

Breaking Math Podcast
Autumn Phaneuf
Breaking Math is a deep-dive science, technology, engineering, AI, and mathematics podcast that explores the world through the lens of logic, patterns, and critical thinking. Hosted by Autumn Phaneuf, an expert in industrial engineering, operations research and applied mathematics, and Gabriel Hesch, an electrical engineer (host from 2016-2024) with a passion for mathematical clarity, the show is dedicated to uncovering the mathematical structures behind science, engineering, technology, and the systems that shape our future.What began as a conversation about math as a pure and elegant discipline has evolved into a platform for bold, interdisciplinary dialogue. Each episode of Breaking Math takes listeners on an intellectual journey—whether it’s into the strange beauty of chaos theory, the ethical dilemmas of AI, the deep structures of biological evolution, or the thermodynamics of black holes. Along the way, Autumn and Gabriel interview leading thinkers and working scientists from across the spectrum: computer scientists, quantum physicists, chemists, philosophers, neuroscientists, and more.But this isn’t just a podcast about equations—it’s a show about how mathematics influences the way we think, create, build, and understand. Breaking Math pushes back against the idea that STEM belongs behind a paywall or an academic podium. It’s for the curious, the critical, the creative—for anyone who believes that ideas should be rigorous, accessible, and infused with wonder.If you've ever wondered: What’s the math behind machine learning? How do we quantify uncertainty in climate models? Can consciousness be described in AI? Why does beauty matter in an equation?Then you’re in the right place.At its heart, Breaking Math is about building bridges—between disciplines, between experts and the public, and between the abstract world of mathematics and the messy, magnificent reality we live in. With humor, clarity, and deep respect for complexity, Autumn and Gabriel invite you to rethink what math can be—and how it can help us shape a better future.Listen wherever you get your podcasts.Website: https://breakingmath.ioLinktree: https://linktr.ee/breakingmathmediaEmail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 28, 2025 • 49min
The Future of Physics: Portals to a New Reality
In this conversation, Dr.Vlatko Vedral discusses the complexities of quantum mechanics and its implications for our understanding of reality. He explores the stagnation in physics, the importance of thought experiments, and the potential for new discoveries through technological advancements. Vlatko emphasizes the need for adventurous research and the role of quantum information in shaping future scientific inquiries. He also speculates on the transformative possibilities of quantum technologies and their impact on human perception.Takeaways Quantum mechanics challenges our understanding of reality. The observer effect is central to quantum mechanics. Physics has been stagnant with two main theories for over a century. Technological advancements are paving the way for new experiments. Thought experiments can guide genuine scientific discovery. The integration of quantum mechanics and general relativity is crucial. Quantum information theory expands our understanding of computation. New theories may emerge from the intersection of quantum mechanics and technology. The perception of reality may evolve with quantum technologies. Funding and research approaches need to be more adventurous.Chapters 00:00 Exploring Quantum Reality 04:48 The Stagnation of Physics 08:41 The Clouds of Uncertainty 12:46 Thought Experiments and Their Power 16:01 Five Experiments for the Future 24:54 Technological Feasibility of Experiments 28:27 Quantum Theory and Its Foundations 34:08 The Role of Quantum Information 39:35 Imagining New Realities Through PortalsFollow Vlatko on LinkedIn, Substack, and find their new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Oct 25, 2025 • 50min
AI vs Human Intelligence: The Emergent Mind
In this conversation, Drs. Gaurav Suri and Jay Mcclelland delves into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and human cognition, exploring similarities and differences, the evolution of AI from rule-based systems to learning models, and the concept of emergence in both fields. The discussion also touches on the efficiency of human learning compared to AI, the role of consciousness, and the ethical implications of AI technology.Takeaways AI and human intelligence share similarities in neural network frameworks. Artificial systems lack the goal-directed nature inherent in humans. Humans learn more efficiently than current AI systems. Neural networks can adapt to language nuances better than rule-based systems. Emergence explains how collective intelligence arises from individual components. Memory in neural networks is represented through connections, not individual units. Mathematics is both invented and discovered, shaped by human needs. Understanding consciousness is crucial for AI development. Human misuse of AI poses significant risks. Recognizing ourselves as processes can foster empathy and morality.Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Backgrounds 01:00 AI vs Human Mind: Similarities and Differences 03:32 The Shift from Rule-Based AI to Learning Systems 09:07 Emergence in Cognition: Ant Colonies and Intelligence 15:25 Distributed Representations and Memory Storage 23:53 The Nature of Memory and Its Malleability 25:40 Emergence of Mathematical Concepts 29:50 The Invention vs. Discovery Debate in Mathematics 32:19 Learning Mechanisms: Brain vs. AI 36:48 Consciousness: Function and Implications 41:13 AI Risks: Human Misuse vs. AI Autonomy 43:45 Living with Emergence: Understanding Ourselves and Others 48:22 Exploring the Emergent MindFollow Gaurav Suri on LinkedIn. Follow Jay McClelland on Twitter and find their new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Oct 21, 2025 • 57min
The Giant Leap
In this conversation, Dr. Caleb Scharf discusses the evolution of space exploration, drawing parallels to historical figures like Darwin. He explores the implications of humanity's expansion into space, the challenges of microgravity, and the allure of Mars as a potential habitat. Scharf emphasizes the interconnectedness of space exploration with our daily lives and the future of humanity as a dispersed entity across the solar system.Sign up for Writing Math: https://http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/activities/25-26/writing-mathAD| To sign up for The Curiousity Box go to http://curiositybox.com/BreakingMath and get 25% off your first box with breakmath25Takeaways Humanity's move into space is a new phase of evolution. Space exploration is a continuation of life's four billion year experiment. Microgravity affects human physiology in profound ways. Mars presents both challenges and opportunities for human exploration. Lagrange points offer stable locations for spacecraft in orbit. The moon's composition is closely related to Earth's. Understanding space exploration is crucial for our future as a species.Chapters 00:00 The Concept of Dispersal in Space Exploration 04:54 The Universe's Self-Awareness and Its Implications 08:32 Darwin's Influence on Space Exploration 14:14 Historical Figures in Science and Their Impact 21:59 The Moon Landing: A Complicated History 28:14 Challenges in Spacecraft Navigation 30:13 Effects of Microgravity on Humans and Animals 33:50 The Drive for Interplanetary Exploration 36:39 Understanding Lagrange Points 42:06 Life on Other Planets: Mars and Beyond 48:40 The Future of Humanity in Space 54:41 The Essence of Curiosity 54:57 Embracing the UnknownFollow Caleb Scarf on Twitter, Website, and find his new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Oct 14, 2025 • 31min
Dinosaurs with Rachel Ignotofsky
In this engaging conversation, Rachel Ignotofski discusses her new book Dinosaurs, exploring the fascination with these ancient creatures, the impact of mass extinctions, and the evolution of life on Earth. She highlights the importance of paleontology, the legacy of Mary Anning, and the artistic choices made in illustrating the book. The discussion also touches on the audience for the book, quirky anecdotes from paleontological history, and the significance of understanding deep time in relation to our current ecosystem.AD| To sign up for The Curiousity Box go to http://curiositybox.com/BreakingMath and get 25% off your first box with breakmath25Takeaways Most of us fall in love with dinosaurs around the age of six. Dinosaurs and birds evolved together, sharing the Earth. There have been five major mass extinctions in Earth's history. Nature always bounces back after mass extinctions. Paleontology is constantly evolving with new discoveries. Mary Anning was a pioneer in paleontology, often overlooked. Dinosaurs were not just big lizards; they were diverse and complex. The Cambrian explosion marked a significant evolutionary milestone.Chapters 00:00 The Fascination with Dinosaurs 03:42 Mass Extinctions and Geological Time 06:16 Paleontology and Misconceptions 09:08 Mary Anning: The Mother of Paleontology 11:53 Evolution of Dinosaurs and Marine Reptiles 13:06 The Evolution of Whales 13:42 The Cambrian Explosion and Ancient Creatures 16:12 Favorite Time Periods in Prehistory 18:48 The Book's Audience and Its Appeal 19:03 Anecdotes from the Fossil World 21:53 Art and Illustrations in Science 26:11 The Vastness of Earth History 28:21 Upcoming Events and Future ProjectsFollow Rachel Ignotofsky on Twitter, Instagram, Website, and find her new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Oct 7, 2025 • 40min
Charlatans with Quico Toro
