Sketchnote Army Podcast

Eric Bakey shares how his passion for visual thinking got him promoted from building bridges under rocket attack to working as an elevator apprentice, general superintendent, and construction executive. Hear how this experience helps him solve business blind spots for organizations that he cares more about.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts, a perfect tool for sketchnoting, available on iOS, Windows, and Android.Concepts' vector-based drawing feature gives you the power to adjust your drawings — any time you like. You can nudge the curve of a line, swap out one brush for another, or change stroke thickness and color at any stage of your drawing — saving hours and hours of rework.Vectors provide clean, crisp, high-resolution output for your sketchnotes at any size you need — large or small. Never worry about fuzzy sketchnotes again.Concepts is a powerful, flexible tool that’s ideal for sketchnoting.SEARCH “Concepts” in your favorite app store to give it a try.Running OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Eric?Origin StoryEric’s current workSponsor: ConceptsTipsToolsWhere to find EricOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Eric on InstragramEric on LinkedInEric's websiteGoogleToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sharpie markerCardboard boxCrayonsButcher paperFlip chartNeulandReplaceable nibsFountain pensFeud tipsPost-it-notesWhite boardGoogle DocsProcreateConceptsNotabilityTipsWhat problem are you trying to solve, who is it for, and what is the value of solving that problem?Where are you right now and where do you want to go?Be useful, resourceful, and knowing your five-mile famous world.CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerShownotes and transcripts: Esther OdoroSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!Episode TranscriptMike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's great to have you, and I've got Eric Bakey on the line. Eric, it's so good to have you. Thanks for coming on the show.Erick Bakey: I appreciate you having me. Longtime listener, first-time caller. So, I'm really excited.MR: And I'm excited to have you. We had a little chat just before the end of the year and immediately thought that you'd be great for the podcast to share your story and your perspective. So, let's get that started. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.EB: It has evolved. I'm an entrepreneur. If I'm at the bar, I would just tell someone I doodle for dollars. That gets a rise outta most people, but in a very real sense, I try to solve business blind spots. That feels right when I say it. I've had to go through a few different iterations of how you show up as an illustrator, which is not quite that. Not quite a cartoonist, not quite a whiteboard wizard, or whatever else you wanna call yourself. But that one fits right now.MR: Nice. Nice. Let's jump right into your origin story. I know a little bit about it, but I wanna let you take your time and tell us, maybe start from when you're a kid. Did you draw since when you were a little kid, and did that maintain itself through your life or did it come later in life? How did all that work out and to get to the place where you are now?EB: Yeah. I was drawn to the arts and I drew cartoons when I was a kid, and I actually won some scholastic awards in high school to go to art school, but I was too much of a tough guy. I just wasn't prepared to go take my art seriously. And so, I joined the Army right after high school and got to do the tough guy thing. Learned to blow stuff up, and more importantly, build bridges.When I got out, pun intended, I came up in the elevator industry and I went from stack and steel and spinning wrenches an elevator apprentice and worked my way up to become a general superintendent and construction executive. Really, it was the application of visual thinking that really helped me exceed in these kinds of things.I've brushed over about 12 years' worth my life there in a couple of sentences, but really, it was trying to understand the complexities of what an owner's intention was, what an architect's plan for making the thing beautiful, how an engineer makes the thing actually work, and then getting 80 different contractors to get on the same exact page and try to put the job in on time.I just used the tools that were available to me, which were a sharpie and a cardboard box, and just wheeled this thing into existence by getting everybody literally on the same page because everyone has their own competing priorities when it comes to a project.I used what tools were available, and that happened to be this thing called visual thinking. In hindsight, I wish I would've put a little bit more attention to that ability when I was going into my day job. It probably would've saved me a lot of stress. But, yeah, that's kinda the origin story.MR: Wow. Here's an interesting question because you came up from the bottom, being an apprentice and seeing everything from that perspective, you think that helped you when you came to the point of being this, I guess, a facilitator, I guess is probably the right way to call it, right? You're a facilitator using visual tools to try to get everybody organized and on the same page some ways, like a project manager, I guess, you might even say.Do you think, coming up from the bottom and working up that way gave you good perspective for all those other roles because you would've had to understand all those roles to really make them almost like interpret one to the other, right? Like the architect to the engineer because they might talk past each other. Is that a fair way to guess how that might have been?EB: Absolutely. It was through hard work and going from not knowing anything about anything and just struggling at every face going up. I hated at the time. I hated my job at every face of that experience 'cause there's always problems. But it was just a commitment to craftsmanship and then ultimately, the respect of the guys when I'm in charge.We all made fun of the guys who came straight outta college and started telling these 55-year-old mechanics how to build an elevator. They don't even know to do anything. The same thing, when I actually got on the office side of things, being able to speak from the perspective of the guys but on a more elevated business-like fashion and being able to—just the proper frame based on true experience rather than hypothetical book knowledge. I mean, it's just like street smarts versus taking a class.Fortunately, I've been able to do both, and absolutely, it was just a commitment to craftsmanship and trading cartooning as an honest trade. That's really how I came to this and leaning into it to say, "Okay, I'm not where I want to be yet, now that I've transitioned into this visual thinking world. I want to go there, but I'm not there yet. So what can I do now with the skills and abilities resources? I've got to be a good steward of these resources and solve the problems that are around me with these things to get me to where I'm trying to go in that general direction of what I think visual thinking should be. "MR: Another interesting question. Because you came from this perspective, you obviously had the respect of the guys who did the work. How did management react to you when you came to them? Do you think you had an interesting, where you are this in-between mediator that could speak the talk and yet speak their talk as well?EB: It's hard to be a legend in your own land. Fortunately, I got recruited from the field, I went to the office, I went to the competition. I could not get to the office level from the field place I was at. I had to take the next step of the ladder in a different company so that they would appreciate my knowledge. 'Cause I was just the irreverent kid, elevator mechanic at the one company that, yeah, sure, he does a good job, but he's an elevator mechanic.Those skills were celebrated by the competition, and it was a big opportunity. I wanted to overachieve and bring everything I could from the field but then apply in a new context in the office. It was appreciated at the new company.MR: Interesting. Almost like the place that where you got to a certain point where you outgrew it, and the only way to make the next step would be to leave it behind where nobody has any kind of preconceived ideas of who you are so you could start over again.EB: Maybe that was my own limited ability, but it's like the grass is always greener anyway. There's always ways, even now that I wish I could have transitioned things a little bit smoother, but, for me, it's always been, "All right, well, this is the new thing I'm doing. I'm going here and I'm gonna kick butt and it is what it is."MR: Interesting. Do you find that that's been the true for your process? Obviously, in each one of these, you had to burn it down and start over again. Are you finding this is a trend in your life for you to go to the next level? Has that been true for you?EB: Whether it's wisdom or fatigue, I'm doing less burning of bridges or anything like that. Distilling down with the truth and principles really are to get to where I'm trying to go has been more important. I think I was driven a lot by ego in the beginning. I wanted to go be the tough guy, army guy. I wanted to go be this pipe-swinging elevator guy. I wanted to go be the boss.Then as I started achieving these levels I was essentially climbing ladders, leaned up against the wrong building. I didn't think before actually building a career. If I would've had some visual thinking skills to really plan this thing out a little bit better, especially as I get to mentor some people now as employees and whatnot.It's like when I see that spark in somebody, instead of letting them go all these different directions, I try to channel it towards, "Hey, what are you really trying to accomplish?" I see there's a whole lot of activity, but what are we really trying to accomplish here? And try to channel them towards the best direction and just trying to be the friend or leader that I wish I would've had as I was coming up.MR: That's great. That's great. What kind of work are you doing these days? Are you still in the construction business? Where are you working?EB: I'm no longer in the construction world per se. I do a little bit of real estate development work, which is similar but different. It's before the construction actually even happens. I would argue it's much more lucrative to stay on that side of things. Also, I just got hired by Boeing, the big aerospace engine conglomerate. I'm really excited about that opportunity.I was kind of the wild, wild west of freelancing, whoever would hire me as a visual facilitator of how you show up as a marketer or a sales strategist or all kinds of different ways that you can use these skills. But I saw a real weakness that I had that I want to solve bigger problems and I want to be with a team executing upon worldwide. I just wanna have a bigger impact with these things.I feel like I have these really cool skills that are Ferrari skills for a small little consulting gig. But always, I want to go bigger and deeper with these people and it's hard to do that internally in a small business. I figured I'd go jump in the deep ocean where I'd have a team and ultimately also get mentoring from somebody I really respect.MR: Got it.EB: It is the same thing of—the ego thing is starting to fall past that. I wanted to be this irreverent entrepreneur, but what kind of problems do I really want? Like, oh, I can get, have a much bigger impact with over here, and I have these weaknesses that aren't gonna be used against me. They're actually gonna be strengthened by someone who I actually trust to help identify them. I'm really excited about the big opportunity that I've got going on now.MR: Give me an example. Let's say you're working with a—now you're internally, so let's say you're at Boeing someplace, just make a theoretical situation. You've got a problem that you're facing. You've got your team, you've got all of Boeing or some section of Boeing. How would you approach that? What kind of stuff would you bring to the table and how do you use visual thinking in that context?EB: It really is very important to understand the situation before you try to solve the problem. Slowing down and asking the right questions, it's not about having the right answers, it's about asking questions and truly having a consultative Socratic approach of feeling, where's the pain? "It hurts on the left-hand side of your body here. Is it in your arm or is it more in your leg? Oh, oh it hurts right there."Like, "Right there, right there, right there, right there?" And really taking a frame of, okay, so how does that apply to visual thinking? Drawing it out, asking the questions, capturing the emotion. That's the power of studying cartooning. The extra squiggles that make a cartoon really pop, make it look like it's moving can speak and tell a story that's more true to life than reality itself.I love that ability, and I do it and I show it to somebody and it's like when I get that, when I see the pain in their eyes and they can laugh about it, then I really truly understand. And then it gives me the right to then, "Hey, could this possibly be a solution?" Again, you get that work done upfront before you start prescribing a solution. So, really, it's understanding and doing it visually so that I don't have to have all the answers.I don't have an aerospace engineering degree, and so I'm gonna go—they did a fantastic job of interviewing a whole lot of people and I felt very unqualified 'cause I have no aerospace engineering background whatsoever. But I guess it was just in the way that I approached problem-solving, and that's what I'm excited to work with their innovation team to do that and really understand the kind of problems that a big multi-billion-dollar international company has and solve them with some simple pictures. Sounds really exciting to me.MR: That sounds really cool. I've looked at some of your work and talked to you a little bit. My impression is that the visualizations you do are a means to an end. Your goal is not to produce an image. The image is a step towards solving a problem. So, it doesn't have to be beautiful. It could be, as you said, you drew it on cardboard with a sharpie. Like medium doesn't matter, quality doesn't matter as long as it's communicating those concepts.Talk a little bit about your perspective on the actual work and how you use it and at what point do you just not worry about it, it just becomes a step along the way, or maybe it does become like a map of some kinds that maybe a team would follow over a long period of time.EB: I'm very fortunate that I have put the work in to become a really good illustrator. I've been paid to illustrate, I can draw photos realistically. I can paint portraits, I can do this really cool thing, but so can everybody else and they can actually do a lot better than me. So, I'm like, "What can I do to compete in this industry, the talent level is just unbelievable what people are able to do."I just chose to solve problems that were bigger than just pretty pictures. In the beginning, I didn't wanna share things that weren't super pretty. Like, is that social media envy game of who can get more status and likes and whatever. I just started sharing stuff that I thought was meaningful for me. I've been very grateful that it has resonated with some people 'cause I get people comment and message me very