Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Parker J. Palmer, a Quaker elder and author, shares insights on seeing through the lens of love amid anger and division. He emphasizes the importance of listening to others' life stories to bridge divides and foster connection. Palmer reflects on his struggles with depression, offering a transformative view that sees it as a teacher. He advocates for grounded living, curiosity, and community discernment, urging listeners to confront their fears with support and to carry their wounds while seeking authenticity.

Cindy Lee, a spiritual director and scholar focused on BIPOC-centered spiritual formation, discusses the importance of de-Westernizing spirituality. She shares insights from her work with BIPOC communities, revealing limits in conventional spiritual formation. The conversation delves into the harm of the Western missionary gaze and emphasizes reclaiming cultural practices for healing. Cindy advocates for compassionate listening over problem-solving and highlights the importance of rest and small acts of kindness in building resilient communities.

How do we soften our hearts to those whose values are in stark contrast to our own? Can we safely love those who have even gone so far as to harm us? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cassidy Hall, author of Queering Contemplation, poses these tough questions to our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Together, they explore how we can respond with integrity when our deepest values are met with opposition.  Through personal stories, Brian and Carmen model ways in which they’ve grappled with loving in the face of persecution, strained family dynamics, and systemic incongruities with their own values. Resources: Discover more about Dr. Cassidy Hall ⁠here. Find the transcript of this episode⁠ here.⁠ Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠  Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  

How can we open ourselves to being hosts in the world?  On this episode of Learning How To See, we hear from social entrepreneur Becca Stevens, founder of Thistle Farms, a nonprofit which provides sanctuary, employment, and hope for women survivors of trafficking, exploitation, and addiction. Becca invites us to see holiness in unlikely places — just like the thistle growing through cracks in the pavement.  In the ninth season of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. Our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher reflect on what it means to stay present when love feels complicated.  Resources: Find out more about Becca here. Find out more about Thistle Farms here. Pick up a copy of Becca's book, Snake Oil, here. Find the transcript of this episode here. Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠  Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  

It can feel easy to offer compassion to others. But, why is it so hard to extend that same tenderness to ourselves?  In Season 9 of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. On this season premiere, author and storyteller Kaitlin Curtice joins our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore Indigenous wisdom, the Potawatomi language, and daily rituals of gratitude.   Resources: Learn more about Kaitlin Curtice here. Pick up a copy of Kaitlin's latest book, Everything is a Story, here. Join Kaitlin's Substack, The Liminality Journal, here. The transcript for this episode can be found here. Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?  Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ 

On our ninth season of Learning How to See, Brian McLaren and guest co-host, Carmen Acevedo Butcher, continue to explore seeing through eyes of love. Through openhearted conversation, podcast guests share experiences in which their lens of love became more finely tuned. We also share embodied practices to help you expand your own capacity to see and act through love, especially during uncertain and turbulent times.

Explore how love can navigate anger and injustice, even in politics. Reflect on personal stories of resilience, particularly from survivors of trauma and racism. Discover the balance between love and anger, emphasizing emotional honesty and communal support. The conversation dives into spiritual insights and mindful practices that foster compassion and positive change. Listen for poems that inspire reflection on the transformative power of love and the collective responsibility of embodying values like dignity and justice.

What would change if you could see with eyes of love—even in the face of cruelty, fear, and disagreement? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher sit down with renowned spiritual leader, legal advocate, and activist Sister Simone Campbell for a deeply honest conversation about love, justice, and compassion. They explore how contemplative practice grounds fierce activism, why listening is an act of love, and what it means to see even your political opponents with empathy. From her role in passing the Affordable Care Act to launching the "Nuns on the Bus" movement, Sister Simone shares moving stories of courage, community, and the Spirit’s surprising guidance—inviting us all into a new way of seeing and being. Resources: You can find a transcript for this episode here. Find Sr Simone Campbell's book Hunger for Hope here.

What would change if you believed that active, creative non-violence was the deepest expression of love? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher welcome legendary peace activist, Catholic priest, and author Fr. John Dear for an unflinching conversation about the cost—and the healing power—of universal non-violence. Together they explore how language shapes our discipleship, what it feels like to be seen with unconditional love, and why “live and stop the killing” may be the clearest way to describe love in action. Resources: Find out more about Fr. John Dear here. Find out more The Beatitudes Center for the Nonviolent Jesus: here. The transcript for this episode can be found here. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

How might your life change if you paused more often to unlearn what fear has taught you? In this episode, hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher are joined by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III. Together, they explore what it means to live with vision in times of struggle—when the path is unclear, but the call to truth and love remains strong. Drawing from his book Dancing in the Darkness, Dr. Moss reflects on the experience of being Black and faithful in America, and how reclaiming the radical tradition of love—rooted in justice and courage—can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressor. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be ⁠found here⁠.