Reshaping Education - Online Education, Cohort-based Courses, Bootcamps, and More

"There were no online courses. Now, you have so many things that you CAN do. Like, think about it. We're doing an interview. This wouldn't have happened in 2006.  We wouldn't have even connected. So utilize what you have. Gain skills. Be smart. So that when things do recover, you're okay. "- Jonaed Iqbal, Founder & CEO of NoDegree.comJonaed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonaedNoDegree: https://www.nodegree.com/Virtually: https://tryvirtually.com/

NOTE: The following transcript was AI-generated and likely contains many errors. App Academy (Kush Patel)Kush: [00:00:00] Five hours on top of that, and you'd be putting in close to a hundred hours a week I mean, I literally dreamed in code.  it was wild. I never thought anything like that could happen [00:00:08][00:00:08][00:00:08]Ish: [00:00:08] What's up everybody? My name is Ish and I am the founder of virtually, and this is the virtually podcast where we discuss everything online education, including higher ed, online trade schools, bootcamps, ISA, , and so much more. . [00:00:22]This week's conversation was with kush patel We talked about the founding of app Academy, which may very well go down in history as a major turning point for education. Specifically, we talked about the very first income share agreement that hit the mass markets and kickstarted the coding bootcamp revolution. This conversation was absolutely fascinating and i hope you enjoy it as much as i did  [00:00:46]Hey, everybody.  My name is Ish and I'm the founder and CEO of virtually, and I'm joined today by Kush Patel, the founder and CEO of app Academy.[00:00:55] Kush, would you be able to introduce yourself real quick.[00:00:59] Kush: [00:00:59] Hey folks. I'm, I'm happy to join the program today. I, I've been running app Academy for the past almost eight years now. And, yeah, I hope to be able to share, some, some insights about the bootcamp marketing software during the market.[00:01:15] Ish: [00:01:15] Yeah, that sounds exciting. And we're going to get into app Academy a lot more, to actually start us off. I think for helpful context for the audience, today the date is April 9th, and we are very much in the thick of things when it comes to the coronavirus and the quarantine thing.[00:01:30] And so that is going to be a big kind of focus and kind of topic for us to discuss, especially about higher ed bootcamps and the implications of all these different programs moving forward, especially given the fact that 10 million Americans have filed for unemployment in the month of March alone. and we're all, we're all going to get to that, but right now I would love to go back to June, 2008 so at June, 2008, I believe at this point, you were in Mumbai, India, is that correct?[00:01:57] Kush: [00:01:57] Yes, correct.[00:01:58] Ish: [00:01:58] Okay. So could you tell us what you were doing there? Wow.[00:02:02] Kush: [00:02:02] Yeah, so that was actually, There was an internship that I had a junior year of college. those may, that was a hedge fund job. So I was, I was doing like, multi-strategy value investing. So, investing across all different kinds of asset classes, mostly equities, across a broad, different portfolio of, of, of, industries. I focused on real estate, financial, so banks mostly. but, yeah, well, looked at a lot of different kinds of companies. But, yeah, that was, that was my first, I kind of had edge fund internship and, and, and, got me into the hedge fund industry. So ultimately ended up joining that company after college as well.[00:02:37] But, 2008 was a very exciting time to be, in the, in the equities markets. the  2008 great recession, was, was kind of unfolding. you know, as, as that internship was, was happening, that, it, you know, to have a front row seat for, you know, to that, to, to, to have that be the, they kind of come back down context for this.[00:02:55]you know, markets, education for me was, this was pretty exciting.[00:03:00] Ish: [00:03:00] no, totally. And again, it's interesting to reflect on the 2008 crisis and kind of all the implications that had for education and then also come and look at, you know, the current crisis and what the implications are there. But I'm really quick, curious about, I guess. How did your experience in Mumbai kind of shape you?[00:03:17] What were the big learnings and how would that ultimately lead you to start app Academy?[00:03:23] Kush: [00:03:23] Sure. So, I've learned, I learned a ton, at that, at that job. So a lot of it was, I had the chance to sit down with, with CEOs, all day long and ask them questions about how, you know, they, they ran their business, how they saw the future outlook, how, you know, they were positioning themselves, et cetera.[00:03:38]and, and really getting kind of in the . Into the weeds of it. So, from that angle, you know, I think that was kind of my crash course MBA, to some, to some extent. I also had a chance to sit on the board of some of some public companies there and, and see that kind of in the, the, the, you know, kind of from a firsthand point of view how boards should be run, what could go wrong, how to, all the, all the kind of, Background stuff that you never really read in the business school textbooks, if you will. So, that, that was a great learning opportunity for me. I think also just, being in that, that, you know, fast forwarding a little bit to, to, you know, after college when I was doing that full time, Seeing all the opportunity that was there, both in the emerging markets.[00:04:17] So it was, I was in India goes mate, this huge opportunity, and this was before the second wave of tech had really taken off there. So before the web, I guess two or 3.0 you can call it really, really took off there. So, so a lot of low home recruits, one of opportunities are there, but, but also got a, got a chance to see, kind of the ways that entrepreneurs would go and tackle booze, tackle those.[00:04:39]opportunities very differently. and then folks kind of start to build a business in the us, but, still very, realistic to be able to start a company there, which somehow made it real in my mind. So I, I, you know, I think it was always this thing that I thought, Oh, I know, I don't really understand how a person could start a company.[00:04:56] Like, it seems like this big, this huge undertaking, but, it's certainly become a lot, a lot realer to me. And, and, I think that's where also that pretty excited about starting my own thing.[00:05:06] Ish: [00:05:06] Yeah. And so while this was going on, were you thinking that, Hey, after this I want to start a company, or do you just kind of stumble across it.[00:05:13] Kush: [00:05:13] Yeah. So I think I kind of developed that desire, to some extent while I was on the job. So I think, you know, meeting all those CEOs and getting a sense of, you know, what was actually involved in it. You know, company building was a big piece of it. it was that I was lucky enough to be born into a family where my dad, was, was an entrepreneur.[00:05:31] So he worked as an engineer for a couple of decades and then he went out and kind of, you know, hung up his own shingle, you know, starting a company. So, having that partner center there as a child, also was very helpful and made it, and also, gave me the support of my parents in making this leap, which is a big thing that I, that I don't take for granted.[00:05:51] Ish: [00:05:51] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I know, I know in our last conversation you said you were feeling homesick, and so I believe the year is 2012 that you decide to return to the United States. Is that correct?[00:06:02] Kush: [00:06:02] Yeah. I think it was basically ended cause we haven't like just the beginning of 2012. Yeah. So at that point I was starting to, you know, my friends, family, everybody I knew was halfway across the world. ...

NOTE: The following is an AI-powered transcription of Justin and I's conversation. It likely contains many errors:GetChoGrindUp (Justin Nguyen) InterviewIsh-track: [00:00:00] What's up everybody? My name is Ish and I am the founder of virtually, and this is the virtually podcast where we discuss everything online education, including higher ed, online trade schools, bootcamps, ISA, , and so much more. [00:00:14]This week's conversation is with Justin Nguyen of GetChoGrindUp. We talk about COVID-19 and its effect on teachers, students, and higher ed. Justin gives some great advice on what you should do if you're a student during this crisis. I hope you enjoy.[00:00:31]Ish: [00:00:31] Hi, everyone. Uh, my name is Ish the founder and CEO of virtually, and today I'm joined by Justin Nguyen of GetChoGrindUp justin, do you want to introduce yourself.[00:00:41] Justin: [00:00:41] Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me on. So my name is Justin N. I'm the CEO of GetChoGrindUp. And basically our goal I get your grind up is really to share to Chicos to college and we can dive a little bit more about in into that. Cause I know the whole topic of today is going to be about higher ed and everything like that.[00:00:56] So really looking forward to that. But I guess the other side of thing that I do is lead to consulting as I've built up a huge following on that platform where I'm getting like 200,000 views every single month off of student. Uh, content, basically. So that's sort of what's fueled ghetto grind up and it's, it's been crazy to just to see the reactions of other people around the world, um, when it comes to student voices and everything like that.[00:01:18] Ish: [00:01:18] awesome. And I definitely want to talk about get your grind up, and I think it's going to have a huge role to play in terms of like. What is the world going to look like after this and for context right now, as we're recording this, it is in the midst of the covert 19 epidemic. And to start us off, the first thing I wanted to go through was a quick timeline.[00:01:38] Of everything that's kind of happened with COBIT, where we are now, and the implications specifically for education. I know Justin, you're in, you're in the field of education. Myself and my company, we're also in the field of education, so this has a huge kind of impact on our industries, and so I kind of want to discuss those implications, but real quick, let me let, let's start off with the timeline and kind of everything that's happened so far.[00:02:01] So I was doing some research and New York times has this incredible article where it just goes through. The timeline of everything that's happened with coven 19 all starting with December 31st it's kinda crazy. December 31st is kind of the first milestone that they have, and that is where dozens of cases are discovered.[00:02:16] And Wu Han, January 11th, first known death of coven, 19 January 20th first confirmed case in the United States, January 30th, uh,[00:02:27][00:02:27] who, who declares a global health emergency.[00:02:33][00:02:33] Yeah. By February 23rd there's a huge surge of cases in Italy. February 29th first U S death March or March 13th is when president Trump declares a national state of emergency for United States, and then March 15th to 30th is quite a blur.[00:02:48] Like a lot of different things happens. There's mass lockdowns all around the world. Shutdown of nonessential businesses, school closures, layoffs, and this kind of idea of social distancing really takes off. And today, April 6th, we're still not at the peak. Uh, luckily quarantining is, it's shown to be effective.[00:03:08]Um, you know, schools have been closed. Uh, and you know, everybody's working remotely and it seems like some regions are kind of like flattening out. So there's some of the quarantine efforts are really working, but a lot of places have not reached their peak and still won't for another one to two months.[00:03:23] So now I kind of want to shift gears. I'm talking about the education side of things, and so my sister, she's, she's a junior at the university of Michigan. She left to go back to school after spring break ended March, March 7th I believe. And just about a week and a half later, she was back. Uh, back home given that schools had closed.[00:03:43] And so as you being somebody who works very closely with students, especially college age students, what are you hearing from them? What, what is going on from their point of view.[00:03:55] Justin-: [00:03:55] So with students, they're really scared. Um, because I've seen, I mean, a few students have reached out to me saying, Hey, Justin, uh, how would you go about the whole covert thing that's going on right now?[00:04:05] Because I had an internship that was set for the summer, but now they just retracted it and I'm not necessarily doing that internship anymore, or they're really in this. Space of, I don't even know my internship is going to happen, and it's been really crazy to look at it from my perspective because I'm not necessarily a student anymore, but I still feel empathy for them because it's like.[00:04:24] I couldn't imagine that you worked so hard throughout the year, right? To get that internship at this great company, and then all of a sudden because of things that aren't really in your control, you can't go to that internship anymore. It's just been canceled for no reason. So it's been, it's been wild to hear some of the stories.[00:04:40] I've heard people that just got their internship cut. I've heard. People that are especially like international students are really effected by this whole thing. Um, I know. So I hopped on a call with someone and she's really struggling to find that internship over the summer because of her international status.[00:04:54] And it's been really interesting. But what I can say is there is a light in this sort of whole coven 19 thing for students, and if you know how to navigate it the right way, it can actually really benefit your career in the long run.[00:05:10] Ish-: [00:05:10] Yeah. And I totally see the fear as well. Uh, my, my sister, she's kinda been adjusting to online classes. Right. And so everybody's been kind of scrambling, both kind of industry. Uh, same as with higher ed, same with even teachers in universities. And, uh, it's, it's interesting cause there's a scramble happening and people just don't know what to do.[00:05:29]  I'm curious, what you've heard , how are teachers adapting to online teaching.[00:05:33] Justin-: [00:05:33] So I've, I've got some inside sources at some schools. I reached out to them to see how like their universities are doing, and this is no real bias for me, but UCF surprisingly has been pretty good in their transition, but that's mainly because they've had a lot of online courses previously. So they've done like online degrees as well as my sophomore and junior year of college, we have something called like lecture capture.[00:05:58] So instead of having to go to class every single day. What they would do for the big lecture classes. So just think of like marketing one Oh one or bio one Oh one or anything like that. But they would do is you can go to class, but there's only 300 seats in the class and there's like 1200 students in the class.[00:06:15] So what they did was they would record the lecture and put it online so you can either watch it live. Or you could watch it, um, later on in day at anytime that you wanted. So that was great for me because I use it t...

NOTE: The following transcript was generated by robots who don't always understand English so well. I apologize for the grammatical errors. Students Who Design InterviewIsh: [00:00:00] What's up everybody? My name is Ish and I am the founder of virtually, and this is the virtually podcast where we discuss everything online education, including higher ed, online trade schools, bootcamps, ISA, , and so much more. This week's conversation was with Sahil kosha, the founder of students who design, we talked about the origins of online education going all the way back to 2005 and then walked up our way to modern day.[00:00:26] It was genuinely fun to reflect on where we've been and think critically about where we're going, especially given the recent outbreak of coven 19 and the sudden spike of unemployment all around the world. This conversation was more relevant than ever, and I had a blast. I hope you enjoy as well.[00:00:42] hey, everyone! Uh, my name is ish, uh, founder and CEO of virtually, and I am joined by Sahil Khoja, uh, the founder of students who design, uh, so sigh. How would you. Introduce yourself, [00:00:54] Sahil: [00:00:54] yeah, sure. Uh, yeah, so my name is Sal Hill, like it's pronounced, like I saw a Hill. I'm one of the cofounders of students who designed, we first started off as a podcast just trying to help people break into the design industry. That has now evolved into a, uh, a online course, uh, and a mentorship program.[00:01:09] So we, we help people get their first internship or job in product design, and we especially help those people who come from underrepresented backgrounds or unconventional backgrounds.[00:01:19]Ish: [00:01:19] Awesome. And for context, for anybody listening to this in the future, at the time we're recording this, we're amidst, uh, the coronavirus Cova 19 epidemic. We're like in the thick of it right now. Uh, schools all across the country started closing right around mid March. And a lot of universities have let out as well.[00:01:39] And, uh, it is currently April six. And so we have no idea how much longer kind of, uh, quarantining and  social distancing is going to go on for. And gonna talk a lot more about students with design, but real quick right now, I'm curious, how has COVID 19 effected students who design, I guess one, it's virtual.[00:02:00] It's online. So I imagine in that respect it hasn't impacted too much, but what about in terms of inbound interests? Have you seen a spike in interest lower? What's going on.[00:02:09] Sahil: [00:02:09] Yeah. Um, I think there's a couple of things. So one is we. In January, I had launched a free three week course, uh, that was virtual online, but it was still instructor led. And you got feedback and as soon as the schools were like canceled and let out to go home, people were like, Hey, I'm going to be late.[00:02:25] Like I have a lot of like an assignment submissions. I'm gonna, it's gonna be hard for me to participate. And we kinda sense that like this is going to be, this is pretty a pretty crazy time for everyone. And for them to commit to a three week course with deadlines and all that kind of stuff. It just doesn't make sense right now.[00:02:39] So we decided to do, we were actually going to have a cohort in March and April, so what we decided to do is just give everyone access to the course. Um, the other part of it is that our bandwidth was limited because we all work full time jobs while doing students who design. So now we're also transitioning to working from home and being kind of everywhere.[00:02:57] So it's hard for us to be devoted to the students, uh, for a free three week course. So what we did is we essentially said, if you submit. The assignments and you've made your whole case study, send it to us and we'll try to get feedback, but like nothing's really promised, given everything that's going on.[00:03:11] And the other side of it is for our mentees, it's become harder for them to find jobs because now you know people are getting laid off, like there's hiring freezes, and especially for new grads, because like, you know, that's likely who you're not trying to hire for. If you're hiring it all right now. So I think in two ways it's been like that.[00:03:29] So in terms of us being our bandwidth and then our mentees ability to find jobs has been difficult. Uh, and I mentioned like a spike, and that's definitely happened where I think it was last, uh, last Wednesday we released a, uh. A blog post with FEMA about how to set up an online design classroom and we saw this huge spike in applications.[00:03:47] I think we're at like 700 something now for our three week course. Um, which is cool, but it's hard cause like we don't know how to support all these people and it makes sense. Like everyone says during a recession, the best thing to do is like go back to school because like, you don't want to get into the job market.[00:04:01]Um. And it seems like that makes sense. Like everyone wants to like, use this time to like get better at a skill or learn something new. Like I've had friends texting me for some reason, they're like, Hey, do you know, like, where I can learn how to code? Um, and you know, like direct them to different places.[00:04:13] But I think that's what people are trying to do is just try to upskill themselves in this time. But the issue is, is like the market demand isn't as strong as it used to be, especially for something that like design, which is already a bit more constrained if you're not senior. Um, so that's been kind of what we've seen in the last six to eight weeks.[00:04:30] Ish: [00:04:30] Got it. Got it. And so it looks like a lot of people given their, you know, now a lot of people have a lot of free time. They're investing in their education and even though they know that they're maybe not going to be able to get work right now, they're hoping that this is going to pay off.[00:04:44] One's kind of, the quarantine is over and kind of companies start ramping up their hiring again.[00:04:50] Sahil: [00:04:50] Yeah.[00:04:51] Ish: [00:04:51] Yeah. Awesome. Well, Hey, I want to dive really deep into students who design, but that's, we can kind of hold off for a little bit real quick. I kind of want to go kind of walk down memory lane and talk about where online education was all the way back in, I think 2005.[00:05:06] And I think that's when like YouTube was founded, right. And, uh, my earliest kind of memory of[00:05:13][00:05:13] education on YouTube was just like  very lightweight. Like people uploading videos, instructional videos, how tos about, you know, just random topics. I know for me it was, I remember the first instructional YouTube video I'd ever watched was how to solve a Rubik's cube.[00:05:27] And that's, that's how I learned, uh, how to solve a Rubik's cube. And I guess that was, I thought the inception of kind of online education. I know there was blogging before, but in terms of like video education, that's really where it started. Uh, what are your memories of, I guess, YouTube when it was originally, founded and I guess specifically the education side of it.[00:05:48] Sahil: [00:05:48] Yeah. I think for me, YouTube is really big in high school where like. Uh, things like math and science didn't come natural to me, so I really went to YouTube to figure out what the hell is going on. Uh, especially for chemistry, I remember like everything for Khan Academy, like I would like, he taught me chemistry, everythin...