Connect with Joan EnochEmail: HR@lift-all.comLisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Joan Enoch. Joan has been working with Lift-All company as the HR manager since January of 2004. Lift-All company manufacturers load-secure products in five plants in the United States. Joan has a degree from Penn state in industrial psychology. Throughout her career has worked in banking and consulting for various nonprofits and for-profit companies.She enjoys the no-nonsense and practicality of working in manufacturing and has a heart for people who work hard for their money to support their loved ones. Joan, welcome to the show.JOAN ENOCH: Thank you. I'm so excited to talk about something I'm very passionate about - manufacturing and who our employees are. They're hard-working, and excellent benefits they deserve to take care of themselves and their family members.Lisa Ryan: Well, awesome. Please share your background with us because it sounds like you've done many things before you got into manufacturing. What got you here?JOAN ENOCH: Well, I started in human resources and, like most folks, ended up initially on the recruitment edge of things. Not too long after doing recruitment and banking. I ended up in the compensation arena. Unlike most HR people in my niche, I love compensation and salary administration. With that came some benefits and just a broad breadth of many different things that I've been fortunate and unable to do over my career.I started in banking, and after banking went through lots of mergers and acquisitions, of which I was on a team doing some of that. Next, I found myself doing control consulting work for an employee assistance program and working with many companies. Then, finally, I landed in manufacturing, and, as you mentioned at the onset, I like the no-nonsense nature of manufacturing.We can tell it like it is. We can have good conversations. There's not tons of politics and playing around with how we want to say thanks.Lisa Ryan: When I think too when you and you mentioned employee assistance programs, which I think is so important, especially considering the last couple of years, with everything that we've gone through. What have you seen as far as how benefits have changed?JOAN ENOCH: Well, you know, federal legislation has changed things. When the affordable care Act came out in 2010, that changed many things. A lot of good came out of that in ensuring employers provide all kinds of preventive services for their employees. Those benefits are covered on dollar one. Also, obviously during Covid the last two years, there's just been a change in how people orient to benefits. There was a complete stoppage when Covid first hit, and the medical world had to figure out how we safely deliver services. So there's been a lot of creativity around telemedicine visits.Paired with more focus on mental health, most folks sit back and revisit how they got through Covid. There were some mental health and spiritual changes or emotional changes. That happened for folks over the last couple of years. What is life really about? We're all faced with Covid. It changed things, so it's been good to have that focus.Not just on our physical health but recognizing that there are so many layers to us as human beings, and how do we take our physical health, mental health, and emotional health and make sure that all of those are getting addressed. Our health care system can do that.Lisa Ryan: Well, it's not only important from a legal standpoint that we pay attention to mental health but there's always that if somebody has a physical disability, it's easy for us to see that. It's easy for us to notice it and empathize with it because we can see it.But when it comes to mental health, and we have somebody who is now suffering from depression, or you can't necessarily look at them and see what's wrong, you want to say snap out of it. Put a smile on your face and get back to work, but that full awareness of mental health in the importance of taking care of our employees has come to light in the last couple of years with Covid.JOAN ENOCH: Absolutely, and when you think about different physical ailments that happened to individuals, whether it's an incident of an accident or a diagnosis of cancer when that happens, there's also an emotional and mental component. When we think about general life cycles, if we're dealing with marriages and divorces and adolescent children and or aging parents, there's a physical component. Still, there's also that mental health and emotional health. And, in some cases, medication can help us through certain situations, and in others, we might need to talk with our best to work through my triggers and how do I, you know, manage those a little bit better.Lisa Ryan: Well, and it's been interesting to see the changing of the health care that no there is more accessible access to. Number one to mental health, to therapists but also who would have thought we'd be doing what we were doing with our phones with Telehealth know what do you think this is Doc year ago nobody would even thought of it, and I think that that's a huge change right now.JOAN ENOCH: Absolutely, and I love that, from a federal standpoint or not just federal perspective, but some legislation that has gone through. We recognized, hey, let's try, let's have a no copay for some of those services so that people can get that treatment. Get that connection. Try out what Telehealth looks like telemedicine for physical health, for you know, behavioral and mental health, and it costs less because we're not saying we're not sending someone in their car to drive somewhere to sit in a waiting room. For those services, so there's been some great strides, and I'm hopeful that that continues.Lisa Ryan: Well, and we're also looking at the fact that many people on the planet don't think anything about a $30 or $50 copay because they got to go to the doctor, and that's just part of it. But a percentage of the population doesn't go to the doctor because of that copayment issue, so giving them the flexibility with Telehealth gives them even more access than they may have taken advantage of before.JOAN ENOCH: Exactly, and when I think about what we have done from a benefits standpoint in the last 15 years that I've been with the company. We recognize that we have a broad range of employees in our company. We've got entry-level unskilled labor. 30% of our population uses English as a second language. We work 24 hours a day now. We're not a seven-day operation; we're five days with some overtime on Saturday. But all those challenges make it harder for people to go to the doctor, and that component of what's the sweet spot, so we put things together, where we have a $10 copay to see your family doctor.Lisa Ryan: Well, so speaking of the changes over the years that you've seen, but with the all the different kinds of employees, you have their help you decide what changes you're going to make to your benefits every year.JOAN ENOCH: While I look at data now. I'm not allowed to see individual health care claims, so I don't know what prescriptions people are on or what medical diagnoses they have. But I get collective data, and I can look at the information that tells me how many people are getting preventive visits and who are not. Who is going to urgent care? Are they going to the emergency room? So we look at all of those touchpoints and try to develop the best way to encourage people to get treatment at the right time, with the right providers. We have a $10 copay for your family doctor, primary care physician, or pediatrician and a $40 copay for urgent care. There are times that that's warranted. We've also structured things where we go above and beyond what's required for 100% pay for some of those preventive services.We've got employees at all different levels of the organization. They get medical screenings from their doctor, and they order blood tests. And next thing you know, it's coded diagnostic instead of preventive, and you know they're subject to like a $400 bill well, that's ridiculous. It happens across all organizations due to coding and how hard it is to understand it. So first, we've done some things and said there's no copay for your first mammogram of the year because people are not trying to get multiple mammograms. There's no copay for your first colonoscopy because people are not trying to get multiple colonoscopies.Lisa Ryan: And just the education process because I can't tell you how many of my customers, as well as podcast guests, mentioned that employees would just go that instead of going to a regular doctor making an appointment, they go to urgent care, that is their go-to versus having the choices like Telehealth like wellness. At Lift-All, you are huge into wellness and that education. Please tell us a bit about your wellness program and what that entails for your employees.JOAN ENOCH: Well, thanks, Lisa. It is something again we're passionate about. It's part of our culture. Our journey started back in 2007, a little bit before the time that wellness programs were the thing to do. I was fortunate at the time that the President of our company, when I went in and said hey, I'd like to spend about $20,000 on doing onsite wellness screenings, and explained that we have all these people not going to the doctor. We have people going to the emergency room. If we do this onsite wellness screening, this will work so our first year. I needed to know what was going to get people to participate in screenings, so at the time, this probably sounds a bit odd, but flat-screen TVs were in. We bought 37-inch flat-screen TVs. We bought so many for each plant location, our corporate office, and our sales team. So if you participated in the onsite screening, you're in a drawing for a flat-screen TV.We had over 80% of our employees participate. I'd almost say wellness and flat-screen TVs watching TV health. It's not a great connection there. However, that was the motivation to get people in. The second year, we did T-shirts. In the third year, we did water bottles, so we wanted people to trust the system and trust the process.We learned that people weren't going to the doctor, so suddenly, once they got hooked, they said, " Wait, this is my blood pressure. This is normal. I have high cholesterol. Maybe I should talk to a doctor, and, over time, people started wanting to know their numbers because they wanted to compare year over year. So if you ask most of our employees now do you know your cholesterol level, most of them probably do because that's been part of our culture. Then over time, in addition to you trying to give trinkets, we incentivize using more of a stick approach. We charge a little more for insurance, but you get a credit if you participate in wellness, so the cost is reduced significantly. I went back, and before our conversation today, I went back and looked and said, Well, how have we done on our costs? Overall in the United States, if you look at the per capita spending on healthcare, for the last 12 years, it's gone up about 40%.In our case, our costs have gone up 18% over the previous 12 years.Well, I went back and looked and said, " Okay, over the last 12 years, when have we increased the cost that our employees are paying, and when have we decreased the price. So in those 12 years, we had only four years where we increased the cost of insurance, and when you think about how expensive insurance has been and how expensive medications have been, we had a couple of years of a 2% increase, 4% the highest was around 9.8%. But we also had five years where we were pleased to go to the employees at their annual open enrollment and say, guess what, you have no increase in your costs. No increase and the same co-pays loaded up to them, which we have a low deductible plan and even had two years where we decreased the cost.And said you're going to pay less next year, and you've had the prior year, and I know a lot of it is because we've got this wellness program in place, and we have people getting connected to a doctor.Lisa Ryan: When I think that you're doing the best, though, is your level of communication. In many organizations, the employees hear about benefits on day one. When they hear about them during the open enrollment, maybe it's time for open enrollment to fill out the paperwork. But that constant communication with your employees and even starting you know when you talked about flat-screen televisions. Because employees, when you're talking about medical, they probably didn't trust you at the beginning, so you have to come up with something creative that you spent some money on because back in the day, 37-inch flat-screen televisions were not the $287 that they are now at BestBuy.JOAN ENOCH: Now they were over $1,000 exactly. It was on. Wow, I can win a flat-screen TV.Lisa Ryan: But, after they started to see the benefits, but it's communicate, communicate, communicate. And then the little incentive, so it's not like you had to begin with flat-screen TVs and go bigger. You started big, and then you could keep the conversation going from the financial standpoint and from that knowledge. Think about the amount of pain and anguish you're saving your employees because they know their cholesterol and blood pressure, and know if they're at a problem level. And because of your wellness programs, you're avoiding many things that otherwise they may be subjected to.JOAN ENOCH: Exactly, and again, not just with the wellness program but the medical benefits aside, we've had employees who we cover PSA testing for a man with no copays. And invariably, every year, I have one or two people say, hey, I've got my PSA test, and Sure enough, I have prostate cancer, and they catch it early. And same with colon cancer. We've had a lot that was caught early.I continually say to our employees hey, I cannot prevent every accident. I cannot even prevent every illness. For some of us genetically, it will happen to us based on what we got from our parents or maybe lifestyle issues. But, if we can get there as soon as possible. Then, we can reduce the pain associated with those treatments and that recovery piece.Lisa Ryan: Well, even believe that you also provide financial incentives like non-tobacco use and talking with a health coach, so talk about some of those additional steps that are, you know, lifestyle choices.JOAN ENOCH: Sure, so with our wellness program and, again, I have a wellness committee, this is not me doing all of this. I've got champions out there that. In open enrollments and wellness meetings, they'll look around the room and say you know you're crazy if you don't participate in this. This is a good thing, not just financially, but you'll benefit from it. So our first level, you have to do a screening and complete a rapid survey. And if you do that, you get $400.Our biometric screening includes normal blood pressure, cholesterol, height, and weight, but we also cover much other bloodwork. Once you do your screening and your survey, you get a score, and if your score is 70 or below, you need to have one phone call with a health coach. That health coach they're available all different times of the day, we've got in there English speaking non, and it was speaking translators available for all of that. They'll go through your results and explain what they are, and then there's a button on the phone or your phone APP or if you're in the portal that you can click, and you can send that right to your doctor because we want the doctors to have that information.We do screen for tobacco and blood work, so if you test negative, you get $600. If you test positive, you can take a cessation class that we have people taking cessation classes to earn that money. If you need to talk with a health coach in our final tier, you get the point for that, depending on your coaching score. The last thing we do is ask people to upload one document showing that they had a preventive visit so that it can be for a mammogram. It could be your annual checkup with your doctor. Any preventive services you take a picture of that you upload, you get points, another $400. So all in all, it's 1400 dollars a year.Lisa Ryan: Well, it's so interesting with the smoking cessation because I was speaking at a conference over the weekend, and one of the people there was talking about how they were paying when you had a smoker, and they stopped smoking, then they would test them and everything they got 1500 dollars and then if they continued for a year, or something they got $3,000. But then all the nonsmokers were like, hey, why don't I get any cash, so I think that rewarding the excellent behavior like you're doing.It's so many of these things. First, you think it through, and it's a great opportunity. Then you look at its ramifications where you're rewarding the nonsmoker, to begin with, and then giving the smoker the opportunity, through the cessation program, to one day be a nonsmoker and help them for the rest of their lives.JOAN ENOCH: For those that use it, tobacco is hard to quit. Whether it's smoking or chewing, I'm perfectly fine if someone does that cessation program for three years in a row because I never know that that may be at the right moment in time. That may be just exactly what they need to quit that year.Lisa Ryan: yep, exactly. So what are some of the other needs that you see? What are some of the other things you've been doing that we haven't talked about yet?JOAN ENOCH: Well, one of the things that I've come to understand, not just for our company, but hey, the United States has an aging population. We've got all these hard-working individuals that are steady Eddie as they come to work. They're of that generation where they'll keep coming, but they're close to social security and retire. Medicare is so complicated most people don't understand there's Medicare Part A, there's a see there's a Done to sign up. If you delay your social security, what does that look like in your income? What does it look like if you have a spouse?We have an outside company that we've partnered with, and we provide that service at no cost to our employees. It's free. The name of the company is fed logic. They provide that guidance for people, so it's one phone call away you call you to schedule an appointment for you or anyone in your household, and they'll walk through all of that. It blows my mind that we have this complicated system, and people don't know what's available to them.For instance, someone can retire at 62 and draw on their spouse's social security. Then, when they're 67 or 68, they can change to their social security.Lisa Ryan: Well, well, I know, to even with Medicare as much of a pain as it is to go through, and you know, good for you for providing that information, but that is something that I've had some people that they want my employees to look at that, as a government handout just like unemployment and they don't want any part of it, because they don't understand that Medicare is

Connect with Dan Burgos:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danburgos1/Dan's free resource link: https://alphanovaconsulting.com/business-self-assessment-forms/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Dan Burgos. Dan is the founder, President, and CEO of AlphaNova Consulting. This management consulting firm helps manufacturers in various industries, including aerospace, injection molding, construction products, chemicals, fiberglass, furniture, electronics, consumer goods, etc. Dan, welcome to the show.Dan Burgos: Hi Lisa. Thank you for having me.Lisa Ryan: Dan, please share with us your journey and how you got into consulting, especially with manufacturing.Dan Burgos: It all started with my father putting those entrepreneurial seeds in my mind as I was growing up. As I was finishing high school, I aspired to become a prosecutor - a lawyer. Of course, I knew I was coming to the US being an immigrant. My aspirations for that path. Then I learned that you had to get any license for every state you moved to, which killed my aspiration. So I had to develop the next best thing, which led me to industrial engineering. It was all about solving problems and being inquisitive. That's how it all started. I went to college, and throughout my journey, I knew I wanted to help people in an entrepreneurial capacity.I didn't know-how. When I finished college, one of my first employers had consultants there. When I interacted with them, I saw the impact that they were having, and I said why I thought this might be it. My career continued, and through the years, I met other consultants. I tried to understand what they did and how they were able to impact. It wasn't until 2009 that I met someone, and I finally said yes. I'm committing to this as my career path. By that time, I already had some experience in manufacturing and remained committed, knowing that I wanted to see different industries within the manufacturing sector. I moved around in other companies from oil and gas and furniture.I worked for a medical device company, an aerospace company, and then, finally, I worked for a boutique consulting company. I wanted to learn the ropes of the business, and it was quite helpful. Eventually, in 2016, I felt that I was ready to take the leap and jump headfirst to the consulting journey. We've been in business since 2016.Lisa Ryan: What are some of the things that you focus on? When you walk in there for the first time, what's something they want to focus on? What are the initial projects that you get started with?Dan Burgos: It depends on the company and the business. Some places have different needs, so there are several areas where we help clients. We help with execution, operations, and operations management. That's what gets us in the door. It's much more tangible for manufacturers, but we look at behaviors also from leaders once we're in. Because you may have a well-oiled machine, but if the leaders, don't have the right behaviors, you may still be having challenges to succeed.We look at that and we also look at the culture that these leaders create. We help in four areas. We help with the efficiency of the operation, we help with the management of the operation, and we also help with leadership. The process for deploying or cascading the strategy and, finally, how do we turn around that culture, how do we create an identity that people can get behind and also deter the people that are poor fits. Not necessarily because it's good or bad, but when someone is a poor fit for a company, it might not be the best place for them to be effective.Lisa Ryan: We've heard it so often that people don't leave the job they leave their managers, so when you're coming in from a consulting view, what are some things you notice. I want to put this in the perspective of somebody listening to this show today - what are some of the signs that they may look for that would tell them that wow, there's a problem with my management team that we need to start addressing?Dan Burgos: Some of the indicators could be employee turnover. Many manufacturers do not have certain leadership processes that are so beneficial. I'll mention a handful. For instance, many manufacturers do not complete culture surveys or engagement surveys to know how employees feel about their management. Are they being included? Do they feel connected? Do they feel engaged and included in decisions or are the decisions made only by leaders and employees only there to provide physical labor?Also, very few manufacturers have a talent management process. They don't take a look at what high potential individuals want. We want to maintain engagement and consider the labor market's challenges today. You're best served by keeping those people engaged because those are your future leaders by the same token. How about the people that are in the middle? They need some support to rise to a higher level of performance. Lastly, what are the people in the third-string categories that are not performing but are also not a good fit, character-wise? Is there a way we can turn that around? Are those people having a negative effect on our culture that we probably are best served?When I say ours, I mean both parties, the business, and the individual by moving to a different company, which would be a better fit for them. But, unfortunately, very few manufacturers do that. So they end up with many people in that third category-creating damages within the business.Lisa Ryan: On there are so many times that you're thinking of your hourly employees, as the ones doing the grunt work that you don't even necessarily see their potential. If you bring in some kind of talent management talent, education, training, and empowering employees to learn things that maybe they weren't hired for but that's how you get that spark. You may open something in one of those employees you had no idea that they would rock in that area. It's kind of taking a chance, taking a risk, and believing in those hourly employees that sometimes managers don't give the time of day to.Dan Burgos: Let me share a recent story. One of our clients recently had departure for an employee. When I asked around how much of a contributor, were they? They said, he has potential, but we don't have an opening for him. Many manufacturing leaders feel that it has to be a promotion, and because you were smaller, there's no place for them. I counter that with that's not the only way, you can engage someone. You can give them a special project. You can put them in charge of onboarding your people. You can find what's what makes them tick and keep them engaged. Maybe they can be an assistant, they can cover for other people, and they can be cross-trained. There are so many opportunities - the list goes on - so many opportunities to engage someone to keep them interested and find something that fulfills their potential until that next opportunity comes along. We miss out on a lot of that. People move to the next company like individuals did because he was looking for a bigger challenge and their employer could not provide it.Lisa Ryan: Well, that's such a good point. it does not have to be especially if you have a relatively flat organization. It's taking a look at what you can do. Back in the day when I was an executive recruiter, if somebody was in a job for fewer than five years, you'd be like a job hopper. Now, you go on Indeed or Monster, and they are telling young people that if you want to progress in your career, you got to move to a different company about every 18 months or so, is where they're showing. Especially younger millennials and Gen Z - that's when they want to change. It's not like it has to be the next promotion. Still, maybe it's a different department, maybe it's getting involved in onboarding, training, and giving them something to let them know that you're paying attention so when other opportunities open up, they know they would be first in line. They don't have to grow their career by going somewhere else.Dan Burgos: That's exactly right. We miss out on a lot of talent within the business already. The environment is very industrialized, so they have some challenges finding people who can get accustomed to that when you have already. They're loyal. They're not going anywhere. So you want to exploit and tap into that talent, as much as possible. That's why one observation I have.Lisa Ryan: Right. It's interesting too because you talk about making things more efficient, and the labor shortage. One of the things and I've had a couple of people on my podcast talking about automation. But automation not only from being more efficient where there's a labor shortage but also the fact that a lot of that automation is going to woo people to your company - like wow that's the coolest thing I've ever seen. I want to work for you versus going into manufacturing plants and seeing equipment that's twice as old as they are. They're not going to have the interest. So there are little things that you can also do that will increase efficiency and attract new candidates to join you. Have you seen that with your customers?Dan Burgos: Absolutely. I think the culture that it's such seems to become a or has become a buzzword these days, but it's having an environment where you don't feel that you don't have that social impact. I don't know if you've experienced this, I know I have. You get to a point where Monday comes along or the next day, you have to go to your employer, and you feel I don't want you don't feel joy or pride or the desire to even walk in the door and do your job. So I think that is something that is accessible to everyone. it's not expensive it takes effort, and it takes commitment and persistence, I will say to create that environment for employees, because they spend most of their time at work won't you want to have a pleasant experience of doing that. Doing that goes so far for people, yet we feel that we miss out on creating that for employees.Lisa Ryan: Oh yeah, and it's, not to say, that it's going to be happy, happy, joy, joy all the time - we're not going to be dancing down the street, woohoo, it's time to go to work. But if we know that our boss cares about us, knows our name, knows something about us, maybe knows our kids' names, knows our interests, what lights us up in our interest within the company, and how we can grow. So you are right that all that is a conversation, a little bit of time, hardly any money hardly any effort, but some effort.Dan Burgos: That goes into them yeah hundred percent with you.Lisa Ryan: So what are some of the things you have seen, to help manufacturers become more efficient.Dan Burgos: Well, I mean there's a lot. We look for specific activities that are non-value-added so think about it. If you have to do something twice, it's important to make sure you do things right the first time. If there's something that you're repairing reworking any of those things you want to eliminate as much as you can, meaning that your processes are reliable enough that you can produce a quality product and generate complaints from your clientele. The other one is movement throughout a factory product flow it's one thing that you want to be watching for if your product flow requires the operation to have the product move back and forth throughout a factory, you're going to incur a lot of extra cost and transportation property damage possibly obsolescence and not, not to mention safety and quality right.Lisa Ryan: Right. If somebody is because we can't even see what's right in front of us many times, I mean this is the way the shop has been operating for 40 years, this is the way that the process has always been. So in addition to bringing in that neutral third party that can point out some of these things, what could a manufacturing professional do to at least start to become aware Is there something. Is there some kind of process that they can get started to see where some of that redundancy is?Dan Burgos: yeah I think everything starts with education right understand. What is value-added and wants non-value-added and all you have to do is go watch your operation once you're clear on what those things are and it's everywhere about I always say I've never walked into manufacturing business that doesn't have any of this waste. We call it a waste because it's a waste of time for employees to be searching to be walking to be repairing things throughout a factory. So the first step is to get educated go understand what is value and what is getting in the way of that value. Once you get started, identifying then, then it gets easy in terms of how do we solve for this it's probably the easiest part it's more finding it and being able to come up with solutions, but that that's where it starts That would be my first tip for listeners yeah.Lisa Ryan: When you've been doing this for a while, what are some examples that you've had with some of your customers who have looked at some of these things and improved their efficiency.Dan Burgos: yeah so One example that comes to mind is years ago I worked with this manufacturer and they were as a mattress manufacturer and their lead times, meaning their order to delivery time was about two weeks. China what's starting to get into their market Chinese manufacturers and their lead times we're about a month. However, considering the lower Labor costs that Chinese manufacturers, had they were getting more competitive because they were lower price and lead time was somewhat similar. So there's was affecting his manufacturer, so we got in there and we were able to help them catch that lead time from two weeks to three days.Dan Burgos: So imagine what that would do for the market right, you can say, well, you can go with a cheaper version that it's going to you're going to have to wait for a month, so you're gonna have to tie up a lot of working capital carry all this inventory. We can deliver it to you in three days, and then you can upsell and, of course, that was dramatic. We were able to do that without having to reduce personnel, we found ways to improve and reduce the time it took for the product to flow through the factory, without affecting quality and without reducing personnel being more efficient. That did wonders for their business they that the threat of the Chinese manufacturers went away because their value proposition was so valuable to the clients, that it was a no brainer decision at that point.Lisa Ryan: Well, I mean, that's significant, so two weeks to three days. So what do you think was the biggest time saver and when they went through their process.Dan Burgos: So there's a concept we use we call batching in which you're processing, a group of I'm going to call it parts. All you're completing each step for other tasks for all of them, one after the other. As opposed to following them with what we call a one-piece flow where you're completing all the steps for one and then you move it along. And then all the steps for the second one and move it along this is still this practice is still very commonplace in manufacturers and it creates such a difference in delivery times that it's so impactful to give you an example. I'm working with a client, and they have parts that they put in a furnace to cook the product, and they've been doing batching, so they're furnaces.One of the employees pointed out, while we didn't realize it, our furnaces or ovens have been cooking air from eight in the morning to two in the afternoon until we're done with a whole batch. We're in the process of switching to that. So they'll have a product starting to be loaded into the ovens probably around 9-10 in the morning. Subsequently, the next operation is either waiting for work because they're until they complete a batch, and then it's either that or they're completely overwhelmed with the whole batch showing up at once. So now they have to work with all of these simultaneously.Lisa Ryan: Oh, interesting, so you're saying that batching is inefficient and doing it all at once is efficient, so that goes totally against the norm of what most people think right.Dan Burgos: Absolutely, it's very counterintuitive, and I won't say that there are exceptions, there are, but in most cases, as a rule of thumb you want to default to one be slowly supposed to batching. I always tell clients this: if you were the company owner, what would you rather your employees tell you at the end of the week, "Boss, we completed the parts up to 50% in terms of processing" or would you rather say, "We shipped let's say 50% of the parts and we're working on the other, 50%." The answer is the latter because you have revenue coming when you ship 50%. Helping you process all of them to 80% does not generate any revenue. Often, that helps them click and understand that you don't want to have to process all these parts all this product as one, meaning the first one you finish has to wait until the rest of the batch is completed before it can move on to the next operation.Lisa Ryan: Well, and the other thing is that it seems that you'd be able to catch any mistakes faster. Because if one mattress comes off the line and there's a problem with it, it's better than when all the parts to make that mattress in that batch come off. They're all bad now you have more waiting time, so yeah, that is a super interesting way of looking at your business completely different from what we're used to.Dan Burgos: And that's Another point I share with clients, and I've had that happen with the mattress manufacturer, it was with a label they prefer in it, and they put them on and when the worker looked at me said, guys, these are all wrong, so they had to go back and redo all the world because they were batching at that point so there's a lot of benefits to making that transition, but, as you said right when people have been accustomed to doing it once or a certain way for a long time. It's that transition, and that's why I emphasized earlier their behaviors changing and accepting and being open to doing things a different way it's the key to being successful besides or, above and beyond the concepts themselves.Lisa Ryan: Yeah, I'd say that you have to be willing to look at every aspect of your business differently in my programs. Even when it comes to the batching versus the full product going through, is there a small place where you can start? find one area you're not going to completely transform the plant overnight, but if there's one area, you can at least put it to the test. Then you can start showing the success and then be willing to take it a little further, and a little bit further, so yeah, I think that that's a knowledge bomb kind of a drop the MIC moment so.How do you work with your clients, and if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, what's the best way for them to reach you?Dan...

Connect with Jordan Erskine:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanerskine/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to this episode of the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Jordan Erskine. Jordan is an innovative founder with 20 years of experience in the cosmetic contract manufacturing industry. Jordan co-founded Dynamic Blending. Since then, Dynamic Blending has seen over a 12,500% growth in less than five years. Jordan talks about breathing new life into a stale industry and how you can innovate within your industries. Jordan, welcome to the show.Jordan Erskine: Thank you, Lisa. It's a pleasure to be here.Lisa Ryan: Please share a bit about your background and what got you started in manufacturing and the cosmetic contract manufacturing industry.Jordan Erskine: It's a crazy story. I graduated from high school when I was 18 years old. I didn't know what I wanted to do with myself. In my neighborhood, there was a guy who started a contract manufacturing company. I didn't know what that was. When I graduated high school, he said, hey do you want to work with me? At the time, there were ten employees or fewer. It was small. I said sure because at 18 years old, I didn't have any prospects for college. I enjoyed it. I was learning how to develop cosmetics and skincare products from scratch. I learned a lot of that is chemistry and that knowledge, but it's an art form too. It was fantastic to see how some of these higher-end skincare products come to be. So I stuck with it and got my undergrad in finance. I left that company and went to another company, where we are contract manufacturing toothpaste for a large Fortune 50 global consumer goods company. We manufactured four to 5 million tubes a month of toothpaste, so it was a very fast-paced operation.I worked there for about nine years and had a lot of student loan debt. I got my MBA in international business while working there at the time. I had about $140,000 in student loan debt between my wife and me. The panic started to set in that we would never pay this off. I got this weird bug, and a light bulb went off that I just needed to start my own company. I knew how to do everything on the contract manufacturing side - from development to production to package sourcing, just everything, so that's what I did. I started putting the pieces together and met up with an old colleague who worked with the first contract manufacturer.His name is Gavin, and he went on to be an attorney. After not talking about it for about 9-10 years, we met back up. One thing led to another, and his law firm invested a little bit into Dynamic Blending, and the rest is history. We only took on about $170,000 angel investment at the beginning. To this day, we are still privately owned by Gavin and me. It's wild.Lisa Ryan: So, when you're talking about a 12,500% growth in less than five years, I'm sure that people are listening to this podcast with their ears perking up, saying, I would like to have a small percentage of that. What were some things that you did that set you apart in such a short time?Jordan Erskine: I learned from the other contract manufacturers I worked for and knowing that this is my company, I want to build it my way. One thing that was important to me was the team. I started recruiting people. I got a couple of key people who couldn't afford higher salaries because we couldn't afford them. They were subject matter experts, so we gave them equity. We gave them a percentage of equity in Dynamic Blending. That sparked an interest. Some of them worked for us for a while for free until we could start affording that. The first thing is that I knew I needed the team in place in every single area to help us grow to where we needed to be. Our chemist, our R&D director, developed the ancestry DNA solution, so he has pharmaceutical drug development and chemical development. He's our director of R&D and then our director of quality. He worked for he helped Johnson & Johnson get out of FDA issues with Tylenol.We've got people in place that are subject matter experts, so I can focus on what I need to focus on. Gavin can focus on what he needs to focus on. Many of your listeners or other manufacturers will be like, " Yeah, that's exactly right. We've learned the hard way not to put the right people in the right seats on the bus.Lisa Ryan: A couple of things come to mind. Number one, you're starting a brand-new company, and to grow it, you're giving parts of it away. That had to be a little scary but finding those right people and ensuring that you got the right people on the bus right away. So what was that process? What did you think I would have to give them a piece of my company to get these people on board?Jordan Erskine: It's common with startups. Many of these tech companies go public or get bought out. You hear 50 employees became overnight millionaires. That's also the motivation. It depends on the industry, but we didn't have the technical expertise in our specific situation. We knew we couldn't pay $150,000 a year, plus salaries for some people. We had to get creative and take a step back.I'd rather have a small piece of the biggest possible pie than own 100% of a company barely doing a million dollars. You have to realize that it's not always this situation where you do have to give up equity, but in many instances, you can also have it vested overtime right, so you're not worried about how you will perform for me.You can give them a tiny, small point of 2.25% year over year to ensure they stay with you and work toward the business. In doing so, you give them more of an ownership mentality. It is hard. I'm a serial entrepreneur mindset, so I'd rather have a lot of little pieces and help, and knowing that there are other teams within those groups helping build that company, it all falls on my shoulder, right. So that's another risk on the other end.Lisa Ryan: Well, those two words to that you said that that ownership mentality is a key. When you have people who are owners of the company, they will look at it differently because everything they do, they can potentially have a piece of it. So, for people listening to the show, maybe that looks like some profit-sharing, perhaps that looks like opening up the books. But, it is a different level of mentality because otherwise, employees think you are just shoveling dollar bills into the back of pickup trucks. So, having that ownership mentality, they can see the company's numbers and play a significant role in that.Jordan Erskine: On top of that, it looks good for the company when things get tough for the owners. We've had to do this a little bit where we might drop back our salaries by 20% for a little while to help with cash flow or onboarding some of these large clients. Like I told you, they want a net 90 net 120, so that's after delivery. When you're talking about those terms with some of our clients, and maybe similar industries, and things like that, you're fronting their whole production project for six months plus. By the time you order bottles and materials, it's 12 weeks. It comes to your facility. Then you got a manufacturer, and then it's another net 80 or net 120 payments on top of that delivery. So you're stretching out like six-eight months on some of this stuff. We can't do that with every client for small and medium-sized manufacturers. So we have to get creative. Having an ownership mentality helps.Lisa Ryan: When you're getting creative with things like bankrolling your customers and working with them to create that, what are some examples or other ideas you have brought into working with your customers?Jordan Erskine: I think I think one thing is forecasting. For the most part, it doesn't exist. A lot of these big brands we talked to have zero forecasts. But the ones that do have good predictions, it's easy for us. We've gone to the suppliers, which was never done in the past because we've never been put in these situations. Now we're trying to create longer-term like 12 to 24 months supply agreements, working through the brands, and then working with the suppliers. Often, they don't require us to put any deposit down. That helps solidify those products for that brand, and it sounds crazy. Still, again in this industry, only the big dogs have that figured out, like the Unilever's, the Johnson & Johnsons - because their teams are so big and multinational. But many of the big brands don't have good forecasting; they're flying by the seat of their pants. It sounds crazy, but if you can get them reined in then, then the supplier wants to know. They don't know. We don't know, so we're placing orders with the suppliers.They placed an order with us. We got a panic versus, hey, here are six months, here's what we can commit to. Here's what the supplier committed to that we have agreements with the client, if, maybe it's a personal guarantee or company guarantee or something like that, but there are ways that you can. It might take a little bit of risk, but you have to step outside the bounds to keep your customers happy in this day and age. To keep that supply ship flowing - you have to look at everything.Lisa Ryan: Right, well, and even taking that step back and planning what that looks like, you're almost setting a goal that when you have that in your mind, your subconscious starts to figure out how you're going to make it happen. So it's excellent from the standpoint of being able to finance it, and get it out there, that you have the numbers that are at least close, not just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks.How do you change that mentality when working with somebody who may not have ever thought about forecasting before? What are the steps to start that process?Jordan Erskine: yeah, I mean we send them like some templates, and some guides, and things like that, like what to look for. It depends on where they're selling. Some of our clients sell on Amazon, which will have a completely different product sale cycle than something sold in like Ulta, Sephora, or even Target. They're all different cycles where they are ordered. We help them. We determine where they're selling based on our knowledge and trends, and we've got a good team of project managers, supply chain professionals, and planners. That's what makes Dynamic so unique too. We didn't get into it, but we indeed are like a turnkey and beyond. We can consult all of our subject matter experts on projects that we don't even manufacture, or our quality team has consulted with some of the biggest brands that were manufactured for that you would think they've got their stuff figured out. However, they still need us to consult with them. That shows you the level of expertise we have that we're helping some of these larger pharmaceutical companies get through some of these drug processes.Lisa Ryan: Well, it sounds like you're adding a lot of value to your customers. So what do you think are some of the ways that manufacturers listening to this podcast can start to reconsider the value they're adding and add additional value to what they're doing.Jordan Erskine: A couple of things that come to mind if you dive into your customer experience, for the most part, manufacturing is pretty stale. Most manufacturing industries are contract manufacturing for cosmetics. It's pretty stiff, always done the same way. Most of our competitors want large orders. They want million unit orders. They don't care about anything else. We care; we want to build the brand. We want to help the brand succeed and be a part of it - be a partner. Diving into what your customer experience looks like will go a long way. Because when people are shopping around and researching, there are so many companies that still don't have good websites or good web presences for information. When companies are shopping around, they're doing their due diligence per se. They see a website that looks like it hasn't been updated since 1990, and then they look at this other website that may cost $20,000 to build like that difference. In many industries, many brands and companies would be like, Oh well, these people look bigger, just that whole consumer perception somehow. We've established a good web presence so that everybody can find us were a resource. We're just continually building out like education materials.Lisa Ryan: People are shopping around a lot of times. It's going to come down to price, and it's like where can I get the best price, and that's all they care about. But if they find somebody adding value who's taking the time to send them templates to create forecasts, they're working with them. They're making an actual customer experience because he had the market. It's not like the massive margins and manufacturing, so the price is undoubtedly a big part.But by the same token, if you can have reliability and trust, you can build those relationships and stop all the turnover. So from a vendor and customer standpoint, that's undoubtedly going to have a substantial bottom-line impact.Jordan Erskine: Yeah, and where's everybody up? Where's everybody at now that had the soul mentality of I has to find the cheapest I'll bet you 90% of those companies are more are scrambling right now. We even see price increases of 20 to 25% on raw materials daily. We're getting notices. We can't just take that, and add 20% on our clients' projects without them, knowing hey, my unit costs went up 75 cents. What the hell's going on. We have to explain, " Oh well, your chemical from Bulgaria that you process once a year. That mentality is starting to change with the current supply chain state. Companies like Dynamic can show that value. We can be more of an extension, so when your team is scrambling with marketing or artwork, our marketing agency can help you. That's the mentality you need to have. It's just where your customer pain points are. Maybe you have a big client that runs another product and another manufacturer with problems. You don't have that machinery, but perhaps that machine is a $250,000 investment. Well, is that worth that risk? Maybe, if you can get multi-year manufacturing agreements out of this client to switch over. You've got to get creative. You got to get innovative, and sometimes that takes a bit of risk. If you build it, you have to have the "they will come" mentality.Lisa Ryan: Exactly. If you have that type of trust, and relationship, the price increases. But we realized that right now with the craziness of the supply chain. Something happened last night that we saw this like in action. We went to a restaurant for my birthday. They gave us the menu, and we were starting to look at it, and then they came back, and they're like, oh wait, we just got a new menu, and they switched the menu, and my husband said the prices just all went up.Jordan Erskine: wow. While you're sitting there?Lisa Ryan: We were sitting there. It's a restaurant that we both love. We've been going there for years. We have a trusted relationship, and we also know that restaurants have to raise their prices to survive. So it's a good enough experience we know we're going to the food's excellent. We knew we would have a fabulous time, so it didn't matter. Going right back to what you said, when you are upfront with your vendors, when you have that trust built with them, you can, hopefully, watch the prices go up as you're sitting there. But yeah, it's a lot more understandable when it does that.Jordan Erskine: I think one other thing too is just transparency. I mean, people love transparency. It sounds crazy, but I mean not to keep beating a dead horse. Still, we just talked to probably one of the biggest brands worldwide. In terms of like consumer goods, and the comment from them to us as we like you guys call us back we're like what they've been talking to other manufacturers don't even call them back, and this is a multibillion-dollar company. We're like, and this is crazy. Just call them back. So the look of that level of transparency, I think, is lost on a lot of manufacturers. That's why the contract manufacturing game has such that bad reputation for always keeping people in the dark or not being truthful. We're trying to change just by being we have nothing to lose. You're either going to want to work with us or not.We feel like we can prove to you that we are the best, and most people don't come through our facility, they would agree, so that's that mentality that you have to build towards, and have it, 24 seven year facility company.Lisa Ryan: For goodness sake, call people back. We're often making judgments about what that person wants, what that company wants. We have this massive company calling us right now, and we don't even have enough inventory, so we don't want to turn them down. Whatever those thoughts are, it's like stop thinking those thoughts and make the darn call. You've built those relationships with these large companies because you're calling them back. It's an unfortunate sentence.Jordan Erskine: It's humbling, but hopefully, we can be an example. Nobody wants to do business with anyone who feels like that. That was like the dark, or someone's something shady going on behind the back door, or something like that, and just unnecessary.Lisa Ryan: So what do you think are some of the other ways that manufacturers today can innovate in what they're doing even if they've been doing things the same way for years and years. There are some ideas that they can get started with.Jordan Erskine: One thing that people think is very expensive is robotics. There are quite a few good robotics companies that have lease options. We're going to be adding some robotics to our manufacturing lines too. Training them on different things will increase our efficiencies, obviously decrease Labor a little bit. Given the markets you're in, obviously, like California has issues with labor markets and manufacturing York-New Jersey, that will help you tell we haven't seen much. In terms of that, we're more adding it for efficiency, and some of these larger clients want to see automation. There are many ways to automate and not spend a million dollars. You can do a lease on some of these robotics. Companies will charge you per hour, like an employee. They're not even charging you if it's off during the weekend if it's running. That helps you when you're working out your piece, your colleagues, and your cost accounting would be like, Oh well, this is easy because the robot only ran for three and a half hours with this shampoo. Going back to the customer experience side, weirdly, is what many people don't have that we're building out is a custom backend. Everything doesn't have to be through text, phone, email, and things get lost in email. We have a central dashboard location where clients can log in. They can see all their invoices. They might we're going to link it to their inventory, so they can see their real-time list whenever they want. They can pay invoices and like approvals for artwork within the system. So it'll be like a full circle of quality management for the client. Things like that will simplify

Connect with Mike MurdockEmail: MDOCK50@gmail.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/golfer53/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today Mike Murdock. Mike is the President of M2 Collaborative Solutions. He has 38 plus years of manufacturing operations and vendor supplier optimization experience. In addition, he works with cross-functional teams internally and externally. Mike works directly with key strategic vendors that support their daily manufacturing needs and requirements. Mike, welcome to the show.Mike Murdock: Hey, Lisa. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of your show and share my experiences. Just briefly, for 38 plus years, I worked for General Mills. My first 27 years focused on the day-to-day manufacturing of multiple products. General Mills owns plants in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. In July, the plant I retired from generated $2.4 billion worth of revenue a year.General Mills is roughly a 17 and a half to $18 billion company, so that's a good chunk of revenue coming out of Cedar Rapids. For the last 12 years, I have had a unique role where I focused on working with our key strategic vendors that provided materials, ingredients, and services to the Cedar Rapids facility and our supply chain. I worked in North America, and I did some global initiatives that helped our supply chain with our key vendors.Lisa Ryan: I know that that vendor or supplier relationship is where you put your focus, and it also got you through some tough times and these last couple of years with the pandemic. Please share with us some examples of where you saw that partnering with the people giving you the ingredients and supplies makes a difference and creates a win-win for everybody.Mike Murdock: So, as we are all aware, our world is turned upside down. In March of 2020, the norm was no longer how the business would operate. Nobody knew how long because the pandemic was new to all of us. We didn't know what to expect. But the thing that was refreshing and encouraging for not just me but our General Mills supply chain was those key strategic vendors. I had spent years working with them to lay the foundation and build that trust in our working relationship. I wanted to have uncomfortable conversations, be very fluid, and be nonjudgmental.It allowed us to get opportunities and issues in front of us in a non-threatening way. So what took place as the pandemic started to hit in the March/April timeframe. We had these strategic vendors that I had been working with for years. They reached out to me via phone calls and emails. They let me know that General Mills is a top-three priority for them. They said we would do all we could to ensure your supply chain was not disrupted. That was very reassuring.Knowing that there were many unknowns in front of all of us now. Having that confidence and reassurance from these key vendors that we're dead in the water without their work. We can't make finished products that go out to the consumers. It allowed us to move forward with confidence, believing that we would have the materials and ingredients to make our finished product. Keep in mind that I'm talking about Cheerios, Wheaties, Lucky Charms, Betty Crocker Frosting, Betty Crocker fruit snacks, Nature Valley granola bars - I could go on and on and talk about all the different products in the General Mills portfolio.Think about how many empty shelves there were when you first went to the grocery stores early on in that pandemic. It was hard to understand, but it wasn't very long into the pandemic that some of those things you purchased regularly weren't on the shelves. They were not available.Lisa Ryan: Well, let's think about the vendors you were dealing with. It's General Mills, for goodness sake. You know they are a billion-dollar company, and they don't want to lose that business. There's still something to the relationships that you built. To get that type of loyalty, besides the fact that you are probably a big chunk of their business, what did that look like?Mike Murdock: Great question. It's just not about the annual spending; it's the relationships. I was involved with from eight to $400 million a year spent for General Mills. So that is carrying a bit of influence in weight with these folks, but, more importantly, it was how we treated each other and respected one another. We took the time to understand each other's needs and the complexities of the challenges of making that finished product.When they were providing materials, we investigated what it took for them to deliver that material or that ingredient that was so unique. We needed to be specific to our General Mills requirements. We took the time to understand what that was about and those challenges. Then we helped each other eliminate some of those frustrations, some of those things that prevented us from success. We worked on removing those things to make them more efficient in the past. More importantly, this created more capacity and made it safer for the employees. We eliminated some of those inefficient things that created stops and required people to do something that was not necessarily safe for what we wanted them to be doing. We laid that groundwork.Lisa Ryan: In a previous conversation, we talked about things like labeling. You have a company as big as General Mills saying this is how we want it. Vendors have to do it this way, no ifs and or buts about it. You took the time to see where some of those problems were with the machinery. You reviewed some of the things and took the time to understand where your vendors are coming from. I believe it also led to that loyalty, so please share that story.Mike Murdock: That was a great story. The result turned out well for General Mills and our vendors. It led into the General Mills organization, where we would track performance. It was all based on available uptime capacity for those particular lines. It was based on a hundred percent optimal capabilities of a line or system. As we looked at the labels that we're talking about has to do with Betty Crocker one pound tubs which I'm sure many people have purchased these one-pound tubs to either frost a cake or cupcakes or cookies or something. That label that goes on the outside, whether it's buttercream, vanilla chocolate, or wherever it is, has to be put on. It's a tub that comes in blank with no information on it, so you would think that's not a big deal. But keep in mind, that there are hundreds of these tubs traveling through the system in a minute. Hopefully, these labels are being picked up one at a time. It comes out of a magazine; it's wrapped around this spinning tub and glued on the bottom side. It spins, and there was a lot of frustration and many downtimes associated with that label being applied. We were losing roughly 26 hours a month in this process. Imagine one day out of your mouth. You're not making the product because you're fighting this label being put on to this tub of frosting.Fast forward. We reached out to the vendor company that provides these labels for us, started sharing some information, and talked about its concerns. We invited them to come in. Along with the equipment vendor that handled this label that was being applied, we had all kinds of resources within General Mills engineers, operators, and maintenance people involved.What it was about in the first message to everybody as we're not in this conversation to try to find somebody to blame for the poor performance. We know we've got a problem. We know we have opportunities to get better, but please understand that we are not here to point the blame. We're not here to accuse anybody of anything. We are here to gather facts and data based on information that we can track and validate.So, with that in mind, I asked everybody to leave their opinions and emotions outside the door before entering the meeting. Because we wanted it to be a very friendly data-driven conversation, we spent a day and a half talking about all the information on the equipment within the plant in Cedar Rapids and the process at this label company in Fort Worth, Texas. We invited the equipment vendor that handles the label being placed to share some of their data and information.Then we looked at the top five areas that we should focus on trying to improve, and we identified those. There was a responsibility on both sides of the table that needed to be addressed. For General Mills, we needed to invest roughly $30,000 in capital to improve the equipment that had been in place for about 15 years to update to some of the changes in technology that have taken place. We committed to that.We took a group of roughly five employees from the Cedar Rapids General Mills plants down to the label plant in Fort Worth, Texas. We looked at their process. We sat down and talked about what are the things that we were asking them to do. That makes it challenging. One of the things we learned quickly was printing on the backside of the label that had recipes and ideas of how to use frosting that had been in place for ten years. Quite honestly, nobody knew why it was there, and it didn't add any value. It did add six hours of incremental handling and processing to the label company. Imagine if you can eliminate those six hours of adding ink to the backside, waiting for that ink to dry, cure before you go back, and handle it again. That's a significant efficiency gain and a new elimination of non-value-added steps and processes that create challenges on their side of making that label. It was a considerable improvement. We also looked at the layout of the sheet of the labels made. We improved that by 7%. Out of every sheet printed and cut, we added 7% more coverage to that sheet. You're getting a better yield from that initial paper or the material you're using. You're doing it in less time, and you're gaining capacity. All of this stuff starts to be win/win scenarios, which we focused on.Lisa Ryan: When you think about something, you know when you're looking at a product, mainly a food product. I buy wine based on the pretty label, but I felt I didn't even think about it. If I'm buying frosting or if I'm buying Cheerios, you're okay buying food. That's probably the least of my attention. When it comes to that attention to detail, knowing every process area is critical. You know you're onto something when you pay attention to the minor parts of a product that have nothing to do with the taste and show those types of cost savings. There are too many times that we look at the massive parts, and where we can make a huge difference where you were making a significant difference with really a tiny part.Mike Murdock: As I mentioned initially, we were experiencing 26 plus hours a month of downtime after we completed the work. Keep in mind that this has been going on for the better part of 10 years. There was a lot of frustration from the operators, mechanics, and everything on the plant floor. We spent roughly six months working on making these changes, improving, and adding the new technology from the capital purchase. When we got done, the average monthly downtime was under one hour. So we gained a full day of production back in. As a result of that, the employees, the operators, and mechanics on the floor started believing that there was a new way to address issues going on for years. They started becoming more engaged, more involved in coming up with thoughts and ideas about what else can we do to improve our day-to-day manufacturing process.These were things when those guys woke up and put their feet on the floor in the morning. Their first thought is I have to fight eight hours of this label. Well, guess what - that was eliminated. It's no longer in front of them, and so as a result of that, the vendor we work with we were doing roughly $8 million a year worth of business with them. As I mentioned earlier, some companies do 400 to $500 million a year's worth of business at General Mills.We took that same application that we improved and learned on the Betty Crocker frosting, and we applied it to the Progressive soup label. They provided those labels and saw the same benefits.Our annual supply chain vendor award ceremony, held in our corporate office in Minneapolis, this small vendor that we're spending eight to $9 million a year with General Mills won our supply chain vendor of the year. So it was a massive win for those guys.It was 12 to 15 months later because of their willingness to collaborate with General Mills to make the process better and drive nontraditional cost savings, which saved money for both of us. Not just for General Mills, they saved money substantially on their side of it as well. They ended up tripling their business with General Mills, and within that 12 to 15-month timeframe afterward, they were doing 25 to $30 million a year in business with General Mills.So there's another payback for them being willing to collaborate with us and look for ways to optimize and improve the process.Lisa Ryan: When I think one of the things that, and not that you breezed over it, but kind of went over it quickly is the attitude of the employees. They knew they would go to work and have this frustration messing around with this machine. You took the steps you needed to work with the vendors, working with everybody to fix that. Please talk a bit about how that improved employee morale, employee engagement levels, productivity, and the things you saw from the people there.It immediately impacted the morale on the floor, and I'm going to move out of our frosting division and move up into our cereal department in Cedar Rapids. In one of the other projects that I had worked on, we saw double-digit gains in the performance of that one cereal line that we were focusing on. As a result, these were some of our most senior tenured employees in the plant. Most of them had 20 years plus experience working in that plant. When one line was chosen to be the guinea pig for this new philosophy of let's work, collaborate, and share information, thoughts, and ideas with our key suppliers and see where it will get us. That one went quick, and within a two-month timeframe, they saw about a 14% improvement on their land performance, day in and day out.Suddenly, I had people knocking on my door office door saying, are we next? How come you're not helping us? I'll help whatever you want. It became more of a pull instead of a push. When you've got the morale, and when you've got the people on the floor that have been frustrated for years, and keep in mind these employees, for the most part, they get 15-20 plus years of experience. They know quite a bit. They understand why they're successful and see why they're not successful. When something looks like help to them, they get excited and want to be a part of it. Once they believed in and trusted that there was a process for them to leverage and use to help make their day better, more efficient, and, most importantly, for all of us safer. Sign me up. Please help us. Here are some ideas and thoughts that we've been talking about for years, and nobody has listened to us. We haven't been able to get after this. Please help us figure out how to do this. So the unique thing about that was that I'm not the problem solver; I'm the person that brings all of the significant and necessary resources together, and what I do is kind of leave that conversation. It's staying focused on factual data-driven information. It doesn't become an emotional conversation because emotional emotions take you off the path and don't allow you to get to the actual root cause of what's stopping you from being successful.Lisa Ryan: Well, I know some of these, and manufacturing inherently we have an older workforce, and more tenure workforce it's been with us. Sometimes, we're afraid to bring changes to them because you know that they're going to fight, kick, and scratch, and we've been doing it this way for 40 years. But they're also the people, and I think you've demonstrated this nicely: when number one, they're involved in the process. But you can get that buy-in because you're listening to them, and you're doing it over time, and you're showing them how it's making them safer and making their lives easier. Then they become your biggest proponents of those new systems and get all the less tenured people to buy-in.Mike Murdock: They became informal leaders on the floor, and they didn't even know what they were doing. That was the beauty of it. Those people became leaders amongst their peers without even realizing what was doing it.I'll never forget one thing, and I chuckle about it often when I talk about it is out on the cereal packaging floor. Keep in mind that this person had been there 30 years, and his nickname was grumpy. That's where there may call, and I was one of the few unfortunate ones that had a pretty good relationship with him. He'd open up and talk to me, and he was on that team. He was the first to have that 14% increase in performance up in the cereal department. He became the number one advocate of the new process in that department. He made it so much easier for me to work with other people. He would sit around in the break room and talk about, hey, my day is so much better because of this, and it wasn't about what I did for them. It's what they were freed up to do to help themself so enabling them to get in front of you know key suppliers when their key resources, and talk about in great detail, and detail. I wouldn't have the experience and knowledge to talk about with those people. Because I didn't live it eight to 12 hours every day as these people have for years, and so, when you get those people together, you almost sit back. You'll allow those conversations to take place, and then you guide them on what the process will look like to make those improvements and free them up to do the things differently than they've been doing to get those positive results.The one thing that you know is important is it needs to be a win/win scenario. It has to be good for both sides. I always shared with our vendors that if it's good for one of us and not the other one, it's not good for either one of us. So it's got to be something beneficial for both sides.Lisa Ryan: So, as we get to the end of our time together, boy, time flies when you're having fun.Mike Murdock: It does.Lisa Ryan: What would be your best tip, your best idea for somebody listening to start building better relationships with their suppliers and vendors? How do you get that process started?Mike Murdock: The first thing that I'd say is you've got to take the time to get to know your vendors' capabilities on a very personal and in-depth level. I quickly found that the mentality of all the vendors is just trying to make my life miserable though they're sending us junk and everything else. Most of the time, what they're sending you is what you're asking them to provide. So instead of leveraging vendors' experience, knowledge, and expertise in the field they exist in, we want to tell them as a customer how to provide that material or that ingredient when, quite honestly, they know better than we do. So don't be afraid to expose yourself, and say listen. Here are some of...

Connect with Darrin Mitchell:Website: www.manufacturing-masters.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrin-mitchell-20ab80158/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm here today with Darrin Mitchell. Darrin has been a global manufacturer of highway equipment for the past 24 years. Last year, he developed an online training platform for manufacturing businesses to find best practices from experts worldwide. So, Darrin, welcome to the show.Darrin Mitchell: Awesome, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.Lisa Ryan: Please share with us your background and what led you to do what you're doing in manufacturing.Darrin Mitchell: We're a global manufacturer of big highway equipment. If anybody out there listening right now has ever been stuck in traffic, and you've complained that the equipment up ahead is blocking your way or making you late, I'm officially the guy to blame. We build the equipment that was building roads or in the mines or hauling agricultural products. We make big highway trailers for transporting big bulky things. We do that across North America, Australia, New Zealand Middle East, South Korea, and Europe.Lisa Ryan: And so, and why did you choose that industry? What led you into highway equipment, to begin with?Darrin Mitchell: So, 25 years ago, I met my business partner, an engineer. He said he was going to start making these highway trailers. I said, "For the love of Mary, please do not ever do that." He said no, no, I think it's a good idea. I said, "Listen, our biggest competitors are out of Ohio. They are vertically and horizontally integrated. They own their suppliers; they are next to the customers; they come and pick up the product from the factory, and they're happy with a five to 9% margin.Literally, day one - if we tried to compete from a rural and remote community, we've already lost just on the cost of getting materials to our factory. There is no hope in hell of us ever succeeding in competing against someone who has hundreds of millions of cap expending. They're fully automated. They're competing on volume and integrated into the supply chain. We'd never be able to win.Lisa Ryan: Obviously, something changed.Darrin Mitchell: I know. He went ahead and started it anyway and then told me. A few months later, he said I'm in deep, help. Oh okay. We started getting innovative immediately, understanding what we were up against—and not doing what our competitors were doing.One of the things that we did was built a lot of innovation into the product. We were able to ask for a premium. Being from a place where you're removed from your supply chain or customer base, you have to ask for a premium. We built a lot of things moving parts. The products could do things that our competitors couldn't do because they didn't have the capacity.When I meet with my competitors, they say I hate you and say, well, I, like you. Why do you hate us? They would say I hate you because it's hard to copy you. We have a massive assembly line set up in our factory, but how you've innovated with your products makes it hard to replicate that. They had an enormous assembly line, where you would put 10,000 20,000 products a year. So the first thing that we did was we innovated to make the product more valuable to the customer so that we could charge a premium.That's how we started growing the business and understanding that we didn't want to compete against the masses. So we tried to skim the cream off the top and ensure that we could show that value to the customer to charge that premium for the product. So that was the first step in what we did for the business's growth.Lisa Ryan: How did you decide what to add to your products to make them premium? Was that in researching the industry, talking to customers, etc.? How did you choose, and what would be an example of an innovation that you put in a product that your competitors couldn't duplicate.Darrin Mitchell: The quickest thing we did was we spent a lot of time sleeping on airport floors. We spent a lot of time in a very senior leadership position. We spent a lot of time with customers, so we would say what features do you like? What features don't you like? What can it do? What can I do? What could it do to make you more money? How can we become more valuable in it? We wouldn't get that feedback if we lived in a rural location. So we had to spend that time with the customer to do that. What we ended up doing is our competitors would make these big dump trailers that go up in the air, and the materials followed at the back. We put a conveyor belt in the bottom of the trailer that you could have a driver that's relatively inexperienced run it. They turn on the trailer, and it loads without going up in the air and having that threat of falling over.The addition of the moving parts was something nobody could copy because it interfered with the manufacturing process. So we got good at it, and it was a level of complexity that our competitors found it difficult to copy.Lisa Ryan: Was it also because your competitors had been doing it the same way for so long that they didn't have the flexibility you had as a newer company? Did that play anything into it?Darrin Mitchell: Most manufacturers are set up for efficiency and effectiveness. We've seen this lately with disruptions in supply chains. Everything goes well when it goes, really, really well. But, as a manufacturer, sometimes you've got things so efficient it's hard to be flexible. You always have to remember that you have to build that flexibility into your innovation, your factory, supply chain, and staff. You have to develop that flexibility. Otherwise, you can get caught flat-footed.Lisa Ryan: Absolutely. One of the things that we talked about extensively is your focus on culture. That's pretty much what you're known for in everything you do. You gave me a little teaser about what you're going to share - some ways to increase culture by 33%. Tell us more.Darrin Mitchell: I'm glad I caught your attention. I think 33% is a fascinating number because it does something to the human brain. One of the things you need to think about as a manufacturer is before you that little BS detector goes off in your head is, you need to think about 33% compared to what. I would suggest that companies out there are serious and interested in a genuine and tactical way to improve their company culture today. They should reach out to someone like Lisa Ryan.Let's get a base level of where to start because many companies don't even know where they're at today versus how they improved from where they're at. I have three tips today because we are limited on time, and we can ramble about things for hours. Divide them by ten; you've got 11.1% for each tip that you can improve your culture. Number one is in a leadership position. When you're a leader, you give up many of your rights and responsibilities. As an employee within the business and as a leader, you have to admit that you never let your team fill in the blanks. Everybody who shows up every day who's worth their salt that comes to the business believes in something beyond a paycheck. They think they're wearing a team jersey, and they're part of something. They gain additional value in their lives beyond a paycheck. Your responsibility as a leader within the business is don't let them fill in the blanks. As a leader, I mean that you always need to be front and center explaining what the future looks like and what our place is as a team. Where do we fit into that future; what is it. You never lie to people because if you do that, they'll never come back once again.You need to be honest. It would be best to give people that clear indication of the business's future and where they fit into it. I'll give you a good example. This is the bad news during covid because we always like these heroic stories of good things. But during covid, I am sick and tired of talking about it. I had 130 employees. Even the team leads were so panicked and frustrated. They were getting it from work; they were getting it from CNN, and they were getting it from their spouses. They were beyond their capacity to handle the situation. So guess who else wants me.But I gave up that right to fall into that mode when I accepted the mantle of the leadership position. So what I did was two times a week for the first eight months of the pandemic. I would break everybody into small groups, stand in front of everyone, and say, 'This is what I know. This is what's happening with the business. I understand everybody has concerns, but I guarantee that I will keep standing in front of you until we get to a better day. I will not candy coat anything in front of you, but I do know this one thing you are a world-class team acting like a world-class team today. I have the utmost respect for my coworkers who come to work every day and continue to conduct themselves.I said that twice a week for eight months. I would always give them an update. What it did, was that it reassured them that someone had the fingers on the pulse of their future. When your home life was unstable, and many of us went through that, you knew you had some stability when you came to work. Someone was thinking actively about your future and where you fit into it.The first rule would be as as a leader, you can't advocate conversation. Your job in that leadership position is to talk about the future. So how do we, as the business employees, fit into that to give people that sense of accomplishment. We tend to announce the big things and the good things all too often. You have to announce all things because, when people when you're absent, nobody fills in the space. But positive news does, so take that opportunity to be the leader they're looking for in that space.Lisa Ryan: The funny thing is that we've heard that it's almost cliche so often that people don't leave their job; they leave their boss. Companies will say, oh yeah, Joe left to go somewhere else to make more money. But, no, if Joe were happy, he would have never left. There was something about the leadership. The boss was not transparent because, like you just said, when the grapevine is going, and people don't know what's going on, they're going to make stuff up.When they're not happy thoughts, they're making up; they're justifying. They're looking at the way that leader is looking. They're looking at their expressions on their face so just that getting in front of people, knowing that your employees aren't always going to like what you have to say, but the fact that you're being straight with them twice a week for eight months. It's probably interesting as your employees were at the bar on Fridays with their buddies talking about work. Their friends are probably saying our boss. I don't even know where our boss is. He disappeared, and I don't know what's going on. You show that level of vulnerability that you're willing to be transparent with them. That communication builds those relationships. That's key.Darrin Mitchell: And I screwed up a lot of stuff too. You segued very nicely into the second point is who is the boss. We found a lot of times in our cultural development. The senior leadership of the business has a certain level of influence on the culture. Those senior leaders need to realize that managers and team leaders have a more significant impact on your culture.One of the things we did was to empower our team. An excellent example of this that I was proud of is that we would set out monthly production objectives as a team every month, and we would pick a number and say we're going to get 30 units out the door this month. If all of the employees succeeded in getting those 30 units out the door every month, high quality, with all the needs, features, and benefits that the customers were looking for, we give them a $100 bill. Now, someone could say, hey Darrin, tax issues, and I'm going to shut up. I don't care.We were very specific in what we would do. I would go to the bank and pick up a stack of hundred-dollar bills, and I would hand those to the team leads before the meeting. I never handed out a $100 bill. If we hit our objectives, the team leads would meet with their teams to say, hey, we hit our goals, and only the team lead was allowed to pass the bill and shake the hand. I was never allowed to touch that. I said, here we are, this is where we're going, and the team leads took that personally. That is a good incentive because it was more powerful than giving them a $1,000 bonus.Doing this, shaking hands, making eye contact, and saying Thank you to one of your coworkers made a difference. So this month, we turn that into a ritual. It was a very positive effect on the business.If you want to improve your culture, the second thing is to find ways to empower your team leads because they have more influence over the masses than you do in a senior leadership position. After all, they're the direct reports coming out of the business.Lisa Ryan: We talked about the difference between $1,000 and $100. When you start, people think that it's all about the money. You illustrated that so beautifully because many times say you had a great month and gave everybody $1,000. If they would be like and then next month, it goes down to 100 now you have people complaining welcome, we only got 100 this month, and it takes away the magic. It's like a $25 gas card given to somebody catching them in the act of doing something right. It will not upset anybody else because you're being recognized, so it's the smaller gifts. What even makes that you could probably have done the same thing with a $50 bill. Because it's the eye contact and the handshake and that personal connection that your leaders are your managers are showing their employees, I see you. I appreciate you. It also sounds like you're getting them to all buy into the system because you often see it all the time. Some managers are great with their people, and some just aren't. Those with the departments with the high turnover, but you're saying, well I can't get rid of them they're our highest producing department, even though they have 100% turnover. You have to get rid of those toxic managers, train them, or do something. You bring everybody into the team, have that meeting, ritualize the experience, keep it consistent, and come together in celebration. You have so many great ideas.Darrin Mitchell: And number three is the most uncomfortable thing a manufacturer will ever do. I will ask every manufacturer out there today to make a video. Last year alone, we had 6 million views on YouTube. This is how people find out who we are, why they should trust us, and why they should work with us. We use those videos - not needs, features, benefits, products. We created those videos to show who we are, and it's effortless to do business with us. And guess who the star of the videos was.Lisa Ryan: The employees.Darrin Mitchell: You got it. I would go and pluck out employees randomly from the floor. I would say you're a star, and they would go on a dare to you. You're going to be awesome. We did many fun, silly, serious, different things with the employees. In one, we filled up a trailer with water in the middle of winter. We just opened the tailgate and dumped it on one of our employees sitting in a little Mr turtle pool. We were trying to show how watertight it was. We took four of our most husky employees, and they were their wives' dresses and wigs, and we said, the new models are coming. All silly tongue-in-cheek stuff, but here's what happened. The rest of the world started saying you look like fun people to do business with. You look like you're a sincere human being.Secondly, those employees started becoming transmitters for the business, but they also took those videos home to show their children and their spouses. This is what I do every day. So now the business has become part of the family household, so mom doesn't get up at 6 am every morning to go and do something. She actually does something pretty cool because I have just seen her on this little device in my back pocket.Lisa Ryan: That's great! I talk about the power of video all the time. We're looking at such a tough labor market to attract employees. They're checking you out online, and they want to see. Do you have people who look like me? Does it look like it's a fun place to work? If you have nothing online and all you have is a bunch of negative reviews on glassdoor.com, and you've never even answered to, the chance of that employee ever even filling out an application goes down.It sounds like you're increasing your business because it looks like you're fun to do business with but just as far as a recruitment standpoint, making it easier. You think about one of your employees going home and telling their spouse, hey, you know I'm going to leave this job. I'm tired of it. They'll say, you can't leave that you're a YouTube video star.Darrin Mitchell: And when that little transmitter they were able to send that to their family and friends, and there was a particular recipe on the people I would pick for the videos. I wanted them to share that with family and friends. So I was starting to get applications from those family and friends that the video said, hey, I want to be happy like he seems to be happy. We will also give you a paycheck, train you, and do all those good things to treat you like a human.Lisa Ryan: The thing is, and it sounds like you just brought in your phone, it's not like you brought in a huge production team and did a big fancy thing. You could have. But just that when people think about the technology that we have. I just got the iPhone 13 pro, so I have more power in my hand right now than most movie theaters did ten years ago. So it's easy to do. It's just the point of doing it.Darrin Mitchell: You hit the nail on the head. Lisa, the recipe is to forget the flashy stuff. It doesn't work - it sets off the BS detector. So grab your phone and be authentic and sincere. People will share that with you.Lisa Ryan: Out of everything you've seen and done with your culture over the years, what's your favorite thing? If you were to give some advice or an idea that somebody listening today could start to implement immediately, what would that be?Darrin Mitchell: If you want the most sincere answer. The most heartfelt answer you could get from me is after 23 years, especially for the last five years. Financially, we were in pretty good shape. When you're not under duress as a manufacturer, you tend to take it out on your people. We found ourselves in an okay spot. We were in a safe place, and we set up a high school education program.I watched many of my coworkers graduate, and they would say privately to me thanks, I don't feel like a piece of shit anymore, and I would go, ah, okay. That's deep. I take so much pleasure out of thinking about those memories. I was fortunate enough. I graduated high school.To see one of my coworkers associate that with me, I feel like

Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce you to our guest today, Gerry Angeli. Gerry has been a manufacturing and supply chain executive for over 35 years, including CEO-level experience. He's had the opportunity to work all over the planet on products, ranging from high volume consumers to very custom high value-added durable goods. Gerry, welcome to the show.Gerry Angeli: Lisa, it's great to be here. I appreciate you extending the invitation to be on the podcast.Lisa Ryan: Absolutely. Please share with us your background and what led you to do what you're doing.Gerry Angeli: Well, it all started way back when I left college, and I remember the line in the interview that got me into my first job. Coming out of engineering school, the interviewer asked me what I would like. I said, look, if you're looking for a world-class designer, that's not me. But if you're looking for somebody who knows how to troubleshoot things analytically and fix stuff, and work on items associated with quality and reliability. So he stopped me when he said I get 1000 of the first kind.I get one a year of you when can you come to visit the shop and that's how it started so from then until and in the early days, people called me a factory rat. I was always in the factory, so that's how I got started in manufacturing and the supply chain. It's a virtuous profession to make things and get them out there. So throughout my career, I've been up and down the supply chain. From customer service, on the one end to procurement, on the other, it's treated me well.Lisa Ryan: Being in the supply chain these days is just a little tricky. So, what are some of the things you're seeing that your experience or seeing happening in the industry? What are some of the ideas that you have to reestablish business continuity?Gerry Angeli: Well, that's the greatest place to start. I get very vocal about what I see going on at times, and much of it has its roots back in the 1980s when just-in-time and zero inventory production started. I'll hold that thought for a second because those were all good things to do. When I came to Florida, I was recruited by a company down here in Hollywood. Shortly after that, I got an operations executive. They had manufacturing locations in various parts of the planet. They had just moved the company from another State to South Florida when I got here. As I entered, the boss said to me, "I need you to stick your nose in something for me. Everybody warned me that there are hurricanes here, and you got to have a plan if you're in manufacturing, whether it's here or anyplace else, to recover from a weather event."We didn't call it business continuity. Back then, it was disaster recovery. I stuck my nose into the topics. As I got involved with it, naturally, the first thing is power, the second thing is water. All learning associated with recovering from a hurricane or a flood or a tsunami doesn't matter. It is episodic. You learn what to do. Next time because of what's happened to you this time. So, there's no manual written. There's no checklist. There's no place you can go to say what is it the way I have to do. Can I run down this list and be safe? No. You've got to build your knowledge. And so we began doing that, and the more I got involved with it, we went through a couple of storms, where you're down for a week or two.You begin you build an encyclopedia dictionary of what to do. You'll resonate with this. One of the things that I learned early on is they always talk about power and water. Stay away from the down electrical lines. You gotta take care of the folks.They were getting ready for it, preparing for the coming storm, what happened during the storm, and what happened after the storm. The first thing you do is take care of the people. You ensure that they have enough time to get their affairs in order. That sounds a little dark, but it's true. They want to take care of their house; they want to ensure that their assets are safe, just like you do with manufacturing. The second thing is communication, consistently over-driving what's going on. Why is it happening? What's happening to you? When are we close? When are we opening all of that stuff? You have to take care of yourself first because that fosters a sense of belonging and the people. If they know or appreciate that you're taking care of them, they'll take care of you. You need your workforce with you.Lisa Ryan: Absolutely. What did this company do before you? Did they just fly by the seat of their pants then one day decide that they needed a process? Because Florida has always had storms.Gerry Angeli: Well, they remember they had just moved here to they came from apart, so we had snow days. That's no process for a day, and that was about it. You dig out from under your go back to work. But here, there's a great deal of uncertainty, but the point is this is the learnings that accrued from the topic of disaster recovery. Align themselves very well with the modern version called business continuity, and in the business, continuity lives the supply chain.Take the analysis of what you need to ensure that your supply of materials, the critical ones, to the nuts, bolts, screws, and plastic bags are tended. The biggest mistake that I see happening now is the supply chain. First, we suffered from just in time. We want everything to get here. Just in time, though, that's fine, but not all the time. There are certain things that you need a three- or four-week supply of. During hurricane season, you might not be able to get them. You must make provision for you can call it stockless production. But what are you doing to keep yourself running? If something happens to you or somebody else in Jacksonville, for example, have a storm up there, and not here, but you still can't get stuff.The second thing is, like for like. You're A-class items in your inventory. That's the uniquely your stuff - the materials that make your products your products. The things the expensive stuff come from maybe one or two places on the planet. The relationship you have with those suppliers should be different from your relationship with people who sell you the C and D items. One of the things that we learned to do is that for the objects 20 years, items make up the critical pieces you need in your processes.As the company president, I thought I made sure that I had a line with the company's president, where they came from pyramid level to pyramid level. President, the President, Vice President, the Vice Presidents, and because, because if you relegate the entire supply chain. I have nothing against the purchasing department, don't get me wrong. You have no firepower.The regular folks talking to the common folk can't get you to need something when you need it. You can't get you to deliver something when you need it, and here's the critical learning. If you do that process all the time, whether or not there's a storm or a disruption of any kind, it becomes a matter of routine.To call the president of the other company and say how things are going, you must have quarterly meetings about your A-items. The costs go up. The prices go down. Materials come in short supply. You have those dialogues routinely. When a storm happens, you can't get diesel fuel for the generator. If you call the president of that company that day when the other thousand people call that guy that day, you're just another pain.You must nurture those relationships in the supply chain all along. Let me give you an excellent example of that. I had a friend who had a business that made sub-assemblies for us down here in Fort Lauderdale. His company was up in Tallahassee, and he had the same problem. They get hit with storms. One day we talked, and he asked me about business continuity because he knew that that was a big question. He says, "what happens if there's a storm in Tallahassee. I can't get you the product you need. I said what the truth of the matter is, I can make yourself, make this assembly that you're driving to.I'll put the parts on a truck before the storm hits. You send them down here, and I could do the same thing. If the storm hits here, I can send my stuff up there, and you could make the products. A handshake came of a discussion about keeping the supply chain continuous for those critical parts during a disruption caused by weather. You have to think through that stuff you have to work on or not all the time. You have to think about those disruptions, and the same thing applies. We had another example where a truck full of assembly was in an accident. It caught on fire, and we lost two months of production and didn't know it.You know, it was the, wow, where's the truck. So you go on a magical mystery tour trying to figure out what happened to your parts. But the same things that you learn in business continuity for a storm apply there. Then the last thing I'll talk about is the competence of managing for continuity, whether it was when the pandemic hit and things started to shut down. Because the factory shut down, supplies were short because nobody was working. But then we began to run out of materials because the places where the raw materials were scarce, the disturbance, this time, no money planned for this disruption to last this long. Even in all the planning that we did, the most prolonged time that we planned for was a month. Because you figure anything that would happen short of, you know, getting a fire that burns you to the ground, you'll come back to life within a month. Several things have changed that now. One is cyber security. That's a disaster that's man-made. Somebody attacks you dropped your operation to its knees because of ransomware or just because they do nasty things.Provisions for cyber-attacks in the supply chain all businesses have to plan for.Lisa Ryan: A look at some of the things in Florida. There will be storms, and there are parts from August to November or whenever hurricane season is that you can plan to have that. Three or four extra weeks a truck is a one catching on fire is a one-time event. But how would you prepare for things like the pandemic? We have this backup at the LA ports, where people wait months and months to get their supplies. Is there anything that we could have done or that we could have? We could be doing better when the unexpected happens like it's been for the last two years.Gerry Angeli: That's a fascinating question, Lisa. It's one that I wish I had five bucks every time somebody asked me a question in the last three months. When there's a disruption, three things happen all the time. The first thing is prices go up. They never go down. If there's a drought in Brazil, prices go up tomorrow. They go up. They don't go down. Prices go up when there's a disruption. Supply uncertainty increases. Whether the tsunami in Japan took up the ice back in, I don't think it was 2010 supply uncertainty increases. Everybody who uses those supplies starts to grab at whatever that thing is, and shortages and allocations happen. It never goes the other way. I worked in the Far East and lived there as part of my career. I can tell you that the ports of LA and Long Beach are always the ones that get congested. They're the ones that always have the lineup of freighters and bankers lined up waiting to unload. Not Seattle, not Miami, Long Beach, and Los Angeles. Now, someone somewhere should be thinking about that saying in the event of his disruption, why don't we send the boats someplace else to load and unload. As simple as that, that one infuriated me. People get on TV and say, oh me, oh my, what are we going to do. Do you mean nobody thought of that?One of the things that we used to do when I was over there is call up my customers and say where you want me to send this stuff because LA and Long Beach will get back up. The other alternative is to put it on an airplane costs you a little more. You have to decide and risk analysis that says what's worse, spending a little more money or not having it. That's indecision and risk analysis, analysis but it's always the same porch. Make provision for that when there's a disruption. Those ports get disrupted. They get the lines. Then there's a Eureka someplace in the news. Why don't we send it through the Panama Canal and bring it to get it to Miami or someplace on the east coast? It costs more good example of that was the freighter that got stuck in the Suez Canal.Well yeah, after it happened, everybody said, oh me again, oh me oh my, what are we going to do? The boat was stuck for a week, so the worst that could happen is we'll be down for a week now that's not the way it works, folks. It's a chain. When that boat gets stuck, all the other ships passing through that canal have this all the other vessels have to sit and wait.At one point in time, I kept watching over that one again for the same reason, because I was learning. It's unreal for us when it comes to learning. There were 400 ships on either side of that canal waiting for the one stuck to get unstuck so that they could move on. Now each of the boats in the channel stuck. I think it had something like 20,000 containers on it. Not only were the ships not loading and unloading, but they were also sitting there idling. The containers were all in the wrong place. They weren't being loaded or unloaded on the way back around the way to a customer. They were in the wrong place, and the cascade started to happen next.Even though the boat was only stuck for a week and a half, technically, I guarantee you there'll be stuff that happens next month that someone will cite. The reason that happened is that both were stuck in the canal lesson. Well, it's the cascade. One thing starts to set up the next, and you run out of stuff. That's the work that's anathema to any manufacturing. So how did you run out, and what happened during the pandemic? We ran out of everything.Lisa Ryan: Yeah, toilet paper.Gerry Angeli: And that doesn't know the changes. That doesn't count the changes and demands that happened. So when people begin to, I don't want to say that's the wrong thing but make a run on a particular commodity. When and whether it is for paint.Think of the things, make a list of the things that come to mind the pigments for paint, chlorine, for your pool. You cited toilet paper. Products all went short all went on allocation. You can't get it, and then, when I'm the prices went up, the price goes up. Delivery uncertainty goes up allocations result. You get a disruption. Those three things are going to happen guaranteed might only last the day. In our case, we're lucky to have yours.Lisa Ryan: Right. Let's go back to the very beginning. It was interesting when you said out of all this disruption that's going on, including the pandemic and hurricanes, it comes down to people first and taking care of them. What have you seen as good examples of that or just some of your philosophies about creating that positive workplace and focusing on the employees? Employees are in short supply right now.Gerry Angeli: If you view the human resource as part of the chain, the same things are happening. You're over in short on the same day. There's a whole host of reasons beyond this podcast's scope to talk about why people are doing that. In one of the CEO roundtables that I sit on, we discussed this topic all the time because it's changing the fabric of manufacturing quite dramatically. Working from home is terrific and virtual work is excellent, but you know, unless we turn manufacturing operations in the cottage industries, you gotta go to work in the building where everybody else's get done what you need to get done.One of the most incredible things that I'd seen I saw in the forest, and I visited here when it happened there were people in the immediate amount in the primary mode when into a safety protocol. Make sure everything was super clean, the place smelled like Clorox and bleach, but there was no hesitancy on the part of the people who manage the operations to make sure they didn't do anything to worsen the situation. The place was clean and neat and tidy, and sanitary every day. What were those things they do from business continuity? When a storm happens, everybody has a job and a task. There are assignments made. Your job is this your job. One of the best practices I saw is that several of my colleagues who run operations immediately split their shifts apart. So there was a time window when the first shift would stop and then spend an hour cleaning the place before the next shift got there, so that created a two-hour window where nothing was happening. So that one could tidy up, straighten up, sanitize, leave and the next one comes in. What does that do that instills a sense that again back to the folks they care enough to make sure that I have a sanitary place to work and it's visible the value is recognizable. They got to work, and the whole place smelled like Clorox. Whatever product you use to do the cleaning but it's a tangible example for the folks that somebody cares about them.Lisa Ryan: Okay, probably if you put the numbers to it, they may have lost a little bit of production, but if they could save those people from leaving the company because they didn't feel safe, they didn't feel protected. With the great resignation going on, they could have been a big part of that and just left, so I'm it sounds like there was probably an evening out of the numbers. Where they didn't make as big of a loss as they could have by stopping production like that, what did they find?Gerry Angeli ran it at 80% capacity, but it throttled back. It does. But at the same time, their demand throttled back as well. But the most significant benefit was the operation kept running, and one of the things that I used to say is that the rest of the world knows how to do this. Still, America doesn't because we never stop, never sit that, we never take a vacation we're always working.Starting and stopping kills a manufacturing operation, unless you know how to start and stop unless you know how to wind down the operation and start the operation backup. This is what killed a plant is when you shut down a lead time. Four to eight weeks, unless you stop it.Lisa Ryan: what's an IC.Gerry Angeli: Integrated circuit.Lisa Ryan: The other thing that.Gerry Angeli: The thing that that that is also void at the moment because they can't get the raw materials and machines have been shut down for so long and then when you lose the human resource. That does it; you also lose a colleague of mine calls it the tribal knowledge. You could have all the processes procedures in the world written down and documented, and codified. But if you lose the person that knows how the whole thing goes together, you have just been disrupted in a big way.So what it does, is it establishes a continuity through that time yeah, you're not doing the tech amateur is not running at 7000 pm. It's down at 4000 pm. You're still running. You do not forget how to do anything.Lisa Ryan: So what do you so go back to what you just said with the starting and stopping kills a manufacturing plant. Unless you know how to do that, so in your

Connect with Maziar Adl: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maziaradl/.'Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Maziar Adl, Co-Founder and CTO of Gocious. This product decision analytics platform empowers better product innovation for auto, mobility, industrial equipment, and high-tech industries. He oversees the end-to-end design, implementation, and development of products. Maziar, welcome to the show.Maziar Adl: Thank you for having me.Lisa Ryan: Please share with us your background and what led you to form Gocious.Maziar Adl: My background is primarily in information management and industrial engineering. I started working as a supervisor to create a new plant after graduating from college. After that, I switched my career to information management. At that time, information management wasn't necessarily just for manufacturing, but in general. We looked at different ways of bringing platforms to diverse audiences. Eventually, I realized that the product manager's role is rising because competition is growing. Understanding what products have to offer to customers and then bringing the voice of the customer into the company.As a result, I was always interested in how we can help product managers in different industries. When this opportunity came, it was perfect because it was a chance for me to go into this new venture of explicitly providing the product management role with modernized platforms. It's specific to this role, and, in our case in Gocious, we focus mainly at the moment on manufacturing. In manufacturing and, in general, there are complex systems. This is the company that we started in 2018 in southern California. So far, we think that we're on the right track, and we're very excited about the platform we're offering. The next generation is about to come to the market. We call it the CRM, or the product roadmap management system.Lisa Ryan: So what changed with product management over the years? Why have you seen the shift to it being an integral part of manufacturing now?Maziar Adl: It's the fact that product managers now are going through changes more rapidly. The competition is fierce because of the availability of technology and software techniques to bring hardware and physical group goods to market more rapidly. To change them in the market or rapidly and keep track. We're keeping the product innovation going. Keeping up with this pace of change requires modern tools and requires specific roles. That's the challenge for product managers from our understanding.Lisa Ryan: When it comes to designing the systems, are the product managers doing their job differently? What are some of the things that you're seeing that they're adapting or adopting in their plants?Maziar Adl: If you think about it, companies now produce software as a service in software. Product managers have adopted agile technologies, and it's pretty much sinking in. They're looking at optimization, but most of these companies have adopted the process of adopting agile techniques in manufacturing. However, the software is being integrated into hardware. You can see that manufacturers are starting to think about how we capture these agile techniques to speed up and keep up the cadence of the operation? The challenge for the product manager is to keep up the communication and keep up the feedback from the different parts of the organization in a quick way and speed that up. Before manufacturing, cycles were long, but now that's also shrinking. Manufacturers have to give the product managers the tools to keep up with this communication flow.Lisa Ryan: When you're dealing with so many types of equipment and some of it is years or even decades old and trying to modernize the equipment, as well as adapting some of these new technologies, like you're talking about, how does a product manager do that? Communication is one thing but is it easy for them to get everything talking to each other. Walk us through the process of what that looks like.Maziar Adl: Product managers on their own are almost helpless, they need a lot of support from different parts of the organization, so if you think about it, a product manager can only bring products to life that the customers need if engineering can deliver them, for example, they can always move as fast as the organization can change. Giving them tools to product managers or bringing them to the new age is one thing, but this must relate to the rest of the organization. That means that the approach to product design and development should change.I'll give you an example, so in the case of automotive, if you think about cars, today more and more software is being installed on vehicles, I guess, for example, you see, you wake up, and Tesla now has downloaded a new version of their software. Your car might even start bark sounding like the bark of a dog. If you think about it, the software gives the ability for the hardware to be looked at as a platform that can change more rapidly. Using software being installed or new versions of the software being installed on it. But to design that kind of hardware, it's a different mindset historically; manufacturers didn't think of their products that way. They thought of the products as, let's say, a car, not as a platform that then later, you can rapidly change it like your laptop right.The laptop you have hardware-wise is the same laptop you had maybe a year ago, and you haven't changed it. But since then, you've installed so much software, and your laptop's going to change every day. That's how most of the manufacturers are looking at things. That means a change in design. Changing the way you approach solutions in the market and, of course, the product manager wants your organization to be in the proper mode. A product manager needs tools to communicate at that pace, so engineers know what needs to change and bring those changes on the platform more rapidly.Lisa Ryan: So it sounds like when you use the examples of the car of Tesla, in particular, but in the car industry, consumers today are looking for a lot more personalization and a lot more customization. It sounds like this is allowing product managers to bring some unique things that are more personalized to their consumers to the market.Maziar Adl: Only we give one source of truth, a platform that product managers can leverage to track changes and define the product and customize it for different markets. We call it personas or other customer needs and have a platform that can be reconfigured for these markets or personas.Lisa Ryan: So besides the auto industry, give us some other examples of your technology or how this technology is changing the industry.Maziar Adl: So, think of everything complex. By complex, I mean you have to bring different modules on parts on a platform, and you can reconfigure it for other markets and personalize them it all fits. For example, you can look at industrial machinery and consumer electronics like laptops, TV, or hi-fi systems. These are good examples, but it doesn't end there. You can also look at the equipment that requires software. For instance, IOT equipment, if you look at your home, you have smart devices that monitor or manage parts of your home like air conditioning. These all are examples of things that you can configure and repurpose for different markets. You have to bring in other parts and modules, and features together to make this physical hardware and then improve it over time.Lisa Ryan: And when you talk about a roadmap for product managers, what do you mean by that?Maziar Adl: One of the interesting things about agile, in general, is that you know agile. Most of the focus has been tactical. In other words, hey, we do two weeks, and then we move to the next increment, and we build things incrementally when manufacturing cycles are simply longer, and you have to think of your product a little bit more strategically. So, what gushes enable is strategic product planning, so what you can do is you can map the changes and these configurations or changes to your product definition over time. And map when those releases happen in the next three to say 5-10 years and make a business case of every release or the overall strategy of your product.For example, if you want to move all your manufacturing equipment, let's say in the case of cars, you want to move entirely to EV well, maybe you start by moving your vehicles or a subset of your product line to hybrid. From there, you move to EV, and little by little, you sunset your old cars to make, and your objective is to become fully sustainable or usefully sustainable energy. In those cases, you can map that strategy with Gocious' platform and continuously evolve it or improve on it as time goes by and communicate that with the rest of the organization.Lisa Ryan: And is there a way to test this out before you implement the program so you can see how it works and the different changes?Maziar Adl: Absolutely, so one of the things we do is there are two things one is using the platform itself cautious platform we allow for people to have a trial, and if the operation is a little bit bigger, we carve a test space for them to kind of experiment, but the second one is testing the ideas or the ideas that are coming in before you mark every release on the roadmap. That's in our platform, so you have an idea for a new release if you're on our platform. If you have a roadmap, you can put it in a draft mode, and then we'll discuss it with your peers or other parts of the organization. Then, when it's ready, you can publish that new roadmap or changes for the wider audience to know what's now approved or published for production in the next three to five years.Lisa Ryan: Okay, now with the way technology is going, these days, I mean three to five years is a long time. A lot of other things can change in that time too. How do you account for the potential changes in technology that may be happening?Maziar Adl: And that's precisely the crux of the issue. I think you just put your finger on it. Imagine if manufacturers need to do this, they need to look at three 5-10 year horizons because that's the cycle time to meet their objectives, or that's how long it takes for specific R&D to materialize now. As time goes by, market conditions change precisely, as you mentioned. That's a long horizon, so to keep the roadmap on track, they must continuously revisit that roadmap and make adjustments as they get more information or enrich the future roadmap. Today, you might not know what's happening five years from now, but you have a high-level idea. Two years from now, five years, four years away, or three years away, you have to evolve that with PowerPoints and spreadsheets, and then people churn, and then you don't know where that spreadsheet is anymore or trying to keep it up with many related documents. You can do this now with the technology of the day. With web two point O, you can or web 3.0 that's coming you can put it in a central place where everybody can have access remotely from anywhere in the world.Whether you're working hybrid or in different parts of the world, bring them all together, always give them the latest, and make rapid changes when necessary.Lisa Ryan: What would be an example of a before and after? What was a manufacturer doing before they put this roadmap into place? What was their process was, and what happened as a result.Maziar Adl: So let me paraphrase some of the comments from our prospects and customers. To give you an example, if you have a strategic roadmap for your product portfolio, multiple product lines come together. And you are going into a meeting with every product line product manager presenting their case. You have an executive board or a product board reviewing the products on the road maps and making sure that everything's on track. Suppose you don't have standard reporting methods if you don't have one place to put everything together and have the information at your fingertips. Then that meeting either gets concluded with not no proper decisions or some decisions will be postponed to other meetings. The other one is aligning everybody together becomes very difficult because you have to bring a lot of people together from different parts of the organization to make decisions. This is expensive, but delays in these decisions can hurt the company quite a bit.Many times we've heard that if you have, let's say quarterly meeting to review your strategic roadmap, make sure everything's on track, a lot of times, people come. But the executives asked questions, and the information was not readily available, or the information was not consistent, so team A presented it differently than team B. They're submitting different information, so the standardization of the data is not there, and then they go back and then come back again for another round after a journey. Also, because this information is not accessible from a central place or on the web remotely, then what happens is it's not like you can before the meeting. Invite everybody on the platform and say, hey, let's check everything so when we're going into this meeting, everything's ready and everything's good to go and the decisions are made, and we can bring things back on track.You can save a lot of time collectively manpower of executives or product managers, or you know executive management if you do this, which is quite expensive and quiet and delay in decisions can disrupt the production as a result. So we can start using these kinds of platforms.Lisa Ryan: And what's the best way for somebody to get started? Is there something that they're looking for, as far as an outdated process, or maybe there's something in the system that's holding up everything? What would be a sign that this would be time to develop some process like this?Maziar Adl: There are different angles. One is to imagine your portfolio manager or your product manager responsible for defining the product, making sure that you get buy-in from executives or senior leadership to execute the product, and making sure that the definition of the product is the same across the board. It would help if you had some analytics. You also need a space to define the product and then combine them to take you to executives or senior leadership to get the buy-in and communicate it across the board. It might not be an issue if you're doing this with a very small group and you're doing it on spreadsheets and PowerPoints.But if the team is a little bit larger and you have gates, you continuously have to make changes. It would help if you informed others of those changes, and these documents are all intertwined, so it's not one spreadsheet. For example, you have multiple spreadsheets that tie things together and try to keep up with the change, and you want to reduce the mistake. The platforms like this definitely will reduce the time it takes to keep up with the changes in your product roadmap. Your product definition gives you much better visualizations that help you communicate more effectively with your peers or with your Executive the products coming out. Or you believe it's right for the market to come out. Those are the main reasons you would look to leverage a platform like this in your organization.Lisa Ryan: And so, when you think about this, from a general standpoint if somebody whether or not they were using your platform or not, but they want, but a manufacturer listening today wanted to look for ways to improve the processes that they're doing in the plant, what would be your best piece of advice for them?Maziar Adl: Well, the first piece of advice is to stay competitive. Look at how you can speed up the product management planning and product strategy to ensure that the strategies are continuously aligned with the market needs, so you don't lock in something. The organization creates so much affinity around it that everybody's afraid of raising their hand, saying, hey, this is wrong. The product is not aligned with the market any longer. So you have to find ways to bring processes or tools together to bring the people together to make sure that you can continuously look at their product roadmap and make adjustments as necessary. I think the world is going in that direction. How do you with software becoming more and more relevant in hardware manufacturing? How do you bring hardware and software teams together to work in tandem? Have a nice cadence working together. How would you leverage new processes or tools to help you with bringing these groups as one team together?Lisa Ryan: If somebody would want to continue the conversation with you and learn more about the roadmap or Gocious, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you.Maziar Adl: So you can always reach me are from different channels. I'm always available on my email, of course, mazadl@gocious.com. The other one is my LinkedIn page, https://www.linkedin.com/in/maziaradl/. You can always go to our website if you generally want to reach us. We have a contact place to reach out to if you need to see our platform. We're always available. We're going to meet you in person, where you know we're going to show you a demonstration of the platform, and we'd be more than happy to answer any questions anybody might have, okay.Lisa Ryan: It has been a pleasure having you on the show, so thanks so much for joining me today.Maziar Adl: Thank you so much for having me. This was an immense pleasure.Lisa Ryan: But I'm Lisa Ryan, and this is the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. We'll see you next time.

Connect with Dawn Sipley:Email: dawn@sipleythebest.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dawnsipley/Website: https://www.sipleythebest.com/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. I'm excited to introduce our guest today, Dawn Sipley. With nearly 20 years in HR, nine of those in business ownership, Dawn understands the pressures of entrepreneurship. She began her professional career after graduating from UCF with her business degree in 2004. Since then, she has supported hundreds of companies in central Florida with their hiring needs, either as a corporate recruiter staffing company or consultant. During those years and staffing, the concept of Sipley the Best was born. Dawn, welcome to the show.Dawn Sipley: Thank you so much for having me today.Lisa Ryan: Please tell us about your background and the behind-the-scenes of why you focused your career in recruiting and staffing and doing what you're doing.Dawn Sipley: God had a funny way of bringing me to this market. I thought HR was all about onboarding and new hire paperwork, benefits, and payroll when I was younger. I had no idea. There was this whole human resources human side. I started off in the retail world slowly got into technology recruitment, which led me to the staffing world. I figured out that many people were terrible at hiring in the staffing world, which I found curious because I had a natural talent for it. That's what led me to get into consulting rather than doing it for people. I teach them how to do it and do it well.Lisa Ryan: So, what are some tips you like to share with people? As discussed before the show, job boards are dead, so people have to be more creative when recruiting. What are some of the things that you're seeing and you're helping others to do?Dawn Sipley: One big thing is pivoting their marketing messaging to attract new talent. For 70 years, marketing has been used to acquire new customers. Now it needs to be used to obtain new employees. One of the main reasons people leave a position is because they don't feel appreciated or heard. So they are highlighting employee of the month on your social media, talking about your organization's culture, and highlighting the different activities you do to connect and engage with your employees.Your younger generation of employees are looking at social media and that's how they're identifying potential employers. Using your marketing vehicle to attract new talent is an amazingly thoughtful and productive way to bring in qualified applications and resumes.Lisa Ryan: So that sounds like that may work in the corporate workplace because, of course, those people are on social media all the time. But if you're talking about manufacturing and the trades, is that working for them too?Dawn Sipley: It is. HR teams are more and more moving into a marketing role, and less of a let's just posting on the job board and wait for resumes to come in. The job boards are dead in this market. You can post, and you can boost, and you can do those things, but unfortunately, with the technology that we have, they control those algorithms. They won't put your job ad in front of eyeballs unless you're paying money. You don't have control over that, but you do have control over your Facebook, tick-tock, Twitter, Linkedin, Instagram - all of those things. Your HR department needs to have a marketing line to it.Lisa Ryan: So does this entire bringing in like a full-time social media person, or how would you do that in a way that makes the most of your time and your effort when it comes to social media? We could go down that rabbit hole and watch cat videos for the next six hours if we're so inclined.Dawn Sipley: No, you don't have to hire a full-time person. It just needs to be a fraction of what your HR department is doing one or two posts a day to engage on multiple platforms. All that's required is a place. I found the best on social media is posting inside of groups. I am in a lot of groups.I'm in an electricians group. I'm in a plumbers group. I'm in an industrial controls technicians group, and even though I don't work per se in any of those fields, one of those fields I'm able to see what my target audience is talking about, what they're complaining about, and what they're happy about.It gets me engaged with a targeted audience. Then, when I get a job opening in one of those fields, I can post it there. Since I've had an engagement with that audience already, I'm a trusted resource and not just a headhunter or a recruiter. Unfortunately, those recruiters and headhunters that are cold calling are viewed as sleazy salespeople at this point. People are tired of LinkedIn messages. They're tired of the phone calls. They want to do business with someone they've already had a previous engagement with.Lisa Ryan: So it sounds like narrowing down the groups that would be most applicable to people listening to this show because you don't want to be in 20 different groups if you're going to participate and get a flair for what's in that group. But to become a part of it, that's when you are opening the window. You're not coming across as sleazy, but you're connecting with friends.Dawn Sipley: You can also focus on geographically reached groups and not necessarily guilt that region or skill set focus, so some of those groups are national groups. Those are the things that I'm going to pull people to the state of Florida to hire for because I'm based here in Florida, even though I do national recruitment. But I'm also a part of many of my pro-community groups where I post things in there that are helpful, like good tools, interviewing tips, resume rewrite services, and different things like that.When a job opening comes up, they already know me as a trusted resource that gave them many tips and tricks. In addition, those micro-community groups are an excellent resource because you typically want the higher within 30 miles on a given location.Lisa Ryan: When it comes to the things that you are posting on social media, because if every day, you were posting, hey we're hiring, we're hiring, then people are going to take you with a grain of salt. What are you seeing successful manufacturers and other types of organizations posting that attract new candidates to them?Dawn Sipley: Stories always have a high click rate. Horror stories on you won't believe what this candidate just did, or I'm so frustrated by this; or wow, what a fantastic day, the perfect candidate came in, they did this, and this we hired them, or we offered them more money than he was asking for.Talking about negotiation on more than just salary negotiation – benefits and things like that. Some of the trends that we're seeing are advice on being an elite job seeker, not just an average job seeker. I share when I'm willing to pay more money, what am I looking for that will get that extra dollar $5 out of the corporate pocket. There are tips to where they feel like they are learning something from engagement, engaging with us, and promoting questions and things like to be asked and answered professionally.Lisa Ryan: Well, that sounds like many tactics that are good for people actively on the job search. What about those that aren't necessary but may be curious about new opportunities? What are companies doing to maybe catch their attention?Dawn Sipley: Again, it's just that organic engagement you don't have to be looking to be curious, right, and you don't have to be job seeking to want to learn how to be a suitable job seeker. The days of working for a company for 30 years, getting a pension, and retiring are gone 90% of the time, have a separation of employment from your current employer. You will leave whether it's your decision.The employers' decision or the good Lord above you're exiting at some point. So always keep that in mind and stay in tune with the job market. A happy employee to know when is a good job time to be looking when is a good time, not to be looking right now is an excellent time for job seekers in Florida, unemployment is 4.4%, which is very low.Other states are slightly higher, but it is a job seeker job market. So if you're not earning what you want to earn, now's a good time to start sniffing around and investigating and seeing who has the filter in their environment and where you could transition over to.Lisa Ryan: What resources are people not necessarily in that marketing mode or aren't used to doing this marketing? What would be a good way for them to get started?Dawn Sipley: Podcasts are a great way to start YouTube tutorials marketing 101. Companies and corporations should be looking at social media engagement. Webinars are not only for their HR team or their it team or their marketing team, but all of their employees should be soldiers to increase your sales and increase your hiring ability. They were engaged in the community that way. Otherwise, they're going to do it anyway. They might do it poorly, so investing in building your brand is essential.Lisa Ryan: So what would be some things when you talk about a personal brand? What is that? What does it look like in the marketplace?Dawn Sipley: Man, that's a huge question. So, the cliff notes version. Personal branding is knowing what and knowing what you don't know. First off, you know, everybody always tries to be bigger, better, faster than anyone else. That's not necessarily the key to being valued. Knowing a lot and good communication skills, appropriate communication, professional interactions on social media. Those are all things that build your personal brand. You're building your personal brand already, whether you know it or not. So empowering yourself in your team to create a personal brand positively is good. Employers always love someone who is quote-unquote drinking the Kool-aid right. They love their brand ambassadors that are uniquely in passionately open about loving what they do every day.If they do it for their current employer, they'll probably do it for me when I hire them and make them a happy employee.Lisa Ryan: Right, so going on the opposite of recruiting because now people who may be listening to this podcast is yeah, but I don't want my employees to keep their eyes open and be working on their personal brand because then they're going to leave me. What are companies doing when you have tried. Please share an example of when you try to define, you had the ideal candidate, but they just loved their employer so much they were unwilling to move, no matter what that employer did. Have you seen that, and what does it take to build that type of loyalty to your company?Dawn Sipley: Engagement buys loyalty. Money doesn't buy loyalty. I'm not talking about social media engagement; I'm talking about truly knowing and having a real relationship with your employees. Let's start by knowing their name and knowing their kids' names and their wives' names and when hard things happen, cover for them not, not to say that you're not going to have a private conversation on how they could have been proved that situation. Not throwing your team members under the bus just because they're out there and they're engaging, and they're looking, you made the statement.We don't want them out there, looking fantastic to be doubled up by the competition. But you also don't want them out there, looking terrible not being gobbled up by the competition. What's worse, they stay, and they have their personal brand. Look for legal, looking for your company, and that's why more and more companies have social media guidelines around what they can post and cannot post about the company and about their involvement and things like that, so acknowledging IT training on it. Doing it well will make them go away and get stolen by the competition. It'll increase your brand as long as you have that engagement out there.Lisa Ryan: What are some do's and don'ts when it comes to having those social media policies? What are companies doing to protect themselves and be open and transparent to the community?Dawn Sipley: One is to do the training, not just to let the employees know how they engage in what they do. Give them rules to play in a wide net as well. You can post this, or you can't post that having general rules of integrity and respect and professionalism. Usually, guide them because we can't monitor everything and control everything, but we can empower our folks to do the right thing. If you want them to agree with your vision or comply with it, you want them on board with your idea. You want them to share your exact image. You can't beat them into compliance. That's not going to produce the same amount of high-quality content. It will empower them and have them in alignment with your vision. It shouldn't be just a list of do's and don'ts but more "This is our culture, this is our vision, and this is how we share."Creating great original content for them to share that they would be proud to share. So, for example, if you're an employee of the month and you're highlighted on the employee website, well, then they are likely to share those amazing things with their personal network.Lisa Ryan: Okay, so that, so what so Besides that, because the employee of the month is a great way to promote and it's not necessarily the employee tooting their own Horn. They're just sharing that somebody else's tooting their Horn. What are some of the other things people like to share or are good to share from social media? Whether it be the company, giving them some guidance, or just the employee sharing on their own?Dawn Sipley: What first came to mind, for me, was a LinkedIn message that I saw the other day. A gentleman had just returned from paternity leave. He was paid this week. He had time to bond with his newborn child, and he gave a massive shout-out to his organization. He thanked them for the opportunity to be able to go home and have that that once in a lifetime experience with their newborn. Things like that, where they're so in love with the company that they want to share what it is. Doing the right thing, going above and beyond, when you don't have to. At least paternity leave is amazing. For so long, our culture is only given maternity leave. Still, fathers must bond with their children, as it is for mothers, so having healthy social policies promote a healthy society. Our employees aren't just our employees; they're moms and dads, siblings, or caretakers - so having policies that allow them to be all of those things will promote your workplace and being unique and special and engaging in a place where people want to work.Lisa Ryan: That's such a great idea for sharing the paternity leave. Again, if some other guys are looking at that going wow, I would love to have that opportunity turn into an excellent opportunity to look at that organization if they are in the same neighborhood. Are there ways that you encourage people, or maybe you're finding some people to get the process started to start the people posting so that they know what's Okay? They think about it because, in some cases, people wouldn't even think about posting that, and yet it's such a critical part of letting the world know what a fantastic benefit and what a tremendous job companies are doing.Dawn Sipley: I have a girlfriend with a selfie wall. It's a green grass wall with a neon sign that says hashtag be inspired. Every day, her employers or employees are going up to the wall taking selfies, taking pictures, doing hashtags. Once it's developed into the culture, the employees are recognized for excellent content.I'm a part of the Central Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce, and one of the things that they do in their weekly newsletter gives a shout-out to people who have shouted out to them during the week so that they will reshare. Small business owners post where they said amazing things about the Chamber, so that's just one example. If I was an employee saying, man, I love the place I work. The boss man came in today, sat down with me, and just chatted with me for 45 minutes. I got to know him better and where he's coming from and stuff like that, well then, the company would share that. It's such an honor to have Sally on our team. I appreciated spending the time with her to learn more about her family and the challenges that she's having. We're going to change the policies. She shared with me that it had been an obstacle for her to be her best, which just created this whole circle. Enthusiasm becomes contagious. You want the attention and the words of affirmation or a huge love language for many people—one of the top love languages in a free love language.Lisa Ryan: It just reminds me when employees are getting awards, and of course, there's an employee of the month, but there's also just being recognized for service, maybe for milestones for anything that you can do and to have a fight would seem to me that an easy way. This is what I do too. You have a file of just copy and paste. On Monday, I'm going to talk about Bill on Tuesday; I'm going to talk about Jane on Wednesday; I'm going to talk about Jose, whatever it is. You can start to do a media planning calendar. It's also the consistency of getting it out versus promoting 20 employees and one day and then none for the rest of the month.Dawn Sipley: You have to have a drip campaign you can't go and do a blast and expect that collapse all year, and the same goes with leadership, these companies, they have these summits and these giveaways, and they talk about leadership and rah-rah you leave all hyped up and on fire, for the company. Then you get in on Monday, and it's back to the same grind. Everything that we're told to you has been lost in the sauce, and they're not demonstrating leadership every week, every day in the ways that they treat their employees and the things they do. So it is a drip campaign of being authentic and being honest. You can't have any of that if you don't have good leadership and a healthy environment. The same goes for glassdoor and places like that. They judge employers on whether they're a good place of employment. As an HR consultant, I always look at the timelines. Because you'll notice, you'll get a few bad reviews, and then suddenly, five employees hop on there and go, oh no, this is a great place. Well, I guarantee five employees posted all on the same day were told by their boss, hey, we've got some bad reviews on glassdoor and need you to go on there.Well, the morning they're going to go on there, and they need to keep the job they just saw job last week. That all authentic drip campaign and not laugh because laughter for doing anybody can produce content. In a week and a month and have a campaign, but is it a part of the authentic culture of the organization, and can you see it across different platforms, not only on their social media but on their website on their internal communication.It is the standard held at the same place across the board.Lisa Ryan: When the other interesting

Contact Mark WhittenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-whitten-61790119/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. Our guest today is Mark Whitten. Mark is the President and CEO of Spartanburg Steel Products. Spartanburg specializes in designing, developing, and manufacturing high-quality complex metal stamping and welded assemblies, serving the automotive, heavy truck, power, lawn and garden, construction, utility, and off-road vehicle manufacturing industries.A passionate leader with 25 years of manufacturing experience leadership and strategic direction, Mark has achieved business success and transformation through engagement and collaboration. Mark, welcome to the show.Mark Whitten: Thank you for having me, Lisa. I'm glad to be here.Lisa Ryan: Mark, please share with us your background and what led you to do what you're doing right now with Spartanburg.Mark Whitten: Sure. I'm Canadian. I worked in Canada for many years before I came to Atlanta. I went to Mexico first. I started my career with General Motors Academy, a Suzuki joint venture GM plant. I did several different roles there. This was after Freightliner. Then I ended up Magna or National, a tier-one automotive supplier. I worked for Magna was seven years, and then I had the opportunity to go to Mexico as an assistant plant manager. So I moved my wife and children, and we went to Mexico. We were there for six years before returning to Canada again as a general manager for Magna. Then we came to the US in 2015. I did a short stint as a plant manager in the Cleveland area. Then I was recruited to Martin read, another Canadian automotive supplier for their Kentucky plant in Shelbyville.A few years later, I had a director of OPS role. I had the four plants under me at the time. I then had an opportunity to come to Spartanburg Steel Products as President CEO in March of 2020. It was while Covid landed - literally within weeks as I got here. We started the protocols for Covid.Lisa Ryan: Wow, isn't it funny that from now until the end of time, those of us in the know will know that anytime somebody says March of 2020, we will all go ooooh.Mark Whitten: yeah.Lisa Ryan: Absolutely. When you joined Spartanburg, what was the culture like? What were some of the things that you noticed and started to change?Mark Whitten: Well, Spartanburg is a privately held company family-owned business. They've owned the business for 40 plus years. It's a good company with good people. I think that, over time, the performance had eroded. The culture is affected when you have those situations where the company's not making money. You've got customer issues and quality issues. The culture also takes an impact there that people feel at leadership levels.My task coming in here was to grow the business back to what it once was, as a prominent BMW supplier. We're 12 miles from plant 10 Spartanburg, which is building all the X-model BMWs. We had a couple of things we needed to do to build a relationship back with customers. First, we needed to focus on the company's culture and make sure we were doing the right things to engage people. I always talk about how hearts and minds ultimately drive performance. Business results, good quality, profitability, and these things are crucial. The last two years have been a journey of doing exactly what we've coined at SSP 2.0 -Spartanburg Steel Products 2.0. And the 2.0 is, I wanted to honor 1.0. We're a company that's been around 40 years and a BMW supplier. We've had success. I didn't want to take anything away from the people that have been here for 25 plus years; I wanted to honor 1.0 as the foundation. But we ultimately focused on 2.0, which has to be the future. The world's changing, and you and I both know, Lisa, it's changing exponentially since March of 2020. Things continuously change, focusing on engaging people, giving cause and purpose, and clarity around goals. We need to provide the tools and training to the people that need it. These kinds of things have been our focus. 2.0 is all about performance. It's about engagements, about culture. It's about quality. We're building the business back. That's been the journey of the last two years.Lisa Ryan: And a lot of it is paying attention to those little things. We think that we're going to start this engagement initiative and that it's going to take all kinds of time and tons of money to do all these different surveys. But it comes down to some of the little things of just noticing trash and bathrooms, for example. What are some of the things you noticed along those lines and some of the other little things?Mark Whitten: Well, let me share a story. In my previous assignment before Spartanburg, I went to another underperforming business. It was a large million square foot plan with UAW and a thousand employees. It was in a tough spot I went there. I set up a task to focus on improving the performance and results. In my first week, I think day two, I met the leadership team. They came into the boardroom and welcomed me. The team went around the table got to know the team.I said, Let's go for a walk on the floor. Let's walk through the plant, but I intended to observe their behavior. I wanted to see how this leadership ran the bus. They are the ones I wanted to watch. I wanted to see how they behave as they walk through the facility.What I observed was that they broke every safety rule. You're supposed to have your plugs, eyeglasses, follow the walkways, cross at proper walkways, and these kinds of things. They broke all that. They were talking on our phones, cutting across aisles your plugs, their earplugs were hanging out.But the worst thing for me was that they were walking by the garbage on the floor. As we walked down the aisle, there was a pop can on the floor. They all proceeded to walk by that garbage can as I watched in horror. As I followed them, I always wanted the back. My point was to observe behavior. So, I picked up the pop can, and I continued to pick up the garbage as we walked through the plant.I didn't see them engage any employees as they walked by. There was no engagement, no high fives, and how are you? No, Hello, how's your day. Nothing. We got back to the boardroom, and we came in, and I said, you know I understand the problem in this company. They looked at me with a surprised look, like I had some ultimate wisdom. I said it's you. It's every single one of you. You are the problem. You are the reason that this business is the way it is. You allow it. You model the incorrect behavior, but you expect employees to follow the rules. You punish them for not following the Rules, yet you don't.You don't lead by example in any way, shape, or form. Even the little things - if I knew they weren't doing the little things, I was guaranteed they weren't focused on the right things and the big things. Of those 10, eight of them left the organization in short order. Two of them were passionate people who cared. They were overshadowed by the other eight. They stayed with me, and we built a new leadership team. We got great results after that. But it's the little things, as you point out, Lisa.I think a lot of your listeners and leaders have not missed this, but maybe don't give this behavior as much credit, as let's do simple things like picking up garbage and leading by example in your behavior. Every single day, how you engage people are talking to people. Listening to people, respect and dignity, walking through your shop floor - those people are out there doing the complex jobs. They're doing the tough jobs and listening to them, respecting them, hearing them out, and making sure that we're doing the things to help them be successful is critical.Things like coffee chats, one-on-ones, employee meetings, ask the President box. We used all kinds of different methods in which our employees can reach out and bring forth issues, ask questions and make sure that they've got clarity. These little things matter.And if I could just go one more point, that's the bathrooms you mentioned. As I walked through the plant in my last assignment, I went to the furthest bathroom I could find, which was an employee bathroom. I was horrified with what I saw - the door stalls were ripped off, there were no stall doors in the room where the toilets were. And there's graffiti written all over there about how much of this company sucks and things like that. So I just knew right now that the culture is what it is, but it's that because of management's behavior, bottom line.So, bathrooms matter. It's a sign of respect. You have 400 people working in your facility. You want them to come to work and be safe. You want them to be engaged. You want them to perform well. So, you have to create an environment that allows that to happen. And that's an organization focused on cleanliness with bright lights, clean bathrooms, proper facilities for lunch and eating, and things like that. That matters tremendously if you want to engage people truly.Lisa Ryan: And culture does start at the top. So, when you're walking through the plant and engaging, do you know your employees by name? Do they look at you and smile and wave? Do you give everybody a high five or at least an air high five? Or, when they're walking by, are your employees avoiding your glance because they don't know what you're going to say to them, or they don't feel seen anyway. So that level of respect of looking at your forward-facing areas in the plant - where your customers come in, or vendors come in. Do those areas have the same level of cleanliness and brightness as the employee lounge, lunchroom, and bathroom. So, a coat of paint can make a huge difference and again, you know, a couple of hundred bucks for a couple of gallons of paint, and you've just made the place brighter and shown your employees that you appreciate them.Mark Whitten: I agree. It's the broken windows theory. The broken windows theory is an interesting philosophy. For example, when you have the disorder, pick any city where you go into an area where they've got broken windows. Maybe some poverty and other things that the environment creates or allows that disorder is acceptable. The opposite is also true. When you go to a very organized, clean, safe place, people fall in line. People's behavior is dictated by the environment in which they work or live. For example, we put a tremendous amount of effort into cleaning the facility - polishing floors, putting all new LED lights in, proper walkways. We gave the operators tools because we wanted to create an environment of expectation.Here's a funny story. When we started this journey two years ago, the management team and I would go on the floor twice a week for an hour and clean. We cleaned. We got filthy, sweaty – we'd pick up garbage because I wanted the employees to see how important this truly was. I would lead that. The management team created it because we allowed it. So we're going to fix it. We would go out every week, and I tell you, you wouldn't believe the stuff we threw out. It was incredible. There was garbage that had been there for years. There was filth everywhere. We lead that transformation.One of the things that bothered me was the chairs on the floor. This is a manufacturing operation where you've got welding, stamping, and assembly. There's no place for having a chair, like a cafeteria chair out in a weld cell or those kinds of things. So I threw out 30 of them. I threw them into dumpsters, and my point was that we want our people to rest in, but we have areas that are conditioned where employees go and sit down for lunch and rest areas and breaks and the thing.But out on the shop floor, we didn't want to have chairs. What that told me is the culture of the company. For example, people were sitting around all the time. Sitting in chairs and I didn't, that's not the message you want to have for your employees or your customers. We corrected that we cleaned up where I'm driving at is. If you walk through our plan at any point in time, you won't find garbage on the floor, and you won't find chairs and floor. That's not because I'm asking for it. It's because our employees know that's the environment in which we work. They pick up the garbage. Because they know it's an expectation now and so by us leading that transformation, we still do it we go out there, we clean we do these things it's our people have changed their behavior in line with the expectations and what are the leaders have done in this business.Lisa Ryan: Now, let's back up just a little bit because you said you had when you were doing that initial walk-through, and ten leaders were walking with you and eight of them left almost immediately, and that is part of the culture, obviously part of a very toxic culture that they were not able to reduce themselves or stoop to that level to clean up garbage or whatever it was but that experience because know in an in a Market where Labor is hard enough to find the thought of losing ten managers can be terrifying but then on the tail end it also helped you to achieve your goal of what you need you need to remove those toxic people so walk us through the thought processes that they were unwilling to move ahead with and how that all transpired.Mark Whitten: Yes, so if we back up to my previous assignment, this happened in 2016. With the eight managers that left the business. I genuinely believe that you know I'm a people person and a servant leader. I put my leaders on a pedestal. I truly work to serve them to help them, but I never allow one thing. I'll never support what you use the word toxic, which is precisely that. Managers who treat people poorly and then have the foundation of dignity and respect. When you're not respectful to employees, when you talk down to employees, when you can't, when you can't model proper behavior as a leader following safety rules or engaging people.From a functional or tactical perspective, I don't care how good you are at your job. You can be great at your tactical job, but you treat people horribly. I don't care you won't work with me because those people will never gain the people's trust, and you have to have people's hearts and minds. If you want to have a culture of engagement and performance, you can browbeat people down. You can beat people down for a short time, but it never last and never works for a long time, so to your point, yes, it isn't easy. It was not something I wanted to do, but I had to do it because those leaders were toxic in the organization. And they were doing improper and incorrect things, and I couldn't allow that to go on, and that's why they had belief, and yes, you're right, especially today. It's terrifying to lead to losing leaders. Here's the difference between that toxic environment and those eight liters left. Yes, it was difficult for quite some time. You know we struggled. We had to find people, bring people up to speed, but in the end, after that hardship that we went through.The results that we got were fantastic, and we changed things with the Union. The relationship with the UAW was improved dramatically with the employees and significantly enhanced. We did employee surveys that improved. Leaders lead by example and respect people. That was the difference coming to Spartanburg. I didn't change any leaders here, so what when the difference in Spartanburg when it came in, as the senior leaders here were engaged. They cared; they just worked, maybe, didn't weren't working in the right things, per se, but they had the right DNA. They had the DNA of leadership and respect and dignity; we added we added one, moved one around, and made some minor changes, but nobody left the company, and no senior leader left the company.Lisa Ryan: If an owner or leader is considering and thinking about their management teams, and I know part of it is a gut feeling, but what are some of the ways that you determine that that manager has that DNA that if they if they're not perfect, now that at least you see the opportunity to work with them to bring out those skills to an increase their level of connection with their employees.Mark Whitten: it's a couple of things you know for me it's it's more gut, more observation, more questions, and getting to know them. You know, get there, get to know who they truly are as a person. We've used tools like disk and other assessments and things that can give us a predictor of someone's behavior as a leader, so we have some indication of their typical way or styles. But I depend far more on the person and getting to know them.Spending time with them getting even you know I go as far as getting to know their spouse in them, you know we will set up some off-sites and different things to meet the families. We can get to know each other as people and truly understand who they are, but observing how they interact with their people is one big one. Listening to how they engage with their peers listening to how they work with their employees, and observing them in their work environment so when they're in their element, and they're working and observing and seeing how they do, they listen.Do they actively participate? Do they ask questions? Do they follow up? That's a simple thing like it's going back to the simple things like following up on unemployment questions or concerns. One of the things I think it's missed so often here's my perspective: I wasn't an hourly shop floor employee as a young man. As an hourly employee, I started my first job at sterling or Freightliner trucks on the shop floor. So my perspective of leadership was to observe poor and great leaders, but I got a wide variety of leaders in my life, and both were truly valuable. I got to see all the things that you should never do and all the things that you should do. As a leader, so as an hourly employee, one of the simple things I would always ask a lot of questions just that I just that was my personality.My supervisor recombined and said, hey, you know what about this, or can you follow up and find out this for me? Oh yeah, no problem. I never got a response. He'd see me the next day. I'd wait, and when I questioned him two or three days. Oh yeah, I'll get back with you, nothing, and this went on and on and on. It drove me crazy because I thought I was here, I am an employee, and I just asked a simple question I can't get an answer to. As I progressed through my career, I realized that it's important to them when employees have a question. It's important to them that they're trying to understand as a leader, you own that when you accept a question from your employees, whatever it is. You have to follow up. As I tell my leaders, you don't have to say yes. We can say no, but you have to explain. You still owe them an explanation. We don't have to agree. We can agree to disagree. But at the end of the day, the dignity and respect foundation is following up and going back to your employees. That's another one. It gets missed often, but anyway, back to your question, observation, listening. Observing the DNA is evident if they've got the right intentions and are doing the right thing. Maybe they're struggling in some areas. They need some help. But you know, they've got the right DNA to be a leader deep down.Lisa...

Contact David GoodmanEmail: DGoodman@edenark.com,Website: https://edenark.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidegoodman1/Lisa Ryan: Hey, it's Lisa Ryan. Welcome to the Manufacturers' Network Podcast. Our guest today is David Goodman. David is the CEO of Edenark, the world's top environmental sustainability certification program for SME businesses, small and medium businesses, which are classified under a billion dollars. David, welcome to the show.David Goodman: Thank you very much for having me.Lisa Ryan: So, as we get started, please share with us a bit about your background. Why did you choose to focus on sustainability for your company?David Goodman: My career started in advertising and marketing. I spent many years in Real Estate, and I worked with a partner in the largest real estate company in the world. I ran 40 million square feet, and during that time, I spent a lot of time building energy reduction certifications like LEED or brain. A LEED-certified building is not a sustainability program, but they're building an energy reduction program, so I had that background.For the last 25 years, I've been a corporate enhancement CEO. Private equity groups will parachute me in to fix trouble companies. Having seen many companies that needed help and having this background in energy efficiency caused me to think about a way to help businesses use green or sustainability or energy efficiency in a positive way on the marketing side, not just on a positive way on the expense reduction side. That is what brought me to what we have today.Lisa Ryan: When you're thinking about the manufacturing, which is the bulk of this audience, what is it about green initiatives that can help them in their processes products and attracting people?David Goodman: First, we'll look at it from the standpoint of in effect market demand. I'm quoting organizations like Forbes Nielsen, Harvard Business Review, MIT Boston consulting group; these are not my studies; these are studies from large international organizations that are in the business of doing research and studies.We know that seven out of 10 consumers that's both B2B and B2C are looking for. We'll move their business to a certified sustainable business because they're looking for a way to do good, to find suitable corporate citizens. We know that 70% of the market out there is up for grabs. They are open to the potential of moving their business from where they are to where you are as a company. It might be something that you want to think about. We also know that the number one thing that all businesses have since the beginning of time, the number one issue that all companies have is finding a way to stand out, differentiate, and convince the consumer to buy from you versus the organization down the street. If that's the number one issue that all businesses face, we know that sustainability is the number one thing consumers are looking for and that seven out of 10 will switch business. That makes a pretty compelling point, and organizations should consider this.Lisa Ryan: What percentage would you say of sustainable businesses right now? You're looking at something that you want to stand out from the crowd, but is this being one of 100? Is it one of 1000? What are the numbers?David Goodman: That's an excellent question. We know that the big organizations, those big publicly traded organizations, the over billion-dollar organizations, have already figured this out. They already have sustainability programs; they have sustainability departments that are deeply ingrained in both sustainability and SG environmental and social governance. But SMEs, which are, as you touched on before, organizations from basically one employee to 500 employees- $1 to a billion dollars that group is today not pursuing sustainability with any significant percentage. An SME can be significantly different from its peer group by becoming certified. That leads us to the real numbers. The numbers show us that an SME that becomes certified sustainable waves that flag and says, look at me, I'm a good corporate citizen. Depending on the study, they are growing between 75% and 20 times faster than their peer group.If you at New York University, the Stern School of business does an annual study, and pre covid certified sustainable business grew about 5.6 times faster than their non-certified peers. During covid, it got up to 7.1. We're waiting for the newest data, which will probably continue that upward trend. That upward separation between the non-certified sustainable companies and the certified sustainable company they're lapping the field.Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock, is the largest asset manager in the world - $9 trillion in holdings - Larry doesn't want to work with CEOs of companies that are not certified sustainable. It's not because Larry is a tree hugger but because he knows they're leaving money on the table.So you've got these companies that if they become certified sustainable and wave a flag and say look at us, we're a good corporate citizen, good things happen on the revenue side. Good things also occur on the costs; either cost will go down, the cost of money is going to go down, being able to hire quality and hire and retain quality employees goes up. So the ability to stand out is significant.Lisa Ryan: So what are some of the things included in sustainability? I think about all right, we put up recycle bins, and we're recycling paper and cans, but starting from there to genuinely take on the certification and say we are sustainable. What are some of the most impacted by going that route?David Goodman: Let's stop for a second and talk about the word I've used a few times - certified sustainable. And let's define Certified sustainable versus just sustainable. This gets to your question. Tomorrow, an organization could bring you to know senior management or all the employees together, and it could say we're going to become a sustainable organization. Somebody could go Google a bunch of books, and they could read up on it, and they could do everything right. They would be doing good for the environment, and costs would go down. But on the revenue side of their P&L, they will not see the needle move much because over 80% of consumers, both B2B and B2C, will not believe their claims. There's been too much puffery and advertising - any toothpaste will give you the widest white. And we, as consumers, especially in the green\sustainability environment where there's so much greenwashing, which is lying or exaggerating when a company goes out and says I'm a sustainable business. If it doesn't have a third party that's a globally accepted entity that certifies or are verifies their claim, it's just not going to be recognized by the marketplace.Back to your question - your question was what about a whole bunch of things that a company can do, but the first part of the question is if a company is going to commit the time and do it for the environmental benefits\cost saving benefit. Or is the company going to do it for the market benefit, brand benefit, and, frankly, from the standpoint of government compliance and selling to other organizations. Back to what the manufacturers were talking about, they often sell their stuff to other organizations that put their product in a bigger finished well. And that end client if it is a larger company if it's a publicly-traded company and already has a sustainability program its procurement department is going to require its vendors to become sustainable food, so holding on to that business is going to be more complex and more complicated if you're not certified sustainable, i.e., proving that you're sustainable now. So back to your question, what can you do so there's all kinds of easy IE - non costly things that a company can do like a meatless Monday. A meatless Monday is where all the staff decides they're not going to go to McDonald's and have a big MAC at lunch. They're not going to eat meat.The trickledown effect on that company's carbon footprint is 10% by having a meatless Monday, so here's something that a company could do that costs the company absolutely nothing. It's also a team-building event that lowers its carbon by 10%, and it didn't cost them a shiny nickel. Then there's all the other end of the spectrum. You've got things like solar or led capital improvements. Still, we don't recommend that a company does any of that until we cover many very inexpensive, very easy, very fun things that get the team smiling. It receives the QA team saying, hey, this is fun, this is good to do.Lisa Ryan: Okay, I thought about it in 2019. I became a certified speaking professional, which differentiates me because only 17% of professional speakers have it. I also know that it was a five-year process to get it, with money and shows, and everything, but it differentiates my business from everybody else. I also know the amount of paperwork and time it took. People who are listening might be thinking that this sounds like it's going to take a lot of time, cost a lot of money, and be a lot of paperwork.So, where does that look like? When is a company committed that we will go that route and become certified? I do like the fact that you started with it being fun.David Goodman: It has to be fun anytime you ask people to make a small change significant change. We're in January, so we're at that time when everybody goes into their gym and health club because it was just the holidays and they put on a little weight. Are they going to stay at the health Club in February? Um, maybe, maybe not. Using that analogy, if we want an organization to keep up the course, we've got to make it fun. We've got to make it affordable. We've got to make it where everybody smiles and says, hey, let's keep doing this.So back to your question, what we did was we took the world's top sustainability standard. The ISO 14,001 is bigger than all the other global programs added up and multiplied by five, it is the world's preeminent international sustainability standard, but it's a monster. It's big; it's cumbersome; it's expensive. We turned it into an SME program. It is priced and designed so that a small business can afford it. I have an automotive garage in Malaysia that is a client. If that automotive garage in Malaysia can afford it, the odds are that just about any organization can afford it. The entire program is set up to be very affordable, both in money and time.The biggest concern we get from prospects is not the cost upfront before they even know the cost. Their concern is more about oh my gosh, we're pretty busy around. Is this going to take us away from the day job? And it won't.The program's design is fast. The cost is rough - I know this will sound too good to be accurate, but roughly 5% of the historical cost is a very affordable program. We're very fast, the companies like it.Lisa Ryan: What are some of the things that you look at when they're going through the certification process.David Goodman: The listeners aren't going to see this, but I'm going to show it to you what I do. I send every new client a sheet with roughly 50 no-cost/low-cost ideas. I asked them to take two markers like the yellow and green color, and with one of the markers, I asked him to mark the things they had already done. Oh, my gosh yeah, we've already got recycle bins. Yeah, we already started putting LEDs in when our regular lights burned out. Then, with the other marker, markdown some things they like to do. So that becomes, In effect, the starting point for our discussion.I give them these ideas of meatless Monday - things that aren't going to cost them anything. Often things that when they look at the list, it'll prompt them to remember, oh my gosh, yes, we've already started a bunch of this stuff.We call it our foundation. We can start laying out what we're going to do this year and what we will do next year. We work on two or three projects this year that are easy again fun getting everybody smiling and saying, oh, you know what, that wasn't so bad after all, and so they come back next year, and we do more.Lisa Ryan: And one of the things when it comes to workplace culture is that we want to find, to keep the good people that we have in many cases, they want to be part of something bigger than them, and this sounds like a sustainability issue. This project sounds like a great way to do that. What do your customers do to get their employees involved in this process and get their ideas?David Goodman: Let's touch on what you were saying. At the beginning of this, at this point, in terms of hiring and retaining employees. Again, a study that we didn't do. Hewlett Packard did this study, and other organizations have done similar studies. Roughly 50% of employees do not want to work for a company that is not certified sustainable or does not have sustainability as part of its core DNA.Now, does that mean that they won't take the job? No, they may take the job, but there'll be looking to move on. Also, they will accept less money to work for a sustainable company. If I'm an organization looking to find employees and I am not certified sustainable, I'm fishing in a pond with about 50% of the fish. If I am certified sustainable, I'm fishing it with all the fish. So I'm going to be able to catch more. Keep more. And work less hard to get them and keep them.Now back to your other point about what organizations have done. First, there is the point of getting them involved. So we form a green team. A green team usually has a representative from different departments - somebody that raises their hand says, yeah, I'd like to be part of this. That green team leads the effort and goes through that report that I was talking about, and comes up with recommendations to take the management and get buy-in. But then, in terms of action items, we have many companies doing the meatless Monday that I talked about. We have many companies expanding their led retrofit that they had already started. We have many companies doing Community programs because sustainability is not just about building-related things like energy reduction; sustainability is about people. It's also about all the stakeholders, which would include the Community.There are Community-related things. There are outreach things. There are procurement things reaching out to vendors. So you can have a company that would take all its plastic cups in and plates and transition that into regular plates or things like Bamboo, which grow fast.There are so many different ideas and programs that are not costly. For example, some companies put in electric chargers for electric cars. That's great, but you don't have to go that far. You can do little things and have everybody pitch in.Lisa Ryan: And what are, as far as getting the word out because this also sounds like an excellent opportunity for PR and just letting the Community know what you're doing? How important and how proud you are to have certification? Is that something that you also help people with, or are they hiring a firm on their own? What are they doing as they're going through the process? Then, once they get the certification.David Goodman: So we have published a guide, and the guide lists eight things that we recommend. Companies, think about consider and, in effect, ask for when they are pursuing a sustainability Program. One of those eight things is that your sustainability vendor provider consultant has its program. The marketing of your pursuit and attainment of your certification is critical to your question to get the word out.Let's talk about scheduling. Let's say that you and I signed an agreement today. Today, we signed a contract for you to be my client to start the sustainability Program. Tomorrow, before we start on that list, I will show you all those ideas before talking about the green team or anything to do with the actual work. Tomorrow, the first thing we will work on is a press release. That press release will talk about your company ABC corporation has decided to pursue becoming a certified sustainable business. That will go out on all of your media. That will go out on all my media. My media touches about 2.5 million. Then it is repeated every month, so we start getting the market excitement the buzz.People would get in the company. Get phone calls from their vendors, from their clients, from their friends - hey, what's going on over there? It looks like you guys are doing something sounds neat. So we start that promotion of the pursuit of the certification before we even start working on the certification. Then every time there is an action event, we apply. They got certified. They started, formed the green team, and started working on the projects - that becomes a talking point in the furtherance of that messaging. So that goes out again to wave the flag and say, look at us, we're a good corporate citizen, we're doing good.Lisa Ryan: And if somebody is thinking about this, what would be your best tip for them to get started?David Goodman: Well, my best tip would be to look at that published document that talks about those eight points because let's say to your point, somebody says, you know yeah I've heard about this, maybe we should check into it. But where do we start? What should we look for in a program? There are all kinds of different organizations out there saying they got good programs like in everything in life.What should we seek, in terms of those critical things that will make this work for us and be and end up with you know the best we can, we can achieve.If you read that article and people could send it, I'll give you my email and all that people could send. So I could provide them with that information, and they just read that article. So that article is a good guide in terms of what they should look for and how they can make their own decisions if they agree with those eight points or not, awesome.Lisa Ryan: Well, as we get to the end of our time together, if somebody did want to connect with you and learn more, tell us first, how's the best way for them to do that? Also, please share how your process works when you work with a client.David Goodman: So the company website is Edenark.com. If they go to that and they'll see, just like in all websites, there's a contact us section, where you can just put in your name and send us a note. If they wanted to contact me directly, DGoodman@eadenark.com, I would then send them that article. It's a PowerPoint presentation that they can review, and they can then come out of that and decide if this is something they want more information on.So, to your question about okay, well watch the process, we would talk. We would discuss what their goals are. We would then put together an agreement, and then, once that agreement was signed, we would start that promotion and get that going. So, we get the effect and market excitement, i.e., revenue potential, before...