
Mad in America: Rethinking Mental Health
Welcome to the Mad in America podcast, a weekly discussion that searches for the truth about psychiatric prescription drugs and mental health care worldwide.
Hosted by James Moore, this podcast is part of Mad in America’s mission to serve as a catalyst for rethinking psychiatric care. We believe that the current drug-based paradigm of care has failed our society and that scientific research, as well as the lived experience of those who have been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder, calls for profound change.
On the podcast we have interviews with experts and those with lived experience of the psychiatric system. Thank you for joining us as we discuss the many issues around rethinking psychiatric care around the world.
For more information visit madinamerica.com
To contact us email podcasts@madinamerica.com
Latest episodes

Nov 20, 2019 • 43min
Celia Brown - On Human Rights and Surviving Race
This week on MIA Radio, MIA Correspondent Leah Harris interviews Celia Brown. Celia is a psychiatric survivor and a prominent leader in the movement for human rights in mental health. She is the current Board President of MindFreedom International, a nonprofit organization uniting 100 sponsor and affiliate grassroots groups with thousands of individual members to win human rights and alternatives for people labelled mentally ill. Please Support Us: Our work is made possible by the generous support of our readers. To make a donation please visit this page. Thank you. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/

Nov 18, 2019 • 54min
Lindsay Church – Military Mental Health – From the Brink and the Journey to Recovery
This week on MIA Radio, we interview US Navy Veteran and Co-Founder of Minority Veterans of America, Lindsay Church. Lindsay served from 2008-2012 as a Cryptologic Technician Interpretive (Linguist). During her time in the service, she attended language school at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA where she learned Persian-Farsi. After spending two years at a cyber intelligence command, she left the Navy and returned home to Seattle. Upon returning home, Lindsay attended the University of Washington where she earned her BA in Near Eastern Language and Civilization and Islamic Studies and an MA in International Studies – Middle East. At the University of Washington, Lindsay co-founded the office of Student Veteran Life, where she also served as the University Liaison for the Student Veterans of AmericaChapter there. In 2017, Lindsay started the Minority Veterans of America to ensure there is a community of support around the underrepresented veterans so that we may see the true diversity of the U.S. military reflected in our veteran communities. We discuss: How Lindsay was enlisted in 2008 under “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” and served all but three months of her time in the Navy under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. That Lindsay is a third-generation Navy veteran with many family members also serving. How during her Navy career she had multiple health issues arising from an inverted sternum, but a surgical procedure was botched and she experienced multiple complications, spending 5 days in ICU with a collapsed lung. How within 18 months of enlisting she had been prescribed 16 different medications including painkillers, antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs. How she then had to endure a number of further surgeries but managed to complete language school in spite of the surgeries and complications. Lindsay recalls being amazed that she is alive considering the cocktail of meds she was prescribed. How she came to be stuck for six months at a medical barracks in San Diego. That Lindsay got to a point in 2010 where she felt that she couldn’t go on. That she was being transitioned between Klonopin, Effexor, Valium and Zoloft almost every month which led to intense suicidal thoughts and how she considered jumping from a fifth-floor window. That she recalls asking for psychological support but instead only received more psychiatric drugs. How Lindsay made the decision in 2010 to get off the antidepressants and then in 2011 came off the opioids and has refused painkillers since, finally in 2012 she came off the anti-anxiety drugs. Lindsay says that it hurts to have realized that suicidal thoughts occurred during times of being switched between psychiatric medications, and changes her way of viewing past events in her life. How Lindsay notes that it is very easy to get referred into psychiatry and onto the drugs but very difficult to find appropriate psychological support. That Lindsay moved back to Seattle after leaving the Navy in 2012 and is thankful her mom is a veteran, as she helped her navigate the VA. How Lindsay’s experiences both with the military medical system but also witnessing pervasive misogyny, racism and homophobia in the American Legion, led her to resign her position and to co-found the Minority Veterans of America. How she found that female veterans are 2.2 times more likely to die by suicide than their civilian counterparts and LGBTQ veterans are 2 times more likely to die by suicide than their civilian counterparts. That she now works with people of color, women, LGBTQ and religious and non-religious minorities, many of whom are disenfranchised from the veteran community, so the goal is to bring people into a supportive community to break the isolation, because isolation is a killer. How important social engagement is to address the isolation felt by minority veteran communities. That as regards herself, she is working on reaching the person that she was five years ago when she didn’t think that she belonged or that her story was unique, or even worthy of even being told. That if readers want to know more they can visit MinorityVets.org which is a non-profit. How she feels that we don’t have another three to five years to address the suicide epidemic amongst the veteran community, Congressional action is needed now. Please Support Us: Our work is made possible by the generous support of our readers. To make a donation please visit this page. Thank you. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/

