BibleProject

In this engaging discussion, the hosts tackle intriguing questions about the nuances of humans and animals in biblical context. They explore the implications of animal portrayals and how they relate to humanity's moral standing. The conversation shifts to the Book of Daniel, unraveling its complexities and the character of Daniel himself. Insightful debates on the 'Son of Man' reveal themes of messianic identity and collective humanity. Additionally, they envision a future reality of love and embodying values beyond traditional concepts of heaven.

Discover the three nuances of Jesus as the Son of Man, emphasizing His divine authority to forgive and heal. Explore how He steps into the roles of both Adam and high priest, reclaiming humanity's forfeited authority. Hear about Jesus' teachings on servant leadership, contrasting worldly power with service. Delve into the significance of suffering and exaltation in the context of the Kingdom, as well as the transformative impact of His messages on perception of authority and community. A fascinating discussion on redemption and the growth of God's kingdom!

The discussion dives into how Jesus embodies the 'Son of Man' and draws parallels to Adam's story. The wilderness setting highlights Jesus’ testing, echoing Adam’s original expulsion from Eden. Uniquely, Jesus coexists peacefully with wild animals, symbolizing his authority and restoring dominion. The conversation explores the significance of angels ministering to Jesus, linking him to cosmic themes. Ultimately, the analysis positions Jesus as a new Adam who triumphs over temptation, paving the way for his kingdom and teachings.

Explore the biblical exploration of the 'Son of Man' as a significant theme in Daniel 7. The discussion spans the failed attempts of figures like Noah, Moses, and David to embody this ideal. Dive into Daniel's vision of four chaotic beasts and how they symbolize historical empires. Understand the contrast between divine authority and corrupt human rule, highlighting Jesus as the true human who fulfills this role. Discover how this narrative shapes Christian hope and invites believers to participate in the journey towards resurrection and glorified humanity.

