David Wolman is the author of six books and a magazine features writer who has written for Wired, Outside, and The New York Times. His latest article is ”Vanished in the Pacific.”“I feel like conversations about characters, character development, strong characters gets a little nauseating in my field sometimes because it’s like, of course — you need that like you need periods at the ends of sentences. Do we really have to keep saying it? But in this conversation it’s worth saying, because there are great ideas out there where the sources or the characters just really weren't there and then you’re tucking your tail in between your legs to look for the next one.”Show notes: @davidwolman david-wolman.com 03:00 Aloha Rodeo (Wolman and Julian Smith • Harpers Collins • 2020) 09:00 "The Ultimate Counterfeiter Isn't a Crook—He's an Artist" (Wired • May 2012) 13:00 "The Cold War" (Wolman and Julian Smith • Epic Magazine • Sept 2015) 21:00 Atellan Media 31:00 The End of Money (Da Capo • 2013) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Clint Smith is a poet and a staff writer for The Atlantic. His most recent book is How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America and his latest feature is “Monuments to the Unthinkable.”“I've been to a lot of places that carry a history of death and slaughter and murder. I've been on plantations. I've been in execution chambers. I've sat on electric chairs. I've been on death row. But I have never experienced anything like what I experienced walking through the gas chamber in Dachau. I mean, there's reading books about the Holocaust, and then there's that. And that is something that I hope to continue doing for the rest of my life: putting my body where these things happen. Because it completely transforms your understanding of what it was like.”Show notes: @ClintSmithIII clintsmithiii.com Smith on Longform Smith's Atlantic archive 00:00 How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America (Little Brown • 2021) 01:00 "Monuments to the Unthinkable" (Atlantic • Nov 2022) 17:00 Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City (Matthew Desmond • Crown • 2017) 33:00 The Hemingses of Monticello (Annette Gordon-Reed • W.W. Norton • 2009) 34:00 Counting Descent (Write Bloody Publishing • 2016) 57:00 The Diary of a Young Girl (Anne Frank • 1947) 57:00 Number the Stars (Lois Lowry • Houghton Mifflin • 1989) 1:07:00 "The Stories Tamir Rice Makes Us Remember" (New Yorker • Dec 2015) 1:08:00 Smith's New Yorker archive 1:08:00 "Freddy Adu and the Children of the Beautiful Game" (New Yorker • Mar 2017) 1:09:00 Above Ground (Little Brown • 2023) 1:09:00 Crash Course Black American History Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Grant Wahl was the founder of Fútbol with Grant Wahl, a longtime writer for Sports Illustrated, and the author of The Beckham Experiment and Masters of Modern Soccer. He died on December 10, covering the World Cup in Qatar. This interview was recorded in January 2016.“I never would have predicted I would do soccer full time. And that’s happened. I’d love to say that this was all planned and inevitable but it really wasn’t.”Show notes:  Fútbol with Grant Wahl Wahl's Sports Illustrated archive “Soccer Journalist Dies at World Cup After Collapsing at Argentina Game” (The New York Times) “RIP Grant Wahl” (Chris Wittyngham, Fútbol with Grant Wahl) “Remembering Grant Wahl: A Sterling Example of How to Work With Principle” (Sports Illustrated) “Remembering Grant Wahl, a champion of American soccer” (The Atlantic) “Live like adored soccer writer Grant Wahl and smell those roses” (Indy Star) “There was something Bourdain-like about the big, soccer life Grant Wahl led” (Los Angeles Times) “Grant Wahl's housemate Guillem Balagué pays tribute to US journalist” (CNN.com) “Grant” (Joe Posnanski) “He was the best of us” (former U.S. Men’s National Team Coach Bob Bradley) “US Soccer statement on the passing of Grant Wahl” (US Soccer) “Grant Wahl was my idol and my friend. A selfless, wonderful man” (The Athletic) “To the end, Grant Wahl fought fearlessly for what he believed” (CBC) “He championed soccer in the U.S. and human rights throughout his career” (CBS Mornings) “A love letter to the writing of Grant Wahl” (Holding the High Line) “Mia Hamm 'Heartbroken' Over Grant Wahl's Death: 'Our Game Was Better Because Grant Wahl Was in It'” (People) “How Grant Wahl Changed the Place of Soccer in America” (The New Yorker) “Remembering Grant Wahl” (Medium) “The Best of Us: A Tribute to Grant Wahl” (The Nation) “LeBron James remembrance” (Twitter) “Remembering Grant Wahl” (Sports Illustrated) “The Life and Legacy of Grant Wahl” (Hang Up and Listen) “Witnesses Recount Last Moments Of Soccer Journalist Grant Wahl” (HuffPost) “Billie Jean King remembrance” (Twitter) “Grant Wahl Was a Kind, Wise Champion of the Voiceless in Soccer” (The Guardian) “Grant Wahl's Wife Remembers the Late Soccer Journalist” (NPR) “Soccer Writer Grant Wahl Was the Type of Journalist — and Person — I Want to Be” (Colorado Sun) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan O’Hanlon is a soccer writer for ESPN. His new book is Net Gains: Inside the Beautiful Game’s Analytics Revolution.“It wasn’t just that I was burned out from two years at The Ringer, it was being burned out from nine years of just freakin’ bobbing up and down to keep my head above water, and changing the water every year.”Show notes: @rwohan ryanohanlon.com O’Hanlon’s article archive 05:00 Net Gains (Abrams Books • 2022) 13:00 O’Hanlon’s Run of Play archive 13:00 O’Hanlon’s Grantland archive 13:00 O’Hanlon’s The Ringer archive 22:00 O’Hanlon’s The Good Men Project archive 22:00 O’Hanlon’s Buzzfeed archive 22:00 "Living the Yahoo! Answers Lifestyle" (Buzzfeed • Jun 2012) 23:00 "A Q&A With Red Bulls Goalie and Yonkers Native Ryan Meara" (New York • April 2012) 26:00 No Grass in the Clouds 26:00 O’Hanlon’s Outside archive 33:00 "Bill Simmons Suspended by ESPN for Tirade on Roger Goodell" (Richard Sandomir • New York Times • Sept 2014) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bradley Hope and Tom Wright are former journalists at The Wall Street Journal, the co-founders of journalism studio Project Brazen, and the co-authors of the book Billion Dollar Whale.Their new podcast is Corinna and The King. Hope’s new book is “The Rebel and the Kingdom.”“We’re a little bit skeptical of just jumping into the big story of the day with something that doesn’t feel differentiated. It needs to have character, storytelling — it can’t just be a great topic, or an important topic, even.”Show notes: @bradleyhope @TomWrightAsia Hope’s Wall Street Journal archive Wright’s Wall Street Journal archive 06:00 Billion Dollar Whale (Hachette Books • 2019) 09:00 Project Brazen 10:00 Blood and Oil (Hope and Justin Sheck • Hachette Books • 2020) 19:00 Fat Leonard (Project Brazen • 2021) 25:00 Persona: The French Deception (Evan Ratliff • Verified • 2022) 47:00 "Road Trip! American Student Joins Rebels in Fight for Qaddafi Stronghold" (Hope • The National • Aug 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hanif Abdurraqib is a poet, essayist, and critic whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine and many other publications. His latest book is A Little Devil in America: In Praise of Black Performance.“I learn from hearing my elders tell stories. There’s an inherent knowing of yourself as a vessel for narration who also has to—is required to—hold the attention of others at all costs. And that’s essentially what I’m trying to do. The broader project of my writing is almost a constant pleading of: Don’t leave yet. Stay here with me for just a little bit longer.”Show notes: @NifMuhammad abdurraqib.com Abdurraqib on Longform 02:00 A Little Devil in America (Random House • 2021) 09:00 Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung (Lester Bangs • Anchor • 1988) 10:00 The Crown Ain’t Worth Much (Button Poetry • 2016) 14:00 They Can’t Kill Us Until They Kill Us (Two Dollar Radio • 2017) 20:00 Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest (University of Texas Press • 2019) 25:00 Stakes Is High (De La Soul • Tommy Boy, Warner Brothers • 1996) 33:00 Black Movie (Danez Smith • Button Poetry • 2014) 37:00 Abdurraqib's MTV News archive 39:00 "Mo Salah Is Ready to Make the Whole World Smile" (Bleacher Report • Jun 2018) 44:00 Red Dead Redemption (Rockstar Games • 2010) 47:00 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo • 2017) 47:00 Elden Ring (Bandai Namco Entertainment • 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Audie Cornish is a journalist and the former host of NPR’s All Things Considered. Her new CNN Audio podcast is The Assignment.