Robert McKee is an author and screenwriting lecturer. His new book is Character: The Art of Role and Cast Design for Page, Stage, and Screen.”When I'm in conversation with others, I'm always aware—or sensitive, at least—to what they're really thinking and feeling. And writers must have that. They can't possibly create excellent nonfiction or fiction if they're not aware of what is going on inside of other people, really, even subconsciously, while they go about saying whatever they do consciously in the world. Because if you just recorded the surface, if you were just paying attention to the surface, you'd be missing the whole show.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @McKeeStory mckeestory.com Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting (Regan Books • 1997) Character: The Art of Role and Cast Design for Page, Stage, and Screen (Twelve • 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ashley C. Ford is the author of Somebody's Daughter: A Memoir.“For the first time I felt like I had so many more choices in my life than I originally thought I had. That was my first realization that I did not just have to react to the world, that I could be intentional in the world, and just curious about what came back to me.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @iSmashFizzle  ashleycford.net Fortune Favors the Bold podcast 5:00 "Roger Loves Chaz" (Roger Ebert • Sep 2012) 11:34 The Giver (Lois Lowry • Houghton Mifflin • 1993) 17:47 Ford's commencement speech at Ball State 26:09 Ford's archive at Buzzfeed 41:00 "Ashley C. Ford’s Debut Memoir ‘Somebody’s Daughter’ Finds Home at Flatiron" (Paperback Paris • 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aaron Lammer is a co-host of the Longform Podcast and the host of the podcast Exit Scam: The Death and Afterlife of Gerald Cotten.“Something I got from a number of reporters that I’ve interviewed on the Longform Podcast is letting the story guide you, and ultimately that led me to an ambiguous ending. Early on, I was like, the pinnacle achievement is to solve this case. But ultimately, I felt like an ambiguous ending was the most honest to what I actually experienced in reporting it.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: 00:30 Exit Scam Podcast 00:45 Francis and the Lights 04:30 CoinTalk™️ 04:45 Jay Caspian King on Longform 05:00 Episode #59: Flashbacks and Fake Beards, a Crypto 2018 Year in Review (CoinTalk • January 2019) 11:00 Stoner Podcast 44:00 Descript 53:00 Jean-Xavier de Lestrade on Longform Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Megha Rajagopalan is a senior correspondent for Buzzfeed News. She won a Pulitzer for her coverage of the Xinjiang detention camps.“It’s not so much that I talk to [the Chinese government] to get information. It’s more that I talk to them to see how they think about things and what’s important to them and what’s their view of the world. … There are so many journalists that have been thrown out of China, so there’s very few people that are able to actually have those conversations. And in the U.S., there are these seismic decisions being made about China policy, and if you don’t talk to the people that run the country, it’s a problem.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @meghara Rajagopalan on Longform Rajagopalan's Buzzfeed News archive 21:00 "This Is What A 21st-Century Police State Really Looks Like" (Buzzfeed News • Oct 2017) 35:00 Rajagopalan’s Pulitzer-winning reporting with Alison Killing and Christo Buschek 41:00 "China Secretly Built A Vast New Infrastructure To Imprison Muslims (Part 1)" (Alison Killing, Christo Buschek, Megha Rajagopalan • Buzzfeed News • Aug 2020) 41:00 "What They Saw: Ex-Prisoners Detail The Horrors Of China's Detention Camps (Part 2)" (Alison Killing, Megha Rajagopalan • Buzzfeed News • Aug 2020) 41:00 "Inside a Xinjiang Detention Camp (Part 3)" (Alison Killing, Megha Rajagopalan • Buzzfeed News • Dec 2020) 41:00 "We Found The Factories Inside China’s Mass Internment Camps (Part 4)" (Alison Killing, Megha Rajagopalan • Buzzfeed News • Dec 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett Swanson is a contributing editor at Harper’s and the author of Lost in Summerland.“You just have to sit there for a long time. That lesson was indisputably crucial for me. Just being willing to talk to someone, even if the first half-hour or hour is unutterably boring, or it doesn’t seem pertinent. These little things, the deeper things, take a while to get at and they kind of burble to the surface at moments when you’re not totally expecting it to happen. So for me, it’s just making myself available for that moment to occur.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: Swanson on Longform 00:30 Lost in Summerland (Catapult • 2021) 00:30 "Lost in Summerland" (The Atavist • December 2019) 00:45 "The Anxiety of Influencers" (Harper’s • September 2020) 10:00 "The Solider and the Soil" (Orion Magazine • December 2017) 11:30 "Men at Work" (Harper’s • November 2019) 20:00 "Political Fictions: Unraveling America at a West Wing Fan Convention" (Paris Review • November 2018) 28:00 “Annie Radcliffe, You Are Loved,” (American Short Fiction Issue #56 • 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dan Rather is a journalist, author, and the former anchor of CBS Evening News.”I knew that being named to succeed Walter Cronkite would put me in a position of inhaling—every day—a kind of NASA-grade rocket fuel for the ego. And that could be dangerous…. In the end, when the red light goes on, it's just you. You're by yourself.