
The Ownership Economy
Welcome to the Ownership Economy podcast, the podcast that explores the people and ideas that are utilizing technology, economics, and the law to reimagine how the economy can work for everyone. Here we connect with the entrepreneurs, investors, thought-leaders, academics, and politicians that are constructing a better economy, one based on broad-based ownership and democratic governance. Hosted by Martin Smith and Jahed Momand, two investors and operators that aim to use this platform to showcase the people and ideas that will shape more inclusive economies.
Latest episodes

Mar 25, 2022 • 1h 12min
Episode 008 - The Future of Work, DAOs, and Verifiable Credentials with James Young of Abridged
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with James Young from Abridged, the developers of the popular Collab.land software that many digital communities are using to engage, grow, and coordinate their members. In the conversation, James traces his arc from software engineer on Farmville in the early days of Zynga and how those experiences with Web 2.0 companies shaped his focus on the promise of user-owned digital communities, eventually settling on tools that help communities own their own data and experiences. This episode provides a peek at the future of work enabled by data economies in web3 and will be useful to founders and entrepreneurs who want insights into how the unique interactions enabled by web3 wallets can create new trails of data and economic value both for users and platforms.
Here are the show notes:
James talks on decentralizing collabland
James on Twitter
The DAO and the DAO Hack
MolochDAO explainer
Episode 2 of this podcast on exit to community with Pia Mancini
Episode 1 of this podcast on exit to community with Nathan Schneider
What is Collab.land?

Mar 18, 2022 • 53min
Episode 007 - Bootstrapping Digital Communities of Abundance with Mark Beylin of Myco
In this episode, Martin and Jahed chat with Mark Beylin, co-founder and CEO of Myco, where communities can bootstrap themselves with labor, co-own the business they launch, and not be beholden to the platform economics of the last wave of the internet. In the conversation, we cover how communities can use Myco’s unique LLC structure to protect themselves from liability while they extend ownership and upside to the people who contribute to it, how governance in these communities works, and how to build communities that last for decades by taking a long term, dilutive view of stakeholder ownership. Founders, entrepreneurs, and DAO contributors will get a peak at how an ostensibly web3 community is building front-end products that do not require any of the clunky UX that we’ve become accustomed to in web3, and can learn from the myco blueprint on how they might form tokenized digital communities.
Here are the show notes:
The Myco Blueprint
Dilutive DAOs: Building a Community in Perpetuity
The Crypto-Social (R)evolution
Join a Myco community

Mar 11, 2022 • 55min
Episode 006 - Worker Ownership and the future of the “Gig Economy” with Jason Prado of the Driver’s Cooperative
In this episode, Martin and Jahed sit down with Jason Prado, Director of Platform at the Driver’s Cooperative, to chat about the history of worker-owned cooperatives, the failure modes of the gig economy, and the challenges of building a cooperative in the current funding ecosystem. In the conversation, they cover the market competitiveness of the cooperative form, access to financing options that are uniquely available to cooperatives (and barriers to accessing them), and what governance innovations in web3, such as DAOs, might indicate for worker-owned initiatives in the future.
Here are the show notes:
DAOs are interesting, likely, and terrifying by Jason Prado
The DAO of decentralization: Can co-ops thrive on the blockchain?
What Co-ops and DAOs Can Learn From Each Other
https://gnosisguild.mirror.xyz/t4F5rItMw4-mlpLZf5JQhElbDfQ2JRVKAzEpanyxW1Q
The Drivers Cooperative is helping drivers escape the gig economy. But it needs to overcome major obstacles before it can compete with Uber and Lyft.

Mar 4, 2022 • 42min
Episode 005 - Building and Funding the Digital Commons Together with Kevin Owocki of Gitcoin
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with Kevin Owocki, co-founder and CEO of Gitcoin, a community developing digital public goods that has put $52 million in the open source ecosystem's hands since its founding. In the conversation, Kevin covers how Gitcoin's mission came to be, why its important to fund public goods, and the bleeding edge of democratic governance innovations Gitcoin is spurring on with quadratic funding and quadratic voting with Gitcoin Grants. This episode provides a unique view behind the scenes of a thriving, well-funded community experimenting with new democratic methods that politicians, technologists, and founders seeking to expand the agency of their community can borrow from.
Here are the show notes:
Elastic and AWS open source battle
The crusade against Open Source abuse
Grounding decentralised technologies in cooperative principles: What can “Decentralised Autonomous Organisations” (DAOs) and platform cooperatives learn from each other?
A comparative analysis of the platforms for decentralized autonomous organizations in the Ethereum blockchain
Gitcoin Grants Case Study

