Choose the Hard Way

Welcome back to United States of Sweat presented by Choose the Hard Way where politicians and policymakers join us to share stories about fitness, health and the sports they love playing.  In 2008 Tom Perriello won the election to represent Virginia’s 5th Congressional district by fewer than 1,000 votes. He later ran for governor of Virginia and he also served as Special Envoy for Sudan and Special Envoy for the Democratic Republic of the Congo & Great Lakes among many other acts of service.  Marathons, 10-day silent retreats, Spartan Races & what happens when you’re forced to operate on four hours of sleep a night for a year while making 62 country visits to end a humanitarian crisis--this episode goes deep.  Tom was also the executive director of Open Society Foundations where he met my co-host Jonathan Kaplan.  Jonathan runs Essington Road Strategies, helping organizations navigate Washington, shape policy and manage reputational risk. He also writes Riding With, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business and politics. Find that at ridingwithkaplan.substack.com. The number one way to support Choose the Hard Way is to become a paid subscriber to my substack, alwaysthehardway.substack.com. That’s where I share my reflections on these interviews and write about engaged mindfulness, bikes and life.  For senior execs, pro athletes, and political leaders, podcasts aren’t optional anymore. They’re mission-critical. At One Real Voice, I coach leaders 1:1 to help them thrive as storytellers and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built.  When you’re ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email hello@onerealvoice.com. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, please subscribe and do humanity a favor when you hit 5 stars.  Now, let’s get started with United States of Sweat. Remember, this is the beginning of this project. DM me @hardwaypod on instagram and let me know what you think. 

During a divided time in America, our love of sports and fitness cross party lines and can keep us healthy as individuals and bring us together as a nation.  The United States of Sweat is a new series from Choose the Hard Way that features the world’s leading political leaders and policy makers sharing stories about what they do to stay healthy, fit and physically active.  When we decided to launch the United States of Sweat, we knew the first guest we wanted to land was an endurance athlete of a different kind, Ambassador Jeff Flake.   Ambassador Flake recently served as U.S. Ambassador to Türkiye and previously represented Arizona in both the U.S. Senate and House.  He’s taught at Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, and now leads the Institute of Politics at Arizona State. In 2025, he was knighted by Sweden for his role in securing their NATO accession.  He’s also the author of the New York Times bestseller Conscience of a Conservative: A Rejection of Destructive Politics and a Return to Principle. In his spare time, Ambassador Flake likes to maroon himself on deserted islands and survive with little more than a spear and a machete.  Ambassador Flake and his wife, Cheryl, are the parents of five grown children. We first crossed paths in 2018 when then Senators Flake and Chris Coons sent a letter to Strava about our global heat map and data privacy when I was running global communications. That led to a trip to the hill and one of the most thrilling and fulfilling experiences of my professional career that I’ll save for another podcast.  My co-host on the United States of Sweat is Jonathan Kaplan. You may know Jonathan as the author of the popular Riding With newsletter and for his legendary performance at the January 2025 Beyond the Peloton x Choose the Hard Way training camp.  But wait, there’s more. Jonathan Kaplan is a former political journalist, congressional aide, State Department official, and most recently, comms strategist for the world’s largest human rights funder.  He now runs Essington Road Strategies, helping organizations navigate Washington, shape policy, and manage reputational risk. He also writes Riding With, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business, and politics. Find that at ridingwithkaplan.substack.com. For senior execs, pro athletes, and political leaders, podcasts aren’t optional anymore—they’re mission-critical. At One Real Voice, I coach leaders 1:1 to help them show up as humans and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built. If you’re ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email hello@onerealvoice.com. Now, let’s get started with the United States of Sweat. DM me @hardwaypod on instagram and let me know what you think. This episode is brought to you by Blockchain.com. Over $1 trillion in crypto transactions have been trusted to Blockchain.com. They’re your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. When you crypto, crypto with Blockchain.com. This episode is also brought to you by Lauf. We sought them out as a partner because they take an unconstrained and innovative approach to building that yields best-in-class results. Lauf bikes are elegant, fast and radically fun. When you ride, ride Lauf www.laufcycles.com.  Palm Tree Pod Co. is our trusted strategic production partner. Why? Because we work with the best. Find Anthony and his crackerjack team at www.palmtreepodco.com. 

Subscribe to the Choose the Hard Way substack at www.alwaysthehardway.substack.com for a look behind the scenes of this episode and human-generated insights about bikes, zen and life.  Walking away from an executive role at a high-growth unicorn to go all-in & start up your own company sounds cool. What happens when a highly promising start up with an awesome product becomes an end up and your funding and life savings are gone?  This episode is an inside look at Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz’s journey as co-founder of the venture-backed sleep tech startup The Better Lab, how that experience spawned his new company One Real Voice & a glimpse of what’s on the horizon with his stealth consumer health startup.  Vontz’s longtime friend & mentor Shannon Jones is the co-pilot for this unvarnished conversation about the realities of building, leading and moving forward in business in life.  Jones is an investor, educator, and advisor with roots in private equity and entrepreneurship. He founded Halstatt Legacy Partners to acquire and grow family-owned businesses and has led ventures in fitness, media, and health.  He coaches new CEOs through high-stakes transitions, often addressing identity and behavior. An adjunct professor at CU Boulder, he teaches acquisition and leadership, drawing on real-world experience--from co-founding a boxing reality TV startup to recruiting CEOs for investor-backed firms. Find Shannon on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/wshannonjones/ and subscribe to his Substack: transcendceo.substack.com. Being able to perform in high-stakes, long-form podcast conversations is now a mission-critical skill for senior leaders.  Drawing on his 25 years of experience as a journalist, founder, executive & host of hundreds of podcast episodes, Andrew Vontz works 1:1 with senior executives, political leaders and pro athletes who are eager to build & practice the new skills it takes to thrive in the podcast landscape. Are you ready to be great? DM Andrew @hardwaypod or email hello@onerealvoice.com. This episode is brought to you by Blockchain.com. Over $1 trillion in crypto transactions have been trusted to Blockchain.com. They’re your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. When you crypto, crypto with Blockchain.com. This episode is also brought to you by Lauf. We sought them out as a partner because they take an unconstrained and innovative approach to building that yields best-in-class results. Lauf bikes are elegant, fast and radically fun. When you ride, ride Lauf www.laufcycles.com.  Palm Tree Pod Co. is our trusted strategic production partner. Why? Because we work with the best. Find Anthony and his crackerjack team at www.palmtreepodco.com. 

Pro gravel cyclist Chase Wark joins me today to talk about setting the fastest known time on the 300-mile Mega Mid South gravel loop after wildfires devastated the Stillwater, Oklahoma area and cancelled the Mid South gravel race. Find Chase @chasethebiker on Instagram.  I wrote a story with my thoughts and reflections on the interview you’ll hear today on my substack. Find that at https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/. That link is in the show notes & you can also find it in my bio @hardwaypod on Instagram.  The #1 thing you can do to support this show is to subscribe to my substack and if you’d like me to write and drop pods more frequently, please consider becoming a paid subscriber. It takes a lot of time to produce these and your support helps make it happen.  I’ll be dropping part 2 of this interview soon where Chase and I do a deep dive on life, bikes and family.  After an extensive search for the perfect bike partner, I’m excited to announce that Lauf has joined the Choose the Hard Way family. Lauf makes the coolest road and gravel bikes known to humankind and for 2025 I’m riding the Uthlad all road bike and Seigla gravel bike with the Grit suspension fork. Find them @laufcycles on Instagram.   Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Follow my subtack and @hardwaypod on instagram to meet up with me at gravel events like Overland and to see what adventures I tackle on my Lauf bikes in 2025. Check them out at www.laufcycles.com.   Crypto curious? With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Create your free wallet and get up to 10% in annual rewards by putting your crypto to work. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today, no experience required.  This podcast is also brought to you by my best-in-class partners at Palm Tree Pod Co. They’re a full-service podcast studio with end-to-end services to help any brand, business or individual take a strategic approach and standout. Find them at www.palmtreepodco.com Follow @hardwaypod on Instagram to get a look behind the scenes at what goes into the Choose the Hard Way podcast and substack and more. 

The #1 thing you can do to support this podcast is to subscribe to the Choose the Hard Way substack. Just go to substack and search for ‘Choose the Hard Way’ or go to  https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/ and hit subscribe today.  That’s where Andrew Vontz writes about bikes, zen and life + shares his reflections on conversations with guests on the Choose the Hard Way podcast and more.  ‪@Harry-Sweeny‬ rides for the EF Education-Easy Post World Tour team in the biggest races in pro cycling and his YouTube channel tells the story of his life as a pro cyclist, semi-pro chef and adventurer. ‪Harry also shares about his journey with level 1 autism and how it led him to discover the importance of taking 10 minutes a day to do nothing in order to unlock higher levels of performance during critical moments in races.  Find Harry on YouTube and Instagram: https://www.youtube.com/@Harry-Sweeny www.instagram.com/harry.sweeny Over $1 trillion in crypto transactions have been trusted to Blockchain.com and I’m excited to welcome them as the new title sponsor of Choose the Hard Way. Blockchain.com is your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. Create your free wallet and get up to 10% in annual rewards by putting your crypto to work. When you crypto, crypto with Blockchain.com. Palm Tree Pod Co is my production and marketing partner of choice because they do exceptional work that lets me focus on the part of podcasting I love the most, interviewing amazing guests. When you’re ready to start a pod or take your pod to the next level, work with Palm Tree Pod Co. Find them at www.palmtreepodco.com. Follow @hardwaypod on Instagram to get a look behind the scenes at what goes into the Choose the Hard Way podcast and substack and more. 

Christopher Blevins is a mindfulness practitioner who builds community and a more inclusive and healthy world through bikes. He’s one of the best professional mountain bikers America has ever produced and one of the best in the world. He has won the Cape Epic and taken gold in the mountain bike world championships in the short track and cross-country mixed relay disciplines. He has also won UCI World Cups in the short track and cross country disciplines. Outside of bike racing, Christopher has a wide range of interests. He started his own production company, produces and performs music and is an active member in a sangha, a Buddhist community. You can find him on social @christopherblevs. Choose the Hard Way is brought to you by Palm Tree Pod Co. If you’re ready to start a podcast or want to take your existing podcast to the next level, the team at Palm Tree Pod Co. is your ace. They’re the team behind some of the best podcasts on the planet and they’re ready to help you make your podcast all that it can be. Find them today at www.palmtreepodco.com and on social @palmtreepodco. I helped start The Better Lab because I found that there are many people out there like me who know a lot about sleep and track their sleep and recovery but still struggle to do the things that actually improve sleep. Get the Better Lab app now in the Apple App Store and be more rested, happy and present for the moments that matter most to you in life. Learn more at www.thebetterlab.io and DM @thebetterlabhq and let me know what you think. Watch on YouTube Sign up for the Hard Way Newsletter- - - - - - - - - -  Choose The Hard Way Website | Instagram Andrew Vontz LinkedIn

Kristen Faulkner is an American pro cyclist who won the gold medal in the women’s cycling road race at the Paris Olympics in truly stunning fashion, surpassing two of the most dominant racers in the sport with a bold attack that left them looking at each other while she drilled it to victory. It’s one of my favorite bike races I’ve ever watched. If you want to know what it took for Kristen to get to her gold medal moment, this episode is for you. Remember in life and sport, everything changes. No risks, no champagne. This episode is a replay of my 2023 conversation with Kristen and Spencer Martin, my co-host on Beyond the Peloton, America’s fastest growing independent pro cycling analysis podcast. My whole family loves watching Kristen race and my daughter is one of her biggest fans. After this episode originally aired, Kristen took time to send my daughter a video encouraging her to keep riding and to keep doing the art projects she loves. Trust me when I tell you that’s not something that many world-class athletes would take the time to do. Kristen did, because that’s the kind of human she is. When you reach out and lift people up, it makes a difference. This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. I’ve found that when I get bad sleep, everything in my life is worse and when I get good sleep, everything in my life gets better--I’m a better parent, I’m a better partner to my wife, I’m more creative, I think more clearly, I’m more effective at work and I enjoy riding my bike more. The science to get great sleep is straightforward. But putting it into practice can be really hard. That’s why we built The Better Lab, the app that guides you to mindfully build science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. What works is what you get done consistently and The Better Lab helps you take simple steps every day to be more present, aware and conscious as you build one practice at a time to sleep better. Get the Better Lab app now for free in the Apple App Store and learn more at www.thebetterlab.io. Give it a try and DM me @hardwaypod and tell me what you think. I’d love to hear your feedback. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. Humans like you. Please take a moment to rate this show five stars wherever you listen to podcasts and share this episode with a pal. In This Episode: Kristen Faulkner Instagram, Twitter - - - - - - - - - -  Andrew Vontz LinkedIn Subscribe: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher Sign up for the Hard Way Newsletter Choose The Hard Way is a Palm Tree Pod Co. production 

Legendary Alpinist & Nat Geo Photographer Cory Richards discusses his memoir 'The Color of Everything' and how everything changes. From climbing Mt. Everest to starting over as a writer, he shares his journey of highs and lows, advocating for embracing change and control.