In part one (0:00-6:30), the guys briefly go over the previous conversations from the Son of Man series. Tim explains that in order to fully understand the Son of Man imagery in Daniel 7, Daniel 1-6 needs to first be unpacked. Daniel 7 is significant because it’s a culminating vision of the whole Hebrew Bible imagery told in one very dense chapter. In part two (6:30-25:50), the guys go over the history of the Babylonian Empire and King Nebuchadnezzar. He was a king of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, a sort of resurgence of the previous Babylonian rule. Babylon had long been dormant while Assyria was the world superpower, but Babylon had a brief rise to prominence again under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar. He dominated Jerusalem and took their promising youth with him to Babylon. Daniel was in this group. Tim points out a few hyperlinks to other parts of the Hebrew Bible at the beginning of the book of Daniel. Daniel is the "royal seed" carried away to Babylon who replays the test of Adam and Eve and succeeds! Daniel 1:3-4: "And the king of Babylon told his officers to bring from the sons of Israel and from the royal seed… youths...who were good of sight and wise with all wisdom, and knowing knowledge, and understanding knowledge…" Dan 1:5-7: "And the king assigned for them a daily ration of the king’s choice food and his wine, to raise them for three years so they could stand in his service. Among them were sons of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah...but Daniel set it upon his heart to not defile himself with the king’s choice food or his wine…" Dan 1:12: "Daniel said, 'Let there be given to us from the seeds, and we will eat, and water, and we will drink.'" Daniel is depicted as a new Adam, who is brought into Babylon already having great knowledge. He refuses the forbidden food (Daniel ch. 1) and only increases in wisdom! Instead, he adopts an Eden-diet of veggies and water and is elevated to serve in the king’s court. Tim’s point is that Daniel is the forbidden fruit that the king of Babylon has just taken. Daniel has an opportunity to eat the forbidden food of the king and break his kosher diet. He refuses the forbidden food and therefore passes the test. In part three (25:50-end), Tim and Jon go over the two dreams that Nebuchadnezzar has leading up to Daniel 7. In Daniel 2, the king has a dream. Once Daniel gives the interpretation, the king worships Daniel. Daniel 2:46-49: "Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face and worshipped (sagid) Daniel, and gave orders to present to him an offering and incense. Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many great gifts, and he made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. And Daniel made request of the king, and he appointed Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego over the administration of the province of Babylon, while Daniel was at the king’s court." Then Daniel 3 is an inversion of Daniel 2. The king wants everyone to worship an image of him. This is the story of the blazing furnace. Daniel 3:10-12: “You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, and bagpipe and all kinds of music, is to fall down and worship the image of gold. “But whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire. “There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the administration of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. These men, O king, have disregarded you; they do not serve (palakh) your gods or worship the golden image which you have set up.” So Daniel 2 and 3 are inversions of each other, and then in Daniel 4, the king has another dream. In the dream, a "watcher” appears. Tim notes that this is the only time that specific word appears in the Hebrew Bible. However, it also appears in the book of Enoch, a Jewish book written in the same time period. The king calls Daniel again to interpret the dream. Daniel 4:20-25: "The tree that you saw, which became large and grew strong, whose height reached to the sky and was visible to all the earth and whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt and in whose branches the birds of the sky lodged— it is you, O king; for you have become great and grown strong, and your majesty has become great and reached to the sky and your dominion to the end of the earth. ‘In that the king saw a watcher, a holy one, descending from heaven and saying, “Chop down the tree and destroy it; yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, but with a band of iron and bronze in the new grass of the field, and let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him share with the beasts of the field until seven periods of time pass over him,” this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king: that you be driven away from mankind and your dwelling place be with the beasts of the field, and you be given grass to eat like cattle and be drenched with the dew of heaven; and seven periods of time will pass over you, until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes." Tim notes that when the Babylons of this world acknowledge that God is truly the wise sovereign, then they can become the true human rulers they’re intended to be. But when they do not, when they turn their national power and glory into an idol (as in Daniel chs. 2 and 3), God shows them what they are: beasts. The narrative contrasts the beastly Babylon with the human Daniel who submits to God’s rule and is elevated to rule by God’s wisdom. So to sum up the episode: The king of Babylon’s worship of the divine image of Daniel in Daniel 2 is ironically reversed in Daniel 3, where his friends are forced to worship the false image of Babylon. These twin stories set up the tension of the book: What humanity will be exalted as the divinely appointed ruler of the world? Babylon or the “royal seed” represented by Daniel and his friends? The king’s worship of Daniel becomes a narrative image of the worship of the son of man in Daniel 7. And Daniel 7 is a symbolic and cosmic depiction of a real, historical conflict (Antiochus’ attack on Jerusalem and defilement of the temple in 167 B.C.) that has been depicted as part of an ancient pattern going all the way back to Genesis 1-3. Thank you to all of our supporters! Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Bloc, KV Show Resources: Our video on the Son of Man: https://bit.ly/2URk3BH B. Mastin, "Daniel 2:46 in the Hellenistic World," in Zeitschrift für alttestamentliche Wissenschaft, volume 85 (1973), pages 80-93. Crispin Fletcher-Louis, "Jesus Monotheism" chapter 6, "High Priestly and Royal Messianism," Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The podcast explores the concept of humans behaving like animals in biblical narratives, highlighting the symbolism of sin as a destructive 'beast'. It delves into the significance of sibling stories like Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, emphasizing the theme of second-born favoritism. The symbolism of the snake in Exodus stories is discussed, connecting it to battling evil and Yahweh's power over chaos. The episode also delves into the role of the Son of Man in overcoming evil and the connection between Daniel 7 and the story of Jesus.

Tim and Jon delve into the serpent's complex role in Genesis, exploring the meaning of the Hebrew word 'arum,' typically signifying wisdom but framed negatively here as 'crafty.' They discuss how the serpent entices humanity to overturn its intended peaceful role over animals. The duo speculates on the serpent's potential identity as a rebellious divine being and connects its legacy to the violent behaviors of figures like Cain. The conversation also links Noah's story to humanity's ongoing struggle for peace, culminating in the quest for a 'son of man' to restore true humanness.

