Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

What would change if you could see with eyes of love—even in the face of cruelty, fear, and disagreement? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher sit down with renowned spiritual leader, legal advocate, and activist Sister Simone Campbell for a deeply honest conversation about love, justice, and compassion. They explore how contemplative practice grounds fierce activism, why listening is an act of love, and what it means to see even your political opponents with empathy. From her role in passing the Affordable Care Act to launching the "Nuns on the Bus" movement, Sister Simone shares moving stories of courage, community, and the Spirit’s surprising guidance—inviting us all into a new way of seeing and being. Resources: You can find a transcript for this episode here. Find Sr Simone Campbell's book Hunger for Hope here.

What would change if you believed that active, creative non-violence was the deepest expression of love? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher welcome legendary peace activist, Catholic priest, and author Fr. John Dear for an unflinching conversation about the cost—and the healing power—of universal non-violence. Together they explore how language shapes our discipleship, what it feels like to be seen with unconditional love, and why “live and stop the killing” may be the clearest way to describe love in action. Resources: Find out more about Fr. John Dear here. Find out more The Beatitudes Center for the Nonviolent Jesus: here. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

How might your life change if you paused more often to unlearn what fear has taught you? In this episode, hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher are joined by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III. Together, they explore what it means to live with vision in times of struggle—when the path is unclear, but the call to truth and love remains strong. Drawing from his book Dancing in the Darkness, Dr. Moss reflects on the experience of being Black and faithful in America, and how reclaiming the radical tradition of love—rooted in justice and courage—can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressor. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be ⁠found here⁠.

How do ordinary moments become portals to the sacred?  On this episode of Learning How to See, Carrie Newcomer joins Brian and Carmen for a  conversation-and-concert that explores “short-form empathy,” the contemplative power of music, and the everyday practice of seeing, and being seen, through eyes of love. Along the way Carrie performs two beloved songs,  sharing the stories that shaped them, and Carmen invites listeners into a simple chant that can travel with us on morning walks or difficult days. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Listen to the song Start With a Stone inspired by CAC’s Daily Meditations and co-written with the legendary John McCutcheon ⁠here⁠ Find the song I Do Not Know It's Name here Find the song It's Always Love here To learn more about Carrie Newcomer and her work, check out her website here. To learn more about Carmen Acevedo Butcher, check our her website here. To learn more about Brian McLaren, check out his website here.

What happens to your own humanity when you choose to truly see the humanity in others? In this episode, Jesuit priest Father Rafael Garcia joins Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore what it means to see through eyes of love—especially in a world that often teaches us to view immigrants, the incarcerated, and the marginalized with fear or indifference. Drawing from his work at the U.S.–Mexico border, his Cuban refugee roots, and stories of deep pastoral presence, Father Rafael shares how radical hospitality transforms both giver and receiver. Carmen reflects on her own awakening to shared humanity while serving in a women’s prison, paralleling Rafael’s shift from architectural comfort to spiritual solidarity. Together, they illuminate how true vision—grounded in Jesuit and Franciscan compassion—invites us not into pity, but into kinship and mutual transformation. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

Nadia Bolz Weber, a public theologian and volunteer chaplain, explores the transformative impact of grace on life and relationships. She shares personal anecdotes highlighting how compassion reshapes our perceptions of ourselves and others. The conversation also emphasizes the difference between gratitude and entitlement, advocating for mercy and love as tools for healing and connection. Through reflections on familial ties and political divides, she encourages listeners to cultivate grace in their interactions, illustrating love's profound and complex nature.

In this opening to Season 8, Learning How to See returns with understanding how to see with the eyes of love. On this season, Brian McLaren introduces his new co-host Dr. Carmen Acevedo Butcher—a scholar, translator, contemplative teacher, and birdwatching chocolate lover—and together, they launch the theme for this season: Seeing Through Eyes of Love. This episode weaves together personal storytelling, embodied spiritual practice, and reflection to explore how love can transform the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world. Your Practice for the Week: Once a day, notice something you’re seeing with judgment or indifference. Pause. Shift your gaze to see it with the eyes of love. Then try to “telescope out”: See yourself seeing with love. See others doing the same. Envision Divine Love witnessing it all. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠ Resources & Mentions: The transcript for this episode can be found here. In this episode, Carmen referenced the following: Dorothee Sölle – Death by Bread Alone Howard Thurman – Mysticism and the Experience of Love Brother Lawrence – The Practice of the Presence of God Meister Eckhart – on the “eye within me” Brian referenced the following: Richard Rohr’s Cosmic Egg – a framework of nested stories: My Story, Our Story, The Story (This is located in his book, The Wisdom Pattern.) 1 Corinthians 13 – closing reading on the nature of love

Can we cultivate a relationship with the natural world which mirrors the care and concern we would offer a dear friend? How do you foster hope in the midst of an unruly world?In this conversation, Brian McLaren is prompted by CAC Staff members Corey Wayne and Mike Petrow, to reflect on his journey from pastor to writer and public speaker. Brian discusses the interconnectedness of nature and spirituality, the need for respect and boundaries in our relationship with the natural world, and the urgency of advocating for environmental issues in light of current political and ecological challenges. The three discuss the historical context of the Desert Fathers and Mothers, the inescapability of our current crises, and the various responses individuals have to these challenges (fight, flight, freeze, flock). They explore the importance of community and connection in times of despair, emphasizing the role of love and nature in cultivating hope and resilience. The discussion leaves us asking how we can be better friends to the earth and to each other amidst the complexities of modern life.Resources:  The transcript for this episode can be found here.  Brian's book, Life After Doom is referenced in this episode. Connect with us:  Email us: podcasts@cac.org  Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail 

How important is community in facing the climate crisis? What kinds of communities are helping you to live differently and find hope?In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of a visionary. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Philip Clayton to discuss the urgent need for a shift in mindset, the transformative power of community, and the vital role of faith in building an ecological civilization.About the guest: Philip Clayton is a renowned scholar whose work spans philosophy, theology, and science, with a particular focus on ecotheology, exploring the intersection of climate science, ethics, religion, and social philosophy. Holding the Ingraham Chair at Claremont School of Theology and directing the PhD program in comparative theologies and philosophies, he has also taught at prestigious institutions like Yale, Williams College, and Harvard, publishing extensively with over two dozen books and 350 articles. Beyond academia, Clayton is the President of the Institute for Ecological Civilization (EcoCiv.org), working internationally to promote sustainable solutions, and also heads the Institute for the Postmodern Development of China, advocating for ecological civilization through various initiatives. When not immersed in scholarly pursuits, he enjoys cycling, refereeing soccer, and spending time outdoors with his family and dog.Resources:  The transcript for this episode can be found here.  Two of Brian's books have been referenced heavily this season. You can check them out at the following links, Life After Doom and The Galapagos Islands. To learn more about Philip, check out his website here. Find out more about musician April Stace here.   Books mentioned during the interview: What is Ecological Civilization? by Philip Clayton and Andrew Schwartz The New Possible: Visions of Our World Beyond Crisis (Edited by Philip Clayton) Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson Eaarth by Bill McKibben Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general?  Email us: podcasts@cac.org  Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail  We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

How can you apply Indigenous values like harmony, respect, and accountability to your own life and community? In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of an Indigenous Person. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Randy and Edith Woodley to discuss the importance of rediscovering Indigenous values to create a more harmonious relationship with the Earth and all its inhabitants. Randy and Edith Woodley recently released their book, Journey to Eloheh: How Indigenous Values Lead Us to Harmony and Well-Being. About the guests: Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley is an activist, scholar, author, teacher, wisdom-keeper, and Cherokee descendant recognized by the Keetoowah Band who speaks on justice, faith, the earth, and Indigenous realities. He is the author of numerous books, including Becoming Rooted and Shalom and the Community of Creation. He and his wife, Edith, co-sustain Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds outside Portland, Oregon.Edith Woodley is the cofounder and co-sustainer of Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. She was raised on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming and is a member of the Eastern Shoshone tribe. Woodley has a degree from Bacone College and mentors others in the spirituality of the land, farming methods, and seed-keeping. She is a leader in the Decolonizing with Badass Indigenous Grandmas cohort. She and her husband, Randy Woodley, have four grown children and six grandchildren.Resources:  The transcript for this episode can be found here.  Becoming Rooted by Randy Woodley was mentioned. You can find that here. Check out Randy and Edith Woodley’s new book, Journey to Eloheh here. Find out more about musician April Stace here.   Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general?  Email us: podcasts@cac.org  Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail  We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.