

Mindful Money
Jonathan DeYoe
Do you struggle with money? You’re not alone. Money is a means, not an end. It’s a necessity of life for sure, but more money does not always guarantee a “good life”. Money enables many aspects of modern life, but as a dominant consideration it becomes destructive. The paradox is that more time and energy spent on personal finance does NOT create better outcomes. Unlike many other parts of life, we can’t create better outcomes by being smarter, spending more time, or putting in more effort. Join Mindful Money author and experienced 40-year investor Jonathan DeYoe as he shares stories from artists, authors, entrepreneurs, and other advisors about how they mindfully minimize their need to think about money and get more out of life. If you aren’t happy with your finances, feel like money takes more time that it should, or want to place your financial decisions into the broader context of your life, this show is for you. Each episode will draw the line between the “enough” activities that the academics tell us are additive to family outcomes, and those “little bit more” efforts that take time and sap energy, but do NOT improve outcomes.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 7, 2025 • 41min
Aaron Miller — Navigating Elder Law and Estate Planning with Aaron Miller
Aaron R. Miller is an award-winning Elder Law and Estate Planning Attorney dedicated to helping families with long-term care. After starting his career in corporate litigation, he shifted his focus to avoid the high costs of long-term care, inspired by his grandparents’ struggles. Miller Law Office has been named the Best Law Firm in Plano for three consecutive years, known for building strong relationships and providing services like Medicaid planning and family harmony protection.
In this episode of Mindful Money, I talk with Aaron about the financial and emotional complexities of long-term care. Aaron shares powerful personal stories, including his mother’s struggle with dementia, and offers guidance on protecting family assets, qualifying for Medicaid, and using long-term care insurance wisely. We discuss common pitfalls, like failing to fund a trust or cashing out IRAs too soon, and Aaron outlines the six primary care options as we age. Whether you’re planning for your parents or your own future, this conversation is packed with insight, heart, and actionable advice.
In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:02) - Meet Aaron Miller
(02:08) - Aaron’s early life and money lessons
(04:16) - Couponing and frugality growing up
(08:37) - Aaron’s path to elder law and estate planning
(13:29) - Different types of elder care options
(15:20) - Caring for a parent with dementia
(21:11) - Financial impacts of long-term care
(25:41) - Long-term care insurance pros and cons
(27:51) - Medicaid planning and trust strategies
(30:56) - VA benefits for veterans’ long-term care
(33:43) - Why trusts matter more than wills
(38:23) - How to connect with Aaron
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.
Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Apr 30, 2025 • 46min
Elliot Kallen — Turning Grief Into Purpose: How Elliot Kallen is Combating Teen Suicide
Elliot Kallen is a financial advisor, entrepreneur, and founder of A Brighter Day, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting teens struggling with depression and preventing suicide. After a successful career building Prosperity Financial Group, Elliot turned personal tragedy into action, combining his passion for business, philanthropy, and mental health advocacy.
This week, I talk with Elliot about finding purpose through profound personal loss. After losing his son to suicide, Elliot founded A Brighter Day. We discuss the painful journey from grief to action, the importance of emotional connection, and how loss reshapes both personal and professional life. Elliot shares how helping others has become a central part of his healing, and we explore the critical role empathy and mindful communication play—not just in counseling, but in parenting, advising, and living well.
In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:05) - Meet Elliot Kallen
(04:11) - Growing up and financial lessons
(06:58) - Wealth vs richness
(08:58) - From accounting to entrepreneurship
(11:01) - Losing a child and founding A Brighter Day
(20:18) - How to effectively communicate with teens
(23:10) - Understanding teen depression
(24:10) - Balancing personal grief and professional life
(27:57) - How loss affects your work
(33:19) - Coping with deep loss
(35:25) - What "not" to say to people who are grieving
(38:14) - Giving yourself permission to grieve
(43:38) - How to connect with Elliot
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money.
Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Apr 23, 2025 • 40min
Kelli Harding — The Science of Kindness: The Overlooked Ingredient in Health and Wellbeing with Kelli Harding
Kelli Harding, MD, MPH, aims to make the world a kinder and healthier place for all. An expert in psychiatry, mind-body medicine, and public health, she teaches at Columbia University in New York City. She’s also the author of The Rabbit Effect: Live Longer, Happier, and Healthier with the Groundbreaking Science of Kindness. Dr. Harding has appeared on media and news outlets such as Today, Good Morning America, BBC, The New York Times, and many more. In 2023, she co-founded Our Kind of Club, a global community that promotes positive social connections with the science of kindness.This week, I talk with Kelli about the groundbreaking science linking kindness and connection to our overall wellbeing. We unpack how our relationships, work environments, and even simple acts of compassion have tangible health benefits. From childhood lessons in resilience to practical ways to bring more connection into our daily lives, Dr. Harding offers a powerful reminder: investing in people is investing in health. Whether you’re managing stress, rethinking success, or simply seeking more joy, this conversation is a warm and wise guide forward.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:14) - Meet Kelli Harding
(03:00) - Lessons from childhood and learning to adapt
(04:40) - Choosing experiences over things
(07:00) - The impact of social connections on health
(08:07) - The rabbit study and kindness in science
(11:49) - How social connection affects health
(17:16) - The power of purpose and meaning
(18:57) - The ripple effect of kindness
(21:47) - Happiness as a predictor of success
(24:10) - Kindness in the workplace
(27:15) - Loneliness, meals, and social health
(34:43) - Our Kind of Club
(37:28) - Final thoughts and reflections
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Apr 16, 2025 • 38min
Elizabeth Husserl — The Power of Enough: Redefining What It Means to Be Wealthy with Elizabeth Husserl
Elizabeth Husserl is a registered investment advisor representative, financial advisor, and cofounder of Peak360 Wealth Management, a boutique wealth planning firm. She holds a BS in economics from Tulane University and an MA in East-West psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies, where she has also taught as an adjunct professor. Her experience spans nonprofit work throughout the Americas, and she is a highly sought-after speaker, having led workshops at major tech companies, including Airbnb, Unity, and Google.In this episode of Mindful Money, I talk with Elizabeth about her book, The Power of Enough, and the deeper meaning of wealth. We unpack why financial stability is only one slice of a fulfilling life, how to break money’s emotional grip, and why self-worth should never be tied to net worth. Elizabeth shares practical tools like the “wealth mandala” and the “conversation with money” to help people design lives rooted in meaning and agency. If you’ve ever felt like money controls too much of your mind and heart, this conversation will help you find your way back.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:27) - Meet Elizabeth Husserl
(03:26) - Elizabeth’s path: economics meets psychology
(05:26) - Elizabeth’s book and why she wrote it
(07:28) - Understanding the core difference between money and wealth
(10:57) - How money became a measure of self-worth
(12:48) - Scarcity, abundance, and the search for satiation
(14:41) - The wealth mandala
(19:56) - The empty chair exercise
(24:21) - 12 human needs that shape our fulfillment
(30:23) - Practical exercises for financial healing
(32:42) - Redefining wealth and money
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Apr 9, 2025 • 42min
Sonya Lutter — The Intersection of Love and Money with Sonya Lutter
Sonya Lutter is the Director of Financial Health and Wellness at Texas Tech Univeristy School of Financial Planning. She leads curriculum and continuing education in the areas of financial psychology, financial therapy, and financial behavior. Sonya is also the owner of ENLITE.world, a research and training consultancy firm for financial planners and therapists.In this episode of Mindful Money, I talk with Sonya about how our earliest experiences with money shape our relationships. We unpack money scripts, financial behaviors, and why communication—especially early on—is essential to long-term satisfaction. Sonya shares research-backed insights on joint accounts, premarital money conversations, and why some couples never talk about finances at all. We also dive into her book Love & Money: which offers practical exercises to help couples navigate finances with empathy, clarity, and connection. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone who wants to strengthen their relationship through financial wellness.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:14) - Meet Sonya Lutter
(03:15) - Sonya’s upbringing and early experiences with money
(09:03) - Sonya’s early career in financial planning
(10:52) - Statistics for money conflicts in relationships
(12:52) - Shared finances and relationship satisfaction
(17:14) - Financial therapy and Sonya’s book
(22:46) - Understanding money scripts
(25:11) - Advice for financial advisors
(33:20) - Improving couples’ financial conversations
(37:34) - Pitfalls of financial disengagement
(39:26) - Personal reflections and final thoughts
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Apr 2, 2025 • 47min
Melissa Osborne — The Hidden Cost of Social Mobility with Melissa Osborne
Melissa Osborne is an Associate Professor of Sociology at Western Washington University and an education and organizational consultant. Her primary research centers on social mobility, inequality, and the role that organizations play in shaping individuals’ pathways and experiences. In this episode, I talk with Melissa about her powerful book, Polished: College, Class, and the Burdens of Social Mobility. Melissa shares her own journey from rural Oregon to academia and explores how first-generation, low-income students face deep identity shifts when entering elite colleges. We dig into the emotional and cultural challenges of upward mobility, the unseen pressures of fitting in, and the role institutions play in reshaping individuals. It’s a deeply personal, eye-opening conversation about how money, class, and identity collide on the path to opportunity—and what we can do to better support that journey.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:22) - Meet Melissa Osborne
(02:57) - Growing up in a working-class household
(04:51) - Lessons on money and prioritization
(06:41) - Melissa’s journey to higher education
(12:27) - The impact of mentorship and scholarships
(14:26) - Challenges of social mobility in higher education
(16:50) - What it means to be “polished”
(18:45) - Feeling trapped between two worlds
(23:46) - When class change feels like betrayal
(26:57) - Economic and social capital in education
(30:37) - Cultural capital and belonging
(34:34) - The unspoken cost of social mobility
(40:16) - Advice for families and institutions
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Mar 26, 2025 • 40min
Alexandra Hudson — The Lost Art of Civility with Alexandra Hudson
Alexandra Hudson is a writer, popular speaker, and the founder of Civic Renaissance, a publication and intellectual community dedicated to beauty, goodness, and truth. She was named the 2020 Novak Journalism Fellow, and contributes to Fox News, CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, TIME Magazine, POLITICO Magazine, and Newsweek. She earned a master's degree in public policy at the London School of Economics as a Rotary Scholar, and is an adjunct professor at the Indiana University Lilly School of Philanthropy. She is also the creator of a series for The Teaching Company called Storytelling and The Human Condition, and author of the bestselling book, The Soul of Civility: Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves.In this episode of Mindful Money, I talk with Alexandra about the urgent need for deeper human connection in an increasingly polarized world. We explore how civility differs from politeness, why true respect is essential for a flourishing society, and how our culture’s overreliance on politics has crowded out faith, family, and friendship. Alexandra shares stories from her upbringing, her intellectual journey, and how becoming a parent reshaped her priorities. This conversation is a call to slow down, get curious, and rediscover the beauty of engaging with others—especially those we disagree with.In this episode:
(00:00) – Intro
(01:04) – Meet Alexandra Hudson
(03:47) – Growing up with entrepreneurial parents
(05:41) – The influence of Alexandra’s mother
(09:25) – Philosophical foundations and education
(11:27) – The problem civility solves
(13:44) – Instrumentalizing others and human dignity
(19:08) – Defining civility
(20:34) – The essence of civility
(21:22) – The dangers of polarization
(24:48) – The crisis of misplaced meaning
(28:31) – The power of curiosity
(31:25) – The importance of digital detox
(34:28) – Balancing work and family
(37:24) – How to connect with Alexandra
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Mar 19, 2025 • 39min
Jennifer Li — The Life-Changing Power of Financial Planning with Jennifer Li
Jennifer Li is a certified financial planner, a licensed enrolled agent, and a chartered advisor of philanthropy. She's the Director of Financial Planning at EP Wealth, where she leads a team of over 30 financial planners as they work with individuals and families to navigate the goals and complexities of their unique financial situation.In this episode, I talk with Jennifer about the transformative power of financial literacy. Jennifer shares her journey from a scarcity mindset to financial confidence and explains why planning is more than just numbers—it’s about clarity, control, and peace of mind. We discuss the biggest money mistakes people make, how financial planning gives you control of your future, and simple strategies to take charge of your finances today. If you’ve ever felt uncertain about money, this episode will give you the tools to move forward with confidence.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(03:22) - What Jennifer learned about money growing up
(07:05) - Jennifer's career journey: from music to finance
(13:40) - The Power of financial planning
(17:17) - Navigating financial uncertainty
(19:58) - Adapting financial plans to life changes
(22:51) - Simplifying your financial life
(24:52) - The emotional benefits of financial planning
(26:17) - When to seek professional financial advice
(30:24) - EP Wealth's charitable initiatives
(34:42) - Key financial planning strategies
(36:20) - Final thoughts
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Mar 12, 2025 • 39min
Dr. Lorraine Besser — The Missing Piece of a Fulfilling Life with Dr. Lorraine Besser
Lorraine Besser, PhD, is a professor of philosophy at Middlebury College, who specializes in the philosophy and psychology of the good life and teaches popular courses for undergraduates on happiness, well-being, and ethics. She is the author of two academic books, The Philosophy of Happiness: An Interdisciplinary Introduction, and Eudaimonic Ethics: The Philosophy and Psychology of Living Well, and dozens of professional journal articles on moral psychology. In this episode, I talk with Lorraine about her book, The Art of Interesting, and why happiness and meaning aren’t the only paths to a good life. She introduces the concept of psychological richness—how novelty, challenge, and curiosity can transform our daily experiences. We discuss the power of stepping outside our comfort zones, embracing unexpected opportunities, and cultivating a mindset that seeks engagement over mere contentment. If you’ve ever wondered how to make your life more interesting, this conversation will give you fresh insights and practical ways to start living with more curiosity and depth.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:08) - Meet Lorraine Besser
(03:38) - Childhood lessons about money and entrepreneurship
(07:19) - The concept of psychological richness
(14:07) - Markers of psychological richness
(17:49) - What is a psychologically rich experience?
(24:15) - The psychological impact of social media and "busyness" Culture
(27:16) - Investing in experiences
(29:32) - Practical tips for psychological richness
(32:57) - Real-world shopping vs online shopping
(34:58) - Final thoughts and takeaways
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.

Feb 26, 2025 • 34min
Navigating Politics and Portfolios: Separating Financial Decisions from Election Fears
In this episode of Mindful Money, we break down the emotional reactions to elections and why we should separate politics from our portfolios. As election-driven fear and speculation rise, it’s important to understand why making investment decisions based on political headlines is a mistake. Markets react to policies, not personalities, and long-term financial success requires discipline, diversification, and patience. In this episode, we’ll explore both potential risks—like tariffs, inflation, and debt—and possible benefits, such as business growth incentives and deregulation. No single election will make or break your financial future, but your mindset and strategy will.In this episode:
(00:00) - Intro
(01:06) - Separating politics from portfolios
(04:26) - Five potential negatives of Trump's economic policies
(14:28) - Five potential positives of Trump's economic policies
(29:32) - Investment strategy and final thoughts
Get full show notes and links at https://mindful.money. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindfulMoney.