Interior Integration for Catholics

What makes a good marriage? In this wide-ranging discussion with Dr. Gerry Crete and David Edwards, we address this question from so many angles, bringing Internal Family System, Emotionally Focused Therapy, the Gottmans’ family therapy work and addressing idealization, love, vulnerability, attachment, wounds, conflict, devaluation, friendship, pressure, commitment, patience, giving, forgiveness, receiving, sacrifice.  We explore how managers, firefighters, and exiles experience marriage and explore ways that marriage move beyond surviving to flourishing.Dr. Gerry Crete’s practice: Transfiguration, is here: https://www.transfiguration.co/David Edward’s practice, St. Joseph Counseling is here:  https://www.stjosephcounseling.com/Souls and Hearts have an amazing searchable archive of hundreds of resources on Catholicism and Internal Family Systems in dozens of topics, with an AI assistant to help you find what you need.  Check it out here:  https://www.soulsandhearts.com/archiveThe Resilient Catholics Community (RCC) opens just three months each year: February, June and October. We will begin accepting applications for our 14th cohort on October 1. Nearly 300 faithful Catholics are learning to love themselves, God, and others more fully in community, using the best of human formation resources grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person, informed by IFS and grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person.  As members work through materials in small groups and with companions, they experience the beauty, messiness and realness of human relationships in a safe environment, helping them first to love themselves in an ordered way and, later, learning to radiate that love upward to God and outward to others. Learn more and sign up for the interest list: https://members.soulsandhearts.com/rccPlan to attend our live Zoom informational meeting to learn more. The meeting will be from 8 PM to 9:15 PM on Tuesday, September 29, 2026. Register here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/jyHHqRKiRYaDGWMaij4-1A

Home.  Family.  Belonging.  Love.  What does it mean to have a healthy marriage, a healthy family?  Gerry Crete and Theresa Robinson join us to explore that question: “What does a thriving marriage and flourishing in family life look like?  We bring in Internal Family Systems, attachment theory, perfectionism, the importance of family members delighting in each other, parents’ vows and scripts, how loving children involves more than the will, and the importance of “being with” each other.   Check out Theresa Robinson’s practice, Greenhouse Counselling, here: https://www.greenhousecounselling.com/ And Dr. Gerry Crete’s practice, Transfiguration, is here: https://www.transfiguration.co/ Episode 85 is all about perfectionism:  https://youtu.be/bw-zUp2h_TA Check out our Resilient Catholics Community – the RCC offers structured programming to help orthodox Catholic flourish in life by working on our human formation: https://members.soulsandhearts.com/rcc If you are a Catholic therapist, coach, spiritual director, priest, or in another role where you accompany others in their human formation, consider the Formation for Formators Community (FFF).  The FFF is all about the personal, human formation of the formator, so that you can better receive and give love in how you accompany others.  More here:  https://members.soulsandhearts.com/fff And our daily sister podcast, Scripture for Your Inner Outcasts is all about helping our listeners integrate inside, heal from emotional burdens, and grow to flourish in accepting being loved and loving yourself in an ordered way.  https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureForYourInnerOutcasts Key moments: 0:00  The home and family as a human treasure and source of joy4:30  The core question for this podcast series11:10 What does it mean to have a healthy marriage and family?13:30 The importance of the family, the “domestic church”21:00 Parts’ expectations for family life – flourishing does not equal perfection25:00  Dr. Peter was a great parent right out of the gate, but then things got much more real.  25:56  Perfectionism in family life – how “the best is the enemy of the good.”  Attachment needs and integrity needs in family life.  Dr. Gerry wanted to provide his children everything so that they would be happy.  29:41 Eudaimonia is about a life well-lived, not perfection, a place where children can rest in the security of love33:30  Unconditional love in the family vs. a focus on “achievement”36:20  What is flourishing in marriages and family life? 40:42 The importance of joy and delighting in children45:45 How mothers and fathers can parents from a position of self-protection; the importance of pausing49:15  Parents’ vows and scripts are often reactions to their experience of their own parents50:53  Parents often take too much responsibility for their children’s behavior57:25  Balancing wanting the best for our kids with the need to “let go”1:00:10 Even heroic acts of the will are not enough in loving children10:01:30  How understanding parts make family relationships much easier1:04:20 Self-led parenting1:05:19  Parts language and family life1:09:00 How parts work helps with forgiveness in family life1:18:40  Some reassurances about parenting:  how earthy parents are not the primary parents of their children,  God’s providence is active1:19:20  “Being with children” is more important than solving their problems1:22:30 Reversal with children and identification/counter-identification with parents1:26:00  Earthly parents are secondary parents, redux. God has a plan for every miscue, every mistake. He's willing to rewrite the family symphony, to take on the bad notes and turn them into good notes in His Providence1:28:25 Flourishing in a family is about creating an ecology or environment of worth and delight1:30:20  For each mom to remember that she is a beloved little daughter of God.

Download a PDF of Dr. Amalu’s dissertation: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/8yt9aur8ixed59q/Amalu_Final_Dissertation.pdf/fileHis private practice:  https://www.deeprenewalpsychotherapy.com/Dr. Peter Martin’s practice:  https://www.immaculateheartcounseling.org/The CCMMP is here:  https://divinemercy.edu/department-integrative-studies/catholic-christian-meta-model-of-the-person-ccmmp/Dr. Anthony Flood’s book:  https://www.cuapress.org/9780813234205/the-metaphysical-foundations-of-love/Dr. Monty De La Torre’s article on the 8 Cs and virtue:  https://www.soulsandhearts.com/blog/8cs-of-ifs-and-their-connection-to-the-virtues/IIC 169 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM3OcGYDJE8Summary:  Measuring IFS by the gold standard of Catholicity for therapeutic approaches – that’s what Catholic psychologists Christian Amalu, Peter Martin, and Peter Malinoski are exploring today.  The Catholic Christian Meta-Model of the Person (CCMMP) by Dr. Paul Vitz, Dr. William Nordling, and Dr. Craig Titus systematizes the 11 essential dimensions of a person that need to be respected in seeking to heal and change.  How does IFS stack up to those dimensions? How must it be adapted to be fully Catholic?  And how can IFS even inform the CCMMP in some important ways?  Join us and find out.  Key moments:11:55 Dr. Amalu and Dr. Peter meet for the first time..14:15 The very beginnings of the Catholic Christian Meta-Model of the Person in 200517:10 What the CCMMP offers:  1) a true and authentic representation of all of the elements that when put together is the human person; 2) providing a normative framework that defines what a human being ought to be and what flourishing looks like; 3) bringing together a Catholic understanding of philosophy and theology, and grounding psychology in what we know to be true by Divine Revelation28:30 Dr. Amalu describes his dissertation, evaluating IFS through the lens of the CCMMP, bringing IFS into dialogue with the Catholic Faith.32:40 How can IFS engage in the Christian project of healing?  40:24 The dissertation can help Catholics understand why they can trust parts and systems approaches, including IFS, with some modifications, which Dr. Amalu lays out45:19 Catholic virtue from an IFS perspective, bringing in the 8 Cs and the 5 Ps of IFS51:45 Dr. Richard Schwartz: “The parts are crying out for redemption.”55:00 How Schwartz stumbled onto a naturalistic religion.57:50 How IFS helps us not only to love our parts in an ordered way, but to like our parts59:15 The importance of playfulness and delight. “It’s wonderful that you exist.”1:03:36 How so many people leave the Catholic Church because they don’t believe it has the answers to the human formation issues that trouble them1:05:00 Does IFS nuance, extend, or expand any of the premises of the CCMMP?  Some limitations of the CCMMP.  How IFS and the CCMMP could inform each other.  Trauma, the unconscious, parts and systems thinking, and the relationship to self (self-love) are not addressed in the CCMMP.  Does IFS nuance any of the premises of the CCMMP?1:16:51 Progression from self-awareness to self-possession to self-gift as the US Bishops describe.  1:18:50 St. Maximus describes the human person is a microcosm of the cosmos, a small little cosmos within that reflects the entirety of all creation. Humankind is the nexus point of the contact between created reality and the divine.  If you do our own internal work, it's going to lift everybody else up in the Mystical Body of Christ, and it will have a positive impact on the rest of the cosmos.1:23:30 The importance of mercy in whatever model of the human person you use.  1:25:30 What helps all of you to flourish?  Including your exiled parts.  1:03:40 Pope Benedict:  Healing is an essential dimension of the mission of Christianity.  Healing is holiness.  “Love each other from an undivided heart.”

Mother Natalia, a Byzantine Catholic nun and podcaster who speaks on theosis and monastic spirituality, joins a lively conversation. She explains deification as an ongoing union with God. The talk focuses on how parts work and spiritual woundedness intersect with theosis. Practical themes include watchfulness, healing fragmented parts, and how God reaches the broken with gentle presence.

Deification: A secret in the Catholic Church that really shouldn’t be a secret.  Join Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr Matthew Tsakanikas, professor of theology at Christendom College, and Dr. Peter for a wide-ranging discussion of the glory, the adventure, the awe of partaking of God’s divine nature with the entirety of our being – our hearts, souls, minds, bodies, innermost selves, and all our parts, from a perspective informed by Internal Family Systems and grounded in a Catholic anthropology and metaphysics.  What does it really mean for all of you to be a beloved little son or beloved little daughter of God?  Books by Dr. Matthew Tsakanikas:2025 A Catechesis on Deification, Transfiguration & the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DX1HZMLM/2026 Meditations on Deification and the Luminous Mysteries: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0GWVYQGPPCheck out our sister podcast:  https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureForYourInnerOutcasts The Resilient Catholics Community is about to reopen for new members in June. If you are a Catholic who wants to overcome the natural level obstacles to sharing deeply in God's divine nature as his beloved little son or beloved little daughter, and are into parts and systems thinking, consider applying to the RCC at www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc.Online Workshop for those Catholic Formators new to IFS, “Catholic Parts Work in Human Formation” will be on June 10, 2026 from 8:00 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern, register at https://members.soulsandhearts.com/Catholic-parts-workThe Formation for Formators Retreat is August 10-13, 2026 in Bloomington Indiana.  The theme is “Authentic Being and Authentic Relating.” This retreat focuses on you finding and loving you in more of your parts, including parts you have not yet encountered – your exiles – more at www.soulsandhearts.com/FFF  Conversation Hours with Dr. Peter are every Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30 PM to 5:30 PM Eastern Time on his cell at 317.567.9594 – it’s an opportunity to discuss themes from this podcat or any of the materials generated by Souls and Hearts.  Key Moments12:00 What is deification/theosis/divinization?  Being made a son or daughter of God means sharing in God’s nature.  15:00  Ephesians chapter 1 reveals God’s plan from before the foundation of the world to makes us sons in the Son.  16:52  Dr. Gerry’s objections to the IFS conceptualization of “Self”21:01 The image of God within us is dynamic – the “capax Dei” 21:50  How Adam and Eve lost their interior integration with the Fall and how Jesus opens the way for re-integration.27:05  Satan to Adam and Eve “Ye shall become like gods….” 30:30  How do we receive the love of God?  34:20  The internal battle: “Parts of me are drawn to receive God’s love and parts of me are not…”41:19 The necessity of entering into a loving relationship with Jesus for interior integration43:40  God’s wills that you flourish in all domains and in all your parts48:40  Divinization and the human body53:00  Divinization is “too hot to handle” for many Christians – but it’s the essential framework for all of the Catholic life, it’s the essential story that holds all the other stories.  1:02:00 The importance of accepting all of my parts as they are right now.  God accepts all parts as they are, so I need to as well.  Acceptance of a part does not mean endorsing that part’s disordered desires, impulses, and emotions1:08:35  Sometimes parts find it easier to tolerate being loved by someone other than God at first, and that lesser loves can help parts open up to God’s direct love1:25:01  Dr. Tsakanikas’ key takeaway:  Love makes the lover want to make the beloved equal to himself,1:26:28  Dr, Gerry’s takeaway:  It’s important for us to evangelize each of our own parts1:27:54  Dr. Peter’s takeaway:  Real love is given freely. But in our fallen human states, in our fallen human condition, it's not received without a cost to our parts. 

Featuring Dr. Monty De La Torre (philosopher of parts and soul), Dr. Gerry Crete (Catholic marriage and family therapist), Dr. Anthony Flood (Aquinas scholar on love and self-governance), Dr. Andrea Messineo (philosopher-counselor blending IFS and pastoral care), and Elizabeth Galanti (IFS-trained counselor integrating faith). They tackle compatibility of IFS with Catholic anthropology. They debate Self and parts, discerning demonic influence, ordered self-love, conscience, and clinical prudence.

Dr. Andrea Messineo, philosopher and therapist who works with parts and Catholic formation, and Fr. Thomas Berg, moral theologian and priest focused on pastoral healing, explore conscience, parts, and the inner self. They discuss how parts interact with intellect, will, impulses, addictions, and concupiscence. Practical topics include prudence, somatic signals, midday check-ins, and integrating self-leadership with parts for moral formation.

Dr. Andrea Messineo, philosopher-turned-therapist blending IFS and MacIntyre-informed moral thought; Fr. Thomas Berg, priest and moral theologian with pastoral formation expertise. They explore moral reasoning through parts work, Thomistic virtue and community, values clarification versus objective goods, how trauma and blending distort choices, dependence and formation, and the proper use of penance and integration.

Dr. Gerry Crete, licensed marriage and family therapist who integrates spirituality and therapy, and Dr. Peter Martin, psychologist and IFS therapist focused on faith-integrated recovery, discuss ordered self-love, governing passions while loving passionate parts, saints and blendedness on a continuum, Theology of the Body from women’s perspectives, mercy as central, and how parts work informs chastity and embodied spiritual formation.

In this enlightening discussion, Christopher West, a prominent Theology of the Body scholar, teams up with Dr. Gerry Crete, a licensed marriage and family therapist. The duo explores how Internal Family Systems (IFS) deepens the understanding of eros and integrates the teachings of St. John Paul II. They discuss the journey of healing from trauma, the significance of tenderness in marriage, and how chastity can unify fragmented selves. The conversation beautifully ties the concepts of love, liturgy, and internal growth, inviting listeners to embrace their wounded parts.