Leading Saints Podcast

Brooke Petersen lives in Cleveland, Utah, a rural town south of Price. Her husband, Hans, commutes to West Valley City, Utah, where he practices pediatric dentistry. Brooke and Hans have five children, and Brooke enjoys working in the yard. She currently serves in the Church as the stake Young Women president of the Huntington Utah Stake. Thomas Sitterud also lives in Cleveland with his wife and three children. He served a mission to Vladivostok, Russia, and then studied Russian at Brigham Young University. He graduated from Thomas M. Cooley Law School and specializes in estate planning. Thomas currently serves as stake Young Men president and stake high councilor. His previous service includes bishopric counselor and elders quorum president. Highlights 03:10 Introduction to Brooke and Thomas and their stake callings 07:20 Stake activities for the youth that they are preparing for 08:20 Stake young women president is Brooke’s first leadership calling. Even though she was intimidated she has been able to have lots of support and shares a fresh perspective. 12:10 Brooke shares the dynamic between her and the ward young women presidencies and how she works with them. 15:20 Thomas shares his perspective on working with the wards as stake young men president. 17:50 Focus on the what. Trying to get to know each girl better by attending youth sporting events and things they are involved with and sending out birthday cards to every girl in the stake. 24:00 Thomas shares what they do as stake leaders to help connect with the one. 27:20 Feeling supported by local leaders. Don’t tell people how important they are to you but show them how important they are to you by your actions and giving them your time. 29:40 Let the youth lead. Let them be a support to the ward just like the youth in Helaman’s army. 32:20 Brooke shares ways that they invite the youth to participate and lead. Giving the youth opportunities to speak with the high council on the third Sunday. 36:30 Getting youth involved at younger ages. Sometimes they have more enthusiasm for leadership roles. 39:30 Final thoughts on leadership. Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Dr. Derwin L. Gray and his wife Vicki Gray are the co-founders of Transformation Church, just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, where he serves as Lead Pastor. They met at Brigham Young University where he played football and she threw the javelin on the track team. They have two adult children. After graduating from BYU, Pastor Derwin played professional football in the NFL—five years with the Indianapolis Colts and one year with the Carolina Panthers. During that time, he and Vicki began their journey with Christ. Pastor Derwin went on to graduate magna cum laude from Southern Evangelical Seminary with a Master of Divinity degree with a concentration in Apologetics, and was mentored by renowned theologian and philosopher, Dr. Norman Geisler. He was later awarded an honorary doctorate from Southern Evangelical Seminary, and he received his Doctor of Ministry in the New Testament in Context at Northern Seminary under Dr. Scot McKnight. Pastor Derwin speaks at conferences nationwide and is the author of several books, including How to Heal Our Racial Divide: What the Bible Says, and What the First Century Christians Knew about Racial Reconciliation. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces Pastor Derwin Gray. 03:30 What do you do as a pastor? It’s not a job. It’s a calling. 06:00 How he came to play with BYU football and in the NFL. The spiritual awakening that led Derwin to become a pastor. 13:00 Taking religious courses at BYU without much of a religious background. Derwin shares some of the experiences that he had in his classes. 16:30 Being at BYU taught Derwin to learn the story of other people that you love. It taught him a moral framework and what it means to take care of your own. 19:10 Leadership from Coach Edwards He surrounded himself with good coaches He delegated to them He empowered his staff He built strong relationships 22:30 Delegation means finding and equipping the right people to implement the vision and championing them to do it. 23:30 Tips for delegation You are clear on what you are asking them to do You are prepared to prepare them to do what you are asking them to do Celebrate them for what they do 26:45 Motivating the volunteers and people that are serving. Lovingly pushing people towards action. 32:15 The dynamic between the congregation and a pastor. They have a big staff to care for and shepherd their people. The pastor can’t do it alone. 34:40 The biggest things that Derwin sees that his congregation is struggling with: anxiety, depression, fatigue, comparison, trauma. 37:15 I can’t carry people’s hurts; I have to carry them to Jesus. Learning to have compassion without getting compassion fatigue. 39:40 Crash course on giving a sermon on Jesus. It’s not about information, it’s about transformation. 45:00 Derwin shares his insights on sharing a testimony. Many in our church testify that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that the Church is true but don’t talk about how Jesus has changed their lives. 46:00 The role of Derwin’s wife, Vicki, in the ministry. Women have a vital ministry role. 48:00 To be a bishop or pastor doesn’t mean telling people what to do. Their job is to serve the staff and congregation. 49:30 A lot of times we get our leadership style from culture and not from Christ. 52:40 Pastor Derwin shares his final thoughts and testimony on leadership. Links derwinlgray.com Books by Pastor Derwin Gray Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H.

Meagan Patterson is studying fashion design at the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandise in Los Angeles. She is currently serving in her ward Young Women presidency in California. She has previously served as a ward Relief Society president and stake Relief Society president as a young single adult in Utah. She also served in the Zambia Lusaka mission. Highlights 2:40 Meagan’s background 4:30 Meagan shares her experience going from being in a Young Single Adult ward in Utah and moving as a mid-single adult to a geographical ward in California. 6:00 Previous leadership experience and mission in Zambia Lusaka 9:30 Story behind getting called to be the stake Relief Society president 12:50 Getting started as a Relief Society president and choosing counselors. Setting a foundation with the handbook. 16:20 Advice from Meagan’s dad before her mission. Let the elders serve you. It’s the same in our wards. Relief Society and elders quorum should serve one another and work hand in hand. 20:00 Coming together to work with the elders quorum. Things that Meagan did did to help the men in the ward to feel loved. 22:45 Love fuels leadership. We are leaders because we love. People recognize leadership when they feel loved. 24:40 Meagan’s experience working with young women. The unique challenges of an inner city ward. 28:20 Meagan shares her final thoughts and testimony on leadership and how it has brought her closer to the Savior. Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is Part 2 of a 2-part podcast. Listen to Part 1 HERE. Sara Newman Sara Newman currently serves as a member of her ward’s Relief Society service committee in whatever capacity is needed. She earned her bachelor's degree in Family Science from Brigham Young University and enjoyed raising five children with her husband. She anticipates “retiring” soon, once her youngest is launched, and is enjoying her new role as a grandmother. She has lived in four states, served as Relief Society president in three different wards, and as Relief Society counselor, pianist, chorister, Cub Scout leader, Primary teacher and counselor, Relief Society teacher, and Gospel Doctrine teacher. Highlights 0:15 Sara speaks on being released from as Relief Society president earlier than she expected. 3:30 “I cried when I got the calling; I cried when I got released. I was surprised by it.” 5:30 Something for leaders to think about is giving leaders more time to transition when a release is coming. It can be very jarring to have a calling and the next day nothing. 6:50 There was no excitement or relief getting released. Just devastation. Sara shares the reasons why she felt so hurt when released. 9:30 Part of the devastation was loneliness and loss of the community she was a part of. Also, not feeling like she was doing a good enough job. 12:30 Looking back Sara can say the time was right to get released because of health challenges that happened. She can see the Lord’s timing but at the moment it was very hard. 13:30 The first weeks after getting released were the hardest. 16:50 The bishopric and other ward council members had a small gathering to thank Sara for her service. It helped her have some closure. 19:20 Sara’s encouragement to other leaders that are also going through a transition after getting released Darren Bush Darren Bush is a husband, father, and paddler who advocates outdoor activities to feel the Spirit. Darren served a mission to southern Italy, met his wife, Stephanie, at Brigham Young University, and completed degrees in Italian and Psychology at University of Wisconsin–Madison after discovering it was the best place in the world. After completing a master’s degree at the University of Rochester the family moved back to Wisconsin where he eventually bought Rutabaga Paddlesports. He has previously served as a bishop, Primary teacher and nursery leader, elders quorum and Young Men president, ward missionary, high councilor, in a young single adult bishopric, and as an executive secretary and financial clerk. Highlights 20:11 Darren Bush, recently-released bishop 22:30 The relationships that were built over the past five years as bishop were gone. 24:00 The day Darren got released made him feel lighter. He didn’t realize how much weight he was holding. However, it was still hard. Missing the people and seeing people’s faces. 26:30 The lost puppy phase after getting released 30:00 Advice Darren was given from his uncle, a former bishop. “Don’t go inactive.” 33:00 We need to separate our personal identity from our calling in the ward. 35:15 Combating loneliness after being bishop 40:45 Darren’s encouragement to the former leader that is fighting loneliness Julie Kiser Julie Kiser is a graduate of Brigham Young University and currently works part-time as a professional organizer and as a part-time administrative assistant to her husband and his financial advising firm. She currently serves as a special needs mutual advisor and a Gospel Doctrine teacher. Past callings include stake YSA Relief Society president, YSA Relief Society advisor, counselor in Young Women, Primary, and Relief Society presidencies, Primary teacher, Young Women advisor and compassionate service leader. Julie has been married for 37 years and has five children. She loves spending time with her husband and family, reading, long walks with friends, traveling, hiking, cooking and baking,

Kurt Francom is the founder and executive director of Leading Saints, manages the day-to-day efforts of Leading Saints, and is the host of the podcast. Kurt graduated from the University of Utah in 2008 with a degree in Business Marketing. He ran a web development company for five years before focusing on Leading Saints full time. Kurt currently lives in Stansbury Park, Utah with his lovely wife Alanna. They are blessed to have three children. Kurt has served as a full-time missionary (California Sacramento), as a bishop, first counselor in a stake presidency, and elders quorum president. This is Part 1 of a 2-part podcast. Listen to Part 2 HERE. Highlights 01:00 Kurt introduces the episode’s topic of feeling hurt when released from a calling. 04:15 Sometimes getting released from a calling is an identity shift and is accompanied by feelings of loneliness or feeling lost. 07:30 Kurt shares his story and leadership journey. Being bishop and in the stake presidency then going back to being brother Francom. The sadness about not being as involved. 14:00 There is a transition period when being released from a big calling. Even years later it can still hurt. 16:20 It hurts not to be called, not to be chosen, not to be the leader. 18:45 It’s ok to hurt and struggle with the transition of not being in leadership anymore. 19:10 Episode takeaways: Remember that closure is crucial Reach out to others for support Surrender your impact and things you started in the ward. The next leader is probably going to change things 23:00 Minister to the bishop who just got released. Help them through the transition. Share your own story. 24:10 Kurt reads a letter from a former bishop that got released suddenly. Links Part 2 of this podcast Is Aspiring Wrong? Finding Purpose in Your Ward After a Heavy Leadership Calling | An Interview with Rob Eaton Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saint podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Ben Thatcher is a life-long church member, having grown up in small wards and branches across Texas. He served in the France Paris mission and has degrees in Mass Communication (University of Utah) and Public Administration (University of North Texas). Ben has worked in local government in several cities across Texas and currently is the city manager of Boerne (pronounced Burn-nee), Texas, northwest of San Antonio. He currently serves as bishop of his ward and has also served as an executive secretary, ward clerk, Sunday School president, bishopric counselor, and high councilor. When he is not at city hall or church, Ben can often be found coaching youth baseball in his spare time. He and his wife, Summer, have been married for over 23 years and have four sons. Highlights 02:50 Introduction and background of Ben Thatcher 08:30 What it's like working as a city manager 11:30 Ninety percent of the time our problems can be solved by going and having a conversation with someone. 12:30 Tips for having tough conversations on direction of leadership 18:50 The principle of focus Focus on fewer things Understand your role from the handbook and focus on that 27:10 Ben explains extended ward councils: a yearly, 90-minute council in a new environment 30:30 The engagement principle Applying principles used with employees at church with ward council How to support your ward council Give the ward council a framework 36:00 Are you talking to your members about their progress and how they are personally? 39:15 The importance of personal talents and strengths 42:20 Ben shares an experience he had with Elder Dunn of the seventy and what he was able to learn from him to help him as a new bishop. 44:30 Ben had a rough first year as bishop but he explains how he was able to turn it around and get more help from the ward to help with the youth. 49:30 Ben applies what he has learned as a city manager in his service in the Church. 53:40 Ben’s final thoughts on leadership Links 12: The Elements of Great Managing Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Bonnie Oscarson was born in Salt Lake City, Utah but her family moved and lived in several different states as she was growing up. She attended Brigham Young University and majored in commercial art. Bonnie met her husband, Paul Oscarson, when her family lived in St. Louis, Missouri. They are the parents of seven children and have 29 fascinating grandchildren. Paul and Bonnie served as mission president and companion in the Sweden Gothenburg Mission as a young couple and then returned to Sweden in 2009 to serve as president and matron of the Stockholm Sweden Temple. She finally finished her bachelor’s degree from BYU in British and American Literature 41 years after she first began. (She is glad she did it but doesn’t recommend that educational plan.) Bonnie was called to serve as the Young Women general president in April 2013 and released in April 2018. Since her release she is enjoying spending time with those grandchildren and catching up on her reading. Bonnie and Paul recently moved to Provo where they serve as ordinance workers in the Provo Temple and as ecclesiastical leaders in the Provo Missionary Training Center. Highlights 02:15 Kurt introduces Bonnie Oscarson. 03:00 Bonnie talks about her upbringing and background. 8:45 Leadership opportunities. When Bonnie was 25 and her husband was 29 years old, they were called to serve as mission leaders in Sweden. 12:20 Stepping up to a big calling at a young age 18:30 Preparation for her calling as the general young women’s president 18:50 The Lord knows what's coming. Bonnie talks about how leadership callings and going back to school prepared her for what was to come. 23:10 Being called as matron to the Stockholm temple 25:40 Her biggest takeaway from serving at the temple was, “To see the hand of the Lord so clearly.” The daily miracles. 27:30 Getting called to be the general young women's president and choosing counselors 33:00 Feeling inadequate in her new calling and how God pulled her through 34:20 Starting out as the Young Women general president. Do I change things? 40:00 Speaking in conference isn’t hard. Writing the talk is hard. 43:20 What Bonnie learned in her time traveling and visiting other places 45:00 Bonnie’s advice to a new Young Women presidency. Learn how to follow the Spirit. 48:20 Issues and things they focused on when Bonnie was Young Women general president. 54:00 Speaking up in ward council; Women struggling to feel heard in councils 58:15 What Bonnie’s up to today: Serving in the temple and MTC. 59:10 Bonnie’s final thoughts on leadership Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in December 2019. Jason Coombs is a Utah native and lives in the Boise, Idaho, area with his wife and 7-year-old twins. They own a chain of substance use disorder treatment centers called Brick House Recovery. Kurt previously interviewed Jason as part of the Liberating Saints Virtual Conference, and for the upcoming Recovering Saints Virtual Conference. Brent Daines was Jason’s bishop from 2006 to 2011. Brent now serves as a stake president, lives in Centerville, Utah, and is the father of seven incredible children and 12 beautiful grandchildren. He is currently the CEO of RLL Insurance and loves to flyfish, ski, and golf in his spare time. Kurt Francom, Brent Daines, Jason Coombs Highlights 06:30 Jason’s story started with an auto accident 07:45 Jason is the grandson of President James E. Faust, and at the time attended church weekly but wasn’t living close to the Spirit. Went to lunch with a friend from work who connected him to a doctor prescribing opioids 12:30 Ignored the warnings in his head but justified his actions and saw the doctor 16:00 The physician was indicted for fraud five months later, sending 139 addicted patients to the street for drugs 22:00 Didn’t believe he had a problem, but had merely been “found out”; marriage failed and was homeless and living in a very dark place 24:30 Incarcerated and in a drug court program but couldn’t stop using 25:25 Brent received a phone call from Jason’s ex-wife and went to see him in jail 28:15 Brent had been prepared by his experience with his brother and was able to see Jason as Christ sees him 32:10 There will be a few people who are greatly affected by you during your time serving as a church leader 36:00 Called President Faust at Jason’s request and learned more about coming to this from a place of love 38:30 Weekly visits from Brent led to hope for Jason, but he was still not ready to commit to change for four years after being released from jail. Brent would still appear at critical points in Jason’s life. 42:00 Brent could still feel Heavenly Father’s love for Jason, even though it seemed his actions were not helping 44:10 Jason made the decision to change after his son was born and in intensive care, but still went through rehab five times before he was able to complete the 12 steps and fully change 47:45 Made a final confession to Bishop Daines, in spite of his fears about judgment and excommunication 50:30 Immersed himself in friendship with others who were actively recovering, made good decisions, and changed his perspective on church discipline; Brent was his advocate through all of this 55:50 The challenge of self-forgiveness and recognizing Jesus Christ as your personal Savior Links Unhooked: How to Help an Addicted Loved One Recover, by Jason Coombs Brick House Recovery Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library, including the Liberating Saints Conference The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership,

Kurt Brown hails from Sacramento, California, where his family joined the Church when he was young. He played two years of college basketball, studied Finance and Economics at Brigham Young University, and dropped out senior year to go to Wall Street, where he was a trader on the New York Stock Exchange and the co-manager of an investment fund for 13 years. He started his own firm, TownSquare Capital, in 2018 and sold it to a larger, national firm (Orion) in 2022. In the Church, his callings have included single adult ward bishop, Young Men president, scoutmaster, Gospel Doctrine teacher, elders quorum president, and ward clerk. He served in the Canada Halifax mission. Kurt and his wife, Katie, have been married 16 years and have four children: one biological son, an adopted daughter, and two special-needs foster children they adopted. Kurt and Katie have been called to serve as the mission leaders of the Washington Tacoma Mission starting July 2023. Highlights 03:40 Introduction to Kurt Brown, his childhood, his family joining the church, and his mission. 12:30 Working at wall street, going to college, and playing basketball. 15:20 Slipping away from the church for a time. Kurt’s faith journey and ending up back in Utah. 19:00 Coming back to Utah, getting his life back in order, got married at 35. 21:30 Kurt helped create a mid-singles ward in Provo, Utah and was the bishop of that ward. He talks about what he did to start the ward. 30:00 Establishing positive culture at church. They did this by creating a space that felt like the savior was present. The first weeks they had 120 people and within 5 months they had 500 people attending. 33:30 The experience that people need at church is to feel warm and welcomed. Every Sunday after sacrament meeting they would break into visitors meeting. Kurt shares what they would share with people in those meetings. 36:30 From the very first visitor’s meeting they established the culture. Everyone got vulnerable, shared their stories. Every single meeting was focused on helping people feel hope and the holy ghost. 37:50 There is something powerful about sharing our stories. When hearing people’s stories we need to have as much compassion as the savior would. 40:00 You aren’t the gatekeeper. You are the welcoming committee. 41:30 In three years they never assigned a topic for sacrament meeting. 42:15 Kurt constantly invited people to come see him and unload their pain on him. 43:20 Kurt shares an experience with President Eyring. President Eyring taught that while we are a handbook heavy church, the handbook is not what we are doing. It’s about love, not a checklist from the handbook. 45:40 After serving as bishop, Kurt has been able to see people in a completely different way. He is no longer a harsh judge. 47:50 Creating a bishop’s office that is a place to unload pain and feel hope. 49:00 Too many bishops insert themselves too much in other people’s repentance process. You are not their parole office. You are their advocate. You help carry the baggage. 52:20 Helping people with repentance Setting the framework The people choose their own path to repentance, not the bishop Take the focus off the shame and shift it to creating better self worth 1:02:30 Letting people choose their own path to repentance. What’s meaningful and personal to people is different and that’s why a repentance checklist from the bishop isn’t going to work for everyone. They have to work with the Spirit to find out what they need to do to repent. 1:05:00 Disciplinary council is the last resort. We have to lean to the side of compassion and listen to the Spirit. 1:08:45 Getting in trouble as bishop because he refused to kick anyone out of the ward just because they didn’t live in the boundaries. He felt strongly about protecting ‘the one’ and giving them a home. 1:12:20 Getting called as mission president

Tommy Wilson was born and raised in Georgia. He now lives in Crestview, Florida, and serves as first counselor in the stake presidency. He has also served in the stake Young Men organization and as a bishop. Highlights 02:40 Introduction to Tommy Wilson. He shares about getting called to the stake presidency. 09:00 Tommy describes his area and the demographic of his stake 11:15 Advice to a new bishop 14:15 The personal weaknesses that come to the surface as a bishop. Things Tommy regrets. 21:15 Being vulnerable as a bishop and encouraging others to do the same 25:20 Tommy shares about losing his baby boy. The thing that helped him the most was finding a community that had gone through the same thing. The people around you have more in common with you than you think. Open up and talk to them. 29:15 Tommy’s invitation to his ward to open up and talk. You have to learn to be okay with uncomfortable topics. 32:00 Connecting with people on a deeper level. One on one. 40:40 Not taking yourself too seriously as a bishop 43:40 Tommy shares how he gained his testimony and the first time he felt like God loved him. 46:00 An experience Tommy had feeling the love of God for a man in his ward Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.