
Changelog Interviews
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Latest episodes

Oct 2, 2019 • 43min
Maintainer spotlight! Valeri Karpov
In this episode we’re shining our maintainer spotlight on Valeri Karpov. Val has been the solo maintainer of Mongoose since 2014. This episode with Val continues our maintainer spotlight series where we dig deep into the life of an open source software maintainer. We’re producing this series in partnership with Tidelift. Huge thanks to Tidelift for making this series possible.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Tidelift – Tidelift is the first managed open source subscription that pays the maintainers of the exact open source projects you depend on while giving you the commercial support you’ve been looking for. Learn more at tidelift.com.
Featuring:Valeri Karpov – Website, GitHub, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Tools Val uses
Acquit
Mocha
ESlint
serve
People Val respects
Dr. Axel Rauschmayer
Gleb Bahmutov
Misko Hevery
Vojta Jina
Val’s ebooks
The 80/20 Guide to ES2015 Generators
Mastering Async/Await
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 27, 2019 • 1h 33min
Nushell for the GitHub era
Jonathan Turner, Andrés Robalino, and Yehuda Katz joined the show to talk about Nushell, or just Nu for short. It’s a modern shell for the GitHub era. It’s written in Rust, and it has the backing of some of the greatest minds in open source. We talk through what it is, how it works and cool things you can do with it, why Rust, ideas for the future, and ways for the community to get involved and contribute.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Linode – Our cloud server of choice. Deploy a fast, efficient, native SSD cloud server for only $5/month. Get 4 months free using the code changelog2019. Start your server - head to linode.com/changelog
GitPrime – GitPrime helps software teams accelerate their velocity and release products faster by turning historical git data into easy to understand insights and reports. Ship faster because you know more. Not because you’re rushing. Learn more at gitprime.com/changelog.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Build and release your software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time. Learn more at teamcity.com/changelog.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com.
Featuring:Jonathan Turner – Website, GitHub, XAndrés N. Robalino – GitHub, LinkedIn, XYehuda Katz – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Nushell homepage
The Nu book
nushell/nushell on GitHub
Nushell’s Discord
Follow @nu_shell and check out This week in Nu
The thing that’s missing from your MVP
How not to die by Paul Graham
Code examples discussed on the show:
curl api.github.com | from-json | get current_user_url
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 19, 2019 • 1h 4min
Machine powered refactoring with AST's
Amal Hussein (Engineering Manager at npm) joined the show to talk about AST’s — aka, abstract syntax trees. Amal is giving a talk at All Things Open on the subject so we asked her to give us an early preview. She’s on a mission to democratize the knowledge and usage of AST’s to push legacy code and the web forward.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:All Things Open – Exploring open source, open tech, and the open web in the enterprise. Raleigh, NC — October 13-15, 2019
Linode – Our cloud server of choice. Deploy a fast, efficient, native SSD cloud server for only $5/month. Get 4 months free using the code changelog2019. Start your server - head to linode.com/changelog
GitPrime – GitPrime helps software teams accelerate their velocity and release products faster by turning historical git data into easy to understand insights and reports. Ship faster because you know more. Not because you’re rushing. Learn more at gitprime.com/changelog.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Build and release your software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time. Learn more at teamcity.com/changelog.
Featuring:Amal Hussein – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:We’ll be at All Things Open! We’re hosting a LIVE JS Party on stage and Jerod Santo is giving a talk on using Svelte for a radical new approach to building user interfaces. And as a special thanks from the team behind All Things Open, we’re giving away 5 free passes to the conference. All you have to do tweet “I want a free pass to All Things Open because…” and state your reason and copy @Changelog and @AllThingsOpen in the tweet.
We’ll DM the winners next Friday, September 27th — good luck!
For those who don’t want to wait and just want 20% off your ticket right now — use the code changelog20 when you buy your tickets. This code has UNLIMITED uses, so tell your friends! Head to allthingsopen.com to learn more and register.
Amal’s talk at All Things Open — Machine powered refactoring: leverage AST’s to push your legacy code (& the web) forward
AllThingsOpen.org
AST Explorer
StranglerFigApplication
Abstract syntax tree on Wikipedia
The Web Platform podcast
Jscodeshift
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 17, 2019 • 1h 17min
Generative engineering cultures
Dave Kaplan (Head of Software Engineering at Policygenius) joined the show to talk about Generative Engineering Cultures and how they have become the goal of industry-aware tech teams. We talk through the topology of organizational cultures ranging from pathological, to bureaucratic, to generative, the importance of management buy-in (from the top down) on leading a generative culture, the ability to contribute original value which is deeply rooted in the concept of aligned autonomy. We also covered the 6 core skills required for us to be empowered in our teams.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DigitalOcean – DigitalOcean now offers three managed databases — PostgreSQL, MySQL, and Redis. Get started for free with a $50 credit. Learn more at do.co/changelog.
