REWORK

“When dealing with customers, especially those that are angry, there are always two tokens on the table. One is the token for it just doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. And the other token is it's the end of the world. We pick one, and the customer picks the other.”—Chase ClemonsToday, Chase Clemons is here. Chase is the Head of Customer Support and is on the front lines every day as he leads the 18-person support team at 37signals. Listen in as he shares why every customer interaction's outcome depends on which one of the two tokens the support team chooses, how to keep things Fisher Price easy for better customer understanding, and some of the strategies he has learned over his eleven years at 37signals for providing excellent customer service. Show Notes:  [00:56] - Chase shares his story of providing customer support for 37signals for 11 years. [01:48] - The two industries Chase thinks everyone needs to work in at some point in their lives to be able to handle ANY situation that life or customers throw at you. [02:25] - Chase shares what went wrong when the 37signals support team tried to meet a 1-minute benchmark for responding to customers.  [05:25] - What the customer support team learned when they dropped the time requirement. [05:54] - Chase shares an example of how they got off to a rocky start with a customer, but by offering real people PHONE support, they turned it into a WIN for the team and a new customer. [09:12] - Is it a BOT or not?[10:25] - Chase explains the meaning of 'stop the cap.'   [10:50] - Humans are expensive but also friendly and can actually help other humans. [11:46] - 'Training the corporate out of them' and adopting the Basecamp voice for friendly, concise answers. [13:12] - How to explain things so they don't get lost in the translation.[14:34] - Why the philosophy of Basecamp products is to keep things Fisher-Price easy. [15:17] - Chase compares customer service mistakes to white river rafting and why everyone is afraid until they 'flip in the raft.' [16:54] - The disconnect between what we convey through our text, how people receive it, and why the subsequent response matters the most.  [18:01] - Chase shares the lesson of the two tokens when dealing with customers and why the support team needs to make a big deal out of the problem, so the customer doesn't have to. [20:07] - Chase shares his tips for putting everyone on the front lines, including where to start if you want to involve everyone in your company in customer support. [22:15] - "Interacting with the customers reminds us of who is paying our paychecks."[22:51] - The value of having an 'emergency' contact page for your customers to make them customers for life. [25:39] - Want some advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Contact us here.  Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Need advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Email Chase.  Put Everyone on the Front Lines | REWORK Rework HEY World | HEY Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTube

What is your method of connecting with your customers? Does your product or service make sense to them, and do you understand how they see it?  Our perception of what is easy and straightforward and what the customer perceives as easy and straightforward can sometimes differ, making it vital for everyone on the team to hear directly from the customers without the ‘muffler.‘  Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss how 37signals gives everyone on the team an opportunity to engage with their customers from their book, Rework, in the chapter called "Put Everyone On The Front Lines." Show Notes:  [00:40] - Jason shares why it's great to ensure everyone can engage with the company's customers.[01:47] - David shares why it's vital to hear from the customer without the muffler occasionally.[03:54] - Why it's crucial to have contact with the customers to remember you're selling to individuals—and it's rewarding, too. [05:31] - Ensuring everyone gets their chance on the front lines in front of the customers is one of the most important things you can do.[06:40] - Applying the productivity and insight enhancement process to your team. [07:35] - It's not wasted talent; it's a motivational, bright spot that pays for itself.[08:28] - If you think you're too good to help customers, you're in the wrong business.   [10:40] - 'There's no way you can come away from this experience feeling like it was a waste of time. It's just it's impossible. It's actually incredibly enlightening.'[11:32] - Being on the front lines helps you remember that we are all human, facing our own things outside of what's going on with the software.[12:52] - Everyone means EVERYONE. Founders show up first and lead by example.[15:14] - David shares why sometimes your authentic voice DOES need to be filtered.  [16:11] - Jason shares that you're in bad shape whenever you begin to recite the terms of service to a customer.[18:13] - Why customer support is really marketing. [19:56] - 600 new email threads daily, tens of thousands of potential ambassadors for your brand = the holy grail of organic growth. [21:25] - Customer live demos a thing of the future?[22:25] - Next week, 37signals' head of customer support will share tips on interacting positively with customers, even when they have problems. Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Rework HEY World | HEY Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter 

With the year ending, it's a good time to reflect on how far you've come in the past year as a company.  Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss the growth of the company in 2022 and some of the significant changes they made this year.  They'll walk us through some of the new positions they’ve added, the challenges they faced along the way, and how they work to preserve a culture at 37signals that aligns with who they are. Show Notes:  [00:42] - Jason shares how their two hits, Basecamp and HEY, were the primary motivators to change the way they operate (and grow).[02:44] - How a bigger team is helping 37signals stay on track with their goals.[03:44] -David shares that after 20 years, the extra team members are helping to ensure everything gets done without over-scheduling and a little more downtime. [06:40] - The importance of expanding the team to be more available for their customers to help them better use the 37signals products.[08:13] - How they are creating educational tools to help their customers get more out of their products.[09:26] - Making the experience of buying Basecamp feel more luxurious.   [11:13] - David discusses their painful experiences with not expanding their team to mitigate business risk.[13:04] - Jason shares what's tricky about new roles from the book, Rework. [14:01] - How to stop replaying your greatest hits and embrace the growth experience.  [15:12] - How new blood and fresh perspectives help you test your old ideas to see if they've improved. [17:44] - The joys and challenges of letting go and leaning into growth. [19:01] - The frustrating and rewarding process of putting things on someone else's plate—even if YOU are good at them. [21:49] - The challenge of seeing beyond HOW the work is done to focus on the outcome.[22:54] - Why the culture at an 80-person company cannot be the same as the culture of a 40-person company, and what David and Jason are doing to ensure it remains true to who they are and what they stand for. [26:16] - If you have a specific question for Jason and David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.  Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Rework HEY World | HEY Basecamp Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter 

A small business has many benefits, like being able to move quickly, stay flexible and pivot when needed, something big businesses can't do as easily.  But, with the lure of getting bigger, sometimes small businesses fall into the trap of getting caught up in stiff language and legalese and ending up not sounding like themselves.  Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss why small businesses should embrace the fact they can communicate without running every word through a legal or public relations department, as discussed in the chapter "Sound Like You" of their book, Rework. Show Notes:  [00:54] - Jason shares why they usually publish their writing directly — from mind to keyboard to the world—to get their ideas out there as clearly, and quickly as possible.  [02:00] - Why running something you've written through a filter often produces something that sounds like legalese. [03:00] - David shares why writing what you want to read is vital (or don't share).[05:49] - Big company writing philosophy is often to ensure that your writing says as little as possible but reaches as many people as possible. It's why all big companies sound the same.[07:01] - David shares why you have to create your own interest by simply being interesting, by sharing something novel, of having a stand and a position on something in some regard that's also not just there. [07:52] - The smaller your company, the bigger risk you can (and should) take with your writing.  [09:05] - Jason shares some dos (and don'ts) for writing for your small business.   [12:12] - David explains why developing your writing voice is essential and how you can do it in relative obscurity if you are a small company.[14:49] - How to become an overnight writing sensation (after just ten years of practice).[15:38] - When you SHOULD go through legal and PR before publishing your writing. [18:35] - "We have expertise in authentically stating our observations and opinions about the business world, how to run a company, and how to develop good software—so that's what we do."[19:22] - "Everything is interesting if you peel back the layers far enough."[20:20] - Why it's essential to measure your writing for the internet as a body of work, not on a piece-by-piece basis. [22:03] - The unobtainable formula for creating a hit. [22:57] - The no-traction way to gain traction with your writing. [23:42] - Why you should avoid looking at the stats of how many people are reading your writing. [25:25] - If you have a specific question for Jason or David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show. Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Rework HEY World | HEY Hey World| Jason Fried Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter 

Customer relationships don't have to last forever. Keeping your hands wrapped around every customer will only lead to trying to evolve into something you're not is the death knell for your business.  Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss the idea that you should let your customers outgrow you from their book, Rework.  Show Notes:  [00:32] - Why evolving as your customers do is a death knell for your business. [01:37] - David shares why, as a software design business owner, you need to be the voice of the people who aren't your customers—yet![02:31] - By building in all the features your existing customers want, you are closing the door on what makes things turnkey for new customers. [03:24] - Not every customer relationship has to be forever. [04:55] - Jason shares why your product needs to evolve no matter your business size. [05:39] - Why it's important to gear your improvements on behalf of everyone and not a few outliers.[06:39] - How pricing models differ based on size - both of you and your customers. [07:49] - We don't have whales because we don't have the sales cycle to hunt whales.  [10:38] - Keeping your hands clasped around every customer vs. knowing when to let them go (or grow).  [11:46] - We don't want to change our business to support companies much bigger than ours, but your mileage may vary.  [14:26] - The lackluster appeal of committee-driven software development.[16:07] - Hey—a different animal for a global audience. [16:31] - Jason shares why doing anything easy requires a lot of work. [18:13] - David shares why 37signals is in the business of designing software for an audience of one. [19:11] - Wallet-based feedback is the best feedback you can get. [20:03] - "The only kind of software that is out the gate great is software built for the people who've worked on it."[21:19] - We are putting together an "ask me anything" episode. So if you have a question for Jason and David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Rework HeyDev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter 

"Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted," - David Heinemeier Hansson  Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, discuss their chapter in Rework on why estimating is not the road to completing projects and what has helped them get things done in their business for over twenty years. Show Notes:  [00:42] - David shares why it's time to accept that we're awful at estimating.[03:27] - Why estimating is 'an amazing example of the human optimism to overcome its own fundamental flaws in a way that's just wholesomely unrealistic.'[04:48] - What 37signals does instead of estimating as relayed in Shape Up.[05:49] - Jason asks how much you are willing to spend (or lose) in gambling (and software development projects).[08:13] - The worst situation to be in for rational decision-making.[09:00] - Why it's vital to stick to your limits.[10:29] - "Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted as a barrier for our software development process over all these years."[12:47] - In software development, no one—from the owner of the company to the end user—gets everything they want; staying within your parameters is about trading concessions. [14:15] - You need to keep the engine moving because software development is like baking bread on an industrial scale.  [16:19] - You produce what you practice. [16:57] - You don't cut corners or quality, you cut scope, and if you can't, you scrap the project. [18:15] - Losing the right things prevents you from missing out on other opportunities. [19:48] - Forecasting the next ten years, six weeks at a time. [20:33] - Shortening planning cycles improves your ability to determine your next steps with more accurate information. [21:15] - 'We're making a ton of progress with a small team with a product that's been around for 18 years - so it works!'[23:21] - Why keep doing things that don't work? Links and Resources:Rework Shape UpDev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter

There's a lot of talk in the tech world about getting bigger, growing as fast as you can, and getting investor money so you can scale quickly.  But that's not the only path. And recently, we've seen that being bigger only sometimes works well for companies.  Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the bigger is better culture in tech and why the human connection inherently built into small businesses can actually be an advantage. Plus, their invitation to small businesses to think differently through their open letter called, Come small, come all.  Show Notes:  [00:44] - Jason shares why it's important to note that Basecamp is interested in helping the Fortune 5 million and the small shop down the street. [01:49] - David shares why it's important to him to be honest about the company's target audience. [03:29] - The key to finding the right dance partner that's your bread and butter. [05:30] - David shares the funny anecdote about when Twitter was a customer of Campfire and how they tried to "scare them away." [08:50] - "We found our space. Can we just stay here?"[09:59] - Jason shares why leaning into the space you are uniquely suited for and being closer to the work is an advantage. [12:08] - Why it's essential to cultivate confidence in the human connection built into small businesses.[13:36] - The unsustainable quest for a big market share.  [15:10] - How starting out during the original .com boom and bust cycle taught Jason and David to make sure the company has margin times three.[18:28] - How to look like both an idiot and an oracle without changing a thing about the way you do business. [21:10] - Where business breakthroughs come from. [23:45] - How large companies devour innovation.[24:16] - A special offer to help make Basecamp affordable for new customers that sign up by December 31st.  Links and Resources:Basecamp Open Letter to Small BusinessesOn Company SizeSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter

Throughout its tenure, 37signals has consistently grown without spending much on marketing. How'd the company do this? By out-teaching their competition.  Recently, they've begun sharing their thoughts on company decisions and even doing product walkthroughs on their YouTube channel.  Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the true value of sharing the behind-the-scenes of how they work and what they've learned in over 20 years in business. Show Notes: [00:40] - The transparency in sharing the winding road of building your business.[01:17] - Why we share the behind-the-scenes of our work.[02:40] - David shares that the philosophy of out-teaching the competition is in their DNA. [03:04] - Building the company without overspending on advertising by sharing what we do through various mediums. [03:33] - Jason shares why the go big or go home tropes for building businesses fails to show all the options.[04:38] - How we built Basecamp.[05:25] - It doesn't have to be all or nothing: how sharing makes things more approachable for more people.  [06:16] - The key to sharing what people need to hear when starting out.[07:13] - The value of practical and pragmatic lessons for small to medium-sized businesses.[09:01] - David shares why the lessons from mega companies might be detrimental to your company. [12:33] - Sharing the behind-the-scenes, how we work, and what we've learned in our over 20 years of business through our Discussing Decisions! Videos on YouTube. [13:49] - Why you won’t normally find the 'good stuff' in content marketing. [16:54] - Why Jason and David are not afraid of sharing their 'chef's' secrets. [18:21] - The "secret ingredient" lesson from Kung Fu Panda.[19:08] - Why most businesses succeed (or fail).[19:26] - The topics Jason and David don't feel are worth sharing.[21:32] - Jason shares why they don’t discuss revenue.[22:48] - Changing your lens of view to discover the value of the truth vs. a vanity metric.company. [23:41] - The immense value of sharing the 'true gold.' Links and Resources:Discussing Decisions! A Basecamp Pricing ExperimentDiscussing Decisions! Card Tables and To-DosSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe 37signals Guide to Making DecisionsRework bookThe REWORK podcastThe 37signals Dev Blog@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter

Meetups offer remote companies an opportunity to gather away from the day-to-day for more in-depth conversations that foster deeper relationships for the team and bigger leaps for the company.  At the beginning of October, sixty 37signals employees met up in Amsterdam for the first company-wide meetup outside the U.S. Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the importance of in-person meetups for remote companies, the structure they use for their twice-yearly team gathering, and tips and insight for other companies on planning their own offsite meetings.  Show Notes: [00:34] - The essential value of gathering the entire team together. [02:05] - Why the company decided to gather outside the U.S. for their latest meetup.[02:29] - The changing rhythm of a global company working across several time zones. [04:12] - How moving the event to Amsterdam turned it into a social experience.[04:51] - The priceless value of extravagant experiences and live connections to stay strong and connected as a remote company.[06:39] - Post COVID-19: Why the company-wide meetup experience is an expense not to be cut. [07:26] - How the scarcity of the experience adds to its value.[07:54] - The structure 37signals uses for their meetups.[09:41] - How getting together as a group fosters bigger, more crystallized discussions for bigger leaps as a company.  [11:22] - From the intimacy of the small group dinners to the peer appreciation event, how the meetup fosters deeper relationships for the team. [13:33] - Unifying the unique human experience through sharing cultural diversity.[15:10] - The challenges of transporting such a large and diverse group to the meetup location.  [15:52] - Introducing the Amsterdam meetup lessons into future events. [17:04] - Jason and David share their tips and advice for other remote companies looking to host their own company meetup. Links and Resources:The REWORK podcast@reworkpodcast on Twitter@37signals on Twitter Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com

Co-founders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss decision making within an organization. Small businesses have the advantage of being nimble and able to change course quickly, so there's no reason to get caught up in the "what ifs." Show Notes:0:47 – Avoiding overthinking and overcomplicating issues1:47 – Getting rid of the "what ifs"4:30 – Making decisions as small as possible5:45 – The advantages small business have when it comes to being agile and nimble8:30 – Getting comfortable with uncertainty11:00 – Calculations and projections in decision making13:50 – Deciding when to pivot on a decision15:20 – The Tyranny of Metrics by Jerry Z. Muller18:04 – The 37signals Guide to Making Decisions19:05 – The 37signals Guide to Internal Communication20:20 – Using instincts in decision making22:01 – Maverick by Ricardo Semler23:14 – 37signals upcoming technical blogSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com