Queer Theology

As a way to be more inclusive and expand these podcasts even more, we are going to feature conversations with Queer Theology podcast listeners. For the next couple of weeks, we will interview different folks and they will share with us their favorite Bible stories and their own journey. This week, we interviewed Indigo Rose who is a published poet, a teacher and an author. We hope that you’ll enjoy these types of podcast episodes — we’d like to do even more interviews with listeners, as well as activists, musicians, parents, and more. If you do, and would want for us to continue doing this work. We would appreciate it if you visit and support us over at patreon.com/queertheology. Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast. Last week was episode 300! Can you even believe it? B: I can hardly believe it.  FS: It was so great to celebrate with all of you. We talked a little bit about what the past six years has meant to us and where we are headed for the future. Just as a reminder, we launched an amazing Patreon, so that you can support this work and keep it moving into the future strongly. You can check that out at patreon.com/queertheology.  We talked about wanting to be able to feature more voices and so for the next couple of weeks, we are going to feature some interviews with folks that listen to the podcast, who wanted to share some of their favorite Bible stories, and also talk a little bit about what their journeys have been. So we are super excited to feature those for the next couple of weeks. B: Yup! First up is Indigo Rose and we chatted the other day about a bunch of things including two of her favorite Bible passages, we talked about sex and spirituality, we talked about navigating unaffirming family and spaces, we talked about loving across disagreements, and finding the divine in differences. It was a really great conversation and I’m looking forward to sharing that with you now. FS: Yes, so a little bit more about Indigo. Indigo Rose attended college in Pasadena CA. She now teaches in Pasadena CA after traveling around the country in different educational environments.  She is a published poet under a different name and can be found on Twitter @SinQueerlyRose. She has a book that can be found on Amazon called Careful with Her Memory.  She looks forward to a career as a mental health professional, teacher, poet, and author. [Interview starts] B: I’m so excited to be doing our first guest interview of this little series that we are doing right now. I am joined today with Indigo Rose. Indigo Rose: Hi! B: Thanks for being here Indigo. We met a month or so ago, and had been dreaming it out being this happening ever since. So it’s exciting to have you here today. For those of the folks listening at home who don’t know you yet, can you tell us your pronouns and some of the identities that are important to you? IR: Yeah, sure. So I’m Indigo Rose, my pronouns are she/her/hers and I identify as a bisexual, bipolar queer individual. That’s basically, my core identities are those things and I really relate to these things in good and sometimes negative ways. But it’s all really a part of who I am. B: Well, thank you for being here! IR: Yeah! B: So can you tell us just a little bit about your faith journey that has brought you from there to this moment. IR: Okay. I grew up without really a religious background. I grew up kind of agnostic: not really knowing which way was up, kind of deal. I ended up going to a Christian college just because I thought they would be like a good influence on me, and there would be good people, and I would be chill and happy. My freshman year was like hell on earth. I was really overweight, I was on 13 pills a day for my bipolar, and I was not in control of my body, mind, or spirit. I really didn’t find support in that group, so that was really hard. But as I started to study scripture through the classes that I had, I was, there’s Jesus. There they are! I really fell in love with Christ and just that tender, loving, beautiful, wonderful, complicated being that is Jesus. So as I fell in love with Christ, I began to be able to fall in love with people. Then I left college and I felt very disconnected from my faith. This is really random, but I think it’s important somehow: I didn’t have sex until I was 24. I described it before in some of my poetry and stuff, but my body felt like a dying bomb that was going to attack other people and destroy whatever is good inside of me. So I just didn’t explore that at all for a really long time. I moved to Nashville, did that whole scene, and then I had sex for the first time. It was amazing, great, really fun, really enjoyed it.  B: Wohoo!!! IR: Very sex-positive person! It was just [laughing] sorry my fiance is looking at me like “What’s happening?” I’m just giggly. I knew I was queer the whole time, I knew I had a desire for both genders or whatever gender is, whatever. I had a desire for different types of people. I really didn’t explore that until this place called Nature’s Classroom which you have a mug of Nature’s Classroom right there.  B: And I’m drinking some delicious hot chocolate out of it. IR: Nature’s Classroom was a really informative experience for who I am now. I was there for two years, for different seasons. It really changed my perspective because I wasn’t around Christians anymore who are so closed and conservative. I was around just people who weren’t trying to box themselves into religion and stay secured in it that sad, scary space just thinking God has to be one thing. You know? Then I went online [laughs], as you do. I went on OkCupid and found this lovely, wonderful person. I knew from “go”, I knew from seeing her picture that she was the person. My heart just dropped in such an insane way, because I was “Oh, this is literally it.” If she swipes right then this is gonna happen. So then she did! And it’s been a magical, wonderful, crazy, complicated experience ever since.  B: That’s lovely! We can chat more about finding our people online, so then we fast forward to a few months ago, Father Shay, my Queer Theology co-founder was in LA visiting and we were doing some work. So we had a QueerTheology.com meetup and met you and your fiance, Beatrice, for the first time. So how did you get connected to QueerTheology.com and the podcast? IR: Yeah! So I was, “Okay! I met the person. She has a vagina. What do I do?” I just felt very insecure about that. I’ve always been in love with Jesus and I wanted to reconcile that with the person of Christ, and with the scriptures, and with myself. I wanted to feel, not just feel, but know that I was not necessarily damned or anything, I don’t really care about that kind of stuff. It was just kind of silly to think about your life that way all the time. That would drive anyone insane. I wanted to know that God’s love was for me, too. And not in spite of my queerness, but because of my queerness. I don’t know, we just met and connected. I Googled QueerTheology and it happened. The first podcast I listened to by you guys was God Trusts You to Pick Your Partner. I was, “Okay, good!” I breathe the sigh of relief in my living room, and I was “Okay. Oh my God. That’s it. That’s what I needed to hear. That’s all I needed to hear and know.” There is a different perspective and it is truth. So, yeah! B: Cool! Glad that that message landed with you. IR: Yeah, totally! B: So when was that? IR: That was, Oh God! December, probably, of last year. Yeah. So December of two thousand gay-teen.  B: [Laughs] two thousand gay-teen! I love it! So have you continued looking into the podcast since then? What’s your relationship with them and the podcast since that first episode?  IR: We used to listen collectively a lot and just talk about it. We’ve fallen off of that. But I still listen to it pretty fuckin’ often – it’s great! I don’t feel like it’s queerness laid on top of something. I feel like it’s queerness incorporated and tangibly there already, and really just sucking it out for people to see it kind of deal. So I really appreciate that about the podcast. B: Yeah! So now I know that you got some passages that you’re jazzed to talk about, and to suck the queerness out that is already there. This is the queer Bible podcast so we can, even though we’re doing these interviews we love the Bible still, somehow. So we can’t let it go. We’re gonna read two passages, this week for the podcast. Then Indigo is going to give us a queer message about them.  So we’re gonna be reading Romans 1:24 – 2:8, so if you are a queer person and you’re familiar with Romans 1… IR: You’re welcome. This is gonna be great. B: Yeah! Just trust us to take you on… IR: Trust me, it’s gonna be okay. B: We’re going on a journey together. And then also, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31. So Indigo, can you read the Romans passage for us. IR: This is from the message. So God said, in effect, “If that’s what you want, that’s what you get.” It wasn’t long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because they traded the true God for a fake god, and worshiped the god they made instead of the God who made them—the God we bless, the God who blesses us. Oh, yes! Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. [That’s really important, and I’m gonna come back to that]. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches. Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. They made life hell on earth with their envy, wanton killing, bickering, and cheating. Look at them: mean-spirited, venomous, fork-tongued God-bashers. Bullies, swaggerers, insufferable windbags! [I love that!] They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. Stupid, slimy, cruel, cold-blooded. And it’s not as if they don’t know better. They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best! Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn’t so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you’ve done. You didn’t think, did you, that just by pointing your finger at others you would distract God from seeing all your misdoings and from coming down on you hard? Or did you think that because he’s such a nice God, he’d let you off the hook? Better think this one through from the beginning. God is kind, but he’s not soft. In kindness he takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life-change. You’re not getting by with anything. Every refusal and avoidance of God adds fuel to the fire. The day is coming when it’s going to blaze hot and high, God’s fiery and righteous judgment. Make no mistake: In the end you get what’s coming to you—Real Life for those who work on God’s side, but to those who insist on getting their own way and take the path of least resistance, Fire! B: Great! And I’m going to read 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 and this will be from the Common English Bible. And I love this passage also. Christ is just like the human body—a body is a unit and has many parts; and all the parts of the body are one body, even though there are many. We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body, whether Jew or Greek, or slave or free, and we all were given one Spirit to drink. Certainly the body isn’t one part but many. If the foot says, “I’m not part of the body because I’m not a hand,” does that mean it’s not part of the body? If the ear says, “I’m not part of the body because I’m not an eye,” does that mean it’s not part of the body? If the whole body were an eye, what would happen to the hearing? And if the whole body were an ear, what would happen to the sense of smell? But as it is, God has placed each one of the parts in the body just like he wanted. If all were one and the same body part, what would happen to the body? But as it is, there are many parts but one body. So the eye can’t say to the hand, “I don’t need you,” or in turn, the head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you.” Instead, the parts of the body that people think are the weakest are the most necessary. The parts of the body that we think are less honorable are the ones we honor the most. The private parts of our body that aren’t presentable are the ones that are given the most dignity. The parts of our body that are presentable don’t need this. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the part with less honor so that there won’t be division in the body and so the parts might have mutual concern for each other. If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part gets the glory, all the parts celebrate with it. You are the body of Christ and parts of each other. In the church, God has appointed first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, the ability to help others, leadership skills, different kinds of tongues. All aren’t apostles, are they? All aren’t prophets, are they? All aren’t teachers, are they? All don’t perform miracles, do they? All don’t have gifts of healing, do they? All don’t speak in different tongues, do they? All don’t interpret, do they? Use your ambition to try to get the greater gifts. And I’m going to show you an even better way. Okay, Indigo! IR: Yes! B: Pull out the juicy queerness for these passages for us. IR: So I feel like, in my experience, it’s been really interesting to see how the Bible can be translated, and how that doesn’t take away, so this is not written by a bunch of white men in seminary doesn’t mean that it’s not valid and still truth. I think God’s word speaks in different languages, different forms, different whatever. I feel that that was essential in my understanding of queerness and scripture was interpretation is really key, and interpretation is the way that we get to ourselves. We have to exegete we’re not doing the work of God well.  With this passage I see that, I often think of people, my future mother-in-law, who is very conversative. She has written us many letters about how she is very sad about our choice to be ourselves, and that kind of stuff. It’s really getting heard, but it’s also propelling me forward because if you’re doing that to me, I wonder how I can love you in spite of that and be like Christ. But also be not abused by that, you know? B: That tension is so important IR: It’s such a weird thing. Susan Rusell, the person who is marrying us, she has this great benediction that she says often which is “May you have the strength or the power to love, serve, and resist people.” And those are all a triangle, there are also not a mess right? So I feel like that’s really important when you are in community with people you disagree with who you are and who God has made you. It’s hard because they’re thinking that they are doing it out of love, and they think they’re doing it. They think Romans 1 is often a clobber passage for LGBT people, and it often seems like people aren’t really looking at Jesus. They aren’t really looking at what they did on earth or in heaven or any of that. They are just looking at, they’re reading scriptures literally in a way that’s not really helpful to anybody. So I think that’s really interesting to unpack that and be “Okay, what can we actually do to see each other for who we are?” Kind of deal. And I think these passages address that very well. B: As you mentioned, and I think everyone knows that Romans 1 is totally a passage that anti-queer people will say, “Look! This is why you shouldn’t be gay.” Right? It’s so wild to me because now when I read it, I’m like, You motherfuckers! This passage is about you! You’re the wrong ones and you’re going to burn in hell.  Before we started recording you were talking about sometimes there’s something holy about disagreement and finding God — disagreement as a way to help you find, point you towards truth. Can you share more about how do we not look at this passage from a defensive posture, but find something life giving in Romans 1, of all places. IR: Yeah, I know it’s crazy. Let me just open it up and let me dissect it for you a little bit. I think the one thing that I look up is the “all lust, no love”. That part of it really struck me very well in this interpretation in this passage because it addresses the fact that queerness in itself is not a sin. It’s always the intent behind what you’re doing. When he calls them insufferable windbags, and swaggerers, and bullies. This has nothing to do with queers this has to do with your actions and how you’re choosing to inhabit your body, inhabit your soul, inhabit your space, and your community. I fell that this has nothing to do with being queer, I think it really has to do with how the way people lose themselves to sin, and lose themselves to things that are actually sin. Love is love, and I know that’s really cheesy, but it’s totally true. I think, Christ shows up in the margins of that love and He shows up everywhere and in every situation, and take away that burden of seeing queerness as sin. We can live fully alive as God intended. B: You can identify as a Christian, a queer-Christian or an anti-gay Christian and still an insufferable windbag, right? Being a Christian, or not being queer, being queer is not… IR: Exactly. Yeah, or saying your Christian… or whatever. That’s not the point! B: That’s not the point! IR: It has nothing to do with that. I’m sorry. B: I love this, “all lust, no love” also stuck out to me because I’m someone who loves to have a lot of casual sex. I’ve found in that, that that can also be holy and sacred and that there can be, with someone whose name I don’t know, a lot of love, and care, and attention. There are people who are married, like monogamously, heterosexually married, and there’s abuse, and neglect, and violence happening in their sex lives. So, “all lust, no love” doesn’t mean committed, married sex, not casual sex. It is, what you were saying, beyond the surface, what is at the heart. IR: I had sex for the first stand on a one-night stand and I was just like, “I just wanna fuck someone and this is gonna be great.” We had sex for literally six to eight hours. I was, “Hey! This is great! I didn’t know why I didn’t do this before!” But I think for me, it was when I was ready and when I was secure with myself, and secure with who I was. I think that’s what we need to be secure with ourselves and where we are with God and with each other. Literally, the point of being alive is just being a whole person and trying to find that journey. B: My first time having queer sex was also a one-night stand, and I wrote a prayer for him… IR: Aw! I love that! B: …in a first Spit & Spirit for the Sex and Bodies issue, and then, so this was fourteen years ago. When I was in college, moved to New York, fast forward I moved back to LA, and I reconnected with him because he lives four blocks away from me now. So we met up a few weeks ago for the first time since then.  IR: Wow!!! That’s crazy! B: We talked about everything that has happened since. I was like, “I wrote a prayer about you.” He is not Christian, I read it for him and he cried, and he was, “Really amazing!” We’ve been Facebook friends ever since, but sat in the same room for the first time which is… I should’ve been video taping this.  Okay, that’s Romans. How does 1 Corinthians go together with this passage and what you want to highlight today. IR: I think that there is a real diversity in Christ body, obviously, and the ways we interpret who Christ is, but I feel there is that tension that can be positive if you let it be. Instead of it being a burden or this sad, discouraging: you’re gonna always dislike me because I’m queer or hate me inside of yourself because you think that’s what God wants you to do, kind of thing. But I think that it’s about not self-rejecting in a way, who God has made you to be. I feel like that within that, if the eyes are not part of the body, if you’re a queer person saying, “I’m not part of the body of Christ because I’m queer.” It’s really damaging and hard. I think we need to invent our own space within the body of Christ. I think that God is making room for that as we get more rights, and get more secure in what we are doing, and who we are in this community of the world, you know? So I think that’s really important and a really cool journey to be on. B: Yeah! So I know that for me, sometimes reading the Bible has felt like academic, philosophical exercise IR: Totally! Yeah! I studied Bible in college. I know, I’ve exegeted things, how to do the Greek, and the Hebrew, and blah blah blah. B: Yeah! It becomes, oh yeah, this is really exciting and inspiring you, or whatever, but it’s only alive in my head. How have you lived out these learnings from Romans and 1 Corinthians in your life? IR: Oh gosh! Just by being steady and patient with myself and other people. Knowing at the core of everything is God. To love another person is to see the face of God. I think that’s really important that’s going on our pamphlet for our wedding, our little liturgy. I think that if you open yourself up to that idea, you will change immediately and gradually, and I look forward to that change in people. I look forward to people staying the same too, and the way that they have been created, and that diversity is really important. Yeah, I don’t know, it’s been a journey and I’m still learning is the point. And I will always be changing, and learning, and growing. If I’m doing it right, I’ll be a totally different person in ten years, and ten years from that. It will all be because of Beatrice, my love, and also other people in my journey. You have to let in different types of perspectives in order to make you stronger. So yes! That’s really important. B: That’s a beautiful message for us start to wrap up with and so, as we’ve said recently, we just passed the 300th episode of this podcast which is wild. We turned six, earlier this year. So as we look to the future of the podcast, we want to bring in more voices like Indigo, bring you back in the podcast perhaps, do a series looking at musicians, and artists, and activists, and things like that. And also just keep this podcast going, it takes a lot of time, and energy, and money. So if this podcast is meaningful to you, we would love for your support, we’re doing a big push right now, you may go to patreon.com/queertheology, whether it’s $1, or $5, or $50. We will cherish your support and there’s some perks over there, so check that out. Before we go, I’m obsessed with poems as prayers, and as it turns out, Indigo is a published poet that has a poem here to close out our time together, so thank you so much for being on the show with us Indigo. Thank you at home for listening, and here is a prayer. IR: This is called Sins and Songs. My heart was designed to be destroyed, disintegrating beneath the acid tongue of past lives. Circling me like sharks. Only I’m in the water. Salt from my wounds, uncleaned, unseen. Then I see you sitting pretty on the beach. Mostly dead too, but also partially alive. In your particles, you lived before me, during me, after. The road is long, but the Christmas lights are off now and I must have you. Not must, but should. Not should, but could. If I’m blessed with the challenge of your silly, sweet head. The kind that comes from coming out. Only coming out could’ve brought you here my love. On the edges of your psyche with me in the middle of the God. Her divine love at the center swimming, singing, sins and songs. B: Blessings to you! IR: You too! B: Thank you. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: Two of Indigo’s favorite Bible verses Her views on sex and spirituality The journey she took around unaffirming family Love and disagreements The divine in differences About our featured guest: Indigo Rose Indigo attended college in Pasadena CA. She now teaches in Pasadena CA after traveling around the country in different educational environments. She is a published poet under a different name and can be found on Twitter @SinQueerlyRose. She has a book that can be found on Amazon called Careful with Her Memory. She looks forward to a career as a mental health professional, teacher, poet, and author. The post Divine in the Differences, feat Indigo Rose – Romans 1:24 – 2:8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

300 episodes. We can hardly believe it. In this week’s episode, we reflect on the past 6 years of QueerTheology.com, what the LGBTQ Christian space was like back then, how it’s changed, and what we’re looking forward to in the future. We give a queer take on each of our favorite Bible passages (of course!). And we get vulnerable and share how we need some help from you. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Sticher, and Spotify Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast!   Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns    B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy.   OMG, you guys, gals, and non-binary pals. This is episode 300 of Queer Theology Podcast.   FS: 300!   B: Episode 300. Shay, can you even believe it?   FS: Cannot believe it. This is wild. 300 episodes. It’s been so much fun. It feels like we just started, and it also feels like we’ve been doing this forever.   BS: For our entire lives, yeah.   FS: Yes. It’s wonderful all around. So happy 300 to you, Brian, and to all of our listeners. We’re so grateful for all of your support over these many, many years. This is the sixth year of Queer Theology.   B: Happy episode 300 to you, as well. When we started this 300 episodes ago, you were like, let’s start a weekly Bible podcast. And podcasts were not nearly as popular, and also people weren’t doing seasons. So we just dove right into a weekly podcast, and it just kept on going and going and going.   We found out recently that this is the longest running LGBTQ Christian podcast, which is really cool and an honor. And so we’re going to talk about the Bible in this episode, but also we want to take some time to reflect on the past six years.   So Shay, what is this past six years meant to you?   FS: Yeah, it’s wild to think about what was happening in the LGBTQ Christian space six years ago.   B: Oh my God, I know.   FS: Right? Yeah, so six years, so 2013. And at that point when you and I came up with this idea to start this website and also the podcast: the podcast was one of the first things that we started along with the website, was this sense that there were only two things really happening. There was apologetics work, like looking at those seven clobber passages.   B: Yeah, is it okay to be LGBT? Sort of always defending yourself against these, like you were saying, seven passages. That people have been doing for decades, right?   FS: Always, always, always. So there was that work. And then there was like queer theology work that was happening in academia that was amazing and life giving and totally unaccessible to anyone.   B: Very dry, very dense.   FS: Yeah. And so we wanted to step into this space of like we believe that we can set aside the “is it okay?” conversation, like we’re done with that.   B: Spoiler alert.   FS: And we can create life-giving resources that are accessible to everyone. So when you look around now and you see all of these books, none of that existed six years ago. We were really the first people in that space to do this kind of accessible queer theology work. And it’s been so beautiful to watch it grow and to watch people find life in it.   B: It was lonely in the beginning.   FS: It was so lonely.   B: A lot of people didn’t get it, a lot of people thought that we were too far out there, that we needed to be more patient. There were no other sort of popular podcasts, or like you were saying, books or YouTube channels, and so we got a lot of flack for presenting this sort of bold, justice-oriented, queer and trans centered, body positive, sex positive, radically inclusive version of Christianity. And taking the text each week and giving it a queer take, and looking at the clobber passages, but from a completely different perspective, and finding our queerness in other parts of the Bible, like your sermon on Ezekiel and the dry bones, and your book on Doubting Thomas. It’s been cool, also, to see other people sort of like catch the fire and step up and start sort of offering their own perspectives doing this work as well. So it’s been really cool to watch this sort of the queer Christian space shift over, over time.   FS: Yeah, it’s amazing, right? That I would say our first three years were a lot of people telling us that we were moving too fast, that we weren’t being nice enough, that we really needed to have patience, and love, and concern for all of the people that were screaming that we were going to hell.   B: Yeah.   FS: And we were like, no, actually we’ve done that long enough. We’re going to do something different. And to watch now that that tide has turned. And I really think that we were on the front edge of turning that tide. And so I feel really grateful for my own stubbornness, and for your stubbornness, and for being stubborn with you. I think the two of us together were able to prop each other up when it got really hard. And there’s been a lot of really, really hard over the last six years in the midst of the really, really beautiful, right? It’s not easy to do this work, and to have been, I think, often so far out ahead of the rest of the folks that are doing this work. And really being the first to pave a way requires more energy and effort. And there’s been a cost, and it’s been tough, but it’s also been good. And now here we are at episode 300.   B: Oh my God, mind is blown. Yeah. But I’m like really proud of the past six years. I’m not sure that I’ve stuck with anything for six years other than my relationship with Peter. It’s been beautiful. And I really loved and appreciated the folks that I have met along the way through this work. People that listen to the podcast and then write in or follow us on Twitter, and we get to know each other virtually, or have come to meetups, or we met at conferences, or have joined Sanctuary Collective and we get to go deeper together.    It’s been really cool.    And some some folks are only with Queer Theology for a season, and they find their health and healing and hope, and they move on to other parts of their lives. And some folks have been with us and supporting us and a part of this community online for all six years, and so some amazing relationships have come out of it as well. And everyday we’re sort of meeting new folks and that’s been really cool. So yeah, I’m just really proud of the past six years and hopeful for the future.   FS: Yeah. Yeah, well I mean, this is a Bible podcast, so let’s dive into some Bible work today. We’re going to kind of take a break from the lectionary and instead each of us are going to share our favorite Bible passages. I’m going to try and think of one that is not Doubting Thomas, because I feel like I talk about that one all the time. So I’m going to pick a second favorite Bible passage.   But what about you, Brian? If you had to pick a favorite Bible passage, what is it and why?   B: I have so many. As you all might know and one that I’m going to talk about in depth is one that I’ve talked about before. I don’t know about on this podcast, but I made a video about it, so you all might have heard about it. But quickly first, one of my other favorites is from 1 Thessalonians 5:21.   “Test everything, hold fast to that which is good.”   As sort of what is resonating with me evolves over time, I like to really hold onto and remember this one. Because I remember being this queer closeted, high school teenager and trying to figure it out if it was okay to be queer, and where my place in the world and the church was, and somehow finding this Bible passage and being like, “Oh yeah, the questions are okay, the questions are good, the questions are biblical.” And whatever is good and right and true can stand up to that examination, and I don’t have to be afraid of that, and truth is on the other side. And so that has sort of guided me from coming out, to having sex, to being an activist, to doing this work. So that’s like one of my touchstones.   But the one that I want to share today is Matthew 7:15-20. And this is Jesus speaking, and I’m going to be reading from the Common English Bible.   “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you dressed like sheep, but inside they are vicious wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Do people get bunches of grapes from thorny weeds, or do they get figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and every rotten tree produces bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree can’t produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Therefore you will know them by their fruit.”   And I just love this passage because it cuts through so much of the bullshit that often surrounds discussions of queerness or sexuality, and Christianity and the Bible. And it’s like Jesus giving us this really clear rubric that is like: look at the results. What happens as the result? And I think that the results of non-affirming theology, their fruit is clear. It’s bad. It’s bad fruit pulled from thorny weeds, right? There’s like death, depression, suicidal ideation, attempted suicide, completed suicide, fracturing of families, loss of faith, just like really shitty stuff. And the fruits of affirming theology, I have said this before, testify to it’s like rightness, right? That flourishing comes, a return to wholeness comes, restoring of communities and families come, thriving of faith life.   And that also, it’s not just about is it okay to be LGBT? We can’t stop there. And I think that’s the work that we’re constantly trying to do is to keep the conversation moving, and that this rubric of looking at the fruits can also be applied to sort of any of the other theological work that we’re doing. So when we’re talking about transitioning, or trans bodies or the theology around that, or polyamory, when we say here’s where we find God, and we can see that goodness is there, then we can just know without having to, say, write a 25 page academic dissertation to prove why gay sex is good, or why polyamory is okay, or why transitioning is holy. Right? We can just look at our lives, and see, and know that God is there and that it’s holy. So I just love, love, love this passage.   What about you Shay?   FS: Yeah, I think a passage that I keep coming back to just over and over and over again is the story of Jacob wrestling with the angel in Genesis. And what I love so much about this passage is that it’s really grown with me throughout my own growing faith.   When I was in college and I was closeted and I was in a fundamentalist school and I was really starting to question my faith for the first time, this story of Jacob wrestling with the angel resonated with me, right? Because it was a sense of: it’s okay to question, it’s okay to wrestle. It’s okay to grapple.    B: Yeah, totally.   FS: And I think that I needed to hear that message at that time. And then as I’ve grown, I think what continues to resonate with me about that passage is still the wrestling and the grappling is still a thing. Right? I think we always continue to wrestle and grapple.   B: Oh, for sure.   FS: But also this sense of Jacob refusing to let go until the angel blesses him, I think it’s a really beautiful thing. And I think as someone who, like I mentioned before, can be a little stubborn.   B: Just a little bit.   FS: There’s a sense, though, of acknowledgement that sometimes we have to just hold on and demand the blessing. And I think as someone who has been in, is still in, a family who doesn’t accept me, has had to fight for a place in the church, has had to really fight for a place in theology in the Christian world, this sense of, no, this is my space too, and I’m going to hold on for the blessing, and I’m going to refuse to let go. I think that piece of that story continues to resonate.   And then obviously the fact that Jacob walks away with a new name resonates with me as a trans person, and as someone who has been deeply changed by my experience with God, and by my experience of this wrestling. And has also been wounded by it, right? That sense of Jacob walking away with a limp, that resonates. And to me, I think we’ve talked a lot on this podcast about what we love about doing it as being forced to re-encounter texts that we’ve heard all of our lives. And so what I love about this Jacob text is that it’s a text that continues to grow, and my understanding of it continues to change as I continue to grow and change.   And to me that’s so indicative of when you put in the work to really read scripture well, it grows and shifts and changes with you, and continues to hold meaning. That there isn’t just, this is what it means for all of time and for eternity. It’s like, this is what it means now, this is what it might mean in a couple of years. And I think that that’s beautiful and that’s heartening and it’s a good reminder to stay with the work and to continue to do it.   B: Yeah, for sure. I know sometimes folks write in and they’ll say, well, why didn’t you talk about this, or why didn’t you talk about that? And a certain type of Christianity says that there’s only one correct understanding or interpretation of any given passage, and once you’ve got it, you’ve got it, and that’s all you need. And what I love about this work and our understanding of faith, which I think is a historically very faithful way of approaching the text, is to say, no, we have to pick this apart and put it back together, and it’s going to say different things to different people in different times because our contexts are different, and that’s so beautiful.   And also, from the very beginning we’ve said there is so much more to Christianity and being an LGBTQ Christian than always defending ourselves against that which we are not. Like this passage in Genesis with Jacob is about trans people just as much as any other passage is about trans people. And it can also be about other types of people too. You can understand the text and in so, understand your community and the divine so much more fully when you bring your full queer or trans self to your faith. And I think that straight folks and cis folks have their lives and faith enriched by the presence and experience and wisdom of LGBTQ folks, right? Like queer theology isn’t only for queer people. It’s a blessing to the whole wide world.   So to our queer listeners out there: bring yourself.   FS: Yeah. I think as we’ve talked about what the past six years has meant, I think both you and I have this sense of we’re just getting started, right?   B: Yeah!   FS: There’s still so much work to be done. There’s still so much good news of queer theology to be spread to straight and cisgender folks, to churches all over the world. There’s still so much that resonates in these stories, and there’s still so much to unpack. And I love the fact that we get to continue to do this work, that because of our training and our experience, and frankly, the decades, even before the six years that we’ve been doing this work.   B: I feel so old, yeah.   FS: That we have a lot to bring to this, and that we continue to bring it. And I’m so excited about kind of building into the future. We have all of these amazing ideas to carry us forward, to change up the podcast, to continue to make this work more accessible to more people, and to continue to dive deeper. Right?   This has never been about getting people past the “it’s okay to be gay” hump and then leaving them there. It’s been about, all right, now that you know that it’s okay to be queer, or trans, or bi, ace, or whatever it is, how do your identities continue to inform? And not only inform, but deepen and enrich your faith, and make your relationship with God and your spiritual life even stronger and deeper and more profound? That’s the work that we want to continue doing with people.   B: Yeah, amen. “Is it okay?” Has always, in my mind, been the starting line of the conversation or the work and not the finish line.   So it’s been six years and we’ve been doing all this work. Why or in what ways is this work still needed in the world, and what does the future hold for you, do you think?   FS: Yeah. I mean, I think about that Walking Toward Resurrection ebook that I wrote about transness and the passion narrative, and how I wrote that thing 10 years ago, and now it’s still speaking to people and resonating today. And I think that there is even more work to be done, particularly around trans bodies and trans spirituality. I think that we have just scratched the surface on that, and I’m excited to dive into that work. And I think that the visibility that trans folks are receiving right now in some circles means that there’s a lot of work to be done, and especially a lot of work to be done with churches about how to make spaces not just affirming, but welcoming and inclusive and comfortable for trans and non-binary folks. And I think that we have a lot to add to that conversation, and there’s a lot of work and resources that churches need in order to do that work well.   B: Yeah. All of your work around trans spirituality, trans issues, trans theology, I just am so in awe of you. I remember before we started working together when I had just met you, you were more of an acquaintance, I was kind of a little bit of a fanboy over your trans theology. So it’s just been awesome. Now I get to work with you. It was a little intimidating at first. Because it’s just so brilliant, and I know that there’s so much more in you to share, and so I’m excited about that.   I am excited about, and I know this will probably not come as a surprise to anyone, but to continue diving into faithful sexuality and healthy relationships and exploring what that looks like for LGBTQ Christians and even straight cis Christians sort of in the modern millennia. We’ve been talking about Christianity and sex for literally years before it was cool, when it was even more dangerous. And I’ve got some more in me. I shared on Instagram a few days ago about I was back at my college for homecoming, and near the place that I had gay sex for the first time, and shared a little bit about that on our Instagram story. And then was remembering that I wrote a prayer for him and for that experience, a few years ago at this point, and so shared that as well. So it’s been cool to bring a faithful approach to sexuality, and I’m excited to do even more of that. I know I am constantly working up stuff in my head, in my journals, and I’m looking forward to sharing all of that with you all.   And also it’s the end of the year approaching, and it’s our 300th episode, and we’re at a little bit of a crossroads, and for the past six years have really just tried to make it work because we believe in this work so much. In the beginning, we were paying it for ourselves. We’ve got just the tiniest little bit of funding coming in that basically keeps the lights on and not much more than that. And so we need your help to keep this work going, and to keep the podcast up, and the articles on social media, and all of that. So we are relaunching or launching a campaign to raise some significant money on Patreon each month to keep this work going and to make it sustainable. And so Shay, can you share a little bit more about why we’re doing that and what all that is entailed?   FS: Yeah. Like you said, we’ve been doing this work for six years. Basically we figured out we were making like $2 an hour.   B: I think less than $2 an hour.   FS: Right. Less than $2 an hour just really cranking out new resources. And we want to be able to do more, but we also know that it’s important, both for our own mental health and sanity and lives, that this work be sustainable, but also in order to do all of the resources, the new stuff that we want to do, this work has to be sustainable. And so we have dreams about doing podcast mini series, about doing tons more interviews, about making the podcast longer, better quality, all of those things, about redesigning the website to make sure that all of the things that we’ve already created, you can actually find, and find when you need them. Because right now we understand that it’s a little bit wonky.   B: There’s just been so much and we keep adding to it.   FS: There’s been so much. We want to do live events, we want to meet you in person, we want to continue to create the resources that we know people are asking for. And so this ask for us, it’s a hard ask. I don’t think either of us like asking for money, or admitting that we need help. But the reality is that we do, that we can’t continue on like we have been for another six years, that we’re already feeling close to our limit and we want to be able to lean into this next six years filled with joy, and health, and from a really solid grounding. And so we’re launching a Patreon that will allow you all to step up and support this work, and we’ll create a base from which we can create new resources.   So you can check that out at patreon.com/queertheology. You can read more about why we’re doing this now, what we’re asking for, what our dreams are for the future. But we hope that you will join in with us to make sure that we can produce another 300 episodes of the podcast.   B: Yeah. I’m just really excited about this sort of moment in the evolution of Queer Theology and the LGBTQ Christian space. And you know, I think we both try and, I think, make this work look easy because we’re proud of it, and we’re excited to be a part of it, and we are happy to do it. It feels like a spiritual calling in alignment with our skills and our experience. And we don’t ever, I’m at least very self conscious about like I don’t want to ever complain or take things for granted, and also it takes an incredible amount of time and energy. I think we’re probably each working at least 20 hours, if not 40 hours a week, just on Queer Theology in addition to our other jobs to keep the lights on and pay the bills in our own lives.   And so we want to keep doing this work, and do it well, and do it more. And like you were saying, Shay, to include more of you all, to do interviews with you, to feature other voices, and these series to come in person to do stuff. And so I would be so thankful for your support in this.   If the podcast or the videos or the emails have have made an impact in your life, I would really just feel so good about that support. And if you can’t give, or in addition to giving, sharing our Patreon, sharing our work with your friends, maybe even asking the straight folks in your life to donate in your honor, or sharing it with your church.    Get creative.    Anything that you can do would really, really be helpful. We would love to go into the new year feeling we’ve got a strong base to do this work from. So again, that’s patreon.com/queertheology.   There’s a few levels of perks, but mostly we were trying to keep the focus on the work and on engaging with you. We would love to chat more with you, so connect with us on Patreon. And happy 300 episodes!   FS: Happy 300 episodes. And here’s to the next 300.   Thank you all for supporting us and for continuing to be our community. We just feel really lucky to get to do this work, and really honored for the trust that you’ve placed in us. And we want to be worthy of that trust and continue to create resources that help all of us live healthy and whole spiritual lives.   B: And we’ll talk to you next week.   [outro music plays]   B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.    FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram.   B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Every day we get messages from LGBTQ people and the parents and pastors of LGBTQ people. From listeners and readers in over 200 countries. Each one of these messages is a blessing and a responsibility. They are daily reminders of why we started this work: to connect our head and our heart, to spread the gospel message of justice and freedom, and to live into God’s abundant love for us. We love being on this journey with you. We believe that this work is a calling. But we also believe that in order to do it well and for the long haul we need your help. We’re at a critical moment in that journey, though, and we need your help. This work that has touched and transformed so many lives is not sustainable. We need your help. Learn more at patreon.com/queertheology The post #300: LGBTQ Christian Progress – Matthew 7, Genesis 32:22-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

In today’s world where the poor stay poor, the oppressed stay oppressed, and the unjust are enabled to continue wreaking havoc, it is refreshing to hear Luke 18:1-8 where it shows us that God is just. May this passage inspire you to continue fighting the fight and always do what is good and just. Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast. It is Sunday, October 20th. We are gonna take a look at Luke 18:1-8 this is episode 299, we are so close in our countdown to episode 300. We’ve got some really special announcements and stuff planned for next week. So make sure that you stay tuned for that until then, we are super stoked to be at episode 299. I can not believe how long we’ve been recording this podcast.  B: What a journey! FS: We were looking at the text for today, and I was like, “I am pretty sure we have done all of these at least three times”. And it was close to that! But today we are actually gonna do one that we haven’t done before, Luke 18:1-8, I’m gonna go ahead and read it for us now. This is from the Common English Bible. Jesus was telling them a parable about their need to pray continuously and not to be discouraged. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected people. In that city there was a widow who kept coming to him, asking, ‘Give me justice in this case against my adversary.’ For a while he refused but finally said to himself, I don’t fear God or respect people, but I will give this widow justice because she keeps bothering me. Otherwise, there will be no end to her coming here and embarrassing me.” The Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. Won’t God provide justice to his chosen people who cry out to him day and night? Will he be slow to help them? I tell you, he will give them justice quickly. But when the Human One comes, will he find faithfulness on earth?” So what do we do with this? B: Yeah! Well before we even jump into what this passage means, or might mean. I think it’s important to preface all of that with, this is a parable, right? So by design, it is not straightforward. Some types of Christians will say, “The Bible is extremely clear. It says this or it says that.” And even when approaching parables, some folks have this expectation that there’s this one secret, hidden meaning that you have to get at and figure out what the one true correct meaning of this passage is. I even heard folks say like, “Well Jesus sometimes couldn’t come out and say exactly what he meant because He will get in trouble for it.” So yeah, he had to speak in these parables to sort of hide His message, but well if we can figure it out, so could the people who’d be getting Him in trouble. So Jesus could’ve given us a rule book of: do this, don’t do that, do this, don’t do that, but instead oftentimes Jesus tells stories. And I think stories are a really important part of what it means to be human, how we make meaning, form community, get inspired, get excited, get sad. Stories are really powerful. Obviously, you know that Shay, you have a whole theatre company dedicated to stories for social change. Just to start with that, this is a parable that by design, is not always clear. And it gets really cool because in a lot of scripture, you can come at it from different ways, and it’s especially true for parables. There’s lots of different things that you can tug at, and tease at, and pull apart. Whatever we talk about today, is just one of many interpretations. You might have a different perspective, and so if you do, we would love to hear what you think on Twitter, or Facebook, or even leave us a review on iTunes and let us know your thoughts on this passage.  But for me, one of the things that comes up is that just this constant reminder that God is a God of justice. I think justice has been perverted sometimes to people to say justice, and they mean it in a wrathful way. That like God is just, and so God will punish you. But here we see that God’s justice to help this widow, and we don’t know exactly what her concern is, it probably doesn’t matter because it’s a parable right? She wasn’t real. But God is not just in the business of justice for the sake of punishing you and threatening you with hell, but that God is a God of justice who will help you resolve the things that are bothering you and is on your side. And this is another example of over, and over, and over again we see this idea of God and justice and God being-on-our-side mattering—it’s not secondary to the gospel, it’s at the very heart of it. I’ve got some other thoughts, but Shay what about you? FS: I love this passage because I think it gives us some really, both a lot of information about God and how Jesus understood God, but also a lot of information about how to deal with unjust judges. Which I think is super helpful, right? This passage on one hand is about being faithful, continuing to pray, and that’s something that I don’t know, feels kind of church-y, and that’s fine. But also it says that “keep praying and God will listen” and that’s cute and nice. But what I love about this passage is Jesus’ commentary on this judge. This judge who doesn’t respect God or people, but he decides to give this woman what she wants, not just because she keeps bothering him but also because she’s an embarrassment to him. I think of all of the different social movements that we’ve seen were like public embarrassment and in some ways, public shame have made a huge difference. Something about being so public and bringing embarrassment on people who, for instance, are not funding FDA research on AIDS. Or who aren’t willing to bake a cake for a gay couple. Somehow that embarrassment forces them to then become just. Not because they’re good people, we are not appealing to their morality because they have none. We’re not appealing to their good hearts and if we could just be nice enough we’ll win them over. It’s like, No, we’re gonna shame them and embarrass them so badly that the only choice that they have is to do the right thing.  I think that sometimes in the niceness of politics, especially of the LGBTQ Christians, there’s this sense of “No, we just have to love people into the kingdom.” And it’s like, no sometimes we have to embarrass them into the kingdom. That’s the work. The work is to be so loud and obnoxious that they can’t ignore us. Also, embarrass them and I think that’s one of the things that Church Clarity is doing so well, right? People are embarrassed because they know that their homophobia is not cool anymore, and yet, they don’t want to change it. And so Church Clarity does this thing of being like, “No. We’re just gonna shine a big ‘ole light on to your homophobia and make you deal with it.” I think that’s a really powerful tool in our activism arsenal that I think these days doesn’t get enough traction.  B: Amen. Also, for LGBTQ people who have so often been on the receiving end of shame and embarrassment, and shame-based coercion to do things. It’s understandable that we’re like, shame is always a bad thing and no one should ever be embarrassed into doing something. I know how painful that is and I don’t want to force that upon anyone else. Going back to what we were talking about last week, and what we’re talking about constantly here that in both the time of the Hebrew Bible, and Jesus, and today, power and positionality is a thing. So the dominant culture using shame to oppressed, and control, and manipulate you for devious and exploitative ends is different than oppressed minorities using whatever tools they have available to them to take a stand for their humanity. You being shamed and embarrassed for doing something that is wrong and hurtful is a different experience than being shamed or embarrassed for this part of who you are, how you love, and how you relate to your body. In English, it’s the same words but I think even emotionally queer people being shamed for existing experience that shame in a different way than, like you were saying, the FDA who is refusing to research AIDS, or folks who won’t bake cakes for gay couples, or the CDC who is not allowed to research gun deaths, whatever that is. So that’s an important thing to note. I think also, there’s so much I would like to talk about so I don’t want to go on and on, I know folks like short podcasts, but this is not just any character in this passage, right? It’s not like Donald Trump pulling a fast one and dicking over independent contractors by not paying them. The person who’s getting their way in this passage is a widow, a widow being someone who is very vulnerable and losing a spouse now is hard enough. In this context, it would be very, very devastating. God is on the side of not just everyone, but on the side of particular people, sort of a preferential sheet, preference for the poor and that jumped out at me. FS: Yeah, I love that, right? The shame is very specific, right? It’s towards the judge with power who’s not doing the right thing; who’s abusing his power. It’s not towards the widow who is caught in this unjust “justice system”. I mean that resonates today, a lot.  B: Amen! So as we approach episode 300, if this podcast has meant anything to you, if you could do us a favor by sharing it on social media or even more better would be to go and leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcast for this: iTunes, Google podcast, Apple podcast, Stitcher. When you leave a review, a rating, and you can write a little review it helps the algorithm see the algorithm in it. It also helps folks that are considering listening to this podcast, lets them know what this is about. We get reviews from haters who leave us a one star review saying that we are sinful, and don’t know the Bible. So if this podcast has been meaningful to you, you could help us out by doing that. We would love to hear your thoughts on this and other episodes on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr, all of the places, and we will talk to you next week for episode 300! Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: A reminder on how parables should be taken The importance and power of stories That God is the God of justice How embarrassing the oppressors is a powerful arsenal in fighting for our rights Luke 18:1-8 Jesus was telling them a parable about their need to pray continuously and not to be discouraged. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected people. In that city there was a widow who kept coming to him, asking, ‘Give me justice in this case against my adversary.’ For a while he refused but finally said to himself, I don’t fear God or respect people, but I will give this widow justice because she keeps bothering me. Otherwise, there will be no end to her coming here and embarrassing me.” The Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. Won’t God provide justice to his chosen people who cry out to him day and night? Will he be slow to help them? I tell you, he will give them justice quickly. But when the Human One comes, will he find faithfulness on earth?” Photo by Aaron Burden The post Embarrass Them Into the Kingdom – Luke 18:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

In such a short yet beautiful scripture, we are reminded that life is full of uncertainty. That there will be obstacles and sacrifices along the way before we receive what was promised to us. All of these are very relatable points for us queer folks. On that same note, we keep the faith despite being exiled because we know that we will see the promised land — someday. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B: Good morning! Today is Sunday, October 13th, 2019. This is episode 298 of the Queer Theology podcast. I can hardly believe how long we’ve been doing this. We’ve got some exciting announcements coming up around our episode 300, so stay tuned for that. Today we are going to be looking at Jeremiah 29:1, 4-7 I will read it to you now. The prophet Jeremiah sent a letter from Jerusalem to the few surviving elders among the exiles, to the priests and the prophets, and to all the people Nebuchadnezzar had taken to Babylon from Jerusalem. The Lord of heavenly forces, the God of Israel, proclaims to all the exiles I have carried off from Jerusalem to Babylon: Build houses and settle down; cultivate gardens and eat what they produce. Get married and have children; then help your sons find wives and your daughters find husbands in order that they too may have children. Increase in number there so that you don’t dwindle away. Promote the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because your future depends on its welfare. I’m really excited to dive into this passage because there’s a few things that I think are gonna be juicy for our listeners. So Shay, what comes up for you? FS: Yeah, I love this. You know, we’ve been talking a lot in the Bible course that we just finished. We talked a lot about understanding the historical context of scripture and how that, unless you understand the historical context, you miss a lot. And we talked about how the Hebrew scriptures, in particular, were written in exile. Right? So much of the Hebrew scriptures is about the people of Israel being taken away from their homeland and away from the land that they had been promised. Living in exile, far away from home and with people in charge of them.  So I love that we have this little tidbit of a passage, right? It’s really short, but there’s so much stuff in it and the instructions that they are being given from God, the God who has promised them that they would have their own land — a land of their own where they can worship freely, is now to settle down in this city where they are in exile. And I can just imagine how traumatic that would have been for the people to hear. And not only that but they’re being told to get married and have kids, and then help their kids get married and have kids. So we’re talking like they’re gonna be in exile for a really long time, and that’s gotta be devastating to hear that this promise that they have been waiting for is not coming anytime soon. And that even when it does come, that they probably won’t see it. But what I love is the kind of insidiousness of the end of this passage or this bit that we get, “Promote the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile… because your future depends on its welfare.” I think that this is fascinating, right? Because they’re being told, basically to help the people who took them into exile. And I think that in the conservative Christian whatever, that I would’ve grown up hearing this it would’ve been, you know, because God has your back in the end, so it’s a way to convert them, it’s a way to be — whatever. I think that really, it’s this sense of like, no this is a survival tactic when you are outnumbered, you need to have some allies, and some protection in place. I think that this is a prophet telling the people, we’re gonna be here for a while, so figure out how to survive. And again this isn’t a sense of “get comfy here” and “just disappear into the woodwork”. This is a survival tactic, it’s a survival mechanism. I think that as people who care about justice for all and who don’t want to disappear into empire, the empire the United States, or the empire of imperialism. It’s important that we tease out the tension of these passages. It’s important to survive. Also, don’t get too comfortable. There’s all sorts of tensions here that I find really interesting. B: Yeah, it reminds me a little bit about coming out, actually, or before you come out. I think that the goal for queer folks is to be able to live fully into your truth whether that means coming out publicly, whether that means if you’re trans – transitioning stealthfully and living into your gender. Whatever living into your queer truth looks like, I think the goal is that we would leave exile, that we would leave the closet, that we would leave being hemmed in, to live into that. And also, sometimes, it’s not safe yet. That you’re financially dependent upon parents or family members, that you’re a minor living at home, that you’re at a school on a scholarship, and that’s the only way that you can afford school, and you can’t violate their codes. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to survive. I think that that tension that you were talking about is true for queer people. Sometimes you have to do what it takes to survive and that means not coming out or being selective in who you come out to or how you come out to. But also, not being so invested in straight supremacy that you end up reinforcing the closet that you find yourself in. That there’s this tension between, I got to do what it takes right now, but the end goal down the line is to be free from this exile. So I know that whenever we’re talking about queer folks and Christianity, or queer folks and religion. Anytime in the Bible where there’s anything about people getting married, and it’s like men marrying women I hear anti-LGBTQ people be like, “See! Look at all these examples of straight people!” and “Where are the gay people in the Bible?” That message becomes so insidious that queer folks sometimes can see that also. And this beautiful text about exile and liberation, if you run it through the wrong lens can somehow be like, “Well, what does it say about gay people?” So Shay, what would you say to people who are reading this and seeing all this talk about husbands getting married to wives, and sons finding their wives, and daughters finding husbands. What place does that have here? FS: I mean again, we have to focus on historical context, right? I’m sure that gay and queer people existed in Bible times. We know that right? B: Yup! FS: We also know that we didn’t have words or language around that. They’re not gonna talk about that probably. Also, this passage is really specific of like, we need you to procreate so that there’s more of you. B: Exactly. Yup! FS: Right? And so, we can talk about how gay people can also procreate, and that there are lots of different ways to form families. But this was a very specific line about, I need you to have a lot of babies so that the line continues. And we know, right? That even queer folks have parented children have had children. There are lots of different ways for that to happen. So these passages don’t necessarily exclude queer people even though it’s obviously very specifically about a certain type of procreation. B: Yeah. So a few weeks ago, I was on this podcast called Drunk Bible Study and they’re reading through Deuteronomy. That’s where they are in the podcast right now, and sort of reacting to it, and sort of feeling like there’s this sense of imperialism, and let go, and take and settle land that’s not yours. And one of the things that I shared with them is what we’ve been talking about in this course and throughout Queer Theology. The Hebrew Bible was written in the context of exile, and so you have to remember that these are an oppressed minority, community. Trying to struggle to survive. When you understand that, it changes the perspective like right now, in the whole world — American Christians are this political powerful force. So it looks a lot different to say to a politically powerful religious group to let go, and live there, and settle, and reproduce, and spread, and take over. We’re this really small, fragile community, struggling to survive. What does it mean to define our ethnic identity and want to reproduce so that we don’t literally die of? Remembering the historical context is so, so important. I think, for me, enriches scripture, it doesn’t diminish it. That bringing this whole history to it is a sacred thing to do. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we talk about: How even people in the past had to make sacrifices in a situation they weren’t ready for The importance of knowing and understanding the historical context of a scripture; Hebrew was written in the context of exile How this scripture is very related to coming out as queer That the queer folks existed during the Bible days Procreation extends beyond the union of a man and a woman Jeremiah 29:1, 4-7 The prophet Jeremiah sent a letter from Jerusalem to the few surviving elders among the exiles, to the priests and the prophets, and to all the people Nebuchadnezzar had taken to Babylon from Jerusalem. The Lord of heavenly forces, the God of Israel, proclaims to all the exiles I have carried off from Jerusalem to Babylon: Build houses and settle down; cultivate gardens and eat what they produce. Get married and have children; then help your sons find wives and your daughters find husbands in order that they too may have children. Increase in number there so that you don’t dwindle away. Promote the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because your future depends on its welfare. Photo by Toa Heftiba The post Settling Down & Surviving – Jeremiah 29:1, 4-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Oftentimes the LGBTQ community gets called out and shamed for our sexuality and the choices we make around it — enter, the clobber passages. Because of this, it’s very important that we know how to read the Bible and understand its context to protect ourselves and strengthen our faith. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B: Hey, there! Today is Sunday, October 6, 2019. Today we are going to be looking at 2 Timothy 1:1-14. I will read it to you now from the Common English Bible. From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by God’s will, to promote the promise of life that is in Christ Jesus. To Timothy, my dear child. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. I’m grateful to God, whom I serve with a good conscience as my ancestors did. I constantly remember you in my prayers day and night. When I remember your tears, I long to see you so that I can be filled with happiness. I’m reminded of your authentic faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice. I’m sure that this faith is also inside you. Because of this, I’m reminding you to revive God’s gift that is in you through the laying on of my hands. God didn’t give us a spirit that is timid but one that is powerful, loving, and self-controlled. So don’t be ashamed of the testimony about the Lord or of me, his prisoner. Instead, share the suffering for the good news, depending on God’s power. God is the one who saved and called us with a holy calling. This wasn’t based on what we have done, but it was based on his own purpose and grace that he gave us in Christ Jesus before time began. Now his grace is revealed through the appearance of our savior, Christ Jesus. He destroyed death and brought life and immortality into clear focus through the good news. I was appointed a messenger, apostle, and teacher of this good news. This is also why I’m suffering the way I do, but I’m not ashamed. I know the one in whom I’ve placed my trust. I’m convinced that God is powerful enough to protect what he has placed in my trust until that day. Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching that you heard from me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Protect this good thing that has been placed in your trust through the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Oh my gosh, Shay. I can not, can not wait to dive into this. There’s so much in this passage. I knew kind of a little bit about what I wanted to talk about beforehand, and reading it, there was like “more, more, more”. So I can’t wait! What’s your LGBTQ Christian take on 2 Timothy? FS: I mean, first of all, I love this lineage of ancestors in this very first part. That’s the thing that always jumps out at me first when I read this passage both Paul saying, “I’m grateful to God, whom I serve with a good conscience as my ancestors did.”, but also this calling out of where Timothy’s faith comes from, right? His grandmother, his mother. Often 2 Timothy is attributed to Paul, and Paul the kind of anti-woman person that he is often made out to be in this passage is calling on the very genuine, and rich, and authentic faith of two powerful women. That’s where Timothy’s, not only where his faith comes from, but also this gift that is in him to do this work. I think that that’s really beautiful and it makes me think of both the ancestors in my life of faith, and also the ancestors in my life of queer and transness. Specifically, the women that I’ve learned from. I think that’s a really powerful reminder, it’s a moment to reflect on, and give thanks for those people that have influenced my faith, and that have helped me stay in it in the midst of suffering, and in the midst of kind of rethinking and reframing my faith that I had to do from childhood, and teen years, to today. In order to have a faith that is actually good news and life-giving. You know, that’s really hard work and I’ve had a lot of mentors along the way who have helped me at pivotal points both mentors in person, but also mentors from books that I’ve read, and from preachers that I’ve heard. I think it’s important to reflect on that every once in a while to give thanks, to remember on whose shoulders I stand, and in whose lineage I am. And that’s really powerful. So that’s the first thing that comes up for me. What about for you, I know that you got multiple things? B: Haha yeah! So one of the first things that jumped out at me is reading the Bible literally versus metaphorically, and a certain type of Christian often says that they read the Bible literally and then turn around and read it very metaphorically in all of the places that are very clearly literal. So what they actually mean by literal is “I’m gonna pick and choose what I want to emphasize, but I’m gonna call that literal because it sounds better.” Paul is a literal prisoner, he’s not a prisoner in his sin, or shame, or whatever. He is literally been a prisoner, and that’s so important to remember to think about the way in which everyone in America for the most part, looks at prisoners, or “criminals”, or breaking the law. We hear, see protest happening especially if it’s queer folks, people of color, poor people, immigrants, it’s like “Oh, why can’t they just do it in a way that doesn’t break the law.” Right? People really have this, my propensity towards “law and order”, and we look down on prisoners. The whole Bible, we talked about this last week, is full of love and liberation for prisoners. This idea of then Paul later is talking about, “Don’t be ashamed of the gospel. Please don’t be ashamed of me.” Paul had a reason why people might be ashamed. People are looking down upon him, he’s been in prison, he’s a persecuted religious and political minority. So this isn’t Christians who have lots of political power in the US. Thinking like, “Oh, my co-workers don’t get it that I like don’t drink a lot.” You know? They think it’s kinda weird that I go to Bible saying, that’s not the shame we’re talking about here. The shame of growing up queer or trans in a world that completely marginalizes, erases, mocks us. The shame of having HIV, of living with HIV. The shame of who you are and how you exist in the world being this thing that is scorned. We queer people know shame.  A little while ago we did an issue of our digital magazine Spit & Spirit, all about pride and shame, which you can get at queertheology.com/pride. Looking at like, God is powerful, and God can protect us, and this like who we are that might be a source of shame for us, is actually a source of pride, and power, and goodness. So I think that’s the message for queer folks [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we talk about: Find “your people.” Find people who will inspire you and help you strengthen your faith especially when it’s being shamed and challenged Acknowledge the people who have helped you How queer folks reflect on shame Check queertheology.com/pride for a little inspiration about pride and shame 2 Timothy 1:1-14 From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by God’s will, to promote the promise of life that is in Christ Jesus. To Timothy, my dear child. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. I’m grateful to God, whom I serve with a good conscience as my ancestors did. I constantly remember you in my prayers day and night. When I remember your tears, I long to see you so that I can be filled with happiness. I’m reminded of your authentic faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice. I’m sure that this faith is also inside you. Because of this, I’m reminding you to revive God’s gift that is in you through the laying on of my hands. God didn’t give us a spirit that is timid but one that is powerful, loving, and self-controlled. So don’t be ashamed of the testimony about the Lord or of me, his prisoner. Instead, share the suffering for the good news, depending on God’s power. God is the one who saved and called us with a holy calling. This wasn’t based on what we have done, but it was based on his own purpose and grace that he gave us in Christ Jesus before time began. Now his grace is revealed through the appearance of our savior, Christ Jesus. He destroyed death and brought life and immortality into clear focus through the good news. I was appointed a messenger, apostle, and teacher of this good news. This is also why I’m suffering the way I do, but I’m not ashamed. I know the one in whom I’ve placed my trust. I’m convinced that God is powerful enough to protect what he has placed in my trust until that day. Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching that you heard from me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Protect this good thing that has been placed in your trust through the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Photo by Jacqueline Day The post Gender, Shame, and Faith – 2 Timothy 1:1-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

This is another special episode as we are going to read three different passages. Different, and yet they fit nicely together. Somehow these passages form a beautiful reminder that God is in our midst and is for us: the oppressed, the minority, and the marginalized. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns . B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B: Hello, hello,  hello! Today is Sunday, September 29, 2019. We are going to be doing something a little bit different this week. We’re gonna be actually reading three different passages: 2 from Psalms and 1 from Amos. As we were looking over the text over this week, we found that they just went really nicely together. Sort of came at same idea from a few different angles. We wanted to talk about them all. So we are going to do a little popcorn back and forth. I will read to you right now, Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16. Living in the Most High’s shelter, camping in the Almighty’s shade, I say to the Lord, “You are my refuge, my stronghold! You are my God—the one I trust!” God will save you from the hunter’s trap and from deadly sickness. God will protect you with his pinions; you’ll find refuge under his wings. His faithfulness is a protective shield. Don’t be afraid of terrors at night, arrows that fly in daylight, or sickness that prowls in the dark, destruction that ravages at noontime. God says, “Because you are devoted to me, I’ll rescue you. I’ll protect you because you know my name. Whenever you cry out to me, I’ll answer. I’ll be with you in troubling times. I’ll save you and glorify you. I’ll fill you full with old age. I’ll show you my salvation.” FS: And I’m going to read for us Amos 6:1a, 4-7 Doom to those resting comfortably in Zion and those trusting in Mount Samaria, the chiefs of the nations, to whom the house of Israel comes! who lie on beds of ivory, stretch out on their couches, eat lambs from the flock, and bull calves from the stall; who sing idle songs to the sound of the harp, and, like David, compose tunes on musical instruments; who drink bowls of wine, put the best of oils on themselves, but who aren’t grieved over the ruin of Joseph! Therefore, they will now be the first to be taken away, and the feast of those who lounged at the table will pass away. B: And this is Psalm 146 Praise the Lord! Let my whole being praise the Lord! I will praise the Lord with all my life; I will sing praises to my God as long as I live. Don’t trust leaders; don’t trust any human beings— there’s no saving help with them! Their breath leaves them, then they go back to the ground. On that very same day, their plans die too. The person whose help is the God of Jacob— the person whose hope rests on the Lord their God— is truly happy! God: the maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, God: who is faithful forever, who gives justice to people who are oppressed, who gives bread to people who are starving! The Lord: who frees prisoners. The Lord: who makes the blind see. The Lord: who straightens up those who are bent low. The Lord: who loves the righteous. The Lord: who protects immigrants, who helps orphans and widows, but who makes the way of the wicked twist and turn! The Lord will rule forever! Zion, your God will rule from one generation to the next! Praise the Lord! This is the word of the Lord! Amen! FS: Yeah! I’m so struck by, I mean, you have this passage, freeing prisoners, protecting immigrants, helping orphans and widows, and this idea that Bible isn’t political. It’s just blown out of the water, right? We see this over and over again. That you can’t say that the Bible doesn’t talk about politics. All three of these passages are about kings, and people with political power, and people with a lot of money, and who God is on the side of, and God is clearly on the side of the people who are most oppressed and marginalized. And so, we have this beautiful reminder of that in all three of these passages. B: Yeah, so a few weeks ago, we posted a graphic on Instagram that said: “The gospel is good news.” The caption talked about how the Bible has often been used against us, but that we see in it, from Genesis to Revelation, a good news. That God is with us and for us. And someone commented, and this isn’t the first time we’ve gotten a comment like this, that there’s just so much bad stuff in the Bible and it’s been used against us so much. How can you say that it’s good news? It’s passages like these right? It’s important to remember that these are three passages, we haven’t even looked at Luke 4 or Isaiah. There’s other parts of Amos and all of Exodus, right? The entirety of the gospels that, you know, it’s not these isolated, there’s not like one verse, right? I think there are six verses that people point to and say that homosexuality is a sin and there’s one or two about trans folks that people sometimes try and twist and point to. I think that those are really stretches, we don’t spend a lot of time talking about the clobber passages because, a) it’s been written about ad infinitum for decades, and that we get stuck in those cycles of missing what the Bible has to say about us. If you want to take a look about those clobber passages in particular, we have some resources at queertheology.com/apologetics. But I think it can be tempting to say that these political passages are the exemptions. No! The political passages are sort of the heart of the Bible. What I love about this is that God is our shade, our refuge, our stronghold. God is our shield, God will protect us from terror at night. It’s not queer people who should be scared about God. God is on our side and it’s not just everyday folks that are like, maybe I didn’t say the prayer the right way and God hates me, and then I’ll go to hell. No! God is on our side. It’s people that are sort of, puffing themselves up, profiting off of the masses while the rest of us are suffering. It’s people who are, you know, camps at the border, it’s people who are supporting ex-gay ministries, I’m looking at you Bethel. So, God is very clearly on our side both on a personal level and on a political level. FS: And this is another of those times where I think it’s really important to understand that pretty much the entire context of the Bible is, it was written by people who are in oppressed communities. It was written by them for their communities. Trying to make sense of the bad things that were happening. Trying to encourage and lift up those communities. I think it’s really dangerous when the Bible becomes a tool for those empowered to further oppressed people because that was never who it was written for, that was never how it was intended to be used. It’s really important that those of us from the marginalized and oppressed communities, remember that we are the intended audience for these passages of hope and comfort. That they were written to people like us in another time. Obviously, also then be willing to confront the places in our own lives where we are people in power who are oppressing others, right? That’s a both/and. But you know, like you said, it’s not queer and trans folks that should be afraid of the judgement of God. It’s the people that are oppresing queer and trans folks and making laws to take our rights away and to make us unsafe. The people that are hateful towards us all the time.  B: Yeah, so we are exactly halfway through this journey into the Bible course on How to Read the Bible that you are leading. It’s been really exciting to dive into the Bible with these group of students. We’re looking at stuff just like this. In this course, we talk a lot on this podcast about the political context and looking at it in its time and we get these sort of glimpses of it… We’re doing a different verse every week and our episodes are relatively short. It’s been exciting to dive deeper into what is that context specifically, and who specifically was it for, and what was happening, and what else is going on there. I have done a lot of studying, I study religion in college, and have been doing faith-based activism for the past 10 years, and studying under pastors and theologians, and even I am learning new stuff in this course. That’s been really exciting. Obviously, it’s in session but it will be coming back probably next year. We’re also going to be doing one that looks specifically at queering the Bible. So if you’re interested in learning more about that, getting on the waitlist, finding out when it comes back. You can go to queertheology.com/biblecourse. We will keep you posted on when we’re doing this bad boy again, it’s been so much fun and such a blessing to go through this with you Shay, leading it and with all the folks inside the Sanctuary Collective. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) This episode highlights: Who God is in on the side of How the clobber passages are always twisted and used against queer folks. If you want to read about it, you can check it at queertheology.com/apologetics The importance of knowing the context of the passage, who it was written for, in what circumstance it was written Bible and politics We are already halfway through the Bible course on How to Read the Bible, and we will be doing this again (as it had been so much fun and eye-opening) sometime next year. To keep posted, join the waitlist at queertheology.com/biblecourse. Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16 Living in the Most High’s shelter, camping in the Almighty’s shade, I say to the Lord, “You are my refuge, my stronghold! You are my God—the one I trust!” God will save you from the hunter’s trap and from deadly sickness. God will protect you with his pinions; you’ll find refuge under his wings. His faithfulness is a protective shield. Don’t be afraid of terrors at night, arrows that fly in daylight, or sickness that prowls in the dark, destruction that ravages at noontime. God says, “Because you are devoted to me, I’ll rescue you. I’ll protect you because you know my name. Whenever you cry out to me, I’ll answer. I’ll be with you in troubling times. I’ll save you and glorify you. I’ll fill you full with old age. I’ll show you my salvation.” Amos 6:1a, 4-7 Doom to those resting comfortably in Zion and those trusting in Mount Samaria, the chiefs of the nations, to whom the house of Israel comes! who lie on beds of ivory, stretch out on their couches, eat lambs from the flock, and bull calves from the stall; who sing idle songs to the sound of the harp, and, like David, compose tunes on musical instruments; who drink bowls of wine, put the best of oils on themselves, but who aren’t grieved over the ruin of Joseph! Therefore, they will now be the first to be taken away, and the feast of those who lounged at the table will pass away. Psalm 146 Praise the Lord! Let my whole being praise the Lord! I will praise the Lord with all my life; I will sing praises to my God as long as I live. Don’t trust leaders; don’t trust any human beings— there’s no saving help with them! Their breath leaves them, then they go back to the ground. On that very same day, their plans die too. The person whose help is the God of Jacob— the person whose hope rests on the Lord their God— is truly happy! God: the maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, God: who is faithful forever, who gives justice to people who are oppressed, who gives bread to people who are starving! The Lord: who frees prisoners. The Lord: who makes the blind see. The Lord: who straightens up those who are bent low. The Lord: who loves the righteous. The Lord: who protects immigrants, who helps orphans and widows, but who makes the way of the wicked twist and turn! The Lord will rule forever! Zion, your God will rule from one generation to the next! Praise the Lord! Photo by Artem Sapegin The post Beautiful Reminder – Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16; Amos 6:1a, 4-7; Psalm 146 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Today’s episode is a special one as we get a break from the usual Sunday lectionary readings. Fr. Shay and Brian answer some deep and riveting, queer-related questions. AND we are excited to announce that this episode holds a HUGE giveaway. Stay tuned to learn more! Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. Good morning! Today is Sunday, September 22nd and I’m so glad to have you all hear for another episode of the Queer Theology podcast. We’re going to break from the lectionary today to do another Q&A episode and we’ve got an exciting announcement. In this episode, we’re gonna touch upon some of the Christian books that were influential to us. You know, when Shay and I first were growing up and coming up, there just weren’t many, if any, books that were written by and for LGBT Christians. Thankfully, that is changing and so we reached out to a bunch of our friends who have written some books that we think are stellar. We are putting together a mega giveaway! So you can see everything that’s included, and enter at queertheology.com/giveaway. The grand prize is a powerpack of seven books, most of them we got signed by the authors for you, and they are:   1. Radical Love by Patrick Cheng 2. Queer Virtue by Liz Edman 3. Transforming by Austen Hartke 4. One Coin Found by Emmy Kegler 5. Outside the Lines by Mihee Kim-Kort 6. Our Lives Matter by Pamela R. Lightsey 7. Transgender Theology Ministry and Communities of Faith by Justin Tanis It’s a really awesome collection of books, I think. The grand prize also includes a “God is Love” shirt, some LGBTQ Christian theme stickers, and a year of subscription to Sanctuary Collective. Which if you don’t already know, in addition to being a supported international online community, also comes with resources like: Resurrecting Faith, An LGBTQ Christian Guide to Self Care, all 12 issues of our digital magazine Spit & Spirit which covers everything, from Sin & Grace, to Pride & Shame, to Sex & Bodies, to Crucifixion & Resurrection, and more. We are constantly adding to Sanctuary Collective, we got a really cool lineup of stuff coming out next year, so the prize pack is gonna be pretty awesome. So the giveaway is totally free to enter. All you have to do is go to queertheology.com/giveaway. So pause the podcast right now and go do that! Tell you friends. There will be a few runner up prices, so make sure that you head over to queertheology.com/giveaway and enter now. Now that that’s out of the way, let’s jump into the questions. I am excited to be doing another Q&A episode today we’ve got a few good questions to dive into. This is something we’re gonna be doing from time to time in the podcast. So if you have a question that you would like featured, just shoot us an email at connect@queertheology.com. Let us know if it’s a question for the podcast and we will include it here. So this first question is from Sarah whose a member of Sanctuary Collective, which you can learn more about at queertheology.com/community, and she asks: “Do you have any attachments to specific saints or theologians, who are they and why?” Shay, I know you’ve got a bug I think, but what’s your response to this? FS: I do! You know, growing up I was in a tradition that did not do saints, right? So it’s been fun over the last couple of years to discover the meaning of saints and figuring out how to connect to that. I think that my saints are, some of them are actual canonized by the Roman Catholic church saints and some of them are just people that I consider meaningful and have had an impact on my life. So I think of folks like Dorothy Day, Daniel and Philip Berrigan, all Roman Catholics who did a ton of work around justice issues, and caring for the poor. Those folks are super important to my life and have impacted my journey. So those are probably some of my favorite, more modern saints. I’m a big fan of Doubting Thomas, and his story, and I’ve written a lot about Thomas and Jesus’ scars in the midst of that. So yeah, those are the saints that come first to mind. Do you have any particular saints, Brian? B: Before I get into that though, you wrote a little bit about doubting Thomas in your book, Walking Towards Resurrection. Where can folks get that? FS: That’s on our website, we have a bunch of different options there. We did an ebook version, I read an audiobook version you can do a bundle that will get you all of that, and that’s at queertheology.com/resurrection. Folks have seemed to really resonate with it and found it meaningful, both trans and non trans folks. So yeah, if you wanna pick that up. B: Yeah! I remember the first time I heard you talk about Doubting Thomas and also this passage from Ezekiel, I was like, “Holy shit! Shay is not just regurgitating stuff other people have said before he is creating new theology right here in front of me.” It was amazing and I love it! I highly recommend that. I would also second Dorothy Day, I think for me some theologians that have been super influential in me, Dr. James Cone for sure, one of the founders of liberation theology, definitely Black Liberation theology here in America and abroad. Like, hugely transformative in a way that I understand the gospel, and reminds me of that scene in the scriptures were like, the scales fall off of Paul’s eyes. And I was like, oh yeah! I can see this all in a new way now. What was so clearly there all along and I somehow missed before. I think that our work at Queer Theology is definitely, forever indebted to the work of Cone and other Liberation Theologians. More recently in my journey, Patrick Cheng and Marcella Althaus-Reid, to queer theologians, Patrick’s big book is Radical Love and Maricela’s book is The queer God which is super, super dense. I’m like, a lot to get through, but really expanding the way that I think about God, and sex, and relationships, and how that all puts together in the ways in which things already queer. Christianity has always been queer, so those have been huge for me I think. FS: Yeah, I am really indebted to, and frankly these books are a little bit dated, but Robert Goss’ Jesus Acted Up and the Queer Christ, were really transformative for me. Especially in shifting out of this sense of apologetics and the clober passages, to a more expansive understanding of what theology could be and what queer theology could be. So his books are, like I said, some of the language is a little bit dated specially around gender identity, but a really great first intro into queer theology. Also, Justin Tanis’ book on Transgender in the Church is still the best book that I’ve read around trans 101 theology and also about how to make your church more inclusive for trans folks. That book was just republished, so it’s available again which means we’re so excited to have it. So I highly recommend that one too. Those books were really transformative for me, and then I think, even deeper than that I’m really enjoying the Rob Bell’s newest book on the Bible, that’s been super helpful. And I think a lot of the folks that came out of the radical left in the 60’s and 70’s, their theology still speaks and screams today at the American church in particular. So the writings of Dorothy Day and the Berrigan brothers are still super influential for me. B: Yeah, I think for me, the years before I came out and the first years after I came out, I spent a lot of time hashing and rehashing those clobber passages and reading all these books about apologetics. I didn’t really make much movement, from the time that I first had this inkling that I liked boys until a few years after I came out. It was really starting to look at moving away from apologetics and into queer theology, liberation theology. Listening to actual queer people talk about their faith, rather than just constantly defending at against or what I am not, made all of the difference and how things started to click into place. So I definitely recommend that for you. So let’s move on to the next question, shall we? FS: Yeah! Let’s do it. This one comes from Miranda and the question is: “How can we love our neighbors when our opinions and beliefs are so different? It’s so hard to find the good when our heads are butting so much.” B: Oh! I feel this! FS: Yes! B: Friends, neighbors, family altogether. I think one thing, sort of mental shifts that’s been helpful for me is switching from the idea of there are good people and there are bad people, to we are all people doing our best, hopefully with what we’ve got. All of us, whether the people that we might traditionally label as good or bad have redeeming qualities, and they do stuff that’s hurtful and harmful. I like to think of myself as a good person, but if I only ever think of myself and my loved ones as good people, then I don’t notice the ways in which I participate in white supremacy, sexism, even cis-supremacy right? So focusing less on judging the person’s whole entire character, and more about getting specific on actions and impact has been helpful for me. So then I can love in whatever ways that looks like the person while not condoning bad stuff that they do, I think. What about you Shay? FS: I think for me, it’s figuring out what this relationship look like with folks that have harmful and oppressive views, and realizing that a) I don’t have to be in relationship with everyone. That’s been really impactful even thinking around family, right? My family is not owed a relationship with me if they continue to react in ways that are harmful to my well-being. I think also figuring out that there are places where I can have conversations and be in some type of relationships with folks, but I am no longer willing to engage around certain issues because I know that folks minds are unwilling to change. So that it is unhealthy for me to continue to engage around those things. I also think that sometimes frictive relationships are important when we’re doing the work of justice, meaning that if white people are called to confront white supremacy all the time, and then it’s our job to do that so that people of color don’t have to do that. So it’s important that we don’t sweep bad views under the rug so that we can have a happy relationship with our neighbors or with our racist Uncle. You also have to figure out the safety and what is healthy for you. We have some great resources on our website around self-care, you can go to queertheology.com/selfcare. There are some courses and workbooks and articles, and if you think that you might need that. Especially around dealing with family and unaffirming family, I recommend that you check out those resources. B: Yeah, all of what you said and I think like, to be in a relationship with someone, vulnerability is so important and also people have to earn our vulnerability. So, like you were saying, not everyone is owed that. Also to your point of that sometimes some friction and tension in relationships is good and important thing. Knowing when you’ve got that to give and when you don’t, and I know for me, sometimes I’m just unwilling or unable to debate the rightness of my queerness or my polyness. So I’m probably more likely to take a bow out on that one, and then recognizing that sometimes it will be hard to confront family and friends about racism and transphobia, but I’m not personally affected by it. It’s not my character or life on the line there, so I feel called into that space to have those conversations and step into that conflict. So figuring out when those moments that you want to lean in and when are the moments when you wanna tap out all the while, like Shay said, figuring out the important boundaries, healthy boundaries. There’s all that at queertheology.com/selfcare. All the while that you’re doing all of that, sort of trying to see the good in people even while identifying the real harm that comes from their actions or their policies or their votes sometimes. FS: Yes. So those are the questions for this time. Reminder if you’ve got questions that you want us to feature on the podcast, connect@queertheology.com. Let us know that it’s a question for the podcast and we’ll do one of these again soon. B: Remember to go to queertheology.com/giveaway to enter our LGBTQ Christian book giveaway. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we dived into: Attachments to saints and theologians People who are influential to us Handling relationships with families, friends, and neighbors Fr. Shay’s book: Walking Towards Resurrection, which you can check at queertheology.com/resurrection Recommended links to check out: queertheology.com/selfcare and queertheology.com/community Plus details to the mega giveaway, details on all the prizes, and how to enter. Visit queertheology.com/giveaway Also, if you have questions for us that you’d like to be featured in one of our podcast episodes, please send them over to connect@queertheology.com, and make sure to let us know that this question is for the podcast. Photo by Claudia The post Q&A + Book Giveaway appeared first on Queer Theology.

Day by day, the scripture reminds us to always find a way to reach out to others, be there for the underprivileged, and be present with the oppressed. It’s a blessing to be accepted, affirmed and be found, but equally (if not more) a blessing to find the lost and embrace them with love and acceptance. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B: Hello, hello, hello! Today is Sunday, September 15th 2019, we’re going to be taking a look at Luke 15:1-10. I’ll read it to you now and it’s also available through the show notes of this episode at queertheology.com/294 if you want to read along there. All the tax collectors and sinners were gathering around Jesus to listen to him. The Pharisees and legal experts were grumbling, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose someone among you had one hundred sheep and lost one of them. Wouldn’t he leave the other ninety-nine in the pasture and search for the lost one until he finds it? And when he finds it, he is thrilled and places it on his shoulders. When he arrives home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Celebrate with me because I’ve found my lost sheep.’ In the same way, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who changes both heart and life than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need to change their hearts and lives. “Or what woman, if she owns ten silver coins and loses one of them, won’t light a lamp and sweep the house, searching her home carefully until she finds it? When she finds it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Celebrate with me because I’ve found my lost coin.’ In the same way, I tell you, joy breaks out in the presence of God’s angels over one sinner who changes both heart and life.” Shay, what do we do with this? FS: I am so intrigued to read this passage again. You know, this is one that was read all the time when I was growing up in my church. I feel like I have heard sermons on this passage for years and years and years and years. I mean you know, they often centered on converting people… B: Yuuuppp! FS: …and there’s this need to evangelize, and witness, and share our faith. Just a lot about that. I’m actually preaching on this passage this Sunday and have been thinking a lot about what’s a new take on it, is there a new take on it, and what do I wanna say. You know, I’m part of a Lutheran church, an older congregation — probably in a lot of ways shrinking congregation. I think that many mainline churches that are shrinking, there’s a lot of anxiety about: how do we get more people to come to our church, how do we grow our numbers. It’s this sense of we just have to fill the congregation, right? I’m struck by both these stories that Jesus tells. The message isn’t: “Be really great and get a lot of people to come into your congregation.” It’s like, “There are lost people out there, go and find them, and be where they are.” So I’m struck by that kind of turn around especially for the kind of liberal mainline church who are not comfortable with ideas like witnessing and converting people. What does it look like to then live in a world in such a way that you’re going out after people who are lost. And I don’t think of lost in a sense of like non-Christians. I think of lost in a sense of people who are experiencing despair, or who are searching for meaning and don’t know how to find it, or who are trapped in their lives and feeling depressed about that. What is it that we have to offer that could be helpful for them. It’s about going and being with people in those spaces and not necessarily like bringing them in into our congregation. And I think that that has to be the conversation. These ideas can’t be transactional anymore. They can’t be: “I’m going to be nice to you, so you join my church and save it from dying.” It’s gonna have to be: “What does it mean to live out in our faith in new ways when so many people don’t wanna come to church on Sunday morning?” That’s not exactly a queer take, but that’s something tthat I’m really thinking about for my own context for this Sunday. What about you? B: Yeah, I also heard of this passage a lot growing up. Sometimes it was, they would tell us that we are supposed to be excited about when we converted people or like if we’re good Christians our whole lives and some terrible person became a Christian at the end of their life, they still could go to heaven and God will almost be happy. It sounds like a good thing, but also, there’s a twinge with this like, I don’t know, weird jealousy or something. I was super, super involved in young life growing up and they have these summer camps for a week at a time. We’re like bringing out high school kids from all around the country and the target audience is people who are not evangelical Christians, to try and convert them. And literally, at the end of the week, they have people who have decided to “give their life over to Jesus”, like stand up and everyone claps and they play music and it’s like a literal celebration. The waters that we swim in are tainited by conservative, fundamentalist, and evangelical Christianity. So it’s really tempting to feel like that’s the real version of Christianity and our understanding of it is somehow like an adaptation. I wanna push back on that like that evangelical Christianity as we know today is relatively modern invention like within the past 100-200 years, right? I remember a few years ago, one of my boy friends from college have been not out for a long time. We were in our late 20s and he came out. I remember saying, “Oh! The angels are celebrating in heaven today! So and so, came out.” I do see this parallel between coming out or embracing your LGBTQ identity, and being found. Before we come out, we’re like literally separated from the queer community. We are literally separated. From any of us for are in anti-LGBT versions of Christianity. We’re like separated from a faith that is giving us life, so we’re like in this place of metaphoric darkness. We need a woman to come bring her lamp out to come find the coin that’s missing right? It’s dark, and scary, and depressing, and there’s all sorts of research that shows that not being accepted and affirmed in your queer identity has negative mental, physical, and health repurcussions. And so, we’ve got this good news of the gospel of tthe queer Jesus Christ. So I thought that: A. To you point earlier, it’s a good thing to share it. And not to share it in a, say this prayer with and you become a Christian, and then it stops there. But like, we have light, we have healing, we have community. If you’re alone or hurting or in despair, as you were saying, or have needs to be meeting, as you as well say elsewhere. This is a place that we should come together and celebrate this beloved community. That’s my, I guess slightly more queer ttake on tthis passage. I also find some real insight into coming back to these passages, and realizing like oh no, the Bible is alive, all of it,from Genesis to Revelation for LGBTQ people and there is a good word in there for us too. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we touched on: The anxiety that some churches feel over the decreasing number of churchgoers Finding the “lost” and how we should help How embracing LGBTQ folks is in the same lens as being found Luke 15:1-10 All the tax collectors and sinners were gathering around Jesus to listen to him. The Pharisees and legal experts were grumbling, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose someone among you had one hundred sheep and lost one of them. Wouldn’t he leave the other ninety-nine in the pasture and search for the lost one until he finds it? And when he finds it, he is thrilled and places it on his shoulders. When he arrives home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Celebrate with me because I’ve found my lost sheep.’ In the same way, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who changes both heart and life than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need to change their hearts and lives. “Or what woman, if she owns ten silver coins and loses one of them, won’t light a lamp and sweep the house, searching her home carefully until she finds it? When she finds it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Celebrate with me because I’ve found my lost coin.’ In the same way, I tell you, joy breaks out in the presence of God’s angels over one sinner who changes both heart and life.” Photo by Garrett Sears The post Being Found – Luke 15:1-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

When faced with tremendous pressure and issues in life, it sometimes becomes difficult to see past the pain, the anxiety and the stress. But luckily, we have been blessed to have the chance to choose life and choose who we surround ourselves with, in this life. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. Hello, hello, hello! Today is Sunday, September 8, 2019 we’re going to be looking at Deuteronomy 30:15-20. I will read it to you now from the Common English Bible. Look here! Today I’ve set before you life and what’s good versus death and what’s wrong. If you obey the Lord your God’s commandments that I’m commanding you right now by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments, his regulations, and his case laws, then you will live and thrive, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you refuse to listen, and so are misled, worshipping other gods and serving them, I’m telling you right now that you will definitely die. You will not prolong your life on the fertile land that you are crossing the Jordan River to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth as my witnesses against you right now: I have set life and death, blessing and curse before you. Now choose life—so that you and your descendants will live— by loving the Lord your God, by obeying his voice, and by clinging to him. That’s how you will survive and live long on the fertile land the Lord swore to give to your ancestors: to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Okay Shay, there’s some interesting messages in here. What do you make of this? FS: Yeah, I mean obviously the first thing that comes to mind is just the beauty of this idea of choosing life, and that life and death are set before us, and that we have the opportunity to choose life for ourselves. I think that’s really beautiful. I think that this idea of listening to your heart and trusting your heart to be able to choose life is beautiful and I think important especially for queer and trans folks who are often taught to not trust our bodies and our hearts. Instead, we are supposed to just trust things external to us. But I also think that there’s something here about, my sense is that this was around the time when the Hebrew people, the Israelites are about to be sent into exile again. Or have been wandering. There’s also the sense that by staying close to the community, by doing this work of choosing life, that’s what’s gonna help them survive all of the hardships that are ahead. I think that stuck out to me on this read. I think in a tumultuous American time, particularly, this sense of choosing life, of investing in your community, of doing the things that will give you survival is really resonating and sticking out to me. B: Yeah, you know, we talked in one of the past few weeks about how many of us grew up a conservative type of Christian and got messages about what the Bible meant and was saying. So it’s really easy for me to see this and say, oh by walking in the ways of God, and keeping God’s commandments, God’s regulations, and God’s case laws, then you’ll live. That the evangelical church gets to define what all of that means? This is a beautiful message for people living in this time, and now we’re living in a different time. We have to figure out what does that means for us. I love what you saying about being in excile, being vulnerable, and keeping in the community. I think about how the queer community is such a vibrant life-giving thing for so many people. That part of what is so devastating about the closet is that you’re like cut off from this community of people who are like you, who have been there before you, who understand what you’re going through, who have made the mistakes so that you might not have to. And so, in many ways, coming out of the closet, or choosing to transition, or getting connected to other queer folks, is choosing life. It’s not about, you have to choose this version of God’s commandments that some pastor on TV tells you is the right way to honor God. But look in front of yourselves, and see what’s good, and see the blessings in your life, and choose to be connected to that. I often say, just choose life. We know the research about what happens if you accept or don’t accept your queer kids. We know the research about accepting yourself as a queer person. We know the research about having supportive friends. Just choose life! I say it all the time. Part of that is an intellectual choice to say, believe good things about yourself and hold on to theology that is life-giving. Part of that is like what Shay is talking about, be in community with people who will take care of you, and nourish you, and understand you, and walk alongside you. Just like the importance of being in communion with queer Christians is so, so, so, so important. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today, we talked about: The beautiful opportunity we have to choose life How choosing life relates to queer and trans folks The importance of being in community with queer folks instead of keeping to yourself Living as queer while surrounding yourself with supportive people will make things a little bit easier We’ve looked into this same passage before which you can listen to here. Deuteronomy 30:15-20 Look here! Today I’ve set before you life and what’s good versus death and what’s wrong. If you obey the Lord your God’s commandments that I’m commanding you right now by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments, his regulations, and his case laws, then you will live and thrive, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you refuse to listen, and so are misled, worshipping other gods and serving them, I’m telling you right now that you will definitely die. You will not prolong your life on the fertile land that you are crossing the Jordan River to enter and possess. I call heaven and earth as my witnesses against you right now: I have set life and death, blessing and curse before you. Now choose life—so that you and your descendants will live— by loving the Lord your God, by obeying his voice, and by clinging to him. That’s how you will survive and live long on the fertile land the Lord swore to give to your ancestors: to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Photo by Pablo Heimplatz The post What does it mean to choose life? – Deuteronomy 30:15-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Honoring marriage or a relationship is not only for straight relationships. More often than not, people who are in queer relationships take faithfulness even more seriously. This episode also shares how there are more important things to focus on in this world than to nit-pick other people’s relationships. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Hello and welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast this week we’re taking a look at the text for Sunday, September 1st. We’re gonna look at Hebrews 13:1-8, and I’m gonna read it for us now. Keep loving each other like family. Don’t neglect to open up your homes to guests, because by doing this, some have been hosts to angels without knowing it. Remember prisoners as if you were in prison with them, and people who are mistreated as if you were in their place. Marriage must be honored in every respect, with no cheating on the relationship, because God will judge the sexually immoral person and the person who commits adultery. Your way of life should be free from the love of money, and you should be content with what you have. After all, he has said, I will never leave you or abandon you. This is why we can confidently say, The Lord is my helper, and I won’t be afraid. What can people do to me? Remember your leaders who spoke God’s word to you. Imitate their faith as you consider the way their lives turned out. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! So let’s continually offer up a sacrifice of praise through him, which is the fruit from our lips that confess his name. Don’t forget to do good and to share what you have because God is pleased with these kinds of sacrifices. B: Oh man! FS: There’s a lot in here! B: Yeah. We’re reading this passage and I’m like, yeah, love each other like family, this is going to be great, we’re gonna talk about queer chosen family, open up your homes to guests, yes! Remember prisoners, the mistreated, and then I can almost hear in my head this record scratch, eerrr eerrr talking about marriage and I realize in myself that despite being a Christian my whole life and openly queer for over a decade — oh my God, 15 years at this point — closer to 2 decades than 1 — and I’ve been open and polyamorous for eight-plus years. I’m finding that sometimes my extinct is to clench up a little bit whenever marriage or relationship are talked about in the Bible because I don’t always trust it. And then I realize, oh wait! Marriage must be honored in every respect like no cheating on the relationship. I was like, oh yeah! I actually do take relationships and commitment in a relationship very, very seriously. I think sometimes even more serious than people who are monogamously married. And there is no cheating in my relationship, and I don’t know, I can’t say for certain whether or not, the author of this passage intended to be endorsing queer-polyamorous relationships to millennia in the future. But I do know that if you look at the spirit of this, that actually queer & polyamorous relationships fit right into this and are not so antithetical to it as folks might assume on first brush. So that was the first thing that jumped out at me, what about you Shay? FS: Yes, there are two things for me, kind of going off what you just said. I think part of this too, is understanding the historical context about what these writers were trying to do and who they were trying to protect, right? In a setting where women were able to be practically discarded, to say that you had to respect your marriage relationship and that you shouldn’t commit adultery was really protecting someone who was marginalized and oppressed in that community. I look at so many heterosexual and even heterosexual-Christian relationships today, and I think, well jeez, you’re still not respecting women and you’re still oppressing and marginalizing people who are vulnerable. So that kind of comes up for me in reading about this passage. And the other thing is that I’ve heard a lot about sexual immorality and adultery in the Christian communities. I have not heard very much about prisons and prisoners, and respecting those who are mistreated and opening your homes to guests, and you know… B: Not loving money. FS: Not loving money!!! So it’s like, again this idea that gay and queer Christians are the ones that “cherry picks” scripture is just not true. I think evangelical Christians do it all the time. I think that often they read this passage, even when they are talking about prisoners, they are talking about prisoners so they can convert them, not so they can actually be in solidarity with them, and treat them well in prison. So I think that this passage still really speaks today, and I think often queer and trans-folks are the folks that are the ones who are opening their homes to guests, and paying attention to people in prison, and paying attention to the oppressed and marginalized, and probably be more responsible and faithful in their relationships than even a lot of heterosexual Christians. I don’t see this passage as an indictment against my own queerness and transness. But it is a good reminder of where the places I could still be doing more. B: Yeah. And you know, I think that when I was first figuring out my queerness and how that fits into my faith. I felt like progressive Christianity or queer Christianity was this modified version of the real Christianity which I had grown up with. And it’s important for me to remember when you were saying all this stuff about not honoring this, and this, and that, queer Christians and progressive Christians have just as much of a claim, if not more of a claim to the Christian tradition than conservatives, evangelicals, prosperity gospel, anti-gay Christians, right? It’s not like they are the real ones and we are the modification of it. We are both laying claim to this and I always love going back to Matthew 7, “Judge the tree by its fruit.” We’re both saying that we’re Christians and we can’t say that we’re the real ones and they are not the real Christians. We’re all making Christian theological claims, but “judge the tree by its fruit”, and what fruit are our faith bearing. I just look at my life and the lives of other queer Christians that I know. There’s some tasty, tasty fruit there and I’m so excited to be part of this movement with all ya’ll. We talked about the historical context and Shay was talking about you have to understand that this was intended to honor women, and all that. So we are in the midst of registration for a How to Read the Bible course, we also recently did a Christianity and Polyamory course, and we are gonna be doing one about sex coming up. If any of the stuff that we’ve talked about in this podcast episode is resonating with you, you can learn more about the various courses and groups that we’re putting together at queertheology.com/courses. And add your name to the list of any ones that catch your eye that you might be interested. Again that’s queertheology.com/courses and we would love to dive even deeper into these topics if we have time for in this short podcast episodes. That is all for now and we will see you next week. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we talked about… Honoring marriage or relationships regardless of whether you are heterosexual or queer Who is really “cherry-picking” the scripture? How the writers of this passage were protecting the marginalized and oppressed — the women How Christian communities focus more on adultery and sexual immorality over prisoners and the mistreated We have tons of exciting courses lined up for you, and you can check if any of these courses excite you by going to queertheology.com/courses. Hebrews 13:1-8 Keep loving each other like family. Don’t neglect to open up your homes to guests, because by doing this, some have been hosts to angels without knowing it. Remember prisoners as if you were in prison with them, and people who are mistreated as if you were in their place. Marriage must be honored in every respect, with no cheating on the relationship, because God will judge the sexually immoral person and the person who commits adultery. Your way of life should be free from the love of money, and you should be content with what you have. After all, he has said, I will never leave you or abandon you. This is why we can confidently say, The Lord is my helper, and I won’t be afraid. What can people do to me? Remember your leaders who spoke God’s word to you. Imitate their faith as you consider the way their lives turned out. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! So let’s continually offer up a sacrifice of praise through him, which is the fruit from our lips that confess his name. Don’t forget to do good and to share what you have because God is pleased with these kinds of sacrifices. Photo by Brooke Cagle The post What It Means to Honor Marriage (and other important lessons) – Hebrews 13:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.