often about how can I do this for them in their organization.It's just me scratching my own itch. The longer I took to make sure everything was picture perfect and drawn out just perfectly, I got no different people either get it, where they don't get it and they're just like, yeah, like why am I so worried about this? Nobody actually cares. No one cares at all. So, it's like they only care about what you could do for them.And once I realize that it's like, okay, so how do I get faster at this and how do I capture these and share these meaningful things that maybe I care about and I thought people would actually care about, and they don't. So, like, huh? It's just been just creating as many—that parable if you wanna create the perfect pot, you don't spend three months making one pot. You spend the next 90 days making 90 pots. I'm just trying to crank out 90 pots and then eventually I'll get the perfect one.And then what to what end? It's ultimately just trying to solve problems for organizations and people that I want to be around. To what end, it's simply to have—I call them visually valuable conversations. I wanna have conversations with meaningful people. That's the end. I happen to use analog tools, digital tools, all kinds of different tools. It just a medium. I could be a crayon a on butcher paper for all I care, as long as I get the kind of impact that I want out of it.MR: And that it communicates. You're connecting your communication between whoever you're working with or the people that you're working with, so you get on the same page. That seems really important as well. That's really fascinating and I think that's covers a little bit of what you're doing. If you're just starting, you're probably not even sure what you're gonna be up to at Boeing yet. That'll be real fun to follow and see, check in with you in the future and see what you're up to.I wanna shift into the tools that you like. You've talked a little bit about using crayons and butcher paper and sharpies and cardboard. Do you have like a go-to set of tools like pens or notebooks or paper or some materials that you like, that you typically will run with? Let's start with analog first and then shift to digital.EB: As I said, I started with just a cardboard box and a sharpie marker. That's effective when you're just quick and dirty in the field trying to just get a point across, explain something complicated to someone who doesn't get it, that checks the box. When I went pro, about 2016, I started doing this full-time and I bought this fancy flip chart all the Neulands and replaceable nibs.I love it and they're super cool and fountain pens and feud tips and like, all kinds of really sweet stuff. And then I let the tools get in the way of doing the real work. I spent all this time practicing my typography. It was fun to take the courses. There's so much stuff to learn. There's so much to this stuff. I have a whole huge bookMR: Your books.EB: I love. I'm a total nerd when it comes to visual thinking and tools and only having the best. But then I stopped being a little bit so precious about it once the pandemic happened and I'm like, "Well now it's like what problem am I really trying to do?" I was so concerned about making sure it was pretty and messing around with like the right tools and everything. It's great. It's hard to do good work with crappy tools, but only a poor craftsman blames his tools.It's just like this dichotomy of, what can you use to get the job done and what job is it that you're really trying to do. When it comes down to it, you can do this job with some post-it notes and a sketchbook or a whiteboard or whatever it is that you have around you. There are some really nice things. There are wonderful resources. But I try not to get too hung up in it 'cause I will nerd out on—like the 0.07 G2 is better than the 1.0, or vice versa. I can totally nerd out on it, but I try not—what am I really trying to accomplish here? So that'd be my only feedback is don't let the tools get in the way of a good job.MR: It does sound like you probably appreciate—my perspective is I like to have tools that I can go into any drug store anywhere in the world and buy. If I can get used to using those tools, I know I've always got a backup. If mine blows up, I can go to the Walgreens or the corner drug store in the UK or whatever and probably buy something that if it's not that thing or it's pretty close.Sounds like Pilot G2 would be one of those things. Do you have any favorite notebooks? I only use 3M post-it notes because the cheap ones tend to curl up and fall off the wall. That's a little tip there in case you're gonna use post-it notes, get good ones ‘cause it's worth the money.EB: I do not leave the house without a little pocket-sized back—my back left pocket at all times with a sharpie, with the fine tip and the regular tip on it and a big like a 0.9-millimeter mechanical pencil because they don't break. I will never leave the house without it because you should always have your tools, especially there's always time, little five-minute pockets time to practice or the things that pop in your head or whatever. I love to just capture these little tiny things and it's just something that it is impossible to forget for me when I write it down, which is why I started doing this anyway.And if I put the words with the visual, it will burn itself. It's like mental dynamite. It's in there for good if I take the time to draw it out, especially in an emotional moment. So, I just have it with me. I don't always pull it out every single day, but it's always there and it's just like, these are my tools and this is how I'm showing up. Those are analogs I gotta have.MR: Nice. Then I assume like the little notebook that you keep in your pocket set, like a field note notebook or something like that.EB: It's a super cheap one. You can get them in packs of 12. They're super cheap and they're just plain. There's no dots or anything on them. Again, just like an Amazon special, I've got super precious notebooks and like sketchbooks that I don't wanna screw 'em up with like, whatever. I bust them out for [unintelligible 00:22:09]. I'll really lean into it when I'm gonna do it, but when I'm just for an everyday carry, it's better to have something that you don't mind messing up and just getting used rather than never using it.MR: There is something to be said about something that's so inexpensive that if it gets screwed up, "Eh, I'll just recycle it and start a new one." It doesn't feel like you're hurting anything. Nothing precious has gone away. It got all bent up or got a little burned in the fire or whatever. Take pictures of the important stuff and recycle it and move on to the next one. There's something really freeing about that. You're not so tied to having to have a special book or something like that. So that's really interesting. What about digital tools?You can run an entire business now with Google Docs. It's just unbelievable what is available for free to be able to do this. I've used Procreate to illustrate a couple books now. I love it. Concepts is really cool. I'm probably gonna transition more to Concepts because I'm running these much bigger projects and gonna need that infinite canvas to be open at all times and continue.When it comes to actually doing consulting work and delivering these things, Notability is just unbelievable. Being able to have a really pretty PDF that's uploaded into it and then you can also draw on it. It's unbelievable the tools that you can get for like 10 bucks.MR: Right. I know.EB: It's just mind-boggling. Because I'm not as seasoned as you are, but I was not willing to pay for Adobe Creative Suite back in the day. It was just not even an option. I just got good at these inexpensive tools and they're just unbelievable how good they really are. The tools are smarter than me. I don't even use them for even a fraction of what their ability to do is, and I'm already just blown away by how useful they are.MR: I've seen that as well. The quality of the tools that we have available to us for the price that they cost, like Procreate and Concepts, and even I use Paper By WeTransfer like that's $12 a year. That's a drop in the bucket. I get value out of that within the first week that I use it, it's already paid for in my mind from the value it provides. Even some other tools that you can get are pretty reasonable as well.I think that's good. It democratizes accessibility to those tools where maybe in the past it was pretty limited. You had to really be in with the old Adobe suite, especially if you bought it. Couple hundred bucks, maybe a thousand bucks if you really needed lots of tools and suddenly you better make use of it 'cause you know, a lot of money. That's really fascinating.Well, thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your tools. Sounds like you're a pretty practical guy like me. Let's shift into tips now. The way I frame this is imagine there's somebody listening, they're a individual thinking, whatever that means to them, and they feel like they've reached a plateau for whatever reason.Maybe it's the beginning of the year, maybe it's just, tired out of something. Just they need a little bit of inspiration. What would be three things you would give them, three tips you would tell them? It could be practical, it can be theoretical things that you might say to encourage them to begin again or start the climb.EB: I'd say first, what problem are you really trying to solve? You're hung up on this thing, you are trying—what are you really trying to solve and who are you trying to solve it for? Are you trying to solve it for yourself? Because sketchnotes are a fantastic way to solve for yourself also get some gratification and edification from other people who think your work is cool.There's a whole community for people who just do sketchnotes. As someone who's gone through several apprenticeships, it's essential to get those basics down 100%. What are you trying to solve? If it's skills that you need to get, just do some sketchnotes and it's for yourself. If you're trying to solve for somebody else, okay, is this a graphic recording kind of question? Is this a visual facilitation kind of question? Then what is the value of solving that problem?For you, is it to just get past the mental block of that, "I'm not good enough to do this thing?" Well, yes you are. There's so many uses for visual thinking and how you can in increase your skills and share them with somebody else because the only way to get better at drawing is to push the ugliness out of your pencil on that piece of paper. There's no way—no matter how many books I read or courses I take, I continue to learn and continue to get better.People are so good at this stuff and even after people are tell me that, "Oh, you're so talented." Still, I'm never satisfied with how much further I could push this. The tip point number one is what problem are you trying to solve? Is it for you or for someone else? And what is the value of solving that problem? So, you get off your butt, actually solve it. You need consequences for it not being solved or a reward for solving it.What is the problem? Who's it for? What is the value of doing this work? You need to get that clear before you're gonna get past your funk. That'd be my first tip. Second is, so where are you right now and where do you want to go? As I said, if you want to build sketchnotes onto and become a professional with this thing, you can. There's also people who I would argue I'm a better illustrator, or arguably they've got incredible businesses doing this thing.It has very little to do with your physical skillset and more about who is the community that you're surrounding yourself with. If you're just trying to be, like just educate yourself on a specific topic. Maybe you're struggling with math or physics or something like that, and you can use visual thinking and sketchnoting to solve for that. Or there's tons of business and personal development advice out there. There's tons of podcasts that, to distill it down.It's a whole problem of itself, there's this proliferation of advice out there. It's too much of it. It's a massive fire hose. And people have made incredible Twitters and Instagram pages and made incredible illustrations and sketchnotes of just distilling down all the stuff. Maybe you'll also see that some of it is bull crap. Drawing it out and seeing, oh, this actually doesn't—that I see it in front of me, it sounded really good, but.That would be, so where are you now and where do you want to go with this? Do you wanna do this professionally? I have now I've got hired by this incredible company that's an aerospace defense company that's unbelievable. And I'm just someone who's like a reformed construction worker turned cartoonist. It'd be really hard to even put your finger on exactly how I got here. It's not something that I intentionally woke up and said, "I'm gonna do this thing." It was something that pulled on.Once I saw it, once I saw your work, I saw there was a whole community, how do I get better at this skill so that I can be undeniable that even that I can solve these problems and work for a company that is on a mission that I actually care about. Cool. My third and final one would just be to be useful, resourceful, and worth knowing in your five-mile famous world.It's not about being the best artist or even being the best listener. It's not being about being the best, it's being useful with the talents that you've been given, the resources that you've got. Resourceful people, use your resources and be useful to the people who are around you. And being worth knowing, I feel is a higher calling than being well known. That's really what I aspire to do. I guess I'm giving myself my own advice here, but that'd be my third tip.MR: That's great. Those are three great tips. I love all three. Thanks for sharing those with us. We're right at the end of the podcast if you can believe it. It just kind of flew by. It was so fun chatting with you. Tell us, what's the best place for people to find you if they wanna connect, if they wanna talk with you where would they go?EB: I post pretty regularly on both Instagram and LinkedIn, and they're under my name Eric Bakery, B-A-K-E-Y. I also have my own little website, Eric bakey.com. The whole online presence, I'm not hard to find if you just type me into Google, I'm sure you'll find me.MR: I hadn't thought about this until you said your name. Is there any kind of background in your family of being bakers? Is that in your history?EB: Funny thing on my mom's side, so not my dad's side, but the Bakey name, my mom's grandfather was a famous wedding cake baker in Philadelphia.MR: Really?EB: Well, my mom makes me a birthday cake where she makes wedding cake, birthday cake for me.MR: Wow.MR: I can't get it at the store. I gotta get my mom's fancy birthday cake stuff. I guess I'm kind of spoiled.MR: There is baking in your history somewhere.EB: There is. Yeah.MR: Interesting. That's pretty cool. Well, Eric, this has been so much fun chatting with you and having you share your experience and your story. Thanks so much for being on the show and thanks for the work that you're doing and how you're sharing and how you're being in the world. We so appreciate it.EB: I appreciate you. You're a huge inspiration. Thanks a lot, Mike.MR: Well, thank you. And for everyone listening to the show, it's another episode of the "Sketch Note Army Podcast." Till the next episode, we'll talk to you soon.

