Queer Theology

As you may know by now, we’re taking a break this December to work on things behind the scenes. We are reorganizing and redesigning the website to make it more helpful for everyone. Also, we are taking this time to brainstorm on how to make the podcast even better. So stay tuned for that. Until then, here’s one of our favorite Christmas-themed podcasts. The birth of Jesus brings out a lot of emotions and learnings for Christianity, but most especially to queer folks. As we fight against injustice and oppression, we sometimes get frustrated at ourselves, at our lack of power, and our lack of time. But the narrative reminds us of someone who was born a child, learned His way through life and experience, and ultimately fulfilled His purpose on Earth. So take the time to learn. Breathe deeply. Be patient. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast, Father Shay here. Brian and I are taking a bit of a break for the month of December. So we’re replaying some of our favorite episodes from Advent and Christmas’ past. We hope you enjoy them! This week, Brian and I are looking at the lectionary text for December 22 and we are gonna take a look at the Matthew text which is Matthew 1:18-24 which is a pretty common one read around this time of the year. One of the birth narratives of Jesus. So Brian, what comes up for you when you read this? B: I’m really glad that we get to look at this passage because my understanding of this story from when I was an Evangelical to how I understand this today is just so different. I think it really sort of highlights the value that Queer Theology brings to people. Not just Queer Theology, but progressive theology, liberation theology. And so what sticks out to me is that Jesus the Messiah, was born to an unwed woman living under occupation in the Middle East right? I mean that’s just not at all how I imagined Jesus being born. After his birth, they have to flee, so they’re immigrants. So I think it’s really interesting where God chooses to become incarnate and dwell among us and with whom. Right from the very beginning, right from the birth of Jesus, God is doing that in the margins. As a Queer Christian who finds himself marginalized through times, I find that really powerful to imagine that God didn’t come to the seat of power. He came to the margins.  What about you Shay? FS: You know I resonate with all of that for sure. I think also in this passage, I’m fascinated by Joseph and it’s funny because the different birth narratives in Matthew and Luke, they are so different. In this one, pretty much the whole thing is told through Joseph’s perspective. I just find him to be this, a really fascinating figure. Obviously, he was engaged to be married and finds out his beloved or his betrothed is pregnant from the Holy Spirit. And he tries to do right by her. I’m just really kind of touched by that. Also, fascinated by the fact that he then kind of disappears from the narrative. Like he is around for Jesus’ birth and then he’s gone. So I have a lot of questions about what happened to Joseph and what role did he have in Jesus’ life. I think that’s a really fascinating story. There was this great scene in the nativity story which as a film – there are things to quibble with. There’s this lovely scene where he and Mary are on the road to Bethlehem and they’re finally talking about how they feel about what’s happening to them. Joseph says to Mary, “I wonder if I’ll be able to teach him anything.” I thought it was such a touching moment in the film and showed the humanity of this man about to become a father, but clearly, there’s something special about this kid, and so what do you do with that? I think that’s really interesting. B: I’m also fascinating – or think it’s powerful, that at one point the Messiah was a child, and Joseph probably did teach him things, and Mary and Joseph fed him and clothe him. He went and learned in the synagogue. So, not to compare myself to Jesus [laughs] but, I think that we’re all on our own journeys and we don’t come into this world knowing everything. So if the Christ can be born a child and have to learn, certainly Brian G. Murphy, who is trying to be a better person and live my life justly, surely I have things to learn as well. To give myself permission to not get hung up when I mess up or when I don’t know something. To always be learning and growing so that I can continue that journey of growth.  FS: Yeah, I mean if you think about it, Jesus didn’t really start His ministry until He was in His 30’s. So I wonder, too, and I think this is a really important point. It took Him a while to find what exactly was that He was called to do. It took Him 30 years to start His public ministry and we don’t really know what He was doing during that time. But one would assume that He was learning. One would assume that living under occupation was shaping His consciousness and was maybe creating in Him an activist spirit that was getting ready, but that He wasn’t ready until He was 30 to really start a movement. I think that’s something that’s – I often feel impatient, right? Or I’m too old to be doing anything, and I’m 33… B: Time to get crucified! [laughs] FS: Time to get crucified right? But sometimes worried that like: “Oh man! I’ve missed out on being able to be a part of the movement.” It’s like, “No! It takes time, just chill out and it will happen.” B: Yeah. I think also that’s a good reminder to me as a white man that I often feel this, “Oh! Now I learned about something and now I wanna fix it!” Sometimes it takes time to learn enough and formulate a plan and talk with other people before you launch your movement. So to folks in all different strides, it’s okay to be patient. Maybe at the first sight of injustice, you gotta have to start your own movement, but take the time to learn and be shaped by experiences around you. And when the time comes to enter Jerusalem and take the stand, ride in on a donkey and take your stand, but it’s okay to build the movement. FS: We hope you enjoyed this vintage Queer Theology podcast. Just as a reminder, we are taking a break for the month of December so that we can regroup, and recoup, and head into the New Year feeling fresh. If you want to support us, you can go to patreon.com/queertheology. Your support is making all of the difference in making this work sustainable. We’ll see you next time.  [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: What’s up with Matthew’s birth narrative? What does it mean that the child Jesus was born where and when he was? What can we learn from this story as queer people? Brian and Shay tackle a common Christmas story and put a queer spin on it. Thank you for listening to this podcast. If this or any of our podcasts mean something to you, or you find the articles and videos transformative, engaging and inspiring we would like to ask for your support in order for us to continue with this work and touch more lives. It would mean the world to us if you can visit and support us at patreon.com/queertheology. Matthew 1:18-24 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. When Mary his mother was engaged to Joseph, before they were married, she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit. Joseph her husband was a righteous man. Because he didn’t want to humiliate her, he decided to call off their engagement quietly. As he was thinking about this, an angel from the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because the child she carries was conceived by the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you will call him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” Now all of this took place so that what the Lord had spoken through the prophet would be fulfilled:Look! A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, And they will call him, Emmanuel.(Emmanuel means “God with us.”)When Joseph woke up, he did just as an angel from God commanded and took Mary as his wife. Photo by Pro Church Media The post What Child Is This? Matthew 1:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

This December, we are taking a break from the regular lectionary reading to recoup, regroup and redesign the website. We are working hard at making sure that for 2020, Queer Theology will be even more useful. So for this week, here’s a vintage podcast—one of our best Advent podcasts. This week’s passage is part of Mary’s Magnificat — a badass hymn that shows how she understands God. Already, before Jesus is even born, we see the seeds of what will become his ministry planted and nurtured by his mother Mary. Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B: Hello there! It’s Brian G. Murphy, I’m one of the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and one of the hosts of this podcast. As you may know, the Queer Theology podcast has been around for a long time and so this year for Advent, we’re digging into the archives and republishing some of our favorite and most popular Advent and Christmas-themed episodes. So we’ve got that coming for you shortly. We also, as you may have heard, recently launched a Patreon campaign to make this work more sustainable. So thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has donated. It has made a huge difference in our lives and warmed my heart. I’m super thankful and grateful for that. We still have a bit of a ways to go to reach our goal, so if you’re interested in keeping the podcast, and the website, and the articles, and the emails, and all that good stuff alive we would treasure your support. You can go to patreon.com/queertheology to make a pledge. But we are not wasting any time even though we’re not quite at our goal. We’re getting started on the work of re-working this work, [laughs] lots of work words there. So we’re taking December to do some behind the scenes work. We’re regrouping here on the podcast and we’re redesigning the website, so even though these are old episodes we are still hard at work, and we’re looking forward to sharing all that with you soon. But for now, sit back, relax, and enjoy this Advent-themed episode. Merry almost Christmas from the Queer Theology podcast! This week we’re taking a look at a lectionary text for Sunday, December 24th. We’re going to be looking at Luke 1:47-55. I will read it to you now from the Common English Bible. In the depths of who I am I rejoice in God my savior. He has looked with favor on the low status of his servant. Look! From now on, everyone will consider me highly favored because the mighty one has done great things for me. Holy is his name. He shows mercy to everyone, from one generation to the next, who honors him as God. He has shown strength with his arm. He has scattered those with arrogant thoughts and proud inclinations. He has pulled the powerful down from their thrones and lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich away empty-handed. He has come to the aid of his servant Israel, remembering his mercy, just as he promised to our ancestors, to Abraham and to Abraham’s descendants forever. [CEB] A-men. FS: Amen indeed. B: [laughs] Shay. Okay. How do we – what’s queer about this passage? FS: Oh – all of it. [both laugh] I love that this is the passage that is for Christmas Eve. This is Mary’s song – this is part of the Magnificat. We have this hymn, basically, sung by a young woman, who is a person of color, a refugee, pregnant and unmarried, and basically she sings this badass song saying, “God is going to send the rich away empty-handed, pull the arrogant down from their thrones, and lift up the lowly and fill the hungry. If that isn’t radical, I don’t know what is. And yet— B: Amen. FS: —how rarely did I hear anything like this preached in my churches growing up. I have never heard a, like, eff-the-rich Christmas Eve sermon at the candlelight service before we sing Silent Night. Right? [Brian laughs] It’s all about this sanitized, cute, baby being born. And maybe the baby does some good stuff in the world, but, like, I know in my churches growing up, that baby was on the cross before Christmas Eve even got over. He hadn’t even been born, and we had skipped his entire ministry. So I love this passage. I love that this is set up. I love that Mary gets to speak and have this huge hymn that becomes this hymn of the church. And I think that it’s queer because, a, women are still silent in our churches, especially young women. And b, this kind of upheaval of the order, where the hungry are fed and the poor are lifted up; that’s such a radical thing, and I think that, when we talk about who are the most marginalized, we’re still talking about – they’re still hungry people. There are still people who are poor and lowly who need to be lifted up. I think that we have, in this passage, this vision of what Jesus is coming to do and who he’s coming to be. I think that’s really beautiful. I have to laugh a little bit, because Rachel Held Evans on twitter the other day quoted Luke, and someone commented – a dude, of course— B: Duh. FS: —commented back, “You know, I was really on board with you, but your line about ‘the rich,’ that’s really offensive.” And she was like, “I was literally quoting the gospel. I don’t know what you want me to do.” I think that so often we ignore what is literally written in the gospel in order to make something else into our gospel. So, I love this passage of bringing this back, of like, ‘this is what it’s about.’ It’s uncomfortable sometimes. And that’s probably as it should be. B: You know, one of the sort of sayings that some folks bandy about about Christmas is like, a child came to save the world. For many people, that gets played out as like, this child came to grow up to get crucified on the cross to forgive us of our sins so we could get into Heaven. But here we have Mary, the mother of Jesus, being like, “No! This is what this means.” All those things that you just said, that the hungry are filled with good things, that the rich are sent away empty-handed, that the powerful are pulled down from their thrones. This was said at a time when there was a powerful person sitting on a throne. And obviously the gospels were written after Jesus’s ministry had concluded – he was no longer on earth anymore [laughs] but the movement was continuing on. To include this passage in what became the canon – not every single thing that was ever written about Jesus made it into our sacred text, our scripture. That could be a whole, multiple-episode look into why and what didn’t. But this got in! That early Christians were like, no, this right here, this is critical to the gospel. And what it means is, at a time when we’re being persecuted by the powerful, we’re going to still include that part of this movement is to pull the powerful down from their thrones and to lift up the lonely. That this was included matters. We’ve had a few really great passages over the past few weeks, sort of getting at the heart of God, and what it means to encounter the divine, and what salvation means and looks like. And that these really radical texts are right in our sacred texts and our Bibles that are in every single church in America, that these passages are included in the lectionary – it’s all sitting there, right in front of our faces, hiding in plain sight, just waiting for us to pay attention. So, if you’re a queer person, a progressive person, a radical person, who’s listening to this – who you are and the work that you’re doing is integral to the story of God. We need you to stick around and keep doing that work, and continuing to be a badass like Mary. That’s the Christmas story. FS: We know that that kind of work does start to take its toll on people, and especially around the holidays, when many of us have to deal with unaffirming family or churches. That can be really tough. We also just really want to encourage you to take care of yourself during this holiday season, to do the things you need to do to make sure that you can continue to do this work, to make sure that you are connecting with people who care about you and love you just as you are, to shore you up to continue to do this work. We’ve created all sorts of resources around self-care and around self-care at the holidays in particular over at Queer Theology. Brian, where can they find those? B: You can just go to QueerTheology.com/selfcare and we’ll send you over some videos and articles and worksheets, all about taking care of yourself, especially around the holidays, especially around unaffirming family and friends and churches. FS: We’re going to take next week off of the podcast to celebrate the holidays and to get ready for the new year ahead. We’ve got some really exciting stuff coming up, starting off right in January. We’re going to take a week off to get ready for that. We hope you have a wonderful holiday. We’ll be around if you need to reach out to us – you can always reach us at connect@queertheology.com. We’re really grateful for you all and hope that you have a great holiday and head into the new year feeling rested and loved and ready to take on the world. B: If you enjoyed this episode we would love to hear from you. We would love to hear your new thoughts on this old episode, so find us at any of the social media: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all of that jazz. Send us a message, tag us in a post, whatever floats your boat. Remember we still need some more help on Patreon to make this work possible: to continue the podcast; to continue the articles and the videos; the workshops and all that. If this work has been meaningful to you and you want to make sure that it survives, and thrives, and continues to touch lives. You can help us by pledging your support at patreon.com/queertheology. Thank you so much and we will see you next week. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: How is this hymn relates to queer folks?Mary’s side and her “truth” Holidays can be tough for LGBTQ folks with unaffirming families or churches. We put together a 3-part video series to help you through it. Get it here. Thank you for listening to this podcast. If this or any of our podcasts mean something to you, or you find the articles and videos transformative, engaging and inspiring we would like to ask for your support in order for us to continue with this work and touch more lives. It would mean the world to us if you can visit and support us at patreon.com/queertheology. Luke 1:47-55 In the depths of who I am I rejoice in God my savior. He has looked with favor on the low status of his servant. Look! From now on, everyone will consider me highly favored because the mighty one has done great things for me. Holy is his name. He shows mercy to everyone, from one generation to the next, who honors him as God. He has shown strength with his arm. He has scattered those with arrogant thoughts and proud inclinations. He has pulled the powerful down from their thrones and lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich away empty-handed. He has come to the aid of his servant Israel, remembering his mercy, just as he promised to our ancestors, to Abraham and to Abraham’s descendants forever.” The post Mary’s understanding of God – Luke 1:47-55 appeared first on Queer Theology.