GitPrime – GitPrime helps software teams accelerate their velocity and release products faster by turning historical git data into easy to understand insights and reports. Ship faster because you know more. Not because you’re rushing. Learn more at gitprime.com/changelog.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Build and release your software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time. Learn more at teamcity.com/changelog.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com.
Featuring:David Kaplan – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
How to build a generative engineering culture
Policygenius.com
Revisiting Agile Guilds: Charter Guilds
Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup
Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us
Inspired: How To Create Products Customers Love
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 6, 2019 • 1h 8min
Modern software is built on APIs
Abhinav Asthana (founder of Postman) joined the show to talk about Postman, an ADE — API Development Environment — that began as open source and is now a full-fledged company that just announced a $50 million dollar Series B. We talk about why Postman has grown so successfully, APIs and their impact to core business factors, what it means to be an API Development Environment (ADE), and how they created one of the most popular API platforms and community.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DigitalOcean – DigitalOcean now offers three managed databases — PostgreSQL, MySQL, and Redis. Get started for free with a $50 credit. Learn more at do.co/changelog.
GitPrime – GitPrime helps software teams accelerate their velocity and release products faster by turning historical git data into easy to understand insights and reports. Ship faster because you know more. Not because you’re rushing. Learn more at gitprime.com/changelog.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Build and release your software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time. Learn more at teamcity.com/changelog.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com.
Featuring:Abhinav Asthana – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Postman
Postman announces $50 million in Series B
postmanlabs/newman - a command-line collection runner for Postman
Postman API network
POST/CON 2019 - Postman user conference
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 29, 2019 • 1h 4min
Maintainer spotlight! Feross Aboukhadijeh
In this episode we’re shining our maintainer spotlight on Feross Aboukhadijeh. Feross is the creator and maintainer of 100’s of open source projects which have been downloaded 100’s of million of times each month — projects like StandardJS, BitMidi, and WebTorrent to name a few. This episode with Feross continues our maintainer spotlight series where we dig deep into the life of an open source software maintainer. We’re producing this series in partnership with Tidelift. Huge thanks to Tidelift for making this series possible.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Tidelift – Tidelift is the first managed open source subscription that pays the maintainers of the exact open source projects you depend on while giving you the commercial support you’ve been looking for. Learn more at tidelift.com.
Featuring:Feross Aboukhadijeh – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
JavaScript Standard Style
BitMidi
WebTorrent
patreon.com/feross
feross.org/thanks
patreon.com/evanyou
Burnout in the tech industry (and why we need to talk about it)
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 23, 2019 • 1h 20min
OSCON 2019 anthology
We’re on the expo hall floor of OSCON 2019 talking with Eric Holscher, Ali Spittel, and Hong Phuc Dang. First up, we talk to Eric about his work at Write the Docs, ethical advertising, and the Pac-Man rule at conferences. Second, we talk with Ali about her passion for teaching developers, her passion for writing, and her new found love for podcasting. Last, we talk with Hong about her work at FOSSASIA, the disconnect between America and Asia in open source, and several of the cool open source projects they have on GitHub.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Linode – Our cloud server of choice. Deploy a fast, efficient, native SSD cloud server for only $5/month. Get 4 months free using the code changelog2019. Start your server - head to linode.com/changelog
Keen – Keen makes customer-facing metrics simple. It’s the platform that gives you powerful in-product analytics fast with minimal development time. Go to Keen.io/Changelog and get your first 30-days of Keen for free.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Deliver software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time.
Innovate Software at OSCON – Whether you’re looking to understand where software development is headed, or want to dive into the key technologies that you need to build resilient, useful, innovative software, the O’Reilly Open Source Software Conference (OSCON) is where you’ll find the answers you need. Secure your spot for 2020 now and save 20% on your pass with code CHANGELOG20.
Featuring:Eric Holscher – Website, GitHub, XAli Spittel – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XHong Phuc Dang – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Special thanks to our friends at O’Reilly Media and OSCON for making our trip to Portland possible.
Eric:
Write the Docs
Request For Commits #5: Documentation and the value of non-code contributions with Eric Holscher
The Pac-Man Rule at Conferences
Ethical Advertising
CodeFund
Ali:
Ali Spittel on Dev.to
Ladybug podcast
Hong:
FOSSASIA
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 16, 2019 • 1h 29min
Shaping, betting, and building
Ryan Singer, head of Product Strategy at Basecamp, joined the show to talk about their newest book — Shape Up: Stop running in circles and ship work that matters. It’s written by Ryan himself and you can read it right now for free online at Basecamp.com/shapeup.
We talked about the back story of the book, how the methodology for Shape Up developed from within at Basecamp, the principles and methodologies of Shape Up, how teams of varying sizes can implement Shape Up. Ryan even shared a special invitation to our listeners near the end of the show to his live and in-person Shape Up workshop on August 28th in Detroit, Michigan.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Linode – Our cloud server of choice. Deploy a fast, efficient, native SSD cloud server for only $5/month. Get 4 months free using the code changelog2019. Start your server - head to linode.com/changelog
Keen – Keen makes customer-facing metrics simple. It’s the platform that gives you powerful in-product analytics fast with minimal development time. Go to Keen.io/Changelog and get your first 30-days of Keen for free.
TeamCity by JetBrains – Deliver software faster with TeamCity — a self-hosted continuous integration and delivery server developed by JetBrains. TeamCity is super-smart at running incremental builds, reusing artifacts, and building only what needs to be built, which can save over 30% of the daily build time.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com.
Featuring:Ryan Singer – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Shape Up
Foreword by Jason Fried
Principles of shaping
Example pitches — “How we do it in Basecamp”
Bets, Not Backlogs
How to Begin to Shape Up
Summary of the Shape Up method
Shape Up glossary
Ryan’s tweet about the Shape Up workshop
If you have questions — email shapeup@basecamp.com
Getting Real
All of Basecamp’s books
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 7, 2019 • 1h 6min
Observability is for your unknown unknowns
Christine Yen (co-founder and CEO of Honeycomb) joined the show to talk about her upcoming talk at Strange Loop titled “Observability: Superpowers for Developers.” We talk practically about observability and how it delivers on these superpowers. We also cover the biggest hurdles to observability, the cultural shifts needed in teams to implement observability, and even the gains the entire organization can enjoy when you deliver high-quality code and you’re able to respond to system failure with resilience.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DigitalOcean – The simplest cloud platform for developers and teams Whether you’re running one virtual machine or ten thousand, makes managing your infrastructure too easy. Get started for free with a $50 credit. Learn more at do.co/changelog.
GoCD + Kubernetes – With GoCD running on Kubernetes, you define your build workflow and let GoCD provision and scale build infrastructure on the fly. GoCD installs as a Kubernetes native application. Scale your build infrastructure elastically. Learn more at gocd.org/kubernetes
CrossBrowserTesting – The ONLY all-in-one testing platform that can run automated, visual, and manual UI tests – on thousands of real desktops and mobile browsers.
Strange Loop – A conference for software developers in St. Louis, MO. covering programming languages, databases, distributed systems, security, machine learning, creativity, and more! Sep 12-14, 2019 / Oct 1-3, 2020 / Sep 30-Oct 2, 2021
Featuring:Christine Yen – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
“testing is for known knowns, monitoring is for known unknowns, observability is for unknown unknowns” – Jez Humble
Check out Strange Loops’ impressive lineup of speakers this year
Observability: Superpowers for Developers
Framework for an observability maturity model
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 2, 2019 • 1h 5min
Federating JavaScript's language commons with Entropic
We’re joined by C J Silverio, aka ceejbot on Twitter, aka 2nd hire and former CTO at npm Inc. We talk with Ceej about her recent JS Conf EU talk titled “The Economies of Open Source” where she laid our her concerns with the JavaScript language commons being owned by venture capitalists. Currently the JavaScript language commons is controlled by the npm registery, and as you may know, npm is a VC backed for profit start up. Of course we also talk with Ceej about the bomb she dropped, Entropic, at the end of that talk — a federated package registry for JavaScript C J hopes will unseat npm and free the JavaScript language commons.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DigitalOcean – The simplest cloud platform for developers and teams Whether you’re running one virtual machine or ten thousand, makes managing your infrastructure too easy. Get started for free with a $50 credit. Learn more at do.co/changelog.
GoCD + Kubernetes – With GoCD running on Kubernetes, you define your build workflow and let GoCD provision and scale build infrastructure on the fly. GoCD installs as a Kubernetes native application. Scale your build infrastructure elastically. Learn more at gocd.org/kubernetes
CrossBrowserTesting – The ONLY all-in-one testing platform that can run automated, visual, and manual UI tests – on thousands of real desktops and mobile browsers.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com.
Featuring:CJ Silverio – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
The Economies of Open Source
entropic.dev
npm, Inc. has a new CEO (Bryan Bogensberger)
JS Party #82: LIVE from NodeConf Colombia featuring Kat Marchán, Anna Henningsen, Ruben Bridgewater & James Snell — We’re linking to the transcript to point out what Kat Marchán said at NodeConf Colombia
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!