… And the longer you're in that role, the more difficult it is to stay true to yourself and to remember who you are and who you want to be.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @DanRather 70 Over 70 (Pineapple Street Studios • 2021) 01:00 Steady Substack newsletter 04:00 Reporting on Hurricane Carla (Sep 1961) 09:00 First night as CBS Evening News anchor (CBS News • Mar 1981) 21:00 Covering the India-Pakistan war (Sep 1965) 28:00 “A Lie, Is a Lie, Is a Lie” (Facebook • Jan 2017) 28:00 "Jim Crow Is Not Dead... And Why We Should Care" (Rather and Steady Team • Steady • Feb 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Katherine Eban is an investigative journalist and contributor to Vanity Fair. Her latest article is ”The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins.””You can't make a correction unless you know why something happened. So imagine—if this is a lab leak—the earth shattering consequences for virology. For the science community, for how research is done, for how research is regulated. Or if it is a zoonotic origin, we have to know how our human incursion into wild spaces could be unleashing these viruses. Because COVID-19 is one thing, but we're going to be looking at COVID-25 and COVID-34. We have to know what caused this.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @KatherineEban katherineeban.com Eban on Longform Eban on Longform Podcast 00:00 Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom (Ecco • 2019) 00:00 "The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins" (Vanity Fair • Jun 2021) 01:00 Nicholson Baker on Longform Podcast 01:00 "The Lab-Leak Hypothesis" (Nicholson Baker • New York Magazine • Jan 2021) 03:00 "The Plague Fighters: Stopping the Next Pandemic Before It Begins " (Evan Ratliff • Wired • Apr 2007) 12:00 @TheSeeker268 14:00 Eban's Vanity Fair archive 16:00 Eban’s Twitter thread 26:00 Alina Chan on Twitter 32:00 "Statement in support of the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China combatting COVID-19" (Peter Daszak and many others • The Lancet • Feb 2020) 34:00 "Origin of Covid — Following the Clues" (Nicholas Wade • Medium • May 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've got something a little different today from our sponsor Apple News+, a sneak peek of a new article by Joshuah Bearman and Rich Schapiro called "Last Chance Hotel." It's a wild story full of misadventure, get-rich-quick schemes gone wrong, and international intrigue. Published by New York Magazine in partnership with Epic Magazine, “Last Chance Hotel” is available right now exclusively in Apple News+. After you listen to this preview, tap here to read or listen to the rest of part one. Part two will be published on June 11, and part three will be available on June 18.  “Last Chance Hotel" is available now, only in Apple News+. Subscription required. New subscribers can try 1 month free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rose Eveleth is the host of Flash Forward and the author of Flash Forward: An Illustrated Guide to Possible (and Not So Possible) Tomorrows.“If I didn’t have that pretty bizarrely insatiable drive to do this stuff and understand things, I don’t know if I’d still be doing this. The curiosity index has to be high in order to make the rest of it worth it. Because otherwise, what’s the point?” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @roseveleth @flashforwardpod @ffwdpresents Flash Forward Podcast 00:30 Flash Forward (Rose Eveleth • Harry N. Abrams • 2021) 21:00 Eveleth's Sample Freelancer Spreadsheet 24:30 Meanwhile in the Future Podcast 39:30 "What If Our Cities Were Smart?" (Flash Forward • April 2021) 40:30 "What If You Could Be Immune To Everything?" (Flash Forward • March 2021) 43:00 "Bodies: This Is Not A Test" (Flash Forward • May 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Theo Padnos is a journalist and author of the book Blindfold: A Memoir of Capture, Torture, and Enlightenment.“I'm trying to tell a story about a person who's attracted to dangerous places and people. I think we all have that within us. I wanted to bring my readers along. So I selected details that we all have in common... I'm trying to invite you along on a journey that you yourself might have taken.” Thanks to Mailchimp for sponsoring this week's episode. Show notes: @TheoPadnos 00:30 Blindfold (Theo Padnos • Simon & Schuster • 2021) 03:00 My Life Had Stood a Loaded Gun: Adolescents at the Apocalypse: A Teacher’s Notes (Theo Padnos • Random House • 2004) 03:15 Undercover Muslim: A Journey Into Yemen (Theo Padnos • Bodley Head • 2011) 10:30 "My Captivity" (Theo Padnos • The New York Times Magazine • October 2014) 12:00 "Life as a Hostage in Syria" (Polly Mosendz • The Atlantic • October 2014) 22:15 Theo Who Lived (David Schisgall • 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices