

Tangents by Out of Architecture
Out of Architecture
Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture, hosted by Silvia Lee. We’re highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we’ve met along our journey. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.
Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm started by two Harvard-educated professionals interested in exploring the value of their skills both in and out of the architectural profession. We’re here to help you maximize all of the expertise you have honed as a designer to get you a role that fulfills and challenges you. We have the knowledge, experience, and connections to help you put your best self into the market–and reap the benefits.
Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm started by two Harvard-educated professionals interested in exploring the value of their skills both in and out of the architectural profession. We’re here to help you maximize all of the expertise you have honed as a designer to get you a role that fulfills and challenges you. We have the knowledge, experience, and connections to help you put your best self into the market–and reap the benefits.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 27, 2024 • 57min
The Journey from Architecture to Experiential Design with Future Colossal's Jill Shah
Our guest today, Jill Shah, Production Designer at Future Colossal, shares how she capitalizes on her abilities as a generalist, asserts herself to create opportunities, and harnesses the power of storytelling in design.Highlights:Leverage spatial design skills from architecture in experience design by focusing on technology integration and storytelling instead of just function.As a generalist, talk confidently about your broad skillset and give examples of how you've tackled challenging, multidisciplinary projects.Be assertive in asking for opportunities to expand your role and prove yourself; people appreciate self-starters.Storytelling is key in experience design - use lighting, sound, sequence etc. to evoke emotions.Documentation is critical but often neglected - market your work by taking time to create a "package" about each project.Guest Bio: Jill is a New York-based experiential artist and creative technologist who leverages algorithms to (new)ance our physical environments. Driven by her passion for more humanized nuances in an increasingly mechanized world, her work allows users to touch, feel and ponder over the role that algorithms and technological advancements can play in pushing ‘craft’ to newer boundaries.Jill received her MFA in Design and Technology from Parsons School of Design and since then has served as an Experiential Production Designer at Future Colossal, an award-winning innovation lab that designs and executes memorable interactive spaces. Motivated by the belief that skills and knowledge must be accessible, she is also a passionate educator who has taught design classes and facilitated several technical workshops at the New School.https://jillshahh.com/
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Feb 13, 2024 • 51min
Crafting a Career of Impact with P3 Consulting’s Ozzie Gonzalez
In this episode, I spoke with Ozzie Gonzalez, Principal and Owner of P3 Consulting, (people, planet, profit) about his fascinating journey from architecture into environmental consulting. Ozzie has applied his architecture skills to help companies develop sustainability policies and embed social responsibility into their work. We discuss how Ozzie got started in green building, and expanded into broader corporate strategy during the recession. He shared great insights on working with clients ready for bold change and bringing more creativity into consulting.I appreciated Ozzie’s perspective on creating rich human experiences through his work. It was wonderful to hear how he lives out his values while guiding organizations to address problems in new ways.Highlights:Ozzie was drawn to architecture as a way to create better human habitats after studying environmental science. He was especially interested in sustainability from the start of his career.He started by doing green building consulting for architecture firms before transitioning into teaching sustainability courses during the 2008 recession.Ozzie helped develop sustainability policies and standards for global manufacturing companies, allowing him to have impact beyond individual buildings.He looks for companies talking boldly about sustainability goals but struggling to meet them as potential clients.Ozzie aims to bring creativity into his consulting process through music, art, and playful activities to spark innovation.His goal now is helping people have the fullest human experience possible through his work.Guest Bio:Ozzie is an artist, a problem solver, and a change agent. Trained as an Environmental Scientist and as an Architect, Ozzie has spent his 25-year career journey dedicated to advancing the practice of sustainable and equitable development in communities throughout the US and Latin America. Using his background in the performing arts, Ozzie utilizes story, music, and narrative style to humanize even the most technical subject matter and capture the imaginations of clients and audiences alike.Ozzie has worked in the construction and design industry throughout his career. He has been involved in sustainable design projects, equitable contracting, and now owns his own consulting practice dedicated to helping clients implement strategies to confront the challenges posed by changes in technology, policy, and culture. In addition to running his own consulting practice—P3 Consulting—Ozzie serves as the Board President for Trimet, Portland’s regional transportation authority.And if you're in Portland, Oregon, you can find Ozzie at the Trio Club on Tuesdays leading open mics and playing music!
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Jan 30, 2024 • 41min
Exploring Design and Storytelling in Animation with Freelance Designer Ben Llewellyn
In this conversation, freelance designer Ben Llewellyn, a skilled background artist with roots in architecture, shares his unique journey into the world of animation. He discusses how architectural skills enhance his ability to create realistic environments. Ben reflects on the challenges of freelance life, the importance of networking, and the joy of embracing one's creative identity. He highlights the integral role of storytelling in design and shares exciting insights on his upcoming puzzle book project that melds architecture with narrative.

Jan 16, 2024 • 48min
The Future of Architecture: Shifting Towards Social and Ecological Justice with FAF’s Charlie Edmonds
Our guest, Charlie Edmonds, Co-Founder of Future Architects Front, calls for collective action to address exploitative practices and envisions a world where architecture prioritizes social needs over capital interests.Charlie is the co-founder of Future Architects Front (FAF), a grassroots organization working to address issues like unpaid overtime, low fees, and poor construction quality in the architecture industry.Charlie discusses how he and co-founder Priti became frustrated with the exploitative conditions in architecture and started FAF to advocate for wider political and economic shifts to prioritize social and ecological needs over capital interests.He shares how FAF takes a systems view to trace architecture's problems back to neoliberal policies, and says the Covid pandemic helped reveal many of these flawed structures. Charlie believes organizing labor collectively is key to creating change, and worker unions have historically been powerful forces in achieving better conditions.Highlights:The architecture industry has endemic issues like unpaid overtime, low fees, and poor construction quality.These problems can be traced back to neoliberal policies that prioritized profits over social needs.The pandemic exposed many flaws in work practices and productivity beliefs.Collective labor organizing through unions is a powerful way to create societal change.Architectural skills like visualization can be useful tools for political and social justice campaigns.Solidarity is a crucial concept in driving collective action and working towards a more equitable and sustainable future.Further Reading/Info:Future Architects Front (FAF)Death to the Calling by Marisa Cortwright All Design Is Political, Not All Politics Is Design by Leijia HanrahanThe Funambulist MagazineThe Architecture LobbyArchitectural Workers UnitedGuest Bio:Charlie is a London-based designer and writer working across the fields of architecture, climate transition, and political economy. He is a graduate of the University of Cambridge where he co-founded Future Architects Front with Priti Mohandas. Charlie is a systems designer at CIVIC SQUARE in Birmingham where he works to demonstrate the necessity for a devolved urban climate transition.Through FAF and CIVIC SQUARE, Charlie’s work seeks to establish emergent forms of anti-capitalist organising situated within the (re)production of the built environment.
