
Vertical Playpen
Want to learn more about Adventure and Experiential Education? Then this podcast is for you!
Listeners of this podcast will get;
- Adventure Programming Theory
- Facilitation Tips
- Activity Ideas
- Industry Career Advice
- Interviews from Industry Professionals
High 5 Adventure Learning Center is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to helping individuals, teams, schools, communities and businesses improve the way they live, learn and work together. Connect with us at high5adventure.org
Latest episodes

Mar 7, 2023 • 14min
Sunglasses, Clothing and Professionalism
In this episode Phil and Lisa discuss two topics related to professionalism: the misconception that wearing sunglasses can make someone appear less capable as a facilitator and the complexities of clothing and professionalism. We challenge the assumption about sunglasses and talk about how biases can shape perceptions of competence and authority. Tune in to challenge assumptions and navigate what it means to be a professional. Trevor Noah discussing professional work atire - https://youtu.be/2Qn9d5rrEhk Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Feb 28, 2023 • 23min
Hours, Years and Ego
In this episode, Phil delves into the problem of ego in trainers and educators, where this might come from and the impact it can have on their ability to teach effectively. We also hear from High 5's Founding Director Jim Grout as he tells a story that highlights the problem that ego can have on those who teach. Phil then explores the idea that simply having years of experience or putting in long hours does not necessarily result in competency.

Feb 21, 2023 • 23min
ACCT Conference 2023 - 5 Takeaways
In this episode, Phil brings you insights from the recent Association for Challenge Course Technology conference. Here are his five key takeaways: People from all over the world attended the conference, and the connections made are incredibly valuable. Highlights from the 2 workshops that he presented. What Portland was like?....spoiler...we never really left the conference area! The importance of what makes a qualified course professional was discussed at length, emphasizing the need for a rigorous curriculum, experienced instructors and the need to share and collaborate. We are excited to bring you interviews with some of the new folks we met at the conference. Find out more about the KYOOB - https://store.high5adventure.org/collections/high-5-products/products/kyoob Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman

Feb 14, 2023 • 9min
Navigating Group Dynamics While Belaying
In this episode, we explore the art of balancing group dynamics and safety when belaying on a ropes course while also respecting the participants awareness of tasks that are purely for behavior management. Notes from Lisa Hunt. This exchange happened somewhere back around 2001, and I wrote it up shortly thereafter with Ken’s input: The question of how to engage the most number of students at a time on a challenge course is one that is often raised in workshops. A common approach is involving people (students) in the tasks of operations to “keep them busy.” Years ago, my co-leader during a workshop differentiated these tasks as “real jobs” and “fake jobs,” and challenged participants to consider the implications of both on student behavior and growth, as well as program quality over all. That co-leader is Ken Demas, Veteran Physical Education teacher, former Project Adventure Trainer, coach, Board Chair at NYSAHPERD, Coordinator of Adventure and an Associate Prof. at Hofstra University – an important mentor to me. That conversation has come with me to so many subsequent workshops, and I wanted to go back to the source to hear more about Ken’s experience and thoughts. He has generously expanded this question here: Fake Jobs—Real Jobs: As you may recall, one of the things I did for about 16-17 years, was to act as a consultant for NY Insurance Reciprocal. One of the adventure cases I reviewed involved too many spotters, not too few. In an effort to involve more students at low elements, teachers would over involve students in spotting jobs. One case in particular occurred at the rear of the “Wall”. The teacher had used it as the culminating activity for the low element portion of the adventure unit. Because the entire class was involved, the teacher had placed 6 spotters at the ladder at the rear of the Wall. When a student started to descend, she missed the step and fell backwards. Everyone was responsible and at the same time no one was responsible. No one moved. Too crowded?? Not engaged?? Not important enough?? Too many involved and therefore not a REAL JOB. Students need to be invested in the job. See a real need for it. Understand that what they are doing is important to the success and safety of the individual or individuals involve. Too many spotters diminishes the significance of what they are doing. With this concept in mind, we fall into the same problem when we assemble a belay team. A belayer, a back-up and when needed, an anchor should be more than adequate to manage a climber. My least favorite bogus job is that of rope tender. I fully understand that it might look like a real job, but the kids know it is not. Has anyone taught the rope handler how to coil the rope or flake it out so that when the climber descends it does not foul in the hands of the belayer? Probably not. Couldn’t the back-up do this job if taught properly? The use of the Australian Back-up Belay involve kids in Real Jobs. The facilitator as a ropes course manager, can engage more students in a meaningful way. Properly trained belayers can determine whether or not the need an anchor. What weight differential is needed? How does their position, whether near or far, alter the shear on the belay system and therefore alter resistance. Make the job more than that of a counter weight. When the manager has competently train belayers, they have the opportunity to open more activities and thus engage more students. A good technique I used, required that student to make journal entries right after completing a climb. Belayers were also encouraged to make entries during class. Course design should be considered. I mixed Australian with traditional belays. Grigri set-up with competent kids and teams and I would belay Pamper pole events. I was always positioned to see and control whichever elements were being used. Some folks might find this overwhelming. But, my department at the middle school found that it worked. Note from Lisa: Ken Demas passed away in May of 2017. He was a “once in a lifetime” kind of mentor. At his memorial service, I met so many people who saw him in that same light. He is deeply missed, and his adventuresome spirit and his questions of me continue to help me grow. Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Feb 7, 2023 • 9min
Perfecting Your Belay Technique
In this episode, we delve into some fundamentals of belaying. We cover the importance of maintaining a good belay stance, keeping both hands on the brake strand of the rope at all times, and enhancing your lowering techniques. Good belaying is the cornerstone of climbing safety, and a solid understanding of these basic principles can make a big difference in both your facilitator experience and your participant's sense of security. Whether you're a seasoned belayer or just starting out, this episode is packed with valuable information and practical tips to help you belay with confidence. Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Jan 31, 2023 • 17min
The Co-facilitation Advantage
How often do you get the opportunity to co-facilitate during your programs? This is the topic of discussion in this episode, with Phil joined by colleagues Anne-Louise, Ryan, Chris and Lisa. What started as a question about how we learned to facilitate turned into a discussion on the benefits of co-facilitating and how that has had such an impact on our abilities over the years. Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Jan 24, 2023 • 31min
Training In England - Part 2 | Steve Woods
Here is part 2 of the conversation between Phil and Steve Woods. In this episode the following was discussed; - How long trainings should last - Thoughts on protecting the trainees - How to assess trainee competency - Facilitated programming vs commercialism - Measuring program success - The British belay technique with a catchy name. Learn more about Vertex - https://www.vertex-training.co.uk/ Join the High 5 Training Team - https://high5adventure.org/job/full-time-adventure-educator-trainer/ Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Jan 17, 2023 • 25min
Training in England - Part 1 | Steve Woods
What are the differences between being a trainer in the US vs the UK? This was a question submitted to me by one of our listeners, so we reached out to Steve Woods, the Technical Director at Vertex Instructor Training, which is based in England, to see what differences and what similarities there are between us. This is a 2 part episode and in this part we discuss - - Training newer practitioners - Growing in the industry thanks to influential facilitators - What is the essential component of a successful training Learn more about Vertex - https://www.vertex-training.co.uk/ Join the High 5 Training Team - https://high5adventure.org/job/full-time-adventure-educator-trainer/ Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Jan 10, 2023 • 19min
Activity Repetition
What are the pros and cons to repeating activities? How do you handle participants who have experienced the activities before? These questions (and more) and discussed in this episode and Phil, Lisa, Chris and Jim discuss activity repetition. Tinker Book - https://store.high5adventure.org/collections/books-digital-resources/products/tinker-building-purposeful-experiences-from-classic-adventure-activities Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson

Jan 3, 2023 • 21min
Activity Modifications | Jeff Dutko
What are some of the elements that are important to consider when modifying activities for your participants? Guest Host Rich Keegan chats with his friend and past colleague Jeff Dutko to discuss this very topic. Jeff has worked for many years at the Gengras Center - find more information here - https://www.gengrascenter.org/ Music and Sound effects - epidemicsound.com Intro music - I've Found My Way by Hallman Bridge music - This is the Right Time by Orjan Karlsson