Leading Complexity

In this special episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, things take an unexpected turn — The host Tomas hands over the interviewing part to Portia Tong, who interviews him instead.Together, they explore the story behind the Leading Complexity Program — how a simple idea about creating a new kind of organizational “operating system” grew into a global learning movement.Tomas shares how conversations with thought leaders like David Marquet, Stephen Bungay, and Dave Snowden sparked the first event, and how it has evolved into a space for deep learning, inspiration, and authentic connection.You’ll hear reflections on:The origins and purpose of the Leading Complexity programWhy sharing knowledge freely matters more than everWhat participants gain from learning directly from the world’s top thinkersThis episode is full of warmth, curiosity, and honest reflection —a rare behind-the-scenes look at what drives the people behind the Leading Complexity program.

Listen to Linda Rising on Why Smart Groups Can Make Dumb DecisionsIn this episode, we welcome back Linda Rising, researcher and author known for her work on decision-making, groups, and organizations.We explore why bringing very smart people together doesn’t always lead to smart outcomes – and how science shows that homogeneous teams often make worse decisions, limit innovation, and fall into dangerous group dynamics.Linda shares scientific insights on:- How to build groups for better results- Why diversity is a strength – even when it feels uncomfortable- How our Stone Age brains still shape decision-making today- The risks of “culture fit” and why sameness is a trapAn eye-opening conversation that challenges the way we think about leadership, teamwork, and decision-making.Listen and reflect: how can you create more intelligent groups in your own organization?

In this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, Michael Göthe sits down with James Priest, co-developer of Sociocracy 3.0 and one of the world’s leading facilitators of collaboration and decision making.We explore how leaders can act with more purpose in today’s complex organizations, and why misaligned purposes often create wasted energy and frustration. James introduces the Purposeful Action Model — a simple yet powerful lens to:✅ Improve sensemaking and meaning making✅ Align local actions with organizational purpose✅ Reduce waste and increase coherence across all levels✅ Navigate complexity with more consciousness and intentionalityWe also touch on the evolution of Sociocracy 3.0, the pitfalls of one-size-fits-all agile transformations, and the role of AI in supporting organizational coherence.🔹 Full program details: https://leadingcomplexity.com/program/🔹 Join us at Leading Complexity 2025: https://leadingcomplexity.com📅 James’ live session: October 23, 2025📍 Plus: meet him in person at Crisp, Stockholm, November 5–7, for the S3 Practitioner Course.👉 Subscribe to the channel for more interviews with world-class thinkers on leadership, complexity, and the future of organizations.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, Michael Göthe sits down with Sam Isaacson — executive coach, consultant, author, and founder of AI Coach.Sam is a pioneer in applying AI to coaching and leadership. In the conversation, he shares: • How he first predicted the potential of GPT-3 for coaching back in 2020• What’s possible (and what’s not) with AI coaches today • The difference between human presence and AI capability in coaching • How AI can supercharge learning and development without losing the human touch • Practical examples of using AI to automate tasks, create “virtual colleagues,” and support team collaboration✨ Sam is also a speaker in the Leading Complexity 2025 program with his session:👉 Using AI to Supercharge Learning & Development. If you’re curious about the future of leadership, coaching, and human-AI collaboration, this episode is for you.📌 Learn more and join the program: https://leadingcomplexity.com📌 Connect with Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samisaacson📌 Try Sam’s free AI coaching platform: https://ai.coach.chat

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, Tomas Björkholm sits down with Nils Janse, co-founder of Bandley AI, author of "AI Agents: Multiplying Human Potential by Adopting Generative AI"Nils has trained thousands of people and worked with over 200 companies to help them adopt generative AI. In this conversation, he shares:* Why leaders should lean in to AI instead of hesitating* The difference between automation and augmentation – and why augmentation is key* How AI agents can empower employees to become “superheroes” instead of replacements* What leaders need to rethink to succeed in the AI era* How decision-making will change when humans collaborate with AI agentsIf you want to understand how AI will transform leadership, teamwork, and organizations, this is a must-watch!

SummaryIn this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, Michael Göthe interviews Jurgen Appelo, an influential figure in management and agile practices. They discuss Jurgen's journey from focusing on management to exploring the intersection of AI and human collaboration. Jurgen introduces the concept of 'networked agentic organizations' and emphasizes the importance of understanding the human angle in AI integration. The conversation delves into the evolving role of leadership in AI-driven environments, the complexities of modern work, and the future of agile practices. Jurgen shares insights on how AI can enhance team dynamics and the necessity for leaders to adapt to these changes.TakeawaysJurgen Appelo has evolved from focusing on management to exploring AI's impact on organizations.AI is reshaping the role of managers and leaders in organizations.The concept of 'networked agentic organizations' combines human and AI collaboration.Leaders must distinguish between managing humans and machines.AI can handle complicated tasks, leaving complex problems for humans.Team sizes are shrinking as AI becomes integral to collaboration.Leaders need to develop skills to handle complex, unsolvable problems.AI can provide real-time feedback on team dynamics and individual contributions.The future of agile practices will focus on speed and adaptability rather than rigid structures.AI will push organizations towards greater agility and responsiveness.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm sits down with Dr. Jeff Sutherland – co-founder of Scrum, co-author of the Agile Manifesto, creator of Scrum@Scale, and author of Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time.Jeff shares his thoughts on:Why much of today’s Agile is still “bad Agile” – and why it might even be getting worse.How AI is transforming the way teams work, and why pairing with AI is becoming a must for survival in the job market.The role of Scrum Masters and Product Owners in a future where humans and AI collaborate.Why Scrum@Scale outperforms other scaling frameworks, with real-world examples from companies like John Deere and Rocket Mortgage.His vision of Agile in the age of AI, including evolving practices, minimum bureaucracy, and the need for constant learning.This is not just a conversation about frameworks – it’s about the future of work, complexity, and how to thrive when technology changes faster than ever.

In this conversation, Portia Tung and Michael Göthe explore the significance of play in leadership and organizational culture. Portia shares her journey from a technical background to becoming The Play Alchemist and an agile coach, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe and playful environment for effective leadership. They discuss the concept of 'true play,' the five attributes of playful leadership, and how integrating play into daily work can enhance creativity and productivity. The conversation also delves into the science of play and flow, highlighting how play can be a powerful tool for learning and adaptation in complex systems.Portia Tung is The Play Alchemist, Executive Agile coach and founder of The School of Play – inspired by her dream of happier adulthood through lifelong play.Find out more about Portia on here website – https://www.theschoolofplay.org/For upcoming courses including the Playful Leadership programme - https://theschoolofplay.org/courses/

How to Lead and Not Be Led by AI in Complexity — with Jonathan ReamsIn this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, we sit down with long-time Crisp collaborator Jonathan Reams — leadership researcher, teacher, and consultant. Jonathan integrates adult development, complexity science, and leadership practice to explore the frontiers of how leaders can grow in an AI-powered world.We talk about his session for Leading Complexity 2025: “How to Lead and Not Be Led by AI in Complexity.” Jonathan shares why leaders must accelerate their own growth to make wise use of AI, rather than risk being controlled by it — and what practical steps can help leaders thrive in complexity.👉 Learn more about the program at leadingcomplexity.com

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Samraaj Bath, CEO of Ion Design and a two-time Y Combinator founder.In this interview, Samraaj shares:His journey from professional dancer to tech entrepreneurHow Ion Design’s AI agent Ruby is changing product design inside SlackInsights on leadership, building AI companies, and staying ahead of rapid industry changeWhy aligning vision, incentives, and curiosity is key to building strong teamsIon Design: https://ion.designLearn more about the Leading Complexity program: https://leadingcomplexity.com/If you’re interested in AI, startups, or the future of product design, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.Don’t forget to subscribe for more conversations with leaders shaping the future of work.