In this conversation, Quico discusses the nature of gullibility and the tactics used by charlatans to exploit people's beliefs. He provides insights into various case studies, including astrology and blood types, and highlights notable charlatans like Baba Ramdev and the impact of mega churches. The discussion also covers modern scams in the crypto space and emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and awareness in navigating a world filled with misinformation and exploitation. It's made known that even the smartest scientists can be fooled by charlatans. Takeaways People are gullible because they care deeply about their beliefs. Charlatans exploit emotional connections to manipulate individuals. Astrology remains popular despite its lack of scientific basis. Baba Ramdev exemplifies a modern charlatan with a yoga empire. Mega churches can exploit vulnerable populations for profit. The crypto space has seen significant charlatanry and scams. Identifying red flags is crucial in protecting oneself from charlatans. The internet allows charlatans to target niche audiences more effectively. Critical thinking is essential in the digital age to avoid exploitation. Understanding one's beliefs can help in recognizing manipulation.Chapters 00:00 Introduction and the Nature of Gullibility 04:25 Understanding Charlatans and Their Tactics 07:29 Case Studies: Astrology and Blood Type Beliefs 09:46 Exploring Notable Charlatans: Baba Ramdev and Others 11:11 The Role of Mega Churches in Exploitation 14:18 Medical Charlatans: Dr. Oz and Dr. Mercola 16:40 The Crypto Grift and Its Impact 21:55 The Legacy of Charlatans: From Alchemy to Crypto 25:07 Identifying Vulnerabilities: The Psychology of Belief 28:53 Case Study: The Rise and Fall of Abraaj 32:05 Future Trends: The Evolution of Charlatanry 34:51 The Impact of Technology on Deception 37:37 Navigating a World of MisinformationFollow Quico Toro on LinkedIn, Substack, and find his new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Sep 30, 2025 • 1h 5min
Economica with Victoria Bateman
In this conversation, economist Dr. Victoria Bateman discusses the critical role of women in shaping economic prosperity throughout history. She argues that women's choices, independence, and labor have been overlooked in traditional economic narratives. The discussion covers various themes, including the impact of women's marriage decisions on population control, the relationship between women's independence and technological advancements, and the historical marginalization of women in economic history. Bateman emphasizes the importance of recognizing women's contributions to economic growth and the need for policies that support women's rights and independence.Takeaways Women's choices have historically shaped economic prosperity. Independence in marriage decisions leads to smaller families and economic stability. Women's labor is crucial for technological advancements and economic growth. Democracy is sustained by empowering women and encouraging their participation. The historical narrative often overlooks women's contributions to the economy. Property rights for women are essential for their economic independence. The blend of market and state influences leads to successful societies. The cult of female modesty restricts women's economic participation.Chapters 00:00 The Hidden Role of Women in Economic History 08:03 Impact of Women's Economic Freedom on Society 14:41 Democracy and Women's Independence 21:31 The Gender Gap in Economics 27:50 Household Dynamics and Unpaid Labor 35:03 Property Rights and Women's Economic Roles 38:24 Empowering Women: The Role of Economic Freedom 42:11 The Interplay of Markets and States 44:43 The Cult of Female Modesty: Historical Context 55:58 Modern Parallels: Women’s Freedom and Economic Prosperity 59:24 Lessons from History: Women as Economic Drivers 01:04:04 Revisiting Historical Narratives 01:04:29 Conclusion and Call to ActionFollow Dr. Victoria Bateman on Twitter, BlueSky, Instagram, Website, and find her new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Sep 9, 2025 • 60min
Blueprints with Marcus du Sautoy
In this conversation, Marcus Du Sautoy explores the intricate relationship between mathematics and various forms of art, including music, literature, and visual arts. He discusses how mathematical concepts such as prime numbers, symmetry, and randomness influence creative processes and artistic expressions. Through examples from renowned artists like Shakespeare and Dali, Du Sautoy illustrates how mathematics serves as a blueprint for understanding and creating art, while also emphasizing the emotional and aesthetic dimensions of both fields.Takeaways Mathematics and art are deeply interconnected. The circle is fundamental to both mathematics and nature. Prime numbers are essential building blocks in mathematics. Music often employs mathematical structures for creativity. Shakespeare used prime numbers to disrupt rhythm. Symmetry plays a crucial role in both art and mathematics. Dali's work reflects his fascination with scientific ideas. Theatre allows for abstract exploration of mathematical concepts. Ambiguity is embraced in art but avoided in mathematics. Randomness can lead to unexpected creative outcomes.Chapters 00:00 Blueprints of Mathematics and Art 02:35 Defining Creativity and Its Interplay 04:24 Mathematicians as Collaborators with Artists 07:17 The Fractal Nature of Jackson Pollock's Art 12:54 The Significance of Circles in Mathematics 16:31 Exploring the Mystery of Prime Numbers 19:52 The Role of Primes in Music Composition 28:01 Mathematics and the Structure of Music 29:00 The Mathematical Foundations of Music 31:50 Art and Mathematics: Dali's Exploration 38:56 Theatrical Structures and Mathematical Concepts 43:46 The Distinct Narratives of Numbers and Art 48:07 Symmetry and Randomness: Blueprints of Creativity 58:49 Exploring Creativity Through MathematicsFollow Professor du Sautoy on Twitter, BlueSky, and find his new book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Sep 5, 2025 • 47min
Unequal with Eugenia Cheng
In this conversation, Eugenia Cheng discusses the importance of making math accessible and engaging for everyone, particularly those who have been discouraged by traditional education methods. She emphasizes the intersection of math and art, the dangers of oversimplifying complex issues with numbers, and the need for a more nuanced understanding of equality and fairness in society. Cheng also highlights the significance of mentorship and the impact of gender dynamics in mathematics, advocating for a more inclusive approach to learning and appreciating math as a creative and thoughtful discipline.Takeaways Many people are put off math due to early education experiences. Math and art should not be pitted against each other. Creativity is essential in STEM fields. Numbers can oversimplify complex realities. Understanding inequality requires recognizing its nuances. Context matters in mathematical reasoning. We often forget important details in data interpretation. Math can be appreciated without full understanding. Building confidence in math is crucial for everyone. Mentorship plays a vital role in academic success.Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Mathematical Laziness 04:21 The Journey of a Mathematician 06:57 Creativity in Math and Art 09:33 Understanding Inequality through Math 11:57 The Dangers of Simplifying with Numbers 15:07 Political Debates and Mathematical Perspectives 17:15 The Importance of Context in Math 17:44 Category Theory and Abstraction in Math 20:29 Neutrality and the Gray Areas of Equality 24:02 Exploring Equality and Its Nuances 25:17 Mathematics in Real-World Contexts 28:49 The Intersection of Math and Marginalized Voices 32:39 Overcoming Gender Bias in Mathematics 35:28 The Role of Gut Instinct in Math 37:54 The Surprising Aspects of Writing a Book 42:51 Building Confidence in Math for Everyone 46:15 Rethinking Fairness and Structural ChallengesFollow Eugenia on Twitter, BlueSky, and on her Website Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

Aug 28, 2025 • 4min
Breaking Math: When Math Meets a Technology Glitch
This week’s episode isn’t our usual deep dive—it’s a behind-the-scenes update. On Monday, Breaking Math vanished from Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and more without warning. After digging in, we discovered a strange RSS glitch that merged our feed with another podcast.In this quick update, Autumn shares: What happened behind the scenes when the show disappeared Which platforms are already fixed (and which we’re still waiting on) How you can make sure you never lose track of Breaking Math again What to expect from upcoming guest episodesFollow Breaking Math online:Website: https://www.breakingmath.io/YouTube: youtube.com/@breakingmathpodTwitter/X: @breakingmathpodBluesky: breakingmath.bsky.socialInstagram: @breakingmathmediaFacebook: Breaking Math CommunityThanks for sticking with us—we’ll be back with a brand-new episode on Tuesday.

Aug 19, 2025 • 34min
Hate the Game
In this conversation, Dr. Daryl Fairweather, chief economist at Redfin, discusses her book “Hate the Game,” that frames life and career decisions as strategic games. She emphasizes the importance of understanding economic principles to navigate personal and professional challenges, negotiate effectively, and reclaim agency in various aspects of life. Fairweather shares insights on overcoming barriers related to race and gender, the impact of information asymmetry, and the significance of designing one's own path in a competitive environment. The conversation highlights the necessity of introspection, strategic thinking, and the ability to adapt in a world that often feels rigged against certain individuals.Takeaways Life can be viewed as a game where strategic decisions matter. Negotiation requires awareness of both your and your employer's options. Workplace bullying can be addressed with strategic approaches. Information asymmetry can hinder career advancement; awareness is key. Barriers in academia can be overcome with strategy and support. Race and gender dynamics play a significant role in economic opportunities. Balancing strategic thinking with empathy is crucial for long-term success. You can still achieve your goals despite systemic unfairness.Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Economic Principles 03:57 Understanding Economic Cheat Codes 07:08 Navigating Career Options and Negotiations 09:39 Dealing with Workplace Dynamics 11:33 Information Asymmetry in Decision Making 14:02 Designing Your Own Game 15:06 Identity and Power in Economics 17:21 Overcoming Barriers in Economics 25:51 The Impact of Housing on Economic Understanding 30:38 Applying Economic Theory to Relationships 33:02 Winning in a Rigged Game 34:01 Life as a Game: Making Informed Decisions.Follow Daryl on Twitter, BlueSky, Instagram, LinkedIn and on her Website Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter BlueSky, TikTok, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com