Visual practitioner Filippo "Sketchy" Buzzini shares how he is bartering his skills for other services and learning skills, growing his portfolio, and visiting new places at the same time. Sketchy is a firm believer in creating a broad comfort zone.Sponsored By ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts, a perfect tool for sketchnoting, available on iOS, Windows, and Android.Concepts' vector-based drawing feature gives you the power to adjust your drawings — any time you like. You can nudge the curve of a line, swap out one brush for another, or change stroke thickness and color at any stage of your drawing — saving hours and hours of rework.Vectors provide clean, crisp, high-resolution output for your sketchnotes at any size you need — large or small. Never worry about fuzzy sketchnotes again.Concepts is a powerful, flexible tool that’s ideal for sketchnoting.SEARCH “Concepts” in your favorite app store to give it a try.Running OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Filippo?Origin StoryFilippo’s current workTipsToolsWhere to find FilippoOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sketchy SolutionsFilippo on InstagramFilippo on FacebookFilippo on LinkedInDrawifyTanya Wehr - SE07/EP01The Sketchnote HandbookThe Graphic Facilitator's Guide: How to use your listening, thinking, and drawing skills to make meaning by Brandy AgerbeckMona EbdrupToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.NeulandOutliners with chisel and round tipNo.One Art BrushBigOne Art brushInk refillersFineOne Flex with flexible tipsGraphic WallyDrone CameraIPEVO cameraAcrylicOne markeriPad Pro 11”ProcreateConcepts AppPost-it NotesTipsBarter your services.Ask your colleagues, connect, share, and give.Prepare your title ahead.Use Post-it notes.CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerShownotes and transcripts: Esther OdoroSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!TranscriptEpisode TranscriptMike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike, and I'm here with Filippo "Sketchy" Buzzini. Tell me about the sketchy word, Filippo. I'm really curious, where did this come from as you tell us who you are and what you do?Filippo "Sketchy" Buzzini: Yes. Hello. Thank you, Mike. It's great to be here. The sketchy word, I guess because I'm a sketchy character. It comes from, my name is Filippo Buzzini. I'm a visual practitioner from Switzerland with my company, it's called Sketchy Solutions. Because I don't want to limit myself to one specific field, as long as I can draw it and help you find a solution to a problem, I'm happy to do it and give it a try. That's why Sketchy Solutions. The great thing of having a company of just one employee is that you can pick your own title. So I am the Chief Sketching Officer of Sketchy Solutions.MR: I saw that.FSB: I'm a visual practitioner from Switzerland. I live now in Bern, the capital city, but I grew up in the Italian-speaking part in Locano in the South of Switzerland. The warmer, sunnier, and palm tree, French part of Switzerland.MR: Ah, there we go.FSB: What do I do? Mostly, I do a lot of graphic recordings. But in general, like anything, as I said, any type of sketchy solution that we can think of. I do always more strategic visualizations. I give visual thinking workshops, and I do also some illustration work, design work. I've been drawing, for example, book covers or book illustrations. I've done some logos or t-shirt designs.I'm also one of the visual storytellers of Drawify. It's a project where for people that don't want to draw themselves, we're a group of visual storytellers from around the world that are drawing templates and connectors and icons that can be dragged and dropped on a blank canvas and adapted.Also, been developing some fonts as well lately because I'm very interested in lettering. That's also something that I've taught a little bit and I'm planning to teaching some more online. So yeah, I think in general, like for many things in my life, I need variety, I need change. I need to be challenged on as many levels as possible 'cause otherwise, I get bored.MR: You're quite the generalist then, I would say. It seems to me.FSB: Yes. Or I'm a multi-specialist.MR: Multi-Specialist. I like that even better than generalist. That's really great. And so, that leads me to my next question. How did you end up in this space? This is my favorite question of every podcast, 'cause I get to hear the stories of all these interesting characters in our space, visual thinkers. Let's start from when you were a little kid. I imagine when you were a little kid, you probably drew a lot, but maybe not. Tell us that story.FSB: I’ve always been drawing and I always had to occupy my time creatively. I think I've always been building things and creating little stories when playing with my Legos and Playmobils. Drawing was always something that I did it to, well, occupy my time or especially at school, when I was bored, I just took a pen and started doodling. Doodling on the page and filling a page. I had more drawings than notes on any given booklet or whatever that I had.I think in general, I grew up and I've always been a quick learner, but it also meant that I was getting bored pretty quickly of things. I always needed challenges in my life. I don't know, I think there's few things that always characterize me is that well, I think creativity. I always need to find a creative output, to be different, to do the things kind of my way.A great curiosity for everything. I get passionate about, really plenty of things and I wanna know more. If I like something, I never get enough of it. I just wanna get further. And adrenaline too is something that I constantly seek. I guess growing up then, yeah, I've been drawing for a while and then been interested in graffiti, in street art, doing a lot of it on paper.I always felt a bit different from the other people and not really fitting in. And I found a good outlet in punk music. Like really punk music where — but I think it was a catalyst as well to my creativity because there was something where you can bend the rules, where you can go your own way, where you don't need to be precise to do something. You just create. You know, just a few chords, a few emotion, and you just get it out.And I guess that's also what sparked my drawing that is like, I was never great a drawing class. I could not work exact portrait, but I always had the ideas on how to do things. I could do it simple. It could be, you know, as long as you have the right energy, you could DIY, you could do it yourself and you can just get going and no matter if you make mistakes.That's the thing, just like drawing, like punk music, everybody can do it. Everyone can do it. So, everybody can feel empowered and try new things. And I guess the creativity, adrenaline, and curiosity, it's something that accompany me as well.In other aspects of my life, for example, I really like action sports, like board sports. I do a lot of snowboarding. I do kite surfing, you know, or summer things, I go hiking a lot, and I'm just wowed by nature all the time. I keep getting inspiration from that. I'm very keen traveler as well. This as well, I guess goes on with the curiosity and the adrenaline.That's for the context. I left the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland for studies. I went to Frieburg in the French-speaking part. I have a master's degree in history of contemporary societies and geography.I think that also contributed to my visual thinking by giving me a framework on how to think, how to analyze information objectively, how to grasp the important topics, how to get to what is important and how can you summarize complex topics by keeping it to the core.And I guess that re-structure my thinking. That is why I kept drawing a lot because well, having a master's degree and every time I was bored in class, I was drawing. That means I've been on class desks for many years. For 20 years, there was like well, many, many hundreds of hours of drawing practice anytime I was bored.After that, I worked for an NGO that was empowering young people to make their sustainable project into life through workshop. Then I was facilitating workshops. There as well, I got an in into the non-formal type of education and different way of learning and teaching, and facilitating. I think that also helped. After that, I worked for the European mobility programs. I was responsible for Switzerland for youth information network.And there as well being at the service of young people. Always young people could come to me or my colleagues all over Europe and just ask information about starting working or volunteering abroad. And there as well would help me, I know always adapting the type of solution to the needs of the person asking.When my contract ran out with this job after three years, the second last week, there was a workshop, two hours workshop during our international meeting on visual thinking given by Tonja Wehr From Germany. And my mission there was like, okay, write down one project you're gonna work on in the future for this network and try to draw it. And because I was about to quit my job, I was drawing, okay, my mission is to find a job. And I drew that.Well, little did you know that actually, the job would've been the drawing that I was doing, looking for other jobs instead of the actual content. Well, the feedback was very positive from colleagues from all over Europe, and say, "Oh, you're good at that and stuff." Was like, "Maybe I should try it. Why looking for a job? Why don't I try to learn more about it, and the worst-case scenario I learn a new skill and among other things."Then I got my hands on your book, "The Sketchnote, Handbook," and it was a revelation like yours and then Brandy Agerbeck's, Graphic Facilitations Guide. They were eye-openers. And then I just started. My partner at the time was organizing an international conference and development corporation in the water sector. And she was like, "We cannot pay you, but why don't you come along and do some graphic recording just to see one, if you're able, and two, if you like it."MR: Good practice.FSB: Yeah. And that was, what was it? May 2017, my very first graphic recording.MR: Really? Wow.FSB: A couple of weeks before, I also took part on Mona Ebdrup From Denmark. She's used to study in Bern, and she was giving visual confidence training. And I really needed some confidence because already my first graphic recording booked up, but I didn't have a clue where to start. And it really, really helped me. Really giving me the confidence to just go out and try. In a very anarchistic way, I just said, "Just go on, just do it."And I wasn't satisfied at all about my results. Like, oh, they can be so much better, but people in the room were wowed. And I'm like, "Okay, yeah, there's something to that. There's something to that." Then in the meantime, I found another job and I said, "I need to reinvent myself." I took an internship in a development corporation organization where among the other things were organizing a conference in Australia, and I was like, yes, I take an internship, but I would also like to develop my visual thinking skills, so I'd love to do a graphic recording at the conference in Australia.I did that. One of my first full day graphic recording was actually in Queensland, was actually in Australia. Since then, well, after that internship was done, I already had several rough recording. I worked with three previous employers in the first six months. I was like, "Yeah, there's something into it."So decided in March 2018 to go all in and invest and starting doing visual thinking my full job. I had zero clients when I took this decision, I just love doing it. I know I could do it in all the language of Switzerland plus English, that means also all the language of the neighboring countries. I see that there was potential for growth. Since then, I don't know, it's been a rollercoaster that full of highlights that doesn't stop since.MR: But sort of fulfills your need for the adrenaline, right?FSB: Absolutely. Yeah.MR: The jumping in without—FSB: The recording, it gives me this adrenaline, this adrenal boost. Also, for the curiosity, it's always something new. It keeps changing. You cannot get bored. That's why it's my icky guy, I guess.MR: Nice, nice. I would guess, you know, for those wondering where the adrenaline comes from, the adrenaline comes from, this could all go wrong really easily, right? It could go bad. I think that's what, oddly enough, I've discovered in myself, like doing things that I never have done before.I'm not a thrill seeker. Like I'm not a snowboarder or kite surfer or anything, but there's something fun, a little bit like improv, right, when you go into a space and there's she possibility that anything could happen is really fun, right? Of course, you could crash and burn, and that might be fun for some people to watch, but that makes the success even sweeter, right?The possibility is you could crash and burn, and then actually, you deliver something. Like you said, the first one you did, you thought was terrible or wasn't good up to your spec, and yet everybody else in the room, because they don't practice that skill whatsoever. To them, it was amazing, right? So that's gotta be satisfying and I think draws you into more wanting to try stuff.FSB: Yeah, absolutely. I think also, just having an attitude of, it doesn't need to be perfect. You can make mistakes. And seeking the thrill, like, just the same way when I get to go puncture when I still go switch stage diving with 37-year-old, and I don't care. Maybe they don't catch you, but it's just about jumping. It's just about going for it. It's going for it.I see mistakes sometimes that I point out mistakes to my clients, maybe in some work that I do. But in general, it's just about going for it and having the confidence that you're doing your best. You're trying to help. You're trying to help and you're trying to provide a service and an added value to your client. Even a not your best work can be extremely helpful.MR: Yes. It can have value. Interesting. I have to tell you, my impression of Switzerland, I've only been there once, is that it's a very buttoned up, very conservative, very structured place. If you're in Switzerland and you're working, you must really stand out, Filippo. Is that a pretty good guess or am I misinterpreting Switzerland? Maybe Switzerland is different than I realize.FSB: Oh, no, no. Switzerland is definitely very buttoned up and let's say, well, boring or reliable.MR: Yes. Yeah, very reliable. The trains run on time in Switzerland.FSB: But yeah, I don't fit in. I guess I've got a bit of leeway, a bit of game, the fact that I'm from Italian-speaking part. We are considered Italians of Switzerland, even though the sports national team we support is not Italy, but still, we have a bit more of a laid-back way of facing work and life. And so, there's a little bit of game there, but even there, I don't really feel like I fit in myself. I get some jokers because of that.I'm selling myself, I'm selling not just my services. I'm selling, my business is me, is my person. So I need to be authentic. I always wear caps, and some clients might not be so—you might not feel so comfortable of wearing caps in between suits, but then I designed my own caps so that's kind of part of my uniform.For example, I went to the United Nations in Geneva, and I went past security, I had my shoes, like nice shoes and gel in my hair and I was wearing a tie and a jacket and whatever, but as soon as I passed security, I put on my hat and changed my shoes for Converse. And it's like, "Nope. No compromising on that."MR: That's great to hear that.FSB: That's my uniform.MR: Well, I think that sets you apart, right? When they say Sketchy, everybody knows who that is. They don't even have to say your real surname or your name at all. It's sketchy.FSB: I guess I don't know. Also, in my work, several colleagues have told me that they can recognize my work from—they can say, "Oh, okay, that's Sketchy. That's Filippo's work." Because I don't know, I guess there are some rules to follow, but I always like to bend them and adapt it to myself. I do not wanna do graphic recordings in the way, like the standard. Learning how to make the—like there are dozens of people doings that could be interchangeable.MR: Yeah, exactly.FSB: I think that my personality, the energy needs to come out in my work and I'm not really compromising on that. Lots of clients like