Leading Saints Podcast

Tony Overbay is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, a Certified Mindful Habit Coach, and a popular motivational speaker. Tony regularly speaks at corporate training events, schools, and churches in formal and casual settings mixing humor, clinical experience, his Christian faith, and a wealth of personal stories gleaned from years of helping others achieve their goals. This is part 2 of a 2-part podcast discussion. Listen to Part 1 here. Highlights 03:20 Tony shares experiences people have had with a very harsh stake president 12:25 Leaders or sometimes therapists hand people a list of things to do in order to overcome addictions or whatever it may be. But what happens when checking off those boxes doesn’t help? 13:50 Typically people go into the bishop’s office with the energy of shame. The bishop needs to diffuse that energy. People should also consider other people they can talk to besides the Bishop. 18:00 A good question to ask an individual is, “Who do you feel comfortable talking to?” 19:30 Tony breaks down shame and where it comes from 24:50 We feel shame when we are unable to overcome certain behaviors or addictions. However, we are approaching it in the wrong way. We need to dive deeper into why we are doing what we are doing. 25:40 Tony shares his own personal experience on being human and making mistakes. We need to give ourselves a break because we are all just human having human experiences. 29:20 Leadership and narcissism. Too often people are throwing out the word narcissist when dealing with a difficult person. 30:45 What is narcissism? Where does it come from? 38:20 There is a healthy level of narcissism in all of us 40:20 We most often see narcissism in a negative light. There is also normal healthy narcissism. That could also be called a normal healthy ego or your sense of self. 44:10 Pathological defensive narcissism 53:30 Jesus had a healthy ego. He had a full understanding of His identity. 55:45 Tony explains confabulation 1:02:00 Dealing with narcissistic leaders 1:04:15 Internal validation versus external validation 1:12:30 There isn’t much we can do about a narcissistic leader. What we can do is set our own boundaries. Links Part 1 of this podcast Unhealthy Ways We Seek Validation As Leaders | An Interview with Tony Overbay The Bishop’s Strongest Tools to Help Addicts | An Interview with Tony Overbay Tony's podcasts The Path Back: Overcoming Pornography The Magnetic Marriage Course Tony's PDF of James Fowler's Stages of Faith Development Stages of Faith: The Psychology of Human Development and the Quest for Meaning Why Am I the Last Person to Know What to Do with My Life? Am I the Narcissist? Exploring Narcissistic Traits and Tendencies Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Watch Tony's Leading Saints Live with 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast has ranked in the top 20 Christianity podcasts in iTunes, gets over 500,000 listens each month, and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help latter-day saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Tony Overbay is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, a Certified Mindful Habit Coach, and a popular motivational speaker. Tony regularly speaks at corporate training events, schools, and churches in formal and casual settings mixing humor, clinical experience, his Christian faith, and a wealth of personal stories gleaned from years of helping others achieve their goals. This is part 1 of a 2-part podcast discussion. Highlights 2:40 Introduction 5:30 Tony’s background and his story of becoming a therapist 13:50 Tony talks about his background helping people with pornography addictions. 17:00 Shame hasn’t helped anyone in their recovery from porn 18:45 Tony talks about the most common problems people come to him with 22:15 The types of clients that Tony normally works with 25:45 Tony explains how he helps his clients and how a lot of times it leads to the topic of emotional immaturity and narcissism 28:00 Tony’s new podcast, Waking Up to Narcissism 31:15 Is it easier for people to walk into a therapist’s office or a bishop’s office? 34:30 Tony shares an experience he had training Bishops in his stake about Fowler's stages of faith and his 4 pillars of a connected conversation. He shares what he thinks bishops should know and understand when trying to help people. Links PART 2 of this podcast Unhealthy Ways We Seek Validation As Leaders | An Interview with Tony Overbay The Bishop’s Strongest Tools to Help Addicts | An Interview with Tony Overbay Tony's podcasts The Path Back: Overcoming Pornography The Magnetic Marriage Course Tony's PDF of James Fowler's Stages of Faith Development Stages of Faith: The Psychology of Human Development and the Quest for Meaning Why Am I the Last Person to Know What to Do with My Life? Am I the Narcissist? Exploring Narcissistic Traits and Tendencies Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Watch Tony's Leading Saints Live with 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast has ranked in the top 20 Christianity podcasts in iTunes, gets over 500,000 listens each month, and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help latter-day saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Emma Larsen is a Senior at Brigham Young University studying Theatre Education, works at the BYU Center for Teaching and Learning, and tutors English to Taiwanese students. She is also the author of the book, The New Kid: Finding Friendship and Belonging in the Face of Life Changes. Emma served in the Taiwan Taipei mission and has served as a Relief Society teacher, ward music chair, and sacrament meeting pianist. She is currently the Relief Society president in a young single adult ward in Provo, Utah. Highlights 03:15 Introduction to Emma Larsen 06:15 Emma talks about focusing on individuals and how she goes about doing that 07:15 What does a YSA member need to feel loved? 08:40 Ministering tips for wards with a lot of turnover 10:00 Ministering interviews. 11:40 Emma talks about her new book and why she wrote it 15:00 Her book is for new kids that are feeling alone but also for people to know what a new kid feels so that they can offer friendship and be more welcoming 15:30 Emma talks about what it was like to move constantly growing up. Moving into new wards and new schools and what she learned from it. 17:30 Emma’s advice to leaders on creating belonging in their wards and organizations 19:10 Emma shares her personal experience of how another young woman helped her feel like she belonged 21:00 As a leader, know people’s names. You might not be able to do and be everything but knowing people’s names helps them feel seen. 24:45 Remember that the little things are the big things. Doing the small things like learning names or asking someone to sit by you. 27:00 Diversity is under appreciated. We are all different and those differences are to be appreciated and cherished. 29:00 Everyone is a little selfish. Stop worrying about yourself and start looking outward. Links The New Kid: Finding Friendship and Belonging in the Face of Life Changes, by Emma Larsen How to Remember Everyone’s Name at Church | An Interview With Greg Clawson Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast has ranked in the top 20 Christianity podcasts in iTunes, gets over 500,000 listens each month, and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Roger Connors has worked in leadership consulting for over 35 years and is a graduate faculty professional member of Utah Valley University. He is also adjunct for the Woodbury School of Business MBA program, and a four-time New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. His most recent book is Divine Patterns: Seeking the Blessings of Heaven. Roger has served as president of the Kennewick, Washington mission, stake president and branch president in the Provo Missionary Training Center, and currently serves in a Provo young single adult stake presidency. Highlights 01:15 Introduction to the topic of patterns 01:30 Roger’s background in leadership 03:30 How can we have smoother transitions in leadership? Start with results. Know what you want to accomplish How do we get people to change their thinking? Create new and powerful experiences 07:20 Cognitive bias and but leading by the Spirit 12:00 How can we get people to change their thinking? 12:40 Real life examples of suspending belief bias from when Roger was a mission president 14:30 As leaders we keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results 15:00 Roger talks about his new book Divine Patterns: Seeking the Blessing of Heaven. He explains how patterns tell us what to do. Especially patterns in the scriptures. 16:50 Where do we start as leaders when we are trying to help someone? Roger suggests starting by identifying patterns that could help that person in their specific situation. 17:20 We need to be careful applying patterns where they don’t fit. For example, the 5 steps of repentance. 22:30 We don’t earn blessings, we qualify for them by doing what we can. It’s up to God to deliver what He sees is best for us. He will make sure that the right thing happens at the right time for us. 23:40 Promising blessings as a leader 26:50 You can have what you want or you can have something better. Remember that God’s will is always better. 30:00 When you give your life to God, He will make something out of you that you could never make out of yourself 30:40 Roger shares experiences of listening to two different apostles speak and the very different talks they gave about following the spirit 32:15 Hold on, continue faithful, and God will come through for you. Bind yourself to Jesus Christ. 