Oct 26, 2019 • 48min
Dorothy Dundas - Survivorship, Resistance, and Connection
This week on MIA Radio, MIA Correspondent Leah Harris interviews psychiatric survivor Dorothy Dundas. Dorothy is an activist, a mother, a mentor, and an incredible supporter of the activists in all of our movement-building work, going back several decades. Relevant Links: On Our Own by Judi Chamberlin: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/5106590-on-our-own Dorothy Dundas author page at Mad in America: https://www.madinamerica.com/author/dorothydundas/ Image of Dorothy's "Behind Locked Doors" poster: https://www.madinamerica.com/2014/05/behind-locked-doors/ To contact Dorothy and/or to order a "Behind Locked Doors" poster: https://www.facebook.com/dorothywdundas Please Support Us: Our work is made possible by the generous support of our readers. To make a donation please visit this page. Thank you. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/

Oct 18, 2019 • 1h
Joseph Gone - When Healing Looks Like Justice
Joseph Gone is a professor of both Anthropology and Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard University. He is a clinical and community psychologist by training, and he conducts participatory research projects with community partners in Native American communities. His projects aim to rethink traditional mental health practices and incorporate Indigenous-healing practices. He has published over seventy-five articles on his work. His work includes both the critical analysis of psychological theories and concepts, such as indigenous historical trauma, as well as original research on new mental health programs such as the Blackfeet Culture Camp for the treatment of addiction. As an undergraduate, he became interested in psychology because the field approaches the question of human experience from so many diverse vantage points -- taking up questions from the workings of the brain to what it means to be human. His love for ideas and his desire to contribute to the American Indian communities (as a member of Aaniiih-Gros Ventre tribal nation) led him to get a doctorate in clinical psychology. However, his experience is not simply that of a clinical psychologist or psychotherapist who addresses mental health at the individual level -- because sometimes, he explains, the remedies that help people “look less like healing and more like justice.”

Oct 5, 2019 • 1h 5min
Steven C Hayes - A Liberated Mind
This week on MIA Radio, we interview Professor of Psychology Dr. Steven C. Hayes. Dr. Hayes is Nevada Foundation Professor in the Behavior Analysis program at the Department of Psychology at the University of Nevada. An author of 45 books and over 625 scientific articles, his career has focused on an analysis of the nature of human language and cognition and the application of this to the understanding and alleviation of human suffering. He is the developer of Relational Frame Theory, an account of human higher cognition, and has guided its extension to Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), a popular evidence-based form of psychotherapy that uses mindfulness, acceptance, and values-based methods. Dr. Hayes has been President of several scientific and professional societies including the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapy, and the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science. He was the first Secretary-Treasurer of the Association for Psychological Science, which he helped form and has served a 5-year term on the National Advisory Council for Drug Abuse in the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Hayes received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapy and was recently named as a Fellow in the American Association for the Advancement of Science. In this interview we talk about his recently released book, A Liberated Mind: How to Pivot Toward What Matters, which uses the principles of acceptance and commitment therapy to help readers overcome negative thoughts and feelings, turn pain into purpose, and build a meaningful life. We discuss: What led Steven to his interest in psychology and, in particular, behavioral science. That his keen interest was to mix an understanding of human experience with analytical science. How he came to be standing on stage in Nevada at a 2016 TEDx talk, relating his experiences of panic disorder and ‘hitting bottom’. How Steven has dedicated his life to helping people understand how they can be their whole selves while dealing with their problems and distress. How his book ‘A Liberated Mind’ was in part based on his own experiences but also presents the voluminous research that underlies Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). That ACT is based on the psychological flexibility model and involved pulling at the threads of cognition and language to understand the fundamentals. How ACT is a combination of acceptance and mindfulness processes and commitment/behaviour changes, referred to in the book as ‘pivots’ and ‘turning towards’. That ACT allows us to be present with our difficulties in a way that we can learn from distress without becoming entangled. That the book defines six basic processes: defusion, self, acceptance, presence, values and action. How it is important not to believe that we need ‘fixing’ before we can move on with our lives. That acceptance is often seen as giving up or tolerance but is better viewed as the response to receiving a gift. How acceptance opens us up to the validity of our experiences and can help to achieve a healthy distance from distressing experiences. How pain, judgement and comparison impact our lives. That reliance on medications can mean that we become numb to experiences that we could learn from if we turned or pivoted towards them. That the guide to happiness is hidden within our misery. Relevant links: Steven C Hayes The Liberated Mind: How to Pivot Toward What Matters TEDx Nevada – Psychological flexibility: How love turns pain into purpose Acceptance and commitment therapy and contextual behavioral science: examining the progress of a distinctive model of behavioral and cognitive therapy © Mad in America 2019

Oct 4, 2019 • 57min
Jenny Freeman - Climate Change, Mental Health and Collective Action
Jennifer Freeman is a marriage and family therapist and an Expressive Arts Therapist. Since 2017, she has been researching narratives centered on how humans are facing climate change and responding to these challenging times of social impoverishment, ecological degradation, the Anthropocene, and the sixth great extinction. She has been engaged in therapeutic conversations, international community work, teaching, and professional writing for the past 30 years based on narrative approaches. She is the co-author of the book Playful Approaches to Serious Problemsalong with David Epston and Dean Lobovits. © Mad in America 2019

Oct 2, 2019 • 24min
IIPDW - Carina Håkansson and John Read
This week on MIA Radio we turn our attention to psychiatric drug withdrawal and in particular the work of the International Institute for Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal. The Institute recently held a network meeting in Gothenburg, Sweden, where 40 leading experts from around the world came together to discuss the issues of dependence, withdrawal and iatrogenic harm relating to psychiatric drugs. The meeting participants included both professionals and those with lived experience. We chat with IIPDW founder Carina Håkansson and IIPDW Board Member Professor John Read. Following the meeting, the IIPDW released the following Press Release. INTERNATIONAL EXPERTS CALL FOR SERVICES TO SUPPORT MILLIONS TRYING TO COME OFF PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS Millions of people around the world are currently trying to come off psychiatric drugs but finding it extremely difficult because of withdrawal effects which are often severe and persistent, and because there is so little support available to come off the drugs slowly and safely. The 40 international experts attending this weekend’s meeting (end of September 2019) of the International Institute for Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal (www.iipdw.org) voted to endorse the recommendations of the recent Public Health England [PHE] review of ‘Dependence and withdrawal associated with prescribed medicines’ and pledged to try to implement them in the 15 countries they are from, and beyond. These include: Enhancing clinical guidance and the likelihood it will be followed. Improving information for patients and carers on prescribed medicines, and increasing informed choice and shared decision-making between clinicians and patients. Improving the support available from the healthcare system for patients experiencing dependence on, or withdrawal from, prescribed medicines. Further research on the prevention and treatment of dependence on, and withdrawal from, prescribed medicines. Participants agreed that besides antidepressants and benzodiazepines other psychoactive drugs, e.g. antipsychotics, should be included. They also agreed with PHE that ‘the goal is to make sure that our healthcare system builds awareness and enhanced decision-making for better patient treatment and support. These recommendations are just the beginning. All parts of the healthcare system and the general population will need to engage with this complex problem and work together to find solutions’. The meeting decided to hold a large international conference in Iceland in 2020. The meeting organiser, Dr Carina Håkansson (Psychotherapist, Sweden), commented: ‘All our hopes were exceeded. So many plans, local and international, emerged from this gathering of inspirational experts and activists. The time for change on this issue has clearly arrived’ carina@utvidgaderum.se Participants commented: ‘Psychiatric drugs destroyed 10 years of my life. I am so happy that we are finally addressing this issue of how to get off these drugs, which effects literally millions of people.’ Olga Runciman, Denmark (Psychologist, IIPDW Board Member) +45 27851003, orunciman@gmail.com ‘Doctors should be able to prescribe the tapering medication strips I demonstrated at the meeting, which are required to stop safely. This is crucially important’. Dr Peter Groot, Netherlands (UMC University Hospital, Utrecht) +31 622290233 p.c.groot@ziggo.nl ‘As an NHS Psychiatrist, I am aware how many lives are ruined by over-medication. We need to recognise that there are alternatives which are more powerful and less harmful.’ Dr Rex Haigh, UK (Berkshire) +44 7768 546983 rex.haigh@gmail.com ‘The strong commitment all weekend, from researchers, clinicians and people with experience of psychiatric drugs was inspiring. The denying and minimizing of psychiatry and the drug companies will no longer prevail’. Professor John Read, UK (University of East London, IIPDW Board Member) +44 7944 853 783 john@uel.ac.uk “I return to Brazil with a willingness to help the process of psychiatric reform in my country vigorously address the damage that the alliance between psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry has done to our population.” Professor Fernando Freitas (FIOCRUZ, Member of IIPDW Faculty) + 55 21 2260 9200 ffreitas@ensp.fiocruz.br © Mad in America 2019