it, some don't, but then I'm just not the right people for those that don't.MR: Yeah. Exactly. The right people find you. Tell me a little bit about something you've done recently that you're excited about. Could be work stuff, maybe it's something else.FSB: Well, what I've done recently that I'm pretty excited about, it's kind of work-related, but let's say I wasn't really paid for that, but I did some graphic recordings in Antarctica.MR: Really?FSB: Yeah. It was a dream of mine to set foot on the one continent I've never been on the seven Continents. I had a chance during one work event to meet some people from a company that offer cruises to Antarctica. And my goal was to reach out and say, "Hey guys, I can do a lot of things for you. Can we make a deal or something?" The graphic recording was not part of the deal, but I've got a very good offer, a pretty massive discount in exchange of some drawings that they can use for the marketing.And when I was there, I'm like, "Well, I have to do some graphic recording. You never know. Does anybody has ever done it?” There were all these presentations on glaciers and on Wales. And like that I was like, yeah, it will be a pity if I don't do it because I don't know if it's ever been done. It was just super great to combine—in general, I've reached a good satisfying level of work-life balance where my life supports my work and vice versa.I've become a big fan of bartering. I know we're in a privileged position in our job because we do something that people like and everybody can use it in some way. I'm always more doing, "Hey, what can I do for you and what can you do for me? And let's just exchange that." I'm going to Japan snowboarding in couple of weeks and I don't need to pay for accommodation because I've drawn the logo of this ski school where I'm staying.MR: Be creative, right?FSB: Or like, I'm not paying for coffee. I have a deal here with my best friend. I just get free coffee and then whenever they need something, some flyers for events, or the blackboard with the menu and stuff, I'll just do it. So, I guess that, yeah.That speaks to your open nature. I would say, you seem like a very open person to new experiences, right? So, when you do that kind of thing, you open yourself up. Like tomorrow, you might come in and they say, "Hey Filippo, we need a big poster for a party next week. Can you make that for us?" Like, "Yeah, go for it." Now you have a poster that you made, right? So, it goes into your catalog of number one, skills, but also number two, now you have a portfolio piece that says, "Yeah, I've done that before." And it just adds to your opportunity.I always thought of it that way whenever there was a problem or something to solve, I always felt like that was good. 'Cause every time I solve a problem, I now have something in my library to help solve the next problem that I don't know is coming. It becomes part of my solution set. And I think it feels like you've sort of approached it in a similar way.FSB: Yeah, absolutely. That's what I said before about the name of the company, Sketchy Solutions. Why? Because if you're an English speaker, it sounds like, "What the hell is that?" It doesn't sound positive, but it's literally what I do, it's sketchy solutions. And if a client ask me, "Oh, can you do that?" And it's something I've never done, usually, I go, "Yes." And then I'll figure out on the way to do it.I like to be open to learning new things, to be challenged to learning new things, and figuring out new ways of working. Of course, then to amplify my portfolio because also curiosity and the need to be constantly challenged and the stepping out of—I don't know if it's stepping out of the comfort zone is the right way. I was thinking about it some month ago, and I don't believe I'm somebody that is very comfortable stepping out of the comfort zone. But I just believe that I have a very broad comfort zone.MR: Interesting. That's an interesting way to think of it, like broadening your comfort zone. So, what maybe in the past was uncomfortable is now just, "I've done that before. We can do that."FSB: What's uncomfortable gives me adrenaline, makes me rush. Like even stress in the end. Adrenaline is stress. So, I'm like, okay, I'm stressing about that. It's good. It's good.MR: You turn that energy. I remember someone when I was first learning how to do public speaking, and his comment was, when you get butterflies, you're going up in front to speak in front of somebody. He's like, "That's good, Mike. That is energy. You're excited about what's coming. You need to turn it into a positive and then give it back to your audience." So, it's just energy, if you redirect it, it can be really powerful. Which it sounds like your motto and your mantra, I guess, that you follow.FSB: Yeah, no, absolutely. In general, I seek thrills in my private life and in my job. And they're intertwined.MR: Interesting. That's really great to hear. Let's do a little shift now. Let's talk a little bit about your favorite tools. We'll begin with analog and then go digital. Markers, paper, notebooks, pencils, I don't know, whatever stuff you like. And then jump into your, whatever you use digitally.FSB: So analog, I’m a huge Neuland fan. They have the whole lot. For a visual practitioner, you cannot hope for more. Everybody's super lovely. Also, the people, they have refillable markers. Sustainable. Say for graphic recording, typically I would have the No.One—No, the outliner, both the black outliner, both with Chisel and a round tip.Then a couple of other colors I know I'm gonna use with black, I always have the No.One, both Art, so brush, tip and chisel, and the big one as well, chisel. And now that there is the BigOne Art as well, that's also. So, I will always have the set for each color and then the refiller of those colors as well.So that I always have a choice of what marker to use. But I also love, for example, for Sketchnoting on smaller formats. Now they have this new FineOne. What are they called? FineOne Flex with the flexible tips.MR: Yep. I love that one too.FSB: Yeah, I really, really like that. They're great for lettering as well.MR: Yeah.FSB: There's a different size of the stroke. I've got the graphic wall. One of my first project in 2018 was a brand filmmaker and another producer storyteller. We did a video where I was filming with drone and everything. We were in the Swiss mountains or in front of the government building or In Geneva at the UN. We were just moving around the graphic wall and telling a story with that and drawing with that.Graphic Wally, I use as well for online workshops. I guess analog, well, there again, it's kind of digital tools, but the IPEVO. I recently got an IPEVO camera. It's a document camera which is great. I use it mostly for making what they call the time loops. No, time lapses.MR: Yeah. They take a shot and then you wait a bit of time and keep taking shots.FSB: No. Well, pretty much I take a video and I speed it up.MR: You kinda squeeze it. Yeah, speed it up.FSB: Speed it up so that it looks really nice as well. I guess pretty much, I guess Neuland has all what I need for my needs.MR: All your needs. Yeah.FSB: I use the AcrylicOne's to draw. My balcony tables are all completely drawn. You could give me a marker in my hand, I will start filling whatever surfaces in front of me.MR: That's great. That's great. And then digital, I'm assuming you must use an iPad as well, and what's the app that you like to use there?FSB: I have an iPad Pro 11 inches.MR: Oh, me too.FSB: Boring as everybody, Procreate. I'm using Procreate. The flow is so nice with Procreate. There's so many option, I guess the force of habit. And otherwise, I also use Concepts for when I need to do something vector-based. But I feel like, yeah, it does not have the same flow, the same ease of use as Procreate.MR: Different interface. Yeah, for sure.FSB: That's about it.MR: Simple tools.FSB: Yeah.MR: Well, that's really great. Let's shift now again to tips. This is the place where I invite you to think about someone listening, who is in the visual thinking, whatever that means to them, but maybe they feel like they're on a plateau or they just need some encouragement from you, Filippo, what would be three things you would tell them can be practical, can be mindset, whatever that you would share to encourage them.FSB: For sure, as I mentioned before, something I really like to do now, and I think that more of us should do that. Barter, barter your services. You have very unique set of skills. Just what do you like from potential clients or from your friends? You wanna go to holidays somewhere, just reach out and say, what can I do for you? And you'd be surprised at all the good deals that might come your way in exchange of your drawings and your skills. So, barter.MR: Love that.FSB: Second one is ask your colleagues, connect, share, and give. I've learned so much. When I started, I connected first with the European visual practitioners and then also with the IFDP, and now we also have some meetings in Switzerland of a visual practitioners in Switzerland just to exchange and learn from each other at any given moment is so extremely valuable because most of us we're working alone.And you don't get real feedback, or you cannot grow much just from client work, because most clients would just say, "Oh, that's beautiful." And you might not even want it to be beautiful. You want it to be helpful. Getting constructive feedback, honest, constructive feedback from peers, it's something that can really help you step up your work.MR: That's great. I like that.FSB: And finally, more maybe technical tip for graphic recording, prepare your titles ahead. Your title, for me, is one of the most important things in your graphic recording. Is the one thing that should not—maybe also with logos and maybe your signature, but the titles is the one thing that should not be done while other people are speaking. You should put thought into it. Say, what do I wanna communicate with this title?Because it's probably gonna be the largest font on your paper, and when people enter the room, they're gonna see that as the first thing. And you want them to keep looking at it and not to just say, "Oh, what is it? Yeah, no, not interested." And turn their head away, because then—so really use your title to hook the attention of the public and to really give the framing of the meaning of your recording.The other controversial tip, I may have an extra one. I know that there's some visual practitioner that might crucify me for saying that, but use Post-it. At least I'm very keen on the truthfulness of the information, of the accuracy that there's no points really missed. That all the essential points are on the recording. And you're always a bit a delay in recording compared to somebody speaking.So, Post-it have been a lifesaver for me. Just pick it up, put them in order. Because it even allows you a further selection level. Once you have four or five Post-it, it's like, yeah, maybe not all of that is necessary. Or, oh, wow, look, this is the flow that I need to follow. So, I dunno, I think the Post-it are a little bit of a secret weapon to have complete and relevant graphic recordings.MR: In some ways, that's like a buffer capture, right? So, you're trying to capture things quickly. It doesn't have to be beautiful, but you can capture that idea. I talk about that in Sketchnoting. I call that putting a stake in the ground. If you're working on a page, like maybe you start the section and then you just guess how much space it will take.Could use a Post-it note there, I suppose too. A little one and put it in, but basically leave the space and come back to it right in, just enough so you can fill it. I like that. Even if it's controversial. I think it's just—it's funny, people will come to me and say, "Well, this isn't Sketchnote." It's like, why not?Using references, using Post-It notes, your goal is to communicate ideas and get those ideas captured. How you do it, I don't care. If it doesn't look beautiful or it's not sanctioned or whatever, who cares. The goal is not for me to do it exactly as someone else told me to. The goal is, if you can come up with a way to deliver that message, then you win.That should be really the ultimate goal is to, like you said, not people looking at it. Oh, I don't care about it, or that it looks beautiful, but does it capture what we're talking about? Does it move us forward? Does it help us to remember so that we don't forget what we talked about, and then it pushes us ahead? That's really the goal of all the stuff we're doing, right? We're communicating visual ideas.FSB: Yeah. The bottom line is does it help? Am I doing work that is helpful? I'm usually paid for it, so I want to give the maximum added value to my client, and I guess that whatever means help you to capture the most and to be the most helpful to your client, that should be used.MR: Yeah. I agree. So, I'm very pragmatic, I guess is the right word. So, if it works for you, then you should go with it.FSB: Yeah. And I think similarly, another thing I've been reading in a lot of books is about, you know, you put down the pen, the moment the person stop speaking. And I feel like you can do that, but I don't think it helps in really having a complete and helpful recording because maybe, you know, the last session, they're like, "Hey, let's collect all the next step. Let's have a quick popcorn brainstorming session."And I'm gonna come up with a lot of information, which might all be relevant, and you still wanna take the time to actually write it down completely and maybe take 15, 20, 30 minutes longer after the end, just communicate it clearly to the client before. If that helps, then why not also take a little bit of time longer, and I'm not saying then finishing at home in the next few days.No. It just take a little slot of time afterwards that agreed upon beforehand with the client to actually get the time to finish thing and not just lock down something if it's something very relevant, you want to give it the space that it deserves.MR: When I do sketchnotes, I try to do most of the work in the moment, but I always reserve at least 15 minutes to look for typos and make sure that things make sense. If I did that staking technique where I started to capture and I didn't finish, to make sure I fill it in, right? So, to plan in a little bit of time at the end, I would think is a normal process for graphic recording too, right?Just to check your work, make sure that things are, you know, oh, I need to cross that T or dot that I, that's something that I'll get caught with sometimes. So, I think it's important to build in not just the minute you stop, you're done. Well, you can come back and fix things, or. I would think that that's a pretty standard thing.FSB: Absolutely. Yeah.MR: I would hope so. Anyway. Well, Filippo, this has been so great. Tell us how we can reach you. Where do you hang out if we wanna reach you on social media or a website, or what would be the best way to reach out to you if we wanna get in touch and connect?FSB: Sure. Well, you can visit my website www.sketchysolutions.ch. You can follow me for example, on Instagram or Facebook as well, Sketchy Solutions. Or add me on LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn. It's Filippo Buzzini. I will send you all the links.MR: Yeah. We'll have show notes, everybody, for everything we talk about. It's one of the things we like to do here is have good reference, so you can go check things out. So, thank you so much. It's so great to meet you. Really, I'm so happy to see the work you're doing in Switzerland, and every time I discover somebody new, it's exciting to see that the work that we do is happening all over the world. That's really exciting to me. So, thank you for the work you do. I so appreciate that you're willing to be who you are and you're not afraid of it. That's such a good thing to see.FSB: Well, and thank you so much, Mike for helping so many of us start and putting us in the right direction and keep inspiring us. But it's really a big honor to be interviewed by you and to be able to chat in general, like, wow. If I would've told that to the first-year graphic recording, Sketchy, I would never have believed to say that I would be sharing a Zoom call and having a chat with the Mike Rohde.MR: Thank you so much. It's really an honor. Thanks so much. Well, everyone, it's another episode of the "Sketchnote Army Podcast." Until next episode, this is Mike. Talk to you soon.