December is probably the busiest time of the year, but at Queer Theology, December 2019 is a time to work extra hard from the backend to make sure that Queer Theology 2020 is LIT! So Brian and Shay are taking a break from the regular lectionary reading and instead, we will be showcasing some of our best Advent podcasts. So this week, it’s all about the meaning of Advent and how counter-cultural it is. What can we learn from waiting and longing? How does the Christmas story go against our American sensibilities? Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast, Father Shay here. Brian and I are taking a bit of a break for the month of December. So we’re replaying some of our favorite episodes from Advent and Christmas’ past. We hope you enjoy them! This week, Brian and I are talking about the third Sunday of Advent and we’re gonna take a look at the Isaiah passage and the Psalm. So, Brian, you seem pretty excited about Advent this year. What is resonating with you in these passages? B: These passages remind me that I’m not crazy. I think every year I get less and less excited about Christmas and more, and more, and more over it. I recently read this article about Advent and Christmas on the Huffington post and I realized/remembered that we’re not in Christmas time yet, we’re in Advent. I really love Advent. Ever since I was a little kid, O Come, O Come Emmanuel has been my favorite Christmas song. There’s just something about Emmanuel – God with us that’s why I find the Christian stories so compelling. So as I was reading the Isiah and the Psalm passages I remembered the things that I don’t like about modern Christmas, modern Christianity are not the Biblical parts of the story. And that we don’t wait for Jesus to be born so that He can make up for our pitiful existence and get us into heaven. We wait for Jesus to be born because it’s God incarnate in a broken world. He is coming to heal it. And so I look at this Isaiah passage where they talk about: “The desert and the dry land will be glad. The eyes of the blind will be opened, The ears of the deaf will be cleared.” I look at the Psalm passage and it says:  “The Lord: who makes prisoners free. The Lord: who makes the blind see. The Lord: who straightens up those who are bent low. The Lord: who loves the righteous. The Lord: who protects immigrants.” I’m like, “Yes!” this is the type of God that I believe in. Jesus was an immigrant, He was born to a single mother and we read at Psalm that we’re waiting for this Messiah and that is just really exciting to me. Especially as a queer person who spends a lot of time waiting for justice and equality. For the family to accept me. I understand the waiting and it’s also a really exciting time to be a queer person because lots of those things are coming to fruition. So these passages really resonate with me. FS: You know, at the church we’ve been reading The First Christmas by Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan, and that book really takes a look at the differences between the Matthew and Luke accounts of the Christmas story. But really, even more so, it takes a look at the ways in which the Christmas story is very much a setup in opposition to Rome. That all of the titles that Jesus was called in the gospels are the ones that were Ceasars’ title. So very much this idea that the Christmas story is really subversive. I think this idea of Advent is really subversive. It’s a time of waiting and I think for Americans were not very good often at waiting.  B: No. FS: It’s a time of longing and a culture that’s very much “I’m gonna get what I want, and I’m gonna get it right this second”, the idea of longing for something is not something that we talk about very often. So I love those ideas and those themes of Advent. But I also love this idea that the story of Christmas isn’t just something that happened 2000 years ago, nor is it something that’s just were waiting around until Jesus comes back. Right? But there’s something really present about this story. The fact that God is with us means that we can still be about the business of standing in opposition to empire and we can be about building the kingdom of God now. That’s really exciting to me. Much more exciting than kind of a sanitized and sentimental manger scene. FS: We hope you enjoyed this vintage Queer Theology podcast. Just as a reminder, we are taking a break for the month of December so that we can regroup, and recoup, and head into the New Year feeling fresh. If you want to support us, you can go to patreon.com/queertheology. Your support is making all of the difference in making this work sustainable. We’ll see you next time.  [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week.  Download the transcript (PDF)   Today’s episode highlights: We take a look at Isaiah and Psalm and share what these passages mean to us in relation to Advent Traditional vs. modern Christmas celebrations How Christmas is a setup against Rome Thank you for listening to this podcast. If this or any of our podcasts mean something to you, or you find the articles and videos transformative, engaging and inspiring we would like to ask for your support in order for us to continue with this work and touch more lives. It would mean the world to us if you can visit and support us at patreon.com/queertheology. Isaiah 35:1-10 The desert and the dry land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom like the crocus. They will burst into bloom, and rejoice with joy and singing. They will receive the glory of Lebanon, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon. They will see the Lord’s glory, the splendor of our God. Strengthen the weak hands, and support the unsteady knees. Say to those who are panicking: “Be strong! Don’t fear! Here’s your God, coming with vengeance; with divine retribution God will come to save you.” Then the eyes of the blind will be opened, and the ears of the deaf will be cleared. Then the lame will leap like the deer, and the tongue of the speechless will sing. Waters will spring up in the desert, and streams in the wilderness. The burning sand will become a pool, and the thirsty ground, fountains of water. The jackals’ habitat, a pasture;[a] grass will become reeds and rushes. A highway will be there. It will be called The Holy Way. The unclean won’t travel on it, but it will be for those walking on that way.[b] Even fools won’t get lost on it; no lion will be there, and no predator will go up on it. None of these will be there; only the redeemed will walk on it. The Lord’s ransomed ones will return and enter Zion with singing, with everlasting joy upon their heads. Happiness and joy will overwhelm them; grief and groaning will flee away. Psalm 146:5-10 The person whose help is the God of Jacob— the person whose hope rests on the Lord their God— is truly happy! God: the maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, God: who is faithful forever, who gives justice to people who are oppressed, who gives bread to people who are starving! The Lord: who frees prisoners. The Lord: who makes the blind see. The Lord: who straightens up those who are bent low. The Lord: who loves the righteous. The Lord: who protects immigrants, who helps orphans and widows, but who makes the way of the wicked twist and turn! The Lord will rule forever! Zion, your God will rule from one generation to the next! Praise the Lord! Photo by Zach LuceroThe post Waiting on Advent – Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalm 146:5-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

As you all may know by now, Brian and Shay are taking December to regroup, redesign the website and prepare for the relaunch of the podcast in 2020. We are working hard behind the scenes, so we will be republishing vintage, but some of our best Advent podcasts. As Advent draws near, let’s take a look at how this very important season resonates from a queer perspective. How does Advent and all the happenings in the world make it all seem like we are in anguish waiting, but also feeling like a new dawn is coming on the horizon? Episode TranscriptBrian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. B:     Hello there! It’s Brian G. Murphy, I’m one of the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and one of the hosts of this podcast. As you may know, the Queer Theology podcast has been around for a long time and so this year for Advent, we’re digging into the archives and republishing some of our favorite and most popular Advent and Christmas-themed episodes. So we’ve got that coming for you shortly. We also, as you may have heard, recently launched a Patreon campaign to make this work more sustainable. So thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has donated. It has made a huge difference in our lives and warmed my heart. I’m super thankful and grateful for that. We still have a bit of a ways to go to reach our goal, so if you’re interested in keeping the podcast, and the website, and the articles, and the emails, and all that good stuff alive we would treasure your support. You can go to patreon.com/queertheology to make a pledge. But we are not wasting any time even though we’re not quite at our goal. We’re getting started on the work of re-working this work, [laughs] lots of work words there. So we’re taking December to do some behind the scenes work. We’re regrouping here on the podcast and we’re redesigning the website, so even though these are old episodes we are still hard at work, and we’re looking forward to sharing all that with you soon. But for now, sit back, relax, and enjoy this Advent-themed episode. This week we’re going to break away from talking about one particular text for the lectionary. Instead, just tackle about Advent in general. So Shay, it’s Christmas time, it’s Advent what resonates for you with this time of year in general, and also from a queer perspective? FS:   I’ve been thinking a lot and preaching a lot about: the fact that Advent is really this time of waiting. But not just waiting for happy things, but really that there’s almost this anguish waiting in all of the passages leading up to Christmas in the lectionary. I think that with everything that’s going on in the world, with things that are happening in Ferguson and Ohio, and the marches that are happening all over the country. There’s something really poignant in this idea of an anguish waiting and cry for justice that really resonates with me. I’m so thankful to be part of a church tradition that makes space for some of these uncomfortable emotions, and allows us to sit with our pain and our grief, allows us to rail at the fact that things aren’t the way that they’re supposed to be. Then at the same token calls us to believe that a new birth is possible. I think that phrase “another world is possible”, there’s so much of that that resonates at this time of the year especially as we think about the way that Jesus’ coming brought about a shift in the world. Also, if we have our own awakening and get on board with justice that we can also create a shift in the world. So yeah, that’s what’s been going through my head the last couple of weeks. What about for you? B:     This year in particular, I’m thinking a lot about what this first Advent was really like. In the past, we’ve talked about what was the first Palm Sunday really like. I had never applied that to Advent until, I guess I have, but extra much this year. Especially in the wake of Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Black Lives Matter. The first Advent and the first Christmas wasn’t Mary in the suburbs and Jesus was born to live a chill life, and then die, and then magically our sins are forgiven. Right? Jesus was born in an occupied land to an oppressed people, armed instructions were not uncommon. This was a chaotic time and looking back obviously, the Gospels were written after the life and mystery of Jesus. But looking back on it, they have said it all began – this is our origin story right? It all began here. It’s easy to look back a hundred years later and say this was the beginning. You never know when you’re in it. Is this the beginning of the next big thing or is this just a — on the radar. But earlier before the podcast started, we were talking about it feels like “pregnant” with the possibility in the world right now. I’m particularly excited that I’ve over the years learned that there are areas in which I can lead, and I’m gifted in, called to that. And there are some areas and some times where I’m called to follow. When it comes to racial justice and police brutality, I’m glad that over the years I’ve learned to follow. What an honor and privilege it is to join into this movements, as a person who cares about my community and who cares about justice to say, I get to be a part of something bigger, but also it’s not just academic philisophical bigger thing; real lives hang in the balance. And we get to be a part of that. I think that was the same for Jesus right? The Advent story, real lives were affected by the coming of Jesus, that set off this whole amazing ministry. We’re not in the throes of His ministry yet, but something is entering into the world. It’s really cool to see that – as queer folks, and as people who are inspired by the Jesus story. That we have a place in that also. FS:   I’ve been loving watching the leaders of this movement are all really young which is really exciting to see. To see fierce, young activists who are really setting the stage for this new movement. That’s awesome. I’ve also loved watching how queer-inclusive they are. Many of the organizers in Ferguson and the ones that started the Black Lives Matter hashtag on Twitter are queer. That’s been really cool to see. The fact that they’re calling for inclusion of queer folks in the movement is really heartening and it’s exciting. To me, it seems like this is the moment where if we can all understand how our struggles are connected and support one another. For white folks to really follow and be a part of this movement, I think that that’s really exciting. These folks are doing amazing work and it’s awesome to see. B:     My friend Asher that I do Legalize Trans with – one of the co-founders of Legalize Trans, he’s from Ferguson. His dad still lives there and he’s at Vanderbilt Divinity, he goes back to Ferguson every second he can. And yet, these are, I like what you said Shay that we’re all already a part of this. It’s not like destiny is happening out there. We’re already a part of it, so get with it. If you enjoyed this episode we would love to hear from you. We would love to hear your new thoughts on this old episode, so find us at any of the social media: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all of that jazz. Send us a message, tag us in a post, whatever floats your boat. Remember we still need some more help on Patreon to make this work possible: to continue the podcast; to continue the articles and the videos; the workshops and all that. If this work has been meaningful to you and you want to make sure that it survives, and thrives, and continues to touch lives. You can help us by pledging your support at patreon.com/queertheology. Thank you so much and we will see you next week.  [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF)   Today’s episode highlights: How this church season resonates to us What does all of this waiting call us to do?   Thank you for listening to this podcast. If this or any of our podcasts mean something to you, or you find the articles and videos transformative, engaging and inspiring we would like to ask for your support in order for us to continue with this work and touch more lives. It would mean the world to us if you can visit and support us at patreon.com/queertheology.The post Advent: What Are We Waiting For? appeared first on Queer Theology.

Brian and Shay’s December will be a month to take a break from all podcast-related work to redesign the website and relaunch these podcasts. So with that, we will be republishing some of our best Advent podcasts from some years ago. Advent is starting and we share with you some ways that you can observe the season, even if you aren’t connected to a church or faith community. We also get into how Advent might be particularly resonant with LGBTQ folks and what the queer experience can add to the season. If you’re looking for a supportive, spiritual community, we would love to welcome you to Sanctuary Collective. Learn more at queertheology.com/community Episode Transcript Father Shay: Welcome back the Queer Theology podcast, Father Shay here. Brian and I are taking a bit of a break for the month of December. So we’re replaying some of our favorite episodes from Advent and Christmas’ past. We hope you enjoy them! Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast, this week we’re taking a look at the lectionary texts for December 2nd. This week is all about the end times and the end of the world, but it’s also the beginning of Advent. It’s kind of this strange lectionary choice [laughs] of all of these end of the world texts as we start the preparation, in our church calendar, of the birth of Jesus. We’re starting a new year, a new lectionary cycle, which is really exciting.  Today we thought we’d talk a little bit about Advent and some ways that you can maybe observe Advent, even if you’re not connected to a religious community, or you’re still trying to figure out what you believe about all of this faith and Christianity stuff. So Brian, as you think about Advent, what are some of the ways that you like to observe this season. What are some thoughts that come up for you when you think about Advent?  B: You know, I’m very aware of the weather changing and the days getting shorter, at least in the northern hemisphere. So for me, this time of Advent comes with a bit of a slowing down, sort of a more contemplative period, which aligns with the spirit of Advent. The Christian calendar was designed this way so that this spirit of waiting and reflecting aligns with a sort of natural cycle of slowing [laughs], and reflecting, and hibernating. So for me, this period of the end of November, December, really is a time of reflecting. I try to spend more time journaling. I just actually, a few days ago, recommitted to a daily meditation practice. So for me, I’m trying to be intentional about waiting and reflecting. There’s some other stuff too that I’ll talk about later, but what about you? [laughs] I don’t wanna talk forever and ever.  FS: I, too, love this season. I think the liturgical seasons that are a little bit more depressing [laughs] or slow or blue are my favorite, because they make space for us to not have everything all together, and for things to not be perfect. As someone who grew up evangelical, where there was such an emphasis on happy faith all of the time – you couldn’t actually have a bad thought or emotion – I really appreciate the ways that being a follower of the liturgical calendar allows space to grieve and to mourn and to sink into the darkness, and all of the ways that that is a part of what it means to be human. I love this sense of Advent for that, for acknowledging the longer nights and acknowledging the kind of longing and pain of the world as we wait for this hope that we’ve been promised. For me, it’s about just sitting with those emotions and allowing them to be present in my life.  And then, you know, as someone who is part of a community – it’s also about lighting candles, the Advent candles, and the O Antiphons that are spoken in church each week, where we remember a different element of Jesus. I think that that’s really important and special.  We’d love to offer some concrete suggestions for folks who might be celebrating Advent or wanting to observe Advent on their own. So Brian, what are some examples that you would give on ways that people can observe this season?  B: So I came up with a load of a list. I mentioned earlier sort of committing to a practice of daily meditation or daily prayer, and that can look however you want it to look. It can be sort of a more active prayer, it can be sort of sitting in silence, listening and waiting, it can be a mindfulness practice of noticing your breath or noticing the sounds around you – just really trying to be present as we wait and prepare for the coming of the Messiah. You might also, in addition to that or separately, read a poem a day. Find different poems from different sources that could speak to you, encourage you, inspire you – things like that.  Also, this could be a time of curling up on a couch with a book and reading a book about this season. Last year we read this book called The First Christmas inside of Sanctuary Collective by Borg and Crossan. It’s all about the First Christmas and what that meant to the early followers of Jesus. I definitely would recommend that book. What about you, Shay? What would you add?  FS: I think this is also a season to maybe do an act of kindness every day. It could be something as simple as sending a card to someone or donating money to a nonprofit that you really care about, or something more elaborate. I love the idea of Advent calendars – you can indulge in some whimsy and get the ones with chocolate behind every door, or a Lego mini figure, or whatever it is that works for you – just as a way to be intentional. We’re counting down, we’re waiting for this thing. Those Advent calendars can help us in the practice of waiting. I know that there’s also some justice-themed ones where there’s a different action every day. I think there’s also some Instagram challenges where you’re given a word of the day and you take a picture that is inspired by that word. There are ways to be creative in the counting down. I think too, the lighting of candles – whether you light candles every night, or whether you just light them on Sundays and read some scripture – it can be a really powerful thing to do, whether you put them in a wreath or do something different.  Brian, you and I were also talking about this idea that this is also an opportunity to sit loosely with both the Christian tradition and maybe pagan or natural traditions, right? Solstice comes up at this time. Realizing that these traditions aren’t antithetical to one another, but they can sit comfortably together, and you can observe both seasonal things and this Advent season at the same time.  B: You know, many of the Christian traditions come from pagan naturalist traditions already. They’re already intertwined. We get a surprising number of messages on our Tumblr about paganism or other sorts of non-Christian practices, Wicca… Christianity is already a hybrid, so you can definitely sink into those as that feels right for you.  And you know, I also want to just name that I think Advent is such a perfect time of year for LGBTQ Christians, because it’s holding these two things in tension. It’s dark and cold and a scary world, and you know, for many LGBTQ people, we know that. It’s scary to come out. Sometimes our family and friends don’t except us. And yet, Christians are in the midst of this of this darkness, waiting for the coming of the Messiah. I think LGBTQ Christians especially understand that. Waiting for our family to accept us, waiting for the church to change, waiting to be able to start testosterone or save for the surgeries that we need. This time of year can be particularly meaningful to LGBTQ Christians, and also particularly hard for folks with, you know, Thanksgiving having just passed and Christmas coming up. It’s a time that we are often forced to confront our families of origin and our relationships, or lack thereof, with them.  If this time of year is hard for you, we totally understand that. A few years ago, around this time of year, I was massively depressed [laughs] and had a terrible relationship with my partner Peter’s family. And in the midst of that, somehow managed to summon just enough strength to put together an LGBTQ Christian guide to self care. I didn’t want folks to have to go through what I was going through so I created this free, three-part video series about it that you can get at QueerTheology.com/selfcare. That also tells you a little bit more about this more extensive self care toolkit and guide that we put together inside of Sanctuary Collective, which is also just an amazing place. LGBTQ folks and also straight, cis-gender supporters from around the world are in there, learning and growing and supporting each other together.  This time of year, in particular, I feel like Sanctuary Collective is extra valuable for folks because this time of year is just so fraught. So I encourage you, if you don’t have a supportive community in your day-to-day life or you’re just looking to grow and deepen your faith and your sense of queerness – or sort of be a better supporter – we would love to have you inside. You can learn more about that at QueerTheology.com/community.  So yeah, that’s all for now. We’ll talk to you next week! FS: We hope you enjoyed this vintage Queer Theology podcast. Just as a reminder, we are taking a break for the month of December so that we can regroup, and recoup, and head into the New Year feeling fresh. If you want to support us, you can go to patreon.com/queertheology. Your support is making all of the difference in making this work sustainable. We’ll see you next time.  [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week.  Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: Some ways to help you slow down and reflect on the past year Book suggestion: The First Christmas by Borg and Crossan The Christian tradition and pagan tradition LGBTQ Christian Guide to Self Care We hope that this episode refreshed you a bit. While we take some time off of the podcast in order to regroup and implement our 2020 plans, we ask for your support so we can continue to make this work sustainable. If you would like to help, please visit patreon.com/queertheology. It would mean a lot to us. Photo by Lukas Langrock The post 5 Ways to Observe Advent (and how queerness is part of that) appeared first on Queer Theology.

Our podcast interview mini-series has come to an end and we had a blast sharing some listener stories with you. More’s coming (hopefully) if we can get the support we need over on Patreon. In this episode, Fr. Shay and Brian share some 2020 plans for Queer Theology, respond to a reader asking if it’s ok to lie, talk about self-care around unaffirming families (especially during the holidays), and give a sneak peek of what’s to come on the podcast in December and in the new year.   Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast. It’s been a fun month here at the Queer Theology podcast. The past few weeks we’ve been featuring some interviews with listeners and Sanctuary Collective members and it’s been fun to hear some of those stories and share them with you. We had Indigo, Caryn and Brandon. If you missed those episodes, you can always head on over to queertheology.com/listen to check them out. So we’re done with the interviews for a while. We’re hoping that in the next year we can do more of these and with a wide range of folks. We are interested in doing a series with activists, a series with musicians, a series with parents, a series on sex and relationships, and just extending the episodes so that we can share more stories. The Bible is fun, but we’ve been talking about the Bible for six years, and so we want to add some more of you into these episodes. So with that, you’d probably know that we are in the midst of a bit Patreon push. The podcast, past 300 episodes a few weeks ago and we’re trying to make this work a little bit more sustainable, so we wanted to give you a quick update on that before diving into a listener email and talking about self-care as the winter holidays approach. To share some plans for what to look forward to on the podcast in December. So Shay, can you give us a little update on where things are with Patreon and remind folks why we are doing this. FS: Yeah! It’s been so amazing to see the response to our Patreon push already. So our goal was to raise $25000 a month in pledges in order to make this work sustainable. As Brian said, we’ve been doing this for six years. We figured that we make about an average of $2/hour for all of the work that we do which is creating tons and tons of free resources and doing lots and lots of pastoral counseling. We’ve figured out that we’ve answered over 20,000 emails since we started the website which is just wild. And so, we’ve really come to the realization that this work is not sustainable at that $2 an hour thing. So we wanted to see if our community was interested in supporting the work and helping make it sustainable for the long haul. It looks the answer is yes or at least for some of you which is really fantastic. We are up to just under $500 a month pledged on Patreon which is huge. It’s not even close to our goal at this point, so we’re still trying to figure out what that looks like moving forward. So if you’re interested in joining those pledges, you can go to patreon.com/queertheology. We have so many plans and so much more that we want to be able to do, but we just can’t do it at this point unless we have some help. I know Brian, for you, this is even a more scary time because you got laid off from your job. B: Yeah, I sure did. A few months ago, I got laid off from my full-time job and so the entire time that QueerTheology.com has existed, I’ve had a full-time job that pays me to exist. Sometimes it pays me for things for QueerTheology when we wanted to do something new and there isn’t enough money for it. Like Shay and I have dipped into our own personal savings to make this work happen. So it’s a little bit scary now to not have that in and obviously, $2/hour is not enough to live off of anywhere in the country. So yeah, as I look forward to next year, I really want to have the time to continue dedicating myself to QueerTheology.com, but also have to be staring reality in the face and recognizing that I might have to scale back or reevaluate what that looks like if I have to spend more time looking for work or spend more time on freelance work. So I would like to keep doing this work and having your support would help do that. I know that $25000/month might seem like a huge number, but actually running this project is quite costly. Our podcast hosting is $30/month, our website hosting is $30/month, our email — just to send out emails to y’all, is $200/month because there’s so many folks coming. Our web host keeps yelling at us to up our plan because the website is getting a lot of traffic, a lot of folks are visiting it. So it costs a lot of money just to keep this up and running. Plus, there are two of us, so we divide everything by two. So that’s how we end up at $2/hour. We would love to continue hosting webinars, and the podcast, and the articles, and the videos, and do even more into the New Year. But we need some help to keep this rolling along. So like Shay said, if you could help us out at patreon.com/queertheology it would mean so so so much to us. FS: We know that some folks have said, “Well, you guys charge for courses and for Sanctuary Collective. Why do you need this other money on top of that?” The reality is that the money that we charge for the courses and for Sanctuary Collective is literally what we need to keep those things going. So this is on top of that. We’re not trying to get rich off of our work with Queer Theology. We’re really just trying to make it sustainable and honestly, be able to devote more time to it. We love this work. We love this community. We think it’s vital. We hear from people all the time how much it means to them and we just want to be able to continue doing it and be able to put food on the table. B: Pay my rent and get health insurance. Things like that. FS: In talking about plans for next year, we’ve got a whole bunch of ideas for courses that we want to roll out. We are going to do this reading the Bible through a queer lens course that we’ve been promising forever. It will happen in 2020. We’re super excited about that. We’re also going to do a sex and relationships course for folks who are trying to figure out what does it look like to create a healthy sexual ethic for yourself. How do you navigate things like dating as a queer Christian? And especially for those us who grew up in purity culture, who are unpacking things like shame and desire, and all of that. We want to dive into all of that with you and help you figure that out through the things that we’ve learned. Through the things that we’re going to uncover together. We’re going to have some more resources around polyamory and Christianity because that conversation is just blowing up. It’s everywhere. People are really wanting to have it and so we’re definitely going to do that. Lots of big plans for next year and we are super excited to be doing all of these with you.  B: Yeah and if these topics seem interesting to you, but you don’t have the time and the money to commit to a full course on that. We will also be sending some higher-level resources around each of those. You can head on over to queertheology.com/courses to indicate your interest in any of the courses we’ve talked about. We will make sure that you get all of the free resources and are the first to hear about registration about the more in-depth course. Another thing that you can do to help us, is if this podcast is meaningful to you, we would cherish a review from you on iTunes, or Stitcher or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Here is an example of a review that we got recently that might get your gears turning and you can leave whatever speaks to you over there. “So, so grateful for the @queertheology community, and the social justice lens @shannontlkearns and @thisisbgm meet the Bible with. It’s a gospel full of good news, and hope in troubled times. Most importantly, their interpretations of biblical text not only leave any one out, but preach the belief that we are all in this together. They’ve helped me find a God I can believe in.” Every now and then, we get some reviews that are from anti-LGBTQ Christians that leave us 1-star reviews. So by going on there and leaving a good review or a thoughtful, honest review what you experience in this podcast, will help the algorithm and also help folks that may be considering listening to this podcast get a sense of what they can expect here. So if you can leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts: iTunes, Stitcher, wherever it is, that would be super helpful. FS: One of the things that we’re interested in doing more of in the podcast that we’re starting with today is: tackling some listener/reader emails. We get lots of people that write in and ask questions. Sometimes that are really specific to their own experience, but also sometimes, that while specific to their experience highlight things that I think a lot of us have dealt with or are dealing with. So we got this email, we’re going to read parts of it and tackle the questions that are in it. Lately, my mom has been asking me about my sexuality/gender. The last time I tried to come out to her, she said people like me were causing all the world’s problems, I was going to hell, I had turned my back on God, etc. Maybe I’m too sensitive, I don’t know. But my religion is very important to me, and being told I wasn’t good enough made me feel so terrible about who I was. Now that she is asking, I have been lying. I feel terrible for lying, because I was taught not to. But I want to be able to get through high school and then be independent, and go to college and become a pastor.  But I need to know if I ought to stop lying. Please, can someone tell me how to handle this? B: So we responded to this directly, but also thought that this might apply to some of the folks listening, whether you’re in this specific situation or can understand or have a similar experience in your life. There are really two questions that this person is asking.    Do I have to come out?   Is it okay that I’m lying?     I think the TLDR is no and yes. So we will dive into that a little bit more right now.  Coming out, I think understandably, has a prominent place in LGBTQ culture. There’s something really liberating about coming out. It makes finding other queer folks easier: you can find community, and in being around queer folks, and openly expressing your queerness. You are able to find yourself in a new and beautiful way. My hope is that for everyone who wants to come out is able to come out. Also, sometimes there are very practical reasons why coming out just doesn’t make sense, maybe ever or right now. That could be because you are a minor and you’re parents could punish you, could send you away to a boarding school in another state, could send you to live with relatives, could force you to go to therapy. If you are an adult but are dependent upon them financially either for college or you’re unemployed and you are living with them and they might cut off their financial assistance to you. So all those reasons are reasons why coming out might not be right for you, right now. If you are a trans person who has come out and transitioned and is now living a life that feels authentic in the gender that feels authentic. You might just not want to be seen as trans, but want to be seen as the gender that you truly are. So that’s another reason why you might stop coming out. That is my thought on if you have to come out. I think the answer is, it can be this really great thing, but not something that you should feel forced or pressured to do if you’re not ready or it’s unsafe for you.  What about you Shay, what do you think? FS: You know, I think coming out is really important, from my own experience it wasn’t until I was able to come out that I was really able to unpack a lot of things and move towards health. Also, one of the reasons why I waited so long to come out was because it wasn’t safe for me to do so. That I was living with family, I was financially dependent on them, and they were not affirming. So you have to measure always, your own safety with the situation that you are in and make sure that when you’re ready to come out, whatever that looks like, that you are doing so because you feel confident, because you feel ready, because you’re prepared, because you’ve got a plan in place. All of those different things. And it sucks to have to say, have a plan in place, but that’s the reality of the world that a lot of us have lived in. So it’s just really important that we take care of ourselves. I think that to me also, is my answer to this question: Is it ok that I’m lying? I think sometimes we have to do things in order to protect ourselves and if that means that when your mom asks you a direct question, you lie.  Is that a bad thing? I don’t know. Maybe? But it’s also a necessary thing, right? B: And it’s bad that the badness also comes from your mother’s potential reaction to that and the shame, or the abuse, or the misunderstanding, or the judgment that would come from her. If there’s a division there, she’s creating it just as much, or even more so than you are. FS: Right! For sure! I think that the reality is that if she’s asking those questions in order to pick a fight, right? That’s also part of the problem.  B: Right! FS: This is not a question that’s being asked with equal footing or with real intent for connection. I think sometimes we have to do, as queer folks, as marginalized folks we do whatever we need to do to get through the day, so long as it’s not hurting anyone else. Sometimes that means lying to protect ourselves, sometimes that means cutting ties with family members when we can, sometimes that means setting really hard boundaries, and all of that stuff. I think it’s really important that we let ourselves off the hook and are gentle with ourselves for the things that we need to do to survive and get through. B: Yeah, you and I both know first hand the pain, and drama, and struggle that comes from families that are not accepting of us. And so we packaged all of our years of angst and experience navigating all of that into some resources around Navigating Self Care Around Unaffirming Family. Specifically for LGBTQ Christians, we put together this three-part video series that also has some workbooks that go along with it to help you just take better care of yourself. Wherever you are, if you have family, or friends, or part of a church community that doesn’t fully accept you, this mini video series will help you figure out how you’re feeling, how you want to be feeling, get started on setting boundaries and give you some really practical tactics to just take better care of yourself. So you can get that for free at queertheology.com/selfcare. So as we look to December, advent is coming up, Christmas is coming up. As we’ve said, we’ve been doing this Patreon push to get some additional funding and to make this work more sustainable. So we’re going to sort of be taking a break from the podcast for December to regroup and get ready for the New Year. But we won’t be going away, don’t worry. Shay has gone through and picked out some of our most popular and most favorite advent December themed episodes back from our archives. So unless you’ve been listening to that podcast every week for the past six years and have an audio graphic memory, these will likely be new to you. Even though they are technically some vintage episodes. So that’s what’s coming over the next few weeks, into the New Year. Then, behind the scenes, we’re going to be working on making the site easier to navigate. We’ve heard from you that when you do find stuff, it’s been super helpful but it’s not always the easiest to find what you’re looking for. I think that’s because we started six years ago with just a one-page website and we’ve just been adding and adding resources over the years. It’s this amazing collection of resources now, but also maybe a little bit unruly. So we’re going to try and take December to tame that beast. FS: Yes! So we are super excited to revisit some of these episodes with you. We hope that they help you to have a blessed Advent and prepare for your Christmas season. Also, give us a little time to breathe and to break. So we are super grateful to be in community with you. We’re so grateful for all of the ways that you have supported us so far, and continue to support us. We can’t wait to dive back into the lectionary with you in the New Year.  B: See you next week! [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: Do I need to come out? Is it okay to just lie? Living within and feeling safe in an unaffirming family Resource: Navigating around unaffirming families here Podcast plans for the holidays Website revamp We had such a great time doing interviews of some Sanctuary Collective members and we’d like to continue doing this. We want to even extend these interviews and bring in more and more guests. Aside from these podcasts, we want to continue providing informative and helpful content that is vital to a lot of queer folks. We are so excited to do so many things next year: launch more courses and resources, do longer podcasts, and publish informative articles. BUT we definitely need your help. If in any way, these resources have been helpful to you, we would appreciate it if you visit and support us over at patreon.com/queertheology. Photo by Ben White The post Is it ok to lie? + Winter Is Coming appeared first on Queer Theology.

Today’s episode features one of the Sanctuary Collectives’ most active and loved member, Caryn Saxon. Brian and Caryn explore the intersections of queerness, singleness, and Quakerism. As 2019 draws to a close, we need your help to keep the podcast going into the new year. We’d love to produce longer episode, bring on more guests, and produce multiple mini-series focused on things like activism, musicians, sex & relationships, and more  But to even keep the podcast going — let alone expand it — we need to be funded. We would appreciate it if you visit and support us over at patreon.com/queertheology. Today’s episode highlights: The importance and blessings of singleness in the LGBTQ Christian community Caryn’s queer and Quaker journey How singleness is different from celibacy and asexuality (and not necessarily “opposite” of polyamory) Caryn’s two favorite Bible verses that have deep meanings to Quakerism About our featured guest: Caryn Saxon Caryn Saxon is queer Quaker living in southwest Missouri, teaching Criminology undergraduates, and volunteering with criminal-justice involved adults. Caryn regularly volunteers in the local community in such ways as teaching a weekly domestic violence awareness class to jail inmates and serving on the Missouri Department of Corrections’ Restorative Justice Board. Caryn is a proud single, cisgender female who considers herself as queer and pansexual. John 15:12-14 This is my commandment: love each other just as I have loved you. No one has greater love than to give up one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I’m there with them. The post Finding God in Silence & Singleness, feat Caryn Saxon – John 15:12-14, Matthew 18:20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

It’s another exciting podcast as we feature another guest who has been a member of the Sanctuary Collective (since 2016!). This week, we have Brandon Beck who is an adult educator and trans student advocate from Central Texas. Listen on to hear about his journey and fight for a place to belong. We hope that you’ll enjoy these types of podcast episodes — we’d like to do even more interviews with listeners, as well as activists, musicians, parents, and more. If you do, and would want for us to continue doing this work. We would appreciate it if you visit and support us over at patreon.com/queertheology. Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast. We are super excited to be doing another guest episode. We’ve got a great guest on for our podcast today and we’re excited to be able to continue to be sharing these interviews and diving deeper with some of the people from our community. Thanks for being here today and Brian’s going to introduce our guest, and we’re going to get rolling. B: Yeah, I’m super excited to be featuring another guest, and as we said recently, we’re hoping to continue this trend of doing extended episodes and being able to bring on guests. That’s why we are in the midst of a Patreon campaign, so if the podcast has been meaningful to you, if you could support us at patreon.com/queertheology that will be super helpful. Hopefully we can do more of these in the New Year. But today, we are joined by Brandon Beck who is a long time member of Sanctuary Collective. He teaches adult education in Central Texas.  Brandon, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Brandon Beck: Thank you for having me, Brian and Shay. I’m glad to be here.  B: Awesome! To just get started, we will keep it simple. Can you share with us your pronouns and some of the identities that are important to you. BB: I use he/him pronouns although, I really am struggling with the idea of pronouns right now. So we will just go with he/him and leave it at that. Although that could be a much longer conversation as I’m sure you both know. I identify as a trans man and a queer person, and have affinities with poly communities although, I am celebate right now. B: Great! Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about, I know this is a big question so it might require a little bit of editing, but tell us a little bit about your faith journey as a queer and trans person? BB: I was raised by atheist parents, and so, clung very strongly to that atheist identity until well into my late 20s. In my late 20s, I came to religion as a salvation from drug and alcohol addiction. My drug and alcohol addiction stemmed from a mental illness that I have and I found that all of that wrapped up in my gender and sexuality, was just something that really wasn’t separate from faith, and spirituality, and religion. That having not allowed myself and opportunity to explore those things as a younger person was something that I needed to forgive myself for and make amends for, and move on from. I got into religion in my late 20s through Celebrate Recovery which is a Christian-faith based 12-step recovery program and found after I had done a lot of healing through that, that there wasn’t room in that program for me as a person with queer identity. So I took some time and developed my own ethic of care and my own theology around LGBT identity.  For a long time, thought that I wasn’t going to find a place with other people to celebrate that theology. Found Sanctuary Collective, Queer Theology and am now an active lay leader in my Episcopal church here locally. I have come to realize that there are other people in the world who share my beliefs about God, and faith, and the spiritual journey that I’ve been on. I’ve come to recognize that there’s a lot that the world of religion, spirituality, faith, shares with the LGBT experience, as I’ve lived it.  B: That’s really cool. Thank you for sharing all that with us. For a lot of LGBTQ Christian folks that we encounter with Queer Theology, it’s almost there are reverse experience that you had. Like growing up Christian, then coming into the queerness, and then sometimes leaving religion or shifting into something different. Whereas for you, you’ve started non-religious and then came into this Christian faith leader. How has that experience becoming a Christian leader in life as you’ve been working out gender-sexuality stuff shaped your experience as a queer Christian? BB: I think that one of the main impacts that’s had in my life is that opposite-ness for most people in my world. What I’m thinking about in that sense is that as I had already come out as queer and then became Christian, I found a lot of my queer friends pushing back against, and pushing me out because I was wanting to take on a Christian identity. I was embracing my Christian self. Then as I’ve progressed in my Christian faith, I’ve found different aspects and how to really work to see where my Christianity allows my queerness to be a full, integrated, authentic part of me. So that’s been interesting to see how the two fit together and where I’m able to be authentically both, and. FS: I love that. I think that’s such an important journey that we hear about that we don’t get to hear about very often, right? I think your narrative is really beautiful. I would love to hear from you, you talk about this piece of what places in your Christianity that your queerness can be in its fullness. I would love to hear you say more about that and what that means to you and what that looks like? BB: One thing that is important to me is that I have a place with community whether they are cishet community, or queer community or both cishet and queer community, that I can worship the way I feel that worship is best for me. Right now, that is Sunday liturgical service and I have been to so many of those places where when I walk in the door the white cishet upper socio-economic privilege is so daunting that I can not find my own worship groove. I am fortunate to have now found a place where I can get in to my groove and know that it’s okay for me to wear the gauges in my ears, and to wear an outfit where my tattoos are exposed, and to have my mohawk the way I want it. And to leave the worship service for coffee hour afterward, to talk about the latest queer politics or the queer fiction that I’m reading or to share a story about how during service, the scripture reminded me of an experience I had before transition and refer to that part of my life as “when I was a little girl” and not have anyone bat an eye. Really understand and embrace all of who I am. That’s an important part of my experience. That’s why I like where I am in this Christian space as a queer person. I also like that I am not the only queer person here. FS: Yeah, that’s huge.  B: So many LGBTQ folks, especially Christian folks can relate to the experience of being in a faith community or faith setting where their queerness isn’t fully accepted or affirmed or seen. You talking about this difference of being in those two different types of spaces reminds me of when I’ve been in really, really terrible jobs and then thought that it was normal, then left and got a new job. Then being like, I didn’t realize how unhappy I was or how toxic that was until I was really in this new space. I think that I see lots of LGBTQ Christians, wanting to out of really great intentions, wanting to stay in these unaffirming spaces because of all the good that comes out of it even though it’s mixed up with harm. I just wondered if you can share a little bit more about the emotional or spiritual freedom or breakthrough that came from being able to be in a space where you are able to have your tattoos, be able to talk about your transition, be able to talk about the queer fiction. What is that on a more visceral level? What does it mean to you? How do you experience that? BB: One of the things that best answers that question is that I am never reluctant to come to this campus. We have educational buildings, a workspace, a community space, and the sanctuary itself. This is the first place in my life that I have not ever been reluctant to come except for maybe my high school band hall. The reason why I’m not reluctant to come here is because every time I set foot on this campus, I know that there will be someone here also here because they feel this good when they get here. Because no matter what is going on outside of here, when I get here, I can let it go and be whoever I am. Everywhere else I go in my town, some part of me has to be cautiously managed because of safety. Here I can let go of that cautiousness and just be. I mentioned mental health earlier, even that mental health part, my mental illness, I can let go of having to wear that mask when I come here. And just let people know. Today I woke up and I can tell that it was a little bit more of a hypomanic kind of day and I wasn’t going to be able to function around close intimate relationships as well as I normally do. Because when I’m hypomanic I’m a little bit irritable with those close personal relationships and at home, in the grocery store, with people I work with, I have to really put on a mask and use emotion regulation to manage that kind of stuff. But I come here and say to people, “Hey you know, it’s one of those days!” and you all know that I have this condition and I’m just going to be who I am. And everybody here is okay with that. That’s the same thing as with my queerness and it feels so good to not have to bind stuff together. FS: Yeah, that’s really awesome.  BB: I have been following Queer Theology forever it feels like… B: Yeah! It feels like I’ve known you for a long time! BB: I’m not real good with temporal relationship, so I’m not sure how many years it has actually been. Someone told me to follow Queer Theology, I feel like it might have been my priests. He knew that Queer Theology was a passion of mine and he had heard you guys somewhere, or read an article that y’all had written, and suggested that I follow you guys. As soon as I did, I joined Sanctuary Collective. Initially, the interest for me was the writings that y’all had done, the Spit and Spirit. After that, it just became necessary because of the community and the leadership that you two provide. Having a sense of place to learn and grow in my inner section of queer identity and faith. FS: I know we share from a lot of folks in Sanctuary Collective that this is the only space that they can have that type of experience that you’re describing in your church. I would love to hear from you since you already have that in-person space, how does Sanctuary Collective and this online community space add into your spiritual life. What do you get out of Sanctuary Collective that maybe you are not getting in church or that is an added benefit if that makes sense? BB: I love Sanctuary Collective because there are more people closer to my age in Sanctuary Collective that there are in my real world. While I love the people that I interact with in my real life, and I do get a lot of benefit out of these interactions in my real life, I still value some same-age relationships also. I got some very valuable ones in Sanctuary Collective and I also really value some of the routine that is setup by Sanctuary Collective. The monthly creative prompt, the weekly discussion, question, the regular release of the podcast. Routine is very important to me and getting that from Sanctuary Collective is huge. B: Can you share a little bit about how your faith-life has grown and developed over the past few years, and how Queer Theology has been a part of that? BB: One way that my faith-life has grown significantly is in my ability to embrace uncertainty and to accept that there’s not just one way to look at things. And certainly that comes from the podcast and your takes on the lectionary readings. Also, that comes from the interaction with the different people on Sanctuary Collective. Somebody will present a story, or a problem, or a prayer requests and hearing all the different takes on what that might be like for someone else or what someone might do in that situation or what someone has done in that situation, has really changed the way I think about how we as queer Christians interact with the world. That’s been a huge area of growth for me. My entrée into Christianity was in a fundamentalist tradition and with my mental illness, took very quickly to one way is the right way and it’s taken me a while. But I’m really glad to say that especially with the help of Sanctuary Collective, have begun to expand and grow in the area of understanding that there are many ways and that our experiences, and our culture, and our traditions can help us gain different insights and find ways to support each other without saying “This is the way to do it!” FS: Love that. Thanks for sharing that. B: So Brandon, a few times, mentioned Sanctuary Collective and for those who don’t know, Sanctuary Collective is our online community and collection of more in-depth resources and some online classes about How to Read the Bible, How to Build a Faith that Fits, working through sexuality, and shame, and bodies and creativity. There’s all sorts of goodness in there. That comes as one of the perks for a Patreon. So if you’re interested in not only supporting the podcast and all the free stuff that we do, but diving deeper into your own faith journey. You can learn more about that at patreon.com/queertheology.  FS: I think we’re ready, maybe, to dive into our Bible passage. You picked a passage from Jonah that you wanted to talk about right? BB: Yes, yes. FS: Can you tell us a little bit about this passage and why it’s important to you? BB: I picked a passage from Jonah 2 and certainly the context from Jonah 2:1-7, even all the way through 9 helps set the stage for this. This is Jonah’s prayer while he’s inside the fish. Helps us really see why and where from Jonah is saying this prayer. But I have really been meditating on verses 5-7. Those passages for me has been speaking to this experience of being oppressed, self oppression, the LGBT experience as I’ve lived it, of not knowing how to get out of the way the world sees me as opposed to the way God sees me, and the way I want to be seen. Also, mental health and so that’s why I wanted to look at this passage. B: Great! So I will read it for us now, it is Jonah 2:5-7. I’m going to be reading from the Common English Bible. Here we go. Waters have grasped me to the point of death;           the deep surrounds me.   Seaweed is wrapped around my head           at the base of the undersea mountains.   I have sunk down to the underworld;           its bars held me with no end in sight.           But you brought me out of the pit.’   When my endurance was weakening,           I remembered the Lord,           and my prayer came to you,               to your holy temple. Okay, Brandon! Can you give us a queer good word about this text and what it means to you? BB: Yes. Like I said I’m thinking about the way oppressed people, especially the LGBT people, for me in my trans experience, and then also for me with my mental illness. I have this sunk down feeling and I think especially about my experience of being depressed before I transitioned and then also my depression with my mental illness and how this passage gives this sense to me that no matter what is holding me down that is worldly. That I am the one who can lift me up as long as I am doing it with God in mind. For so much of my life, I tried to do everything all on my own. I always ran my head up against the wall doing that. But when I combine my own strength with my faith journey, that’s when I began to be able to make changes. That’s where I’m going with this is saying yes, there is this dark depression that is clinical, that has held me down. But I have been able to through prayer, through a prayerful decision to take my medication, through a prayerful decision to stay in community with people who know and care, I have been able to mostly make progress and stay in a healthy place. Because before I transitioned, I had the same dark sinking feeling that nothing was going to go my way because no one saw who I truly was. But because I was able to take that and turn it, God was able to bring me out that pit of despair. I was able to say, “Listen, I really need this. How do I do it?” And then the right people came in to my life to show me what transition is, where the holy temple is, where the transition to body is. And that for me is a very nice message from this about how we, with God, whatever that looks like for us, can turn our lives from despair from joy. B: I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying and a lot of what this passage is offering as well. It reminds me that for a lot of LGBTQ people, we are worried that our sexuality or our gender or both, puts us on the opposite side of God. That God is going to judge us and punish us or send us to hell. What I love about this passage and what I hear you saying is that God is not on the other side, but God is on our side. God is coming alongside of us and helping us. It’s God who is saving us and not God who is condemning us. So I thought that it was a beautiful thing to pull out of this passage. BB: I love that take on that Brian. FS: I also love your thoughts on prayerfully taking your medication, right? I think that so often we get sold this message of, or at least I know I did growing up, if you’re just right with God you’ll be happy and not depressed. Sometimes the reality is being right with God is taking your medication, and being healthy and whole, and doing the things that are right for your mental health and your body. Which can also mean transitioning or doing those things. That’s health and wholeness, too. That is right relationship and I think that’s really beautiful. BB: Yes, yes. Thank you for saying that Shay. I think that that’s such an important thing. I agree, we don’t hear it enough and we certainly weren’t told it growing up. B: This is a little bit, not exactly about this passage, but you mentioned having some experience in the more fundamentalist type of Christianity and I know that folks listening have all sorts of different experiences with the BIble and how they relate to it. Can you share with us how your relationship to and experience of the Bible has shifted over the past many years that you’ve been on this journey? BB: When I first read the Bible in my, well, I mean I had experiences with the Bible even when I was an atheist, at that point I experienced the Bible as literature. Then I came to know the Bible as the inerrant word of God and as a literal text of things that had happened and will happen. Now, I understand the Bible as a collection of stories told and written by people in ancient times that are myths and metaphors that guide us in the way that we can live better lives closer to God today. B: Cool! Thank you for that. Thank you for being a part of the Queer Theology family and for being on this podcast in general. It’s been a real pleasure having you. FS: Yeah, it’s lovely everytime to see you in Sanctuary Collective. To be able to interact and to hang out. I’m so glad that we got to introduce more of your story and your goodness to the rest of the Queer Theology family. So thanks for taking the time to do this.  BB: Thank you so much, Brian and Shay. B: For the few at home listening, if this podcast and the work of Queer Theology has been meaningful to you in your life, we wouuld treasure your support on Patreon. You can go to patreon.com/queertheology and pledge a monthly support for as little as $2. It all goes towards helping make the podcast each week, and the transcripts, and the articles, and the videos, and all of this support that goes along with that. We’ve been talking a lot about Sanctuary Collective and that is our online community and collection of deeper resources and courses. That is available if you’re a Patreon supporter at the $19 level a month or up. All that again is at QueerTheology.com/patreon.  Thank you so much for your support and for listening, and your comments, and reviews and emails to us. It’s a pleasure having you join us every week and we will see you next week with another interview. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: What a faith journey of a trans and queer folk looks like How he fought (for a place to belong) and embraced Christianity while integrating his queerness Mental health is important, especially for queer folks His thoughts about Sanctuary Collective and how this has helped him in his personal journey About our featured guest: Brandon Beck Brandon teaches adult education in Central Texas and advocates trans students in Texas who face discrimination in school. As a Christian, his life is dedicated to finding ways to connect LGBTQ folks and the Christian community. He is also a member of polyamory communities. Brandon is the chair of the board of Transgender Education Network of Texas, VP of PFLAG San Marcos, a board member for GLSEN-Austin, and lastly, a community advisor to Transcend at Texas State.  Jonah 2:5-7 Waters have grasped me to the point of death; the deep surrounds me. Seaweed is wrapped around my head at the base of the undersea mountains. I have sunk down to the underworld; its bars held me with no end in sight. But you brought me out of the pit.’ When my endurance was weakening, I remembered the Lord, and my prayer came to you, to your holy temple. The post A Place to Belong feat Brandon Beck – Jonah 2:5-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

As a way to be more inclusive and expand these podcasts even more, we are going to feature conversations with Queer Theology podcast listeners. For the next couple of weeks, we will interview different folks and they will share with us their favorite Bible stories and their own journey. This week, we interviewed Indigo Rose who is a published poet, a teacher and an author. We hope that you’ll enjoy these types of podcast episodes — we’d like to do even more interviews with listeners, as well as activists, musicians, parents, and more. If you do, and would want for us to continue doing this work. We would appreciate it if you visit and support us over at patreon.com/queertheology. Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast! Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns  B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy. FS: Welcome back to the Queer Theology podcast. Last week was episode 300! Can you even believe it? B: I can hardly believe it.  FS: It was so great to celebrate with all of you. We talked a little bit about what the past six years has meant to us and where we are headed for the future. Just as a reminder, we launched an amazing Patreon, so that you can support this work and keep it moving into the future strongly. You can check that out at patreon.com/queertheology.  We talked about wanting to be able to feature more voices and so for the next couple of weeks, we are going to feature some interviews with folks that listen to the podcast, who wanted to share some of their favorite Bible stories, and also talk a little bit about what their journeys have been. So we are super excited to feature those for the next couple of weeks. B: Yup! First up is Indigo Rose and we chatted the other day about a bunch of things including two of her favorite Bible passages, we talked about sex and spirituality, we talked about navigating unaffirming family and spaces, we talked about loving across disagreements, and finding the divine in differences. It was a really great conversation and I’m looking forward to sharing that with you now. FS: Yes, so a little bit more about Indigo. Indigo Rose attended college in Pasadena CA. She now teaches in Pasadena CA after traveling around the country in different educational environments.  She is a published poet under a different name and can be found on Twitter @SinQueerlyRose. She has a book that can be found on Amazon called Careful with Her Memory.  She looks forward to a career as a mental health professional, teacher, poet, and author. [Interview starts] B: I’m so excited to be doing our first guest interview of this little series that we are doing right now. I am joined today with Indigo Rose. Indigo Rose: Hi! B: Thanks for being here Indigo. We met a month or so ago, and had been dreaming it out being this happening ever since. So it’s exciting to have you here today. For those of the folks listening at home who don’t know you yet, can you tell us your pronouns and some of the identities that are important to you? IR: Yeah, sure. So I’m Indigo Rose, my pronouns are she/her/hers and I identify as a bisexual, bipolar queer individual. That’s basically, my core identities are those things and I really relate to these things in good and sometimes negative ways. But it’s all really a part of who I am. B: Well, thank you for being here! IR: Yeah! B: So can you tell us just a little bit about your faith journey that has brought you from there to this moment. IR: Okay. I grew up without really a religious background. I grew up kind of agnostic: not really knowing which way was up, kind of deal. I ended up going to a Christian college just because I thought they would be like a good influence on me, and there would be good people, and I would be chill and happy. My freshman year was like hell on earth. I was really overweight, I was on 13 pills a day for my bipolar, and I was not in control of my body, mind, or spirit. I really didn’t find support in that group, so that was really hard. But as I started to study scripture through the classes that I had, I was, there’s Jesus. There they are! I really fell in love with Christ and just that tender, loving, beautiful, wonderful, complicated being that is Jesus. So as I fell in love with Christ, I began to be able to fall in love with people. Then I left college and I felt very disconnected from my faith. This is really random, but I think it’s important somehow: I didn’t have sex until I was 24. I described it before in some of my poetry and stuff, but my body felt like a dying bomb that was going to attack other people and destroy whatever is good inside of me. So I just didn’t explore that at all for a really long time. I moved to Nashville, did that whole scene, and then I had sex for the first time. It was amazing, great, really fun, really enjoyed it.  B: Wohoo!!! IR: Very sex-positive person! It was just [laughing] sorry my fiance is looking at me like “What’s happening?” I’m just giggly. I knew I was queer the whole time, I knew I had a desire for both genders or whatever gender is, whatever. I had a desire for different types of people. I really didn’t explore that until this place called Nature’s Classroom which you have a mug of Nature’s Classroom right there.  B: And I’m drinking some delicious hot chocolate out of it. IR: Nature’s Classroom was a really informative experience for who I am now. I was there for two years, for different seasons. It really changed my perspective because I wasn’t around Christians anymore who are so closed and conservative. I was around just people who weren’t trying to box themselves into religion and stay secured in it that sad, scary space just thinking God has to be one thing. You know? Then I went online [laughs], as you do. I went on OkCupid and found this lovely, wonderful person. I knew from “go”, I knew from seeing her picture that she was the person. My heart just dropped in such an insane way, because I was “Oh, this is literally it.” If she swipes right then this is gonna happen. So then she did! And it’s been a magical, wonderful, crazy, complicated experience ever since.  B: That’s lovely! We can chat more about finding our people online, so then we fast forward to a few months ago, Father Shay, my Queer Theology co-founder was in LA visiting and we were doing some work. So we had a QueerTheology.com meetup and met you and your fiance, Beatrice, for the first time. So how did you get connected to QueerTheology.com and the podcast? IR: Yeah! So I was, “Okay! I met the person. She has a vagina. What do I do?” I just felt very insecure about that. I’ve always been in love with Jesus and I wanted to reconcile that with the person of Christ, and with the scriptures, and with myself. I wanted to feel, not just feel, but know that I was not necessarily damned or anything, I don’t really care about that kind of stuff. It was just kind of silly to think about your life that way all the time. That would drive anyone insane. I wanted to know that God’s love was for me, too. And not in spite of my queerness, but because of my queerness. I don’t know, we just met and connected. I Googled QueerTheology and it happened. The first podcast I listened to by you guys was God Trusts You to Pick Your Partner. I was, “Okay, good!” I breathe the sigh of relief in my living room, and I was “Okay. Oh my God. That’s it. That’s what I needed to hear. That’s all I needed to hear and know.” There is a different perspective and it is truth. So, yeah! B: Cool! Glad that that message landed with you. IR: Yeah, totally! B: So when was that? IR: That was, Oh God! December, probably, of last year. Yeah. So December of two thousand gay-teen.  B: [Laughs] two thousand gay-teen! I love it! So have you continued looking into the podcast since then? What’s your relationship with them and the podcast since that first episode?  IR: We used to listen collectively a lot and just talk about it. We’ve fallen off of that. But I still listen to it pretty fuckin’ often – it’s great! I don’t feel like it’s queerness laid on top of something. I feel like it’s queerness incorporated and tangibly there already, and really just sucking it out for people to see it kind of deal. So I really appreciate that about the podcast. B: Yeah! So now I know that you got some passages that you’re jazzed to talk about, and to suck the queerness out that is already there. This is the queer Bible podcast so we can, even though we’re doing these interviews we love the Bible still, somehow. So we can’t let it go. We’re gonna read two passages, this week for the podcast. Then Indigo is going to give us a queer message about them.  So we’re gonna be reading Romans 1:24 – 2:8, so if you are a queer person and you’re familiar with Romans 1… IR: You’re welcome. This is gonna be great. B: Yeah! Just trust us to take you on… IR: Trust me, it’s gonna be okay. B: We’re going on a journey together. And then also, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31. So Indigo, can you read the Romans passage for us. IR: This is from the message. So God said, in effect, “If that’s what you want, that’s what you get.” It wasn’t long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because they traded the true God for a fake god, and worshiped the god they made instead of the God who made them—the God we bless, the God who blesses us. Oh, yes! Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. [That’s really important, and I’m gonna come back to that]. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches. Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. They made life hell on earth with their envy, wanton killing, bickering, and cheating. Look at them: mean-spirited, venomous, fork-tongued God-bashers. Bullies, swaggerers, insufferable windbags! [I love that!] They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. Stupid, slimy, cruel, cold-blooded. And it’s not as if they don’t know better. They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best! Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn’t so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you’ve done. You didn’t think, did you, that just by pointing your finger at others you would distract God from seeing all your misdoings and from coming down on you hard? Or did you think that because he’s such a nice God, he’d let you off the hook? Better think this one through from the beginning. God is kind, but he’s not soft. In kindness he takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life-change. You’re not getting by with anything. Every refusal and avoidance of God adds fuel to the fire. The day is coming when it’s going to blaze hot and high, God’s fiery and righteous judgment. Make no mistake: In the end you get what’s coming to you—Real Life for those who work on God’s side, but to those who insist on getting their own way and take the path of least resistance, Fire! B: Great! And I’m going to read 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 and this will be from the Common English Bible. And I love this passage also. Christ is just like the human body—a body is a unit and has many parts; and all the parts of the body are one body, even though there are many. We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body, whether Jew or Greek, or slave or free, and we all were given one Spirit to drink. Certainly the body isn’t one part but many. If the foot says, “I’m not part of the body because I’m not a hand,” does that mean it’s not part of the body? If the ear says, “I’m not part of the body because I’m not an eye,” does that mean it’s not part of the body? If the whole body were an eye, what would happen to the hearing? And if the whole body were an ear, what would happen to the sense of smell? But as it is, God has placed each one of the parts in the body just like he wanted. If all were one and the same body part, what would happen to the body? But as it is, there are many parts but one body. So the eye can’t say to the hand, “I don’t need you,” or in turn, the head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you.” Instead, the parts of the body that people think are the weakest are the most necessary. The parts of the body that we think are less honorable are the ones we honor the most. The private parts of our body that aren’t presentable are the ones that are given the most dignity. The parts of our body that are presentable don’t need this. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the part with less honor so that there won’t be division in the body and so the parts might have mutual concern for each other. If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part gets the glory, all the parts celebrate with it. You are the body of Christ and parts of each other. In the church, God has appointed first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, the ability to help others, leadership skills, different kinds of tongues. All aren’t apostles, are they? All aren’t prophets, are they? All aren’t teachers, are they? All don’t perform miracles, do they? All don’t have gifts of healing, do they? All don’t speak in different tongues, do they? All don’t interpret, do they? Use your ambition to try to get the greater gifts. And I’m going to show you an even better way. Okay, Indigo! IR: Yes! B: Pull out the juicy queerness for these passages for us. IR: So I feel like, in my experience, it’s been really interesting to see how the Bible can be translated, and how that doesn’t take away, so this is not written by a bunch of white men in seminary doesn’t mean that it’s not valid and still truth. I think God’s word speaks in different languages, different forms, different whatever. I feel that that was essential in my understanding of queerness and scripture was interpretation is really key, and interpretation is the way that we get to ourselves. We have to exegete we’re not doing the work of God well.  With this passage I see that, I often think of people, my future mother-in-law, who is very conversative. She has written us many letters about how she is very sad about our choice to be ourselves, and that kind of stuff. It’s really getting heard, but it’s also propelling me forward because if you’re doing that to me, I wonder how I can love you in spite of that and be like Christ. But also be not abused by that, you know? B: That tension is so important IR: It’s such a weird thing. Susan Rusell, the person who is marrying us, she has this great benediction that she says often which is “May you have the strength or the power to love, serve, and resist people.” And those are all a triangle, there are also not a mess right? So I feel like that’s really important when you are in community with people you disagree with who you are and who God has made you. It’s hard because they’re thinking that they are doing it out of love, and they think they’re doing it. They think Romans 1 is often a clobber passage for LGBT people, and it often seems like people aren’t really looking at Jesus. They aren’t really looking at what they did on earth or in heaven or any of that. They are just looking at, they’re reading scriptures literally in a way that’s not really helpful to anybody. So I think that’s really interesting to unpack that and be “Okay, what can we actually do to see each other for who we are?” Kind of deal. And I think these passages address that very well. B: As you mentioned, and I think everyone knows that Romans 1 is totally a passage that anti-queer people will say, “Look! This is why you shouldn’t be gay.” Right? It’s so wild to me because now when I read it, I’m like, You motherfuckers! This passage is about you! You’re the wrong ones and you’re going to burn in hell.  