Doing hard things with friends is fun and even when you lose, you win. In 2014 I took second at Unbound 100 and superstar creator and now BJJ black belt @blakeoftoday took third. This episode originally dropped in 2019. I skipped the weddings of several close friends and trained 20+ hours many weeks for months to prepare for this event.  When we did the race and when we originally recorded this episode it kind bummed me out that I didn’t win the race in 2014 or in 2015 when I went back and got second again with a side of food poisoning that left me unable to hold down food for a week after the race. Now I’m just grateful for the memories I have of training for and competing in this brutal event with Blake and for everything that happened along the way. With Unbound coming up this weekend, I wanted to drop this episode again for anyone who is new to the show and anyone has an interest in Unbound. This may be difficult to imagine, but 2014 was a time when there were zero tubeless gravel tires on the market and I ran 50 psi in tubed Clement MSOs and lived. A lot has changed since then and a lot has changed since I created Choose the Hard Way. When I started this project in 2017, I thought the point was to share lessons learned at the limits of human experience. Over time I’ve realized people, including me, forget most of the specific details that they hear on podcasts--but they almost always remember how podcasts make them feel. And at their best, the stories we hear on great podcasts motivate and inspire us to take action and be more present in other areas of our lives. This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. Sleep is the greatest performance enhancer on the planet and the science to improve sleep is straightforward. Putting it into action on your own can be challenging. That’s why I co-founded The Better Lab to help guide active people like you to mindfully build conscious, science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. We’re an early stage startup and right now the Better Lab app is free in the Apple App store. You can find the link in the show notes. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/better-lab/id6479452885 Check it out and as an early user, we want to hear your feedback to help us continually improve the product. Shoutout to Hard Way listeners Chris Scott, Jeffrey Nebolini, Shannon Jones and many others who have been using the app to get better sleep and sharing their feedback with us. Thank you! You can learn more at www.thebetterlab.io.

Joe Petrowski landed a great job as an aerospace engineer right out of college. Then he got the bike racing bug. People told him to stick with his demonstrably awesome, impressive and very high paying gig. Instead, he quit to go live in at times dismal conditions to be a pro cyclist, first in the UK then in France. And if you’re not familiar with domestic pro cycling in France, teams there are known for their extremely old school, hardcore and at times totalitarian approaches.  Joe had some great times and also often wondered if he had made a huge mistake and what the hell he was doing. He never stepped up to the World Tour, the highest level of the sport.  And years later, he thinks going for it as a pro cyclist is one of the best and most important decisions he ever made.  Eventually he left pro cycling and went into computer science, high frequency trading and to what he does now, working on the decentralized web at polkadot.  People who stop doing the thing people who are not them tell them they should do to go do the thing they know they have to do intrigue me. That’s Joe. Don’t forget, you’re the hero in your story, you are writing it every day, and when you hear the call to adventure, listen. It is after all, your story. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun.  This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. Sleep is the greatest performance enhancer on the planet and the science to improve sleep is straightforward. Putting it into action on your own can be challenging. That’s why I co-founded The Better Lab to help active people like you mindfully build conscious, science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. It’s just what works to help you get great sleep and you can get started today at www.thebetterlab.io.  I make this podcast available for free and all I ask is that you go to the show page for Choose the Hard Way on iTunes and Spotify and hit 5 stars. To be in touch, DM me @hardwaypod on Instagram or email choosethehardway@gmail.com. Find Joe at https://petrow.ski/.  Thanks to our sponsor The Better Lab Watch on YouTube Sign up for the Hard Way Newsletter- - - - - - - - - -  Choose The Hard Way Website | Instagram Andrew Vontz LinkedIn