In this episode, Katrin shares how working on personal branding and marketing as a university project launched her sketchnoting career and increased her visibility on LinkedIn.Sponsored By ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts, a perfect tool for sketchnoting, available on iOS, Windows, and Android.Concepts’ infinite canvas lets you to sketchnote in a defined area while still enjoying infinite space around it — to write a quick note, scribble an idea or to keep pre-drawn visual elements handy for when you need them most.The infinite canvas lets you stretch out and work without worrying if you’ll run out of space. When combined with powerful vector drawing that offers high-resolution output and complete brush and stroke control — you have a tool that’s perfect for sketchnoting.SEARCH “Concepts” in your favorite app store to give it a try.Running OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Katrin?Origin StoryKatrin's current workSponsor: ConceptsTipsToolsWhere to find KatrinOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Katrin on LinkedInKatrin's websiteKatrin on InstagramEva-Lotta LammThe Sketchnote Handbook: The Illustrated Guide to Visual Note Taking by Mike RohdeEat to Beat Depression and Anxiety: Nourish Your Way to Better Mental Health in Six WeeksDr. Drew Ramsey podcastGoogle career event for women.Richard van der BloomAndrew D. HubermanHell Yeah or no by Derek SiversSketchnoting: Communicate with Visual Notes with Eva-Lotta LammToolsPen.Notebook.Steadtler pigment linersStabilo pensCopic markersTombow brush pensiPadProcreateDrawing glovesPaperlikeTipsPick a project you are really exited about.Don't compare yourself to othersDon't overcomplicate things. Don't overcomplicate sketchnoting.Don't over value talent.CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerShownotes and transcripts: Esther OdoroSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!Episode TranscriptMike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike and I'm here with Katrin Wietek. How are you doing, Katrin? ** Katrin Wietek:** I'm really good and I'm really honored to be on your podcast today, Mike. MR: And it's so great to have you. I'm excited to hear your story and all the things you have to share with us. But first, I understand that you have a nickname, Kat, and I would love to hear what's the origin story of the nickname. KW: Actually, in 2014 and 2015, I went for a work and travel year in New Zealand. I'm originally from Germany. And I decided I wanted to go to the place that's the furthest away from Germany, and that was New Zealand, and it was also beautiful on top of that. I worked at a little cafe restaurant thingy and there was another employee from Germany and her name was Karina, so Karina in English and our boss, he switched up our names all the time. And then one day he said, "You know, from this day on, I'll call you Karina and your Kat." From that day on, with all my English-speaking friends, I stuck with Kat, basically. So yeah, that's how Kat came to be. MR: Oh, that's great. You probably know how to make a really good flat white then, I suspect if you worked in a cafe in New Zealand, eh? KW: My barista skills came a little bit later. They didn't trust me with the coffee machine. I was basically waiting tables and getting orders in and working on the till and everything. But a little bit later I was finally taught how to do coffee MR: Oh, good, good. I'm glad to hear that. That's very important. If you go to New Zealand, you have to have a flat white, I think, or Australia. KW: Or Mocha. MR: Mocha, yeah. KW: Don't forget the Mocha. MR: That's my wife's favorite drink, so she would be happy to hear that. KW: Nice. MR: So, hey, let's get started. I am really curious to hear your story. You've hinted as we've gotten ready to begin that you have an interesting one. Tell us the story of how you ended up—well, actually, let me back up. I think I'm jumping my own schedule. Let's first understand who you are. Tell us who you are and what you do, and then you can jump right into your origin story after that. KW: Okay. As a profession, I would say I am a content marketer by day. I work in B2B content marketing, part-time. And then I'm also self-employed. I do freelancing work. And that's not only sketchnoting and illustrating, but a whole range of copywriting and social media work. I have a really diverse career, I would say. MR: Oh, that's great. Obviously, the place that I've found you and I've seen you do most of your work is LinkedIn, which is fascinating because as social media goes, I've actually been more attracted to LinkedIn in a lot of ways because the quality just seems like it's a little bit better and there's, I guess a little bit fewer ads. I don't know, they all seem overloaded with ads to me, but I know that Instagram has a strong community around sketchnoting, but I'm starting to see, and the thing I don't know, is on LinkedIn, is it because I'm following so many visual thinkers that my feed just seems loaded with visual thinking? Or is it actually a trend in LinkedIn? It's probably more likely the former, in that I've sort of made a little bubble for myself. But I would love to hear, a little bit of your thought on LinkedIn and the work you do there specifically. KW: I think LinkedIn is a platform where visuals work really, really well. I think part of that is that the platform is not like as visual as Instagram or Pinterest, for example. Because on Instagram you had this buildup, every visual had to be better than the other one. And people are just used to beautiful pictures and really good infographics and everything. And a lot of the content on LinkedIn is still text-based. So, I think once you add a really cool picture that's not a selfie, that actually drives value, I think that's why they work really well. And also, because LinkedIn is a bit more similar to Facebook and the way that if somebody comments, this comment pops up in your timeline if you follow the person. It's a lot easier to be discovered by other people on LinkedIn. Especially, when I was posting on LinkedIn, I did a lot of career content, and that's perfect for the platform. You know, it's a whole like strategic networking and the career world, if you do content in that area. I think that's just pre predestined for LinkedIn. And I would say yes, you live in kind of a bubble, but I think the amount of visuals and infographics and sketchnotes is definitely increased over time. I think when I started doing it, I didn't see a lot of work like that, but who was already on the platform at that time was Tanmay Vora. I think you know him. MR: Oh yeah, yeah. KW: I saw his schedules a lot. And now it's gotten a lot more, which is cool. Oh, and you also see a lot of the explained ideas visually on LinkedIn, really small graphics where it's just a simple idea. There are a few people who do that and they are all over LinkedIn. MR: Got it. My screen up has one of your more recent sketchnotes, my takeaways from the LinkedIn algorithm report. So maybe I need to look at that sketch note and sort of understand what's going on and then I adjust accordingly, right? Yeah. KW: Yeah. It will be a lot quicker than reading the whole 50 or 60-page report. MR: Which is the beauty of Sketchnoting, right? KW: It is. MR: That's really great to hear. All right. So, we know what you do. Go into your origin story. It sounded like you had a really interesting history before, to kind of bring you to where you are. I'd love to hear that story. KW: The story's actually a little bit longer, so sit back. MR: Go for it. We have time. We have plenty of time. KW: I started thinking about what you said, like, was there a moment in my childhood or in my school life? And I wouldn't say not really, but I always had really neat school notes. Because when I had a messy note from school, I wouldn't learn from it. I always needed to make sure like my handwriting was nice and it didn't look messy. And I also remember color coding different topics. For example, we did the democratic system in Germany or whatever, and then it had like yellows, oranges, and reds throughout the whole topic. And then for another topic I chose, I don't know, blues, purples and dunno. So that helped me. At that time, I had no understanding of graphic design or how color theory works, but I did that just intuitively. I would say I was never really good at drawing in school. Arts and drawing always can really hard. And it wasn't until I discovered the internet and that I could like retrace work of other people, that helped me understand and get better at my art skills I also remember one funny story. It was actually during my A Levels. In the German language class, we were very required to read all those classic, like all these classic books from good and so on. From the 1700 and 1800s. And I hadn't read a single one of them for my A Levels. During the years, like the grade 11 and 12, it was I think, I never read anything and then I kind of panicked. What I did was I looked up the Wikipedia summaries, and I couldn't memorize any of it, so I drew little comics. So, I had like gorgeous work and like a little scrappy comic. And then all these other people's works, I basically just looked at the comics the whole time when I was on the bus and when I was at home. I never had read these books because I had so much other stuff to learn. I think that's maybe when it started and when I found the power of visuals and with my really neat school notes that I had drawn. I think that's how I came to be. I'm not sure if it was you who I found first, but I think actually it was Eva-Lotta Lamm— MR: Makes sense. Yeah. KW: Who I found first because it was in 2015, I would say when I finished school, she did like a travel diary consisting out of sketch modes from her around the world trip. And I thought that was so cool, so incredibly cool. I was really inspired because I'd also like traveled and I thought, "I wish I had known it before then." And I think that's when I googled the term sketchnotes and then your book popped up. "The Sketchnote Handbook." I think at that time it wasn't available in German or maybe it was, but I ordered the English version on Amazon. Then I read through it and I did some of the exercises and then I forgot all about it. I got busy because I started a degree. After school I started my degree in digital media and I was actually working in software development at the same time and I was doing user research user experience design, I think what you are doing right now as well, Mike. I forgot about the sketchnotes, but what I always had to do at work was like facilitate workshops. I worked a lot on flip charts everything and I always was really invested in making those flip charts look really, really nice and really cool and really clean. During the whole degree I forgot about the whole sketchnote thing. When I finished my degree, I was little bit lost a because I knew what I was doing before. I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue that as a career and I wanted to know maybe there's other stuff out there as well. I decided I wanna take a break between my bachelor's and my master's and I got a part-time job and I decided in 2019 I was gonna do 12 creative projects. Each month was one creative project. That's when I remembered that I had your book at home and I was like, well, in January, let's start with the sketchnotes because I really wanna get better at them. And I've never got into them and never had finished any work. January was sketchnotes. I basically listened to podcasts about topics I was really interested in at that time. So that was personal finance. I was teaching myself a lot about finance and what to do and taxes and what not to do and also health topics. From a research perspective, how do I live a healthy life? Like what do I need to do? What should I eat? How much should I sleep? How do I reduce stress and everything? Mental health was really big at that time. I listened to all those podcasts and I basically turned them into sketchnotes to just memorize all the information that I heard on all the podcasts. I started posting them on Instagram. Basically, you set up a whole new account, said, "Hey, here's my 12th creative project." If you scroll down, you can still see the announcement. Then basically just posted all of the sketchnotes. It was really funny because one of the—oh, and what I wanted to say, one of my core values in life is lifelong learning. And I think the sketchnotes tie in really well with that because they help you so much with learning because you're visualizing the information and it helps you memorize it, it helps you retrieve it. That's why I picked it as a first project. Actually, I did one sketchnote about mental health and nutrition, what are important nutrients for the brain. It was a podcast with a nutritional psychiatrist called Drew Ramsey. He was from New York. I did a sketchnote. I tagged him, didn't expect anything of it, but he saw a sketchnote and he loved it. He was like, "Oh, this is so cool." At that time, I had maybe done, I would say 10 sketchnotes in total. MR: Oh wow. That's pretty good.KW: Yeah, I know. He was like, "I have this research about— In his research he identified 23 nutrients that are important for the brain. And he was like, "Do you wanna do a sketchnote on each of them?" I was like, "Okay. I'm not a freelancer, you know, I've just only started this, this is a hobby actually I have a February project coming up." I was a bit confused, but I said yes because I like to do things that terrify me. At that time, my process was still really, really basic. I was basically what you describe in your book, I don't know the two-way technique. I basically had a piece of paper, I drew everything on pencil, erased a whole lot and then rearranged it and I had the whole pencil thingy, then I retraced it with a pen, then I erased my pencil lines, then I scanned it, then I put it in Photoshop and made it look really neat. That's what I uploaded. That's also what I did for Drew Ramsey, so it was really tedious. It took a lot of time to do the 23 nutrients. MR: I bet. KW: Yeah. And I can tell you I never got around to doing the another 11 project of that year because Drew was really happy and then he came to me and he said, "You know what? I'm writing a new book. Do you wanna illustrate it?" I was like, "Oh my God." MR: That's great. Scary but great, right? KW: It was really scary. I think there was a lot of serendipity involved in that whole story because I basically had just started, it was just to figure out what I wanted to do with my creative life and with my career. And it was just one project of many projects. I had so much cool stuff coming up. I wanted to do product design and videos and editing, but I got stuck with the sketchnotes. And the book was really cool. The topic was "Eat to Beat Depression and Anxiety." So basically, the nutrients that are important for the brain and if you suffer from certain mental health conditions. Drew was super cool. He was writing the script at the same time and he always sent me the script and he basically said, "You have full creative freedom. You can decide what to make a sketchnote out of. Here's the script. You can decide how many sketchnotes you wanna make." I can remember I got—because he published a book with Harper Collins and they sent me this whole illustrative agreement. I was like, "Oh my God, I have no idea what I'm signing here and what they want from me and file types." I had no idea what they wanted. MR: Production stuff. KW: Yeah. I was so terrified. But I did it. For that project actually I knew that my whole pen and paper and pencil and scanning and Photoshopping wouldn't work, so I got the iPad for that. Basically, took all the