33:20 Roger shares his own difficult experience of coming home early from being a mission president because he was diagnosed with cancer. Trials can make us feel like victims. Roger’s advice is to stop focusing on why it’s happening. The right question to ask is what? What should I do next? 35:00 The main takeaways from Roger’s book Be conscious of the patterns found in the scriptures to help yourself and others Trust in the Lord’s timing and His way 35:50 Roger shares his own personal experience of trusting God and following promptings 38:15 God wants to be involved in your life. As leaders we need to help people see the hand of the Lord is their lives. 40:00 Roger shares how to find patterns in the scriptures using Ether 12:6. He shares his own trial of faith. 42:50 More scriptural patterns. There are a lot of simple scriptures that have powerful concepts. 45:30 Remember that patterns are not formulas Links Divine Patterns: Seeking the Blessings of Heaven Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast has ranked in the top 20 Christianity podcasts in iTunes, gets over 500,000 listens each month and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in October 2020. Jody Moore is a master certified life coach, well known as the host of the Better Than Happy podcast and for her live events and online coaching program, Be Bold. She also has a BA in Communications and an MA in Adult Education along with 15 years of experience as a corporate trainer and leadership coach. Jody and her husband live in Spokane, Washington, and are the parents of four children. Highlights 9:00 We hear counsel or advice and immediately see where others could use it. 11:10 We have an idea of what the "right way to be" looks like for certain roles that people fill in our lives. 12:00 Expectations are premeditated disappointment. We create manuals for others and are disappointed when they don't follow those rules. 14:00 We lose our own authority for ourselves when we blame others for our thoughts and emotions; instead we can get to compassion by recognizing they are imperfect people doing their best. 15:30 The Atonement has two parts: the saving part, and the strengthening and enabling part; we can access that strengthening and enabling power. 17:00 We are punishing ourselves and it doesn't change the other person; we also then unconsciously mirror them and we end up "doing it wrong", and that's what feels terrible. 19:30 How to recognize when you default to these negative thoughts: Examine yourself instead of others. What am I doing that might be similar to what they're doing? In what way am I doing the very thing that I'm judging this person for? 21:45 Next we start to judge ourselves. Recognize that sometimes we are also imperfect. When we can do that for ourselves, we get better at doing it for other people. 23:20 The adversary helps us take the gospel and turn it into part of our manual, and then we judge others by it, driving a wedge between us. We should look at the gospel and counsel for ourselves, not others. 27:00 David O. McKay quote: "The purpose of the gospel is to make bad men good and good men better." Susan Easton Black quote: When I go to church, I go to take the sacrament. That part's for me. But everything else, I go there thinking, What am I bringing? What can I give to other people? 29:15 Sometimes we take the principle of obedience too far; obedience should not come at the expense of our own integrity and relationship with Jesus Christ. 30:10 Be clear about the difference between the gospel and the people. If you want to believe and sustain your leaders, that is enough. The Lord will work with you where you are. 31:40 Giving people permission to be themselves. Sometimes we can manipulate people to be what we want, but then they aren't really who they are. 33:10 What if our only expectation is that they be themselves? 34:25 We can make requests of people, but it becomes a problem when we hang our emotions on whether or not they do it. 36:40 We don't need more people who are like us. We need people who think differently than we do. 38:00 We can define our own success, keeping our expectations to ourselves and holding ourselves to them because others are outside our control. 40:40 When you are the leader, you can start to wonder what others expect of you and become a people pleaser. 42:10 We step into our best version of ourselves as leaders when we try to be ourselves instead of trying to live up to the expectations of others. 44:00 Managing up: you can make a request of the person above you to try or change things. 45:00 Have boundaries and don't allow mistreatment, but don't take it too far and have expectations that diminish the quality of your life and relationships. 48:00 If you want to do something differently, do it now, wherever you are. Example story of people asking a farmer about the people in the town. You will find whatever you are looking for. Links JodyMoore.com Better Than Happy: Expectation Pain Leading Others to be Better Than Happy | An Interview with Jody Moore Mental Health & Youth | An Interview with Jo...

Adam S. Miller is a professor of philosophy at Collin College in McKinney, Texas. He earned a BA in Comparative Literature from Brigham Young University and an MA and PhD in Philosophy from Villanova University. He is the author of more than ten books, including Original Grace, Letters to a Young Mormon, and An Early Resurrection. He and his wife, Gwen, have three children. Highlights 4:30 Adam talks about his book, Original Grace: An Experiment in Restoration Thinking. 5:50 Grace is a very powerful name for what it's like to interact with God. It’s where God’s life and our lives overlap. 6:35 Kurt and Adam discuss Stephen Robinson’s book, Believing Christ. 10:00 Grace is not God’s backup plan. It’s God’s plan A. The means and the ends of salvation. 12:00 We attempt to save ourselves when we misuse God’s law. 13:40 Is God’s love unconditional? 17:45 Original sin mentality vs. original grace mentality. 21:45 Justice is only in the business of what’s good, not evil. Justice is not there for the punishment. 22:20 Justice is to give what good is needed depending on the circumstance. It's basically another name for grace, which is to give good for good and good for evil. 24:00 We think that God is coming for us with punishment when we sin but that is faulty thinking. God is coming for us with grace. He is never trying to punish us but give us the treatment that we need. 25:45 What about all the scriptures about God’s anger and wrath? 28:45 Adam talks about his earthly father in his book about grace and why he included him. 32:55 How do we manifest this doctrine of grace in the context of leadership? 39:00 Discussion on suffering. It can feel like suffering is a deserved punishment but Adam explains why suffering is needed. 49:30 Kurt and Adam share perspectives on the subtitle of Adam’s book, an experiment in restoration thinking. 52:50 Discussion on simplicity. Adam talks about how he used to overcomplicate religion but step by step and through experimenting he has been able to find simplicity. Links Original Grace: An Experiment in Restoration Thinking, by Adam S. Miller Grace Is Not God's Backup Plan: An Urgent Paraphrase of Paul's Letter to the Romans, by Adam S. Miller Letters to a Young Mormon, by Adam S. Miller An Early Resurrection: life in Christ Before You Die, by Adam S. Miller Believing Christ, by Stephen E. Robinson Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast gets over 300,000 listens each month and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help latter-day saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Corry Perkins was born and raised in Boise, Idaho, graduating from Boise State University with a BA in Communications. He served a Spanish-speaking mission in the Canada Toronto Mission and has served as bishop over a traditional geographic area ward and as a temple ordinance worker, and is currently bishop in a married student ward. Corry owns an insurance and financial services agency. He and his wife have been married 42 years and have 2 daughters and 4 grandchildren. Highlights 02:30 Background of Corry Perkins. He explains the dynamics of his ward. 09:45 Corry isn’t in a traditional ward. His responsibilities are a little different as a bishop. His main responsibility is training and developing the next leaders of the church. He focuses on sacred daily routines to help those in his ward have strong relationships with Jesus Christ. 11:40 Corry has established a ward theme. They keep track of everyone's temporal and spiritual goals. 13:15 The ward has been broken into four committees Redeem the Dead Committee (temple and family history) Perfect the Saints Committee (service) Activities Committee Missionary Committee 15:30 How Corry keeps track of each committee and keeps each one going 17:10 How do all of the committees stay unified and the other organizations (Relief Society or Elders Quorum) fold into the committees? 21:00 On an annual basis everyone rotates committees. So freshmen serve in each committee by the time they are a senior and graduate. Everyone in the ward has the opportunity to serve on a committee. 23:45 Third Sunday of every month each committee meets for 15 to 30 minutes after church and then everyone eats together. 24:30 Corry tried to create and work with committees in a traditional ward but it failed. He goes into reasons why maybe it didn’t work there. 26:55 The ward mission leader is the co-chair of the missionary committee. 27:30 Your ward can create committees according to your ward's needs. 28:30 Corry explains more on his ward’s theme He gives each couple a magnet to write out their spiritual and temporal goal for that year’s theme He puts each couple's goal on a big bulletin board On the fourth Sunday 3 couples speak in Sacrament meeting about their goals 34:00 Corry’s mission president was President M. Russell Ballard. He shares some experiences he had and President Ballard’s leadership style. 35:00 Corry shares more about the Redeem the Dead Committee and the amazing experiences that members of his ward have had. Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast gets over 300,000 listens each month and has over10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help latter-day saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Jon McNaughtan grew up in Heber City, Utah, and completed a PhD in higher education with a focus on organizational behavior at the University of Michigan, a masters degree in educational policy from Stanford University, and a bachelors degree in communication from Southern Utah University. Over the last 10 years he has utilized his educational background and professional experience as a leadership consultant with aspiring corporate and educational leaders to identify and cultivate positive practices designed to expand the capacity organizations and individuals. Jon is an associate professor and the associate department chair of Educational Psychology, Leadership, and Counseling at Texas Tech University. His research focuses on leadership from multiple perspectives, first on the role and experience senior leaders and teams have—with an emphasis on how they engage and empower employees—and then how employees develop a sense of empowerment, satisfaction, and purpose in their work. His goal is to enhance the practice of leadership and create spaces where people can be their best. Jon and his wife Liz live in Lubbock, Texas, with their four children. He has served in many callings including ward mission leader, high counselor, scout leader, Primary teacher, Young Men leader, and is currently the elders quorum president of their ward. Highlights 03:00 Introduction and background of Jon McNaughton. 05:30 How do we create a culture where people can be their best? We all need feedback and engagement. The problem is that most people don’t give feedback and are afraid to give feedback. 08:15 We are afraid to give our bishop or stake president feedback yet we have no problem giving our kids' Primary teacher feedback. 09:15 Part of giving feedback is being vulnerable and asking hard questions. 09:45 How can I provide feedback without complaining or criticizing? Jon shares two scriptural examples. 14:30 When we give feedback we make it too personal. Be reflective in your feedback and don’t take it personal. 15:30 Come with a question instead of an answer. 16:00 Be direct and ask your leader if they would like feedback. 17:00 When we give feedback we need to know why we are giving it. Think about your why. Are our leaders the ones that need to change or is it us? Is what that leader doing harming others? 20:00 Figuring out your why and the motivation behind giving feedback to your leader. Write down what the feedback is and what the goals would be if that person were to take it. Are the goals about you or about that other person? What is the end goal and what would change through giving feedback? 22:30 Things to remember when you want to give feedback. What works really well for us doesn’t always work well for others. There is not just one way to do things in the church. Remember that the Lord will consecrate the work that people do. 27:00 Sometimes complaining or criticizing leads to change. 28:50 Feedback provides self awareness. 29:30 Advice for giving and receiving feedback. What am I doing to receive feedback beyond just having an open door policy? Feedback is built on trust and building relationships with people. Have plenty of one on one conversions and interviews. 34:15 We need to create a culture of feedback. Feedback can really create a better experience. 35:20 How do I balance obedience with feedback? 36:15 1 Nephi 3:27. It was the Lord that sent Nephi and his brothers into Jerusalem to get the plates but the brothers were angry with Nephi and Sam and beat them. Nephi did not send them. 37:00 Jon shares the story in Ether 2 on giving feedback to the Lord. 38:10 The Lord expects us to give feedback to Him and to our leaders. We are supposed to cry unto Him. 44:30 What do I do when my feedback isn’t heard? What can leaders do to make sure that the people in their congregation are heard? Are you following up with people? 47:40 Jon shares a personal experience on receiving fee...

Norbert Kalogo Ounleu is from Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast). He grew up Muslim and was baptized when he was 25 years old. Norbert served as a Sunday School teacher, ward mission leader, and Young Men president, and was called as a bishop at age 27, just two years after he was baptized. He then served as a stake president, mission president of the Ivory Coast, and area seventy. He currently serves as a Sunday School teacher. He has worked as an Institute director and teacher and currently works for the Church History Department. He and his wife Valerie have four children. Highlights 01:45 Introduction to Norbert Ounleu and his conversion story. 07:10 Norbert talks about his very first calling teaching Sunday School. 09:40 How Norbert met his wife and their story. 12:15 Norbert was called as a bishop at 27 years old, just two years after his conversion. 14:00 Norbert describes what it was like stepping into a bishop’s role without much experience or knowledge. He went to the missionaries for help. 16:00 If Norbert could go back in time and give himself advice as a new bishop he would tell himself to just follow the Spirit. 16:30 Ward demographics and dynamics at the time that Norbert was bishop. 18:00 Day-to-day responsibilities as a bishop in the Ivory Coast Welfare needs Helping people with their callings 20:45 After 3 years as bishop, Norbert was called to be a stake president. 21:30 How being a stake president is different from being a bishop. 22:15 Stake demographics. It was a very large area for a stake. Members would have to travel for a couple of hours to get to the stake center. 23:10 Norbert’s advice to stake presidents and other leaders Be united with your counselors 24:40 The Church was very new to the Ivory Coast in the '90s and it was difficult to find leaders and train them for callings. They relied heavily on the handbook. 26:00 What Norbert learned as a young leader. He had to learn the handbook very well. He made plenty of mistakes at first but was humble when told what he did wrong. 27:45 Getting called as a mission president. He had less than two months to prepare. 31:40 Once again he started a new calling, as a mission president, knowing nothing. He relied on the help of other leaders. He had the unique dynamic of dealing with a civil war, no MTC, and not having a temple. Most missionaries were not endowed. 35:35 Serving as mission president helped Norbert and his wife grow together. 36:50 Norbert’s wife focused on the missionaries' health and training the sister missionaries. 37:30 Norbert talks about how he helped grow the Church in his country when he served as a mission president. 38:00 Right after his mission, Norbert was called as an area seventy. 39:30 From the mission home, Norbert moved his family to Ghana and started teaching and directing the Institute, and served as an area seventy. 40:15 What it was like to be an area seventy. He served in this calling for seven years. 44:00 Working for the Church History Department Links Pioneers in every land: Norbert K. Ounleu has seen the restored gospel grow exponentially in the Ivory Coast and in Africa Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast gets over 300,000 listens each month and has over 10 million total downloads as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie,

Brad Pelo has been a lifelong member of the Church and has served as a bishop twice and most recently as a counselor in the New York City YSA stake presidency. He is currently executive producer and president of The Chosen and was executive producer of the feature films Forever Strong and The Legend of Johnny Lingo. Brad is married to Melody Allen and they are parents to 12 children and 17 grandchildren. Derral Eves is a family man of great faith. He earned a bachelor's degree in communications at Southern Utah University. Professionally, he has been on YouTube since 2005, where he has helped generate nearly 86 billion video views, and his book The YouTube Formula is a Wall Street Journal bestseller. He is currently the CEO and Executive Producer of The Chosen. Derral is also founder of Creatus, a marketing and consulting company, and VidSummit, an annual video conference. He served a mission in Paraguay and has since served in several callings including as elders quorum president, bishopric counselor, bishop, and counselor in a stake presidency. Derral and his wife Carolyn live in La Verkin, Utah, and have five amazing kids. The Chosen is a television series about the life of Jesus Christ that broke the all-time crowdfunding record in film and television. Their 2021 Christmas special broke box office records and was the #1 movie in the country at its theatrical release. Highlights 02:00 Introduction to Derral Eves and Brad Pelo, producers of The Chosen. 03:00 Derral shares his background story and how he came to work on The Chosen. 18:50 Brad shares his story and how he got involved with The Chosen. 29:40 The story behind the Goshen set, where The Chosen was filmed. 31:10 How would you create a ‘Chosen-like’ experience on Sunday? Focus on relationships with Christ in every talk, lesson, and discussion. The new generation wants authenticity and nothing sugar coated. 41:10 How do you encourage people to focus more on Jesus in Sunday meetings? Remember that you set the tone. Be very specific with topics for speaking. Let people know what you want to accomplish. 45:50 As members we feel obligated to accept callings. We should let our leader know what is going on in our lives before accepting a calling. While it’s important to serve we need to avoid burnout. 48:00 Derral shares a story about a meeting with Elder Renlund and getting to ask him leadership questions. 52:20 Avoid burnout. It’s ok to say no. This is God’s work and we are just assisting Him. 54:45 Brad shares his own perspective on creating a ‘chosen like’ experience at church. He believes that it’s important to not only create content but also context. 56:30 The gathering of saints is a community experience not a social experience. The body of Christ requires us to experience Him together. 1:00:00 As leadership we need to look for opportunities for people to experience Christ as a body. Gathering should be more than reviewing the doctrine. Everyone should be speaking of Jesus and participating. 1:00:50 Brad shares about a documentary they filmed having nine Gen-Zs watch The Chosen together. How they reacted and their experience. He shares what can be learned from this experience. 1:05:00 If you want people to open up and be vulnerable then you need to model it for them. 1:08:10 Derral shares a story of what it looks like to be real and authentic. 1:17:30 We often make the mistake of showing people who appear to be as perfect as Jesus when we need to model people that are broken and have a relationship with Jesus. 1:18:30 In our church culture we create this false facade. We think that because people are called that they are perfect. 1:20:20 Brad talks about what he has learned from the interfaith effort working on The Chosen. 1:24:30 Because of our religious persecution we have sheltered ourselves away from others of the Christian faith. Bringing people to Jesus doesn’t mean handing out the Book of Mormon and converting people to our faith.