Interchange Recharged

In this episode, we’re measuring the energy transition -- using “Price is Right” rules. Our former co-host Stephen Lacey is back on the show to face off against our current host, Shayle Kann. Producer Daniel Woldorff steps in as arbiter. We’ll guess stats and trivia about climate tech, and discuss what those figures mean for the energy transition. They cover the MSRPs of popular EVs, the cheapest PPA in the world, carbon prices, carbon capture investments, industrial materials and more.Who won?* Have a listen to find out!*Note: Our producer Daniel miscounted the score. It didn’t affect who won, but he’s going back to math classes to relearn how to count.The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice. The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Elon Musk’s magic is making huge promises to transform a tech sector -- and then, after a series of setbacks, ultimately deliver. But the Solar Roof never delivered on its promise of chic, affordable solar-power generating roof shingles, as Dana Hall’s recent article in Bloomberg lays out.Today, there are some solar roofs on homes. The Gigafactory that was meant to churn them out in Buffalo, New York is humming along, but not nearly at the 1,000 Solar Roofs per week that Tesla was originally aiming for. In the meantime, the company has raised prices on customers, fired a number of executives, and faced a shareholder lawsuit in which the Solar Roof played a central role. So how did Tesla get here?We’re re-running one of our favorite episodes, a conversation with Austin Carr of Bloomberg  about Tesla’s solar woes. It’s from back in June 2019.We’ll look at the history of SolarCity/Tesla’s manufacturing plans, the derailed plans for the solar roof, and how current manufacturing activity compares with Tesla’s promises to New York.Read Austin’s reporting on Tesla’s solar business:Bloomberg: Did Elon Musk Forget About Buffalo?Fast Company: The Real Story Behind Tesla’s Acquisition of SolarCityThe Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice. The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

There were about eight years when climate tech was wandering in the wilderness, so to speak. It started after the Solyndra bankruptcy in 2011 and ended about two years ago, when the market began heating up again.During that time, people in this space examined the valleys of death. What are the stages in a climate tech company’s life cycle that might be painful -- or even fatal -- to go through? And what resources can a company draw upon to cross these valleys?To tackle those questions, Shayle spoke to Amy Duffuor, a principal at PRIME Impact Fund, which is set up specifically to help startups cross that chasm (Shayle is on PRIME's investor advisory council).Amy and Shayle name the four major valleys, drawing on Hara Wang and Cyril Yee’s RMI article, “Climate Tech’s Four Valleys of Death and Why We Must Build a Bridge.” Then, they compare the climate tech world of today to 2014, a low point in the space when the Prime Coalition was started, examining some of the biggest changes:The influx of generalist investorsThe maturing ecosystem of incubators, accelerators and funds that provide support at multiple stages in a startup’s path to growthThe explosion of corporate commitments, reflecting the growing demand for climate action from consumers, investors and the general publicThe growing options for exit, such as SPACs and M&As, that are making it easier for entrepreneurs to raise more money, fasterFinally, they look toward 2025 and ask: How might the valleys of death shift in the future?The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice. The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We spend most of our time on this show talking about what's happening in climate tech. What technologies, business models, and markets are being developed? By whom? And how much impact will they ultimately have on decarbonization?But there's an equally interesting topic. What isn't happening? In other words, where is the white space? What areas, technologies, or markets need more attention? The mandate of a new non-profit called Actuate is to identify and fill gaps across multiple areas, including climate. They focus on R&D, using a model similar to the US federal government’s DARPA or ARPA-e programs. Today, Shayle talks to Actuate’s Director of Climate Lara Pierpoint. Prior to actuate she led the Technology Strategy team at Exelon. She's also worked at the US Department of Energy and has a PhD from MIT in engineering systems.Shayle and Lara talk about:Demand response, an example of one type of gap where we have the technology but don’t know how to use it yet.Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs), a type of nuclear technology used to power spacecraft -- that could also be used planetside as low-density, always on-batteries.The exorbitant costs of laying of wires, a potential cost saver for nuclear plants and other power projects.High-temperature superconductors (HTS) that could act like high-capacity transmission built at distribution scale. For example: VEIR.Sensors and the surprisingly high error bars of many country-level emissions measurementsStorage and competing against transmission, demand response and overbuilding renewables to solve renewable intermittency Oh, and cows. They talk about burp-catching masks and improving the profitability of forests.The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets at sgsderms.com/interchange.The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The array of AI applications within climate tech is staggering -- and rapidly expanding. There are lots of exciting point solutions, but there’s no clear example of AI directly and meaningfully reducing GHG emissions on a global scale. Yet.Last year we had Priya Donti on the show. She’s a PhD student at Carnegie Mellon and co-chair of the Climate Change AI organization. This week, she came back with her Climate Change AI co-chair Lynn Kaack, a postdoc researcher at ETH-Zurich. Priya and Lynn were co-authors on a blockbuster paper on the topic back in June 2019, called “Tackling climate change with machine learning.”They came back on the show to talk about what has changed since that episode -- both the progress and the bottlenecks in applying AI to climate change. They detail the strengths and weaknesses of AI in climate technology using a few case studies: Optimizing power and heating/cooling systemsInsight into large bodies of data, such as analyzing the physical and transition risk to a company’s assetsAccelerating technology innovationThey also discuss the organizational approaches to AI: Do you go vertical or horizontal? That is, do you hire AI practitioners to work within an organization with deep domain experience, such as a utility, or is it more effective to leave those challenges to an organization of AI generalists who work across many fields?Lynn points out there’s a third way: spinning up an AI group within an organization.The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets at sgsderms.com/interchange.The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Was 2020 the year of carbon transparency? That’s what our