money that I made from the 23 nutrient sketchnotes and put it in an iPad so I could do the book project. That was super fulfilling. And they never had any revision wishes or something like that. They basically like, "Oh, you want to do a sketchnote on the benefits of dark chocolate, do it. Just do it. And it was so cool. I would say, that took around half a year. Basically, my break had come to an end and I was really doing a lot of sketchnoting. Well, in retrospective, it wasn't so much sketchnoting work, but I also had a part-time job. For me, it filled a lot of my time and I didn't have time or the creative energy to do anything else at the time by the way. Fun fact, these old sketchnotes that I created with the pen and paper and Photoshopping and scanning and everything, they also landed in the book. Nobody told me. They totally didn't fulfill the technical requirements and stuff, but Drew was just like, "I want this in the book." MR: He's passionate about it. KW: Yeah. He was passionate and he didn't care that they had a totally different style and like the quality was really different to the iPad because of how the way I worked back then. It was so funny that he like just put them in the book as well. That was really funny. After the book project I started my master's degree, I was figuring out I wanted to go into marketing, and my degree was in corporate communications. It was really funny, we had a social media module. Basically, do a social media strategy. My professor, he had these companies that we could collaborate with or we could also bring our own project. For example, like one of my classmates, he brought I think his dad's tax office firm or something like that. Then during my degree, I got really interested in LinkedIn because first time in my life I actually knew or got to know what B2B and B2B marketing was. Then I found out, okay, there's this platform LinkedIn and everybody's on LinkedIn and I should maybe make an account too. At that time, I think personal branding, the whole term and the concept of it was really popular on LinkedIn. Right now, it's everywhere, but at that time it grew in popularity, I would say. Then I thought, maybe I can do my own personal branding strategy. Then I asked my professor and he was like, "Yeah, sure, do whatever you want. And I was like, cool— MR: That's so smart. KW: Cool, let's do it. And then, I think I got a book about digital personal branding. It was a German book. The author, she basically said, "Because you have to figure out your content strategy and what you're gonna write about and what mediums you're gonna use and what the purpose is and who your audience is." And she basically started like, "Lay out your superpower portfolio." So basically, write down all your skills, your knowledge, your unique experiences. Then I did the whole exercise and I put sketchnoting in there for my skills. Then she said, "Well, which ones do resonate the most? Circle them and then make your content strategy out of it." Then I knew, okay, sketchnotes were gonna play a big role in my personal branding thingy, kind of. And at that time, because I was in LinkedIn, I was really interested in how could I advance my career. I had basically just done a pivot from lUX design to marketing. Then there were so many content creators talking about how to negotiate your salary, what to put on your cv, how to strategically network on LinkedIn. I thought it was so cool. I never heard any of that before. Everything I learned from LinkedIn Lives and podcasts and other people's posts, I just put into sketchnotes because I wanted to memorize it. And that was really cool 'cause like I said, the whole career content really resonates with the whole LinkedIn audience because everybody's trying to advance in their careers and in their jobs. So yeah, that was really cool. I think basically, I had a few favorite creators and they had a huge following. So what I did, I watched a talk and then I created a sketchnote then I tagged them. Like I said earlier, LinkedIn works a bit like Facebook. So then they saw it, they commented and then their whole network came to my sketchnotes. That's how I created this, in my eyes, huge following. 10,000 followers is not huge, but for me it's like, oh my God i’ts crazy.MR: That's pretty good. It's pretty huge. KW: Yeah. I think so. That's how I grew on the sketchnotes. They really blew up. I would say like after the social media module we had to do a presentation with our analytics and I think I had half a million views on my content. Which to me was just mind blowing, you know. I had no idea how to explain. It was just like, you know, I did this. I posted this, this was my strategy and it just worked so well. It was incredible. Like I said, visuals work really well on LinkedIn. That definitely contributed to it even though I had a super small reach. But since all the big creators saw it and brought their audience, that didn't matter so much. Funny story, then it was summer and I was a bit exhausted from the module and I thought, woo, that was intense because all these people text you and write you, and like how do you do it and you wanna hop on a call? And I was really overwhelmed with all the attention that I then I went abroad. Funny story. And then I went abroad to study in Scotland for a semester and I had another digital marketing module and our professor was basically, "You just have to create a website and market it and you can create a website about whatever you want." And I'm like, "Well, I'm gonna pick my own website and market it." That's how my website came to be out of that university project. And with the marketing, I basically continue what I was doing anyway on LinkedIn. Then I posted a bit more on Instagram and I tried out on Pinterest as well, but I basically just continued for the module, what I was doing in the old module as well. I'm really grateful that my university professors both in Germany and in Scotland, they just let me do my own thing and work on my personal brand because it paid off crazy. I still can't believe the few sketchnotes that I posted, I got so much attention and my audience grew. I'm really thankful they just let me do my own thing and get university credits for it. That's cool. MR: You really got good value from your education in that sense because it was so directed and practical. KW: Yeah. MR: As I listen to your story, the two things I reflect on is you actually started this all with, you mentioned reading about Goethe and all these masters, and you made these little comic books that you then studied. You realized really early that there was something about the visualization, at least for your brain. At that point you probably didn't think about anybody else, right. You just wanted to pass your A levels, right? So, you were using this technique to visualize this information and you found that it worked for you and that you came back to it. And that turned out to be of the seed for everything that you're doing, which is cool. And then the second part is what you just said that your professors were open to you directing your own path of the things that you wanted to market. I would imagine from a professor's perspective, and when I was in school, I relate to this that there was a crew of a couple of people who were really interested in doing more than the more than the curriculum said. There were a lot of people that just did exactly what the curriculum said and they met it to the T. They did exactly what the teacher wanted, but it was kind of boring, right? Like it was the same as the sample. Like it didn't really extend further. So, I can imagine these professors more have the problem of students, like if they gave them any choice that they would not choose anything. They would just go to the ones that everybody else does. And so, they might have actually been excited to see that you took it in a direction that most students don't, which is, well I know me the best, let's market myself and take that as the case study. So that's cool that the opportunity was there and that you kept on leaning on it. And then I guess the third thing would be your sense with these sketchnotes that you did initially that turned into 23 sketchnotes and then a book that it reveals to me that if you're in the right place at the right time doing this work and you hit the right person, those opportunities can open up. Obviously, they did and then you were aware enough that you stepped into those even though they were probably pretty scary, right? Doing 23 sketchnotes manually and doing all this work. And then jumping right into doing a book illustration project was, I'm sure a real challenge and maybe freaked you out a little bit at the time, but now you're glad that you did it right. Think of how much that's impacted your career and your person as well. That's just a great story. It's really fun to listen to you to share it with us. KW: I would definitely say because what you—and there's a whole lot of serendipity involved. Like you said, I was at the right time in the right place. What I also didn't expect, you know, basically my goal with the whole like personal branding thing on LinkedIn, which people know me for now, they don't know me for the book illustration project or what I did back then, the little bit of work.But it's impacted my career in so many ways that don't directly translate to sketchnotes even. For example, I had recruiters reach out to me. I was a marketer on LinkedIn, but I must have thought that my sketchnoting skills translate to, "Well, she must be a good marketer. She gets all this engagement, she has to know what she's doing on social media." That was really astounding that basically they just saw the sketchnoting skill, but they assumed I was a good marketer because of what I was doing. Then also I remember I attended an online Google career event for women and I basically, they had lots of inspiring speakers and I basically just put my favorite quotes on a really nice-looking sketchnote. Then you could apply for this Google career upskilling program as a university person. I networked with all the people that I put on the sketchnote, like the quotes. I put the quotes in the sketchnote and then I also submitted this with my application and I got into the program. I think it was a really smart way of saying, "Hey, "I'm going the extra mile and I really want this." But that was really cool. And then also, one of my former employers, they had seen me on LinkedIn and I was doing paid media work for them, but they were like, "Do you wanna kickstart our LinkedIn strategy? "Do you wanna come up with that? I was still a student at that time, so that was kind of big, you know, like coming up with the strategy and presenting it to the founders and to CEO of the company. That was really cool. I think also, in the hiring processes as a marketer, it always gave me a big bonus because I'm a content marketer, and I wanna make sure I have a really diverse skillset set. Be it writing or basic video editing skills or basic graphic design skills. And then I also have sketchnoting skills in case they needed it at some point. And then I have, of course, the freelance work as a sketchnoter, but also like freelance work as a copywriter for LinkedIn. Because they see, hey, I know how the platform works and then people approach me if I can help them with the LinkedIn profiles and with their content. Because I'm a polymath, I'm a multi-passionate person. I have many interests in life. I really appreciate it. That not only sketchnoting work came from this, but so many other opportunities. That's so cool. For me, that's the best part about the whole story. MR: That's really great. And I think, you know, not to be missed if you're listening is Katrin was very aware of these opportunities. I remember there was a study years ago, they talked about happy people or something, or lucky people, I don't know if you've heard this story that they had a newspaper and the lucky people would notice that there was an ad in the second page that said, "If you see this ad, stop reading and go collect your money you've won or something.” But people that were unlucky who thought themselves unlucky would miss that and they were looking through this newspaper. So, apparently, that was the whole test. The study more deeply talked about, being lucky is much more of a mindset because these things happen to many people, but many people are not prepared or not aware or not willing to do what you did. You were aware, you were prepared, you know, to do something, but then you also took a risk, right? Doing those 23 things was probably scary. Some people might have turned that down and that whole line of books and everything that happened would go open a puff of smoke, right? KW: Yeah. MR: This idea that you're open to trying new things and you know, the possibility of failure is there, right? That could have gone badly, but you wouldn't know that until you went down that path. I think, if you're listening to this and thinking, "Oh she's so lucky." It's like, well she kind of made her own luck. She saw these opportunities and she took a risk that could have gone the other way and it just worked out that she did the hard work to deliver. I think that this is such a great origin story that's so inspiring. Maybe we don't need tips. Maybe you just need to listen to the origin story again instead of the tips. I don't know. KW: I have one fun mantra that ties in really well with this. I always say to myself, "I can be terrified and brave at the same time." Same with the podcast. I was super scared to come on and talk about this and it's my first podcast. But this doesn't keep me from doing stuff. Same with the book project. I don't understand the illustrative agreement and everything, but I'm gonna figure it out. You know, I'm terrified, but that doesn't mean it keeps me from doing the thing. And yeah, that's one of my life things that's really important to me. MR: I love that. That's a great one. Okay. We've got your origin story. Tell us about what's a project that you're working on now that you're really excited about? Either something that maybe just came out or maybe something that's in the works that will come out when this episode releases in March, sometime. KW: What I was really excited about was part two of the LinkedIn algorithm report thing by Richard van de Blom. It's actually quite funny. I've landed so many dream projects in my life basically by giving away a little bit of my work for free. Then the person seeing it and then them hiring me to do more of that. And that same thing happened with Richard. So basically, did the LinkedIn algorithm report in 2021 just for free. I found it and I thought, I thought, "Oh, this is a great piece of content, maybe a bit too long for LinkedIn, let's put it in a sketchnote. I think this could be really beneficial." And Richard basically said, how it blew up. And he was like, "Wow, that's crazy. Can you do more of that for me?" And I love working with him. Because I always say it's more important who you work with than what you than what you work on 'cause he basically gives me full creative freedom. He's not somebody to do many revisions. He's basically, "Just do whatever you want. I trust you, you're the expert." Apart from that, actually, that answer might surprise you, but I've taken a step back from freelancing in particular 'cause I was doing so much freelance work and not much work just close to my heart, you know, just for myself as a hobby. Freelancing burned me out a little bit, particularly being stuck in revision hell, revisions going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.I'm taking a step back and really asking myself the question, is this something I wanna make a lot of money with or is it