Disarming Leviathan - Missionaries to Christian Nationalists

This is a rerelease of an earlier episode.Stay tuned to the Disarming Leviathan Podcast. New Episodes coming in a few weeks!Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe—Dr. Dennis Edwards guides us in exploring how the New Testament can shape our understanding of and engagement in politics today.More about Dr. Dennis EdwardsDennis Edwards is the Vice President for Church Relations and Dean of the Seminary and is the author of 1 Peter in the Story of God Bible Commentary series (Zondervan), What is the Bible and How Do We Understand It? (Herald Press), and Might from the Margins: The Gospel’s Power to Turn the Tables on Injustice (Herald Press). Dennis has been married to Susan Steele Edwards since 1982. They are the parents of four children, and grandparents of four.You can find more on Dennis at https://www.revdrdre.com/ Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

This is a rerelease of an earlier episode featuring Tim Alberta.Stay tuned to the Disarming Leviathan Podcast. New Episodes coming in a few weeks!Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Hey friends,I hope you’re having a great summer. I wanted to take a moment to share a quick update on both the Disarming Leviathan podcast and the broader ministry.Podcast UpdateFirst, the podcast. I’m pretty much doing this on my own — no production team, no fancy strategy. If we did have seasons, I think we’d be wrapping up either our second or third season right about now.The way I’ve structured it is pretty simple: I reach out to people I respect — those I’ve learned from or hope to learn from — and record conversations with them. We’ve just wrapped up the most recent batch of those interviews. I have more great discussions lined up for later this summer and into the fall, and we’ll start rolling those out in the fall.In the meantime, we’ll be reposting a few past episodes that still speak to our moment. If you’re newer to the podcast, these may be brand new to you — think of them like those reruns of old sitcoms that feel fresh if you missed them the first time around.Ministry UpdateSecond, a quick update on the ministry itself. We recently released the Ministry Leader’s Companion Guide to Disarming Leviathan. It’s available on our website — disarmingleviathan.com. If you’re a pastor or ministry leader, I’d love for you to check it out. It’s designed to help you navigate conversations with people caught up in Christian Nationalism with wisdom, clarity, and love.Book UpdateAlso worth celebrating: Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor just turned one! The response to the book has far exceeded my expectations. I’m so grateful for your support, for spreading the word, and for sharing how the book is helping you in your ministry and relationships.If you’d like to help spread the word, reviews on Amazon or Goodreads really help others find the book. Sharing it on social media and tagging me or our Disarming Leviathan pages also helps. Also, I’d really love to hear how the book has been meaningful to you or how you’ve put it into practice. You can share with me on social media or email me at caleb@disarmingleviathan.com.Thanks for Your SupportFinally, if you haven’t already, subscribing to the podcast on your favorite platform and leaving a rating or review helps more people find these conversations.Thank you for your ongoing support — for listening, sharing, praying, and striving to love our Christian nationalist neighbors with the love of Christ. When I started this ministry, I honestly didn’t know what to expect. It’s been humbling and encouraging to see how God is using it.I’m grateful for you and praying that as we continue this work together, God would bless and keep you in the months and years to come.Jesus loves you so much!- Caleb E. Campbell Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Political theorist Laurie Johnson joins Caleb Campbell to unpack the deeper forces driving America’s culture wars and ideological divisions. Drawing from her book The Gap in God's Country, Laurie shares her own political and spiritual journey—from Fox News conservative to a more reflective and empathetic posture—exploring how economic upheaval, social dislocation, and a loss of place have fostered political extremism and spiritual confusion. Together, they explore how modern life has misenchanted us, severed our communal ties, and made us vulnerable to ideological possession. Laurie offers wisdom on how we might engage angry or radicalized loved ones—not with facts alone, but through empathy, relationship, and a shared search for meaning in a fractured age.Dr. Laurie M. Johnson is a political theorist, author, and public educator whose work explores the intersections of political identity, spirituality, and social dislocation in modern America. A professor of political science with a Ph.D. from Georgetown University, she has written extensively on extremism, ideology, and the psychological roots of political division, including in her books Ideological Possession and the Rise of the New Right and The Gap in God’s Country. Laurie is also a co-founder of the Morin Academy, inspired by the Catholic Worker movement, and hosts a YouTube channel on political philosophy. Her work invites readers and listeners to explore how economics, place, and identity formation shape our public lives—and how empathy and rootedness might offer a way forward. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Disarming Leviathan, death penalty scholar and former prosecutor Corinna Lain joins Caleb to discuss her groundbreaking book Secrets of the Killing State: The Untold Story of Lethal Injection. With a blend of research and personal reflection, Lain uncovers the history, flawed protocols, and moral implications of lethal injection as America’s primary method of execution. From the invention of the drug cocktail by an unqualified medical examiner, to botched executions carried out by untrained prison guards, to the reality that many on death row are not who they once were—Lain invites us to grapple with what the death penalty says about the state, about justice, and about us.Corinna Lain is a law professor, former prosecutor, and one of the nation’s leading death penalty scholars. With nearly two decades of legal and academic expertise, her research has illuminated the systemic flaws and hidden mechanisms of capital punishment in the United States. Her latest book, Secrets of the Killing State: The Untold Story of Lethal Injection, draws on legal records, personal testimony, and theological reflection to expose how executions are carried out—and at what moral cost. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Disarming Leviathan podcast, Caleb Campbell talks with John Thielepape, a pastor and community leader from North Texas who now works with the Multifaith Neighbors Network and LocalNet. John shares how his team is helping churches and local institutions respond to political polarization, extremism, and social fragmentation. Drawing from his experience managing a community response project in Tarrant County, Texas, John explains how practical tools like the Peacemakers Toolkit and conversation action cards were developed to equip pastors and laypeople for everyday peacemaking. The conversation explores how belonging, trust, and listening can help provide “off-ramps” from radicalization and how discipleship rooted in the way of Jesus can reframe our engagement with those shaped by fear, division, or conspiracy thinking.About John John Thielepape (pronounced Tee-lee-pap) has served as the Director of Missions for the Parker Baptist Association since 2006, supporting Southern Baptist churches in Parker County, Texas—just west of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.Originally from Nashville, Tennessee, John now lives in Weatherford, Texas with his wife Charlotte, a retired public school educator. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Organizational Management, a Master of Divinity, and a Doctor of Ministry focused on Faith Development Theory. Find the Peacemakers toolkit at https://mfnn.org/resource/peacemakers-toolkit/ Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

In a time when influence is currency and spiritual leaders are often shaped by worldly ambition, Kyle Strobel invites us to consider a different path: the cruciform way of the Lamb. Drawing from his book The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb and years of spiritual, theological reflection, Kyle explores how Christian leaders are tempted to use manipulative, domineering, and even demonic forms of power to achieve good ends—and why that inevitably corrodes the gospel. About KyleDr. Kyle Strobel is a spiritual theologian, writer, and speaker focused on the intersection of spiritual formation and Christian leadership. He serves as an associate professor of spiritual theology at Talbot School of Theology and is the co-author of The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb, a provocative exploration of power in the church. A scholar of Jonathan Edwards and co-host of several reflective podcasts, Kyle brings academic depth and pastoral sensitivity to questions of character, formation, and the dangers of worldly success in ministry. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Episode note: Apologies for the sound quality. We had some technical difficulties and recorded this on a sub-par recording platform (the free kind ;-) Huge thanks to Chris for being so gracious and adjusting to make this interview happen!In this compelling conversation, Old Testament scholar and missiologist Christopher J. H. Wright unpacks the Bible’s warnings about idolatry—especially its political forms. Drawing from his book Here Are Your Gods, Wright explains how ancient Israel’s struggle with Baal worship mirrors modern Christian nationalism, prosperity theology, and culture war tribalism. He challenges the transactional logic of false gods, the allure of national deities, and the temptation to baptize