Sep 28, 2019 • 49min
Peter Kinderman - Why We Need a Revolution in Mental Health Care
This week on MIA Radio, we chat with Professor Peter Kinderman. Peter is Professor of Clinical Psychology at the University of Liverpool, honorary Consultant Clinical Psychologist with Mersey Care NHS Trust and Clinical Advisor for Public Health England, UK. He was 2016-2017 President of the British Psychological Society (BPS) and twice chair of the BPS Division of Clinical Psychology. His research activity and clinical work concentrate on serious and enduring mental health problems, as well as on how psychological science can assist public policy in health and social care. His previous books include A Prescription for Psychiatry: Why We Need a Whole New Approach to Mental Health and Wellbeing, released in 2013. In this interview, we discuss Peter’s new book, A Manifesto for Mental Health, Why We Need a Revolution in Mental Health Care, which presents a radically new and distinctive outlook that critically examines the dominant ‘disease-model’ of mental health care. The book highlights persuasive evidence that our mental health and wellbeing depend largely on the society in which we live, on the things happen to us, and on how we learn to make sense of and respond to those events. Peter proposes a rejection of invalid diagnostic labels, practical help rather than medication, and a recognition that distress is usually an understandable human response to life’s challenges. We discuss: What led Peter to his interest in psychology, having initially been interested in physics and philosophy. How his academic and clinical work have influenced each other throughout his career. Why it is important to challenge mainstream mental health messages, not just as an academic exercise but also for the good of society. That it is pretty clear that we currently have a very poor system for responding to emotional distress. How we are not offering real-world help for real-world problems. That it is vital for us to offer people an alternative framework of understanding to allow them to decide for themselves how best to frame and therefore respond to difficulty. That Peter has observed changes in language that are helping to support public realisation that ‘mental illness’ is an idea or theory rather than undeniable fact. How a psychosocially-based mental health response might work. That Peter’s would like to see psychiatrists treating children to be employed by the authority also in charge of education provision. How our hierarchical health system gives doctors enormous power. That the Nordic countries have evolved a more socially-integrated and community-based approach, which better integrates health and social care. How those that are critical of the illness model are sometimes viewed as ‘deniers of real experiences’, but that this is a mischaracterisation because it is more about understanding those experiences in a different way or using a different framework. Relevant links: A Manifesto for Mental Health – Why We Need a Revolution in Mental Health Care A Prescription for Psychiatry – Why We Need a Whole New Approach to Mental Health and Wellbeing Professor Peter Kinderman, University of Liverpool, talks about a manifesto for mental health at the DECP Annual Conference 2016 Please support Mad in America - Donate now © Mad in America 2019

Sep 23, 2019 • 38min
Zhiying Ma - Recuperating the Social Person in China
On MIA Radio, we interview Anthropologist Zhiying Ma, who explores mental health care in China, including tensions between Western psychiatry and socially-oriented local frameworks. Zhiying Ma is a cultural and medical anthropologist and disability studies scholar whose work explores the experiences and rights of those receiving mental health services in China. Her current book project, Intimate Institutions: Governance and Care Under the Mental Health Legal Reform in Contemporary China, investigates how the Chinese state has placed paternalistic responsibilities on families through their role in the care of those diagnosed with serious mental illnesses, in part through the practice of involuntary hospitalization. Ma came to earn a Ph.D. in Anthropology after questioning psychology’s overemphasis on decontextualized human behavior while majoring in the subject as an undergraduate. She found that anthropology offered the more humanistic and socially oriented lens she was looking for, and this perspective informs her current work. Ma collaborates with psychiatrists, social workers, human rights activists, lawmakers, families, and those with lived experience to not only conduct research but also to take part in China’s ongoing mental health policy discussions and push for community-based, socially inclusive care that is not simply “care as usual.” Please support Mad in America - Donate now

Sep 14, 2019 • 42min
Ben Furman - Understanding and Dealing With Adolescent Rage
On MIA Radio this week, in the second of a number of podcasts focused on parenting issues, we interview Ben Furman MD. Ben is a Finnish psychiatrist, psychotherapist and internationally renowned teacher of the Solution-Focused approach to preventing and treating mental health problems in both children and adults. His numerous books have been translated into over 20 languages. Relevant Links Helping Children With Angry Outbursts The Kid Skills App Please donate If you are enjoying the Mad in America podcast, please consider donating to help us continue to provide free content. Thank you. https://www.madinamerica.com/donate/ © Mad in America 2019