Straight Up

Jacqueline Wilson's GIRLS books were a defining part of our childhoods, so how does the author's 20-years-on sequel (for adults!) match up? We discuss whether the books were a good influence and how her real life inspired her writing. Also this week, we dissect all the juiciest bits from Anna Wintour's Vogue doc, and question how 'guilty' Matthew Perry's long-time assistant was in his death. Plus, a round-up of our fave TV shows, and whether star ratings matter.Huge thanks to our sponsor Yonder, the incredible lifestyle credit card packed with rewards you’ll actually *want* to use, from points to use towards your bill at the trendiest restaurants and bars in the UK, to experiences from the theatre to flights. Find out more at yonder.com/straightupSubject to eligibility. 18+ and UK Residents Only. T&C's apply. We're also thrilled to be partnered with brand new quarterly newspaper The Pass, the only publication bold enough to ignore food influencer hype and give us properly honest London restaurant reviews. Subscribe here to receive the new issue and find out what to cross off, and put on, your list.DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!There are still virtual tickets to our event next Thurs (26th) with the Trouble Club! Use our code STRAIGHTUP50 for 50% off!Reccs/ culture discussed:  Think Again by Jacqueline Wilson (the ‘Girls’ series follow up) Jacqueline Wilson: the children’s author who’s now writing graphic sex for adults, The Times Jacqueline Wilson’s girls seem depressingly unable to grow up, The Telegraph  In Vogue: The 90s, Disney+ In Vogue: The 90s review – Anna Wintour and pals offer up hour after hour of fabulous nothingness, Guardian In Vogue: The 90s review — proof of Anna Wintour’s pulling power, The Times Anna Wintour: The Biography, by Amy Odell Confessions of former Vogue assistants, Amy Odell’s Back Row (Substack) Did Matthew Perry’s Assistant Have a Choice? Hollywood Veterans Aren’t So Sure, Vanity Fair Why being a celebrity assistant is truly the worst job in Hollywood, Telegraph  The Assistant, BFI Player Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Disney + How To Die Alone, Disney + We Might Regret This, BBC Nightsleeper, BBC Colin from Accounts, BBC Slow Horses, Apple TV English Teacher, Disney+ Cooking for People, Mike Davies  Cook As You Are, Ruby Tandoh Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nicole Kidman’s badly-behaved-billionaires thriller The Perfect Couple is no1 on Netflix but we are divided! Kathleen loved it, Ellie didn’t, so we hash it out…(no spoilers!) and look forward to Kidman’s VERY racy film Babygirl. On that note, is The Times right to say that women’s ’dirty talk’ has become big business in pop culture? Gillian Anderson might agree: the star has just published an anonymous collection of sexual fantasies from women around the country, and Ellie reads out her, um, favourites. Plus: we dissect whether that viral Travis/Taylor ‘breakup contract’ can possibly be real, and Kathleen recommends a heartbreaking but empowering new podcast about fertility from our fellow pod hunnies at Shameless. Huge thanks to our sponsor Yonder, the incredible lifestyle credit card that allows you to collect points for every pound you spend and then redeem at amazing local restaurants and bars, as well as against experiences like theatre tickets (such as Shifters!), online shopping and more. Plus, worldwide travel insurance and no fees abroad. DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Reccs/ culture discussed: Kaos, Netflix Jeff Goldblum is a tracksuit-wearing Zeus in Netflix’s Greek myth series, Financial Times Shifters, Duke of York theatre  Little Violet Door, Soho  The Bear S3, Disney +    How Kylie Jenner Won At Fashion, Family And Dating On The DL,  British Vogue  The Perfect Couple, Netflix She just unravels so beautifully’: how Nicole Kidman conquered the world – then kept on going, The Observer  A Family Affair, Netflix  Babygirl (out Jan 10) Substance (out Sept 20) WANT by Gillian Anderson Kinky sex — what a turn-off! Gillian Anderson’s sexual fantasy book, review in The Times Cat Brushing, Jane Campbell How women talking dirty became big business, The Times Submit, anon  All Fours, Miranda July  Cleavage, Cleo Watson  Erotic audio platforms Quinn and Dipsea Living With Yourself, Netflix  Glass podcast, Shameless Media  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We didn’t think celeb breakups could get bigger than Maya and Stormzy, or Bennifer, but now Molly Mae and Tommy Fury have just proven that this very much is the year of the celeb breakup (and it’s killing us!!). We try to understand why we’re all taking it so personally, and assess the very icky rumours surrounding Tommy’s recent trip to Macedonia as well as the friction between Molly’s boss bitch success and the Fury’s traditional values. We’re also devo to report that our faves Barry Keoghan and Sabrina Carpenter may have joined the heartbreak train. Plus, Ellie gives us the verdict on Zoe Kravitz’s buzzy directorial debut Blink Twice, a sinister horror film seemingly inspired by Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘paedo island’. And of course we had to debrief on Dolly Aderton’s interview with the Sunday Times (anyone else have a Dolly Google Alert..?).Enjoy hunnys! And we're on a one-week break next week but back straight after - dive into our archive while you wait!DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partner Whitebox Cocktails, who make the tastiest canned cocktails we have ever tried, from Maragritas and Negronis, frozen Martinis to Old Fashioneds. GET 20% OFF with our code SU20 at⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://whiteboxcocktails.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠Reccs Short N’Sweet by Sabrina Carpenter Chicken Shop Date with Sabrina Carpenter, YouTube At Home with the Furys, Netflix Dolly Alderton on fashion: There’s more fun to be had in heels, The Times (and have a listen to our big Dolly Alderton deepdive from Nov 2023!) Blink Twice (in cinemas) Blink Twice is guilty of a vile horror trope, Slate  Promising Young Woman, Amazon Prime Video The Lost City, Netflix Inside Out 2, Disney + Big Boys, Channel 4 The Conversation We Should Be Having Around It Ends With Us, The CutWe are so excited to have finally announced our live event with The Trouble Club on 26th September at The Dally in Islington. Get your ticket for £15 with the code STRAIGHTUP50 here, or a virtual ticket for £7: ⁠⁠https://www.thetroubleclub.com/events/straight-up-live-podcast-recording⁠⁠ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re talking books this week, hunnies, as what better time of year than to get stuck into some summer reads than holiday szn? From the hottest books of 2024 (think: Butter, Blue Sisters and Brotherless Night) to the all-time faves we're still thinking about years on, these are the titles we suggest adding to your bucket-list immediately. Thank you so much for your reccs so far, we've added the ones we didn't get a chance to talk about today below and will keep on ploughing through, please do send more! We are so excited to have finally announced our live event with The Trouble Club on 26th September at The Dally in Islington. Get your ticket for £15 with the code STRAIGHTUP50 here: https://www.thetroubleclub.com/events/straight-up-live-podcast-recordingDM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Whitebox Cocktails, who make the tastiest canned cocktails we have ever tried, from Maragritas and Negronis, frozen Martinis to Old Fashioneds. GET 20% OFF with our code SU20 at⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://whiteboxcocktails.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠Incite Nutrition, a UK based supplement company making our favourite Vitamin D spray and biotin (plus marine collagen and lots more). Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. GET 15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://amzn.to/4eY4odu⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Books / culture discussed: Butter by Asako Yuzuki  Slutty Chef column, Vogue  Blue Sisters by Coco Mellors Banal Nightmare by Halle Butler  Brotherless Night by V. V. Ganeshananthan A Little Dust on the Eyes by Minoli Salgado  Anil’s Ghost by Michael Ondaatje  The Island of the Missing Trees by Elif Shafak 10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World by Elif Shafak  Shuggie Bain by Douglas Stuart  Young Mungo by Douglas Stuart  Sociopath: A Memoir by Patric Gagnee  Kill Your Friends by John Niven  The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson Reach For the Stars by Michael Cragg Educated by Tara Westover How Lucky Blue and Nara Aziza Smith Made Viral Internet Fame From Scratch, GQ The School for Good Mothers by Jessamine Chan What Tweens Get from Sephora and What They Get from Us, Jia Tolentino for the New Yorker No one is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood  The Unwilding by Marina Kemp  You Are Here by David Nicholls Us by David Nicholls The Husbands by Holly Gramazio  Sandwich by Catherine Newman  A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers Margot’s Got Money Troubles by Rufi Thorpe Caledonian Road by Andrew O’Hagen  Doppelganger by Naomi Klein Experience by Kate Young  Mrs S by K Patrick Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everyone’s talking about ‘It Ends With Us’ atm, huns, as some very bizarre things seem to be going down on the film’s press tour, with rumours of a feud between stars Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. We get into it all, from the Colleen Hoover book it’s based on, to the allegations of bad behaviour from both Blake and Justin. And what’s with the way it’s being promoted? Also this week, we recommend a fab new show about a woman who travels to parallel universes when she orgasms, Slip. We review ‘Babes’, a pregnancy comedy that was touted as the ‘new Bridesmaids’ (wtf?). And debrief on Hunter Schafer’s Call Her Daddy Interview. Given her Euphoria update, we dissect the recent Hollywood Reporter investigation into what’s really happening with the show and its controversial creator Sam Levinson.Head to ⁠pfeffersal.com ⁠for more on the world-leading facials we review in this episode, with packages that save you money on your treatments. Buy 3 treatments, receive the fourth half price. Buy 5 treatments, receive the sixth for free.See Pfeffer Sal's ⁠FAQ page⁠ for more. Find Pfeffer Sal on Insta ⁠@pfeffersal⁠ and the gorgeous clinic at The Stables, 10B Warren Mews, London W1T 6BY.DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Whitebox Cocktails, who make the tastiest canned cocktails we have ever tried, from Maragritas and Negronis, frozen Martinis to Old Fashioneds. GET 20% OFF with our code SU20 at⁠⁠ ⁠https://whiteboxcocktails.com/⁠⁠⁠Incite Nutrition, a UK based supplement company making our favourite Vitamin D spray and biotin (plus marine collagen and lots more). Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. GET 15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://amzn.to/4eY4odu⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Reccos/culture discussed: Babes (2024) Passages (2023) Slip, ITVX  The Instigators, Apple TV It Ends with Us (in cinemas now) It Ends with Us by Colleen Hoover (book) Hunter Schafer on Call Her Daddy  How Hunter Schafer Became ‘A Badass Thriller Bad Bitch’, Rolling Stone What’s Ailing ‘Euphoria’? Tragedy and Trauma Inside TV’s Buzziest Show, Hollywood Reporter Stealing Girlhood: The Legacy of Women's Work Being Stolen, Final Girl Studios YouTube Inside The Cult of the Far Right, The Newsagents What Do The Riots Say About Britain? Ash Sarkar, Aaron Bastani and Rivkah Brown Discuss, Novara Media YouTube Death of England: The Plays, Soho Place theatre Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Charli XCX and Billie Eilish’s new collab might just be the hottest song of the summer – and we are here for it! We get into all the discourse surrounding the pop culture-dominating duo: from BRAT and Charli’s birthday party to Billie’s insane charisma and those absurd queer-baiting allegations. Next, we debrief on the Suki Waterhouse Vogue cover and Ryan Reynolds on Chicken Shop Date, before running through some of the best new TV series we’ve seen. My Lady Jane, a hilarious revisionist comedy recommended by lots of you lovely listeners, Dirty Pop: The Boy Band Scam, about the con-man behind the Backstreet Boys and N’Sync, and, of course, a quick debrief on the House of the Dragon finale. Also this week: we return to one of the most inescapable topics of 2024, age gap relationships, as Leonardo DiCaprio appears to have broken his ‘25 and under only’ rule with Vittoria Ceretti, and a 21-year-old British influencer comes under fire for having a 16-year-old boyfriend. DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Whitebox Cocktails, who make the tastiest canned cocktails we have ever tried. We keep drinking our fave classic Margarita on air, but they stock everything from frozen Martinis to Old Fashioneds. GET 20% OFF with our code SU20 at ⁠https://whiteboxcocktails.com/⁠Incite Nutrition, a UK based supplement company making our favourite Vitamin D spray and biotin (plus marine collagen and lots more). Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. GET 15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at⁠⁠ ⁠https://amzn.to/4eY4odu⁠⁠⁠ Culture discussed:  May December (see our age gaps ep from Nov ‘23 for more)  Glen Powell’s meteoric rise proves audiences don’t actually care about age gaps, Independent  Guess (remix) featuring Billie Eilish by Charli xcx  Twisters (2024) Amelia Dimoldenberg What’s in My Bag, Vogue Miranda Kerr, What’s in my Bag, Vogue  Phoning It In, Billie Eilish, Elle  Suki Waterhouse On Her Wild Ride From London It-Girl To LA Mum, British Vogue Chicken Shop Date with Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman, YouTube He’s So Annoying: For years, being “sexy” didn’t work for Ryan Reynolds, Vulture Longlegs (2024) It Follows (2014) Dirty Pop: The Boy Band Scam, Netflix My Lady Jane, Amazon Prime Video House of the Dragon, HBO How House of the Dragon’s Ewan Mitchell became TV’s most chilling villain, the Times Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How much should a journalist impose their own judgement in an interview? That’s the row raging on social media this week, after the Times published a profile of mega-influencer Hannah Neeleman, better known by her handle and business name ‘Ballerina Farm’. Writer Megan Agnew spent a day at Ballerina Farm in Utah with ‘queen of the tradwives’ Hannah, her eight kids, and husband Daniel, exploring the complexities of her ‘homemaker’ life as a Mormon mother. Is this important journalism exposing the underbelly of the ‘tradwife’ movement and a blatant case of coercive control? Or is it, as some have argued, a ‘hit piece’ with a ‘toxic’ faux-feminist agenda? We examine the many contradictions at the heart of this conversation, along with the rise of the Mormon influencer and the pro-natalist movement (ew, Elon Musk). Also, our verdict on the new Netflix Simone Biles documentary in time for the Olympics, Josh O’Connor’s incredible film La Chinera, which has just landed on streaming, and Apple TV’s Lady in the Lake starring Natalie Portman.Ps: Please leave us some recommendations for uplifting books for August! We need happy content!!DM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at ⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Whitebox Cocktails, who make the tastiest canned cocktails we have ever tried. We were drinking our fave classic Margarita on air but they stock everything from frozen Martinis to Old Fashioneds. GET 20% OFF with our code SU20 at https://whiteboxcocktails.com/Incite Nutrition, which is a UK based supplement company that makes the best and tiniest biotin which has given Ellie the healthiest nails of her life. Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. GET 15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at⁠ ⁠https://amzn.to/4eY4odu⁠⁠ Reccs discussed:  Simone Biles Rising, Netflix Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children), the Times My day with the trad wife queen and what it taught me, the Times Trad Wives: The influencers selling 1950s house-wife life, The Story podcast for the Times Meet the influencers repackaging the Mormon dream, Hunger La Chimera, Amazon Prime  Lady in the Lake, Apple TV Land of Women, Apple TV Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Maya Jama and Stormzy’s sad but beautiful breakup statement had to be the first port of call today, huns, as obviously we have been trying desperately to reconcile ourselves with their shock separation. Why are we still surprised that social media doesn’t paint a full picture of relationships? Next, we review The Jetty, Jenna Coleman’s new BBC police thriller, before recommending two recent Netflix shows we have absolutely loved, albeit in very different ways. First, the incredible superhero drama Supacell by Rapman, which has a 100% score on Rotten Tomatoes. And second, the compelling but creepy four-part documentary The Man With 1000 Kids, about the world’s most prolific sperm donor. Also this week: Adidas has apologised to Bella Hadid after putting her in an unbelievably negligent campaign for its new ‘it-shoe’. How can an ad this ill-advised and damaging possibly have slipped through the net? We examine why on earth this keeps happening, reflecting on other recent horrifying brand missteps from Bumble to Balenciaga. Reccs discussed:  The Dakota hotel Manchester Erst Manchester Bar Levan and Levan Peckham The Jetty, BBC One Wilderness, Amazon Prime Video Supacell, Netflix  Delaney Rowe on TikTok  Attack The Block, Netflix  Shiro’s Story, YouTube/LinkUpTV Blue Story, BBC iPlayer The Man With 1000 kids, Netflix  The Lady in the Lake, Apple TVDM us your thoughts on Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or email us at hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Incite Nutrition, which is a UK based supplement company that makes the best and tiniest biotin which has given Ellie the healthiest nails of her life. Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. Get 15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at ⁠https://amzn.to/4eY4odu⁠London Nootropics, our fave adaptogenic coffee that naturally boosts mental clarity and physical energy, while also easing anxiety, all without any of coffee's usual jitters. Get 20% OFF with the DISCOUNT CODE straightup at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠londonnootropics.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What was Katy Perry thinking making a female empowerment anthem with one of music’s most problematic men, Dr Luke? We discuss the absolute flop that is the pop star’s comeback song Woman’s World. Much more inspiring is Zara McDermott’s courageous statement following the shocking abuse she endured on last year’s Strictly from her dance partner Graziano di Prima. Why does the performing arts world normalise extreme behaviour? Also this week: a snappy but hilarious tangent on the rumours that profesh celebrity BFF Derek Blasberg had an accident in Gwyneth Paltrow’s bed. Apparently, their friendship may never recover. And finally, we investigate the ‘cheating’ slash ‘PR relationship’ drama between rapper Central Cee, TIkToker Madeline Argy and rapper Ice Spice: is it the best marketing ploy the music industry has seen in years? Reccos discussed: Katy Perry, Woman’s World review, Guardian  Katy Perry, Woman’s World review, Pitchfork  Scat’s Out the Bag, Popbitch  TAR  Whiplash Black Swan  Did it First by Central Cee and Ice Spice  Madeleine Argy on Call Her Daddy podcast  14 Celebs Who Admitted To Fake Relationships And Other Publicity Stunts For Attention, Buzzfeed The Jetty, BBC One DM us your thoughts on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠, and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partners:  Incite Nutrition, which is a UK based supplement company that makes the best and tiniest biotin which has given Ellie the healthiest nails of her life. Incredibly reasonably priced and amazing quality. Get  15% OFF via Amazon with the code STRAIGHTUP at https://amzn.to/4eY4oduLondon Nootropics, our fave adaptogenic coffee that naturally boosts mental clarity and physical energy, while also easing anxiety, all without any of coffee's usual jitters. Get 20% OFF with the DISCOUNT CODE straightup at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠londonnootropics.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why have we normalised celebrities abusing their power? This week we are joined by fellow journo and fab friend Olivia Petter to talk about celebrity narcissism, manipulation, power trips and industry open secrets. It's right on theme with her excellent debut novel Gold Rush, which explores the dark consequences of when Rose, a 20-something single woman working in the press office for a magazine publisher in London, spends the night with the most famous man on the planet. It's a gripping exploration of power, consent and celebrity, add it to your summer reading list right now! Ps: we are taking a one week break next week as Kathleen is getting married! Normal service resumes 18 July :)DM us your thoughts on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠, and as ever please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, lysm!Thanks so much to our amazing partner London Nootropics, our fave adaptogenic coffee that naturally boosts mental clarity and physical energy, while also easing anxiety, all without any of coffee's usual jitters. Get 20% OFF with the DISCOUNT CODE straightup at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠londonnootropics.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Reccos: One Taste, Bloomberg One Taste, Netflix American Nightmare, Netflix  Baby Reindeer, Netflix Painful Lessons podcast (Armie Hammer) Spacey Unmasked, Channel 4 Jeanne du Barry (Depp film) Who Trolled Amber? Podcast, Tortoise Media Unbelievable, Netflix Freedom, and Corrections, both by Jonathan Franzen  Joe Alwyn profile The Sunday Times Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.