The Intuitive Customer - Helping You Improve Your Customer Experience To Gain Growth

Summary Traditional customer feedback is broken. Post-call surveys and quarterly reports are too slow, cumbersome, and overly focused on the company’s needs rather than the customer’s reality. By the time insights land on a dashboard, the customer has already left—or worse, lost trust. In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, I (Colin Shaw) and Professor Ryan Hamilton sit down with Devidas Desai, SVP of Product Leader at ASAPP, to explore how AI that listens is reshaping the way organizations understand and respond to customers in the moment. We delve into why silence doesn’t mean satisfaction, why feedback must shift from lagging indicators to real-time signals, and how AI can transform agents into superheroes rather than script-readers. Along the way, Devidas shares his bold vision for the “death of dashboards” and why the future is “anti-dashboard.” If you’ve ever felt trapped in a maddening customer service loop (looking at you, broadband companies), this episode will resonate. More importantly, it will show you what’s possible when organizations finally stop treating feedback as an autopsy and start listening in real time. Best Quote: “AI that listens isn’t about replacing humans—it’s about keeping the human in the loop, so customers get both speed and empathy in the same conversation.” Devidas Desai, SVP, Product Leader at ASAPP Key Takeaways Feedback as Autopsy: Traditional surveys and dashboards give you a post-mortem, not a diagnosis. By the time you act, the damage is done. Silence ≠ Satisfaction: No feedback often means customers have given up on you—not that they’re happy. Real-Time > Real Late: True customer experience happens in moments, not in reporting cycles. AI that listens can capture sentiment, intent, and context as it unfolds. Human in the Loop: AI doesn’t replace humans—it augments them. The best systems blend automation with empathy and judgment. Agent Superpowers: With AI, agents can enter conversations fully briefed, emotionally aware, and guided toward the best next step. Less paperwork, more trust-building. Anti-Dashboard Future: Forget drowning in charts. The next wave is conversational dashboards where you ask questions, and AI gives clear, plain-language answers. Trust is the Endgame: Customers, agents, and leaders all need to trust the system. Real-time listening, done right, rebuilds that trust. Resources: Devidas Desai, SVP, Product Leader at ASAPP - https://www.linkedin.com/in/devidasdesai/ ASAPP https://www.asapp.com/   About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn.   Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press 2025  Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify   This show was recorded in partnership with ASAPP  

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Professor Ryan Hamilton is joined by guest co-host Ben Shaw, Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe, to explore the enduring role of brand archetypes in marketing and customer experience. They revisit the origins of archetypes in Jungian psychology and the influential book The Hero and the Outlaw (Pearson & Mark), before debating how useful the framework remains today. Together, they discuss the power of archetypes to create consistency, unlock creativity, and guide internal decision-making while also recognizing their limitations, risks of rigidity, and occasional resemblance to horoscopes. The conversation ranges from brand strategy in B2B to the impact of AI agents on future purchasing, highlighting how archetypes can still be adapted, evolved, and made practical for modern brand building. 🔑 Key Takeaways Archetypes as tools, not rules: Archetypes provide a shared language for teams and a lens for decision-making, but they shouldn’t become a straightjacket. Sub-archetypes unlock creativity: Going beyond the 12 canonical archetypes helps brands avoid sameness and find distinctiveness in crowded categories. Accessibility matters: Archetypes are most effective when they make complex strategy simple and relatable—otherwise they risk losing non-marketing stakeholders. Playing against type: Some of the most disruptive brands (e.g., Liquid Death) succeed precisely by defying category-expected archetypes. Archetypes in B2B: While not always necessary, they can still be useful to express human needs like trust, security, or freedom, even in highly functional categories. AI and archetypes: The rise of AI agents in commerce could challenge the role of storytelling in decision-making, but also presents opportunities for brands to encode their archetypes into machine-readable signals. Healthy ambiguity: Like many frameworks, archetypes work best when used as a catalyst for debate, inspiration, and consistency but not as a rigid formula. 📚 Resources Mentioned The Hero and the Outlaw: Building Extraordinary Brands Through the Power of Archetypes — Carol Pearson & Margaret Mark Carl Jung’s theories of archetypes and collective unconscious Example brands: Liquid Death, Old Spice, Superman, The Beatles Applications of AI & Large Language Models in creative brand strategy

Your Customers are Lazy... and Bored: How to Use That to Your Advantage Show Notes:  This week on The Intuitive Customer, Colin takes a step back and welcomes guest host Morgan Ward to explore one of psychology’s favourite contradictions: why customers cling to the familiar, yet crave novelty. From music playlists to yogurt purchases, from comfort food to product design, Colin and Morgan unpack why we’re wired for both—and how brands can use that tension to create better customer experiences. Best Quote from the Episode “Familiarity earns trust. Novelty earns attention. Get the balance right, and you earn loyalty.” Key Takeaways Customers don’t always prefer the familiar or the new—it depends on context and need. Status quo bias (familiarity) is driven by loss aversion and cognitive laziness. Novelty seeking is driven by boredom and our need for optimal arousal. The best products deliver both—“updated classics” that balance safety and stimulation. Ask yourself: is your customer seeking comfort or excitement right now? Your answer determines whether to lean into familiarity or novelty. 🎧 Listen in to discover why customers sometimes want the same old thing… and sometimes something entirely different. About the Hosts: Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press 2025  Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Morgan Ward is a former marketing professor and experienced brand consultant, now founder of InsightHive—a behavioral strategy consultancy that helps companies apply consumer psychology to real-world brand challenges. With over 20 years of experience advising clients ranging from start-ups to Fortune 500s and publishing in top academic journals, she’s passionate about decoding the symbolic and cultural forces that shape consumer behavior. Her work focuses on status, identity, and decision-making across sectors like luxury, retail, and tech. Beyond consulting, Morgan serves as an expert witness in branding and advertising litigation, bringing academic rigor to questions of perception, distinctiveness, and influence. Follow Morgan on LinkedIn Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify  

In this milestone episode, The Intuitive Customer undergoes a transformation. Colin Shaw announces a step back from the regular hosting role, prompting a fresh chapter in the podcast’s evolution. Hosts Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton introduce two new expert contributors — Dr. Morgan Ward, a consumer psychologist, and Ben Shaw, a brand strategist — to bring fresh perspectives on customer behavior, brand experience, and the future of CX. Together, the four hosts discuss the state of customer experience today, particularly in light of the stagnant growth in the American Customer Satisfaction Index over the past three decades. They debate metrics versus meaning, the enduring value of physical retail, and the coming wave of non-visual AI-driven brand interactions. The episode sets the stage for a broader, more dynamic take on what it means to truly understand and serve customers in the modern age. Quote of the Episode "We're using metrics that are more relevant to the business than to the person actually experiencing the brand." — Dr. Morgan Ward Key Takeaways Customer satisfaction has plateaued: The American Customer Satisfaction Index has barely moved in 30 years, despite huge investments in CX. This calls into question the effectiveness of current CX strategies. ROI needs to be central: CX professionals must link experience improvements directly to financial returns if they want continued investment. Metrics can be misleading: Overly relying on simplified metrics like NPS can lead organizations astray, especially when they’re gamed or don’t reflect real consumer emotions. Retail is making a comeback: Resurgence in physical retail’s emotional power especially among younger consumers who crave tactile experiences. The future is voice-first: How AI-driven, non-visual brand experiences will redefine customer interaction demanding new forms of design thinking. Dual focus is key: Brands must balance operational improvements today with strategic planning for a fast-approaching future filled with disruptive technologies. Resources Mentioned American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI): www.acsi.org — Independent benchmark of customer satisfaction in the U.S. since 1994. About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press 2025  Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Ben Shaw Ben Shaw is Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe UK, having also led strategy at BBH and worked client-side with fast-growth start-ups Wheely and Unmind. He’s passionate about how brands can challenge culture convention and create ideas people want to spend time with, working on brands like Audi, Google and Burger King.  Beyond advertising, Ben champions mental health awareness and rare disease research, drawing on both personal experience and professional curiosity. Follow Ben Shaw Morgan Ward Morgan Ward, Ph.D. is a marketing scholar and former professor at Emory University and Southern Methodist University, with over two decades of expertise in consumer behavior and branding. She’s worked with clients ranging from start-ups to global brands, helping them translate behavioral science into strategies that resonate in culture and drive growth. Her academic research explores status, symbolism, and the psychology of consumption, and she has served as an expert witness in federal trademark and trade dress cases. Beyond her academic and consulting work, Morgan is fascinated by how cultural shifts shape what people desire, and how brands can both reflect and influence those desires. Follow Morgan on LinkedIn Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify  

You can theorise about Customer Experience all day, but gaining a Net Promoter score of 90 is not a theory. It shows a great focus and implementation of Customer Experience. This week, we are exploring how this was achieved with Kamron Kunce, VP of Marketing & Customer Experience at RJ Young. https://www.rjyoung.com/ RJ Young has been in business for over 70 years and boasts a world-class NPS score of 90+ — no small feat in today’s hypercompetitive market. Kamron shares how they’ve transformed their Customer Experience, navigated organisational silos, and are thoughtfully introducing AI into their processes — without losing that all-important human touch. If you’re wrestling with legacy systems, struggling to turn CX theory into practice, or figuring out how to scale with AI without alienating customers,  this episode is packed with practical tips you can take away today. And, if you're a regular listener, you'll know this one plays right into one of Ryan’s and my favourite themes: breaking down those silos! Best Quote From the Episode “Customer Experience is everyone’s responsibility. It’s not just about Customer Service — it’s about aligning the whole organisation around delivering value at every touchpoint.” — Kamron Kunce, RJ Young Key Takeaways ✅ CX must be a core business strategy, not a bolt-on function of Customer Service. RJ Young’s “Make It Right Guarantee” puts this principle front and centre. ✅ Map your Customer Journey — and revisit it regularly. Quarterly and annual reviews keep RJ Young’s CX aligned to ever-evolving customer expectations. ✅ Break down silos with transparency. Weekly cross-functional updates and quarterly company-wide video broadcasts ensure alignment across 700 employees and 9 states. ✅ Cross-functional collaboration is critical. Everyone, including Finance and HR, plays a role in the Customer Experience. ✅ Thoughtful use of AI is the future. RJ Young is leveraging AI to improve backend data insights and operational efficiency, without removing the human element that drives loyalty. ✅ CX + Culture go hand in hand. Embedding CX into your company culture is essential for sustainable success. Resources Mentioned RJ Young: https://www.rjyoung.com/  Kamron Kunce: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kamronkunce/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press 2025    Follow Ryan on LinkedIn.   Subscribe & Follow   Apple Podcasts Spotify

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Colin Shaw speaks with Andy Traba, VP of Product Marketing at NICE, about the company’s new mission: Creating a NiCE World. This isn’t just a rebranding message — it’s a strategic shift toward unified, proactive, and AI-enabled customer experiences. Andy and Colin explore why AI alone isn’t enough, the dangers of siloed implementations, and why leading organizations are turning to platforms — not point solutions — to orchestrate connected, emotionally resonant journeys. If your organization is serious about CX transformation, this conversation provides clear guidance on where to start, what to avoid, and how to align internal functions toward a shared customer strategy. Quote of the Episode “The moment you find success with AI, you’ll want more. That’s why you have to start with a platform — not a point solution — so your entire organization can scale, align, and deliver a truly connected experience.” — Andy Traba, VP of Product Marketing, NiCE   🔑 Key Topics Covered: NICE’s Global Happiness Index and the emotional impact of service Why 37% of customers still get stuck in repeat interactions The risk of siloed AI and “Frankenstack” technology stacks Platform strategies for AI orchestration and enterprise-wide memory Proactive service as the new CX battleground Segment of one personalization and behavioral science applications Practical starting points for CX leaders in 2025 📎 Resources Mentioned NiCE - https://www.nice.com/ NiCE Global Happiness Index Report - https://get.nice.com/2024-intl-happiness-index-report.html Connect with Andy Traba on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-traba-a75a1b3/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press 2025  Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify   This podcast was undertaken in partnership with NiCE  

The podcast explores the critical decision of when to utilize AI versus human interaction in customer service. It reveals that while AI can handle routine requests, human empathy is irreplaceable during complex situations. Listeners learn that strategically integrating AI can enhance customer experiences without alienating users. Surprising findings show AI-generated emails can exhibit more empathy than those from humans. The discussion also includes the advantages of being early or cautious adopters of AI in the fast-evolving market.

In a lively discussion, Professor Ryan Hamilton, a marketing expert from Emory University and co-author of 'The Growth Dilemma', unpacks the tricky balance of brand growth in a diverse market. He highlights how customer segments are interconnected and influence each other's choices, often leading to backlash when brand strategies misfire, as seen with Bud Light and Crocs. Expect insights on navigating customer dynamics and why misjudging your audience can spell disaster for brand identity and loyalty.

Ever thanked a chatbot? You're not alone, and maybe it's stranger than you think! Discover why 50% of customers lose trust when AI is involved, despite its growing presence. Dive into the psychology of customer-AI interactions, revealing that a single bad AI experience can tarnish future trust. Explore how people relate to AI as if it were a friend, even experiencing mixed emotions about adopting new technologies. This engaging discussion merges academic insights with real-world examples to reveal the intricate dance between trust and AI.

How happy are you when you buy auto insurance? If your answer is anything other than thrilled, you’re not alone. In fact, years ago, a UK insurance company tried to convince us otherwise with their tagline “Quote Me Happy.” Spoiler alert: Nobody was happy. This raises a fascinating question: What role does advertising play in the customer experience, and why is there such a massive disconnect between the ads we see and what we actually get? In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton dive deep into the Great Expectation Gap—and they’ve brought in a special guest: Ben Shaw, Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe (and, fun fact, Colin’s son). It turns out that years of heated Sunday lunch debates on advertising vs. CX have led to this moment! 🍽️ Together, they explore why marketing often sets unrealistic expectations, how brands can align advertising with reality, and why great advertising can only work if the customer experience delivers on the promise. 💡 Tune in to discover: ✅ Why customers feel frustrated when reality doesn’t match advertising promises ✅ The power of the word "BUT" in advertising and how it reveals hidden customer tensions ✅ The real reason marketing and CX teams aren’t on the same page—and how to fix it ✅ How Apple mastered the art of aligning advertising and customer experience ✅ Why spending more on advertising won’t solve a broken CX (no matter how creative the campaign is) Best Quote from the Episode: The Brand makes the promise in the Market, the Customer Experience should deliver against that promise. — Colin Shaw  Resources Mentioned Ben Shaw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benshawuk/ 'Brand Ben' on Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@benshaw37?_t=ZN-8ujJORxL3SQ&_r=1 Mullen Lowe: https://www.mullenlowe.co.uk/  About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 86,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World’s Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called “The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things” Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify #CustomerExperience #Marketing #Advertising #Branding #CX