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Jan 2, 2024 • 1h 5min
From Redlines – Overworked and Undervalued: A Series of Traumatic Experiences In Architecture
We're taking a break from Tangents this week for the holidays so we wanted to share with you the latest episode from Redlines, Out of Architecture's podcast where we dive deeper into the core issues that plague the design profession, and evaluate how they result in everyday conflict, discomfort, and workplace turmoil.You'll hear from Chris (not his real name) and how he faced a series of traumatic and unfair experiences over the course of his architecture career. Despite his lifelong passion for architecture, Chris dealt with difficult bosses, excessive overwork, sexual harassment, lack of appreciation, and ultimately wrongful dismissal. His story highlights the need for positive change in architecture's problematic power dynamics, management issues, and lack of work-life balance. Find out more about Redlines hereOr listen to the rest of Tangents here
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Dec 19, 2023 • 48min
Challenging Traditional Architecture with Intelligent City’s Kristin Slavin
Ever feel traditional architecture moves too slowly to tackle crises like housing shortages?Our latest guest Kristin set out to transform delivery for faster, quality sustainable housing. Her winding path from design into development, prefab and product led her to a mass timber housing startup reimagining solutions.We cover:Kristin's career from architecture to a hands-on developer role empowering new mass timber constructionTransitioning into modular construction and product development at a tech startupNow leading product design for a prefab mass timber housing company scaling impactBelief that systematizing architecture can enable more creative freedomAdvice for architects to explore adjacent roles like development and technologyIn our latest episode we understand how Kristin took control over her career, how she's shaping the future of housing delivery at her mass timber startup, and her advice for how you can diversify your skills and have more impact as a designer.Guest Bio:Kristin Slavin is an expert and thought leader in mass timber construction and low carbon building design, which has led to an impactful, if unconventional, career path in product development. Her extensive experience as an architect, developer, and product manager of mass timber buildings and prefabricated building products has helped drive national building code changes and an industry wide shift to more sustainable building practices. Her built work includes Carbon12, the tallest CLT building in the US at completion. At Intelligent City, Kristin leads the development of the architectural design platform, building typologies, interior design, and building systems accessories, enabling a broad set of solutions for clients from a consistent technology platform. Her goal is to create high quality, low impact, cost effective building solutions using mass timber in a repeatable, systematized way.
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Dec 5, 2023 • 54min
What If We Were The Decision Makers? Creating Impact with Multi-Contextual Design with Duo Development’s Rafael Robles
Our guest today, Rafael Robles, Founder at Duo Development, shares his experiences answering the question for himself of who gets to make the decisions? His journey from real estate, to development, to business strategy consulting led Rafael to found his own innovation studio, Duo, where he practices multi-contextual design, amplifying the impact a built project can have. Thank you for listening and I hope you feel empowered to take your own steps forward into your windy career path.Highlights:Creative, Resilient, CaringThe transition to running your own innovation studioExploring the Concept of Multi Contextual DesignChallenging Traditional Architectural Practices with Norm-making and Form-makingInsights from Working in Business StrategyEstablishing Duo and Its Ethical ApproachCreating New Realities through Multi Contextual DesignWorking with Clients and Own Projects at DuoUnderstanding the Community's Needs and PreferencesIncorporating a Local Restaurant into the Health ClinicSecuring a Federal Grant for Senior ServicesThe Concept of a Building that Shares Profits with Local ResidentsDesigning Starling: A Space for LiberationThe Importance of Context and Flexibility in DesignThe Value of Architectural EducationThe Challenges and Rewards of Starting a CompanyAdvice for Taking Control of Your Career PathThe Importance of Asking for AdviceLearn more about Duo DevelopmentGuest Bio:Rafa Robles is the co-founder and director of Duo. An innovation studio/lab that works to create built environment innovations for the benefit of society, Duo partners with organizations of all types through design, strategy, and innovation services, and by launching ethical real estate development and related ventures. Duo’s multicontextual design approach investigates and activates knowledge, wisdom, and beauty across a generative and evaluative process that explores Norm/Form-making. Their studio applies the lenses of economics, ecology, technology, culture, and ethics to enrich their practice and ensure that their innovations provide a societal benefit. Prior to Duo, Rafa’s work spanned design and innovation at Doblin (a Deloitte business), real estate development at Ranquist Development Group, and architecture at Studio Gang Architects. Since 2011, Rafa has produced numerous projects ranging from research to implementation across contexts and scales. His diverse body of work spans and crosses the boundaries of innovation, design, and business strategy, real estate development, urban planning, building and spatial design, digital ecosystems, visual and graphics, user experiences, and service design.
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Nov 21, 2023 • 41min
Leveraging Design Thinking Beyond Architecture with Brightspot Strategy’s Elliot Felix
What can you do with an architecture degree besides traditional practice? Is it possible to blend your design skills with other passions? Elliot Felix, Founder and CEO of brightspot Strategy, is an architect turned higher education strategist, shares his journey from architecture school to running his own consulting firm. Elliot talks about how an influential middle school teacher inspired him to study architecture, and how that led him to get his undergraduate architecture degree from UVA and a Master's from MIT. After practicing at a large firm for several years, Elliot realized he wanted to better understand the people that architecture serves, so he pivoted to strategy consulting focused on workplace and education. This eventually led him to found his own firm Brightspot, which was acquired by the larger firm Buro Happold. Brightspot focuses on research, vision and strategy for higher ed institutions to improve the student experience.Elliot shares insights on making career transitions, finding meaningful work, taking risks, dealing with challenges, and building support networks. He also discusses his recent book "How to Get the Most Out of College" which contains evidence-based advice for student success.Key Takeaways:Inspiring teachers can spark a career direction from a young ageArchitecture school teaches you to be a creative problem solver"Design thinking" skills are valuable in many fields beyond architecture Making career transitions involves experimenting and testing out optionsFind opportunities to "prototype" new roles to get a feel for the day-to-dayIt's important to understand the people you're designing forStrategy consulting can complement architectural design Look for personal role models to guide your career journeyConcrete goals like "I want to be like X person" are most usefulDevelop a growth mindset to take risks and handle setbacksBuild your support network before you need itLinks:Learn more about brightspot Strategy: https://www.brightspotstrategy.com/Buy Elliot’s book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Most-Out-College/dp/193634257XGuest Bio:Elliot founded and leads brightspot, now a Buro Happold Company. brightspot is a strategy consultancy on a mission to transform the higher education experience with smart strategy that better connects people, programs, and places – on campus and online – to increase student success, improve research support, and enable staff productivity.He is an accomplished strategist, facilitator, and sense-maker who has helped transform over 100 colleges and universities, including Carnegie Mellon University, Georgia Tech, Harvard, MIT, NC State University, New York University, UCLA, University of Michigan, University of Minnesota, and University of Virginia.Elliot is a prolific speaker and writer on reimagining higher education, having presented at conferences including EDUCAUSE, SXSW, SCUP, and Tradeline; having been cited in publications such as Fast Company and Forbes; and written dozens of articles in publications such as Planning for Higher Education, Library Journal, Business Officer Magazine, and Touchpoint: The Journal of Service Design.His book How to Get the Most Out of College was published in January 2022 and provides 127 evidence-based tips for success in college and beyond. It received a blue star from Kirkus Reviews, calling it "A knowledgeable, enthusiastic guide packed with strategies and encouragement."
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Nov 7, 2023 • 45min
The Power of Designing Experiences with Odyssey Works’ Abraham Burickson
Abraham Burickson, founder of Odyssey Works, discusses the power of personalized design experiences and the philosophy behind his approach. Topics include frustrations with traditional architecture practice, the impact of Odyssey Works on participants, finding our North Star, and the transformative power of connection in design.

Nov 1, 2023 • 43min
Bonus: Redlines - Exploitative Visa Practices and Effects on Immigrant Architects
Bonus Episode! Tangents, meet Redlines - our new podcast by Out of Architecture. This episode shines a light on the withholding of critical information by architecture firms to create an uneven power dynamic as firms hold visa sponsorship over young, foreign workers.Our storyteller this week is Cat - a pseudonym - who shares their personal experience with the H1B visa process in the United States and the challenges they faced while working at a reputable architecture firm. Cat discusses the lack of transparency, exploitation, and the difficulty of seeking a life in the US versus other countries. “I asked my employer, can I have my receipt number so I can go into USCIS system to look up whether or not I got selected this time. They told me that there is no longer such a thing as a receipt number. But this contradict with the official statement that USC has put out on their own website, this number obviously exists. It's just my employer decided not to disclose it.”Key takeaways:The path to sponsorship can take years with uncertain resultsLack of transparency in the H1B visa selection processEmployers can legally withhold sponsorship information from workersRisk in the visa process creates opportunities to take advantage of sponsored workersThere are many countries that provide better options for young architectsRedlines on SpotifyRedlines on Apple Podcasts---Join our Patreon for FreeInstagramLinkedInOut Of Architecture Website
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