Copywriters Podcast

Elmer Wheeler may have been the best-paid copywriter of all time, on a dollars-per-word basis. In the 1930s, Texaco paid him $5000 to come up with the question “Is your oil at the proper level today, sir?” In 2021 money, that was the equivalent of about $95,000 — for nine words. Or, more than $10,000 for each of those nine words. But those nine words had some other dollars attached to them as well. Texaco estimated gas station attendants who asked customers that question ended up opening one-quarter of a million car hoods — and, you can bet, selling lots and lots of extra motor oil soon after they did. By 1938, Elmer Wheeler had worked out tested selling sentences for 5000 products, according to an article about him in the New Yorker. One of those sentences, for Barbasol shaving cream, reportedly increased sales by 300%. In 1940, he wrote a book called “Sizzlemanship: More than 2,000 Successful Selling Pitches to Command Instant Attention and Buying Action.” It is out of print today, but there’s a Kindle edition available on Amazon for a few dollars. He’s definitely one of the most interesting and, I’m sorry to say, overlooked Old Masters in copywriting. But we’re going to do something to correct that overlooked part today. I have a hard copy of the book and I pored over it to find a few examples of his tested selling sentences we could look at today. Now remember there are more than 2,000 tested selling sentences in the book. Even if we were to read them without saying anything else, that would take several podcasts. So what I’ve decided to do is find five categories of sentences that would give every copywriter a real edge, once this information is incorporated in their thinking and their copy. Elmer Wheeler was way ahead of his time, nearly 100 years ago. But we can all benefit from his timeless, market-tested wisdom. And that’s what we cover in today’s episode. Sizzlemanship, by Elmer Wheeler https://www.amazon.com/Sizzlemanship-New-Tested-Selling-Sentences-ebook/dp/B01M691BVVDownload.

We’ve had really good responses for our Old Masters Series shows, where we look at one important copywriter from the past, and people were literally falling all over themselves when we brought on Sean Vosler a few weeks ago to talk about the founding fathers of copywriting. We had to send out the special writers unit of the Copy Patrol to pick those people up off the floor. But my friend and client Jason Parker made a suggestion that kicks things up a notch even higher. The idea involves finding the best single idea from the greatest copywriters, that we can all use today. I really appreciate Jason’s suggestion and want to give him a shout-out right here and right now. I should also say that I spent a lot of time mulling this over, and today’s show is what I came up with. We’re going to look at five “keepers.” A keeper in this case is an idea you want to carry with you for the rest of your life, because it’s so good. Five keepers from five of copywriting’s greats. They range from the early 1900s to the last 20 years. The way I chose these five keepers was by asking: What’s one thing that not only worked when the copywriter introduced it, but works just as well today? Also, what’s something simple enough that we can talk about in just a few minutes, and everyone will understand it. With one exception. One of these concepts, from Gene Schwartz, really takes a while to make it your own. I included because it’s so important, and so rarely understood, that it was worth breaking the guidelines to get you started on it if you don’t already know it and use it. Besides Gene Schwartz, the other four copywriters are: Claude Hopkins, John E. Kennedy, John Caples and Gary Halbert. Links: breakthroughadvertisingbook.combreakthroughadvertisingbook.com thegaryhalbertletter.comthegaryhalbertletter.com Download.

We’re really lucky today to have Marissa Morgan as our special guest today, and you’ll see why in just a minute or two. I met Marissa as a guest on her show earlier this year, and you’ll hear more about that in a few minutes. But that show is only the latest chapter in Marissa’s very impressive resume. Before we get to the highlights, let me share the one reason you should pay very close attention to everything she says and does today. It’s that that Marissa excels at two of the most important skills to have at this time in history. - Being on TV, and - Selling on TV. Marissa has more than $25 million in sales to her name on Home Shopping Network and other TV shopping channels. Personally. But wait, there’s more. A lot more. As an actress, she’s been on TV shows including Ray Donovan, Fuller House, and Bixler High Private Eye, just to name a few. Most of the time, she gets cast as a news anchor or a police officer. She’s done stand-up at The Comedy Store and The Improv in LA. And while she still appears on ShopHQ TV today, she’s also got an exciting new role that’s really relevant to online entrepreneurs with a startup called ngagge, which she’ll tell us about in a bit on today’s show. Here’s what I asked her: 1. Marissa, welcome and thanks for joining us. I’m a big fan of yours and I’m also a big fan of the Showtime series Ray Donovan. You got a role very few people get to have in acting, because you “played yourself.” Could you tell us about it? 2. So let’s talk about Home Shopping Network. I know it’s only one of several TV shopping channels where you have hosted, but it’s definitely the best known to most of our subscribers. Tell us about how you got started… a memorable experience or two… and what your learned in your training. 3. OK, so, moving into the world of the online entrepreneurs and copywriters, what can you tell us about selling online when it’s just you and your computer rather than a whole studio setup? What are people doing right? What are people doing that’s not quite right? What do you notice most frequently that people can do to improve? 4. And this brings us right up to the present. You have a show on ngagge, where I was fortunate enough to be your guest. Tell us about the company, what you’re doing, and what opportunities there are for our listeners? https://www.ngagge.com/Download.

One thing that’s new to you when you become a copywriter, unless you’ve owned a business, grown up in an entrepreneurial family, or been in a business-like music or acting, or professional sports -- That one new thing is risk. It’s not that risk doesn’t exist anywhere else; of course it does. It’s that there are unique kinds of risk in copywriter that will be new to you. I haven’t heard anyone else talk about this before, so I wanted to give you something you could really dig your teeth into. And that’s what we did today. So here’s why we tackled this topic. It’s because risk is here, and most people in copywriting don’t know how to deal with it in a way where they end up winning most of the time. I’d like to help change that. I put this show together to: - encourage you to take some of the risks you’ve been reluctant to take - help you start to weigh upside and downside in any risk you are considering taking - and give you a framework to look at risk, since it’s such a big part of copywriting in so many dimensions. There are many kinds of risk a copywriter faces — as does a business owner whose marketing is based on direct-response copy. We covered many of them briefly. What we zero’d-in on and spent more time on was what I call “internal risk.” That is, going beyond who you think you are now to do the things you really want to do! In that area, there are certain kinds of risk I believe you need to take, in order to grow — and one particular risk you should NEVER take, as doing so will constitute not being true to yourself. Also, we covered where to get advice about taking a risk you’re thinking of taking, as well as the two kinds of people you really shouldn’t ask at all! Download.

This podcast explores how the brain works when reading and how it applies to copywriting. They discuss the power of using simple language, the brain's pattern-seeking behavior and conspiracy theories, conveying universal emotions through specific details, using descriptive language and body language in writing.

For many copywriters, there comes a point where you know you have the basics covered. It’s always good to review them regularly, but what you’re looking for really is an edge here and an edge there. Stuff that gives you an advantage when you use it. These aren’t always big things. Sometimes a strategic word or phrase can give you a bump in conversion or average order value, all by itself. I’m not recommending you depend on these little things to make a big difference for you, without also covering the basics, like good headlines, stories, hooks, offers and things like that. But experienced people know: Sometimes to get a prospect off the fence and into the “customer” column, all it takes is one or two emotion-charged moments during the course of otherwise very good copy. We’ve got a grab-bag of stuff for you today. The main thing they have in common is they are all designed to keep your prospect’s curiosity and engagement high, from the first word of your copy to your final call to action. I call our first section “similes that sparkle, similes that sputter.” You can think of similes like adjectives on steroids. They usually have the word “as” in them. They’re not always adjectives, but they’re usually descriptive and they do it by making a comparison. You could say something is “beautiful,” or you could enhance it by saying something is “beautiful as a sunset.” That phrase is a simile. Our second part is two short quotes about planning and preparation. I think you’ll find you’re taking a new look at these activities after you hear what I have to say. And our third part is 10 magic words. These word work wonder in headlines, stories and offers. They’re all battle tested and just one of them may give you the edge you need in the next copy you write. Here’s a link to the book I used to find the good and not-so-good examples in the first section of the podcast: Happy As A Clam, and 9999 Other Similes, by Larry Wright https://www.amazon.com/dp/0671874748Download.

Our guest today is a copywriting historian and eight-figure practitioner of direct response copy. His name is Sean Vosler and I’ve wanted to have him on the show ever since I saw some of his detailed, comprehensive mindmaps connecting the early pioneers of advertising to the world of today. He’s also the founder of Increase.Academy and author of the best-selling guide “7 Figure Marketing Copy.” He specializes in helping business scale to seven and even eight figures. We’re going to talk about a bunch of things today, including how he scales businesses with direct marketing copy. But just as important is his unique and penetrating research back into the 1880s and 1890s, where he is on a mission to find out how we got to where we are today in the world of direct response marketing. Of course, one of the reasons Copywriters Podcast got to where we are are today is the following: Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time. On today’s show, we heard some wild tales about: -Why Sean is so eager to get to New York - The great copywriters of the late 19th Century, and how their influence stretches from Claude Hopkins to all of us today - How he got into becoming such a prodigious copywriting historian - His new book, 7-Figure Marketing Copy You can find out more about the book at: Sean.co/copywriterspodcastSean.co/copywriterspodcast Download.

Every marketer has their favorite books and experts. One of mine is Dr. Robert Cialdini, who wrote “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.” It’s a classic and I’m sure many of you have read it and found it incredibly useful. That’s not his only book, though. Dr. Cialdini got together with a couple of friends… a prof and consultant from the UK, Steve Martin -- no, not THAT Steve Martin -- and a prof from the UCLA biz school, Dr. Noah Goldstein. They put together a neat book called “The Small Big.” It’s unique as far as I know because it lists tiny little things you can do, or changes you can make, that turn a no into a yes. For some reason it was very hard to find when I got my copy a few years ago. Luckily, today it’s really easy to buy on Amazon. Even as a Kindle. OK. So what we’re going to talk about today is a little different than what we usually talk about, or what I’ve heard anyone talk about in the area of copywriting. This is not about hooks or bullets or storytelling., Or smart hacks to make an upsell bring in more revenue. Now before we get into this, I want to point out that these little hacks, by themselves, are not designed to make money for you. They’re not. Instead, these are what I would call “strategic tactics.” By that I mean, little things that can turn the tide. What’s so appealing about them to me is that they have all been proven through research experiments AND they ring 100% true to repeated experience on my part. These tactics were not originally developed for copywriting, but for persuasion at large — often in large organizational settings. But it’s easy to see how they can be transformed into powerful boosters for any copy that’s fundamentally sound to begin with. Here are the tips we explore in detail, with easy ways to apply them to copy: 1. Creating Maximum Credibility for an Expert One small thing you can do to massively increase your prospect’s confidence in the expert in your copy — or, if you’re writing the letter for yourself, boost confidence in your own expertise. 2. How to Keep ’Em Keeping On This tip gives you a way to maximize getting other people to take action and follow through. It’s useful not only in sales copy, but also in online courses and live trainings. 3. Getting People To Join The Group of “Rebel Individualists” This one’s pretty cool, because it takes advantage of two contradictory aspects of human nature: Going along with the crowd, since we are, after all, herd animals; and, being an individual, not a sheep. -- Plus, a surprise bonus tip on one simple thing you can do to instantly increase your creativity! The book we talk about on today’s show: The Small BIG: small changes that spark big influence — by Steve J. Martin, Noah Goldstein, and Robert Cialdini https://www.amazon.com/small-BIG-changes-spark-influence-ebook/dp/B00HQ2N5CK/ Download.

Today we return to our Old Masters series, but this one is really different. We’re going to look at some of the best specific advice from two people who weren’t copywriters. One was a teacher of writing who really had a big influence on playwrights and screenwriters. The other one didn’t even teach writing at all. At least not writing as we know it. We’ll get to these people in a minute. What they had in common was, they had mastered how to create works that really reached people emotionally in a way that most writers, including most copywriters, only have at best a vague way to do. When you apply what I learned from them to what we do, I call this “to-the-bone” copywriting. Because it reaches deeper into your prospect than even some of the most successful sales letters. And by doing so, it will make any sales letter even more successful. You’ll have to take a leap of faith and see if you don’t agree once we get knee-deep into this “to-the-bone” stuff. So when we get to the phrase “the art and science of copywriting,” today’s show is about the art part. Not art for art’s sake, but some modified artistic ideas and techniques for pragmatic purposes. Copy that connects better; reaches people more deeply when they’re reading it; and, converts better as a result. We’re taking from the works of two Old Masters, and you may never have heard of them before. That’s alright. They come from fields other than copywriting. But they had such an overwhelming influence on major art forms in the 20th century, where emotional connection and meaningful audience experience are the coin of the realm, that I was sure I could dig out some ideas and shape them usefully for copy. Our first old master was a man by the name of Lajos Egri. Originally from Hungary, he came to the US and wrote a book for playwrights called “The Art of Dramatic Writing.” Many writers and directors in Hollywood have used his ideas for putting films together. “The Art of Dramatic Writing” is really too heavy-duty for copywriting purposes. But Egri also wrote a book that is out of print today and very hard to find called “Your Key to Successful Writing.” This was almost a for-Dummies version of his original book. Very solid, but pared down to the basics. I found a couple of to-the-bone secrets in there that are nearly ready-made for copywriting. Our second Old Master is very well known to students of classical music and almost invisible to nearly everyone else. But, she is almost solely responsible for American concert music starting to be taken seriously in the rest of the world, starting in the early 20th Century. Her name was Nadia Boulanger, and she lived in Paris. Americans including composers Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Burt Bacharach and Quincy Jones are among the people she taught, and she influenced all of American and European music tremendously. She was also a composer, conductor and performer, but most of her work was her teaching. Now, she was a music person, not a words person. Very literate and educated, but everything was music for her, writing music, analyzing students’ music, talking about music. The book we’re drawing from is called “Mademoiselle” and it consists of reconstructed conversations she had. This book is also out of print and hard to find. The reason I chose Lajos Egri and Nadia Boulanger for today’s Old Masters Series show is, they helped writers and composers make a deep emotional connection with their viewers and listeners in ways few other teachers were able to. So what they have to say will be very useful to copywriters looking for their next edge.Download.

Our guest today has taken copywriting knowledge over the paid-content platform Patreon, and he’s the first person I’ve heard to do this. Eddie Shleyner started out writing copy for some large business websites. Meanwhile, he kept some notes to himself as he was figuring out copywriting in a hectic corporate environment. One thing led to another, and there have been some pretty interesting developments, which you’ll hear about today. Here are the questions Eddie answered: 1. You’ve taken a different approach to copywriting from anyone else I’ve come across. Could you tell us something about the results you’re getting -- in terms of clients and income? 2. You’ve told me about your career path, and it’s definitely different. Could you share the highlights of how you got to where you are today? 3. What mistakes did you make and what did you learn from them? 4. And what were the things you tried that worked out really well? 5. So you have 20,000 subscribers… which is pretty awesome for any copywriter and really, more than most online businesses have. What would you say, from a content creation point of view, are the most important things you did that built up your subscriber base? 6. Please tell us more about your subscription service for copywriters on Patreon? Eddie’s Patreon page: Patreon.com/VeryGoodCopyDownload.