Welcome to episode two of our series discussing the biblical theme of the Son of Man. In this episode, Tim and Jon discuss humanity's role in relation to other parts of creation, specifically animals. In part one (0:00-30:15), the guys briefly recap the first episode and quickly go over Daniel’s dream in Daniel 7, where he has a vision of the Son of Man appearing. Tim then dives into the language and ideas presented in Genesis 1 and specifically focuses on the order of creation and how the days are paired. Genesis 1:1-2: In the beginning God created the skies and the land and the land was wild and waste, and darkness was over the face of the watery deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Wild (tohu) = unordered Waste (vohu) = uninhabited Day 1 - Light: Separated from dark, day and night. Day 4 - Lights appointed to rule the day and night. Day 2 - Waters above separated from waters below. Day 5 - Creatures in waters below, creatures in waters above. “And God created the great sea monsters..." (1:21) “And God blessed them, saying be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters…” (1:22) Day 3 - Water separated from dry land. “Let the land bring forth (ותוצא) plants and vegetation and seed-producing plants and trees producing fruit.” (1:12) Day 6 - Creatures on the land. “Let the land bring forth (ותוצא) living beasts by their kinds.” (1:25) “Let us create the human (ha-adam) in our image and as our likeness… And God blessed them, and said, (1) be fruitful and multiply and fill the land and subdue it, and rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the beasts on the land.” (1:26-28) Gen 2:1-3: God rests on the seventh day, which does not end. Tim then focuses on humanity's relationship with animals. Tim notices that humans are the “second comers” to creation, who are given the responsibility to rule over the animals who came first. This is a pattern that shows itself many times in Genesis. (Think about Joseph’s sons later in the story.) Tim then asks what it means for humans to be called to rule over the animals. Tim cites Richard Bauckham’s book Living with Other Creatures, “It is not often well enough noticed that the command God gives to humanity refers to two rather different matters. It refers first to the relationship of humans to the earth, secondly to their relationship to other living creatures...and they are not the same thing. Humans are not alone in being told to be fruitful and to multiply and to fill, the first and birds were given the same blessing on day 5. Only humans are told to fill and to subdue the land. In the narrative this refers clearly to agriculture, taking possession of the soil and working it in order to make it yield more food for humans than it would otherwise do. But what about all the other land animals? How does humanity’s role of subduing land relate to God’s blessing of the animals to fill the land? Notice God’s next words to the humans: See, I have given you (humans) every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food. (Gen 1: 29– 30) Why does God tell humans that he has given every plant for food for the other living creatures? Surely, the reason is that it is the humans who need to know that the produce of the earth is not intended to feed them alone, but also all the living species of the earth. The clear implication is that the earth can provide enough food for all creatures. Humans are not to fill the earth and subdue it in a way that leaves no room and no sustenance for the other creatures who share the earth with them. God has given them too the right to live from the soil. So the human right to make use of the earth, to live from it, is far from unlimited. It must respect the existence of other creatures. The biblical portrait of human dominion over the animals must be filled out by the Bible’s vision of “royal rule.” Since Genesis depicts the image of God as a kind of royal function, the rule of a king over others, it is worth recalling the only passage in the law of Moses that refers to the role of the king in Israel (Deut. 17: 14– 20). There it is emphasized that the king is one among his brothers and sisters, his fellow-Israelites, and should not forget it. He should not accumulate wealth or arms or indulge in any of the ways kings usually exalt themselves above their subjects. Only if they remember their fundamental solidarity with their people will kings be able to rule truly for the benefit of their people. Similarly, only when humans remember their fundamental solidarity with their fellow-creatures will they be able to exercise their distinctive authority within creation for the benefit of other creatures.” (pp. 226-228) In part two (30:15-41:30), Jon asks about carnivorous animals like lions. Tim says that life survives at the expense of other lives right now, but apparently, in the new creation, that will fundamentally change. Tim says that humans bear responsibility for animal’s destiny; that’s why we are called to rule them. This is humanity acting in their identity of the divine image. Tim shares this quote: “The close relation of the term for God’s image with that for the commission to exercise dominion emerges quite clearly when we have understood selem as a plastic image. Just as powerful earthly kings, to indicate their claim to dominion, erect an image of themselves in the provinces of their empire where they do not personally appear, so man is placed upon earth in God’s image as God’s sovereign emblem. He is really only God’s representative, summoned to maintain and enforce God’s claim to dominion over the earth.” Gerhard von Rad, Genesis: A Commentary, ed. Peter Ackroyd et al., trans. John H. Marks, Revised Edition., The Old Testament Library (Philadelphia, PA: The Westminster Press, 1972), 59–60. Tim says that a human making an idol is an oxymoron. Humans are the image of God, so why would they make one? Tim then posits that in Genesis 3, an animal (the snake) is the one who deceives Adam and Eve. Humans end up getting ruled by the animals instead of ruling them. In part three (41:30-53:00), the guys discuss Psalm 8: O Lord, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth, Who have shown Your splendor above the heavens! ….When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained; What is human that You take thought of him, And the son of man (human) that You care for him? Yet You have made him a little lower than elohim (God or angelic beings), And You crown him with glory and majesty! [kavod va-hadar ‘divine attributes’] You make him to rule [mashal] over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas. O Lord, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth! Notice how God’s exaltation and glorification of humans is set within an inclusion frame about God’s own majesty and reputation. An exalted humanity doesn’t compete with God, rather it increases God’s own honor, because humans are an expression of the divine beauty and creativity. In part four (53:00-end), Tim shares this quote: “One point of saying that God is the absolute sovereign (as the biblical texts say time and again) is to say that he is free: free to exalt and share his own power and divine power with those whom he wills, through a transformation of their nature and identity; free to create entities that in various ways share in his identity as ruler and judge, and who manifest his presence within the world… The God of the biblical story is able to enter into and take on the nature and identity of the very reality he has created, taking it up into his very self. God’s identity is, apparently, “sharable.” … God’s identity is not a zero-sum game. To say that God shares his identity with humanity does not mean he suffers a loss of being; on the contrary, it is actually a way of saying that his identity is magnified and his glory extended.” [Tim’s note: “and, we may add, this is the way the divine love is extended as well.”] - Crispin Fletcher-Louis, Jesus Monotheism, 310-312. Tim says that for God, relationship with creation means entering into a shared relationship with it. Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents The Cave Resides Deep in the Forest, Artificial Music Talking with You, Copyright free Very Chill Saxaphone, Copyright free Show Resources: Gerhard von Rad, Genesis: A Commentary Crispin Fletcher-Louis, Jesus Monotheism Richard Bauckham, Living with Other Creatures. Our video on the Son of Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6cWEcqxhlI&t=113s Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The hosts delve into the significance of the term 'Son of Man' and its contrast with 'Messiah.' They explore cultural idioms tied to the concept of 'son of,' shedding light on how Jesus used this title uniquely. A fascinating discussion emerges around Daniel 7, where visions of empires and a mysterious figure connect to Jesus’ journey. The nuanced language choices between Jesus and Paul are unpacked, pointing to the evolving understanding of identity in a historical context. It's a deep dive into biblical titles and their meanings.