Before we started recording you were talking about sometimes there’s something holy about disagreement and finding God — disagreement as a way to help you find, point you towards truth. Can you share more about how do we not look at this passage from a defensive posture, but find something life giving in Romans 1, of all places. IR: Yeah, I know it’s crazy. Let me just open it up and let me dissect it for you a little bit. I think the one thing that I look up is the “all lust, no love”. That part of it really struck me very well in this interpretation in this passage because it addresses the fact that queerness in itself is not a sin. It’s always the intent behind what you’re doing. When he calls them insufferable windbags, and swaggerers, and bullies. This has nothing to do with queers this has to do with your actions and how you’re choosing to inhabit your body, inhabit your soul, inhabit your space, and your community. I fell that this has nothing to do with being queer, I think it really has to do with how the way people lose themselves to sin, and lose themselves to things that are actually sin. Love is love, and I know that’s really cheesy, but it’s totally true. I think, Christ shows up in the margins of that love and He shows up everywhere and in every situation, and take away that burden of seeing queerness as sin. We can live fully alive as God intended. B: You can identify as a Christian, a queer-Christian or an anti-gay Christian and still an insufferable windbag, right? Being a Christian, or not being queer, being queer is not… IR: Exactly. Yeah, or saying your Christian… or whatever. That’s not the point! B: That’s not the point! IR: It has nothing to do with that. I’m sorry. B: I love this, “all lust, no love” also stuck out to me because I’m someone who loves to have a lot of casual sex. I’ve found in that, that that can also be holy and sacred and that there can be, with someone whose name I don’t know, a lot of love, and care, and attention. There are people who are married, like monogamously, heterosexually married, and there’s abuse, and neglect, and violence happening in their sex lives. So, “all lust, no love” doesn’t mean committed, married sex, not casual sex. It is, what you were saying, beyond the surface, what is at the heart. IR: I had sex for the first stand on a one-night stand and I was just like, “I just wanna fuck someone and this is gonna be great.” We had sex for literally six to eight hours. I was, “Hey! This is great! I didn’t know why I didn’t do this before!” But I think for me, it was when I was ready and when I was secure with myself, and secure with who I was. I think that’s what we need to be secure with ourselves and where we are with God and with each other. Literally, the point of being alive is just being a whole person and trying to find that journey. B: My first time having queer sex was also a one-night stand, and I wrote a prayer for him… IR: Aw! I love that! B: …in a first Spit & Spirit for the Sex and Bodies issue, and then, so this was fourteen years ago. When I was in college, moved to New York, fast forward I moved back to LA, and I reconnected with him because he lives four blocks away from me now. So we met up a few weeks ago for the first time since then.  IR: Wow!!! That’s crazy! B: We talked about everything that has happened since. I was like, “I wrote a prayer about you.” He is not Christian, I read it for him and he cried, and he was, “Really amazing!” We’ve been Facebook friends ever since, but sat in the same room for the first time which is… I should’ve been video taping this.  Okay, that’s Romans. How does 1 Corinthians go together with this passage and what you want to highlight today. IR: I think that there is a real diversity in Christ body, obviously, and the ways we interpret who Christ is, but I feel there is that tension that can be positive if you let it be. Instead of it being a burden or this sad, discouraging: you’re gonna always dislike me because I’m queer or hate me inside of yourself because you think that’s what God wants you to do, kind of thing. But I think that it’s about not self-rejecting in a way, who God has made you to be. I feel like that within that, if the eyes are not part of the body, if you’re a queer person saying, “I’m not part of the body of Christ because I’m queer.” It’s really damaging and hard. I think we need to invent our own space within the body of Christ. I think that God is making room for that as we get more rights, and get more secure in what we are doing, and who we are in this community of the world, you know? So I think that’s really important and a really cool journey to be on. B: Yeah! So I know that for me, sometimes reading the Bible has felt like academic, philosophical exercise IR: Totally! Yeah! I studied Bible in college. I know, I’ve exegeted things, how to do the Greek, and the Hebrew, and blah blah blah. B: Yeah! It becomes, oh yeah, this is really exciting and inspiring you, or whatever, but it’s only alive in my head. How have you lived out these learnings from Romans and 1 Corinthians in your life? IR: Oh gosh! Just by being steady and patient with myself and other people. Knowing at the core of everything is God. To love another person is to see the face of God. I think that’s really important that’s going on our pamphlet for our wedding, our little liturgy. I think that if you open yourself up to that idea, you will change immediately and gradually, and I look forward to that change in people. I look forward to people staying the same too, and the way that they have been created, and that diversity is really important. Yeah, I don’t know, it’s been a journey and I’m still learning is the point. And I will always be changing, and learning, and growing. If I’m doing it right, I’ll be a totally different person in ten years, and ten years from that. It will all be because of Beatrice, my love, and also other people in my journey. You have to let in different types of perspectives in order to make you stronger. So yes! That’s really important. B: That’s a beautiful message for us start to wrap up with and so, as we’ve said recently, we just passed the 300th episode of this podcast which is wild. We turned six, earlier this year. So as we look to the future of the podcast, we want to bring in more voices like Indigo, bring you back in the podcast perhaps, do a series looking at musicians, and artists, and activists, and things like that. And also just keep this podcast going, it takes a lot of time, and energy, and money. So if this podcast is meaningful to you, we would love for your support, we’re doing a big push right now, you may go to patreon.com/queertheology, whether it’s $1, or $5, or $50. We will cherish your support and there’s some perks over there, so check that out. Before we go, I’m obsessed with poems as prayers, and as it turns out, Indigo is a published poet that has a poem here to close out our time together, so thank you so much for being on the show with us Indigo. Thank you at home for listening, and here is a prayer. IR: This is called Sins and Songs. My heart was designed to be destroyed, disintegrating beneath the acid tongue of past lives. Circling me like sharks. Only I’m in the water. Salt from my wounds, uncleaned, unseen. Then I see you sitting pretty on the beach. Mostly dead too, but also partially alive. In your particles, you lived before me, during me, after. The road is long, but the Christmas lights are off now and I must have you. Not must, but should. Not should, but could. If I’m blessed with the challenge of your silly, sweet head. The kind that comes from coming out. Only coming out could’ve brought you here my love. On the edges of your psyche with me in the middle of the God. Her divine love at the center swimming, singing, sins and songs. B: Blessings to you! IR: You too! B: Thank you. [outro music plays] B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.  FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram. B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Today’s episode highlights: Two of Indigo’s favorite Bible verses Her views on sex and spirituality The journey she took around unaffirming family Love and disagreements The divine in differences About our featured guest: Indigo Rose Indigo attended college in Pasadena CA. She now teaches in Pasadena CA after traveling around the country in different educational environments. She is a published poet under a different name and can be found on Twitter @SinQueerlyRose. She has a book that can be found on Amazon called Careful with Her Memory. She looks forward to a career as a mental health professional, teacher, poet, and author. The post Divine in the Differences, feat Indigo Rose – Romans 1:24 – 2:8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

300 episodes. We can hardly believe it. In this week’s episode, we reflect on the past 6 years of QueerTheology.com, what the LGBTQ Christian space was like back then, how it’s changed, and what we’re looking forward to in the future. We give a queer take on each of our favorite Bible passages (of course!). And we get vulnerable and share how we need some help from you. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Sticher, and Spotify Episode Transcript Brian: Welcome to the Queer Theology podcast!   Fr. Shay: Where each episode, we take a queer look at the week’s lectionary readings. We’re the co-founders of QueerTheology.com and the hosts for this podcast. I’m Father Shay Kearns    B: And I’m Brian G. Murphy.   OMG, you guys, gals, and non-binary pals. This is episode 300 of Queer Theology Podcast.   FS: 300!   B: Episode 300. Shay, can you even believe it?   FS: Cannot believe it. This is wild. 300 episodes. It’s been so much fun. It feels like we just started, and it also feels like we’ve been doing this forever.   BS: For our entire lives, yeah.   FS: Yes. It’s wonderful all around. So happy 300 to you, Brian, and to all of our listeners. We’re so grateful for all of your support over these many, many years. This is the sixth year of Queer Theology.   B: Happy episode 300 to you, as well. When we started this 300 episodes ago, you were like, let’s start a weekly Bible podcast. And podcasts were not nearly as popular, and also people weren’t doing seasons. So we just dove right into a weekly podcast, and it just kept on going and going and going.   We found out recently that this is the longest running LGBTQ Christian podcast, which is really cool and an honor. And so we’re going to talk about the Bible in this episode, but also we want to take some time to reflect on the past six years.   So Shay, what is this past six years meant to you?   FS: Yeah, it’s wild to think about what was happening in the LGBTQ Christian space six years ago.   B: Oh my God, I know.   FS: Right? Yeah, so six years, so 2013. And at that point when you and I came up with this idea to start this website and also the podcast: the podcast was one of the first things that we started along with the website, was this sense that there were only two things really happening. There was apologetics work, like looking at those seven clobber passages.   B: Yeah, is it okay to be LGBT? Sort of always defending yourself against these, like you were saying, seven passages. That people have been doing for decades, right?   FS: Always, always, always. So there was that work. And then there was like queer theology work that was happening in academia that was amazing and life giving and totally unaccessible to anyone.   B: Very dry, very dense.   FS: Yeah. And so we wanted to step into this space of like we believe that we can set aside the “is it okay?” conversation, like we’re done with that.   B: Spoiler alert.   FS: And we can create life-giving resources that are accessible to everyone. So when you look around now and you see all of these books, none of that existed six years ago. We were really the first people in that space to do this kind of accessible queer theology work. And it’s been so beautiful to watch it grow and to watch people find life in it.   B: It was lonely in the beginning.   FS: It was so lonely.   B: A lot of people didn’t get it, a lot of people thought that we were too far out there, that we needed to be more patient. There were no other sort of popular podcasts, or like you were saying, books or YouTube channels, and so we got a lot of flack for presenting this sort of bold, justice-oriented, queer and trans centered, body positive, sex positive, radically inclusive version of Christianity. And taking the text each week and giving it a queer take, and looking at the clobber passages, but from a completely different perspective, and finding our queerness in other parts of the Bible, like your sermon on Ezekiel and the dry bones, and your book on Doubting Thomas. It’s been cool, also, to see other people sort of like catch the fire and step up and start sort of offering their own perspectives doing this work as well. So it’s been really cool to watch this sort of the queer Christian space shift over, over time.   FS: Yeah, it’s amazing, right? That I would say our first three years were a lot of people telling us that we were moving too fast, that we weren’t being nice enough, that we really needed to have patience, and love, and concern for all of the people that were screaming that we were going to hell.   B: Yeah.   FS: And we were like, no, actually we’ve done that long enough. We’re going to do something different. And to watch now that that tide has turned. And I really think that we were on the front edge of turning that tide. And so I feel really grateful for my own stubbornness, and for your stubbornness, and for being stubborn with you. I think the two of us together were able to prop each other up when it got really hard. And there’s been a lot of really, really hard over the last six years in the midst of the really, really beautiful, right? It’s not easy to do this work, and to have been, I think, often so far out ahead of the rest of the folks that are doing this work. And really being the first to pave a way requires more energy and effort. And there’s been a cost, and it’s been tough, but it’s also been good. And now here we are at episode 300.   B: Oh my God, mind is blown. Yeah. But I’m like really proud of the past six years. I’m not sure that I’ve stuck with anything for six years other than my relationship with Peter. It’s been beautiful. And I really loved and appreciated the folks that I have met along the way through this work. People that listen to the podcast and then write in or follow us on Twitter, and we get to know each other virtually, or have come to meetups, or we met at conferences, or have joined Sanctuary Collective and we get to go deeper together.    It’s been really cool.    And some some folks are only with Queer Theology for a season, and they find their health and healing and hope, and they move on to other parts of their lives. And some folks have been with us and supporting us and a part of this community online for all six years, and so some amazing relationships have come out of it as well. And everyday we’re sort of meeting new folks and that’s been really cool. So yeah, I’m just really proud of the past six years and hopeful for the future.   FS: Yeah. Yeah, well I mean, this is a Bible podcast, so let’s dive into some Bible work today. We’re going to kind of take a break from the lectionary and instead each of us are going to share our favorite Bible passages. I’m going to try and think of one that is not Doubting Thomas, because I feel like I talk about that one all the time. So I’m going to pick a second favorite Bible passage.   But what about you, Brian? If you had to pick a favorite Bible passage, what is it and why?   B: I have so many. As you all might know and one that I’m going to talk about in depth is one that I’ve talked about before. I don’t know about on this podcast, but I made a video about it, so you all might have heard about it. But quickly first, one of my other favorites is from 1 Thessalonians 5:21.   “Test everything, hold fast to that which is good.”   As sort of what is resonating with me evolves over time, I like to really hold onto and remember this one. Because I remember being this queer closeted, high school teenager and trying to figure it out if it was okay to be queer, and where my place in the world and the church was, and somehow finding this Bible passage and being like, “Oh yeah, the questions are okay, the questions are good, the questions are biblical.” And whatever is good and right and true can stand up to that examination, and I don’t have to be afraid of that, and truth is on the other side. And so that has sort of guided me from coming out, to having sex, to being an activist, to doing this work. So that’s like one of my touchstones.   