“I think there is journalism inherent in an interview. Like the interview itself should be considered a piece of journalism. It isn't always. Sometimes the vibe is that it’s a little window dressing or that it's personality driven and I don't subscribe to that. I think that it has its own journalism. It's my journalism.”Show notes: @AudieCornish Cornish's NPR archive 01:00 The Assignment (CNN Audio • 2022) 25:00 "Letters: 'Music Curator' Diplo" (NPR • Jun 2012) 36:00 Cornish’s Twitter thread (Jan 2022) 43:00 Serial (Serial Productions) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Taffy Brodesser-Akner is a staff writer at the New York Times and the creator of the new Hulu television series Fleishman Is in Trouble, based on her bestselling novel.“I took the cast out to dinner … And the way they began talking to each other, which was very intimate, was like a punch in the stomach. Because I had always thought that I got people to open up to me [in celebrity profiles]. And I was like, Oh, no, I got them to answer questions differently than maybe they had before. … And that was a little devastating to me.”Show notes: @taffyakner taffyakner.com  Brodesser-Akner on Longform 00:00 Brodesser-Akner on Longform Podcast (#126) 00:00 Brodesser-Akner on Longform Podcast (#350) 01:00 Brodesser-Akner's New York Times archive 01:00 Brodesser-Akner's GQ archive 01:00 Fleishman Is in Trouble (Hulu • 2022) 01:00 Fleishman Is in Trouble (Random House • 2020) 04:00 "Billy Bob Thornton on Bad Santa 2, Ungrateful Fans, and Why He Won't Direct Anymore" (GQ • Nov 2016) 09:00 "Jimmy Buffett Does Not Live the Jimmy Buffett Lifestyle" (New York Times • Feb 2018) 13:00 "The Gospel According to Marianne Williamson" (New York Times • Sep 2019) 14:00 Erin Brockovich (2000) 17:00 "This Tom Hanks Story Will Help You Feel Less Bad" (New York Times • Nov 2019) 17:00 "What Happened to Val Kilmer? He’s Just Starting to Figure It Out." (New York Times • May 2020) 23:00 Little Miss Sunshine (2006) 23:00 Ruby Sparks (2012) 24:00 "Christian Slater Isn't Mr. Robot, He's Mr. Nice Guy" (GQ • Aug 2016) 27:00 "Water’s Edge" (GQ • Jul 2015) 33:00 "CNN’s Jake Tapper Is the Realest Man in ‘Fake News’" (GQ • Apr 2017) 41:00 "How Goop’s Haters Made Gwyneth Paltrow’s Company Worth $250 Million" (New York Times • Jul 2018) 47:00 Sam Anderson on Longform Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nancy Updike is a founding producer and senior editor at This American Life. Jenelle Pifer, a former Longform Podcast editor, is a senior producer at Serial. Their new three-part podcast, hosted by Updike and produced by Pifer, is We Were Three.Updike: “I say it’s a story that’s a bit about COVID, but really about a family, and that’s the closest I’ve gotten to a short version. I don’t know. Why is that? I never have a short version of something I’m working on—never.”Pifer: “We were doing a lot of talking about, for Nancy, what are the driving questions you tend to be attracted to? There were a few things we came up with, one of which was that you tend to gravitate toward stories where somebody is in the middle of something that they don’t know what to make of yet, and you kind of just want to sit with them and see what direction they walk in, or what they say, or what meaning they put onto something.”Show notes: @jenellepifer jenelle-pifer.com Updike’s This American Life archive Updike’s New York Times archive 05:00Rachel McKibben’s Twitter thread 24:00 Heavyweight #46 Dan (Jonathan Goldstein • Gimlet • 2022) 39:00 Nice White Parents (Chana Joffe-Walt • Serial Productions • 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andy Kroll is an investigative reporter for ProPublica. His new book is A Death on W Street: The Murder of Seth Rich and the Age of Conspiracy.“I think a book has ruined me for writing hot takes and spicy Twitter dunks and all of these other one- and two-dimensional bits of ephemera. I wasn't really a big fan of it in the first place, but I can't do it anymore. A book forces you to look at the world in a much more fine grained, humane, empathetic way, and there's no going back from that.”Show notes: @AndyKroll andy-kroll.com Kroll on Longform Kroll's ProPublica archive Kroll's Rolling Stone archive 01:00 A Death on W Street: The Murder of Seth Rich and the Age of Conspiracy (PublicAffairs • 2022) 21:00 "Ted Cruz’s Secret Weapon to Win the Right" (National Journal • Jun 2015) 22:00 "Ted Cruz’s Howitzer" (New Republic • Jan 2016) 22:00 "The Staying Power of Nancy Pelosi" (The Atlantic • Sep 2015) 22:00 "The Last Days of Jerry Brown" (California Sunday Magazine • Mar 2018) 31:00 "Seth Rich, Slain DNC Staffer, Had Contact with WikiLeaks, Say Multiple Sources" (Malia Zimmerman • Fox News • May 2017) 40:00 Longform Podcast #46: Nicholas Schmidle (Jun 2013) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices