
The Michael Shermer Show
The Michael Shermer Show is a series of long-form conversations between Dr. Michael Shermer and leading scientists, philosophers, historians, scholars, writers and thinkers about the most important issues of our time.
Latest episodes

Apr 14, 2020 • 1h 37min
111. Scott Barry Kaufman — Transcend: The New Science of Self-Actualization
When psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman first discovered Maslow’s unfinished theory of transcendence, sprinkled throughout a cache of unpublished journals, lectures, and essays, he felt a deep resonance with his own work and life. In this groundbreaking book, Kaufman picks up where Maslow left off, unraveling the mysteries of his unfinished theory, and integrating these ideas with the latest research on attachment, connection, creativity, love, purpose and other building blocks of a life well lived. Kaufman’s new hierarchy of needs provides a roadmap for finding purpose and fulfillment—not by striving for money, success, or “happiness,” but by becoming the best version of ourselves, or what Maslow called self-actualization. While self-actualization is often thought of as a purely individual pursuit, Maslow believed that the full realization of potential requires a merging between self and the world. We don’t have to choose either self-development or self-sacrifice, but at the highest level of human potential we show a deep integration of both. Transcend reveals this level of human potential that connects us not only to our highest creative potential, but also to one another. Shermer and Kaufman also discuss: human nature good and evil the good side of psychopathy the illusion of self as a useful fiction security, attachment, and self-esteem ego and narcissism how to quantify and measure internal states how to practice mindfulness without meditation humanistic psychology as a science-based alternative to religious practices characteristics of self-actualization how to be a self-actualized person. Scott Barry Kaufman, PhD is a humanistic psychologist who has taught at Columbia University, the University of Pennsylvania, NYU and elsewhere. He received his Ph.D. in cognitive psychology from Yale University, and an M.Phil in experimental psychology from the University of Cambridge under a Gates Cambridge Scholarship. He writes the column Beautiful Minds for Scientific American and hosts The Psychology Podcast, which has received more than 10 million downloads. His writing has appeared in The Atlantic and Harvard Business Review, and his books include Ungifted, Wired to Create (with Carolyn Gregoire), and, as editor, Twice Exceptional and, as co-editor, The Cambridge Handbook of Intelligence. In 2015, he was named one of “50 Groundbreaking Scientists who are changing the way we see the world” by Business Insider. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Mar 31, 2020 • 1h 27min
110. Bart Ehrman — Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife
According to a recent Pew Research poll, 72% of Americans believe in a literal heaven and 58% in a literal hell (more evidence of the over-optimism bias and self-serving bias). Worldwide, over two billion Christians believe that because of their faith they will have a glorious afterlife. And nearly everyone wonders about what, if anything, comes after death. In Heaven and Hell, renowned biblical scholar and historian of religion Dr. Bart Ehrman investigates the powerful instincts that gave rise to the common ideas of heaven and hell and that help them endure. From the Epic of Gilgamesh to the writings of Augustine, Ehrman recounts the long history of the life after death. In different times, places, and cultures, people held a wide variety of views, and Ehrman is adept at showing how these influenced one another and changed in response to their historical, social, and cultural situations. His driving question is why and how Christians came up with the idea that souls will experience either eternal bliss or everlasting torment. Ehrman shows that the historical Jesus, Paul, and the author of Revelation would have been utterly perplexed by such ideas. These ideas are later Christian developments. Shermer and Ehrman also discuss: Ehrman’s personal journey from Christian to nonbeliever the earliest writings on the afterlife why the Old Testament says nothing about Heaven and Hell what the New Testament says about Heaven and Hell early pagan influences on Judaism and Christianity who invented the afterlife and why what Jesus really said about the afterlife, souls, and immortality what commoners believed about the afterlife in Greek, Roman and biblical times myths, stories, and parables: their original meaning and use the real meaning of the resurrection Is the Kingdom of Heaven within us all? What does a nonbeliever say to a believer about the (non-existence) of the afterlife? Bart D. Ehrman is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity, and the author or editor of more than thirty books, including the New York Times bestsellers Misquoting Jesus, How Jesus Became God, and The Triumph of Christianity. A Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he has created eight popular audio and video courses for The Great Courses. He has been featured in Time, The New Yorker, and The Washington Post, and has appeared on NBC, CNN, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, the History Channel, the National Geographic Channel, BBC, and NPR.

Mar 24, 2020 • 1h 30min
109. Neil Shubin — Some Assembly Required: Decoding Four Billion Years of Life, from Ancient Fossils to DNA
The author of the best-selling Your Inner Fish gives us a lively and accessible account of the great transformations in the history of life on Earth — a new view of the evolution of human and animal life that explains how the incredible diversity of life on our planet came to be. Over billions of years, ancient fish evolved to walk on land, reptiles transformed into birds that fly, and apelike primates evolved into humans that walk on two legs, talk, and write. For more than a century, paleontologists have traveled the globe to find fossils that show how such changes have happened. We have now arrived at a remarkable moment — prehistoric fossils coupled with new DNA technology have given us the tools to answer some of the basic questions of our existence: How do big changes in evolution happen? Is our presence on Earth the product of mere chance? This new science reveals a multibillion-year evolutionary history filled with twists and turns, trial and error, accident and invention. In Some Assembly Required, Neil Shubin takes readers on a journey of discovery spanning centuries, as explorers and scientists seek to understand the origins of life’s immense diversity. Shermer and Shubin also discuss: Darwin’s consilience of inductions (convergence of evidence) from multiple lines of inquiry how a scientific theory can gain acceptance without an underlying causal mechanism (evolutionary theory before DNA) what scientists should do with anomalies unexplained by the prevailing theory Does ontogeny recapitulate phylogeny? (What can we learn about evolution from embryology?) What is epigenetics, anyway? the best explanation for the origins of life how information can increase in a genome from microevolution to macroevolution: why creationists are wrong Are there hopeful monsters in evolution? Punctuated equilibrium and what it was like to be Steve Gould’s TA women in science, then and now What it’s like to do a paleontological dig north of the arctic circle? and Martian paleontology. Neil Shubin is the author of Some Assembly Required, Your Inner Fish, and The Universe Within. He is the Robert R. Bensley Professor of Organismal Biology and Anatomy at the University of Chicago. He was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 2011. He lives in Chicago. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Mar 17, 2020 • 1h 13min
108. Brian Greene — Until the End of Time: Mind, Matter, and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe
Until the End of Time is Brian Greene’s breathtaking new exploration of the cosmos and our quest to find meaning in the face of this vast expanse. Greene takes us on a journey from the big bang to the end of time, exploring how lasting structures formed, how life and mind emerged, and how we grapple with our existence through narrative, myth, religion, creative expression, science, the quest for truth, and a deep longing for the eternal. From particles to planets, consciousness to creativity, matter to meaning—Brian Greene allows us all to grasp and appreciate our fleeting but utterly exquisite moment in the cosmos. Dr. Greene is a professor of physics and mathematics and director of Columbia University’s Center for Theoretical Physics and is renowned for his groundbreaking discoveries in superstring theory. He is the author of The Elegant Universe, The Fabric of the Cosmos, and The Hidden Reality, and he has hosted two Peabody and Emmy Award winning NOVA miniseries based on his books. With producer Tracy Day, Greene cofounded the World Science Festival. He lives in New York. Greene and Shermer also discuss: God and religion why there is something rather than nothing What was there before the Big Bang, and what caused it to bang? Are mathematics and the laws of nature human constructs or in nature? how the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is the First Law of Life How does consciousness arise from physical particles? panpsychism the Fermi Paradox (where is everybody?) the evolutionary origins of storytelling and myth making free will and determinism finding meaning in a meaningless universe Greene’s encounter with J.Z. Knight and her 35,000 year old spirit warrior Ramtha Terror Management Theory and the fear of death Are moral values human constructs and thus relative, or is there a secular/scientific basis for right and wrong? Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Mar 10, 2020 • 1h 20min
107. Fred Kaplan — The Bomb: Presidents, Generals, and the Secret History of Nuclear War
From the author of the classic The Wizards of Armageddon and Pulitzer Prize finalist comes the definitive history of American policy on nuclear war — and Presidents’ actions in nuclear crises — from Truman to Trump. Fred Kaplan takes us into the White House Situation Room, the Joint Chiefs of Staff’s “Tank” in the Pentagon, and the vast chambers of Strategic Command to bring us the untold stories — based on exclusive interviews and previously classified documents — of how America’s presidents and generals have thought about, threatened, broached, and just barely avoided nuclear war from the dawn of the atomic age until today. Kaplan’s historical research and deep reporting will stand as the permanent record of politics. Discussing theories that have dominated nightmare scenarios from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Kaplan presents the unthinkable in terms of mass destruction and demonstrates how the nuclear war reality will not go away, regardless of the dire consequences. Shermer and Kaplan also discuss: Dr. Strangelove The Doomsday Machine Mutual Assured Destruction game theory and the logic of deterrence proliferation, non-proliferation, and the evolution of nuclear weapons and strategy North Korea and why Kim Jong Un is not a madman President Trump and how he has reminded us that The Bomb is here to stay Israel and Iran Reagan and Gorbachev how conventional wars can escalate to nuclear war…but haven’t…yet, and why we will never get to Nuclear Zero. Fred Kaplan is the national-security columnist for Slate and the author of five previous books, Dark Territory: The Secret History of Cyber War, The Insurgents: David Petraeus and the Plot to Change the American Way of War (a Pulitzer Prize finalist and New York Times bestseller), 1959: The Year Everything Changed, Daydream Believers, and The Wizards of Armageddon. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Brooke Gladstone. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Mar 3, 2020 • 1h 38min
106. Daniel Chirot — You Say You Want a Revolution? Radical Idealism and its Tragic Consequences
Why have so many of the iconic revolutions of modern times ended in bloody tragedies? What lessons can be drawn from these failures today, in a world where political extremism is on the rise and rational reform based on moderation and compromise often seems impossible to achieve? In You Say You Want a Revolution?, Daniel Chirot examines a wide range of right- and left-wing revolutions around the world — from the late eighteenth century to today — to provide important new answers to these critical questions. From the French Revolution of the eighteenth century to the Mexican, Russian, German, Chinese, anticolonial, and Iranian revolutions of the twentieth, Chirot finds that moderate solutions to serious social, economic, and political problems were overwhelmed by radical ideologies that promised simpler, drastic remedies. But not all revolutions had this outcome. The American Revolution didn’t, although its failure to resolve the problem of slavery eventually led to the Civil War, and the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe was relatively peaceful, except in Yugoslavia. Chirot and Shermer also discuss: why violent radicalism, corruption, and the betrayal of ideals won in so many crucial cases, but why it didn’t in some others Did most Germans really believe in Nazi ideology or did they just go along out of social pressure and political convenience? No Hitler, No Holocaust? How do you get people to commit genocide? Anti-semitism in history and today how the logic of utopian radicalism leads to violence the difference in belief and action between Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky the difference between the American and French Revolutions We think of the American revolution as liberal, but its chief English defender, Edmund Burke, is the founder of modern conservatism. lessons to learn from centuries of violent vs. nonviolent revolutions. Daniel Chirot is the Herbert J. Ellison Professor of Russian and Eurasian Studies at the Henry Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington. He is the author of many books, most recently, The Shape of the New: Four Big Ideas and How They Made the Modern World (with Scott L. Montgomery) (Princeton), which was named one of the New York Times Book Review’s 100 Notable Books of the Year. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Feb 25, 2020 • 1h 42min
105. Diana Pasulka — American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology
More than half of American adults and more than 75 percent of young Americans believe in intelligent extraterrestrial life. This level of belief rivals that of belief in God. American Cosmicexamines the mechanisms at work behind the thriving belief system in extraterrestrial life, a system that is changing and even supplanting traditional religions. Over the course of a six-year ethnographic study, Dr. Pasulka interviewed successful and influential scientists, professionals, and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs who believe in extraterrestrial intelligence, thereby disproving the common misconception that only fringe members of society believe in UFOs. She argues that widespread belief in aliens is due to a number of factors including their ubiquity in modern media like The X-Files, which can influence memory, and the believability lent to that media by the search for planets that might support life. American Cosmic explores the intriguing question of how people interpret unexplainable experiences, and argues that the media is replacing religion as a cultural authority that offers believers answers about non-human intelligent life. Pasulka and Shermer also discuss: the definition of religion fictional religions and historical religions Jediism as a religion new religious movements and cults Mormonism and Christianity Scientology as a UFO religion how to be spiritual without religion Nietzsche, Jung, and archetypes scientific truths and mythical truths astronomical observatories and medieval cathedrals UFOs as Sky Gods for Skeptics; aliens as deities for atheists, and the rise of the Nones and the future of growth of new religions. Diana Pasulka is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina Wilmington, and chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion. Her current research focuses on religious and supernatural belief and practice and its connections to digital technologies and environments. She is the author and co-editor of numerous books and essays, the most recent of which are Believing in Bits: Digital Media and the Supernatural, co-edited with Simone Natalie and forthcoming from Oxford University Press, and Posthumanism: the Future of Homo Sapiens, co-edited with Michael Bess (2018). She is also a history and religion consultant for movies and television, including The Conjuring (2013) and The Conjuring II (2016). Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Feb 18, 2020 • 1h 25min
104. Judith Finlayson — You Are What Your Grandparents Ate: What You Need to Know About Nutrition, Experience, Epigenetics and the Origins of Chronic Disease
In this wide ranging conversation Judith Finlayson reviews the research she writes about in her new book that takes conventional wisdom about the origins of chronic disease and turns it upside down. Rooted in the work of the late epidemiologist Dr. David Barker, it highlights the research showing that heredity involves much more than the genes your parents passed on to you. Thanks to the relatively new science of epigenetics, we now know that the experiences of previous generations may show up in your health and well-being. Shermer and Finlayson discuss: epigenetics and the link to epidemiology why it is so difficult determining causality in medical sciences why correlation is not necessarily causation, but how it can be used to advise on diet and lifestyle changes How many of the risks for chronic diseases, including obesity, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and dementia, can be traced back to your first 1,000 days of existence, from the moment you were conceived? the association between these diseases and the experiences parents and even grandparents had fruits and vegetables or meat and fat? how poverty affects epigenetics, and epigenetic exaggerations and incautious extrapolations — no miracles promised! Judith Finlayson is a bestselling author who has written books on a variety of subjects, from personal well-being and women’s history to food and nutrition. She is a former national newspaper columnist for The Globe and Mail, magazine journalist and board member of various organizations focusing on legal, medical and women’s issues. Judith lives in Toronto, Canada. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Feb 11, 2020 • 1h 49min
103. Robert Frank — Under the Influence: Putting Peer Pressure to Work
Psychologist Robert Frank discusses the power of social context in influencing behavior, focusing on climate-friendly policies, solar panels, and electric cars. The conversation also touches on peer pressure, positive behavioral externalities, moral progress, energy options, and ethical considerations like organ selling. Exploring societal influences on safety measures, dietary choices, and economic values, the podcast delves into balancing individual choices with collective impact.

13 snips
Feb 4, 2020 • 1h 45min
102. Christopher Ryan — Civilized to Death: The Price of Progress
Most of us have instinctive evidence the world is ending — balmy December days, face-to-face conversation replaced with heads-to-screens zomboidism, a world at constant war, a political system in disarray. We hear some myths and lies so frequently that they feel like truths: Civilization is humankind’s greatest accomplishment. Progress is undeniable. Count your blessings. You’re lucky to be alive here and now. Well, maybe we are and maybe we aren’t. Civilized to Deathcounters the idea that progress is inherently good, arguing that the “progress” defining our age is analogous to an advancing disease. Prehistoric life, of course, was not without serious dangers and disadvantages. Many babies died in infancy. A broken bone, infected wound, snakebite, or difficult pregnancy could be life-threatening. But ultimately, Ryan argues, were these pre-civilized dangers more murderous than modern scourges, such as car accidents, cancers, cardiovascular disease, and a technologically prolonged dying process? In Civilized to Death, Ryan makes the claim that we should start looking backwards to find our way into a better future. Ryan and Shermer also discuss: human nature: peaceful or violent? humans: spectrum or binary? what hunter-gatherers were really like and why it is so hard to know hunter-gatherers and…children, women, the elderly, sex, religion, politics and economics how egalitarian were hunter-gatherers? why hunter-gatherers don’t think of work as “work” in the way we do the lottery test: if you won the lottery would you work at your job, live in your neighborhood, live your life? was civilization the biggest mistake humans ever made? the “Big Gods” theory of religion vs. the communal theory of religion, and how we can learn from our ancestors to lead more balanced and healthier lives. Christopher Ryan, Ph.D., and his work have been featured on MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, NPR, The New York Times, The Times of London, Playboy, The Washington Post, Time, Newsweek, The Atlantic, Outside, El Pais, La Vanguardia, Salon, Seed, and Big Think. A featured speaker from TED to The Festival of Dangerous Ideas at the Sydney Opera House to the Einstein Forum in Pottsdam, Germany, Ryan has consulted at various hospitals in Spain, provided expert testimony in a Canadian constitutional hearing, and appeared in well over a dozen documentary films. Ryan puts out a weekly podcast, called Tangentially Speaking, featuring conversations with interesting people, ranging from famous comics to bank robbers to drug smugglers to porn stars to authors to plasma physicists. Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.