political power with religious language. With wisdom, warmth, and prophetic clarity, Wright invites us back to a vision of the living God rooted not in empire or economics, but in justice, humility, and love.About ChrisDr. Christopher J. H. Wright is a renowned Old Testament scholar, theologian, and international voice in Christian mission. He serves as the Global Ambassador and Ministry Director of the Langham Partnership, founded by John Stott, and is the author of numerous influential books, including The Mission of God, Here Are Your Gods, and The Old Testament in Seven Sentences. A passionate advocate for biblical justice, global Christianity, and the missional reading of Scripture, Wright combines rigorous scholarship with pastoral heart. He also hosts the podcast On Mission with Chris Wright, where he highlights voices from the Majority World church. His work can be found at ChristopherJHWright.com and langham.org. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Old Testament scholar Tremper Longman III joins the show to unpack how Scripture can shape our public and political imagination without succumbing to partisanship or Christian nationalism. Drawing on decades of biblical scholarship, Longman explores how the Bible offers moral and theological wisdom—not direct public policy—guiding Christians toward faithful engagement in a pluralistic society. From discussing the misapplication of Old Testament law to confronting modern idolatry in politics, this conversation challenges listeners to resist culture war mentalities, abandon proof-texting, and pursue a gospel-centered posture of humility, repentance, and love in the public square.Check out our website at DisarmingLeviathan.comAbout Tremper Tremper Longman III is a distinguished Old Testament scholar and the author or co-author of over 30 books on biblical interpretation, wisdom literature, and theological engagement with culture. Formerly the Robert H. Gundry Professor of Biblical Studies at Westmont College, he has also taught at Westminster Theological Seminary and served as a visiting professor at institutions around the world, including in Korea and China. Known for his work on Ecclesiastes, Psalms, and the Song of Songs, Longman is a trusted voice on how Scripture informs not only personal faith but also our public and political lives. He is particularly passionate about helping Christians read the Bible with wisdom, rejecting simplistic proof-texting and advocating for an informed, humble engagement with today’s cultural and political challenges. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Special Episode! In early 2025, Pastor Gary Mason visited Phoenix for a conference. Caleb joined Lisa Jernigan and Vermon Pierre for a conversation with Gary about his experience pastoring during the Irish Troubles. This discussion weaves together global insights and local applications for fostering Jesus-centered reconciliation. Together, they reflect on how faith communities can become catalysts for healing in divided times.About Gary:Rev. Dr. Gary Mason is a Methodist minister and founder of Rethinking Conflict, a Belfast-based initiative focused on reconciliation and peacebuilding. He played a pivotal pastoral role during the Irish Troubles, helping to bridge deep divisions between Protestant and Catholic communities in Northern Ireland. With decades of experience in political peacemaking, Gary now advises governments, faith leaders, and community organizations around the world. He is recognized globally for his work in conflict resolution and the role of faith in healing fractured societies.About Lisa:Lisa Jernigan is the co-founder and executive director of Amplify Peace, a global movement dedicated to promoting peacemaking through education, immersive experiences, and community engagement. With decades of experience in church leadership and global missions, Lisa empowers individuals and churches to be transformative agents of peace and justice. Her work spans international conflict zones and domestic communities alike, with a focus on elevating marginalized voices. Lisa is also a sought-after speaker and podcast host committed to reimagining leadership through the lens of compassion and equity.About Vermon:Pastor Vermon Pierre is the lead pastor of Roosevelt Community Church in downtown Phoenix, Arizona, where he is committed to gospel-centered ministry and multi-ethnic community transformation. A graduate of Princeton University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Vermon is also a thought leader in the areas of racial reconciliation and justice within the church. He is the author of Dearly Beloved and serves with The Gospel Coalition, contributing to national conversations on Christian ethics, leadership, and urban ministry. Through preaching, mentoring, and public engagement, Vermon fosters a church culture grounded in both biblical truth and restorative action. Get full access to Disarming Leviathan: Missionary to Christian Nationalists at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe