Disarming Leviathan Podcast

In this episode of Disarming Leviathan, Caleb Campbell speaks with Holly Berkley Fletcher about her journey from missionary kid in Kenya to CIA analyst to outspoken critic of Christian nationalism. Holly reflects on her evangelical upbringing, her experiences with authoritarian regimes, and how the language of faith is often weaponized to serve political power. The conversation dives into her personal reckoning with evangelicalism, the ethical challenges of public service, and her fierce commitment to democracy, justice, and telling the truth—even when it's costly.About Holly: Holly Berkley Fletcher is a writer, historian, and former CIA analyst who brings a unique voice to conversations about faith, politics, and public life. Raised as a missionary kid in Kenya and trained as an American historian, Holly spent nearly two decades working as an Africa analyst for the CIA. She now writes at the intersection of theology, democracy, and justice, contributing regularly to The Bulwark and her Substack, A Zebra Without Stripes. Her forthcoming book, The Missionary Kids, explores the personal and political legacy of evangelical missions and what it means to grow up in a faith tradition grappling with power. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Podcast Episode Description:In this episode of Disarming Leviathan, Caleb Campbell talks with Todd Wilson about his reflections on C.S. Lewis’s political thought. Todd shares how his long-standing interest in Lewis, combined with a background in politics and pastoral ministry, led him to explore Lewis’s views on democracy, hierarchy, and human nature. Together, they discuss how Lewis’s writing—rooted in a medieval worldview—can help Christians think more carefully about political power, equality, and the role of the church in a democratic society. Todd Wilson Bio:Todd Wilson is a pastor, theologian, and reader of C.S. Lewis, with a particular interest in how Lewis understood politics, hierarchy, and human nature. A graduate of Wheaton College, Todd has spent years reading and reflecting on Lewis’s work, especially its political and social dimensions. He argues that Lewis’s medieval framework offers important insights into how Christians might engage with democracy and power today. Todd is the co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians and leads Integrated Leaders, a coaching and consulting organization focused on helping leaders grow in depth and integrity. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

American boys and men are struggling. Journalist, pastor, and mom Angela Denker joins us to discuss her new book Disciples of White Jesus and the forces shaping the hearts, minds, and identities of young men in America today. From Christian nationalism to isolation and loneliness, Denker helps us trace both the radicalization and the redemption stories unfolding in churches, schools, and homes across the country.About AngelaAngela Denker is a Lutheran pastor, journalist, and author of Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood and Red State Christians: Understanding the Voters Who Elected Donald Trump. With a unique voice at the intersection of faith, politics, and culture, Angela brings the heart of a pastor and the curiosity of a journalist to some of the most urgent issues facing American Christianity today. Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, Sojourners, and The Atlantic, and she travels widely speaking to faith communities, educators, and leaders seeking to understand and heal the fractures in American life. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, New Testament scholar Nijay Gupta joins us for a thought-provoking conversation on how the early church encountered and interacted with political power. Drawing from historical context and biblical insight, Nijay helps us explore how the first Christians navigated empire, authority, and allegiance—and what their example might mean for the church today.About Nijay​Dr. Nijay K. Gupta is a distinguished New Testament scholar and professor at Northern Seminary, renowned for his expertise in Pauline theology, early Christian ethics, and the historical context of the New Testament. He holds a PhD from the University of Durham. He has authored several influential works, including Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church, which highlights the significant roles of women in early Christianity. Beyond his writing, Dr. Gupta co-hosts the "Slow Theology" podcast, contributes to Bible translation as a senior translator for the New Living Translation, and actively participates in scholarly communities such as the Society of Biblical Literature and the Institute for Biblical Research. His commitment to academic excellence and inclusivity continues to shape contemporary biblical scholarship and church practice. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Scholar and author Scot McKnight joins us to discuss how scripture can help us discern the differences between the power of empire and the power of Jesus.More About ScotScot McKnight is professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary and a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. He is the author of more than ninety books, including the award-winning The Jesus Creed as well as A Church Called Tov, The King Jesus Gospel, A Fellowship of Differents, The Blue Parakeet, and Kingdom Conspiracy. He maintains an active Substack newsletter at https://scotmcknight.substack.com. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Russell Moore joins us for a conversation about the state of American Evangelicalism and its drift into a movement of tribalism, combativeness, and culture wars.About RussellRussell Moore is Editor in Chief of Christianity Today and is the author of Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America (Penguin Random House).The Wall Street Journal has called Moore “vigorous, cheerful, and fiercely articulate.” He was named in 2017 to Politico Magazine’s list of top fifty influence-makers in Washington, and has been profiled by such publications as the New York Times, the Washington Post, TIME Magazine, and the New Yorker. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Mike Bird joins us for a discussion about the early church’s understanding of and interaction with empire.More About MikeMichael grew up in Brisbane before joining the Army and serving as a paratrooper, intelligence operator, and then chaplain’s assistant. It was during his time in the military that he came to faith from a non-Christian background, and soon after felt a call to ministry. He graduated with a BMin from Malyon College (2001) and Honours and PhD from the University of Queensland (2002, 2005). Michael taught New Testament at the Highland Theological College in Scotland (2005-9) before joining Brisbane School of Theology as lecturer in Theology (2010-12). He joined the faculty at Ridley as lecturer in Theology in 2013 and served as Academic Dean before taking on the Deputy Principal: Academic role in July 2023.Michael describes himself as a “biblical theologian” who endeavours to bring together biblical studies and systematic theology. He believes that the purpose of the church is to “gospelize,” that is to preach, promote, and practise the Gospel-story of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the author of over 30 books, including the award winning volumes The Gospel of Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, Evangelical Theology, and with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in its World. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Skye Jethani joins us for a discussion about how the teachings an example of Jesus can shape our understanding of justice today.About SkyeAn award-winning author, speaker, and co-host of the Holy Post Podcast, Skye has written more than a dozen books and served as an editor and executive at Christianity Today for more than a decade. Raised in a religiously and ethnically diverse family, his curiosity about faith led him to study comparative religion before entering seminary and pastoral ministry. With a unique ability to connect Christian thought and contemporary culture, his voice has been featured in The New York Times, USA Today, and The Washington Post, and he’s spoken to audiences throughout the world as diverse as the U.S. Naval Academy, The Chautauqua Institution, and the Lausanne Movement.Learn more at withgoddaily.com Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Katherine Stewart joins us to discuss how purveyors of American Christian Nationalism leverage money, lies, and faith to attract, deceive, and manipulate their audience. About Katherine Katherine Stewart is an award-winning journalist and author known for her deep investigative work on the intersection of religion, politics, and democracy. She has extensively covered the rise of religious nationalism, the erosion of church-state separation, and the global push against liberal democracy. Her books include The Good News Club: The Christian Right's Stealth Assault on America's Children, The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism—which inspired the 2024 documentary God & Country—and her latest, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. Katherine’s work has been featured in The New York Times, The New Republic, and other leading publications, making her a sought-after voice in conversations about faith, power, and politics.For more info, visit Disarmingleviathan.com Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Pastor Meghan Good joins us for a conversation about how following the way of Jesus is key to engaging those committed to American Christian Nationalism.More about MeghanMeghan Larissa Good is the lead pastor of Trinity Mennonite Church (Phoenix, Arizona) and author of Divine Gravity: Sparking a Movement to Recover a Better Christian Story, which explores contemporary distortions in how the Christian story is told that have left many people adrift or deconstructing their faith and suggests how a recentering of theology on Jesus can revitalize the Christian movement for generations to come.Meghan has a B.A. from Gordon College, an MDiv from Duke Divinity, and a DMin from Portland Seminary, where she was the first recipient of the Frederick Buechner Award for Excellence in Preaching.In addition to her work for the local church, Meghan serves as theology chair for Jesus Collective, an organization working to unite, equip, and amplify a movement toward a more hopeful Jesus-centered Christianity. Meghan is also Faculty of Record for Teaching Leadership in the Doctor of Ministry program at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary. Learn more at https://meghanlarissagood.com/Learn more about Disarming Leviathan Ministries at DisarmingLeviathan.com.Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists atdisarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe