If you’ve recently chatted with a well-informed liberal – the kind who reads the NY Times or watches PBS NewsHour – you’ve heard encouraging things about the economy. You’ve heard that Biden’s doing a good job. Unemployment has gone down, wages have gone up. Why can’t you be happy about it all?To celebrate all this good news, we brought back our friend, Yeva Nersisyan, associate professor of economics at Franklin and Marshall College, research scholar at the Levy Institute, and frequent collaborator with MMT OG Randy Wray.Yes, unemployment rates are lower, but we know those numbers don’t tell the true story. Or have you already forgotten our episode with Pavlina, just two short weeks ago? Yes, wages have gone up. But so has inflation. And in the race between inflation and wages, inflation is winning. Speaking of which, our Macro N Cheese family knows that one thing worse than inflation is the Fed’s cure for it.In this episode, Steve and Yeva look at the disconnect between the ongoing immiseration of the working class and the rosy scenario painted by politicians, pundits, and economists. At least one of those groups should know better. They discuss the looming student debt crisis, and the effect of the Fed’s interest rate hikes on student loans.When discussing MMT-informed solutions, Yeva warns:“You have to be consistent — whether it's the Trump tax cuts, whether it's the social security question. And you have to consistently say: the question of taxes and government spending, it should not be about deficits, should not be about debt, it should be about: is this the right thing for the economy? Is this what the people want? Is this what the people need? That's what you need to start with. And just because you want to raise taxes on the wealthy, which I do too, but I don't want to tie it to things like social security, because I think that's just a losing argument, and that's just not true.”MMT points toward answers, if anyone is asking.Yeva Nersisyan is an associate professor of economics at Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster, PA, and a research scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College.

It’s always interesting to get the insights of someone whose job places them near the beating heart of the imperial behemoth. Especially when they’ve begun to pull back the curtain and take a hard look at reality. Paul Gambles lives in Thailand where he specializes in emerging markets with MBMG Group.Paul and Steve talk about the clarity that MMT provides. The public is kept intentionally misinformed by a mainstream narrative purposely obscuring the power relations of the capital order.Paul describes capital flight in developing nations and how the US gains and maintains economic control through dollar hegemony, international institutions like IMF, and military aggression. The western system imposes itself on emerging markets as if drawing them into a warm pool of water, a step at a time. Once they are in the system, they find it is shark infested.The discussion covers conditions that led to the banding together of BRICS to create an alternative pathway to the US-dominated system. Paul warns that western hegemony is not going to surrender easily and is practicing economic terrorism against emerging markets trying to disentangle themselves from dollar hegemony.“I don't believe that anybody can hand on heart say that there's no connection whatsoever with the BRICS attempts to disentangle themselves from Western commercial, economic, and currency hegemony and the actions that we've seen in terms of American geopolitics in and around the Ukraine and in and around the South China Sea ... I think we're seeing it move into a geopolitical and into a military sphere, and I think that's terrifying.”Just like old-fashioned colonialism, the US is engaging in a form of value extraction and will use all the means at its disposal to continue the plunder.Paul Gambles is the Co-Founder of MBMG GROUP and a Director and Chief Investment Officer of MBMG Investment Advisory, a SEC regulated investment advisor. Find Paul’s articles on https://mbmg.substack.com/@PaulGambles2 on Twitter

When economist Pavlina Tcherneva was last on this podcast, we were a few months into the pandemic. She and Steve talked about nationalizing payroll and the heightened need for a federal job guarantee during a time of crisis.In this episode, the neoliberal approach to unemployment comes under scrutiny. Pavlina explains the inadequacy of official unemployment data. She looks at the problem from several angles, including geography, demographics, and of course, economics.Pavlina and Steve discuss MMT, the politics of NAIRU, and the debt ceiling. They look at a job guarantee as an automatic stabilizer, similar to entitlements like social security and unemployment insurance, possibly shielding it from shifting political tides.Pavlina tells Steve about her collaboration with the Democratizing Work Initiative, a group of academics who are organizing around the principles of democratizing work, decommodifying labor, and decarbonizing the planet.Pavlina Tcherneva is an Associate Professor of Economics at Bard College, the Director of OSUN’s Economic Democracy Initiative, and a Research Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute, NY.  She specializes in modern money and public policy. Find her work at pavlina-tcherneva.net@ptcherneva on Twitter

“We've all got that cop in our head that wants us to see a world full of threats and emergencies.”Steve’s guest, David Correia, is co-author (with Tyler Wall) of Police: A Field Guide. Listeners to the podcast probably understand the role of police is to protect capital, not ensure the safety of the citizens.“...from the railroad strikes of 1877 to the anthracite strike of 1902, it was just this unruly world of labor asserting itself, demanding higher wages, refusing to go back to work, and progressives were among the most effective political force in developing a new order. And that new order required a different cop.”Despite occasional protests and demands for reform, we always end up with more police and more police brutality. Police reformists prioritize law and order over justice, which is why they fear abolition. David asks us to define what order and disorder is. “Because usually cops produce the disorder that they then resolve.” The very language of reform legitimizes the police.David Correia is a writer and professor of American studies at the University of New Mexico. He is the author of a number of books, and co-author, along with Tyler Wall, of "Police: A Field Guide." He is the recipient of a Ford Fellowship, a Henry Belin du Pont Fellowship, and a Lannan Residency Fellowship.

Dr. Yan Liang joins Steve to talk about China’s role in the global economy and the concept of “de-dollarization.” It’s refreshing to hear a discussion of these issues without hyperbole, but you know that already; that’s why you come to Macro N Cheese.Countries of the global south have suffered chronic debt and financial crises due to the neoliberal regime of the US and its allies. After the 2008 financial crisis, China has been diversifying its foreign exchange reserves and establishing currency swaps with more trading partners. The goal is to dilute the power of the dollar and temper US hegemony with a more stable and development-friendly system.Yan and Steve consider the loss of jobs in the US – a consequence of perpetual trade deficits. She maintains that the competition is not between domestic and foreign production, but between high financial returns and real productive capacity.The episode looks at China’s future role in global trade and finance, and how it might provide support and relief to developing nations. The conversation also touches on the flaws of the Western-led multilateral lending system and the need for alternatives.Dr. Yan Liang of Willamette University specializes in Post Keynesian-Institutionalist approach to international trade and finance, financial macroeconomics, and economic development with a regional focus on China.@YanLian31677392

Dr. Lin Zhang talks with Steve about her book "The Labor of Reinvention: Entrepreneurship in the New Chinese Digital Economy."Her book includes stories of individuals who transformed themselves and their lives to take advantage of this new global economy. She tells of Min, a former prisoner...“I think Min's story in a way captures the sort of imperative of entrepreneurialism in which we are all still living. The contemporary capitalist economy. The need to kind of keep reinventing oneself to adapt to the constant changes, but also the kind of contradiction generated on personal and collective level. So, the coexistence of opportunities, risk and frustrations. So this is, I think, what I try to document in the book, the everyday labor of entrepreneurial reinvention.”Dr. Zhang and Steve discuss the support provided by the state, which is no small matter. It makes entrepreneurism in China different from that of the US, or from India or developing countries of the global South.Zhang also talks about the roots of Chinese nationalism in China's socialist anti-imperialist history, which are reinforced by recent American sanctions and containment of China.Zhang argues that the US tends to view China through a simplistic lens of authoritarianism versus democracy, while the majority of Chinese people do not see their relationship with the party state in such terms. She provides a more nuanced picture of the Chinese state, discussing the competing demands of the central government to maintain economic development, social equity, and national security, as well as the discrepancies between central and local states.Dr. Lin Zhang is an assistant professor of communication and media studies at the University of New Hampshire. She graduated from the Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism, University of Southern California, with a PhD in Communication, and MA from NYU’s Department of Media, Culture, and Communication. She is the author of The Labor of Reinvention: Entrepreneurship in the New Chinese Digital Economy, one of the first multi-sited ethnographic accounts of the rising entrepreneurial labor in urban, rural, and transnational China since tech innovation had accelerated in the country after 2008.https://linzhangweb.org

**Check out the section of “Extras,” where you will find resources for further information about topics touched on in this episode. Transcripts are available for this and every episode. https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/It’s been almost two years since we’ve had German economist Dirk Ehnts on the podcast. This episode can be seen as part of Steve’s ongoing look at “dedollarization” and what it means to be the world’s reserve currency. They turn the MMT lens toward the Eurozone, comparing governments’ responses to the pandemic, inflation, and the treatment of labor.“So of course the labor laws are different in Germany compared to Italy, to France and so on. If the French workers go on strikes, they burn stuff. It's always amazing for us Germans to see it happening, but their productivity is even higher. So maybe German workers should burn stuff when they go on strike. So that increases productivity.No, I'm just joking. I never said that!"Dirk talks about changes in regulations on deficit spending and his belief that the ECB understands MMT, as evidenced by their support of national governments during economic crises. When monetary sovereignty was returned to Eurozone countries over a four-year period, “the results were pretty good.” They now have a lower rate of unemployment than ever before. It’s still high... but not as high as before. He thinks inequality is not quite so bad as in the US and explains why this is.Steve and Dirk discuss how Europe is affected by the US Fed’s raising of interest rates. “So it's just giving money to people who have money like Warren (Mosler) always says.” But ultimately, “the net effect is that we have roughly zero growth in the European economy.”Dr. Dirk H. Ehnts holds a PhD in Economics from the University of Oldenburg and a diploma in economics from the University of Göttingen. A heterodox economist, he is one of the leading proponents of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT).  He has taught classes on macroeconomics, money and currency, European and global economics, and the origins of political economy at a number of institutions. Every summer since 2016 Dirk has held a course on Modern Monetary Theory at the Summer School of Maastricht University and has published numerous articles in specialist journals and daily newspapers.https://www.dirk-ehnts.de/en-us/@DEhnts on Twitter

New Zealander Bijou Smith is a longtime friend of Steve and the podcast. His story, in brief: “I was a physicist. I love physics, theoretical physics, but when I learned a bit about economics—I was always interested in economics from a sort of dynamical systems analysis perspective. It's kind of interesting mathematics. Even the neoclassical stuff is interesting for a little while until you realize it's a joke. But then when I heard about MMT, a lot of the pieces clicked into placed and it's like, wow, this is really the struggle.” MMT is a bell that can’t be unrung.Steve and Bijou talk of popular concern about the petrodollar, and how economic illiteracy distorts its importance. The role of the US dollar in global political economy is poorly understood without the insights of MMT.Smith criticizes the false psychology that views currency as a finite resource and is locked into the image of fixed exchange rates. He argues that this creates mental models that are not true but are still played out as if they are. He distinguishes between false conceptions of dollar hegemony and the very real struggles that countries face when they are indebted to the IMF and believe the imposition of austerity is the only way out.The discussion looks at the way foreign exchange rates affect and do not affect national economies. Smith explains that this process does not have anything to do with confidence in a particular currency. It is a market-making activity.Those who follow us know that Steve has long been searching for a way to bring the understanding of MMT to the left. This episode is a continuation of that journey.Bijou Smith has lectured and taught general physics, magnetohydrodynamics, undergrad mathematics, statistics and IT. He now devotes most of his time to independent research in theoretical physics and studying implications of Modern Monetary Theory. Check out his blog, Ohanga Pai, at bijou.substack.com@MathWillSuffice on Twitter

If you’re one of the lucky ones who attended our webinar, RP Live with Clara E. Mattei, then you’ve already heard this episode. Or you may have watched the video of that event. This podcast episode is the audio version, but we’re asking you to play it anyway. It never hurts to hear information a few times, and by playing it, you’re also helping us grow Macro N Cheese. Because algorithms.On Tuesday, May 2nd, Professor Mattei will be joining us for the first of two sessions of RP Book Club on The Capital Order: How Economists Invented Austerity and Paved the Way to Fascism. There’s still time to register using the link at the bottom of this page.At the end of The Capital Order Mattei writes:"This book has detailed a set of influential economic patterns that are pervasive across the globe and that shape our daily lives. Contrary to what the proponents of austerity would have us think, however, the socioeconomic system we live in is not inevitable, nor is it to be grudgingly accepted as the only way forward. Austerity is a political project arising out of the need to preserve capitalist class relations of domination. It is the outcome of collective action to foreclose any alternatives to capitalism. It can thus be subverted through collective counteraction. The study of its logic and purpose is the first step in that direction."Join us for RP Book Club, May 2nd and 16th. To register, go to https://realprogressives.org/rp-book-club/Clara E. Mattei is an Assistant Professor in the Economics Department of The New School for Social Research and was a 2018-2019 member of the School of Social Sciences at the Institute for Advanced Studies. Her research contributes to the history of capitalism, exploring the critical relation between economic ideas and technocratic policy making.@claraemattei on Twitterhttps://realprogressives.org/podcast_episode/episode-198-the-trinity-of-austerity-with-clara-mattei/

Carl Zha brings us his knowledge of China, the US, and global political economic relations. He also brings his exquisite sense of the absurd.Exactly one year ago, Carl and Steve recorded their marathon discussion of Chinese history, resulting in three episodes about Mao. This time, they have Taiwan in their sights. Just like Joe Biden.Official US policy on Taiwan is just ambiguous enough to allow plenty of shenanigans, despite recognizing “one China” since the 1970s.“We know how the Cold War 1.0 played out. We isolated the Soviet Union and Soviet bloc. We cut off all the trade and then eventually the Soviet Union collapsed. This is how we won the Cold War 1.0. So we'll just play the same playbook to win Cold War 2.0 against China. But this is crazy talk because China is nothing like Soviet Union of the yester years; China is the world's largest trading economy. It has trade not just with United States and Europe but also has a huge trade with the global south. So, what the US is doing in its attempted decoupling from China, actually it's cutting US off from the rest of the world.”The United States has gone from being a major industrial power to being a service economy with a neglected, crumbling infrastructure. China is building economic relationships around the world “without tanks and nuclear arms and planes,” says Steve. “China has been working in a much more cooperative way and people are lining up to say, ‘sign me up. I don't want the US having its hands on me.’”The conversation covers the economic and political implications of this reversal of fortune. With their massive exports to the US, China has accumulated vast amounts of US dollars. The 2008 financial crisis supplied impetus for China to seek new uses for their dollars reserves. Carl explains the Belt and Road Initiative and its multifaceted benefits.Carl Zha hosts Silk and Steel, a weekly podcast discussing history, culture, and current events of China and the Silk Road. Support him at patreon.com/silknsteel. His YouTube channel is https://www.youtube.com/@CarlZha.@CarlZha on Twittert.me/CarlZha on Telegram