

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Legal Talk Network
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 5, 2025 • 34min
Diddy Lawyer Decides He Gotta Move On
And the new USNWR rankings are dealing with some crazy data.-----We're not saying Diddy is an unsavory client, but we are saying Osama bin Laden's lawyer just noped out of continuing to represent him. We also got some limited insight into the US News rankings and there's some potential tumult at the top. And Judge Reyes had to blow up a hapless DOJ lawyer trying to defend the indefensible and the Trump administration displayed its inner snowflake.

Feb 26, 2025 • 34min
Who Needs Caselaw Anyway?
The new federal deficit is the government's research deficit.-----Elon Musk's aimless cost-cutting escapades turn to the SEC where DOGE slashed their Westlaw access because no one over there is smart enough to know how legal research works. Apparently now is an opportune time to start committing securities fraud! Speaking of aimless, former judge Alex Kozinski penned a meandering opinion piece about canceling elections in case, maybe, some president might want to consider it. And a few law schools quietly reworked their websites to remove diversity language. They probably won't be the last.

Feb 19, 2025 • 35min
Someone Needs To Come Get These Junior Associates
'Nah, you do that' is not a response that keeps lawyers employed.-----Imagine the audacity it takes for a rookie lawyer to refuse to do the work assigned by a midlevel or senior associate. And expect to keep their job? The story of a beleaguered midlevel asking for help with an unruly junior refusing to work has us wondering if the kids are not all right. Also the administration starts calling for impeachment when a judge imposes a TRO of less than a week and that doesn't bode well for when they start losing real injunctions. And is there any legal question simpler than "the Twenty-Second Amendment limits presidents to two terms"?

Feb 12, 2025 • 34min
Insurer Spending On Lawyers Rather Than, You Know, Healthcare
And Biglaw begins adjusting to Trump era.------If United Healthcare considered spending more on a cancer patient and less on lawyers to sue doctors for pointing out they didn't spend on the cancer patient they wouldn't be getting so thoroughly dragged online. While the mockery they're getting is funny, this underscores the dangerous weaponization of defamation (and also copyright) laws, allowing deep pocketed antagonists to squelch criticism by filing low merit suits. Also, a Biglaw firm quietly scrubbed its website of a lot of its "diversity" language as the government steps up threats against private companies. And the ABA thinks the Supreme Court needs ethical rules.Chapters0:00 Small Talk9:50 UnitedHealthcare15:46 DEI21:03 Top Law Firm Representing Trump23:47 ABA’s Stance on Supreme Court Ethics

Feb 5, 2025 • 49min
400th Episode Spectacular
Getting the band back together.-----A jumbo sized episode this week as Thinking Like A Lawyer celebrates its 400th episode with a look back at some big changes in law firms, law schools, and the courts that have unfolded over its last 10 years of podcasting. Original co-host Elie Mystal from The Nation joins the gang to share his thoughts. He's not particularly optimistic.

Jan 29, 2025 • 37min
First Thing We Do, Let's Fire All The Lawyers
Government lawyer purge creates chaos-----Trump administration slashes jobs for young lawyers months before they officially start sparking a scramble for jobs. The Justice Department followed up that news by terminating career DOJ lawyers for the sin of having worked on Trump's criminal cases. One Biglaw firm informs its associates that they're not getting their full bonuses based on office attendance. While we're at it... should lawyers rely on law firm bonuses anyway? And a professor gets disciplined for political comments raising the debate: what exactly constitutes a violation of academic freedom?

Jan 22, 2025 • 33min
Tom Goldstein Should've Stuck With High Stakes Go Fish
You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em.------Supreme Court litigator Tom Goldstein, co-founder of SCOTUSblog, is on the wrong side of the law facing a multi-count indictment related to the alleged fallout of a hard-core gambling lifestyle. All while routinely arguing multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Legen...wait for it...dary. Also Proskauer proves that every rose has its thorn and Yale stares down on of the most epic downgrades in law school history.

Jan 15, 2025 • 30min
Back To The Office Blues
Attorneys yearn for the commute.-----Sullivan & Cromwell are bringing attorneys back to the office five days a week. The stated reason is to mirror "normal business hours" which is a cruel joke in an abnormal business hour industry. Democratic Party superlawyer Marc Elias faces an uprising at his firm after staff proposed a mandatory arbitration agreement despite many of his top clients openly campaigning on... banning mandatory arbitration agreements. Finally, Wilson Sonsini hands out bonuses but pulls a fast one with special payments.

Jan 8, 2025 • 35min
Judges Decide Clarence Thomas Was Just Confused When He Didn't Report All That Money
Statutes are hard.-----Apparently, Clarence Thomas just didn't understand how to read the nearly 50-year-old statute requiring him to report massively expensive gifts. That's the Judicial Conference's official take in a new letter to the Senate panel looking into the ethical cesspool. The letter becomes public just as Chief Justice Roberts releases his annual report asserting that most criticism of the Court should be seen as improper intimidation and even violence. Before the holidays, we discussed Biglaw firms bucking the trend and not paying out special bonuses. Happy to report that they've reversed course.

Dec 26, 2024 • 35min
Ho, Ho, Ho-Cast
A very jolly podcast.-----It's a very special holiday episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer with three straight "Ho" stories. First, Hogan Lovells irks associates with a bonus announcement without matching the industry standard special bonuses. Meanwhile, law enforcement just can't help making Luigi Mangione look more like a sexy martyr and now someone claiming to be UnitedHealthcare is trying to assert ownership of his likeness. And Judge James Ho walks back his prior support for birthright citizenship now that it might cost him a job on the Supreme Court.