But the one that I want to share today is Matthew 7:15-20. And this is Jesus speaking, and I’m going to be reading from the Common English Bible.   “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you dressed like sheep, but inside they are vicious wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Do people get bunches of grapes from thorny weeds, or do they get figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and every rotten tree produces bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree can’t produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Therefore you will know them by their fruit.”   And I just love this passage because it cuts through so much of the bullshit that often surrounds discussions of queerness or sexuality, and Christianity and the Bible. And it’s like Jesus giving us this really clear rubric that is like: look at the results. What happens as the result? And I think that the results of non-affirming theology, their fruit is clear. It’s bad. It’s bad fruit pulled from thorny weeds, right? There’s like death, depression, suicidal ideation, attempted suicide, completed suicide, fracturing of families, loss of faith, just like really shitty stuff. And the fruits of affirming theology, I have said this before, testify to it’s like rightness, right? That flourishing comes, a return to wholeness comes, restoring of communities and families come, thriving of faith life.   And that also, it’s not just about is it okay to be LGBT? We can’t stop there. And I think that’s the work that we’re constantly trying to do is to keep the conversation moving, and that this rubric of looking at the fruits can also be applied to sort of any of the other theological work that we’re doing. So when we’re talking about transitioning, or trans bodies or the theology around that, or polyamory, when we say here’s where we find God, and we can see that goodness is there, then we can just know without having to, say, write a 25 page academic dissertation to prove why gay sex is good, or why polyamory is okay, or why transitioning is holy. Right? We can just look at our lives, and see, and know that God is there and that it’s holy. So I just love, love, love this passage.   What about you Shay?   FS: Yeah, I think a passage that I keep coming back to just over and over and over again is the story of Jacob wrestling with the angel in Genesis. And what I love so much about this passage is that it’s really grown with me throughout my own growing faith.   When I was in college and I was closeted and I was in a fundamentalist school and I was really starting to question my faith for the first time, this story of Jacob wrestling with the angel resonated with me, right? Because it was a sense of: it’s okay to question, it’s okay to wrestle. It’s okay to grapple.    B: Yeah, totally.   FS: And I think that I needed to hear that message at that time. And then as I’ve grown, I think what continues to resonate with me about that passage is still the wrestling and the grappling is still a thing. Right? I think we always continue to wrestle and grapple.   B: Oh, for sure.   FS: But also this sense of Jacob refusing to let go until the angel blesses him, I think it’s a really beautiful thing. And I think as someone who, like I mentioned before, can be a little stubborn.   B: Just a little bit.   FS: There’s a sense, though, of acknowledgement that sometimes we have to just hold on and demand the blessing. And I think as someone who has been in, is still in, a family who doesn’t accept me, has had to fight for a place in the church, has had to really fight for a place in theology in the Christian world, this sense of, no, this is my space too, and I’m going to hold on for the blessing, and I’m going to refuse to let go. I think that piece of that story continues to resonate.   And then obviously the fact that Jacob walks away with a new name resonates with me as a trans person, and as someone who has been deeply changed by my experience with God, and by my experience of this wrestling. And has also been wounded by it, right? That sense of Jacob walking away with a limp, that resonates. And to me, I think we’ve talked a lot on this podcast about what we love about doing it as being forced to re-encounter texts that we’ve heard all of our lives. And so what I love about this Jacob text is that it’s a text that continues to grow, and my understanding of it continues to change as I continue to grow and change.   And to me that’s so indicative of when you put in the work to really read scripture well, it grows and shifts and changes with you, and continues to hold meaning. That there isn’t just, this is what it means for all of time and for eternity. It’s like, this is what it means now, this is what it might mean in a couple of years. And I think that that’s beautiful and that’s heartening and it’s a good reminder to stay with the work and to continue to do it.   B: Yeah, for sure. I know sometimes folks write in and they’ll say, well, why didn’t you talk about this, or why didn’t you talk about that? And a certain type of Christianity says that there’s only one correct understanding or interpretation of any given passage, and once you’ve got it, you’ve got it, and that’s all you need. And what I love about this work and our understanding of faith, which I think is a historically very faithful way of approaching the text, is to say, no, we have to pick this apart and put it back together, and it’s going to say different things to different people in different times because our contexts are different, and that’s so beautiful.   And also, from the very beginning we’ve said there is so much more to Christianity and being an LGBTQ Christian than always defending ourselves against that which we are not. Like this passage in Genesis with Jacob is about trans people just as much as any other passage is about trans people. And it can also be about other types of people too. You can understand the text and in so, understand your community and the divine so much more fully when you bring your full queer or trans self to your faith. And I think that straight folks and cis folks have their lives and faith enriched by the presence and experience and wisdom of LGBTQ folks, right? Like queer theology isn’t only for queer people. It’s a blessing to the whole wide world.   So to our queer listeners out there: bring yourself.   FS: Yeah. I think as we’ve talked about what the past six years has meant, I think both you and I have this sense of we’re just getting started, right?   B: Yeah!   FS: There’s still so much work to be done. There’s still so much good news of queer theology to be spread to straight and cisgender folks, to churches all over the world. There’s still so much that resonates in these stories, and there’s still so much to unpack. And I love the fact that we get to continue to do this work, that because of our training and our experience, and frankly, the decades, even before the six years that we’ve been doing this work.   B: I feel so old, yeah.   FS: That we have a lot to bring to this, and that we continue to bring it. And I’m so excited about kind of building into the future. We have all of these amazing ideas to carry us forward, to change up the podcast, to continue to make this work more accessible to more people, and to continue to dive deeper. Right?   This has never been about getting people past the “it’s okay to be gay” hump and then leaving them there. It’s been about, all right, now that you know that it’s okay to be queer, or trans, or bi, ace, or whatever it is, how do your identities continue to inform? And not only inform, but deepen and enrich your faith, and make your relationship with God and your spiritual life even stronger and deeper and more profound? That’s the work that we want to continue doing with people.   B: Yeah, amen. “Is it okay?” Has always, in my mind, been the starting line of the conversation or the work and not the finish line.   So it’s been six years and we’ve been doing all this work. Why or in what ways is this work still needed in the world, and what does the future hold for you, do you think?   FS: Yeah. I mean, I think about that Walking Toward Resurrection ebook that I wrote about transness and the passion narrative, and how I wrote that thing 10 years ago, and now it’s still speaking to people and resonating today. And I think that there is even more work to be done, particularly around trans bodies and trans spirituality. I think that we have just scratched the surface on that, and I’m excited to dive into that work. And I think that the visibility that trans folks are receiving right now in some circles means that there’s a lot of work to be done, and especially a lot of work to be done with churches about how to make spaces not just affirming, but welcoming and inclusive and comfortable for trans and non-binary folks. And I think that we have a lot to add to that conversation, and there’s a lot of work and resources that churches need in order to do that work well.   B: Yeah. All of your work around trans spirituality, trans issues, trans theology, I just am so in awe of you. I remember before we started working together when I had just met you, you were more of an acquaintance, I was kind of a little bit of a fanboy over your trans theology. So it’s just been awesome. Now I get to work with you. It was a little intimidating at first. Because it’s just so brilliant, and I know that there’s so much more in you to share, and so I’m excited about that.   I am excited about, and I know this will probably not come as a surprise to anyone, but to continue diving into faithful sexuality and healthy relationships and exploring what that looks like for LGBTQ Christians and even straight cis Christians sort of in the modern millennia. We’ve been talking about Christianity and sex for literally years before it was cool, when it was even more dangerous. And I’ve got some more in me. I shared on Instagram a few days ago about I was back at my college for homecoming, and near the place that I had gay sex for the first time, and shared a little bit about that on our Instagram story. And then was remembering that I wrote a prayer for him and for that experience, a few years ago at this point, and so shared that as well. So it’s been cool to bring a faithful approach to sexuality, and I’m excited to do even more of that. I know I am constantly working up stuff in my head, in my journals, and I’m looking forward to sharing all of that with you all.   And also it’s the end of the year approaching, and it’s our 300th episode, and we’re at a little bit of a crossroads, and for the past six years have really just tried to make it work because we believe in this work so much. In the beginning, we were paying it for ourselves. We’ve got just the tiniest little bit of funding coming in that basically keeps the lights on and not much more than that. And so we need your help to keep this work going, and to keep the podcast up, and the articles on social media, and all of that. So we are relaunching or launching a campaign to raise some significant money on Patreon each month to keep this work going and to make it sustainable. And so Shay, can you share a little bit more about why we’re doing that and what all that is entailed?   FS: Yeah. Like you said, we’ve been doing this work for six years. Basically we figured out we were making like $2 an hour.   B: I think less than $2 an hour.   FS: Right. Less than $2 an hour just really cranking out new resources. And we want to be able to do more, but we also know that it’s important, both for our own mental health and sanity and lives, that this work be sustainable, but also in order to do all of the resources, the new stuff that we want to do, this work has to be sustainable. And so we have dreams about doing podcast mini series, about doing tons more interviews, about making the podcast longer, better quality, all of those things, about redesigning the website to make sure that all of the things that we’ve already created, you can actually find, and find when you need them. Because right now we understand that it’s a little bit wonky.   B: There’s just been so much and we keep adding to it.   FS: There’s been so much. We want to do live events, we want to meet you in person, we want to continue to create the resources that we know people are asking for. And so this ask for us, it’s a hard ask. I don’t think either of us like asking for money, or admitting that we need help. But the reality is that we do, that we can’t continue on like we have been for another six years, that we’re already feeling close to our limit and we want to be able to lean into this next six years filled with joy, and health, and from a really solid grounding. And so we’re launching a Patreon that will allow you all to step up and support this work, and we’ll create a base from which we can create new resources.   So you can check that out at patreon.com/queertheology. You can read more about why we’re doing this now, what we’re asking for, what our dreams are for the future. But we hope that you will join in with us to make sure that we can produce another 300 episodes of the podcast.   B: Yeah. I’m just really excited about this sort of moment in the evolution of Queer Theology and the LGBTQ Christian space. And you know, I think we both try and, I think, make this work look easy because we’re proud of it, and we’re excited to be a part of it, and we are happy to do it. It feels like a spiritual calling in alignment with our skills and our experience. And we don’t ever, I’m at least very self conscious about like I don’t want to ever complain or take things for granted, and also it takes an incredible amount of time and energy. I think we’re probably each working at least 20 hours, if not 40 hours a week, just on Queer Theology in addition to our other jobs to keep the lights on and pay the bills in our own lives.   And so we want to keep doing this work, and do it well, and do it more. And like you were saying, Shay, to include more of you all, to do interviews with you, to feature other voices, and these series to come in person to do stuff. And so I would be so thankful for your support in this.   If the podcast or the videos or the emails have have made an impact in your life, I would really just feel so good about that support. And if you can’t give, or in addition to giving, sharing our Patreon, sharing our work with your friends, maybe even asking the straight folks in your life to donate in your honor, or sharing it with your church.    Get creative.    Anything that you can do would really, really be helpful. We would love to go into the new year feeling we’ve got a strong base to do this work from. So again, that’s patreon.com/queertheology.   There’s a few levels of perks, but mostly we were trying to keep the focus on the work and on engaging with you. We would love to chat more with you, so connect with us on Patreon. And happy 300 episodes!   FS: Happy 300 episodes. And here’s to the next 300.   Thank you all for supporting us and for continuing to be our community. We just feel really lucky to get to do this work, and really honored for the trust that you’ve placed in us. And we want to be worthy of that trust and continue to create resources that help all of us live healthy and whole spiritual lives.   B: And we’ll talk to you next week.   [outro music plays]   B: The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at QueerTheology.com which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.    FS: To dive into more of the action, visit us at QueerTheology.com. You can also connect with us online: on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, and Instagram.   B: We’ll see you next week. Download the transcript (PDF) Every day we get messages from LGBTQ people and the parents and pastors of LGBTQ people. From listeners and readers in over 200 countries. Each one of these messages is a blessing and a responsibility. They are daily reminders of why we started this work: to connect our head and our heart, to spread the gospel message of justice and freedom, and to live into God’s abundant love for us. We love being on this journey with you. We believe that this work is a calling. But we also believe that in order to do it well and for the long haul we need your help. We’re at a critical moment in that journey, though, and we need your help. This work that has touched and transformed so many lives is not sustainable. We need your help. Learn more at patreon.com/queertheology The post #300: LGBTQ Christian Progress – Matthew 7, Genesis 32:22-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.