mind
Images from Gaza crowd into the available space, disrupting sleep, shattering the calm, demanding to be taken into account.Dead children and babies piled upon one another, body parts littering a hell-scape of demolished homes and apartment buildings, collapsed bridges and towers, refugee centers burned to the ground, hospitals in utter ruin.This is not justice; this is the face of fury, of vengeance unleashed. This is the face of genocide.

Nov 29, 2023 • 49min
Coming Together as Things Fall Apart with Astra Taylor
Charles Dickens would recognize our predicament at once: the winter of despair and the spring of hope; an age of foolishness and an age of wisdom; Darkness in combat with Light. Life is never one thing isolated from every other thing; a lot of things can be—and are—happening at once. Contradiction—the dynamic, noisy, frenetic magnificence of life as it’s actually lived—is the universal experience of humanity.We’re fortunate to be joined by the smart and inspiring organizer/activist/artist Astra Taylor, someone willing to dive into rather than run away from contradiction as she illuminates both our problems and our possibilities in new ways. Taylor is a founding member of the Debt Collective and author, most recently, of The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart. Taylor’s work—and this conversation—is an antidote to despair and a call to action.

Nov 15, 2023 • 1h 14min
Stop the Genocide of the Palestinian People! Stop Cop City!
A group of Chicago writers brought together by the worker/owners of Pilsen Community Books gathered to support and raise resources for our comrades in Atlanta fighting to Stop Cop City. But events ran ahead of us, as they often do, and by the time we gathered, the preannounced genocide against the Palestinian people was in full swing. The connections were clear: militarism and violence abroad, out-of-control militarized police forces at home; land seizures and occupation everywhere; repression and the violent suppression of dissent. We stood up and spoke out—for an immediate ceasefire, for an end to the genocide in Gaza and the murderous violence in the West Bank, for an end to Cop City in Atlanta, for self-determination for the Palestinian people and for an end to US aid to Israel.Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years War Against PalestineNathan Thrall, One Day in the Life of Abed SalamaThe One Democratic State Initiative Ta-Nehisi Coates on Israeli ApartheidOn Antisemitism, Anti-Zionism and Dangerous Conflations from Jewish Voice for Peace, and antisemitismcurriculum.org/

Nov 1, 2023 • 1h 3min
Indigenous Language Politics and Resistance with Mneesha Gellman
A favorite political poster hangs on a wall in my office: “Homeland Security” it proclaims in bold letters above a photo of a group of Indigenous elders holding rifles; below it reads, “Fighting Terrorism Since 1492.”It’s a reminder of the centuries of settler colonial policy and genocidal terror carried out by the US government against Indigenous peoples and nations and lineages, as well as the natural environment, the trees, the bison, and more. And it’s a reminder that resistance goes back to the beginning and continues to this day.This episode of Under the Tree—a conversation with Mneesha Gellman, author of Indigenous Language Politics in the Schoolroom: Cultural Survival in Mexico and the United States which explores the contemporary fight for Indigenous language in the classroom as a site of struggle and resistance against erasure and genocide—was recorded at the courageous, worker-owned bookstore, Pilsen Community Books, a familiar and friendly stop on our Chicago freedom tour.

Oct 18, 2023 • 1h 13min
Mass Supervision with Vincent Schiraldi and special guest Renaldo Hudson
Listeners of Under the Tree are well aware of the fact that the US is a Prison Nation, with over 2,000,000 people locked inside cages every day, aware, as well, that we are abolitionists involved in the movement-making and world-building work that will one day make prisons obsolete. But the carceral state is a many-legged monster with dangerous tentacles stretching out in every direction—there are now over 4,000,000 people under state supervision, on parole or probation. It’s an enormously expensive enterprise that does nothing to reduce risk to society while creating enormous hazards for anyone coming home or caught in its web. One in four people caged today is locked up for a violation (curfew, association, failure to report, and more). This episode—a conversation with Vinnie Schiraldi, author of Mass Supervision: Probation, Parole, and the Illusion of Safety and Freedom, and friend-of the-pod Renaldo Hudson—was recorded at the intrepid, worker-owned bookstore, Pilsen Community Books, a familiar and favorite haunt of ours.