Feb 25, 2022 • 54min
Episode 004 - DAOs vs. Cooperatives: An Exploration of Legal, Economic, and Financing Strategies with Jason Wiener
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with Jason Wiener, an attorney at Jason Wiener p.c. He is a social entrepreneur, advisor and a long time board member to renowned digital platform cooperatives, including Stocksy United. In the conversation, Jason discusses the history of the cooperative movement and how this traditional structure can inform new organizational designs such as Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAOs). In so doing, this episode provides entrepreneurs and investors with insight into the technical and legal innovations, opportunities, risks and limits of these new organizational designs.
Here are the show notes:
Jason Wiener Firm
The Main Street Phoenix Project
What Can 'Decentralised Autonomous Organisations' (DAOs) and Platform Cooperatives Learn from Each Other?
Wyoming DAO Law

Feb 18, 2022 • 1h 4min
Episode 003 - Actually Existing DeFi Banking Solutions for the Unbanked, with Jordi Riulas of EthicHub
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with Jordi Riulas, angel investor, entrepreneur, and board member at EthicHub. In the conversation, Jordi covers how EthicHub's DeFi platform is leading the regenerative finance movement by helping investors provide loans to unbanked coffee cooperatives in Mexico, creating a circular economy for their products in the EU and the US, and turning over ownership and governance to the farmers themselves with the Ethix platform token. It's a fascinating case study in co-designing products with communities, learning and iterating, and picking objectives that benefit not only your company, but the community that contributes value to it over the long term.Here are the show notes:
Regenerative Finance Movement
Applied Regenerative Economics
The Regenerative Finance DAO
EthicHub
Buy coffee on EthicHub direct from coffee cooperatives in Chiapas
Jordi Riulas on Instagram and LinkedIn
Not-fit-for-purpose: multi-stakeholder initiatives and the pathway forward
Climate Change And The Circular Economy

Feb 9, 2022 • 1h 10min
Episode 002 - Democratizing Ownership and Governance via Exit to Community with Pia Mancini
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with Pia Mancini, co-founder and CEO of Open Collective. In the conversation, we explore Pia's early work broadening access to democratic governance and starting a digital-first political party in Argentina, borderless democracy, commons-based projects, and the future of Open Collective as a community-owned project as it explores Nathan Schneider and co-authors vision for exit-to-community.
Here are the show notes:
Pathways for Open Collective’s “Exit to Community”
Early musings on "Exit to Community" for Open Collective
How to upgrade democracy for the Internet era (TED Talk)
Exit to Community: A Primer
Steward Ownership

Feb 9, 2022 • 1h 2min
Episode 001 - Cryptoeconomics, Economic Democracy, and Networked Governance in Web3 with Nathan Schneider
In this episode, Martin & Jahed sit down with Nathan Schneider, Assistant Professor of Media Studies at UC-Boulder, the co-author of Exit to Community, and principal invesigator of the Metagovernance Project. In the conversation, we cover the history of the cooperative movement, what DAOs and cooperatives can learn from each other, the perils of digital governance design, and the future of community-based democratic governance.
Here are the show notes:
Beyond Cryptoeconomics: Platform Cooperativism and the Future of Blockchain Governance
Article on a democratic counterpart to venture capital for financing, and a software stack that supports creative democratic governance
Cryptoeconomics as a limitation of governance
Cryptoeconomics is fundamentally about the use of economic incentives together with cryptography to design and secure different kinds of systems and applications.” - Buterin 2018
A Pre-History of DAOs by Kei Kreutler
DAOs are the natural evolution of organizational forms after tribes, institutions, markets, and networks.
A Preface to Economic Democracy by Robert Dahl
A functional political economic liberal democracy might require economic democracy and other mechanism designs
Markets in the Name of Socialism: The left-wing origins of neoliberalism by Johanna Bockman (George Mason)
How functional markets require competition, and what market socialism organizational forms can teach us about current democratic forms