host Shayle predicted back in 2019. Today, we’re checking in on that prediction with a rebroadcast of one of our favorite episodes. It originally aired almost a year ago in late June 2020. A handful of companies have experimented with labeling the carbon content of their products, but it's never really caught on. Now that might be changing.Logitech CEO Bracken Darrell recently called carbon “the new calorie" after the electronics maker implemented a CO2 label on all of its packaging. It’s one of many recent attempts by food and consumer goods producers to make the lifecycle emissions of their products clearer to consumers. Is it the start of a trend?In this episode, we’ll examine the new generation of climate labels. We’ve seen attempts at carbon labeling before. What makes these newer ones different? And will they stick?Plus, we’ll try to answer listener questions about renewable natural gas, vehicle-to-grid, environmental, social and governance standards, and COVID-19 predictions.This episode was recorded live in front of hundreds of listeners (remotely). The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business. The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The excitement around green hydrogen has grown dramatically in recent years. Will it live up to the hype?This week, we turn to technologist, author and investor Ramez Naam. Ramez and Shayle examine the drivers behind cost improvement -- namely the costs of electricity and different electrolyzer technologies -- and why they are likely still a long way off the deep declines hydrogen needs to scale.They also cover the hurdles hydrogen may face along the way to scale, including fierce competition from grey hydrogen, fossil fuels, and electrification. There’s also the location question: Where are you going to make green hydrogen with renewables? The answer: Probably not where you need it, which is a problem given the cost and difficulty of transporting hydrogen.Ramez breaks down the policy strategies in Europe, North American, Japan and Australia.Shayle asks: Is blue hydrogen a bridge to green hydrogen, or a bridge to nowhere that will leave niche assets obsolete in a decade or two?They also assess Michael Liebreich’s grades for hydrogen end uses (Ramez gives ground transport an F).Finally, given this hydrogen landscape, where do you invest? They find clues in the early days of the solar market.The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business. The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A decarbonized power sector will unlock massive opportunities across nearly every other sector, either via direct electrification or via indirect electrification via the production of low-carbon fuels, like green hydrogen.But here’s the rub. Many of the companies that are working on these solutions rely on pretty heroic assumptions around the cost, availability and cleanliness of electricity in order for the economics to work.To put it bluntly, many decarbonization business models hinge on a cell deep in their spreadsheets that has 1- to 3-cent per kilowatt-hour electricity. Is it a realistic assumption?To tackle that question, Shayle turns to his colleague at Energy Impact Partners, Andy Lubershane, the Senior Vice President of Research & Strategy.They survey the technologies that depend on this super cheap, super abundant power, such as EVs, space heating, carbon removal, green hydrogen and industrial heat.Then, they examine the talk of cheap renewables, covering the difference between cheap wholesale and more expensive delivered prices. They break down the variables that make up the difference between wholesale and delivered prices, namely transmission, distribution and capacity factors. So what are the solutions that could shrink that gap?The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business. The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The pandemic has forced just about every part of society to reckon with resilience, but for cities the question is especially urgent. Will the global trend toward urbanization, which has been underway for more than 50 years, change its trajectory? Will increasing density remain the norm?The intersection of these two issues -- resilience and urbanism -- is relevant in a COVID context, but it's also increasingly important in a climate context. Shayle has talked about how the increasing prevalence and magnitude of natural disasters are going to slowly but surely foster a "culture of resilience" in society, where we're forced to deal with the likelihood that once in 100-year events are happening much more often.So what does building better resilience into cities actually mean, and how are we performing?To tackle these questions, Shayle turns to the co-hosts of Technopolis, a podcast about how technology is disrupting, remaking, and sometimes over-running our cities.Molly Turner is an urban planner and teaches urban tech at UC-Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. Jim Kapsis runs The Ad Hoc Group, a firm that helps climate tech startups navigate and grow in heavily regulated markets.Shayle, Molly and Jim discuss the changing urban migration patterns and what it means for the future of cities.The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The US Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office might be the most talked about -- and yet least understood -- part of the federal government’s efforts to support climate tech. It has already invested more than $35 billion in everything from Tesla's first big factory to the first two nuclear reactors to begin construction in the U.S. in more than 30 years. It was crucial in getting the first multi-hundred-megawatt solar projects ever developed off the ground.Today it has more than $40 billion of available loan capacity to throw at the next wave of climate technologies to scale.And now, as of a couple months ago, it has Jigar Shah as the director. Previously, Jigar was the co-founder and president of Generate Capital. He also founded SunEdison. And, of course, he is the former co-host of our sister podcast The Energy Gang. Jigar believes we have the technologies we need to put us on the right path toward decarbonization today. And further, that those technologies aren't as risky as the capital markets make them out to be.Therein lies the arbitrage opportunity Jigar has pursued his whole career. And now he's got $40 billion of federal dollars to test it in a whole new arena.In this episode, Shayle and Jigar break down the role of the Loan Programs Office and the specific financial products it offers. The backing of the federal government comes with the unique opportunities -- namely to move way faster on market opportunities than traditional debt markets can. But as Jigar explains, it comes with key limitations too.They also cover the technology sectors that Jigar sees opportunities in -- everything from green hydrogen to small modular nuclear to virtual power plants. And they highlight the stage of companies and types of projects the office might be uniquely suited to support.Plus, Jigar names the ideas he’s waiting to see (but that no one has pitched to him yet). The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.