more a hobby? And if a dream project comes along my way, then I'm gonna do it, but otherwise, I'm gonna say no. I don't have an answer to that question yet. I think like some days I lean more towards that and other days I lean more towards the hobby side of it. I always listen to the other guests on your podcast 'cause they have made a career out of it and they are illustrators and everything. But me, as a multi-passionate person, I don't want to be like a full-time illustrator or a full-time sketchnote artist. What I do as a content marketer, I can do so many different disciplines, and sketchnoting is one of them.So yeah, freelancing has taken the joy away from it a little bit. So, I'm taking a break right now to find my passion again and the things I'm really passionate about and then maybe get into freelancing again. If one of my favorite podcasts said, "Hey, can you be like our sketchnoter for every episode? Like Andrew Huberman, I love his podcast, neuroscience. He talks about neuroscience. Then I will be, "Of course, I would draw each of your episodes." But with other projects, I have to be really excited either about the person that I work with or about the work they do. Otherwise, it's a clear no. It needs to be a hell yes for the work that I do.MR: Which is Derek Sivers, of course. "Hell Yeah or No," Is his famous book. It seems like what you're talking about is opportunity cost, right? If I'm doing freelance work, what if this amazing podcast comes in and I'm loaded? I can't do it. The opportunity might be lost there. So you have to be careful. I think in some ways, probably the advantage you have in working part-time is that you have to make a choice. If you're doing something like this full-time, then you would have more margin to do more and maybe you wouldn't feel it. But being part-time helps you get clarity around what you want to do.Then probably the other thing I would say is you probably would identify that as a multi-talented content marketer that sometimes sketchnotes aren't the right medium for something. Sometimes video is a better medium or writing is a better medium, right? It's like an expert mechanic. They don't use the wrench for everything because it's not designed for that. You use the tool that's designed for that task. In the same way, Sketchnoting can be overused, I think, and if you see too much of it, then it becomes like back background noise or something. So, deploying it in the right opportunities probably is important there. So—KW: I actually.MR: Go ahead.KW: I actually wanted to ask you, Mike, how you decide which freelance projects to take on and how you prevent creative burnout. 'Cause I definitely struggled with it, so I wanted to hear your opinion on this.MR: Well, I've struggled with it as well. I do a full-time job as a user experience designer. I love doing it. I work in software. For some people they would look at what I do and think, "That's like the most boring thing ever." But I love it. Like helping work on corporate software and solving—making somebody's life. I don't know who these somebodies are. Somebody's life is going to get better because I've spent the time to think about what's the right way to work through this workflow so that it's smoother, that it's cleaner, that if I do it in one area, it applies to another area. All these things that I think about. That's my full-time work.What that means is that all the sketchnoting stuff that I do, if I travel and I teach at a school, or if I go to the international sketchnote camp or whatever I do, like I've got a limited time to choose from. So, I have to be very choosy and picky. I think I followed a similar pattern to you. It's either really yes or no. I tend to be someone who loves to help people. So, I'll tend to say yes, a little bit too much. I've been getting better at saying no. One of my solutions has been to build a network of people who do work that I admire so that when I get the project that comes in, it's like, "Eh, I could do that, but I'm not in love with it." I could think, "John is really good at that. I'm gonna make a connection to John or Mary." Just as an example.For me, I need this outlet of somebody else who I can trust that will handle it, that is a good fit. Like they would fit together and then I just redirect that inquiry to that person. Then try to focus on the things I'm excited about it or I think it will have an impact. That's hard. I don't think I've solved the problem completely because I certainly, occasionally will get projects that aren't exactly what I want to do. But for the most part, I think your comment about finding the right customers is really important. The people you work with are much more important than the projects in a lot of ways. Because if you're given creative freedom like you've said—I think the other thing, the other thing I would say is finding clients that are collaborative.It sounds like many of the clients you've mentioned were very collaborative and working, working with you. They were open to your expertise and would listen to you. Being able to modify what they were thinking if they come to you with an idea and then you come back with them with an alternate idea. You just twisted a little bit and say, "Did you ever think about maybe doing this or that?" And then they're open to it. That's a really important aspect for a customer that I look for.You can tell pretty quickly when you start working on something with someone, whether that's there or that's not there. And then you would have a tendency—I have a few people that I work with. If they call and say they need something, I'm an immediate yes. I don't even have to think about it because I like that person so much. It sounds like you have similar people. Those are the few things that I do.The last thing I'll say is having kids for me is helpful because I can't work all the time. I need to spend time with my kids. I like cooking with my kids. I like spending time with my wife. I have a whole other life beyond all this stuff that keeps me grounded. And just reminding myself that I can't do it all and it's okay. There's many other people and it's a huge opportunity. Everybody's got plenty of work to do and if I give it away to somebody else, it's not like the work will stop coming. It just keeps coming. I don't know if that's helpful.KW: Absolutely. I'm totally on your side and I share your view here. I was wondering, Mike, was there ever a time when you considered sketchnoting your full-time career? Because you're kind of like the inventor of sketchnote. I'm surprised actually to hear that you have this whole full-time job apart from that.MR: I've considered it in the past. It just felt like with a family and all the responsibilities that the variability would be a challenge. I think maybe sometime in the future that would make sense. But I think honestly, having it as a side gig has been good. I've hinted to in the feedback I've given, which is because it can only be a side gig because I'm such a helper and wanting to help people, it forces me to choose. Like if I had it full-time, I might like really overload myself. Having this finite constraint is actually a good thing for me. I found that with sketchnotes too.I stumbled on the sketch notes 'cause I constrained myself to a little book and a pen. That helped me to move into the space where visualization made sense 'cause I couldn't write everything down, I couldn't draw everything. I had to do it in the moment. That whole history was tied to constraints. I found any time where I put some limitations on myself is when I'm most creative. I think that's maybe true for other creative people too. Having that limitation on what's available forces me to make a decision. Like, am I really gonna spend the next three months working on this thing or is it better spent on something else?Sometimes I choose and it's like, "Oh, I wish I hadn't done this." Or it's taking longer than I wanted. I'm still happy with the output. Again, the opportunity cost means, 'cause I'm working on that, I can't take something else that comes in so I have to be more careful. I think, in some ways it's better to have it as a side thing because I can really be selective.KW: I absolutely love it as a side thing. Like I said, especially as being a multi-passionate person, it helps me so much. And then also realizing my time is really valuable. 'Cause otherwise I would've maybe the whole week and I would have a few hours every week. Then communicating this to clients and also saying, "Hey, don't expect revisions in the next five days 'cause I'm really busy with other things. It helps me prioritize and also keeps my life super interesting 'cause I have this other thing next to my regular job, like my employment. I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. So, I can totally get what you're saying.MR: Like I said, maybe in the future the opportunity comes where it becomes a full-time thing. The other thing that I didn't mention is when I started all this stuff, there really wasn't a sketchnoting anything. There are people doing it. Eva-Lotta was doing it around the same time. We started to build this community. A Lot of the work has been building a community of people that do it so that I have students to teach now. Now I'm doing more teaching and that's working well because there's actually people that are interested enough that they would spend money to get real deep teaching.Then also companies being aware. I think you're starting to see this. Companies are becoming aware that visuals in the right context can be incredibly powerful. There's actually enough of a supportive market that you could be full-time. Actually, many of the people on the podcast like Ben Felis and a bunch of other people are full-time because of both of those things. There's a community that's willing to hire them to learn and then there's professionals that are willing to pay for them to do the work. I think a little bit of it is timing and waiting for the market to be there. That sounds like something maybe in the future would make sense to move in that direction. But I haven't decided that yet.KW: It's so fun what you said about teaching 'cause I'm not at all into teaching sketchnoting to other people. So many people have asked me like, "Wow do you do it and what you use and how did you get started?" I always just point them to your book. I'm like, "Sketchnote Handbook" by Mike is the only thing you ever need to read and practice to learn sketchnoting." Then I'm always so happy when I see you have another live workshop coming up and I'm like, "Yeah, go to Mike. He'll teach you. 'Cause I learned from him and he does such a great job. Every time I hear somebody who wants to learn sketchnoting, I point them in your direction.MR: Well, now if you're a German speaker and you're listening, there's another opportunity with Eva-Lotta's got a course that she's offering on Udemy, which think it's around 20 euros, something like that. $20. Anything that Eva-Lotta does is excellent. I'm one of her biggest fans. She's really great and she's very skilled. That's in German language. If there's Germans listening could be a really good fit if that's more natural for you to check that out. Look that up. She also does more intensive teaching on sketching. She's a great teacher as well.KW: I can only second that. I love her work.MR: She's really great. We've talked about your whole origin story, what you're working on. Now let's shift into tools. I'm really curious, you sort of hinted at this. You originally were doing this pencil sketches and inking and erasing and Photoshop, and that's the way I did it too 'cause that's all there was. You had to do that. Now we have really great mobile phone cameras. There's even tools on mobile phones to do modifications. We have platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram where we can share these things. Tell us about what are your tools that you use now? Let's start if you still use any analog tools. What are those tools and then digital after that?KW: With the analog tools, I thought about it a long time. Actually, over the years I became a minimalist and decluttered my whole home and everything. I have to say sketchnoting and illustration doesn't go well with that because you have to buy a pen in every new color that's out there. It just never stops with stationary and pens and notebooks and everything. They didn't make the cut after I switched to the iPad, but if I do some work, I always use the Staedtler Pigment Liners. I think they're a favorite in the community.MR: Excellent. Yeah.KW: And then basically, what I had at home, I used the Stabilo pens back then. I had Copic markers, but you need a certain kind of paper for them 'cause they're alcohol based, otherwise, they bleed through everything. Copic Markers. I had a few Tombow brush pens that I used, but it was really basic. I basically had like maybe 20 pens and pencils that I used the whole time. And then I made the switch to completely digital work 'cause I was always like, "Where do I store all of my work? It's not only stationary and pens and pens, where do I keep it?"Then there's the elements, there's heat and light and everything that works against your work. You know you have of preserve it. And I was getting really stressed out about that. Now, I'm more chill that I know it's all in a digital space. Now my digital space is really cluttered, but I'm working on that as well. But yeah, since then I've basically switched to the iPad and Procreate, the standard stuff and it's really cool. What I want to get, I haven't tried it 'cause I don't actually know anybody who's doing like iPad kind of work. But I never got one of the Paperlike skills 'cause I never wanted to put them on my iPad permanently. But now I know there's a company they do a magnetic thingMR: I've seen this, yeah as well on Instagram. I think I've seen this.KW: You can basically just put it on and then—'cause I watch a lot of TV series and stuff on my iPad then I don't want the paper-like thing on it. Then I can just put it off and then when I draw, I can put it back on. And what was really game-changing for me 'cause I hated doing sketch notes in the summer 'cause my hand always stuck to the iPad. Then I discovered the drawing gloves, they just go around your fingers down here. They've been a game changer. They are so cool. It's an analog tool that I use for digital work.MR: Interesting. Interesting. We have a few friends, Rob Dimeo, who was a huge fan. Michael Clayton, another friend used those gloves. I think I have one in my bag somewhere. I haven't used it for years. I think those were, at least for the iPad, more because I think the old iPad software was not great about determining if your finger was touching or if it was a pencil early on so you would end up getting stray marks in some apps. And so, this is a way to stop that. But it's got the second benefit is keeping your hand from sticking to the screen. Have you been using this magnetic screen cover and how does it work for you?KW: No, I don't have it yet. It's on my list. I thought it was really cool 'cause like I said, I never wanted to put a permanent screen protector on it. I'm getting it this month, hopefully.MR: Okay. I would say Paperlike was a past sponsor of the show, but regardless of that, I like them because I think the way they structure it is the little bumps that they're creating to create that paper-like surface, they're scientifically placing them. I've been actually pretty surprised when I use my iPad that it doesn't seem to impact when the screen is playing, like for tv. You might be surprised how clear it actually is. It'd be really interesting for you to try both then magnetic and the Paperlike and compare them and see. My concern about the magnetic one would be if it's kind of floppy and there's air between there, how does that react? Maybe that's not an issue, but that would be what I would wonder about. Maybe you could share that in a sketch note for us or a video or something.KW: Yeah. I'll do that once I've tried it out, but it's also really cool. I've never had the chance to talk about Paperlike to anyone. It's really cool that you didn't have the impression it ruined the other things you do in the iPad. I was always afraid of that and that's why I didn't wanna buy it. But I might give it a go.MR: All right. Maybe I'll reach out to my friends at Paperlike, and say, "Here's a person who needs a sample."KW: Oh yeah, I would appreciate that.MR: They like doing that stuff. They're really great people at Paperlike. It's a German-based company as well, so.KW: Ah, I didn't know thatMR: They're in Hamburg, so, you know, they could just run a little truck down and drop it off at your place.KW: Really cool. Cool. I'll write the review then.MR: Okay. There you go. Well, we'll work on that offline. Okay. Well, simple tools. I like simple tools. I like buying my tool at the corner drug store. Keeps things real. Analog. So, it makes it easy to replace things when you're in another country as well. You can probably find a gel pen someplace. So, let's shift now. This part is where we talk about tips. And we'd like to frame it as someone's listening, as a visual thinker, whatever that means to them. Maybe they feel like they've sort of reached a plateau where they're a little bit burned out or they need a little inspiration from you. What would be three things you would tell that person to kind of inspire them and get them moving forward again?KW: I would say the first thing is pick a project you're really excited about. I always also say for me, I do a lot of visualization of podcasts, live talks, reports, anything like that, and I need to be excited about the source material 'cause I find especially with freelancing where you don't always can influence what the topic is about or whatever, that really helps. I don't do any work anymore where I'm like, "Oh, this is really uninteresting and I don't wanna be drawing this." And then also, if you're not working of source material, maybe like do the travel sketchnotes. Like Eva-Lotta Lamm did. Pick something, pick a personal project.I would say this was a huge learning curve for me, that I only enjoy sketchnoting when the topic is right. And what I draw about really aligns with my interests and with my passions. And then the next one, it sounds so cliche, Mike, but I think it's so important don't compare yourself to others. Full stop. I know there's like a comparison is to thief of joy or something. But I think it's really true. I have a really basic and minimalist style and when I look at your work or at Nadine Rossa's work, I think she was on your podcast. I always get, I'm like, oh my God, I have such a long way to go and it's my work even good enough.But the validation I got from the outside well tells me it is good enough. There are people who appreciate your minimalist style that's not super visually complex and doesn't have all the really sophisticated doodles and everything. I've come to accept that, I think. And also, I try to stay in my line. I don't look at the work of others so much. if I do that, I set a certain timeframe where I look at your work and then I get some inspiration, but then I leave it at that. I know it's harsh, but maybe that even means unfollowing a few people on social media and only looking at the profiles like, I don't know, once a month or something.I think all you learn basically to not compare yourself to others, but I think it takes some time to learn that. And then also, also sounds a bit cliche, but don't overcomplicate things. Don't overcomplicate sketchnoting. I think that's also in your book. A sketch note doesn't have to be visually complex. And for me, for example, that means if I don't wanna drop people, I don't draw people 'cause I don't. Maybe I don't like the style of it or maybe I haven't put enough practice into it. Well, then I don't draw people.I don't have to do everything that the sketchnote community says that I need to do and how a sketchnote is supposed to look like, you know? "Cause I have quite a minimalist style and I like it that way and maybe at some point it gets more sophisticated or maybe it doesn't, I don't know. I would say those are my three things. Oh, and can I do a fourth one?MR: Yes, you can.KW: Don't overvalue talent. People on LinkedIn, they always tell me you're so talented. And it gets me really angry 'cause sketchnoting is basically you put in the work and the practice and then you get better. It's like running or playing an instrument. It has nothing to do with talent. If you look at my early drawings and when I started practicing with your book, it didn't look great. Don't overvalue talent. There's no talent. Everybody can learn sketchnoting. I would print this on a t-shirt. There you go.MR: I love it. Four is great. And we love it when people give us extra ones, so that's pretty cool.KW: Four is my lucky number.MR: There we go. I think in Asia, isn't four a lucky number? I'm not sure.KW: I don't know. I was born on the fourth, so yeah, that's why—MR: I think actually in Japan, four is unlucky if I remember right. I know this because I was an old PalmPilot guy back in the day. Palm did not release a Palm IV because it was popular in Japan and four, I think it's related to death or something like that. So that's why they jumped from the III to the V.KW: Oh, no. No, with us It's a lucky number.MR: It's a lucky number. I think so. We make our own luck, right?KW: Yeah.MR: So Katrin, what is the best way for us to reach out to you? Obviously, LinkedIn would be good.KW: LinkedIn is great. It's basically Katrin Wietek on LinkedIn. I have this website that I created in university, but I don't maintain it so much. But that's Katrin-kristin.com, I think. Also, that's the same Instagram handle, @katrin.kristin, I think. I don't post so often, but maybe that might change in the future. That's basically the three channels where you can find me online.MR: Primarily, it sounds like LinkedIn is the best place. Obviously, you're pretty active there. So that's, if you wanna see your work and connect there, that would be the place to go. So that's really great.KW: Exactly.MR: Well, this has been really wonderful. Time has flown by. It's been such a fun discussion with you and thank you so much for the work you do and your attitude and how you share your work, and really an ambassador for Sketchnoting in the LinkedIn world probably more than anyone that I can think of. I really appreciate that. And it's so good to see someone representing and having such a positive attitude for the community. I think you're just a great ambassador for us.KW: Well, thank you for inventing sketchnotes, Mike, and thank you for writing that book, because otherwise I wouldn't be here and I definitely wouldn't be at that point in my career. I'm pretty sure about that. And it was an honor to be on your podcast. Thank you so much for the invitation. I'm super proud of where I got along the way. And I'm gonna share the podcast with all the people I know and also posted on LinkedIn, so maybe a few people can see it.MR: Well, for your first podcast in English, you did an excellent job. You're a really great conversationalist.KW: Thank you.MR: Be very proud of that. You did a great job. And maybe I'll send this to people as a guide, if they're on the show, to listen to you.KW: This means a lot. Thank you so much.MR: Well, for everyone who's listening or watching, this is another episode of the "Sketchnote Army Podcast." Until next episode, we will talk to you soon.

Hey, It’s Mike Rohde, and I’m here to announce season 13 of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is launching on Tuesday, March 21st, 2023.This season we’re featuring 10 amazing guests, includingKatrin WietekFilippo "Sketchy" BuzziniInternational Sketchnote Camp 2023 Leiden Organizing TeamMaria Coryell-MartinErik BakeyJulia KnyupaTy HatchMawusi AmoakuEdmund GröplNatalie Taylorand of course the fan favorite All The Tips episode for Season 13You are going to love every episode!Special thanks to our sponsor, Concepts, a perfect tool for sketchnoting, available on iOS, Windows, and Android.
Watch this space on Tuesday, March 21st for episode 1!

In this final episode of The Sketchnote Army Podcast season 12, we’ve gathered all the tips from 9 fantastic visual thinkers to inspire you!Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroHermen Lutje BerenbroekTanvi AgarwalJude PullenNatalia TalkowskaDavid NealKate RutterTim MayRaven HendersonSathyaOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Hermen’s ArtifizerTavi’s Silly StrokesJude’s SiteNatalka DesignDavid Neal’s WebsiteKate Rutter’s siteTim on InstagramRaven’s WebsiteSathya on Twitter1. Hermen’s TipsTrust the power of the human brain.Embrace your mistakes!Draw your conversations for better understanding2. Tanvi’s TipsFocus on the thinking and execution of your visualizationsConsume a lot of good content, observe and learn because your mind-shift from good content impacts your styleInvest in yourself!3. Jude’s TipsMake your brain engage in the environment and challenge yourself to sketch on objectsDraw for someone not in your world: your momLearn to sketch upside-down to stay in flow as you sketch for someone else4. Natalia’s TipsTalk to other people, especially outside of your areaDo something else to break out of your old ways: course, approach, etc.Believe who you and and this is what you do5. David’s TipsFind some way to make visualization a regular thing - practiceKeep at your practice, don’t give up!Forgive yourself when your work is not as great as you want it to beChallenge yourself to develop your own way to create things6. Kate’s TipsDraw until the pen runs dry3 Times a CharmTalk with someone about their work and share yours, asking “why”7. Tim’s TipsBelieve in the value of sketchy work for collaborationDon’t put pressure on yourself to make drawings beautifulTake a class in something new that you don’t know about8. Raven’s TipsDo a challenge like Inktober with promptsGo smaller, like with sticky notes!Listen to others for good ideas9. Sathya’s TipsHave a craftsman’s mindsetBe a great fan of things you love and want to recreateCopy then master it and make it your ownBuild in publicCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Information designer Sathya shares how he began creating visual remixes during the pandemic which has been a big part of his work along with teaching others create visual remixes themselves.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Sathya?Origin StorySathya’s current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find SathyaOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sathya on TwitterSathya on LinkedInTeach for IndiaVisualize ValueBook: Deep Work by Cal NewportBook: Decoding Greatness by Ron FriedmanBook: Scott McCloud's Understanding ComicsBook: Scott McCloud’s Making ComicsJack ButcherCarl RichardsBiryaniToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Ruled NotebookBlue PenCanvaEvernoteNotionFigmaMuralMiroXMindTipsHave a craftsman’s mindsetBe a great fan of things you love and want to recreateCopy then master it and make it your ownBuild in publicCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Raven Henderson shares how her experiences as an Army Brat prepared her to be adaptable in all sorts of situations, including visual challenges.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Raven?Origin StoryRaven’s current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find RavenOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Raven’s WebsiteRaven’s Coaching SessionsRaven on InstagramSermon Sketchnote Facebook CommunityDoug Neill’s Verbal to VisualThe Sketch EffectAlejo Porras InterviewWilliam Warren InterviewDoug Neill InterviewSearchieDesign RevivalBored PandaChristoph NiemannToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Telescoping Pencil CaseTombow PensFrixxion PensRocketbookiPad ProApple PencilProcreateTipsDo a challenge like Inktober with promptsGo smaller, like with sticky notes!Listen to others for good ideasCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Tim May shares his journey from fine art into visualization, bringing a fine art sensibility to strategy, collaboration, and visualization with XPLANE.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Tim?Origin StoryTim’s current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find TimOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.XPLANETim on TwitterTim on InstagramTim on LinkedInBen CrothersDave GraySketchnote Army Podcast Interview with Dave GrayMad Men Performing a Project Premortem Rock, Paper, ScissorsBook: GamestormingGamestorming WebsiteChoco TacoToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sharpie King Size Permanent Marker, Chisel Tip, BlackPosca Paint MarkersSharpie Tank Style Highlighters, Chisel Tip3M 3x5 Sticky NotesWacom Cintiq Pro 16”Adobe IllustratoriPad ProApple PencilProcreateMURALTipsBelieve in the value of sketchy work for collaborationDon’t put pressure on yourself to make drawings beautifulTake a class in something new that you don’t know aboutCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Kate Rutter talks about her path from user-centered design into visual thinking, sketchnotes, and during the pandemic — a call to get back into nature — to adopt nature journaling practice. Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Kate?Origin StoryKate’s current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find KateOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Kate Rutter’s siteKate’s Intelletto PodcastSketchnotes - SF Meetup GroupKate on TwitterKate on IntagramKate on LinkedInKate on YouTubeWild Wonder Nature Journaling ConferenceJohn “Jack” Muir Laws on Sketchnote Army PodcastHow to get started Nature Journaling video workshopKate’s sketchnote of soilToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Uniball Vision MicroTombow FudinosukeZebra Midliner in GrayLamy SafariArt Toolkit Watercolor PaintboxesWater BrushCutoff sock for nature journalingAcornWrite in the Rain Waterproof NotebookTombow Water-Based MarkersTipsDraw until the pen runs dry3 Times a CharmTalk with someone about their work and share yours, asking “why”CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, David Neal, known as ReverentGeek on social media shares how a software developer like him became a tech speaker, educator, illustrator, and sketchnoter. You’ll enjoy this fun interview!Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook’s 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept’s infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you’re ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is David?Origin StoryDavid’s current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find DavidOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.David Neal’s WebsiteDavid’s Avatar Icon ServiceDavid’s Illustrated Dad Jokes BookDavid on LinkedInDavid on TwitterDavid on InstagramShow and Tell with Dan Roam - Talks at GoogleREWORKXKCDAn Illustrated Guide to OAuth and OpenID ConnectMike’s Avatar drawn by DavidPluralsightTipsFind some way to make visualization a regular thing - practiceKeep at your practice, don’t give up!Forgive yourself when your work is not as great as you want it to beChallenge yourself to develop your own way to create thingsToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.iPadApple PencilProcreateConceptsAffinity DesignerPilot Precise V5 Extra FineSharpiesCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!