In this episode, Tim and Jon revisit the different ideas and themes that have been discussed in our podcast series on the identity of God in the Hebrew scriptures. In part one (0:00-27:30), the guys briefly outline some of the ideas in the series. Jon asks Tim if in the garden of Eden is the serpent’s offer to the humans of becoming “like God,” or in Hebrew, “like elohim.” Does it actually imply that humanity was looking to be in a different class of being than the one they were created to be? Tim says he thinks this is right. It’s about an overreach from what your created realm of authority is supposed to be. Tim reflects on the story of the Hebrew Bible as a whole saying that it’s a commentary on God’s intention for humanity to rule as his images. And while they may be lower in class than the spiritual beings/elohim. They are the image of the elohim of elohim (Yahweh) and are therefore entitled to rule. Tim says the question is whether humanity will choose to know good and evil by grabbing it out of turn, or if they will learn it relationally by being in relationship with Yahweh. Tim says that these stories are designed to be elusive and allusive. They are supposed to be somewhat vague and not to be read like a textbook. They are also supposed to allude to other stories in the Bible. In part two (27:30-49:00), the guys continue to reflect on the takeaways from their discussions in the God series. Jon says that he wishes he could arrive at more closure around the idea of the Trinity, but he wonders if that’s even possible. Tim sympathizes and says that the idea to some degree lacks language and human ability to comprehend it. Tim says that Peter says people are made to be “participators in the divine nature.” 2 Peter 1:3: “His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.” In part three (49:00-end), Tim says there are a few other things that he learned in the series. For example, in the ancient world, the concept of giants is a huge idea. Giants are always connected to being divine or semi-divine. Tim says the Hebrew word nimrod actually means rebel in Hebrew. Tim also says that he realized how huge Daniel 7 is. It’s a chapter that is crucial to understanding Jesus’ worldview and who he thought he was. Tim also mentions two books (see resources) that helped him understand the ancient Hebrew view of God/Yahweh among other gods. The guys wrap up the conversation by talking a little bit about the upcoming Q+R and looking forward to the Son of Man series premiering next year. Thank you to all of our supporters! Show resources: The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel by Benjamin D. Sommer The Two Powers in Heaven by Alan Segal Our video on God: https://bit.ly/2CycuKe Show Produced By: Dan Gummel Show Music: Defender Instrumental. Tents Faith, Tae the Producer Praise through the Valley, Tae the Producer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.