Copywriters Podcast

Our guest today, Ken McCarthy, has been at the forefront of Internet marketing and copywriting from the start. To give you just one in example, way back in 1994, he sponsored a conference about making the Internet a place where you could do business. Before then, it was a business-free zone. His featured speaker was a pioneer of the time, Mark Andreessen, who went on to co-found one of Silicon Valley’s most important Venture Capital firms. OK. Let’s fast-forward 20 years to 2014. Five years ago. Tony Haile, CEO of Chartbeat, one of the world’s top data analytics firms, wrote this in Time magazine: In 1994, a former direct mail marketer called Ken McCarthy came up with the clickthrough as the measure of ad performance on the web. From that moment on, the click became the defining action of advertising on the web. See, it’s one thing to come up with an idea. It’s another thing entirely to be recognized as the guy who came up with it, by a leading industry authority in Time magazine. As a copywriter or business owner, why is this important to you? Here’s why. Ken’s also a copywriter. A marketer. He’s made a lot of money that way. And recently he pointed out that there are some key things no one’s been teaching that he’s decided he’s willing to share. With you. On this podcast. Things that, if you put them to use conscientiously, could make you a lot of money. Ken, thanks for being here. There’s one other thing I want to tell our listeners about themselves before we dive in: Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time. Topics Ken covered on these calls: • Though Ken never wrote for clients — only for his own business — he claims to have made more money “in a short time than many copywriters make in a long career.” • Some basics of copy that most people who teach, or talk about copy, gloss over or miss entirely. Ken dug in and shared nitty-gritty stuff that brings in the bucks. • Ken’s discovery of a hidden treasure trove of John Caples ads (that most people have never seen, to this day)… and what he learned from that. • And many other gems — the kind of stuff that has earned Ken high respect, both in the “big-box corporate world” of advertising, as well as among the hardest of the hard-core direct marketers. Ken's WebsiteDownload.

The TV series “Perry Mason” was an important part of my youth. It also turns out the writer who originally created the characters for the show was, for a time, the world’s best-selling author. With more than 300 million book sales to his name, Earl Stanley Gardner was a real-world expert on how to communicate with large numbers of people in an emotionally compelling way. In today’s show, we extract some secrets from a book that details the years of work, and important discoveries, Gardner made in his never-ending quest to learn how to write the perfect story. The book is called “Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.” Its authors are Francis L. and Roberta B. Fugate. You can get it on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OQ6XDHQ/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_P9sRCbXJEMSQR Here’s what we cover in the podcast: 1. Gardner’s carefully refined five-point checklist for the perfect plot While this checklist is for fiction, there’s a lot in there that will also help copywriters improve their engagement and conversions. 2. Themes and motivations that magnetize readers to your words. Here’s a list of what we discuss. These are directly from Gardner, via the Fugates’ book: Themes: 1. Tis sport to see the engineer hoist by his own petard (the villain who overreaches himself) 2. Man in position of power abusing that power and tripped up 3. The old man who is still young 4. Man who champions the underdog 5. Why don’t you speak for yourself, John? 6. The ugly duckling who becomes beautiful 7. Man who renounces reward and is doomed to independent loneliness 8. Downtrodden person suddenly asserting himself 9. The race is not always to the swift 10. Virtue is its own reward 11. There’s many a slip twixt cup and lip 12. Haste makes waste 13. He who hesitates is lost 14. Faint heart never won fair lady Motivations: 1. Wealth 2. Happy sex companionship 3. Justice 4. Food 5. Happiness of environment 6. Opportunity to get ahead 7. Self-improvement 8. Wisdom . . . knowing more than another man 9. Influence 10. Put the overbearing boss in his place 11. Physical perfection or improvement 12. Domination of environment—mastery of others 13. Triumph of the underdog One other gem I plucked from this incredible book: “Don’t give your reader a headache.” Gardner’s early tries were too thought-provoking for the markets he was writing for, and he got some serious literary smack-downs in rejection letters from his editors (one of whom later went on to work for The New Yorker). Good lesson for copywriters in this. Shout-out to the great Scottish copywriter Colin Joss for giving me a heads-up about the book we quote from in this show.Download.

Ben Settle, a notorious email specialist, author, anti-professional, and novelist, shares his horror fiction writing while discussing the importance of world building, creating a unique customer experience, incorporating personality in marketing, and writing attention-grabbing headlines in copywriting.

Our returning champion is copywriter Doug Pew. He was kind enough to be a guest a couple of months ago, when he talked about The Music of Copywriting. Doug is currently working on a couple of books about copywriting, but that’s not why he’s here today. The reason Doug agreed to come on and speak is The Copywriters Podcast itself. That is, Doug found himself in a bind a few weeks ago. The kind of bind every copywriter both dreams of and dreads. An onslaught of work no normal human could possibly handle. Including insane deadlines. And regular life carrying on apace. Did Doug survive it? We’ll leave you in suspense to let Doug tell you the story. But what’s most interesting is not the sheer number of words, emails, pages of sales letter, etc. that Doug produced in a stunningly short period of time. What’s most interesting is how he did it. And how we were able to help. In the same way, I hope we can help you in the future. We get into all the details in this episode, which is useful and entertaining in an unusual way! RockStar Copywriting Download.

With Brandon Frederickson Brandon is a stock market guru, turned marketer - turned copywriter. He’s managed product launches for the likes of Jeff Walker and he’s currently a copywriter for Stansberry Research, the 2nd largest division of Agora. Brandon specializes in product launches and maximizing long term value and retention. He does this by understanding how to build long term relationships with clients through marketing and copy, and by working deep inside of funnels to maximize net revenue. Brandon’s entrance into the world of direct marketing is at once impressive and hilarious. And, maybe, instructive and inspirational to anyone just getting started. Also, there are nuggets for every marketer who’s willing to listen deeply and think about his great origin story. There’s a big difference between money and fame. Or, between cash and glory. Sometimes rich people also get a lot of fame and glory, but more often than you’d think, people who act rich don’t even have next month’s rent in the bank. Brandon’s been doing well for a long time, and he’s well known but only among a select group of people who have knowledge of his extraordinary talents. It’s also worth pointing out that there’s not nearly as much glory in sweeping vast sums of the money off the table the way he does as there is in writing a sales letter that becomes a control. Nevertheless, Brandon is quickly becoming very well known in his own right not only as a copywriter, but also because of his knack for maximizing the value of each customer with the special magic he performs. Now, there is nothing wrong with making a lot of money for a client (or for your own business) by writing a profitable and long-lasting sales letter. But there is something not right with developing customer relationships and then letting them die, twisting slowly, slowly in the wind. On today’s show, Brandon will tell you how you can create multiple customer-relationship-sustaining funnels and stop leaving vast sums of money on the table!Download.

Three books I’ve been picking through for other projects, from entertainment fields, reminded me of the way we’re writing copy today: Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy, by Robert Jourdain The Writer’s Journey, 2nd Edition, by Christopher Vogler Shortcuts to Hit Songwriting, by Robin Frederick The rules used to be that copy was NOT to be entertaining. And that seems to have changed. But here’s one thing that has never changed, and never will: How it was in the past How it is now Three things that brought us to where we are today technology changes: ipad, netflix, amazon prime changes in news and politics social media: ad rules, plus the rise of content marketing How things are different now What to do differently be more aware of everyday life -- what’s going on around you, how you feel, how others probably feel use graphics to tell your story learn about engagement techniques from film, fiction, music What not to do, even today don’t turn your marketing into a comedy show or a mini-dramatic movie don’t take your eye off the ball. Remember, the primary job of your copy is to sell, or to inspire another specific action besides buying don’t sacrifice believability for entertainment valueDownload.

Richard Armstrong is a top A-List copywriter and I’m proud to say he’s my friend. He’s written for all the big mailers: Agora, Boardroom, Rodale, Kiplinger’s, Reader’s Digest, and many others. The late and extremely picky William F. Buckley, Jr. once allowed that Richard’s writing is “terrific.” The legendary Gary Bencivenga called Richard “one of the best copywriters on the planet.” And the great Dan Kennedy simply said of Richard, “I envy his talent.” Gotta agree with Dan on that one. I envy Richard’s talent, too. But envy has never prevented me from having a guest on this podcast. Today Richard’s going to talk about con artistry — and there’s a perfectly legitimate reason for that — as well as some storytelling stuff you’ve probably never heard before. 1. Richard, we’re going to talk a lot about copywriting today, but I want to start by plugging your excellent new book, The Don Con, and ask you just a little about your research for that. Specifically, what did you learn about who con artists are and what they do? 2. I know you’re going to be offering our listeners a free special report, and we’ll talk about it later. Besides your really cool book, I also got the chance to review your special report in advance, and I would like you share with us one of the most astonishing things I read in it: You said that a lot of the techniques, or maybe all the techniques, that con artists use are the same ones we copywriters use. So what are those techniques, and what’s the difference between a con artist and a copywriter? 3. In a former lifetime, I interviewed you for a webinar series and you said something that keeps echoing in my brain, for years. It was that the secret A-List copywriters know, that other copywriters don’t, is about research. Could you talk about the level of research a top copywriter does, and what’s involved? 4. Richard, as a fellow advertising guy, surely you must remember the old ad for Certs: It’s a breath mint and a candy mint. How they packed all that into one mint, I’m still puzzled about to this day. But in your own way, you’ve got a similarly rare distinction. You’re a copywriter and a novelist. Tell us, what do novelists know about storytelling that copywriters don’t know? 5. One of my favorite Richard Armstrong stories is your lift note for Kiplinger’s Personal Finance about your aunt Jane. It, of course, is great storytelling in itself. Here, let me read it out loud so our listeners will be familiar with it: Dear Friend, My aunt Jane is rich as sin. And nobody in my family can figure out why. She worked as a librarian her whole life. Her husband, who passed away a few years back, was a tool-and-die maker. They never earned much money in their lives. But boy, were they ever smart with what they had. There was a little vacation home that they picked up for a song and wound up selling for $250,000. Some well-chosen stocks that grew in value over the years. Mutual funds. Municipal bonds. Treasury bills. Even a vintage Volkswagen “Beetle” that’s worth more now than the day they bought it. Nowadays my Aunt Jane -- who we always thought was just a little crazy -- is a bonafide millionaire! One day I asked her for the secret of her success. “I have three rules,” she said. 1) Never let your money sit idle 2) Never pay more than you have to for anything 3) Never pass up anything that’s free Well, my friend, unless you return the enclosed card today, you’re going to break at least one -- and probably all three -- of my aunt’s rules. Because if you return the enclosed card, you’ll get a free issue of KIPLINGER’S PERSONAL FINANCE (Rule #3). If you decide to subscribe, you’ll get the next 11 issues at a very low price, plus three free bonus gifts (Rule #2). And instead of spending the rest of your life working for money, you’ll put your money to work for you. (Rule #1) I know my Aunt Jane wouldn’t pass up a free sample issue of KIPLINGER’S PERSONAL FINANCE magazine. But of course... She already subscribes. Best regards, Richard Armstrong Could you tell us about this piece of copy? I particularly love hearing you recount how you wrote it -- or how you gave up entirely, and it wrote itself. 6. When you’ve written controls or blockbuster promotions, beside inhuman amounts of research, what are some of the other techniques you use that might be helpful to our listeners, who are copywriters and business owners interested in copy? 7. Finally, your special report: “How to Talk Anyone Into Anything.” Besides the smidgen of your research findings that we talked about in the beginning… tell us about the other research you did writing your new book The Don Con, that led up to this report. And, tell us how our readers can get a free copy of this magnificent free special report! Check Out Richard's New Book Download.

Explore the secrets of closing in copywriting through analogies like dominoes, picking an apple, and proposing. Understand the importance of energy, preparation, and the right components in closing a sale. Dive deep into effective strategies, enthusiasm, and tailoring copy to different market sophistication levels. Gain insights on closing techniques and transitioning to fiction writing in this engaging episode.

Our show today features superstar public speaker and Internet marketing trainer Tom Antion, who shares some expert info about the red-hot topic of public speaking for copywriters and business owners. Why is this important? Because “the copywriter’s journey,” as we’ll call it, goes something like this: - You start out learning to write copy. Big mystery - Suddenly, it becomes clear as something you write “hits” - Then, almost just as suddenly, the floodgates open. You have more clients than you have time to write for (on time) - Eventually, you learn to write faster - You start to make amazing money - Then, a funny thing happens. You notice that your clients — especially those selling info-products, seminars, and courses — are making even more money than you are. As in, a LOT more. Now, there’s nothing wrong with their making more money than you do. And, if you’ve played your cards right, you’re still getting paid pretty well as a copywriter. Even so, at this point in your “copywriter’s journey,” (and the same thing happens with business owners who don’t start out in the info-product business), a question occurs: “Why can’t _I_ do that kind of thing and make that kind of money?” Well, if that’s you -- you can. But you need some additional skills. And most of those skills revolve around something many people avoid at all costs: public speaking. But it doesn’t have to be that hard, or that scary. Our guest, Tom Antion, knows how to take in huge paydays speaking from the platform — and claims to have trained more public speakers than anyone else alive. I’ve known Tom for 30 years and my jaw has dropped repeatedly over time at Tom’s energy, industry, willingness to help, and ability to help other people get results. He’s a great speaker. A terrific trainer. And genuinely nice, and generous, guy. Tom very generously shared a lot of tips on the podcast. As someone who has used public speaking myself (not just podcasts, but platform speaking) to substantially grow my own businesses, I strongly recommend this value-packed, and frankly very entertaining as well, podcast interview. Screw The Commute PodcastDownload.

A little-known book called “The Act of Creation” by Arthur Koestler says that there are three states of mind all creative people use in the process of coming up with new ideas. Broadly stated, these three states are: 1. Humor 2. Scientific Thinking 3. Art While knowing about these is somewhat useful for the process of writing copy, being able to write copy that inspires these different states of mind in prospects while they are READING your copy is even more valuable. I’ve never seen anyone talk about them the way Koestler does, or even mention this book except one of the world’s greatest living creative geniuses, whose identity I reveal on the show. Then we go through each state, one-by-one, giving specific techniques and examples for each state. Variety is the spice of life, and variety in your copy is the key to more conversions. We pay particular attention to the high-wire act of using humor in copy. It’s generally not a good idea. But there are ways to adapt the principles of humor so rather than coming up with comedy, you come up with brain-jostling ideas and phrases that add extra go-power to your copy. After you have finished listening to today’s show, you’ll have a new toolkit of techniques to make your copy more interesting, and make it convert better.Download.